When You Haven't Had Pleasurable Sex In Years, Start Here - Dr. Saida Désilets and Aaron Michael

You are now listening to the HackMyH podcast. The show that brings you guests for the woman

going through the menopause journey. I'm your host, Zora Benemou, a gerontologist, certified

sports nutrition, menopause, and breathing coach. Now if you're a woman in perimenopause

or postmenopause, check out the programs and freebies on the HackMyH website or the

biohacky menopause private membership and Facebook group to optimize your menopause experience

because menopause is inevitable, but suffering is optional.

When we lose estrogen in menopause, it's never just about hot flashes. Estrogen plays

a huge role in regulating appetite, insulin muscle, and even where we store fat. And without

it, many of us find ourselves hungrier, building muscle is harder, and weight can sneak

up on us, especially around our bellies. And the foundation that I always talk about

for body composition in this transition is always the same. We've got to build muscle

with strength training, eat enough protein to both feed that muscle and regulate appetite.

We've got to get enough good sleep, so growth hormone can do its job and regulate those

appetite hormones. And we must optimize those menopause hormones and then manage stress

so that we don't end up stress eating or overeating. This should work, but sometimes

we need a little support. Now we have medications like Ozenbik and they work in part because

they regulate appetite, which can be a game changer. But not everyone is ready for injectables,

and sometimes they even blunt appetite a little too much. And I meet a lot of women in

our community who are tempted to try these medications, but they're not ready nor willing.

And that's where I started to look for other options. And I found something pretty amazing

called Callocurb, which is 100% natural appetite management. It's a capsule that uses

amorous state. And this is a patented hops extract from New Zealand that took over 15 years

with $30 million in research to make. And their clinical studies show that it can reduce

cravings by 40%, hunger by 30%, and cut calorie intake by 18% within just an hour. And that's

what my friends who wear my guinea pigs and I are actually feeling too. It really does cut the

cravings and the snacking. And you know, I'm not a fan of hardcore fasting, but a couple of times

a year I would do a clean out like 48 hour fast. And Callocurb is going to be my perfect companion

when I need a little support. So if you're already got the foundations in place, you're lifting,

protein, sleep and stress, but you're still battling food noise, stress eating or boredom eating,

then Callocurb might be that missing tool to help you stay on track and focus on what your body

really needs. And the cool thing is that it's affordable and accessible. It's prescription-free

and easy to take. And I was lucky to get Callocurb to sponsor the show and give us 15% off with

the code Zora-Z-O-R-A at Callocurb-C-A-L-O-C-U-R-B. So just be sure to get back to me with your results.

Are you looking to add some spice back into your love life? And have you been doing the same

boring routines with your partner and just can't take it anymore? This episode is for you.

Now I'm going to try to keep my intros really short from now on. So here's me trying to be a

little straightforward. So I think 2025 has been the year about learning more about libido for me.

And trying to help women who are just not getting the results that they're looking for from hormones

like testosterone. Sometimes they just don't work for some people. So we've covered the biological

problems, the psychological ones, emotional, mental, spiritual ones. And today's episode really

covers the physical ones and gets really practical. So Dr. Saida Desile, she's got a PhD in

trans-personal psychology and is really well-known for her pioneering work and sexual sovereignty

and embodied pleasure. Now you're going to have to listen to our first episode together to get

a better grasp on what that means. And Aaron Michael, he's a sexologist and co-founder with Saida

of the embodied love university. I love that name. And he uses somatic, which means the body,

somatic practice, relational psychology and embodied awareness to help couples move beyond the

typical surface level connection and into relationships that feel safe, honest, and alive. And boy,

from other sexologists I've interviewed, psychoanalysts, they all agree that we need to feel safe to

have good sex. So just one little disclaimer is that Aaron Michael, he's not a licensed medical

doctor or a psychotherapist. His work focuses on embodied practices and relational education.

So for medical or psychological conditions, beyond his scope, he always collaborates with

licensed professionals when appropriate. And before we start, please don't forget to subscribe

to the podcast. And if you're there, can you rate and review it? Please, please. It's such a small

gesture that makes a huge impact for us. It's on Apple Podcast or Spotify. It takes two seconds.

And I would just love you forever. Please do that. And thank you to those of you who've already

done it. And you can also share the episode that you like with your friends. It really is a great

way to help us grow. And if you haven't checked out the YouTube yet, go check it out. It's really

cool to see our guests in person. I think even for this one, yeah, you're gonna see Saida and

Michael together. They share the same camera and they're just super cute. And then the news letter,

if you haven't signed that, for that, why not? I'm working really hard on making it jam-packed

full of information, but kind of bullet point. So you don't get overloaded with information.

And if you like it, please let me know. If there are things that you don't like about it, please let

me know. I'd really appreciate that. And the last thing is the biohiking menopause membership group.

Join us. We're waiting for you there. We get our sixologists, Saida and Aaron. They come on for

live Q&As and we have all of our guests are invited for live Q&As. This is a 60-minute session

just for you. So you're gonna ask your questions. It's one of the best perks of the membership. Aside

from that, we've got wonderful women who are into biohiking menopause. They've got such great

tips themselves and it's such a wonderful support group. So I'll have a link to that in the

show notes if you want to join us there. So now let's start the show. All right. Well, it's a real

pleasure to have on again, Dr. Saida Dizzy Leigh. And now, her partner, Aaron Michael, welcome to the

show. I'm so excited actually to meet Aaron. Actually, you guys, it's funny to see you in person

live. He's kind of like, you're my sex coaches. I see you in this program that you guys created

together called 999. So it's almost like I know you guys together. But I've always had a couple

of conversations with Saida already. So it's really exciting for me to have Aaron on and I have

questions for you. But before we unpack my experience, my journey through some of your programs,

I'd like to rewind a little bit and I want to know how the two of you first connected

and what made you say this program needs to exist? In terms of connecting, interestingly enough,

it had been a student of hers had been working with me for about three days in Holland,

getting some personal coaching. And she's like, there is somebody you absolutely have to meet

because I had shown her my book had mentioned her name in the book. And then she put us in touch.

Yep. And after that, we started doing, I brought Aaron on a project and we started collaborating

and noticing each other as genius. So professionally, we connected first and worked together quite a bit,

created a lot of different things for different apps, different programs, different businesses.

