100 Objects #19: Western Electric 500 Series

0:00This episode of 100 Objects is brought to you by Anthropic, the team behind Claude. Claude is the AI for minds that don't stop at good enough. It's the collaborator that actually understands your entire workflow and thanks with you. Whether you're debugging code at midnight or strategizing your next business move, Claude extends your thinking to tackle the problems that matter. Build interactive tools and apps by describing what you need. Custom calculators, data visualization dashboards, even prototypes, all without writing a single line of code. For problems worth solving, get started with Claude at Claude.ai. That's Claude.ai. It's the 1970s and we're in the peaceful bliss of suburbia in a family home, pretty indistinguishable from any other family home. But for one curious child, it was in these four walls that there lived a precious, almost mythical object. It was in the front foyer of our house.

1:02There was a table devoted to it. This is Adam Savage. I am a former Mythbuster current YouTuber, science communicator and maker of things. And breaker of things. And breaker of things. You have to break enough things to learn how they go back together. But one of the few things Adam was never quite able to break was what sat on that table in the front foyer of his home. Picture, you know, the classic picture of a telephone in the encyclopedia, this black phone with a metal dial, letters in each hole of the dial, and a handset sitting on top. This phone was the Western Electric 500 series, and it was kind of just to end ordinary telephone. In fact, it was the ordinary telephone. So ordinary that at the time, you would have found some version of it in pretty much every home in America. So I'm a elder Gen X. Born in the late 60s, we had one telephone in our house for my entire childhood until I went to college.

2:04And Adam still remembers everything about it. Everything around the phone from the tactility of dialing into zika, zika, zika, putting your finger in the metal dial, the coldness of the dial, the fact that it kind of rang slightly as you moved it around. It was all part of this ritual of conversation. I remember really loving the dial tone, the sort of the comforting sound of the dial tone. You'll hear the dial tone. I'm one of my earliest memories is sitting there with my friend, John Masaro, and we took the phone handset off this phone, and we put a banana in its place on the phone, and then the phone rang, which we did not expect that that was possible, and the fact that the phone still operated with a banana on it was twice as funny as the funniest thing that ever happened to us. But most of Adam's memories of the phone revolved around the object's true purpose,

3:05to connect you with people who were far away. I remember having fights with my best friend in high school on that chair, talking to my girlfriend in that chair, then I felt like I could hear the whole inside of her house. Right? And it is a machine that gives me a presence in the other person's space. That's what it feels like. Like, I'm not just hearing a voice. I'm hearing the environment there in, and I'm feeling like I'm part of it. And we would talk for like two and a half hours, three hours. It wasn't unheard of to be like three, four, like you just first you hung on the phone. Yeah. And what I really remember was the feeling of immediacy of that conversation. And it didn't matter what we were talking about. It felt like we were together in the same room. It's a feeling we don't really feel anymore. The feeling of sitting on a phone line, hearing the whole inside of somebody's house, like you're actually there with them in person. I think the belt telephone 500 series is arguably the best consumer product ever built.

4:08They make 92 million of this one phone over 50 years. And for 50 years, it is the best device ever for talking to other people at a distance. And we no longer have that. This one model of telephone became ubiquitous across the continental United States for 50 years. And then it just disappeared completely. What does that say about what kind of human connection we prioritize and what we let fade away? From 99% of visible and BBC studios, this is a history of the United States and 100 objects. I'm Roman Mars. Today, the Western Electric 500 series and how one device, which was once near on the present in every single household in America, created a level of interpersonal connection and intimacy unlike any object ever had before.

