RESPECT ON HIS NAME: Is Matas Buzelis Being Disrespected? | CHGO Bulls Podcast

0:00What up y'all C H G O bulls now on your airways and your eyeballs and your ears as well. Thank y'all for joining us and hanging out with us y'all. We are coming at you live from our C H G O X Finity Loss in downtown Chicago and we are presented about that 365. We're winning. We've been paying down low to about three cents five that and use the code C H G O 365. Win. You sign. Oh big Dave. Hi. What's up? See y'all man. Y'all look great. They say hanging out with us man. This awesome individual over here is Will the goat a godly but you can follow him and will got leave ladies gentlemen. Number that underscore will got leave making your life simpler for the people. Our guy on the ones in twos. Man, man, Joey C. What's going on? Gentlemen, I try and speak for myself but triple OG Lara, honestly taking the thoughts out

1:04of my brain. Man, I'm so ready for both bears and bulls this year is about to be electric. It's electric. I agree. It's going to be a time. It's going to be a time man football NFL season starts tonight. There's regular season beginning on Sunday and Carolina against the Panthers. Won't be an easy game but I'm expecting the bears to do bear stuff. I'm excited about football there Will. Quite. Oh, if I had to say it in just one word. Oh, there it is. He's red day. I think they could do some big things this year. They did. They did. Last year and we weren't expecting it. I do, you know, I feel like I always am a little concerned about like coming down off and high but I mean they're just they're going to be awesome to watch. They're going to be so much fun. Yeah, they died in man. It's incredible honestly that this goes in any sport that usually after what you just talked about, you know, you pull some some games that wrap it out of a hat. You go farther in the plus and anyone possibly thought you could go and then the whole summer or sometimes in the winter, whatever sport it is, everyone starts building them up of

2:05like how great they be, how amazing they can be. Bears is opposite man. Yeah. They're everyone's like, oh, they're going to regress. Oh, they're not that good. It's been Johnson dude like we're getting smacked around a little bit. No one sees the Ben Johnson effect coming. So I'm not really about their defense. I feel like the Lions and the Packers are still really good. Yeah, Kyler's probably better than Jay Jim McCarthy was last year. So the Vikings will be good. It's just tough division. But like, if Caleb is who we think he is and Ben Johnson is who we think he is, why not? Why not? Why not? Listen, as I told you, I cannot be the MVP. We are getting to the level of where I say you just have his Caleb playing and his Ben Johnson coaching and then I'm fine. Let's just go from that. That's the level of Andy Reed and Patrick. I'm ready. They're going to have to outscore teams, but that's what the great team is. Yeah, that's what they do. That's what that's what gives me peace. Are they playing or is he coaching? We're fine. They maybe throw if you want to throw coast and lovingly in there as the other guy I would think. Yeah, great. But regardless, ladies and gentlemen, it's exciting times ahead for both the Chicago Bears

3:09and the Chicago Bulls. Y'all, we are excited. And speaking of the Chicago Bulls, ladies and gentlemen, right before the show, will they go got me? Will they go got me? Will they go got leave? Got him, you know, how he likes to, you know, throw stuff at me before the show. Say it, hey, big day. Did you know the Chicago Bulls will be on ESPN? And I said, what? He said, yes, preseason action will be happening on ESPN for the below Chicago Bulls. Will they go got leave? That is correct. The season games were announced today, getting picked up by ESPN will be Bulls Nuggets on October 11th. And Bulls, I'm sorry, that's magic, have a look. So it's on October 11th, Bulls versus Nuggets will be on ESPN. So that'll be, you know, an interesting twist of excitement. Maybe they look really good and maybe they get picked up for some more games. Yeah. But you got to start somewhere. I think they're already at least gaining some momentum as interest.

4:11And that is again, so they'll barge been low, but that is something that has not always been the case about the team. It is not. And you know, we talked about like fun bad the last couple of years. Yeah. There's just kind of like meh, meh instead of fun bad. Now they actually could be fun bad or they could be fun frisky. And either way, I think we're winning. We're winning, sir. And it's cover that. It's always good and when it gets always fun. And we like to do those things and we haven't done a lot of that around here. But also the Bulls in addition to that mentioned earlier a few weeks ago, the Bulls have two more regular season games now on national TV against, I believe, clean Cavaliers and the Philadelphia 76ers, both of those are home games. They will be on NBA TV. So the Bulls now a total of six is in six or five. It was four originally. Yeah. So we're counting this free season. We're taking the ball. I mean, and like the NBA TV games, are they really national TV?

5:12Yes. Yes. But they're not like on the, you know, they're just they got to prove themselves. They got to prove themselves. I agree with that. And like you said, as the season goes, maybe they could add some more, maybe it's just a lot of excitement happening around the Bulls. It's pick up games all the time. Yeah. Yeah, it's a thing, man. So it's awesome. JoJo saying what I'm thinking, baby, 28 days till show time. That's right. Ladies, do you have them in 28 days until we get some preseason action happening around here? You think we're going to get to see Noah play in preseason as the believer asks? Yes. I don't know. You don't think so? They barely let them get action in some league. Fair. That's fair. Should he? Yes. Will they give it to him? I don't know. I feel like that's why he will. It's what other time are they going to have to actually think about giving him minutes? Do you think season starts in November? I think they should play. I think they should see it. But just based on how it went in summer league, I'm not expecting it. I feel like preseason will get some.

6:12I think yeah, preseason he has to. I think he has to. It for me. And this is me speaking. For me, it's almost mandatory that he has to get out there for some preseason action. And I feel about Daly and Swain as well. Those guys got to get out there because they could help your team. You know, like they are two guys who are close to helping your team. Over under 12.5 preseason minutes per game for Noah. Per game? 12.5. Under. Under. Under. Let's reduce it to 8.5. I'll stay. I'll stay. The only thing that can tip it is one game where he plays like 28 minutes. Yeah. That would tilt the scales. But I could see him getting like two shifts. Let's see how you do. Yeah. Earn that second shift in a preseason. Yeah. Eight minutes is not anything. It's not a ton. I'm saying, well, you know what? I'll give him an over because I'll say maybe 10. 10. I'll say he gets 10 minutes in that preseason. So two five minutes to insert four two and a half minutes to.

