Survival Shotgun Questions - Loads Patterning Breaching Drones & More

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Today we're gonna talk about a comment or question

I got on Patreon that I thought was really good,

and I thought if this guy has these questions,

likely many of you guys have these questions

about shotguns because

it seems like, unless you're like a hardcore

skit shooter sporting clays, something like that,

that's its own thing and its own specialty shotgun.

Most of the gun community, the gun tube glitter rotti,

is not pushing a shotgun the way that it should be.

It's the most versatile, most flexible, small arm

that anybody can own.

It's versatility is unmatched,

and it's practicality for almost everything is unmatched.

And I think it's very misunderstood, very neglected.

So I talk about the shotgun a lot.

I do that a lot because a lot of other people

don't talk about it or don't talk about it

in such a way as like a versatile survival weapon

or a versatile defensive weapon.

So in that vein, let's get into today's topic.

Now to give credit where it's due,

this question is from Journeyman.

I would love to hear more about shotgun loads

also crossover shotguns for hunting,

survival, drones, breaching,

what makes each better for its task and so on.

I recently came into some double barrel shotguns,

two and they have different chokes for each barrel.

Could you go over SOP for patterning different loads?

Okay, I'm gonna start with patterning and loads,

maybe go back on some of the other stuff.

Okay, so there is a textbook definition

of what a full choke is.

And this is off the top of like,

this double check these numbers,

but it's something like 70% of your pattern

in a 30 inch circle at 40 yards.

That's a full choke.

That probably doesn't mean much to you.

Here's what you need to know about chokes.

Choke is just a constriction at the end of a shotgun barrel.

Yes, if it's any kind of versatile shotgun,

if it's not just a hashtag,

need to thing that they mark it as a defensive shotgun.

Like, I gotta beat on the end of my barrel,

make big hole in target at five yards and into a range.

Like, if you care about actually using your shotgun dynamically,

you should have sights and you should have chokes.

In general, in general, with bird shot,

you will get tighter patterns at longer ranges

with a tighter choke.

And the basic chokes are a lot of in between,

by just some basic chokes.

Cylinder bore, which means no constriction.

So you got cylinder, you have skeet,

you have improved cylinder, light modified, modified,

improved modified, full extra full turkey.

Those are some of the basic chokes, I think, in that order,

unless I mix one up in my head, in that order.

You might think, well, why wouldn't I just want

the fullest, most constrictedest choke all the time?

Miracle, more is better, supersize me.

More is not always better.

There's a couple of reasons.

One, a full choke, you can shoot some slugs

through a full choke, it's not recommended.

So get rid of some versatility there,

especially if you're going to actually train and practice

if you're going to shoot a lot of slugs.

So you can shoot like a foster slug through any choke,

not recommended that you do so.

So you're losing some there.

Also, in general, you'll get the best,

and I think it's even recommended almost slug boxes.

You'll get the best accuracy and performance

out of a cylinder or improved cylinder choke

with slugs.

Another one is a buck shot may or may not abide

by those patterns.

So with a bird shot, you're usually going to get

a tighter pattern with a full choke.

That may not be the case with buck shot,

especially the large buck shot.

You may get to a point of diminishing returns,

we're actually getting less.

So that's that.

Also, even for hunting, more is not always better, right?

If you're trying to shoot a quail over dogs

and your average shot distance is 10 yards or less,

you don't want all of your pellets out of a 12

or even a 20 gauge or the majority of your pellets

hitting that little tiny quail at 10 yards.

It's way more than a necessary

and the point that you're shooting at is so you can eat it.

So you got to balance that.

Now, remember, I said, whatever choke is,

you know, we're in a 30 inch circle,

you get X amount of pellets at X amount of yardages,

that doesn't really matter to you.

Get out there and test your shotgun

with your loads and your chokes.

Now, how does one do that practically?

Get a box of whatever load you hope to use.

Start at, let's say five yards, shoot it a few times,

pattern it like on a piece of paper

or a piece of steel and a bunch of spray paint,

but pattern it.

Superimpose a picture or a photograph

or just a circle the size of the vitals of your target,

whether that be a rabbit or a torso person, right?

And deduce whether that will be effective or not.

Start at five yards, go to 10, 15, 20, 25,

all the way back to, you know, 75 yards or so,

depending on your load and your buck shot load or whatever.

But that's how you do it.

And yeah, you got to put in the work.