And then finally, we're like, let's do stuff for Aaron actually in the beginning. And then we

started co-creating together. So it was really awesome. Yep. And then after that, we sort of discovered,

you know what? Maybe there might be something here besides just the professional relationship.

And so we called it a creation ship because it's not just about relating, we create together.

A creation ship. I love that. So you guys had your own programs, your own businesses in related

to relationships and sex and issues revolving around it. And then you continue to get together.

And I do, you do have the embodied love universities, that what it's called?

Okay. Yeah. We love university. It's such a great name. And you have all these programs.

So there's so many, wow, we're even stirred. There's something for everyone. And we've touched on

so many things already with Saida. But when I talked to her, I said, look, which program would be best

for me? And that's when you recommended the nine naughty nights program. Because essentially,

we had made programs for solo practices programs to kind of focus on the partner. And then we just kind

of went, you know what? We don't have a program. And there aren't any programs out there on

actual intercourse and how people can have mutual pleasure. And so then that's where nine naughty

nights or nine dates was birthed. Yes. And in the creation of that program, we were approached by a

medical doctor who's a kid, you please do a medical protocol on penetration. There's so many issues.

So we actually did a study and that study was published last year. A medical journal really showing

incredible results of people doing these simple practices. It's a great idea because I do interview a

lot of put in quotes, sex parts. And everyone's got their own niche or dealing with trauma or dealing

with long term marriages or recent divorce. So everybody's got their thing. But what you guys have

created, it's really unique. And I haven't found, I mean, maybe there exists other things I don't

know, but I haven't fallen upon anything like this. And I did something that I was thinking,

yeah, this is a good fit for me. He's almost like, I tell my husband, I said, we're going to

sex school. Like, we got to learn how to do sex. Like, I don't know if we've been doing it right.

I thought that we've been doing it right. But it's like after 30 years of marriage, you're like,

God, let's just spice things up. It's not like I had the trauma, at least that I'm aware of,

or anything like that. So this is a really great fit. And I think it's a really good fit for anyone

who's been in a long term relationship, whether it's 30 years or maybe even three years, it's

can probably get stale after a while. And you need to understand the biomechanics of sex.

And how to connect with your partner, because sometimes we're just all in our head. And it's just

us. And I think we part of the beauty of having a sexual relationship is having that connection or

that intimacy. It's not just penetration. And let's just get this over with. I mean, it shouldn't

be like that in my opinion. I wanted to be fun and exciting and new and fresh. And this is what

what you've you've created. So I can speak to anyone who has questions about this program.

You can talk to me and I give you my opinion, but you do have a lot. And I encourage people to go to

your website and look at all the different things, because everyone's got something different.

But the program that you created, the nine, ninety nights, something really unexpected came up

for me. And and and I was really enthusiastic. I was totally curious. My husband came on board

because I asked him to, but he wasn't really excited about it. And in our last episode with

Saida, you pointed out that that this can land on like he can be interpreting this as, oh,

you're just not good enough and our lovemaking needs fixing or even when it's that really wasn't

the intention. And I'm glad you pointed that out because I would have never thought of that.

And I would like to know Aaron from a man's perspective, what might be happening internally when

a woman dives into some sort of growth-oriented intimacy program. And her partner feels hesitant

or flat. What's your take on it? I mean, I completely agree with what she said. I mean, in terms

of there's kind of two general things that I notice. And it's somewhere between anxiety and

surprise. Especially if there hasn't been a lot of communication around this being a struggle,

then if it's not broke, why fix it? And then that can either land as anxiety, which is like,

oh, is there something wrong with me? Or surprise, which is, I didn't know this was going on for how

long has this been going on? What is it exactly that's going on? Which then leads to a lot of these

questions. And frankly, whoever is the one that's typically introducing this to the other partner,

the other partner a lot of times may have that reaction. What I've noticed, however, is that

a partner who is invited into the possibility of more as an adventure, as a curiosity,

it's, hey, things are great. I want to explore this. Or I've actually been struggling with

some pain and numbness. It's not your fault. It's just something that's happening with my body.

And I believe there's some ways that we address it. Could we turn this into an adventure

together? Then it becomes an invitation of possibility, which helps the initial reaction of anxiety

or a negative surprise instead of turns into, oh, wait, you're wanting to have some dates with me

where we can connect more, have more sex. All right. I mean, a lot of men are like, I'm down for that.

Yeah. I'm so glad I have you guys as my sex coaches, because I was so selfish. I feel like,

oh, it's so selfish. Like I didn't even think about what he's thinking about. And it's this

menopause phase as well. In general, it's, I feel empowered. I'm like, yeah, let's do something new.

Let's have a have a different voice. I think a lot of women can relate to this going through menopause,

the laws of the laws of hormones. You become, I don't know, it's more that it's my turn kind of

thing because many of us, not all of us have been serving or giving or taking care of families

or raising things or making money in the household, whatever it is that your role is. And then

you kind of go, well, now is a time for me. And it can be selfish, but at the same time when you're

dealing with couples here, I am like being totally selfish. Like, it's my turn, honey. Let's do it my way.

We've been doing it your way for 30 years. And he's surprised. Like, wait a second. Like you said,

is there something wrong with it? It was fine. Like, everything was great. But perhaps internally

over the years, I've been like, all right, let's just do this. You know, it's it's the way we've

been doing all the time and it's fine. But without that pleasure that perhaps I used to feel,

and this is where I'm going, I'm going, wait a second. When I hear other people talking about sex

and how mind-blowing it is and how great it can be in menopause. And this, I'm like, wait, we,

I want to eat what she's eating. Give it to me. So this is why I'm having so many

sex parts on because I think we do have different challenges and different, different needs,

but I do think that this period of life is about empowerment. But yet, I also don't want to

cross the line and be like, it's all about me now. Forget about you. This is a joint experience.

So I appreciate you being very open and explaining things to me too, because my poor husband is

probably feeling like really down in certain things. So he didn't want to quite, I turned my phone

on, do not disturb. And oh, it's because my son. So anyways, where was I? The

the 9.99s, okay. So I want to talk a little bit more about this program. But before we do,

I want to ask, I want to pick Aaron's brain a little bit more now that we have him here. So because

you work with men and you work with couples around the world, you're helping them understand

intimacy through the body, not just the mind. And you're also dealing with people in midlife

and their relationships. So I have to ask you, if you had to name one thing that women

commonly misunderstand about men's sexual desire, their appetite and performance in midlife,

what would that be? I'll start with one, but it could easily give you a time of the top three.