7:12But or he just like Joey sees it has a nice long with like the last game. Maybe he gets bench for three games though. Oh, man. I don't think that counts as a zero. I think that just doesn't count. So maybe that will actually help him. That's fair. That's fair. A lot of things can change, man. How about we do it this way? It seems like a lot of things. That's fair. We have a couple of games over under 50 total minutes played over under 50 total minutes played for that young man. I'm going to preseason. Preseason. Obviously, yes. Oh, man. That's a number. That is a good opportunity. I'm going to say slightly under. I'm going to go under too. Yeah. I'm going to go under too. Yeah. I'm going to go under. Yeah. What about 45 is range maybe? I'm going to say 48. Yeah. The game, the game score of Bears Panthers this weekend might be more than the amount of minutes. Noah plays all season. Oh, I guarantee I would bet everything I have on that. Let me do one more for you. Come on with it. Dalyne Swain over under 75 total minutes played in preseason.

8:12Oh. Oh, under. I might go under too. I'm going to say under. I'm going to say I want him to play, but I just don't know. Yeah. I'm going to say under. I still feel like these second half they just don't play the starters. Maybe he's in. That's what I mean. And they're still developing just as a total team period. Yeah. So there's a lot of guys who still need to see time. I think I actually know. I want to think he plays maybe he could play like that last preseason game. He could literally play like 30 or 32 minutes. Yeah. 30 or 30. Because you know, hey, we're ready to go. You know, that's a tough one. Just get through this game and then. Bro, that's a tough one, man. B daddy fish says over. He's taking the over on that one, man. All right. All right. All right. Here's my last one for you. Hit me over under 0.5 Phil Jackson statues. Oh, look at this guy. Look at this guy. You know, look at him. Look at him. I'm going to say you know what I'm saying. I said up for that young girl right there. Saguely King is how he rolls. Ladies and gents. Guess what? Phil Jackson is getting a statue. It's happening. And it's happening in Los Angeles. Los Angeles.

9:13Lakers will unveil a Phil Jackson statue April. Ninth before the game against the team. Wolves. Phil Jackson. Don't get the balls. That's just two. That's things too much. Like don't do that. Don't do that. All right. That's too petty. Don't want to do petty that hard. He coached the Lakers for five NBA titles, y'all. And seven finals appearances. He'll be the ninth member of the organization with a statue. At their home. He's going to be the ninth member of the organization. With a statue. At their home. Arena. The first question go is nine statues too much. I don't think that. You. I don't know. I feel like the bulls are very protective of the amount of jerseys they retire of. The amount of statues that they have. Sure. I feel like if some organizations don't want to be and they want to celebrate more people, I think that's fine. The bulls have kind of teared it out where it's like these are our retired jerseys numbers. These are our statue players. And then the lower tier is like the ring of honor thing.

10:13So I get why they do it that way. I don't personally have a problem with having more statues. I feel like it probably is weird timing for the bulls to unveil a Phil Jackson statue 30 years after. I mean, maybe you know, in 2031, you know, the 40 year anniversary of their first title. Okay. But I don't think it's too much for the Lakers. I think they want to celebrate their history. I think they're trying to buy some good grace with the new fan base with the new ownership. And I get why they do it. I also get why the bulls don't necessarily want to do that. Yeah. Good grace with a new fan base round, by the way. Do you see? Like I have to be honest with myself when I do inventory on this story coming out that I honestly never really occurred to me. That Phil Jackson and statue and stuff like that. But now that I think about it, this is one of like the biggest, in my opinion, one of the bigger misses in Bulls PR history of the last 20. Go on. Because of the simple fact of let's just keep it very, very simple.

11:14Okay. There is a high probability rate that Phil Jackson is and will always be the greatest coach in Chicago Bulls history. Yes. And the same way that we talk about Mike is the same way that he's an understatement. What's that? High probability is an understatement. It is. It's like 99.99. Correct. Correct. Correct. The greatest dynasty of all time. Yeah. Like there's no one will match him probably in titles in this town from a Bulls perspective. Bulls respect. And if we talk about MJ the same way we do with the reverence of 6 and 0 in this town, guess who else was 6 and 0? Woo. 6 and 0. So the fact that they haven't done that with the suspenders and a beautiful mustache or whatever. Yeah. It's kind of. It is kind of crazy. And frankly, I should go even further now. I think they should have plaques for a Johnny Bach and Tex winter probably in the UC. Yes. And they really should probably acknowledge the whole thing because let's be honest like the organization wouldn't be where it was. Yeah. I think like a historical like exhibit or like museum exhibit type of thing in the atrium would be really cool because there are so many.

12:21Yes. There's not like you're seeing the the banners and like Phil and Jerry Krause I believe have. And maybe a couple of the people have banners in the arena. So it's like they got their quote unquote jersey retired even though they didn't have a jersey. Yeah. But yeah, I think like the further away we get from the stuff the more important it is for people to remember how we got here. So I like that idea of having monuments or exhibits that are dedicated that are not just like pop ups on the night that you have the ring of honor. But something that lives there forever. And I think to your point, Joey, this is a little bit weird. He is not the best coach in Lakers franchise history. He is not the winningest coach in Lakers franchise history. And yet he has a statue there but doesn't in Chicago. It's just it is a little strange to me. Again, I understand why the bulls have been more selective with that stuff. But like if anybody's going to get it, he seems like a good person to get it. Yeah, I'm with Joey as far as like the bust. Like you got to have that for a man because if you're going statue for Mike and then kind of a mini statue for Scotty.