I don't know what load is going to shoot best

out of your 12 gauge, you know, modified choke gun.

You have to do that work.

There's a bunch of different buck shot loads

and no, they're not all the same.

I know you're, you know, the cheap Rio nine pellet buck shot

is not going to be the same as a good flight control,

federal buffered and or copper plated

or, you know, nickel plated, but it's not going to perform the same.

That may or may not make a difference to you,

but you have to test out your shot load with your shot gun.

And yeah, that's a lot of work and a lot of ammo

and probably a lot of recoil.

You got to do it.

There's really no way around that.

Even if we both have eight seventies

with modified chokes, right?

Yours and mine can perform completely different.

Shotguns can be very individualistic.

But if you want a pretty good way to determine and deduce

what your effective range, take the load that you intend on using

and the acceptable kill zone of that target

that you plan to shoot with it.

Again, whether that be, I don't know,

anything from a dove to a grizzly bear

and you superimpose that on target

and you back up five, 10, 15 and just keep going.

It's still, bam, you can't reliably take out that target.

Can't ethically take out that target.

And that's your range out of your shot gun for that load

with that choke.

And again, does that require work?

Yes.

A lot of people think shotguns are simple

because it's like a tube, right?

And a shotgun shell.

There's a lot to shotguns.

There is an RNA science of shot gunning.

And if you want to be a connoisseur,

a sommelier of the shotgun,

you got to put some leg work in, right?

You got to put some range time in.

But that's a good rule of thumb for testing loads.

I'm not going to explain gauges in this.

I've explained it a bunch, but you know, gauges,

shotgun is like opposite day, right?

The bigger the number, the smaller the gauge,

the same is true with shot, the bigger the number,

the smaller the shot.

The smallest common when you're probably going to see

his eight shot, but eight, seven and a half,

those are for very small birds and or sporting clays,

or skeet or clays or whatever you want to call it.

But that's the general rule of thumb.

Like, smaller is better.

You might see some nines, but in general comments

that you're going to see eight, seven and a half,

that's good for very small birds.

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In my opinion, the most versatile bird shot is number six,

lead shot.

And number six shot.

Is it the best for quail?

No, is it the best for fessant?

Maybe, maybe not.

Is it the best for rabbits and squirrels?

Actually, probably yes.

Is it the best for turkey?

No.

You could take all those things with number six shot.

Number six, if you're just going to have one bird shot,

which I don't know why you would,

but if you are number six shots,

probably your most versatile,

it is probably the sweet spot for squirrels and rabbits

and things like that.

That can actually be pretty tough.

You might think, well, the turkey's a lot bigger yet,

but you shoot a turkey in the face.

So it's face is not actually a lot bigger.

It's head and neck is actually what you're aiming for on a turkey.

So yeah, number six shot is really versatile.

And then obviously go up to bigger shot sizes.

However, a lot of the waterfowl,

it's federally federally regulated.

And Uncle Sam has deemed that you are not allowed to shoot

the government's federal waterfowl with steel with lead shot.

You must use steel shot.

So steel shot is nowhere near as effective.

It just isn't, but it's not toxic.

So they make use it.

They say that it's better for the environment

or whatever, which I don't understand

because the lead comes out of the ground,

you put it back on the ground, whatever.

But let's assume it doesn't matter what you believe

or don't believe, or if you care about condors or not.

They deem that you must use steel shot for waterfowl.

It's a federal thing.

So in general, you're moving up to like ducks and geese.

You have to use steel shot,

which I'm not going to get into today.

Just realize that's a thing.

Steel plays by different rules.

Also going back to choke's steel shot

and like wise a full choke, not always better.

You generally can't shoot unless it's designed for it.

Steel shot out of a full choke

because steel doesn't compress.

And you have to use pretty big shot for most things

because steel is really bad for most things.

So anyway, just getting off on a tangent there.

But you will see bigger shot sizes.

When you start getting big enough,

you'll start going from letters

or start going from numbers into letters.

Things like, you know, B, B, B, triple B,

T shot, these are bigger.

These are generally things you'll use for waterfowl.

Although some of these in lead shot

are pretty good for things like coyote.

You're getting into that realm

where, you know, predator hunting, coyote, things like that.

You can be pretty effective for that type of shot.

One big misconception.

Number four shot and number four buck shot

are vastly different.

They are completely different thing.

Buck shot is much, much bigger than your numbered shot

and your waterfowl shot.

