#2229 Fall Down, Get Up, Repeat - Bobby Cappuccio

0:00Good day to him. It's harps its Bobby. It's tiff. This is take two because Craig threw his glow mesh in the shag pole. Craig spat the dummy. Craig. I did a little bit tiff. Didn't I? A little bit. A little bit. But it's so fun and entertaining. Oh, hi, Bobby. Hey, what's going on, Craig? It's it's all going on. Bobby now feels bad because he thinks he was the problem, but he definitely wasn't the problem. He just put his grown up pants on. I know. He put his big boy pants on. Oh, dear. How's work, mate? Are you busy? Are you up to eyeballs and inspiring and teaching and coaching humans? It's getting quite busy. And like these these pants are like, you know, at least the size too big for me. But anyway, not the point. Things are getting really busy. So there's a lot of conferences popping up. So there's a lot to do as of late. How do you ensure if it's possible? This is for both you because you're both busy.

1:01How do you assure quality control in terms of what you're giving people in terms of your energy and the information and the user experience for one of the better term? Bobby, let's start with you. I hope I'm not thinking too much about quality control on the day, although I'm not saying that doesn't happen because it does. But I usually walk in with almost framing like a story on my best days. One, what's the quintessential problem that I'm trying to solve? Right? Like why am I even speaking? And then taking a look at almost like the metameth Campbell structure. Okay. So how do we craft this? Because everybody's on the journey. Right? So what's the activating event? Like where are people right now? What's the activating event that compels people to action? What are the challenges that will come up that people try to solve along the way? And what are some new problems that happen? What's the major definite challenge that people have the choice? They come to that decision,

2:07the abyss, and they need to resolve that. They need to cross that chasm. And who on the other end of that, can people become? So it's kind of like, what's the problem? Why does it hurt so bad that you might need to take action on it? Right? Like you're even here. What's the vehicle? Like how you get to take action? What's the actual steps? And what's on the other side of that in terms of transformation? And somewhere in that who also has done the same thing that you're trying to do? So try to pull a story that frames it, that's compelling, or try to pull from empirical evidence that supports what I'm saying that day. So it's kind of like that's my framework. And as long as I work within that framework, it gets me out of my head and instant the audience. Right. I guess I was asking that is interesting. Thank you. But I was also thinking about how do you optimize your focus,

3:10your physical and mental energy, your attention. And therefore, like I used to think how many personal training sessions can I do per day at the same level and give the same level of care and attention and impact. And if I'm being honest, probably sessions one to four were fucking great, maybe four to eight pretty good, and maybe eight to 12, they weren't getting the same value as the seven a.m. people. Like is that ever a thing for you, Bobby? Now when it comes to speaking, because if I'm doing a major event, it's probably the only thing of that type that I'm doing. So everything else doesn't have a lot of overlap. So I might do two events in a day, but that's usually the maximum. So as long as I protect space and energy around those events, like I'm not going to rock up straight out of a meeting and walk out on stage,

4:12that's crazy. Yeah. Usually that's not an issue. It's normally how I mentally prepare and how I channel my energy and thought process on my way over there before I even open up my mouth. And that usually has, I would say about 50% to do with the impact and the experience of the people in the room, not the actual content. Yeah, right. Nice. What about you, Cook? How do you keep yourself up and about if that's a thing? Yeah, I definitely, especially in the world of personal training, dealing with people one on one, I never had a big threshold for lots of clients in one day. It was always a matter of I knew my limit. And because I'm all in, I'm like, and I'm all there. So, you know, then when you've got a lot on or you're distracted, it's, it's just a bite-sized moment you need to be there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think that knowing that, knowing that is good for your self-management, the self-regulation, but it's also good for your