13:24You get a bust for Phil Jackson. Like you deserve a thing of that. Like you don't win without him. You're dying to see ended because Phil Jackson didn't come back. It didn't mean because Mike didn't come back or PIP didn't come back. And then because Phil Jackson did not come back. And that's why Mike said, well, I ain't coming back. It's feeling coming back. And then it's over. They did retire him. They gave him a ban. Yes, they got a lot better. I'm talking about it. Yeah, I'm trying not to make it about like they completely forgot about him. But now I know the end of statues and everything when you really think about that. And he does not have one. Got to have a seat is kind of insane. For people who think it's too many for the Lakers, you tell me who these, which one he's got. I should not have a statue. Kobe Bryant, Shaquille O'Neill, Kareem Abdul Jibar, Magic Johnson, Jerry West, Elgin Baylor, Pat Riley, Chick Herne, and Phil Jackson. Yeah. You know what I'm saying bro, like, come on. That's a little tough there. But there, there, there, there, there. There got so nobody's against this. All the more reason to celebrate the history of the elite of the elite that you did have.

14:26Yeah, agreed. 100% agree man, but I'm with a bus for Phil Jackson here in Chicago. I love that he's got the jersey banner hanging up. That's awesome. A bus should come with that. Honestly, so we'll see. They got time to get it right. We'll see if they go ahead and do it, man. We're going to take our first break though right here. We're going to take the modest, but zealous disrespect must end. We're going to get into it. Yeah, we got a lot more fun on the way hit the like button as Joey C guide you to the break. Our friends at sunny side dispensary are here to elevate your baseball season. Sunny side is your home for judgment free shopping. They've got a crazy selection with over 100 strains to choose from with easy online ordering and in store pickup. Wherever you are in Illinois, sunny side has a location for you as far south as champagne. It's far north is south. Ballot stop in to the store nearest you for expert guidance from their staff. Good news, tea time babes. They've got them in lemonade flavors.

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16:27A complete AC two. So it's just 89 95 and that's back by a one year no breakdown. Get wrong T plus for limited time for seasons will include free hot water tank inspection. Trust me, you need that y'all. All it is the best on approved credit and it ends September for team plus four seasons will be any competitors offers by $1,000. Get wrong T. You heard. Visit for seasons heating cooling dot com for other special offers. Money saving coupons as for seasons heating cooling dot com. C. A. G. O. Bulls rolling with y'all. Man, thank y'all for being here. Continue to hit that like button in the comment. And if you're feeling saucy and spicy, you can go ahead and drop us a super chat. We would like that as well. Hey, Julia. Will the gold got lead? Joey C on production. I am big Dave. Goat. Let's get to this. One young Montess Boos Ellis. We are fans of him. He's awesome. Joe Cali. His latest article was detailing how Montess Boos Ellis may have become a forgotten man on the Chicago Bulls with all the attention now, you know on Caleb Wilson.

17:35And in front office, let me read you a quote from our friend, uh, Joe Cali, who is awesome. Y'all should be following him on Twitter. The all season hype surrounding the bulls, however, is about rookie Caleb Wilson, new coach, Thiago splitter, a new front office led by Braxton Graham. And even the addition of free agent guard Norman Powell, who is coming off his first all star season. Just a little reminder that Boussell is said at the end of last season that he was going to continue chasing greatness and showing the bulls. He can be a winning player. Now, Joe Cali went on to showcase. Maybe he's being being a forgotten man and he shouldn't be any listed the players with at least 173 pointers and 115 blocks. Dirk, KD, Rishi Wallace, Brooke Lopez, Miles Turner, and one young modest boozellis.

18:36Will the go got leave is modest being forgotten or disrespected around the league because of the Caleb hike that has come up because of all the newness of the Chicago Bulls is modest becoming forgotten. I don't know if forgotten or disrespected is the right way to put it. I think that what's happening here is that there's just a change in perception of who modest is by without him doing anything. Okay. Because by stuff happening to him or around him. So the last couple of years, it's been, wow, this was a guy who could have been the number one overall pick. He fell into the bulls laps at 11. And this is a guy who's got like serious star potential. And because he was really the only young player on the team with that kind of star potential, everybody fully invested their attention into him. Yes. And now that there's a player who I think people think might even be better than modest is there and on the team and has garnered all that attention, you're just redirecting that from modest on to Caleb.

19:39And I don't think people are necessarily forgetting about modest. It certainly shouldn't be. But I think that it's kind of slotted him now into a position where if you can be the number one player, that's great. But if you can be the number two player, that's great to now because you have another guy who could potentially be the number one player. So I think, and we talked about this a little bit yesterday. I think this is a big year for modest. I think he's going to have a lot to prove. And not a lot of it is like about Caleb or about his standing with the team. It's just like, this is year three. You have to start impacting winning. There's no more. The team should be tanking and they're not. There's no more. The team is trying to lose games at the end of the season and overburdening you by putting the ball in your hands when you're not ready for it. Like this is the time when you're playing for a contract extension. This is the time when you should be a veteran in this league, understanding what it takes to get through 82 games, understanding what it takes to impact winning and not just put up numbers. Like there's a big difference between blocking that many shots and hitting that many threes and impacting winning. Like those two things can coincide, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they do.

20:41And so far, this is a bullseye that's one 39 games and 31 games with modest on the team. So that's not a criticism of modest. It's just the reality of the situation. Now they're going to be trying to win games. There is no more trying to tank or position yourself for lottery balls. It's just win. And so I think this is when we're going to learn a lot about modest. And with him coming up to a contract extension eligibility window next summer, it's an opportunity for him to make himself a lot of money and to establish himself as maybe the number two piece on the team moving forward. Maybe the number one. So there's I think a lot at stake for modest. And that doesn't mean that people have forgotten about him or disrespected him. I just think for me, it's about like this is your time. It's no more your young player figuring out like this is when young players start to figure it out. This is the time when that happens. And he's got to go out there and prove it. And I think he he thrives in that. Like he wants. He wants that attention. He wants that pressure on him because he is up for the challenge. And that's not the case for a lot of young players. So I think he can absolutely step into that. I don't know what he turns into. But this is the time for him to prove what he is and what he can be for this team.