But I would say the first one though, that we actually was most surprising when we're teaching

workshops. And we're teaching people how to coordinate hips and all this. And then the 9.99s

will even recommend sometimes that people reverse roles. And the reason why is because women will

notoriously, when they're kind of in the thrusting hip movement position, they start acting like

guys, meaning they just start moving really fast, like, whoa, whoa, you need to slow down. And then

the second thing they say is, this is really hard. This is a lot of work. And so the number one

thing that women misunderstand a lot of times for the men is that it's not easy. There's a lot of

expectations of get it up, keep it up, and not for too long, because then you need to come when

you know, things are done. And then that's it. And there can be pressure on any one of those three.

That would be, that would probably be the number one misconception, I would say. The second one

is that guys want to have sex all the time, especially, that's not true. Especially as we get older,

and let's say if our physical health isn't in the best of condition, then we can have a lot of,

and this is the number one thing affecting men. And it's not just men over 40, it's men under 40

as well is performance anxiety dealing with the psychological side of things. So that would be the

second one. Yeah, we always think it's so easy. It's a natural, inborn thing, and you're programmed

for that. And so it's easy to get it up. It's easy to keep it up. And maybe it's hard to control

orgasm. I think that's quite universal. We believe this sort of stereotype. But what you're saying is

that it's not always the case. And it's not, it's just a stereotype. And then the third one I would

say is that men are selfish lovers. A lot of men deeply, deeply want to serve their partner.

And this kind of ties back to the first question, which is there's a common dynamic that goes off

between men and women. Most men think that they are giving pleasure to their partner. It means that

they're doing something for their partner's pleasure. However, most women are actually allowing

their partner, which means that they are not doing something, but for their partner's pleasure.

Let me explain that again. A lot of times, a guy will think that he's doing something for the

partner's pleasure, which would mean that then she's kind of receiving that pleasure. However,

as you stated, maybe she's not communicating and something inside is going, this doesn't really

feel so great. So I'm going to allow him to do his thing, because he can then enjoy the pleasure.

And that creates a big miscommunication. So that way, when finally the person goes,

Hey, I'm rediscovering my body. Let's try something else. It actually hasn't worked for a long time.

That's when then you have the anxiety and the surprise that popped in. Oh my god, you're so right.

That's true. Actually, I can totally see that happening. Yeah, because both people are thinking

they're giving pleasure to the other. When in fact, they may not be, but if there's no communication

and saying, Hey, that doesn't feel so good, or I feel nothing, or let's try something new,

which we don't do that. I don't know if the new generation is like that, but my generation is

very, I guess you see people's eyes. You get their body language and you try to read the other,

but I think as we know the thoughts in your head or not can't be read by the other person all the

time. One thing that I loved about meeting Aaron on a personal level is he's the first partner

I've had where he's a sex nerd. He just wants to know what was that experience like.

And so the typical answer to me, oh, it's great. He's like, no, no, I want details. Like,

you know, what were the textures? What are the sensations? Did you notice this moment?

What about that moment? I'm like, what are you two? You're weird. You know, it was weird first.

Who asked that? It was weird because it was so detailed and specific. Now I'm used to it,

and I love it. In fact, sometimes I'm the one asking the question, but what's been lovely

and how we coach couples is we do need to have a conversation. If you make someone a meal and you're

like, yeah, it was good. It's like, what did you like about it? I like this part, but this part

was a little bit weird. Yeah, I thought it was weird too. And then you can make adjustments and

make it better the next time. So it's part of the discovery process. And we are different day to day

and different times of the day. So by giving feedback, it's really important, especially for female

bodies, maybe I'm fine, especially during this paramedic and posse menopause, maybe I'm fine,

then one day I'm like, owie, that doesn't feel nice. For whatever reason, maybe I had tension and

stress that day. So if I can communicate that not just after, but even during, and he then can

adapt what he's doing because he's getting information, now it feels good to me. Now I'm opening

my body. Now I'm suddenly more juicy because I communicated the this is a very important skill

that isn't taught in schools. It's not taught to porn. It's not taught to sexual education.

So we do need to have a lot better reveal of our experiences together.

And if I could add a point to that as well to kind of play off of that is, I mean, if you go to

a wine tasting, the Somalia asks you all these questions, did you catch this note? Did you catch that

note? And what at first you're like, I don't know if I tasted the wet stone from the west side of

the mountain, you know, when the sun is rising or not. But after time, guess what? Your palate

developed. So by having these discussions, you develop more interceptive awareness. The more you

start to feel yourself from the inside, the sensations start to grow because you're paying attention

to them. Okay, that makes sense to me. And that actually there is a question that I had for

sayida because in the program you guys talk about the giver and the receiver and how the receiver

can really dramatically increase pleasure by just moving the hips or the pelvis around different

angles and say to you, when you describe your own experience and you guys are talking about this,

it sounds so rich. It sounds so orgasmic. So I've been like exploring this like my moving my

hips and trying different angles, but my sensations are more subtle. So so the question was, okay,

am I doing something wrong or is sayida just more sensitive, but it sounds like what you're saying,

Aaron, is that as you talk about it and as you explore, then you become more more sensitive to

the sensations. Is that right? Yeah, I think about it. Like your brain doesn't like to waste energy.

So it will give a general feel of all your body and specific feels to areas that you pay attention

to more. So if you're always paying attention to the bicep, you're going to have way more

sensitivity and somatic awareness of your arm. But the genitals in general people don't spend a lot

of time really exploring and mapping out each little millimeter. So the brain has a general

real estate there. As soon as you start, so for this is why Awakened Essential Woman members,

or we talked about that another program, why that program so important for women is that ability

to spend time with your own body touching and breathing and moving differently increases that

real estate. So the brain goes from generalized awareness to very specific awareness,

your introspective awareness, the ability to feel from the inside increases dramatically and

that increases your ability. Well, now you're feeling more more sensation. And so now I can follow

my pleasure because I feel it more. And that's when the hip movements and the angle adjustment makes

sense because I'm actually tracking and following and being led by the sensations that are moving

through the body. And this just takes practice. You're not broken. I'm not special. I've just devoted

many decades actually to this part of my body and exploring it because I love so much the experience

of great sex. And so it's been important to me. It's not important to everyone. But if you make

it important no matter what stage of life, I have literally seen women who cannot have sex like no

intercourse for over a decade, reclaim their volas or vaginas and their, I mean their husbands

write me and thank me and like, oh my gosh, I'm having incredible sex. But the woman is as well.