5:16clients because as much as you can ensure they're getting somewhere near the same quality of product for one of a better term, every time. Yeah. Yeah. You know, like the amount of times where I was not in a good mood or I did not have good energy or I literally when I was very young, I was going out with this lady who was a lovely lady. We broke up and I got no minute sleep. I got zero minute sleep and I had to come from that to train my first person up 530 and probably physically, just the hardest day of my life. And also emotionally because it was, you know, but that's the human experience and you can't then, I probably could have, but I probably didn't want to cancel 12 appointments or whatever stupid diary I had organized. So, yeah, that, if I don't

6:16manage me and it seems selfish, but if I don't eat great, if I don't train, you know, regularly at least, if I don't sleep great, if I don't hydrate well, I know like my brain doesn't work well, my attention's not as good, my focus, even just the quality of my thoughts. It's not at the same level. So, yeah, it's trying to, what do I need? It's like a racing car. What do I need to do to this car to make it go fast and not break down? How is that selfish? You're right. No, that's a good question, mate. It probably isn't, but I think it's generosity dressed up as selfishness in a way because, you know, it's like even right now as we're in to take two of this podcast, I feel bad about the first 10 minutes, right? And I'm whatever, right? But it's like trying to be the best version of you for people. If it's a Saturday and I'm not

7:17seeing anyone, I don't care so much if I'm tired or if I'm a bit this or that. But yeah, do you think that looking after yourself first is in some ways an act of what's the word, not kindness, but kind of kindness to yourself and others because they get the best you then? Well, you use the analogy of a race car, right? And this is something that I kind of want to dig into because I think it is at the root of a lot of problems we have, especially around self-help, where we have this like divisive like thinking about everything. It's either this or it's this. But just to answer that question, getting back to you, you talked about a race car. Let's say you were a Formula One driver and your team and your sponsors invested a ton of money in you. And like, oh, I don't want to be selfish. I'm not going to protect my sleep time. I'm not going to like protect my diet. You rock up in your half asleep and you send that car flying into a

8:20wall. Not only are you risking your safety, but you've just ruined the race. You just ruined the entire investment. That's not selfish at all. Is it? Yeah. But I think sometimes it's like, well-being now. Let's not waste time defining what we're talking about when we say well-being, because that ruins a perfectly useless argument. But there's one end where you have these people that tell you to grind yourself into the earth until your soul is filing for workers comp. And then you have on the other end of it the total self-care bubble bath, sitting a meditative pose, and just take a break from the world and check out for the next 12 to 13 months. And it's like, they're both right and they're both wrong at the same time. I mean, what are you trying to do? What's the performance you're trying to elicit and why and for who? And what do you have to get there? Like somebody said, well, you know, I just got a sales job and I'm taking a bunch of sales courses.

9:23Nobody's going to say, well, that's really selfish. Or wow, you need to spend more time at self-care. It makes sense. If I want to get better at sales, I got to do sales training and go out and do sales calls. If I want to get better at doing anything, well-being comes into that. I got to do the things that elicit the performance that people are depending on me. And that's also personally meaningful intrinsically to me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Do you think for specifically for mums, sometimes mums, it's harder just because it's all well and good. But I have three kids and there's just shit that I cannot do practically. Where you maybe have to figure out a compromised version or maybe even put things on hold. I can feel like three single people on a podcast is not representative of our audience.

10:23It literally read my mind about the mums. And I think that it can be such a trap for people because I just realized Bobby's not single. I apologize. I don't know why I said that. I think I was thinking of we're not parents. So apology. No, I know what you mean. Also, Amy, sorry. You are very much his wife. Sorry. And in other news, Craig puts foot in mouth again. Go on. Fuck, I'm going great today. I might retire. I might come over to rob with a punches and just fucking edit you show. Imagine that. No one needs that. Sorry. Go on. Me, me, me cat and dog. Yeah. I think we, we forget that I say it with again, feeling like probably you do because I don't have kids and feels we'd to talk about it. But you think about we put ourselves in a position where we put them first and sometimes we run ourselves