21:44Because I and this is why you know we've I'm sorry I'm rambling a little bit here. But like this is why we've you know had conversations about giddy because it's like your three is when the stuff starts to happen. And now you're talking about a guy in year four, year five, year six. It's like the growth curve starts to level off around them. And this is the time when a lot of those jumps are still in that, you know, exponential growth hockey stick faith. So this is a big year for modest. It's bigger for giddy to no doubt about it. Caleb, I think you can give a little bit more time to because he's going to be figuring out how to get through 82 games. And what he needs to do with his body and developing his jump shot and learning how to play with the ball in his hands. But for modest, he's done all those things. And now it's like putting putting the pen to paper a little bit. Yeah, it's been this is a fine day. I thought something of well. Modus was the only thing we could clean our hope onto. Then Caleb came along and the reality and the reality is that he is a star. You just know it already. Modus can 100% be a pipping to our new Jordan.

22:45That kind of that statement kind of led to a question. I was wondering. Does modest have to become elite? To be like what up in this level of like. He's not going to be these kind of questions of is he's been disrespected? Is he being forgotten? Like does he have to climb to that level because already you're seeing bulls fans like all bro you know the two now you're in me because we got Caleb. And I'm sure modest mind. He's like no dude. I'm the best player in the world right now. You know what I mean? So but does he have to become that elite guy to not be that forgotten man? I don't think so because you can be a star player and elite player in this league without being the best player in your team. I mean we've seen for years now teams put together multi star like big three's and you know it was Steph Courier Kevin Durant the best team on the Warriors championship run in 2017 and 2018. Was it Kobe or Shaq? Yeah. It's like those kind of things happen and I don't not say modest is one of those players but I think there's room for both of those guys to really develop.

23:48I think the area where it's going to be a challenge is it's hard to be a superstar player in the league if you're not really making your team around you better and modest has not had the ball in his hands enough to just develop as a distributor and a playmaker and create shots for his teammates in addition to himself. So that's an area where I think he saw as a lot of room to grow and I'm excited to see if you can do some of that this year. But I mean you still see like star players in the league who are not the primary creator all the time. Pascal Siacum made it to game seven of the finals as more of an off ball player who was not the primary guy and if that's the outcome for modest or for Caleb for that matter like that would be a pretty good outcome. Not like the greatest thing ever but like that would be I think people would be very happy with that turning into a multi time all star guy who could be you know a number two on a championship team that be a really good outcome. Yeah so I think that's absolutely possible but I also think that if you want to see more than that there's just more that he needs to do and that's true for every young player. Yeah no you can hit that one that is correct. Mark's infinite saying modest is the best kept secret as long as he comes out and does what he has to do this season.

24:54Loz loves comics, crocking tubs rings and my tall Caleb and modest. It's it's feeling like the duo of it and I think it's only natural for people to put their a pecking order trademark for guys like that when you're talking to one in a two you're talking to a peeping Jody talking to Burmicael. If you've been talking to Steph and the end of the rent like there's a order for it with that with modest modest thinks he's the best and I always want modest to think he's the best Caleb thinks he's the best and I always want Caleb think he's the best. If you have two guys with that kind of mentality approaching the game in that kind of way you can't do nothing but get good things out of that. Yeah but you have to also like understand the situation around you and like nobody has ever won anything on their own. No so you have to figure out what they can play in three in four in five exactly. And I'm not saying they can't do that but I think that's part of being a great players understanding how to play with other great players.

25:54I like that. By the way we're talking about like some all time legendary do is here and we're comparing them to reexamertal. I mean all time he's talking about we're talking about a guy who's never won 40 games in his career and a rookie and a rookie. They've got so much so much more to do to even get to like half of that. So that's what needs to happen but obviously you want to aspire to it but there's a long road to go and I think they both know that too. So I think that's the only thing that's going to happen is that he's going to have to ask this question what must modus do this season to remind people that he is that do that he is that guy. It's cool to pin your hopes to me to carry this franchise because he really believes he's that and he's look he's improved every year. The two years he is he is absolutely improved with as a basketball player like it went from like oh man please play him to oh there's no doubt you're playing all the time it went from oh man modus score 30 to oh man modus didn't score 30 tonight.

26:59It was a surprise so he's definitely improved his game and he's definitely gotten better on both ends of the floor especially as a defender like a one on one guy down there looking go look at the numbers. I think he's probably been in the block shots obviously you're there as well but people are still obviously I think going to question it and this is going to lead to the next thing we're going to talk about trust me is going to lead to this but what do you think he has to do though go to does remind people like I'm I'm that do because it can't still just be what you did last season like you said you three that needs to be an elevation. He's gone kind of like up slowly he's got to like take a big jump at a certain point what's what's a big jump he a great player right now he's like a talented player but he's not a great player okay and I think like I said with the facilitation and distribution oftentimes especially with these like big wings you don't have to be like averaging 12 assists per game to be a great distributor like Jason Tatum has developed himself into a really good facilitator yeah who's averaging like 456 assists per game because he's drawing the five.