She is feeling she's generating some of her greatest orgasms much later. I'm talking women

in their 60s and 70s. So that's exciting to me because now we look at the nervous system

and our capacity doesn't have an age limit. It has an attention limit. So if you don't attend to it,

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Okay, so let's get practical here then. So I'm thinking probably the more you explore yourself or

the more you give slight touch, I want to understand how to do this on the fastest way possible.

Because if I'm thinking I'm only having sex once a week, maybe twice, then I don't give myself

enough time. So should I daily be doing some touch by myself? Just some, I don't want to call

a masturbation, but just exploration, I guess, with different touches. How can a woman who's maybe

like me going, okay, I'm not going to maybe she has sex once a month or like it's not going to

happen very soon. I imagine if you don't give it attention in time. So what does it look like on a

practical day by day or week by week practice? It's very, very important to understand how we are

conditioned. If we are not conditioned to notice pleasure, we will notice it less and less.

We start to condition ourselves to notice pleasure, we'll notice it more and more. It's just how

the nervous system is. So that's what I said earlier. So you get. Like when you buy a white car,

you see all of the red cars. So a daily practice, and I like to call it self loving,

it's just put in a little love and it doesn't always have the goal of orgasm. It has the goal of

hey, I am I. Just some connection and that generates more oxytocin. Just the ability to touch

ourselves in a loving way. We need and want more oxytocin. It makes us have more plasticity,

which means we can reinvent ourselves better and better. So oxytocin self-touch every day.

And then the specificity of engaging with our genitals, the discovery is extraordinary and that

will not happen once a month. So if we just do a little bit every day as a little, let me just

touch here and breathe. Even if it's just a few moments, I think Aaron maybe can take us through

something. But just that attention, that care and bringing your awareness, bringing your breath,

actually sensing not just your finger sensing the body, but the body sensing the finger. This

back and forth develops an extraordinary interceptive awareness, which we absolutely need even especially

in partnered experiences. That way we can increase the shared pleasure. So I'd imagine

probably the easiest way what I'm thinking about for myself. I like to anchor habits. If I say,

okay, I'm going to do this every day. Well, then probably when you're in the shower or putting lotion

on your body, and it's not just the genitals, I guess it's also the breast or anywhere you may feel

sensitive and pleasure. Maybe for some people's the back of the neck. I don't know if you guys know

this, but I would say that's probably an easy way to go about it and just spend a minute or two

every day. I like doing things every day because if I say I'm going to do it three times a week or

once a week, I'm just not going to happen. So I usually want to give people protocols. I'm like,

just do it every day, even if it's just a little bit. So if everybody did, like, say one minute

of exploration, self pleasure per day, trying different things over time. I guess it would happen

much more quickly where you'd be able to be more sensitized. That's what I'm looking for. I like,

I want to be with somebody just barely touches me and I'm like, oh, that just feels so good.

And that's what I think would be interesting to get. And I think that's what you're saying is.

The way in which we encourage people to self-practice is state of relaxed arousal which we've spoken

about before. And I want to just make it very clear that if a woman has had a lot of difficulties,

sometimes arousal can feel scary. So relaxed arousal is a lovely way for her body to feel safe

in exploring herself. So it's just a really sweet way where you first allow yourself to connect with

your body through breath and going, okay, I'm actually going to touch. Would you love to receive

touch literally asking whatever body part in learning that practice of asking permission?

Because so many of us have not had that. Asked of us and we've had a lot of violations. So

in the rewiring of the self-care, touching with permission. And then with that permission,

the body is like, oh, yeah, the party is on. Once she understands that this is fun, it's safe.

I don't have to do anything. I don't have to be a certain way. I'm just receiving this

yumminess from myself. Then you're starting to condition the body towards being curious about

pleasure and sensation. And that's the direction why daily practice is so vital.

I want to ask Aaron because you mentioned orgasm and I would like to hear from the guy's perspectives.

I think when you have intercourse, the I'm out again, this is me projecting my thoughts on him.

What does a man really think? I'm thinking he's looking for orgasm. He's trying to give her pleasure.

He's waiting for her to have orgasm. So I have a lot of pressure. I'm like, okay, I don't want him

to wait so long. And let's just try to, you know, let it happen. But that's a lot of pressure.

So lightly, I've just been like, just, you know, relax, like just it'll happen, but not have

that pressure. But is the end goal in a man's mind? Let's get her to orgasm. And if she doesn't,

what's he thinking? A lot of times, yes. A lot of times, the guy's thinking, if I do not give my

partner an orgasm, then I have failed in my male duties. And that puts a lot of pressure

on both partners, frankly. And it's not the recipe for things going well. The other one,

actually, in my book I wrote about, I call it the race and chase, which is where you have two

partners trying to get their orgasm first, because they know once one gets their orgasm,

then it's kind of over. So whoever gets it first. And then they kind of go, well, maybe once in a

while the stars are all lining, we can both have it at the same time. But this is really a model

of this, like a predominantly sympathetic orgasm where you have your arousal phase, you then end up

getting to climax. And then after that, everything drops off and you're normally like, I'm overstimulated,

okay, let's stop. What's I just speaking about with relaxed arousal and what we're actually showing

in 90 nights is how you can start to have the state where you have orgasms in a predominantly

parasympathetic state. Now, this sort of flies in the face of what the entire industry is saying

about orgasm. Not to be able to do this, there is a very specific way that you can start to breathe.

So if you wanted to have a practice that would be there with you every day, as opposed to just,

okay, in the morning, I'm going to touch myself this way, which, please, do that is to actually

start with changing the way we breathe, which ironically is the way that we were born breathing,

but have trained ourselves out of. How do we breathe? How was the breathing?