Buck shot is for buck and defense against people.

Buck shot is substantially bigger.

So when somebody says number four,

and they're talking about defense, hopefully,

if they know what they're talking about,

they're talking about number four buck shot

and not number four bird shot and not like a turkey load.

But buck shot is bigger still.

Buck shot goes back to numbers.

I don't know why, but it just does.

And the smallest buck shot, I believe,

that exists is number four buck.

It also happens to be my favorite buck shot load.

A lot of people will say double out, double out, double out

because the military uses it, police use it.

I think number four is better for most people, for most things.

A standard load, 12 gauge, two and three quarter inch shell,

just a standard load of number four buck is 27 pellets.

A magnum is 41 pellets.

You go to, and that's 24 caliber.

I know it's a lot of numbers, but you asked for it.

It's a shotgun episode.

You go to double out buck.

That's nine pellets in a standard and 12 on a magnum.

Yeah, it is 33 caliber, but you get a lot less of them.

If you get a 24 caliber pellet going at 1,600 feet a second,

1,300 feet a second, whatever, in the right spot,

that is pretty devastating.

Doesn't have to be big if it hits a heart,

liver, spinal cord.

I don't know that it makes much difference,

whether it's 33 caliber or 24 caliber.

Now, granted, each individual pellet is going to do less damage,

but because when you start getting big in pellet size,

you get a lot less efficient in the stacking of them

in a cylinder, like a shotgun shell.

You just, in my opinion, you get a lot more.

There's also in between, right?

Number one buck is a really good in the middle,

middle of the road buck shot, but buck shot is its own thing.

Your classic one, again, military and police is 9 pellet,

double-out buck.

There are many different variants of buck shot, buck shot.

I could do an entire series.

I could probably do, you know, 10 episodes on buck shot.

Yeah, I probably could.

It's, again, shot gunning is an art and a science.

But let's get back to the listener's question

because it probably got way off topic.

All right, he asked about survival shot.

Because I've done entire episodes,

which I'm not going to insult your intelligence,

you probably know how to use the search engine on,

I've done many episodes on go to survival shotguns.

Here's what I think makes a good all around survival shotgun

as opposed to a one-trick pony,

like just a straight up birding shotgun.

The ability to take chokes and proper sights.

And by proper sights, I mean like rifle sights

on a smooth bore shotgun, not a rifled barrel shotgun.

That's a specialty thing.

You're getting rid of all the versatility of the shotgun

because you live in a state that infringes you so hard

that you can't even use a rifle in deer season.

That's why you have a rifled barrel shotgun.

Gets rid of all the versatility.

Now you just have a slug gun.

You basically have a less accurate 45, 70 at that point.

So not, you're getting rid of all the versatility

of the shotgun.

So I'm not talking about a rifled barrel shotgun.

I'm talking about a smooth,

barreled shotgun with rifled sights

and towards 20, 20, 60 ability to take an optic

and the ability to take a choke

and a reasonable length of barrel.

Now shotguns, if you reload, you know that shotguns

take pistol powder or pistols take shotgun powder.

They take basically the same powders.

700x800x, blue dot red dot clays, right?

Take same powder.

You don't need a long barrel.

You're not gaining velocity.

18 inches is the legal limit for some whatever reason.

You can argue whether that's good or bad, but it is.

In America, you need to have an 18 inch barrel

on your shotgun unless you want to go the, you know,

SPS routes were brought shotgun route.

But 18 inches is way longer than you need

to achieve good velocity out of a shotgun.

So you don't really need or want anything longer than that.

18, 20, 21 inch barrel more than you need.

Most hunting shotguns are gonna have a 28, 30, 32 inch barrel.

That's just, it's superfluous.

You're gaining extra weight, less maneuverability

and you're gaining nothing.

So a good all around survival shotgun,

the ability to take chokes because chokes

adds a great deal of versatility to your effective range

and your different shot patterns.

And the overall utilitarian nature of your shotgun.

So chokes, a smooth bore obviously

and some kind of good sighting system, not a bead,

not a vent rib, sights like a front and a rear sight,

not a bird hunting shotgun.

Now you can take birds with a aforementioned

all around good survival shotgun.

You can do it, it's not as good, obviously.

I'm not gonna go try and shoot a,

I wouldn't try to compete in shoot around of, you know,

ski with all around survival shotgun.