5:10And why over time, we decided to give that up. A history of the telephone is really the story of how America became connected. So let's back up. Could you describe like before the phone shows up in our lives? What are we dealing with? Well, for normal people getting a message a great distance, the main thing people could use was Western Union. There were telegraphs and teletypes. The telegraph was a fairly rudimentary system that involved wires and tapping out messages in Morse code. And very quickly, Western Union realizes this technology can carry messages across an ocean at unheard of speed. The telegraph along with the trains compresses the world so quickly that it's one of the reasons we ended up with the international time. Because people were talking across great distances and it got everyone really cranky. But despite being able to send

6:11messages across the ocean, telegraphy had a pretty central flaw. You were very limited in terms of the language you could use. It was very expensive. Every word costs you money. So this is where you see those old movies where they're like, it's from London. Oh, Mr. Gower cables, you need cash. Stop. My office instructed to advance you up to $25,000. Stop. Blah blah blah blah. Stop because that was smaller word than period for communicating. Really? Yeah. Yeah. Stop is the shortest word that means period. Huh. I had no idea. This brevity was necessitated by the fact that early telegraphy cables could only carry a single message at once and time was money. A couple of that with the fact that a professional operator would need to be reading your whole message at the other end, whether it was private or not, meant that telegraphs weren't exactly conversational. You had technology helping them communicate across greater distances, but there was nothing really personal about it. So this is also a time when

7:15people were writing, like people finish their days writing, you know, half a dozen letters to people. Yeah. Yeah. In fact, the writing was really expensive. Like you get huge letters about people's days. You know, it's crazy when you read about these folks like reading Washington's letters. Like every day he finishes spending two hours just hand calligraphing, often two copies of everything. He's writing every letter twice. So he has a record. These guys were writing thousands of words a day sometimes. I get really tired thinking about how much they were hand writing. But writing the letter was a painfully slow form of communication compared to the telegraph. It would take weeks to reach somebody. And so people were trying to find a way to marry the conversational personal qualities of letters with the spontaneity and ease of the telegraph. Western Union offered $1 million to anybody who could develop a multiplex system, which will allow for multiple telegraph transmissions simultaneously. Around this time, something else emerges. Something that will threaten

8:18the domination of the telegraph. You know, the creation telephone is highly disputed. There's many claims and counterclaims about his invention. You don't say. So what is the simplest story to explain the invention of the telephone? The story we were all taught in schools that Alexander Graham Bell was working on the attempt to make him cancels way for transmitting sound, figuring out a way to transmit sound through wires. Despite many claims and counterclaims, Bell's invention would secure the pattern, meaning he was the only one who could legally make a telephone. And everybody wanted one. Well, everybody would bell himself, who famously refused to have a telephone in his own study for fear of distraction. It was a smart man. And Bell's design was both a stroke of genius and actually fairly simple. The basic mechanism I believe Bell was working with was a magnetic coil with a membrane. And using your voice to vibrate that membrane to create an electrical signal,

9:21then that gets converted into mechanical movement at the other end of the equation and converted back into sound. Yeah. Yeah. So this is an analog process where the vibrations of my voice are moving a small membrane and those movements transmit small amounts of difference of an electrical signal can then be just picked up as an analog signal on the other side and converted back into the same mechanical movement. So you hear sound. The miracle of this invention, what is absolutely amazing about it, is that the time it takes for this analog system to work is nearly instantaneous. Milliseconds, almost impossible to detect for the human ear. Now, a single telephone is a triumph of engineering, but for the invention to truly matter, you need to get as many phones out in the world as possible and connect them all via copper wires. You need to build a network. So he creates Bell Telephone. It matriculates into AT&T American Telephone and Telegraph

10:22in the early 20th century. Well, they're not exactly the same thing. People generally use Bell Telephone interchangeably with AT&T. Bell Laboratories, Western Electric, Stronglines, the local telephone company and finally AT&T, the parent company. Five parts, but known collectively as the Bell System. In reality, they're all facets of one massive telecommunications company and it is the most repatiously capitalist enterprise you could imagine. At this moment, in the early 1900s, Bell has the patent for the telephone, but it doesn't have the patent for the miles of copper cables that are required to make that phone work. And other companies realize this. They figure out they can lay down local wires and get in on the telephone boom. Bell doesn't like this. While there's nothing they can do to stop local providers connecting people, Bell does have a couple tricks up at sleep. They refuse to let these local lines interface with their national network. And they are buying up every possible competitor as they arrive because they have