You're dangling that carrot in front of Zora. Well, I'm glad you asked.

Well, let's do it this way. What is a woman typically told to do in terms of exercises to be able

to have a strong pelvic floor? Oh, well, like the kegels and the colleagues pulling up and

yeah. Precisely. Also, what are women told when it comes to creating more sensation or what is

a good vagina? And I'm talking, I say vagina specifically because we're talking internally,

they're told that it should be tight precisely. And also, you squeeze for pleasure.

When you're in the sympathetic state, when you go into fight, flight, or freeze,

everything also tightens up. So if there has been any trauma as well,

if you're always going to that squeeze, then that kind of arousal in terms of from the body's

perspective is very similar. So that is going to then bring you to a place of, frankly,

either back towards that trauma or even just having that squeeze is going to create tension.

But on top of it, what are we told in terms of how we should walk around in the world?

We need to pull our stomachs in, we need to have the bikini body. Frankly, just here where we're

sitting, our butts rolled forwards, our shoulders are kind of down. So everything is already squeezed

and pulled up. And as we walk through the world this way, we've trained ourselves to do that.

So actually, when we were children, we breathe very differently. And if you ask any pelvic floor

specialists worth their degree, they will tell you that natural breathing is that when you inhale,

not only does the diaphragm lower so that your lungs can expand, but also the pelvic floor is

gently going to lower. And then as you exhale, it will relax. So this is literally the opposite way

that we are breathing. So there's a whole other system that we can access in order to start to train

our bodies to experience different states of pleasure. And this has a completely different effect

on the anatomy as we understand it as a system of pleasure, not just reproduction. And if you want,

of course, they can take you through how to do that breathing practice because it's quite simple.

Okay, let's do it.

So we call it the inhale push. What you're going to do is because we need to train ourselves,

I'm going to break it down into steps, but then we're going to put it together very smoothly.

And sometimes this can take a little bit of time to learn just like riding a bicycle because

we've trained ourselves to do the opposite for so long. So the very first thing is we'll start off

with for those who don't know where their pelvic floor is. And frankly, this works for guys. There's

a whole ton of benefits for them as well. If you were to squeeze your pelvic floor muscles as

if you're trying to stop your urinary stream, this is what would be called a typical cagle,

for instance, and then release that. Now imagine if you wanted to gently increase your urinary

stream. You would then generally push out the pelvic floor. If you had a mirror or if you were to

then cup your hand over the vulva or even just over the pranium, you'd notice that there'd be a

gentle expansion. If you don't feel that, a lot of times it's because there's a lot of tension

there. So this will start to increase over time the ability to have it actually just expand out

naturally. Now the key to this, so that it's not just a reverse cagle, is connecting this to

your entire breathing apparatus as well as then the body mechanics that you have. So the next

thing I'd like you to do is let's go ahead and take your hands and just place them up here on

your chest. So if you take a deep breath and you feel how your chest expands into your hand,

and then exhale, if you're to take your hand now and bring it to your lower belly between your

pubic bone and your belly button and take a breath and allow it to actually expand out into your

hands. Literally the opposite of what you do for the perfect bikini body. Do you feel that expand

out? Yeah. And then relax. Now this next one's a little bit trickier. We're going to bring that

breath even deeper all the way to the pelvic floor. Gently push out your pelvic floor and now

breathe into your belly pushing out your hand. Let's see if you can get that breath to expand the

pelvic floor even further. I just put your hand also on your vulva and see it can help. Yeah.

So this would be something you'd take a mirror for instance or I mean some people all literally

tell them go ahead, make a little private video for yourself with your mobile phone, watch it,

do this and then notice in a week how much more the change happens. Placing your hand and feeling that

is also going to be a really big help to it so you get the visual but also then the biofeedback.

And as you do this the last part is if you were to hold the push, take a deep inhale and rock your

backwards. You're sticking your belly out. Your belly goes forward and you feel there's now more

space to do that. Yeah. And then if you exhale then you relax. Most of us though of course if we're

sitting like this now you don't have access if you were to try that you can't do it as easily.

If you remember in 999s remember how we're having to do all of those hip movements.

So this same breath directly translates into the bedroom and what it does internally is it

brings all of those deeper erogenous zones towards the entrance and you literally will be able to

then suction onto your partner and when you relax bring them in. So this does two things. It

one lowers those erogenous zones but also brings a lot of blood flow to the area and you need more

blood flow to the erectile tissues to have oxygen which is then going to allow for the nerves to

fire off and register pleasure. The third thing it does it actually allows you to then be bringing

in the partner. Most of us are going to tense on the receiving side because something happens

too quickly. This empowers the receiver to become active. Yeah I remember that lesson and I'm

wondering then how do we know that like you said it's like this suction like the bringing it in

and I I don't know how to do that. Like how do we know? Do I have to ask my partner like do you feel

mean like you can? It's different than pickles like just pushing and pulling. You will know by

doing using your own finger first. The finger your fingers are incredible biofeedback. I mean if

you start really using your fingers as a tool to resensitize and activate this whole pleasure

structure. You're going to be amazed at not only like what you're feeling your body doing. You'll

learn a lot faster as well because you're getting direct feedback but at some point you'll even feel

the current that is generated in an awakened vulva. It feels like an electric current going up

your hand up your arm and it's really lovely and it does translate into the shared experience.

