Reform donations scandal: the final blow for Farage? – The Latest

0:00This is The Guardian. Now, qualified shippers get a real dedicated person to get used set up and switched over for free. So when peak season hits, you're ready to go. Switch today at shipstation.com, Code Audio. Hi, it's Lucy here. Just before we start, Peter Walker, our wonderful senior political correspondent was recording right from the center of Reform UK's party conference. So there's a bit more hubbub and background noise than usual, but bear with us and we hope you enjoy the episode.

1:00The kind of willestime is the voters don't care until they suddenly do. There's this mysterious moment when we get cut through. I was thrilled to be able to give up the town for the calls that you had commissioned. That was great. And the third hole worked. If I could effectively do this, please action. Someone close to the next point which rested, we've charged. That would be a big thing. Let me be clear. The party has done nothing wrong. Take a no illegal money. From the Guardians today in focus, this is the latest with me, Lucy Hath. So the night before the 2026 Reform UK party conference, a major investigation dropped involving an undercover reporter exposing malpractice related to polling and overseas donations. Peter Walker, you are a senior political correspondent. You are at Reform Party conference where you appear to be in the content creator studios. So are you excited about your new career as an influencer?

2:03Now, officially a content creator, yeah. Peter, let's start with this investigation because it's quite complex. What are the key findings? This was one that was done by a journalist who collect, called Fubatin, who shared the footage with Channel 4 News. He did their own checks and then thought after. And it's basically they went undercover and tried to tempt Reform UK to doing two things. One of which was to commission polling, which was then given to newspapers and not filled has been coming from Reform UK. This is calling favourable part of it. Right. Which took place. And this verbatim group were posing as the British based Sunday, the wealthy, the US, business person who was sympathetic to the party. They paid for it calling about 30,000 pounds. So we're going to run this 18k for us now. And then I saw that maybe somebody I could think of who they could send in and voice to. Well, that would just be a suggestion or not.

3:05It's not a kind of inner rating and being party-bondribution. They do it. But then the more serious stuff is that the person posing as the British based Sun and then an active posing as the US businessman. And he'll talk with some senior people in the forum, including Nigel Farad, about what appears to be the idea of giving a donation to them to be also from the US business channels through with British based Sun, which would be getting round bans on foreign donations in a way that the former Head of Electrical Commission would potentially break the law. Dad will send the money to me and then as soon as that's done, all those conversations are had, then the money's available. Thank you. So no, we... Okay, so that's all pretty shocking stuff. And in what ways could this potentially be breaking electoral rules? But at the moment we don't know, and it's important to point out that reform

4:05are saying that there is no evidence that they broke rules, even though Dan Jukes and James Orr, who... Dan Jukes, it's not a Farad, it's long time right now, and then James Orr, it's his Cambridge University academic who's head of policy for reform and care. They've both lost their posts that were remains to be seen if they might come back. And reformer basically saying that it could be contrappment and they're insisting that they've done nothing wrong. At least they didn't look into it. It's a tricky one, because this is quite a complicated story to explain. And thus it's quite complicated for voters and people who are not that interested in politics to make a grasp of. But if potentially we have to say we have no idea if it's going to take place, if the lease investigate, attention even arrests or charges, anyone connected to reformer becomes a lot more serious. It certainly does. And we find with the various stories about reforms, finances that we've seen in the last few weeks and months, we're getting quite used to quite techy interviews with Nigel Farage,

5:07defending the various ways that his party has received money. We have of course the Christopher Harbonne gift before he became an MP that was revealed by our Anna Isaac of that gift of 5 million pounds. The news that posh George, as he was known George, called the convicted fraudster that money was donated to the party via his mother. I mean these things combined with this slightly more complex investigation do show a pattern of how reform is operating that clearly is of some concern. There's various things going on as a startup in the Sergent Party, which reformed the place to live. It's quite difficult to raise the money in the truth, like drink the mould. And they are because of the way UK parties are funded, very real art in a small lump of very rich people. And in terms of the electoral commission, it is quite tricky the electoral commission have said in this case is at the police first. I think the more important thing for reforming the case is just whether this cuts through to the public.

6:09There is some evidence that the 5 million pound gift, which Nigel Farage has been investigated over wet initiative declared it to Parliament. That's quite an easy thing for voters to get a grasp of. Most of us, I mean I certainly have never been given 5 million pounds by a very rich friend. I think the list of them is a bit like it was with Boris Johnson with a whole party getting sleet stuff. The kind of rule of thumb is the voters don't care until they suddenly do. There's this mysterious moment where you get cut through. And I don't think we're at this point yet, but reform already have a few problems there. They've been in front, you know, they're a victim of their own success for a bit. They've been leading the polls for a long time now with Andy Burnham and Labour a bit more research, finding it more difficult. I mean the most difficult thing for them is come just for the conference. It means they can't talk about their policies, the announcements they want to talk about. It's all seen through the prism of this slightly murky news story. So it just makes their momentum that bit more difficult. Yeah, and I think also the way that Nigel Farage tries to present himself as this anti-establishment figure

7:09and what I was struck by watching the documentary is sort of quite how establishment the party appears given that their meeting in places like Clarages and these Mayfair Private Clubs, that visual might have some cut through. But let's talk about the vibe at conference where you are and the hubbub behind you. I mean obviously Farage will still be hoping to sort of reset the narrative with this conference. Previous Reform Party conference has been quite sort of aesthetically interesting affairs with kind of pyrotechnics for our kicking balloons into the crowd in 2024. Is there a sense that there's a slightly different atmosphere this year? I thought there would be. I mean but on admittedly an early sign, it feels quite similar to last year. Reform conferences previously have been basically like a US political rally with Nigel Farage as a main person. But in terms of vibe, I mean I was chatting to quite a few Reform actors yesterday when we got there.