11:28the monopoly and they use the money they make from their monopoly to just keep on eating more small companies that show up in the space. It's a classic, perfect model of what a monopoly does with its monopoly power. But a classic model of monopoly was also a classic target for the government to break up. The government had just broken up standard oil and the American tobacco company. And now it was starting to why AT&T. But the president of AT&T, a man named Theodore Vale, came to the government with an offer. I feel like he must have had an epiphany because round about 1913, 14, he starts reaching out to the US government and offering a non adversarial relationship. He starts saying, look, I know you guys think that we're a monopoly, but please don't break us up. Please don't subject us to any trust laws. This was the deal. They would build a telephone system. So incredibly large that it would provide every single possible American business and home with a telephone signal. And they would supply this infrastructure for universal coverage

12:32completely free of charge. But in return, they wanted a monopoly over the network. No more having to buy competitors out, no more fighting for permits to lay cables in any given neighborhood. The reason Vale, I think, gets the US government to agree is he makes the case that what AT&T needs to do is so large and so complex, it will happen faster and ultimately be better for the American public if one company is able to maintain a consistent standard across that whole network, rather than different companies having different standards of quality. And the US government agrees. It was a massive win for AT&T. But now the difficult part started. They needed to make sure every home or business in the country was connected by wire to every other home or business in the country. This becomes the thing that once you start to unpack it makes what

13:34bell telephone and AT&T did so insanely incredible. It is such a massive engineering project getting actual copper wire to every last person in the United States. That isn't an exaggeration. AT&T wanted to connect the whole country and they'd have to lay tens of millions of miles of copper cable to do it. You may have noticed that lots of work has been going on. You cable pulled into place and other types of construction. And making the telephone system was not cheap. Usually the most expensive part was connecting the last mile. The part where the wires branched off from the main cables and wound their way into individual homes. Starting in 1925 AT&T starts bell labs. Bell telephone laboratories. The largest single organization in the world devoted exclusively to communications research. And the origin of bell labs is literally just to keep on making the

14:36network better and helping to design out how to get a phone to every last mile. And before long bell labs came to a key realization. If they were going to painstakingly connect America with millions of miles of copper wire, they ought to create the perfect interface with which to use those wires. Bell labs needed to create the perfect telephone. The man who would ultimately step up to the plate was Henry Dreyfus, who started his career as a prolific designer of Broadway sets before branching out. He designs a movie theater where he puts an audience in a giant round room with four screens at the four corners of the room. And one soundtrack. They're all watching the same movie, but they're able to fit way many more people in the room with no balconies and no like obstructions that increases both the audience satisfaction

15:38and the amount of money the theater owner can make. And I love this because Henry Dreyfus really early on is considering both the rules of commerce, i.e. we've got to make some money and also the experience of the people spending the money that's going to be made. In 1929 at the age of 25, Dreyfus started his own design shop and his design philosophy was clear from the beginning. Dreyfus was saying there can be no friction between the use of a tool in its utility. Right. He wants to reduce the friction of using anything that he has building to the lowest possible common denominator. His shop designs the Honeywell thermostat. Like the default thermostat for the entire United States for decades. And this is the simplest tool there is. You turn the dial to the temperature you can see. There is there is nothing to know. But unlike the thermostat, there wasn't one perfect telephone that nearly all America used. The history of the design of