So we kind of like charge each other's up with that level of training. So it starts

first get really comfortable just and if you don't want to go inside right away fine but there

are stages to the learning process. Eventually though you will feel like when you yon open the vagina

that's what it's yawning open just by doing the mechanics that Aaron shared and then when you

relax it has a natural feeling that it does. So you practice that alone first and then you can

practice it with your husband's finger and then you try the penis. There's stages where you're

like I'm just biomechanically learning something new and I'd love do you can you notice anything

and if he says no you're like oh well I'm feeling something but it's layers of learning together

and they may be he will because at some point usually lovers will say your vagina feels like a

hungry mouth. Sucking it all in. It reminds me a lot about I interviewed Kim Vopni and

I'm sure if you know her the vagina coach and she's all about pelvic floor health and she's a

pelvic floor specialist and so she explained to me and I loved her program buffum off I'm you know

plugging this because I think it's so great it's such a good program and what she does teach you

is is exactly that suction instead of doing kegels she says imagine a blueberry on the floor and

then you're picking it up with your vagina or a straw and you're sipping from the straw so it's

a really different idea than just squeezing and and when I asked her how do I know from doing

right she's just like you you stick your finger in there and you either get a pelvic floor

specialist to tell you or you put your finger in there or your partner's finger or eventually your

partner's you can ask me you can figure that out and and yeah I think it's the same it's the same

idea right one thing I would say to distinguish it because most people are going to be getting

that pulling up by then again squeezing and then also like drawing up this is actually imagine

what you do with your mouth if you were to bring a finger in you would as opposed to going this way

and then pulling it in just by reaching your lips out then when you relax it's going to come in

so that when you're eating yeah the makes sense and the difference is because what happens with

the internal anatomy is if you squeeze and pull up the cervix and everything pulls away if you

were to read for instance a sherry instance book on the anatomy of pleasure the section

page 132 there is section where it's describing female orgasm as the vagina elongates the cervix

removes itself at a comfortable distance in order to avoid the battering penis and to make

a sperm receptacle well this is actually when you're going into a relaxed arousal state that

opens up these more almost psychedelic like trans states of like prolonged orgasm the cervix

instead is coming down and joining to meet the head of the penis and if you're actually

to look at the cervix it looks very much like a head of a penis ask the gynecologist for instance

but those two join and there's a lot of beautiful magic that starts to happen as everything

begins to sensitize and you create then as opposed to pushing into each other you play with the

suction seal that is there we don't go into a ton of the body mechanics in nine naughty nights because

we want to keep it simple by disintroducing one little thing and then have people start to follow

that experience will start to grow over time and these things happen naturally which helps to

avoid with the anxiety that we spoke of earlier of getting overwhelmed yes exactly small steps super

interesting so the nine naughty nights I want to go back to this my big big big take away because I

I'm only done seven I'm so bad that this program for months some couples like they'll take a year

to do all nine days so don't worry they just love the one thing and they play around one or two

or three and then one day they'll add another one there's no rules okay to to the experience but

I think you will enjoy all of the dates when you get through them all well after going through seven

of them my big takeaway is kind of that that sort of jackhammer style sex in an penetrative sex

grinding is out okay I think we've hopefully the women who've listened to all my sex parts we kind

of realize okay that's not working for us anymore and now we want flow we want movement we want

this rhythm and that's very much in and and when my husband watched that first night with with me

he noticed that I reinforced it and our sex life is better thanks to you guys for showing me that

because I just wouldn't know how to do that but the reality is like I noted well my husband's no

dancer he doesn't tango or salsa and I even even do a shimmy Aaron when you're you're a man

that you can do all of this and you've got this like dancing gene but my husband doesn't have it

I would love for him to have that because it's the rhythm this rhythm and and how do I get my

husband to do that if it's not natural for him I have to admit something this is a little bit

you could say vulnerable for me I don't know that my first girlfriend when I was in Costa Rica

she was half American half Costa Rican grew up doing salsa to me salsa is what you put on chips

so I had no clue about this and I literally remember her wanting to go and teach me how to dance

this is so this is embarrassing we're sitting in the back seat of the taxi she's having the taxi

driver who's witnessing all this of course with the gringo which is what they call the Americans

in Costa Rica change it to a station that has some salsa and she's all right Aaron we're now going

to like just tap out one two three one two three so this idea that the dancing gene is in me is

that's a myth okay that's good I literally like trying to just figure out how to tap and do

these things now the beauty of this is because you said your husband's not a dancer your sex light

improved so that is evidence that you don't need to be a dancer and I would add an addition to this

I've talked to plenty of clients who've been with dancers that do not translate into the bedroom

we typically think of sex being a performance and even this kind of like big movements and all

of this kind of like beauty like and you will even see on Instagram all it and I continually critique

that because the truth is when these kind of attunements happening because the skill that you're

developing is that ability to connect and the ability to feel your partner there's a lot of

micro movements and it's your ability to sense your partner more than to do the perfect swivel and

hips and everything else because then you could just be off in your own mind you might as well be

in front of a mirror but can you do the partner's body and someone watching it from the outside they

actually might not really be able to see what happens because just the tiniest little bit of

movement generates a ton of sensation on the inside I mean a lot of times a little more stimulating

themselves they're also not doing these big gigantic things it can be the subtleties so

this then translates for a guy to be able to go okay I'm just going to be able to move my hips

just a little bit and it gets broken down so all of us who aren't rhythmically gifted and the

inhale push that we shared earlier is the first step to that if he can just breathe with his pelvic floor

there's already micro movements that will be translated through the penis so maybe there's not

a lot of hip movement he's inside but he breathes that that inhale push there's movement so it's a

really beautiful skill once men really understand how to do that's why yeah that it's a male program

is so great and it really does improve men's experience of sex but it also improves it for the

female even though the focus isn't on the female I think the beauty gets what gets discovered

is that because both of you are learning that inhale push learning to move your hips in the same

way you're like oh my goodness our bodies are meant to complement one another and that breaks

another big myth which is men and women are opposites in terms of their pleasure when our bodies

are shut down and we have numbness and pain very much we do end up on the opposite end of the

spectrum but as we open up towards each other we start to find out that our bodies have way more

similarities than they do differences and then our bodies will complement and supplement one

another sensations so you have the what's this program called for the men I want to know yeah

yeah fat to play on words the way on words because there's a huge movement called no fat

fat is just the sound of a man masturbating we Aaron was like trying to figure it out at this

time I was like I mean I'm a linguist I'm like okay FAP it's some kind of acronym it's just fat

fat fat it's a sound it's not on a pier which is a horrible one but there's so there's a whole

movement called no fat trying to help men like get off of porn there's a lot of stuff going on

with with that so Aaron as a tongue in cheek said no actually it's not about stopping your

masturbation practice it's about actually self-pleasuring and really activating pleasure with your own

body so yeah using yourself pleasuring as the training ground exactly correct exact so it's

incredible because it's super empowering and then there's levels to it so the guy can do it on

his own it's like one minute and then add the second minute the next day can do it on his own

it's 21 days but then you can invite the partner to join and you can then assist him in his practice