But you certainly can shoot moving targets

out of the air with a survival shotgun.

You choose the front sight like it's a bead.

We're talking about all around versatile shotgun here.

We're not talking about a specialty duck hunting shotgun

or a specialty deer hunting with slug shotgun.

That said, a good smooth wore shotgun

with rifle sights is actually can be really effective

on deer and elk and things like that

with foster slugs or Bernecke slugs.

He didn't ask specifically about slugs,

but both foster and Bernecke slugs

are meant to be shot through a smooth bore barrel.

And they do pretty well.

You, depending on the shotgun,

and again, you have to pattern your gun.

Don't just, you know, I got a shotgun

and just go to Walmart and buy the cheapest box of slugs

and expect to shoot where you're aiming.

I hope you wouldn't do that with a rifle.

You wouldn't just buy a rifle and not sell it at in

and buy the cheapest ammo at Walmart

in 30 out of 16, but like, oh yeah.

And then be surprised when you don't hit where you're aiming.

I don't know why you would do that on a shotgun,

but it seems like people think they can get away with it

because it's a shotgun.

Like, the ledger, some myth that it's this,

crazy, unique gun that you don't have to aim.

You absolutely have to aim a shotgun.

You might aim it differently.

The rear sight may be your eye on like a bird hunting shotgun

and then maybe you snap shooting,

but you still have to aim.

You don't think you have to aim.

Go try and shoot some clay targets out of the air

with your eyes closed.

See how well that works out for you.

Yeah, absolutely have to aim.

He asked about some pretty specialty stuff.

I've talked about it before.

One of the flex, some of the other flexibility

of the shotgun, he asked about drones,

shoot it with whatever you got in the shotgun

that you have for big birds, right?

Number six shot would probably work fine for drones.

I haven't shot a lot of drones

because I don't have a lot of money

to be buying dozens of drones

to shoot them out of the air,

but I imagine six shot would work just fine.

He also asked about breaching now

as somebody that was, you know,

an assault men, a sapper, a breacher in the military.

If you don't know what you're doing,

probably don't, so you don't blow your fingers off.

There are specialty breaching rounds

and specialty breaching jokes

and or exact holdoff distances that you should know

and gloves that you should wear.

So if you don't know that stuff

and you think you're just gonna shoot a door like Hollywood

and it's gonna swing open,

you might actually shoot the door and the door still closed

and you're missing some fingers

and maybe you've put out an eye.

So unless you know what you're doing breaching,

probably don't do that.

However, there are specialty breaching rounds.

They can usually be like a frangible round,

like a frangible slug or more common,

like a rubber plated bird shot,

generally what you use for breaching.

And I know you've, I don't even know,

I don't even have TV and I haven't had TV for so long,

but I imagine the movies they shoot the lock.

That's not actually what you usually do

when you're breaching.

I'm not gonna say never, but in general, you don't shoot the lock.

You shoot the hinges on the opposite side of the door

from the lock.

Not always but in general.

So whatever you're seeing, if you see people

shooting locks and they just swing open,

right, that's Hollywood, right?

Don't get your tactics from Hollywood

that you consider that your P.A.

Public Service announcement for the day.

But breaching rounds, breaching absolutely is a thing

and the shotgun is fantastic for it.

You can breach with the all-around survival shung

shotgun we talked about,

but a lot of times breaching is a specialty shotgun

and a specialty skill and it does require some practice

and some pretty legit safety precautions.

So if you're gonna do it,

you really should know what you're doing.

You could really hurt yourself for somebody else

if you don't know.

If you just think you've never done it,

you're just gonna run up to a door

and shoot a metal lock with your shotgun.

I hope it works out for you,

but I would not be surprised if you

lost some fingers or really damaged some nerves

and or your face.

So don't do that unless you know what you're doing.

Now going back to the bird shot,

I think there's something I should mention,

just don't just assume because it's number six shot

out of your modified choke that it's gonna

pattern the same as the load you've already tested, right?

Just like, you know, going back,

you got a 30 out six, right?

You could get 150 grain ammunition

and you could have a Federal, a Winchester, and a Remington

and they could all shoot to different places.

Similar with a shotgun, you could get number six shot

and you could have a Winchester or Remington,

what do they say, Federal?

And all three of those loads could pattern

completely differently because of WOD technology,

because of velocity, because of powder,

because of one just likes to play nicer in your choke.

There's, again, there's an art and a science

to shot gunning.