11:26into the ground. And then what are we teaching them by our example? Oh, we put ourselves last. We put ourselves last. We don't rest. We don't stop. And we don't really become the best version of ourselves. I'm not the best version of myself when I'm working all of the time and getting obsessed with performance. But you don't feel it in the moment. And then you're not the best for the people around you. Yeah. I reckon if I'm eight years old and my mum's neglecting herself and she's all about me, I don't give a fuck. I'm like, yeah, bring it on, Mary. Do you know what I mean? I don't know that kids would pay that much attention to whether or not their parents are looking after themselves. If the kids are being prioritised, I think that just kind of enjoy the attention. Yeah, but it's the unconscious learned behaviour. You become productive of what you're around because normal. I think about it when couples want to stay together in a relationship that's not

12:28working and not functional and not healthy for the kids. And if you can't find love in that space, if you can't want to be with one another and show that and then maybe it's not great for the kids because they feel the energy. Like we feel each other's emotions, we see. We know they won't have words for it, but they're essentially learning how you do love with the person that you supposedly is your one person in the world that you care about the most. Oh, that's tricky territory, isn't it? Because you can like you could make a case for both sides. Yeah, like you could say, well, let's we don't hate each other. Let's coexist. Let's create as good a space as we can and that at it. But then at the same time, do you want to kind of pretend you're in love for seven years until like that's what are your thoughts on that, Bobby? Well, I don't have kids. So that's a that's a hard one for me. I don't know if we would decide to stay together or split up for the

13:33sake of the cats. I don't know how deeply impacted they would be, but it's I feel just pulling from my own personal experiences. If my adopted mother would have gotten a divorce early, like or not have gotten married at all, it would have changed my life dramatically. And just to be candid, it would have changed my life for the better because that guy was a complete psycho. So I know not everybody's living with a psychopath and is in a very dangerous situation. But I know excess of mine who have discussed their separations where there was constant disrespect and fighting, no matter how much they tried to avoid it. Like the person would follow the mental rooms and here's a kid and they're seeing this. And it not only and not only says you're not safe here because we are not a cohesive unit. It's also training them how to treat

14:35mom, which is in this case, it was it was voice, which is highly destructive. Yeah. There's there's a lot to think about. And I feel I just can't bring myself to say if you're in a situation that is unsafe or abusive, stay in that for the sake of anything. That's a that's a very hard position to take. And I don't think I would ever take that position. My mind goes to like get out. But then on the other hand, relationships are very, very hard. And it takes constant work and it takes change and communication. And a lot of times what would cause somebody to go, right, you know, I'm just not getting the same feeling that I was getting when we first met. No shit, you're not the same person you were when you first met this person neither of they. And you kind of made that commitment like you're my person. So I feel like before getting there,

15:40what's that the root of the issue and can we communicate our way through this? Because it's always going to be hard. It doesn't mean it's not going to be beautiful, but it's always going to be work. But also for that to transpire for there to be real change and proceeding that communication and conversation and dialogue, both people need to be in the same alignment as in wanting that. And then you get the tricky bit. I watched this show the other night insight on, is it channel, is it SBS or I think it's SBS or ABC. Anyway, this lady talking about her life with this bloke for 30 years where he basically threatened to kill her if not every day, nearly every day and and just and I'm like I I wanted to turn it off. I absolutely wanted to turn it off because I it just

16:42it like hurt me and then this my higher voice went or how much do you reckon it hurt her shut the fuck and keep watching this and it nearly made me sick. And yeah, I know my anger doesn't alleviate anything else and me getting angry in that situation, but I was so fucking angry. I was so frustrated. I'm so mad that some people like that and do that to people and I know that means fuck all on a podcast talking, but yeah, I that's why I think they're there are there can't really be any hard and fast rules because every situation or a lot of situations are so different, you know. And everyone has their own kind of stuff and reason as to why they would have a particular stance. Like if someone's grown up in a in a broken home without a mum and dad staying married, then they're obviously their perception of what is good and what's not good is very different to someone who