which women love they're like oh my god I can do that with my husband that's amazing and then

there's layers of the assistance as well so you can assist with your hand or your mouth or

eventually also with your vagina so it's just a really really great empowering program to allow

men to feel like they actually can feel something and it actually works both if the man has

say ejaculatory choice issues whether it's too fast or delayed it solves both of those

and for men I think for me what's been most impressive why I love it so much is within three

days they're already feeling things that they've never felt before and often they quit the program

before the 21 days because they're like this is the best ever and they're only at day five or seven

and we're like no don't quit there because there's just even more availability so we encourage them

to complete the whole thing and to actually continue with it so we're talking like six minutes of

practice over three days yeah day one is one minute eight days two minutes day three is three minutes

and then you build up to 21 minutes by the 21st day and some people will again just like nine

dates decide to take longer than 21 days they might space it out over three months just depends

that's so interesting so what I'm learning here is that there's a lot of muscles that we need to train

in order to become a bit more sensitized and focus it's like when you go to the gym and you do

when you work out you're like oh I didn't know I had muscles there they are sore so it's kind of

bringing that attention back to your body that's probably been ignored for for a while and then

training it to have more pleasure which I think is pretty cool yeah it'll be one of the factors

yes biomechanics interesting okay I had something else my mom and I forgot it I'm gonna move

well it'll come back to me but I think we're gonna have to wind up now but I just you guys are so

interesting I love having a man here and then I can openly ask these questions what's going through

a man's head so Aaron then what would you say to a woman who's in midlife who is recently divorced

she's feeling rusty or vulnerable she's anxious about her first sexual encounter after

probably a long break what advice do you have for her my number one advice would be to again

rediscover herself and what I specifically mean is it's not just masturbation it's not just

feeling oneself but starting to actually resensitize this also plays with again the inhale push when

you're doing this inhale push what you're doing is you're actually allowing the body to choose

how much pressure it wants so first is in order to begin to feel yourself start to explore feel

for where there's numbness feel for where there's even pain feel for where there's pleasure

and then where you have numbness understand that a lot of times it's because that area has received

a certain amount of pain the body has kind of created a buffer towards that which then creates numbness

I believe the greatest thing that is sort of plaguing society is not actually pain it's numbness

and by the definition of numbness we don't know it because we can't feel it and the second that

numbness starts to awaken it can feel like pain so what you're going to do is using the touch

of simply making contact to the area as opposed to pushing into it allow your body to the inhale push

and breathe and then relax there's a lot more layers we could add to it but just that stay with

it and notice how some of the places that have the greatest pain or feel nothing actually end up

becoming the some of the most sensitive and strongest erogenous zones that burst into

whole other layers of pleasure and this is different than your normal advice to start to masturbate

because what you're going to do is you're going to learn your body you're going to know how to

navigate painful or numb situations you're going to be able to speak up during that and this

develops a sexual confidence in yourself that then you can communicate towards a partner to

guide them towards what you want not just what you don't want most of us are going to say

who that hurts I don't want that but then neither party knows how to get towards something

this gives you the knowledge to then transfer it to a partner towards what you do want and what you

need that's great yeah because I bet when you're counting the first time a new partner I mean

it's been 30 years for me I don't even know what that's like anymore but I want to speak for the

women who do you have that I can imagine how nervous you may be it's daunting so I'm wondering

what is going through a man's head he's probably just as nervous as she is if he's also worried

about performance and things like that like we don't know what's going on through his head but I was

thinking maybe if we if we understood that he's also nervous or even if he doesn't show it maybe

he's not I don't know that it helps her as well go okay it's not just it's not just me I think

a really important thing that's to understand also that the throat is the vagina of the cranium

it's using your voice and speaking your truth is the lube that really can create what we really

would love and so for me my my invitation for women who are reclaiming their sexual life and

wanting to have this adventure is be honest and if the person can't receive your truth in that moment

it's a no go we're at a stage of life now where it's like no more BS so hey I'm really nervous

I haven't made love in a long time I do it to myself yes but I'm a little nervous I'm not sure

how it's going to be would you be willing to have more of a sensual touch experience with me first

just can kind of relax about even being close to another person's body is that something you

be open to you can design it any way you want it doesn't have to look like traditional sex where

it's awkward and suddenly you're in the dark shuffling trying to find to put something and

something you know it's like this awkward it could be really beautiful you can slow it all the way

down we are actually in control ladies we can create what we would love and it is through using

your voice but it is also translating that self love practice you're going to be doing every day

even if it's just a few minutes a day translating that into a partnered experience and if the

person isn't willing and receptive you don't have access to this temple if they are willing

and receptive how cool is that now I have a playmate where we can explore together and I can say

we're going to need to slow down or I'm really liking that let's go in that direction and it just

makes actually a more easy firm and when you're getting some feedback as to what to do with this

new partner it's really important to know that until your know can be fully celebrated you can

never give a tree yes what do you mean if we are used to not feeling comfortable saying no because

it might actually turn off our partner then we always are going to be trying to do something for

them so we can't actually identify then well what is it do that I actually want because we're still

hung up on well we need to actually please the other person and the trick about this though is

it's the same with ourselves a lot of times we will override our own selves to get that orgasm

which is why if we're doing masturbation just to have an orgasm but this way if we were to treat

or if we were to have a partner treat us in the same way that we often treat ourselves which is

like hurry up and get to the thing we would kick them out but it's often what we do to our own

bodies so our own body isn't trusting that the nose going to be heard which is why then a lot of

times it goes into numbness it goes into this very passive frozen state so everything we're doing

about becoming an active receiver and actually being able to voice our know and to even be able

to hear our bodies know is the first steps to then getting to a place that we can get into our

yes and that first step is actually knowing okay if I say no and I just stop even with myself

because I can feel my body's not open to this then the body goes okay you're listening to me now