28:01He's drawing defensive it defenses in with the threat of his scoring and helping his teammates get good shots that's the kind of thing that. Modus is going to need to do that Caleb is going to need to do that giddy is going to need to do all of them while also contributing to the team scheme at the same time and so he's got to be much better at getting to the basket and drawing fouls he's got to be much better and more like quick as a shooter his shot still a little bit slow I know he's willing to shoot them and has a good volume but I think he needs to take even another step there yeah and then the facilitation and the attention to defense detail defensively I think all those areas need to take big steps it's not just like if he gets a mid-range jumper he's a star like he's far away and everything he's got all the tools in the world to be able to get there but he's got to put it together and I think now is the time when you really have to start seeing that he doesn't have to be a top 20 player next year but you have to start to see him put a lot of these things together and I will say he did take a step last year I think a lot of people were hoping for more and he kind of set that expectation with trying to win most improved player but he took a big leap after all start break during his rookie year when he started playing a lot more and then to sustain that for a full year playing

29:09starters minutes that's a that's a step yeah and so there's probably a lot more room for growth there but I do think he needs to continue taking big steps and not just like slow incremental ones if he's going to be that kind of a star player that we're talking about and when we're talking about steps like honestly like with modest I just want to see that consistency a little bit more like I mean the dude kind of sort of floats and fades in out of games sometimes especially you know it kind of depends on what kind of night gitties having every once in a while he gets a couple shots up he hits a couple of threes maybe he has a good night but I want to see a dude that even went on nights maybe the shot isn't going down like figure out a different way to affect the game man like become that dude that like wipes out blocks on the back end become that dude that cuts to the lane and picks up a couple easy buckets just like figure out different ways to consistently be effective on the floor I just think that's going to feed into his confidence so on nights like what do you play when he played the Lakers right he actually like torched him so when those nights are going to happen right there's going to be other nights when it isn't going to be working for him and the way he kind of floats in and out of the action a little bit is really frustrating to me because I know how talented he needs to understand how to impact every single play I think he's gotten a lot better at that but this is a new setup around him there's a new coach there's a new philosophy there's a

30:23new strategy there's new players in here that you know quite frankly have more upside than he does so he's going to have to learn how to fit into that while also trying to stay true to who he is and what he believes he can be and that's exactly what he should be doing like these players you have to be able to think that you're the best player in the league in order to continue getting better year after year so I'm not taking that away from him whatsoever but he also needs to learn how he can impact winning more consistently and that's everything it's not just like make more threes or allow him to take mid or in shots like he's got to be more you know a ten of defensively he's got to be quicker on the perimeter he's got to get over screens better he's got to be more engaged on that side he's got to be able to just dig in and hold up on a drive and like take take contact on that he's got to be able to drive to the basket offensively and draw fouls and learn how to create space off the dribble and make the right read like there's every everything should be what he needs to work on yeah and rebounding is another good one eco be and like he is just every single area of his game needs to be improved there's no there's nowhere right now that's like yeah he's set at star level right there that's not that's not where he is and I think he can get there but that doesn't mean that he doesn't still need to get a lot better

31:32or be cooking for us what a god we're gonna go ahead and take our second break when we come back y'all all these rankings from the athletic all ladies and gentlemen uh uh just go to break joe c alright come on back you're gonna want to hear this go ahead go ahead no one joe c leaves leaving the house get in his car driving down the street coming to song in his head checking the review mirror not for the cars behind them but just making sure the hair was on point ladies and gents and then he says oh my goodness did I leave the stove running oh man did i forget something at the house you never get something you forgot to say about your wife and your dog but you don't have to worry about if you left that hot water running or anything like that because you got extremity shield ladies gentlemen a force field for your home built right into your wifi giving you peace of mind for your home your family and your life online and that wifi motion detection y'all your infinity gateway can sense movement inside your home no cameras so you need you can rest very easy

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33:33location right on route 12 and Fox Lake and don't let these savings pass you by shop the model year end sales event all month long for 0% financing for not one not two not three but 60 months on brand new Chevrolet models shop Chevrolet shop ratio relay in Fox Lake or ratio relay dot com serving the community since yeah C.A.G.O bulls y'all rolling with y'all will the goat got leave Joey see the production big Dave all rolling with y'all continue to hit that like button continue to put in your comments I'm loving all these comments that I'm seeing about this from modest let's start with a brand sense up there saying what he needs to work on point of attack defense wing defense and consistent scoring are the big question for the team all this is facts that's true um Diego saying modest absolutely needs to improve his handle and be more assertive with his decision making offensively uh goat you said this a bunch of times about the handle for sure of modest

34:35and we've talked about it on this show because we know once you get that handle I mean that's Kevin direct stuff you know what I'm saying I think that's the difference between guys being role players and guys being like potential star players is the is the ball handling and just the ability to get into your spots yeah and part of that is strength and physicality part of it is just ball handling uh modest has a deep back like he can he is he like clearly knows a lot of tricks and he knows and has worked a lot on his handle but it's not or at least it hasn't been as efficient in terms of getting him to his spots so that he can get a clean shot off and I think that's like part of the mid range thing is like he's not creating space in the mid range right now and you know maybe he wasn't allowed to do that as much and he would have been able to get into it more if that was a part of the system like I don't want to say I don't want to dismiss that um but I think that's a big difference between and we talked about with like Patrick over the years too where it's like okay you want to take a lot of mid range shots you got to get way better at your handles that you can get into your spots there and then that can change it's like okay you want the

35:36defenses step up you've got to be able to hit those shots consistently and if you're not hitting them consistently why are why are you getting those shots in the first place so all that stuff needs to come together and again I think he's got it in him like I think he's definitely got that and I think he wants to be like challenged on that stuff like I've talked to him about this a lot he like he really feels like he can be a star player and he wants the smoke like he really does yeah and that's what I think what gives him an opportunity to be there is that he has both the skill set the like innate tools and talent and also the mentality and drive to be able to get there and that's a rare combination especially when you're talking about a 6 10 forward so he has all the tools in the world to be able to accomplish these things but he's got a long way to go still and I think that's like a good problem to have right now where it's like you've still got a lot of room to grow but you've got all the tools in the world to get there and the work ethic and now it's just a matter of putting it all together and also I think learning how to fit into the team around you like that is a part of growing up in the every day every every player especially the hydra picks they come in and they believe they can be the best player on a championship team and it's their world and they're