8:13And they're quite happy and the thing that struck me is these events that happens during the week and political activists are a different crowd. So the crowd disproportionately goes tends to be older. He can take time after a week. There's quite a few young people who reform definitely do attract a core of quite committed young people. I mean as a proportion in the membership, it's probably still quite small. But there is this element of, I mean is it moving beyond the Nigel Farage cult? It's difficult to say. Yeah. And is there a sense that this is having cut through amongst that sort of core fan base? And I suppose outside of the conference hall for people who are perhaps wavering reform voters whether this is going to make a real difference to them? I think it's too early to say. And I think it would be much much more of a cut through if hypothetically we still don't go to happen. If there's a police action, then that really would make it easy to understand. It's not just murky going on in a take. It's someone close to Nigel Farage, arrested, we've charged.

9:15That would be a big thing. I think the worry for reform is that some calls to think their absolute peak polling level is about 30%ish. Which might be just about enough to win an election. I mean, Keir Starmer won a massive landslide on 33%. But there is a sense this needs to be doubling down on their core vote. All of the policy announcements and recent words a month have been very heavily migration based, authoritarian based, this idea of Nigel Farage would declare a state of emergency if he took off his. This is tough, which very much appeals to the state of here. So when election day also has to attempt maybe five reading 10% of other voters, most likely conservative voters, over to them. And at the moment, it's hard to see what that's referring is. But these conflicts are starting off, so maybe there will be some mainstream stuff coming. Yeah, and also this pledge from Farage that reform was professionalising, that it was building its operations and turning less of a fringe party into a mainstream, properly run political party.

10:19And again, this latest story kind of raises serious questions about whether that has been effective. Peter, just moving forward, I mean, you mentioned the two men at the heart of this latest investigation, James Aure and Dan Jukes. Dan Jukes has been at Farage's side for so many years. There's some questions about the extent to which they are suspended or whether they'll come back. But basically what's next and what can we expect from both the electoral commission and the police? In terms of the status of Aure and Jukes, we don't know Leanderson, the reform party MP and Chief Witt, on the morning book has ran this morning said, basically, they're gone for good. Nigel Farage indicated not this fringe event has up with Danny Krueger, who's leading their preparations for government efforts. I actually asked him, you know, which one is it? And he said there were suspended pending investigation, which is to undertake, they might come back. Okay. I don't know if that's just confusion or a split. In terms of what comes next, the electoral commission do have powers to ask the police to order investigations,

11:24but they're leaving this order to the Met Police for now. And as we know from previous cases, the Met Police do not work quickly, so I don't expect an answer soon. But this is a shadow hanging over the conference. And he reforms big things. They have to be ready for election whenever it takes place. And in terms of key personnel, this is quite a significant thing. Jukes is extremely close to Farage. We've used it for years as a kind of voice of Farage, a press spokesperson, you know, to ask him what Farage is up to. But they're personally very close. It's a bit like the relationship with George Cockroach. Jukes is like a kind of so-and-so son almost. And James Orr is his very little no figure. People in reforms say he's instrumental in devising their policy pattern. And they've been really pleased how well policy maps have made recent gone down, and they say that's bad to war. So having them after the picture, even for three months, is quite a big blow. Yeah, big blow. Well, your set to have a very, very interesting weekend. So yeah. Thank you so much for making time for us.

12:25Thank you. That's it for today. My huge thanks again to Peter Walker, the Guardian Senior Political Correspondent. You can keep up with his reporting. And our coverage of Reform UK's party conference this weekend over at TheGuardian.com. And before I go, the Guardian's chart-topping broadcast Black Box hosted by Michael Safi is back for a second series. The new season will explore people's relationships with AI chat bots and how they are quietly reshaping lives. All six episodes are out now. It's an incredible series. Search Black Box, the chat bot, wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for listening to this episode of The Latest. Today I'm focused with you as usual on Monday morning. The latest will be back on Monday night. Have a lovely weekend. This episode was produced by Angus Neal. The senior producer was Ran Ram Gobin. The executive producer was Zoe Hitch and it was presented by me Lucy Hoff. I felt like I was cheating. It was an overwhelming feeling of guilt.

13:26The first chat GPT generation have finished their studies. Some never really started. I can't lie, I still do not feel like any of us should be getting that degree. Black Box, the chat bots, a new series from The Guardian Investigates about the strange things happening between AI and us. The whole series is out right now. Search for Black Box, wherever you get your podcasts. This is The Guardian. 500 orders a month was manageable. Embrace Intelligent Order fulfillment with shipstation. The only platform combining order management, warehouse workflows, inventory, returns, and analytics in one place. What used to take five separate tools shipstation does in one. Automate fulfillment and rate shopping to ship up to 15 times more with up to 90% savings. shipstation.com and use code audio to try shipstation free for 60 days.

14:31As a small business owner, you're the CEO, the marketing team, and the customer service rep all at once. I was recently talking to a shop owner who told me their worst nightmare isn't a slow day, it's the vanishing act. It's that moment your inches away from a deadline and the Wi-Fi just disappears. We've all felt that pit in our stomach when the connection flares up right when it matters most. The business is only as strong as your connection. AT&T Business is the reliable provider built for that exact brand of hustle. So you can stay focused on the work that builds your legacy. Powered by AT&T Business. Built to work. Get AT&T Business at business. ATT.com. You're either all in on this model or maybe you're building with another name. Are there speed or is it security? Or your AWS AI? Don't pick a side. Pick a more. AWS AI is how.