16:39the telephone is sort of a constant evolution. The first phone was the earpiece was separate than the handset. You had this like old, tiny little tube you held up to your ear while you spoke into this like tulip. And then there was a handset that put the microphone and the speaker in the same piece. But when 18T wanted to make another evolution, they didn't go directly to Dreyfus to solve the problem. So AGMT has a contest to design the 300 series phone. And they put a call out an RFP to design studios. Henry Dreyfus refuses to compete. He's like, I like to talk to the designers and they're like, that's not part of the competition. He's like, they never mind. But after that contest yields no designs they like. They just hire Henry's firm to design the 300 phone. He just waits them out. Oh, that's amazing. Like, right. For people who don't know, like the world of spec work and design is like a extremely fraught world where you have to endure all these sort of design contests and do this work for free. And the fact that he had the confidence

17:41in his own self and his own research to just wait it out is amazing. The waiting it out just blows my mind to Smith Reads. In 1937, Bell introduced the 300 series model designed by Dreyfus. He used thousands of measurements from the quote average American to determine the size and shape of the handset. And the result was pretty successful. They built millions of the series 300 phones and they learned a tremendous amount from them. They learned they needed to put the ringer inside the body because I didn't know this, but you could buy early phones where the ringer was extra. I don't even know how you would get a call. He just waits for you here, someone yelling on your door and you pick it up. So before long, Dreyfus and his shop refined the design and he came out with an updated version of 500 series. You must have been a 400 in between there, but you can just forget about that. Dreyfus's team improved the microphone, made the phone prettier, but maybe most importantly in terms of its reliability is they made it possible for the 500 series users to fix their device

18:45at home. It was also built for repairability. Nothing was attached to the body of the phone. Two screws pulled it off the chassis. Now you had access to all the electronics of the phone and it would still work and be testable so you could troubleshoot it much faster. This was the object designed to allow them to repair these things to keep them operating. And these the parts of the 500 series phone were compatible from 1949 to 1984. Oh my god. Western Electric, the hardware manufacturing division of AT&T, made over 90,500 series phones in just over 30 years. And the internal parts were almost entirely interchangeable. That meant if you bought a phone in 1950 and you broke it in 1960, the newest parts would still fit your old phone. And then if you broke it again 15 years later, the pieces on the market would still slot right in.

19:47And all of this, the interchangeability of parts, the ease of repairability, the intuitive troubleshooting were all conscious decisions made for a specific reason. Actually, maybe people don't realize this, but people didn't own those phones. Those phones were all all 92 million of those phones were the property of AT&T and they were rented to the customers. This is probably the most important fact actually. Regular Americans, Adams family, my family, your family did not own their telephones. We rented them from AT&T. And in this fact, it really changes the things that you build because they're rented. Like they do not want to make these things disposable. Western Electric bills were rugged phones and test some of them beyond endurance. The phones, your bell, telephone company, installs will never need repair. They want them to last decades because they do not want to replace them. Yes, that's the end user was not the customer. That's kind of amazing to me. It is so beefy.

20:54You can take your bell phone for granted because we don't at Western Electric, manufacturing and supply unit of the bell system. It is so sturdy that when it shows up in pop culture, it is clear that this thing is nearly indestructible. In the movie Get Shorty, Gene Hackman is a Hollywood producer who tries to front to a genuine Mofioso played by Dennis Freena who proceeds to beat the ever-living crap out of him with the handset and body of a 500 series telephone. And every blow hurts because I know how strong that thing is. You cannot break the handset. I have tried. A lot of people have. And Mr. Emosa Smith, Angelina Jolie's character, gives it a go. In American Hustle, Bradley Cooper's character gives it three goes. And in one upon a time in Hollywood, I mean, it's pretty grand. If you see it, you know what I'm talking about.