36:39going to get every shot in the world and that's not always the case and then sometimes you have to adjust and it's not like you have to be told you're not good enough and like do something less but you have to learn and understand what teams are trying to do offensively and defensively to put themselves in the best chance to win every game because that's what is really about it's not about how can we go out there and help modest put up as money as many stats as he can it's about how can you win games right and what does modest need to do or contribute to your team to help them win games and if that is scoring the mid range on one night so be it but if it's spacing out to the corner on another night or attacking closeouts or taking on the point of attack assignment like those are things he's going to have to do and he's going to have to get a lot better at those things because he has he's been talented at at them again but he hasn't yet proven it consistently that he can do it at a high level every single night you know sometimes Joey see I'll be like listening to go talk and then I'll say oh man when he finishes I'm going to drop this point right

37:40and then go he's got it I'm saying he's cooking so hard and you listen to him and you're like okay now it's cool it's cool I'm leading this alone let's move on yeah no you do that too but then I just interrupt you I'm talking I want to say that it's why I'm like this is one of my reason so I can stand it's definitely a part where no one can see behind the camera but like when I try and inject you know sparingly throughout the show I always do the microphone but like sometimes I'll like lean in it's the goal start talking and then I'll lean back and I'll be like he's got he's got it I don't think I need to wait and he's hot right now he's getting a little basketball ladies and gents gotta know we'll end up taking shots oh man let's get spread out let's get to these rankings wrote um these are interesting uh Zach Harper who represents the bounce via the athletic releases top 14 forwards and top 40 shooting guards uh I'm gonna start

38:45with the forward since we're talking modest was Ellis and I kind of was discussing this respect and I said I'm gonna get to that well let's get to it uh there's the list of the top 10 that you can see Janis Tatum uh Bancaro Siacom who was seventh last year J. Lenzhanson who was 12th uh Laurie Markenin who was eighth during my green with fifth last year Cooper Flag was 10th Zion Williamson was fourth and Julius Randall rounds it out he was sixth last year and if you go down just as close this is powerful or just forwards just forwards just forwards go down just a sketch there ladies you will see one Kayla Wilson coming in at 15 and then you go all the way down a little you see modest was Ellis at 27 and then ladies and gentlemen I mean you see it feel like I'm taking crazy pills like you see it Patrick Williams at 29 um Kayla I'm sorry

39:52Kayla was not rated last season obviously Pat modest was Ellis was 24th last season and Patrick Williams was 26th last season so no real change as far as like where those guys you know are in the order of where they're going up to each other but just a change as far as them dropping but Patrick Williams being 29 joy see when I sent this to you originally in parentheses I put what and I said no I'm not going to do that let me get that out of here but let me start with modest man goat seeing modest at 27 again this is just forwards at 27 who was 24th last year how do you feel does that make you feel does that surprise you or you're like yeah that's about right I mean I think it goes back to this conversation that we're having before about like is he the forgotten man is he the is he being disrespected and it's like maybe a little bit but he has not done it in a way that is proven that he is at that level yet he has all the tools and potential in the world to be

40:54able to be in that top 10 of his position but he's got to do it like it's not just like potential anymore that's the that's a trap I think a lot of people fall into with no players especially it's like it's not just how young are you it's like your experience in the NBA and at a certain point you figured out or you don't and modest is still getting better to be sure but I just don't think he is like proven that he is a top 15 par four in the league I don't see how you could place a rookie in there either right now maybe this is like projecting who will be at the end of the season heading into the season heading into the season maybe but like but that he has at least it but then I probably would put modest higher like slightly but he's got to do it more consistently I think that's just the fact also the types of tears that he has for it for the one Caleb Wilson is in is tier four these guys have massive impacts so he's got him there for that tier but for modest who's Ellis and Patrick Williams there in tier six some some or starters some should be

41:56why would Patrick Williams be in that category like Jimmy got no idea all right I'm confused as you I promise me you're looking to say wait I mean but I just I wouldn't put too much stock in any this it's like one guy's opinion about where how positions stack up who's like probably not watching 82 bulls games a year it's like I'll dare you I just like this stuff doesn't really make a huge you know impact on me like I don't I don't really care about this stuff you know it should make an impact but for me it's just highlighting the point and the question of what I was asking of the disrespect of them is he forgot man those kind of things because they put a dude at 15 who hasn't played yet and they put two at 27 it's like sounds like forgot man addition but I think again that goes back to this idea of potential and banking on potential and what this person is saying is we believe that Caleb has potential to be in his rookie year the 15th best power for in the league and because modest hasn't put it on full display yet consistently and because the potential is now two years old it it's like he's not as high so

43:00they're banking on Caleb's potential and telling you what they thought modest has done so I think it's just it's a different criteria to be talking about a rookie versus a third year player and I think yeah modest still has a lot of potential but you're not I just don't think you're grading any of this on potential so that's why it's like for me it's hard to have both of those things like you know if you're gonna have it based on potential then yeah modest to be higher but if you're gonna have it based on impact I don't see how you could put a rookie who has never played an NBA game this high yeah it's it is surprising to me and you're right the list don't move me or sway me or affect me unless I see that the impact Williams air 29 but it does feel a little crazy to see modest air at 27th 24th last year and that's I think that's what is jumping out of me go he had a better season then he did his rookie year when they had him at 24th like he had it better see he improved you know what I mean that's what you want your young guys to do is to improve and get better in and all those metrics he did that so to have him come down a few spots after doing