17:46was in a loving home or one that was in a dysfunctional home. You got three completely different outlooks. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And isn't that amazing how how much parents teach kids how to be without saying a word like you said, if they kind of get, well, this is this what mum does is what dad does, this is how our house is, this must be how families work. This must be how mums work and dads work and because this is my only frame of reference cause this is the only family and the only home I've ever lived in. So for good or bad, that becomes their normal or that becomes their reference point, you know, as they move through the world and as they grow and of course aggressive fathers or abusive fathers produce abusive and aggressive sons at a higher rate than normal in inverter commerce. You know. Then what's

18:50interesting is, you know, I don't say 50% that's silly. I don't know, but a percentage of people will become something to move away from that which they were brought up in and another percentage will will follow in the footsteps and that in itself is interesting and then adds a layer of complexity to the whole conversation. Yes, I agree. I think Bobby did that. Mate, I think you you around so like you were drawn to self help and personal growth and positive psychology and human improvement probably because you were around the opposite of that. Like you got zero of that and I know you had a few mentors in your life that probably game changes for you, but maybe somewhere in your young brain you went, I'm not sure what I want to be, but I don't want to be that. Yeah, there was a lot of that going on where it was so extreme his belief systems as behaviors

19:51and sometimes I would try to align with them not out of consensus but out of protection, safety. And even then, I was like, this is this is a completely bullshit. So I was like, I know, I know one thing I don't want to be is like him when I grow up. You have to be really mindful because a lot of times certain character traits slip in. I think I got a lot from my adopted mother without realizing it. Because I don't want to be anything like her either, but in a lot of ways, I am with my extreme neuroticism, extreme anxiety. Like Amy's like, oh my goodness, there's two of you. And it's like, oh, that's where that probably comes from, but they were conscious decisions and observations I made of his behavior saying, yeah, this cannot be the way. It's really funny because when I moved out of my house and I was like, what, like 18? I had no idea how to exist in the world.

20:54So I was just trying to watch other people and draw conclusions and kind of mimic what they were doing. And one of the things was when I started dating, I've had this conversation, I dated the same person over a decade apart. And she was like, one of the reasons why I broke up with you is you were just so intensely romantic. I didn't know what to do with it. And it's because I would watch how he treated people. And I was, oh, I'm going to be the opposite. It's like if she got out of the car, I would have rolled out a red carpet if I could. If I had one light down in the puddle. It was, it was kind of extreme. And it's because I had no idea how to like go on a date. All I had was, okay, here's what he does. What's the complete opposite? Now, as I got older and a lot more fucked up, I resolved a lot of those issues. In the beginning, it was just me testing things in

21:54the world, just trying to figure it all out because I never really had parenting, like to teach me anything at all. Yeah, it's so funny how, how we assume things, especially when we're young, and what we think, like even with this, what, what a, what might be attractive to a person, right? It's like kindness and niceness and being thoughtful. Cool. But overbearing all day, everyday text and messages. And it's like, oh, now it's kind of creepy. You need to wind it back. I told someone, this is coincident. I'll be brief. I used to be friends with this young guy. In fact, he worked for me, but we were friends before that. He had this girlfriend who was from a, from a boy point of view, fantastic, like she was a nine. He was a seven, maybe eight, on a good day, right? So he was, he was a good looking boy. She was attractive. He was super happy,

22:59super proud of himself. And he was kind of cool laid back fun. Around her, he was this pathetic, like fucking people pleasing, couldn't do enough. And it's even, even like all these friends are like broke, cut back, like it's just, and in the end, she almost broke up with him, and then he was in dire straits. And I had to say to him, mate, it's like that, that, that desperation to have her and for her to be into you as much as you're into her, that desperation is going to push her away. Just be good. Just love her. Don't ring her 15 times a day. Don't fall on your sword nine times a day. Don't tell us she's incredible a hundred times a day. I know it seems like a good idea. But, and if I could be wrong, but I don't think most women are attracted to that. It's like, you know, if I know that he loves me and he's