22:00The 500 series is both incredibly sturdy and it shows up everywhere. Hello Neil and Buzz. I'm talking to you by telephone from the overroom at the White House. In what might be the greatest moment of his presidency, Nixon used a touch-tone version of the 500 series to call the Apollo 11 astronauts as they walked on the moon. I shall resign the presidency effecties that noon tomorrow. And when it all came crumbling down with those telephone being bugged at Watergate, well, those were almost certainly 500 series telephones too. Chances are, if a phone call was made in the United States between 1949 and 1984, it was most likely on a 500 series telephone. All this to say, the 500 series was a gigantic success. It was such a success that they also added different variants of the bell phone to appeal to different users. AT&T released the Princess phone, a phone literally built for a teenage girl's hand. It's little, it's lovely,

23:01it likes the new Princess. And the Princess phone is the one, you know, every home in America in the 70s had a Princess phone and a curly cord that was like 25 feet long where you could get to kind of any given corner of your house for a private conversation. But everyone else was doing the limbo under this phone card that was stretched across the house. A robust, rented bell telephone was a fixture of American life for over 30 years. It was omnipresent across culture and politics and the lives of everyday people. Eventually, it was replaced. In time, everything is. The real tragedy is what we lost in the process. Let's think of a break to talk about our sponsor for today's episode Anthropic, the team behind Claude. Have you ever wished you could hand off a task to someone while you're on the go? Claude is the collaborator that actually understands your entire workflow and things with you. Integrate Claude into any part of your project, keeping you focused on solutions. As your research assistant, Claude's research capabilities are comprehensive,

24:06reliable analysis with proper citations, turning hours of research into minutes. Claude becomes your command center by connecting to your professional tools like GitHub, Gira, HubSpot, Notion, and Google Workspace. Build interactive tools and apps by describing what you need. Delegate tasks big and small with co-work so you can handle other work while Claude runs. It even has checkpoints that let's you save progress and rollback to any previous state instantly. And when all the work is done, Claude can help you create a polished document, spreadsheet, or presentation directly in your file system. No need to worry about rough drafts that need heavy editing. For problems worth solving, get started with Claude at claw.ai. That's claw.ai. By 1982, the Bell system was at the peak of its powers, but its monopoly was built on a shaky foundation. When Vale makes a deal with the US government in 1915 to like, we'll play nice if

25:11you guys let us build this thing out. He sort of gets a promissary note for them that they don't call in for seven decades. Like the idea to let AT&T do what it wants to build this network out was always a compromise and a compromise that had to come do. The government began to rethink the monopoly they had allowed Bell to run for so many years. Things had changed. The country had been connected. Bell had already done the job. AT&T fulfills every ounce of its promise to build a robust network where people can talk across the country and it feels like they're in the next room. And now that they've built the thing, they just don't need them to be that big anymore. Yeah. The government broke up the Bell system into eight different companies. The baby bells, as they recalled, controlled different regions of the US. New long distance carriers were allowed to offer service on Bell telephone lines, which was great. Long distance prices came way down. Cheap plastic phones and cordless phones could be purchased at Kmart. None of which had the post-apocalyptic

26:12reliability of the 500 series, but you could also buy a phone with a clear case so you could see the wires inside and it lit up when it rang. It was so cool. Meanwhile, and over many more years, analog was being replaced by digital and a new technology was emerging that would make having control over all that copper wire not matter so much. Cellular phones not only are becoming less expensive, they're getting smaller. One piece hand held, not car phones, street phones. Interest days left, the cell phone. Gone were the days of speaking into membranes and vibrating copper wire across an entire country. Cell phones were digital, and digital phones had a new way of doing things. In the simplest possible terms, when I speak into a phone, my voice is being broken into discrete sounds of a certain length, and the computer has a library of sounds that it describes

27:16to my voice as a code. So if I go, maybe it's got that sound stated as sound number 41, and then when I finish with a consonant like, that's sound number 43. This is grossly oversimplified, but the computer takes my voice and breaks it down into numbers that equate to the sounds that then get reassembled by those numbers by the other telephone and wrapped into a simulacrum of my voice for the other person. It is not like a audio signal is being transmitted over the wires, that takes too long. The audio signal is being encoded and then decoded. So the pioneers who made the cell phone had to make a difficult decision. Cell phone companies had a choice to make when they were first transmitting voice. They could prioritize the lack of latency or they could prioritize voice quality. Meaning should they prioritize how quickly the audio would transmit to another phone, that's the