44:04something like that it's it's a little surprising to me to see that kind of thing for for modest again this is stuff that I want to send to modest to show him and say hey this is what they think of you only because you know he takes those things very personal you know what I mean for that reason it it might again don't mean nothing to go don't mean nothing to me like that but for the dude playing it might mean something to him it's like a 2k rating to him don't mean nothing you ought to say it to us but to the person who's playing oh that means something to them so that kind of stuff is what I want to show to modest is that let's say hey man this is what somebody out there is thinking about you in this major publication out here in the athletic I want you to take a look at that in I think also you I mean you look at the people that have jumped in above him it's Caleb it's can Booser and it's Khan Murray boils like those are guys that have either as much or more potential but are newer and more fresh or have that kind of potential and have also impacted winning at a higher level of recovery boys was incredible in the playoffs last year. Oh he was

45:05absolutely a different thing absolutely so yeah I think he's just like guys got slotted in ahead of him and that just kind of is what it is but it's like that's why he has to start doing it now if he does it I think like there's no reason he can't be a better power for than Jeremy Grant or he's like yes he's got all the potential in the world to do that but he just hasn't done it yet where is Lebron on that list so great questions he must be a small forward that's the other thing I'm looking at this I'm like where are Kevin Durant where is Lebron where is don't have me why is Julie's Randall I just gonna say Julie's Randall hitting 10 I mean talk about a guy that like are you watching the games are you not watching the games I mean the guy puts a really good number I don't like no offense but yeah please say it's one now please one now and also going through his top 10 top 15 Jabari Smith Jr. at 11 Aaron Gordon at 12 miles bridges yeah to 13 Cameron Booser another one as Goat Sand and at 14 and PJ Washington at 16 so

46:06yeah that these are the tears that he has and what he's rolling with the top tier was Yannis obviously for I liked it because the tier one was are you Yannis onto the Kumpo and tier two was are you chasing Tatum like yeah that sounds right to me that's how I should go so what do you think about Paulo with three I feel like that's a little high that's high for Paulo man like it's weird because when I saw it I didn't flinch I was like okay like I kind of get it mutations doing a lot of heavy lifting there the young man's very good like he's got a way to go as far as like becoming that guy I'm saying in the NBA but he's that damn good he is a really excellent basketball player he is the first person on the board that the coaches game planning for is is somebody like that um but it didn't surprise me seeing him in there because I'm like yeah even if he was three four or five I wouldn't have been shocked uh for having that in there like that so I get it uh it makes sense um yeah it didn't do nothing to me go I don't think it shocked me at all

47:11and that tier was stars and star role players and that was tier three uh that he had them in as well man but yeah Patrick Williams overall like I'm sorry bro like if you want to have them that cool but 29 like 29 is high you know what I'm saying for somebody who we had the bench that's how you that's how you know the planet earth is a wide expanse of variants of ideas and thoughts and opinions because I'm sure there are still people out there that think man I maybe I can unlock them and those are the people I want to call because I want to talk to those people I want to possibly make a deal to trade about you know what I mean like there's everyone's everyone's that's their own way of trying to see the brighter side on things and yeah and look Patrick it's a fresh start this year and take it from there that we're taking from it and you're right Joey see because I always say you only need one you need one person to agree you know what I'm saying I see the vision in some play it on the team I'll do it I'll trade for you we'll see okay this is like the Patrick

48:15thing I don't I feel like every time we talk about Patrick it has to be like this big referendum on everything I don't want to make it like that he had a bad year last year and it was like very bad so I don't think he is a 27 indicates to me that he would start on some teams I don't think that's the case I think he is a low end I mean he was one of the worst players in the league statistically last year is minus 4.2 EPM which is 4th percentile I mean yeah he was he was not good or if it's so that's fine but I think it's I didn't want to bring it up to like just trash Patrick I wanted to bring it up because it's a reminder that the potential has to stop somewhere and Billy Donovan said this to us years ago and we just didn't listen which was at a certain point where you were drafted stops mattering and whether you're impacting the game is the only thing that matters and that's why there are guys who are undrafted who become good players and guys who are top five picks who bust out of the league so at a certain point that stops I don't know what that point is but it's like the rob dilly having a conversation or you know like jade and ivy even it's like these guys were high draft picks in their class but their teams gave up on them they were kind of forgotten and

49:18they're like fighting to stay in the league at this point and I think Patrick's in that same boat at a certain point like and I'm not putting modest in that same category because he is impacting the game at a much higher level but at a certain point all these guys are going to need to impact winning and make the bulls-a-winning team like that is that is that should be like the be all end all with all this stuff it's like I don't care about what their stats are if they're winning 30 games I don't care about the triple doubles I don't care about you know 100 blocks and 103s or any of that stuff like that doesn't matter if you're winning 30 games what are we talking about so like start doing it on a winning team and then we'll talk go man I love it we just like this is good stuff oh man all right let's move to the second one the latest gentleman let's move to the top 40 shooting guards that he had here listed by Zach Harper as you can see Anthony Edwards Devin Booker Donovan Mitchell Desmond Bain Austin Reeves who was eighth in previous year Derrick White who was on the list for point guards last year and 17 is on this list here at number six

50:26Stefan Castle who jumped way up who was 17 last year and should awesome our guy Zach Levine at number eight who was at number seven previously Devin Vasil or Vasil have you want to do it 20 last year he is number nine and Chicago Bull Norman Powell Powell comes in at number 10 he was number 11 in the previous season I feel like when I see lifts foot Norman Powell go he's going to be around that 10 to 15 kind of range um he's respected around the league uh teammates love him everybody on the outside kind of loves him Zach Harper kind of confessed his love forward Norman Powell he's I've always been a Norman Powell fan and I'm very excited to see what they do what he does with the Chicago Bulls this season Norman so Norman Powell though go do you uh feel