I will start to guide you down the path of what my yeses that makes perfect sense I got it okay my

last question I still have so many more but I want you guys are very much about at least what I've

explored and I know you probably have other programs that deal with with more the psychological side

but the program I'm doing is very physical and somatic but I'm not sure if you're familiar with

the work of psychoanalyst Michael Bader and he wrote a book called arousal and we had a great

podcast recently with him and he said that arousal is often shut down by guilt shame or fear

so our brain then creates fantasies as a workaround to keep desire alive and then just

be able to orgasm so from your experience helping men or women overcome sexual blocks do you also see

this playing out well I'll jump in and then Aaron has a lot to say on this topic as well thank you so

much for this question by the way I think it's a really important question I had a very intense

experience in my youth that almost cost me my life so in the healing journey for the years after

that there was intense fantasies that were going on my erotic mind was utilizing very graphic

violent type fantasies in order to process what had happened to me at some point it was done I

never fantasized about that so I just wanted to share that sometimes fantasies are there because

the erotic mind is wanting to heal and wanting to integrate something so not to be judgmental

they have a season they do move through once your psyche is like okay I'm satisfied that we

understand this now I also love fantasy as if I've had a really hot experience I'm going to be

thinking about it a lot so it's not always fear and shame that drives my mind that I'm actually

remembering that the way that finger or that tongue or that whatever moment was and I'll think

about it a lot throughout the day I'll expand into it or like imagine maybe something else

or a slightly different scene so it can also come very much from a pleasurable wonderful experience

and I want to keep building on that so in those ways I just wanted to bring those elements to the

answer because I don't fully believe that we only use fantasy with fear and shame and arousal as

we said the system of arousal arousal is arousal it means you are on alert it's not always fear

and shame based to wake up the body and go something is happening is healthy the sympathetic system

has a it serves a good purpose we want to be awake or not going to be asleep all of the time so

there there's a healthy aspect to that as well that we can learn through our self-pleasuring again

that relaxed arousal and then I'm going to defer to you for the next piece on the erotic mind

because I really love your thoughts on this cool one of the other ways that we actually work with

clients is using fantasy as a way to explore your erotic edge so in other words where just let's say

you have something that you'd like to try out but you're a little bit nervous about it so you're

kind of like in between when you have a conversation with your partner you can start to say I'm kind

of interested in doing this and they can give feedback on it one of the important things in that

is knowing okay again knowing that your note can be respected is that just because we talk about

it doesn't mean we're going to necessarily do it ever that opens up the possibility for yes

so then you have a conversation once you then start to have let's say a sexual experience you can

bring in erotic talk around whatever it is the fantasy so that you're sharing it with your partner

or if you and this is where I would advise for someone who's a woman like you said yourself

just starting out on her own after maybe 30 years of not being active so then she can play with

her own fantasies because when you're heightened arousal and you explore it you might notice other

things that you didn't when you're not aroused correct and then you'll start to learn oh you know

what in that scenario I didn't like that thing but I did like that thing and this could be good and

that might not be good and so all of a sudden you can do that then with a partner and you'll have a

much better understanding whether you ever tried to do it or not of what are the pieces that bring

the mental aspect because the mind is actually embodied it's when the mat when our mental or psyche

has a very different idea than their body and we have this arousal non concordance that there's

dissonance what we do is we bring those two together and essentially as opposed to the fantasy

being about a specific act act there's normally kind of like a psychological dynamic that charges

it up and there's some easy ways to discover that I know how much time we have but I could introduce

it quite quickly I know I'm hanging another carrot there oh yeah come back oh yeah we'll have to

come back then you'll have to come back you'll have to come back I actually I do have to go I do

want to continue this conversation because I have so much to say about it yeah anticipation might

be one of those you say no for you you have a lot of good anticipation right me no okay yeah and

I'm so sorry gonna have to cut you off but I gonna you guys are gonna come on again because we're

gonna continue this conversation and I want to pick up right here because I do I do have a lot

more questions and with so much to cover I think these I love these conversations and I hope

people are listening and loving it too because we don't at least I don't seem to have them very often

with my girlfriends or people I know of I'm starting to but it's just it doesn't seem to happen

very often I encourage women who are listening to please go find that girlfriend who will talk to

you about these things but it's great to have a guy on as well that I that you go okay what's

from a man's perspective what do you think because sometimes I think we could be creating stereotypes

in our head that maybe you're not true either so I like to bounce those ideas off of you guys but

before I let you go is there anything else that you want to really touch on before we wrap up

and then let us know where can people find you as well I think that because you mentioned the word

pleasure quite a few times I'd love for some people that's a trigger word so I'd love to just

invite us if pleasure doesn't work for you then what could create curiosity or ease or joy use

a different word as you're exploring oh how do I create more easeful joy in my body okay so

then you have a practice like that just I just wanted to make a note of the four of the listeners

who wear pleasures like oh that's too much of a jump for me yeah and then finding us

well finding us would be at the embodied love university and that would be the place where you

literally can just find programs that are tailored around your own self practice that's focused

on your partner or the other one which is mutual you could say pleasure or mutual sensation

mutual sensation like that so I will have links to how to find you in the show notes and I

I think people I would encourage them to get in touch with you they're a bit lost because you

do have so many programs and you have something for everyone it would be good to get in touch with

you and say which one is the best for me and we do have a code Zora for 10% off and

we also have the self love meditation I've been sharing this with my community and they like that

it's a little gift for our listeners and I have a link to that in the show notes I would also add to

that if they're looking for a personalized coaching approach that they write to you because we do

this just through referrals and then you can contact us and we'll know that this is someone that's

being referred and we can help people online or also as well as in person and this really helps

to have a bespoke tailor-made experience that really can go to that next level of asking all

the particular questions that maybe you'll ask us in the next episode I'm holding back I'm

there on the tip of my tongue I just want to reflect to you Zora how lovely it is to spend time

with you and the way that you ask questions I adore your community I just think it's what you're

doing is incredible and yeah just such a pleasure to be here and it was really sweet to have

yeah thank you for having me on site it told me so many wonderful things about you and well

they were true I'm glad we're connected we're going to have you one again and if anybody's listening

to the episode now still thank you so much for your time and spending time with us we truly

appreciate your time and if you did like this episode please reach out to me and let me know about

it if you want to have them on again if you want to explore something different if you want to

ask different questions this is for you the podcast is tailor-made for you so reach out thank you so

much for your time the two of you you're in and gila or on on a Caribbean island or the

Bahamu is the Caribbean island right the mother's it's my mother's side the family Anguela

Anguela love it so we will see you next time another part of world and everyone is listening

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