28:17latency, or how clear the audio should sound when it gets there. That's the quality. They made the trace to go for quality, and that was literally a cost benefit analysis they made about like what the public would care more about. The delay on a call using the 500 series, which operated on the copper wire infrastructure, was virtually unnoticeable to the human ear. On a coast to coast call, the delay would only be around 25 milliseconds. But the digital cell phone is different. It takes between 150 and 250 milliseconds. 250 milliseconds is a quarter of a second. So that's 25 milliseconds for analog compared with 250 milliseconds for cell phones. Remember, the cell phone is converting voice into numbers, bouncing those numbers off a tower, and then maybe a satellite in space and then back down to earth and then another tower and converting those numbers back into sound on the receiver's phone. So if anything, it's kind of a miracle that it only takes that long, but the tradeoff is still real. When you look up the specs on phone latency today,

29:22they will say 150 milliseconds isn't really noticeable. And I would like to point out, when you're at the end of your day and you call your partner on your phone, and it's just a check and call, how was your day? It was great. What do you want for dinner? Well, I was thinking burgers. Okay, I'll pick those up. That is a really easy call to have because as a couple, you have a rhythm of how to do that kind of check in. And the back and forth is a known quantity. But try and have an argument on the cell phone where you absolutely cannot interrupt and 150 milliseconds makes an argument impossible because you are, no, okay, you go, you go, right? You are always wanting to interrupt. The interruption happens much later than you think you can't get a rhythm. And now you're both annoyed that you can't actually communicate across this thing. That 150 millisecond delay to me is deadly in terms of intimacy. And if the cell phone and digital phone calls are to be considered the killer of intimacy over long distances, then there can be only one chief suspect for the crime.

30:27The Arab parent to the 500 series. In many ways, you could argue that the iPhone has taken the place of what the 500 series was in our lives. While the iPhone is an unbelievable, unmeasurably important invention. The iPhone is amazing. Like, let's just stipulate the iPhone is amazing. The iPhone is amazing and I can't stand to have it more than 10 feet from me. That's how amazing it is. When Western Electric made the 500 series, they were manufacturing the perfect telephone that would last for decades in our home. The design brief for the iPhone is entirely different. It's really a pocket computer, camera and media player. The phone part of the iPhone may be its least important part. When Apple markets a new iPhone, they tend to brag about the camera or the storage. They don't really say that the phone is better in this new one. The one thing that we call it is the one thing that it does the poorest of its tasks, which is to be used as a phone. Today, you know, cold calling

31:34is an aggressive act. And I feel like it's an aggressive act because talking to someone you don't know with 150 to 250 seconds of latency is nontrivial. And we have to navigate more than just the social dynamics of the call. And that means that there's friction between the object and its utility. Eliminating friction between an object and its function was the driving principle behind all of trifices design. Modern cell phones abandoned this when it came to human conversation. And Adam thinks this abandonment plays a big role in why young people hate being on the phone. I used to switch survey found nearly 70% of people ages 18 to 34 prefer a text to a call. Adam has seen his own kids avoiding phone calls, but he thinks they have been replaced by something else. My kids were in high school and they would zoom or FaceTime with their high school girlfriends and they'd fall asleep next to each other. And I love this. This was the same thing as sitting

32:36they're talking on the phone for three or four hours. And he thinks the reason why they're choosing video calls is a question of intimacy. Given high enough speed internet, the latency can be pretty good, but it's the pictures that really help. Having a visual like zoom, getting social cues by someone's body language, that feels like it supplies some of the intimacy that's lost with the latency. Adam also points out another fundamental change in our phones that maybe only someone like Adam would articulate, but everyone feels it in some way. The 500 series wants you to take it apart. I think that the phone handset might be the very first machine I ever took apart because you could just unscrew these robust pieces of nylon and you saw this little microphone element and I noticed it was slipping on two commutators. And even at like eight years old when I did this, I remember thinking, oh, that is a really replaceable part. Like there's some aspect of the reason the phone was built the way it was that I sort of groked. And I don't think that's me being brilliant.