24:04going to look after me in the way that I want to be looked after whatever that means and he's a good human, that's enough. I don't need 58 platitudes a day. That would fucking annoy me. And my rights if or no. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Go on, I'll be sorry. No, but it's not, it is nothing to do with the other person. It's almost insulting because you're not focused on that person. You're focused on your own insecurities. Yeah. And like those scenarios you have in your head that's causing you to smother somebody. It's almost like, imagine two twins identical twins live in the same city, but opposite sides of town. They both go out on their own for an evening. And they're both really good looking people so we can just rule out looks as a differentiating factor. One twin walks into a pub, looks around, says, I'm on my own. You know, I wonder who's into me here. Twin on the opposite end of town,

25:06walks into a pub, looks around and says, I wonder who I'm into. Now, all things being equal, which one of those twins are going to have a better evening out and which one of those twins is going to most likely go home and cry themselves into ice cream. Maybe that's really dramatic. Number one, because that's what I do. What, cry yourself into ice cream? I just walk in and go, who's going to be into me? And I go, hey, he is. Yep. So when the story's pretty clear though, right? It's like the first person is looking on going like, oh, well, who's the easiest person in this pub? That's not very flattering. That's driven by deep rooted insecurity. The second person, no matter how that turns out, it's like, wow, I'm into that person because there's something I'm curious about. Something about that person is attractive to me. I think that's a much better way to approach like, I'm not just dating, but individuals in general. It's, it's, it's, it's, it's,

26:10smothering is not about the other person. Okay, here's my philosophical question. So we're single and we don't want to be single and we go to a bar, a bar or we go to a barbecue or we go to a social event. And we better to be somewhat strategic as in how we interact with others or are we better to be just organically us, which may not like, are we better to be aware of it and think about it and maybe consider how someone else responds to us? I don't know. Is that a question? I know my vote. Tiff, what do you think? Well, I always hated dating and was in a perpetual trauma response in that environment. So I have no data to offer, but my thoughts are, when people get older, they tend to realize what actually matters to their matters and they

27:11get straight to the point. And I think when you're younger, you don't do that. You want to you think about what you should say to be liked or you don't like, I never wanted to be, I wanted to be the easy chick to get along with like the cool. I just want you to think that I'm not difficult and I'm cool and whatever. And so I know boundaries around you could say in appropriate demeaning shit in front of me and I would laugh at my own expense. You know, I just that that was a version of me a long time ago, whereas now I would go, well, I like, I wouldn't I would pick up on that. Yeah. It's very different. And I see it in, yeah, I guess because of my age, I see it in friends that I'm that are single now. They're like straight to, well, they actually this matters. This matters to me. So I they we bring it up on the first date. This is these are the stuff that matters. If it doesn't matter to you, we're probably not a good fit catcher. Yeah. Yeah. Do you think that some people are judgmental about people that are older and I don't know what I mean, but let's say 45 and onwards and single and happily single.

28:17I think I don't know. What do you two think about that first? I think there's all the some people. There's a certain percentage of people that are judgmental about absolutely anything and everything. And that's that's a totally different issue. But my question would be why like what's it to you? Are you playing on dating this person? Was marrying this person your life goal and their happily single and that just devastated you? Like why are you so invested in this person's life choices? Yeah. It's a little bit odd to me. Yeah. I regularly get inquiries about like basically what's wrong with you? Like or don't you want to be happy? And it's funny. Sometimes I'm talking to someone who is married and I know I'm way more happy with him. And I'm like this is such an ironic question that you don't realize you're asking. You know, I'm like, I'm not at all against marriage or relationships at all. I'm not against hang gliding, but I'm not going to do it. I'm not, you know,