So don't just assume because they're number six shot, boom,

then you're, because you shot this load at 40 yards

and it patterned okay that this load is gonna patterned okay.

You have to test it.

Yes, about this tribal shotgun,

what makes it better at its task?

Okay, here's the thing, it's not, it's a generalist weapon.

Much like the scout rifle is a generalist weapon.

The scout rifle is not the best hunting rifle.

It's not, it's a totally completely adequate hunting rifle

for most things.

It's not as good as a dedicated general hunting rifle.

It's also not the best fighting rifle.

It's a completely mediocre fighting rifle

if you have to press it into that.

It's a scout rifle made for scouts

as a general purpose rifle.

If you're familiar with that concept,

it's not better either one of those things.

Just like the survival shotgun.

It's not better at its intended task than really anything else.

It's good at a broad variety of tasks.

That's why I consider a good all around survival shotgun.

Again, is it the best for breaching?

No, a dedicated breaching shotgun is better for breaching.

Is it the best at duck hunting?

No, a dedicated waterfall shotgun is better for duck hunting.

Is it better or great for shooting clay targets out of the air?

No, a good, fine, double over and under

is gonna be better for that.

But that duck shotgun is gonna be really bad for breaching.

The breaching shotgun is gonna be comically ineffective

at shooting targets out of the air, right?

So the survival shotgun is kind of adequate

for pretty much any task.

Not the best, not great even.

But decent, you know, with decent sights

and a decent slug that you've patterned out of your gun,

you're probably good to hit a man sized target

or a deer or an elk sized target

at depending on your shotgun, 150 yards even.

If you know what you're doing and you're good with it.

Also, if you pattern your buck shot,

you don't just assume it's gonna do well,

but you can get good buck shot loads out of some shotguns

that will pattern pretty well for defense and or hunting.

Medium size game out to 60, 70 yards or more.

If you do the work and really find a load

that works well out of your shotgun,

it's also really good for, you know, room clearing

if you have to do it.

So it's not a great special purpose.

It's not like, here's how I'm gonna put this.

Pretty much everything in firearms is a give and take.

So you gotta figure out what you want.

A good general purpose survival shotgun

and get is not gonna be the best duck hunting shotgun.

But unless you see the future and I don't, right?

Unless you see the future and you're talking

about a broad range survival,

you're going out to do a broad spectrum of things.

You don't know whether you're gonna have

to shoot a grouse to feed your family

or you're gonna see a deer

or you're gonna get into a shootout inside a building, right?

So a broad spectrum survival shotgun

can do all those things.

So no, it's not gonna be the best at a specific task

than a specific gun tailored to that task,

but it's gonna be good at a broad spectrum of stuff.

So I think that's a misunderstanding.

If you could see the future

and you knew you were gonna get into XYZ,

you'd have a gun specifically tailored

for that best situation or more realistically,

you could probably, if you could see the future,

you probably arrange it so you could avoid

these situational together

because getting shot at is not fun

and getting shot is even less fun.

And dying, well, that, right?

So I don't see the future and you don't,

but the shotgun is the most versatile all around

survival long gun in my opinion

because it can do all those things

from, you know, a morning dove out of the air

to a grizzly bear stop to a good door kicking gun

to breaching to, you know, many other things.

Well, I hope this made sense and was coherent.

I hope the listener that asked a question,

journeyman and many others out there

that are kind of confused about the shotgun

gained a little bit more understanding.

The shotgun is a very complex topic

and I think that's why maybe a lot of people

that don't have a lot of experience shy away from it

because they don't understand it.

Therefore, they malign it or just ignore it all together.

But if you're serious about survival,

survival guns, versatility,

you may consider making it kind of a core backbone

of your survival arsenal.

Anyway, with that guys, I appreciate you,

appreciate all that you do.

Kind of seems like a big chunk of this

was tactical tips.

So in light of that, maybe we just go to the tactical

verse of the day.

But he who endures till the end will be saved.

I didn't plan this out, I just went through

the last screenshot of Bible verse I had on my phone.

It's a good one though.

But he who endures till the end will be saved.

When they persecute you in this city,

flee to another.

Those are the words of Christ.

But he who endures till the end will be saved.

When they persecute you in this city, flee to another.

I don't think I need to do a lot of commentary

on that kind of Jesus, it's a good version.

It's a good verse applied to survival.

I appreciate you guys and have a blessed day.