33:42I think it's about this object being so perfect. It like communicates how much energy went into making it so easy to use. The 500 series used interchangeable parts for the better part of a half century. This is because Bell made the phone to sell to itself and they just rented it to you. So they built it to last, but we're not renting an iPhone. Meaning there's an incentive for it to change an upgrade and not be robust enough to last for years and years. Every change means we need a whole new phone, which means more money for the people who make them. Even the very design of our phones disincentivizes us from opening them up at all. I'm a big proponent of the right to repair movement. Yeah. Which is really catching fire around the United States. More and more states are passing right to repair legislation, allowing people the right to open up the devices they own. We're actually at a moment culturally where we are redefining what it means to own something. And commerce

34:42would prefer a subscription model for everything. You know, it's really, there's a kind of an irony here. How much you felt intimately connected to your household phone, but you owned it less than you own anything else. But for some reason, you felt more connected or felt more like you could take it apart and unscrew the mouthpiece and look at what was inside. Absolutely. Which is why I think Adam Savage can't get over the Western Electric 500 series. It said, I can communicate across the world and you are talking to a person and it feels just like language the way you know how it works. And it did. It solved that problem. And now we have that problem again of of real communication with voice. The 500 series was the ultimate vision of drivers' ideal, the frictionless device that allowed you to talk to anyone in the world. It was a device that met you on your terms, designed to mold to your hand, to be comfortably cradled in your neck, pressed against your ear, hearing someone talk as soon as the words left their

35:48lips. It also invited you to open it up and learn how it worked. It's a vision for the objects in our life that seems to have all but disappeared. Well, except one place. The old timey ring on your iPhone, this is probably the sound of the two bells inside the 500 series telephone. Even if it's only in a small way, the memory of the 500 series survives in the very thing that left it behind. Adam Savage, thank you so much for talking with me. I had such a good time. Oh my god, this was really, really fun. Adam Savage is a science, technology and engineering communicator and former Mythbuster. If you want to see more of him, check out Adam Savage's Tested on YouTube. If you have a curious mind and love to build things, there's no better place on the internet.

36:57A history of the United States and 100 objects is a production of 99% invisible and BBC studios. It's hosted and curated by me, Roman Mars. This episode was produced by Isaac Fisher. Our series producers are Priscilla Alabee, Brenna Daldorf, and Ellie Lightfoot. This series was edited by Annie Brown and Courtney Harrell. Mixed by Iver Manley, fact checking by Amy Bracken. Our theme song is by Swan Rihale. From 99% invisible, our executive producer is Kathy too. From BBC Studios, our executive producers are Annie Brown and Courtney Harrell. Our production coordinator is Shan Palais, and the production manager is Mabel Finnegan Wright, artwork by Stefan Lawrence. 99% invisible is part of the serious XM podcast family, Headquartered in Beautiful, Uptown, Oakland, California, and BBC Studios is Headquartered in Beautiful, White City, West London. If you want to get in touch or have an object for us to consider,

37:57email us at 100objects at 99pi.org. Thank you again to the sponsor of today's episode, Anthropic, the team behind Clawed. Clawed is the collaborator making your day-to-day life easier. Set up workflows with co-work to run on a schedule like daily reports and weekly summaries. Clawed can scan your slack and email to build you a prioritized action list. That's how I use it for this project, actually. It takes all the suggestion emails and puts them in this spreadsheet for me so I can check them all out and share them. You can build interactive tools and apps by describing what you need. Like custom calculators, data visualization dashboards, even prototypes, all without writing a single line of code. For problems worth solving, get started with Clawed at claw.ai. That's clawed.ai.