29:24I could I ever be in a relationship of course, but do I have a goal list? And that's at the top. No, I don't actually think about it. And it's funny because I think some people struggle to believe that you truly could be fulfilled and you know, somewhat content and calm or happy. But they probably don't realize that I have lots of relationships that meet needs, social needs, emotional needs, loving needs, like I have people that love me and care about me. And which sounds weird. I don't care if it does. I have my mum who takes a lot of my love and my emotional energy. And yeah, it's like we don't all have to follow the same path or the same protocol. No matter how familiar it is. Last year when I had a conversation with Dr. Bruce Perry about exactly this, before Scott weaseled his way into my life. Yeah, fucking hell. Sneaky little bastard. He's like an

30:27infection, isn't he? What a trickster. Just starts with a little cut in your knee. And now he's invaded your whole fucking being. But I had this conversation with with Bruce Perry. Right, so one of the one of the top trauma therapists and child trauma therapists, arguably in the world. And I said to him like I said at that time, I have never been less interested in relationships or dating and more so now in recent years. And I know why logically and I understand it. And I believe that humans are wired for connection. But I am rewired and I'm okay with it. There's nothing in me that is not not okay with that. You know, and so I think you can be both, but people, people obviously put their own lens over. Like most people want to connect or have something that

31:27you know, they are that, but they're just saying they're happy. They, yes, I think there is. Yeah. I reckon also there's there's sorry, Bobby, I reckon there's a little bit that when you're kind of not interested like genuinely, Tiff, it's it's more attractive. I mean, people like more interested more curious, more attracted because you're like, no, I'm good. Thanks. Not pretend I'm good. No, I'm actually good. Thank you. All the best. Knock yourself out, champ. That's a flat. No. Yeah. Sorry, Bobby. Go. Now, I just think that I suspect for a certain percentage of people that are highly invested in how other people are living their lives and just doing that comparison. I feel like for a lot of us, we're just figuring this shit out. And there's so much pressure to have your shit together. Like one conversation that's coming up a lot, you know, because like last year,

32:29it was burnout. And now it's work life balance. And it's interesting that there's a book. I think it's by Oliver Berkman. And he tells a story where he's out in the middle of the winter on a bench in Park Slope. And Brooklyn winters are well, they're cold. And he lives pretty close to the bark, but he's out on this bench freezing and he's riddled with anxiety because things are just piling. And there's this enormity of demands on him. And given his background in leadership management, you think the default would be won't get a better time management system, get better organized. And the reason why he has this anxiety is he realizes that you're never going to get it all done. You're never going to have your shit completely together. Your life is never going to be in perfect balance. This is going back to what we started with. And I think there's this ideal. And then there's this reality. And because social evidence, I mean, like it or not, as

33:30independent and original that think you are, we are tribal people. We're pack animals, humans. You look over at someone else who's not doing the same thing. And it's like, God, if I got it all wrong, I'm trying so hard to get it right. And you know, the title of his book is 4,000 weeks because his realization was an 80 year old, if you live to be 80, you get an average of 4,000 weeks. Everything is highly finite. You don't have as much time as you think you do. And I think sometimes people are wondering, God, am I really living my life on my own terms in a way that aligns with my values? And I kind of look for consensus to reassure me that I am. I look over at the neighbors. They got the same car lawn 2.5 kids that I have. You know, I mean, it's a shame about that 0.5 kid, but it's reassuring for me. Yeah, he's just floating around in heaven,

34:32waiting for you shot to join another half. See, if you didn't always learning, you didn't know this stuff. We've got to wind up because I've got a thing. Bobby, the self-help antidote is up and about the podcast. It's back live. People can find you on LinkedIn. They can find you at your website. Is it just rob at thecomputjo.com? No, I just missed the self-help antidote. Thank you. And Tiffany Cook. She can, everyone can find you at Scotts house. Everyone can find you. Just trying to get rid of the virus that is Scotty. Just keep using that that powder in the cream and you never know. He'll be gone before you know it. Of course, Roll with a Punch is this podcast. Thanks, everyone. Talk to you two kids in a minute.