51:31like he's a top 10 kind of shooting guard in the NBA regardless of this list right here he's just in general feel like he's a top 10 I think he's in that area code with shooting guards and honestly with all players like there's such different kinds of players that play the same position that it's like hard to rank one against each another the first thing I want to say is like Devin Vasil went from 20th to ninth last year why did that happen because he was a starter on a team that made the NBA finals so what is the big thing that matters to near winning winning okay great now that we got that out of the way um Norman Powell I mean he's been an all-star he's been on winning teams he has not like made it to the highest level in terms of his teams success but I think in terms of his talent you got to put him in that same category but like I agree I would not have him ahead of a Derek White who's you know probably one of the best role players in the league doing what he does even if he's not scoring the way that Powell does with the efficiency same thing with like Caruso who's listed as a shooting guard here or Ludoord or Josh Hart like these are guys that are you know elite

52:35role players that impact winning at the highest level four teams that make it to the highest level so I think in terms of talent like I guess but like I don't really care about how many points you can score that like that stuff doesn't that doesn't move me at all in these kind of arguments so like if you're gonna do that you have to be like a lead of the elite and he's been a very high level high efficiency score so I think you could put him there I obviously would not have him in the same categories Edwards or Booker or Mitchell so I think he's probably in that right range but that's where you start to factor in guys like Caruso or you know Dord Dord Hart Dillon Brooks like those kind of players who are behind him I think are in that same category because they're better at like a quote unquote lesser thing even though the lesser thing is like impacting winning in more ways than just scoring yeah and that's what they have the guys you mentioned in the tier 4 elite glue guy role players is what they have Josh Hart, Luke Dorr, Alice Caruso, Dylan Brooks, Dyson Daniels and RJ Barrett in that category and yeah you would have them right there. Caruso being

53:37ranked 13 you cool with that I mean is there is there a player you would rather have on the court in the final three minutes of a tie game in the NBA finals. Pastor Williams okay like some guys just help your team. He's so close to vacation. I know I'm going. You know what I mean I'm kidding. Yeah. I knew Joey see. I guess I'm just in a mood today where winning is is like your impact on winning matters to me and it's always matter. Yeah. I don't think that's a debate. I hate to tell you. I don't think that's ever a debate. Your impact on winning should always matter. But when you're doing list sometimes you're going by the player. Yeah. It doesn't impact the actual winning. Yeah the winning can impact where you are ranked wise you know what I'm saying on the list but when you're if you get on the list. Yeah it matters what you do your stats matter in that kind of sense. Like I would assume we took a huge jump from unranked last year to 19th. Why wonder why?

54:38One I'm a playoff series by scoring 40. Hey come on. Hey come on. What are we doing here? Come out. Tim Hardaway Jr. also on the list. We saw shout out with shout out to him for that Jordan. Paul Christian Braun. Marcus Smart. Miles McBride coming in at 35 was interesting to me. Come play. Yeah he saw it. He saw it man. Shade and Sharp rounded out in 40. Former ball. And for me Simon. Coming in at 13. 9. He's in a good position in Philly I think to go ahead and impact that team because they're not going to ask him to defend or be the guy. They're going to ask him to put the ball in the ball at this point. They got so many guys after they said they go ask him put the ball in the bucket. Yes. That's it. And that's what he honestly does best is put the ball in the bucket. So it should be good. Also former Chicago Bull Collins sexting comes in on this list ladies and gentlemen at number 28 on this list man. So and he didn't move. He was 28 in the

55:39previous season also as well. But going back to Norman Powell being on this. I don't think he's talked about enough yet and rightfully so because all the young guys is kind of what everybody you know is kind of gravitating to with the giddy with the modest and you know with Caleb and all that and then you know the claxing like all this like yeah I get that. But he came in and he's kind of just been kind of quiet. He had one kind of statement. He said we could be good. We'll give you that. You know you gave a wheel to go got leave kind of statement like we went back to see what happens. And then he went away and then he I just think he went back to work you know but he's a guy that I'm going to really be looking at because when that fourth quarter hits in this season and you're wondering who you're going to be giving the ball to and who's going to have to do something. It's going to be him. He's going to have the basketball. He's going to be scoring the buckets and he's going to be creating the shots and the situations for the Chicago Bulls and I can see

56:39Thiago split her absolutely falling in love with that in the fourth quarter and where we'll come where I'm interested to watch it from is when teams start really truly defending that. Then what's coming from that you know then I'm looking at Thiago like what you going to do. And I think also you know just is he doing it on a team that wins 30 games or a team that wins 40 45. I think there's a difference there too. So what is the difference in that because I'm only asking because we've said winning is in a big thing for them this season. Not this season but I think it takes a better player to be that guy on a team that wins 45 50 games than it does to be that guy on a team that wins 25 30 35 games. That's a big difference to me. Okay. And the last thing I would say is just you look at all these position rankings and you look at the great teams in the league and they've all got a guy on the top five at their position. And that is a thing that I think potential maybe they get there for sure. But I mean you could even think about it in terms of

57:42was it the right idea to like trade Kobe and I.O. and those guys it's like at a certain point if you want to be a great team you have to have great players not just good players. So that's something to think about whenever you look at these types of rankings is like where does your team stack up against the rest of them because that's what you're playing for right you're not just playing to like put up big stats on about 10. What if you had 8 to 10 good players. No sir it's 9 to 10 all right. How dare you is ridiculous. Yeah that's crazy talk coming that way Joey see all right you stick to that production sir how dare you. How turn my mic off. We'll do that now man and how about we turn our mic off. Turn on mic soft man and do it that way ladies and gentlemen thank y'all for joining us and hanging out with us man we always appreciate y'all being here tomorrow C.A.G.O. Bulls the run is happening tomorrow we know we do it Friday but we're gonna do something special for y'all and doing on Thursday myself main man Drew Stevens you

58:42can follow him at by Drew Stevens we will be with you all tomorrow ladies and gentlemen hit that like button on your way out tell go to he's an awesome writer and individual and make sure you read that stuff at all C.A.G.O. .com Joey C. is awesome there too he does the cubs and everything else that's Joey C. on production I am big Dave y'all we'll see y'all soon love y'all appreciate y'all peace