535. Relocation Diaries: 3 Years Later

0:00Almost three years ago, I moved with my family to Barcelona. And when I moved, I started something called relocation diaries, which was a very personal podcast about the experience of moving to a different country. I shared all the things about finding an apartment and dealing with a bureaucracy and learning Spanish and the struggles that I had and my family had. Five months after Christina, who is the content director on my team and a friend, moved to Spain as well. And we both experienced the same things at the same time. And today, two years after, I had stopped recording the relocation diaries that a lot of you loved so much, we wanted to bring it back in this conversation about relocation because we both had similar but very different experiences. And we decided to just talk about it. So, hi Christina, how are you doing? Hello, I'm great. How are you? Good. It's so good to see you.

1:02So good to see you too. I'm so happy to be here talking about relocating and I think it's language learning. I think we could talk about it forever. Forever. We usually do. Usually the cameras are not on. So now they are. We have three cameras, so it's really cool. We're in this nice podcast studio in Barcelona. All right, Christina, before we get started, I want you to introduce yourself but do it as if you are so extremely excited and proud of everything that you have achieved. I am. I'm extremely excited of who I am, where I am, I think before I moved, I was a completely different version of me. Like the past going on three years of moving completely changed my life. Turned it upside down, shook it around in the best way possible. Do you recommend it? I would. I would recommend it. Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, just for a little background, I had been working with you already for I think three years at that

2:07point. And I had always been working in a different time zone. And I had lived in different countries. I had lived in Germany. I had lived in Japan. And I always knew I wanted to leave the US. I'm originally from the US. And I just wanted something different. And you had moved to Spain recently before. And before that, I had found that there was a visa that would allow me to move with my job. So I could be closer to everybody and work in the same time zone. And also have the opportunity to live and work in a different country. And what is your job? My job is the content marketing director one could say at Hadar Shmesh International. Plus a lot more. I'll list all the other things before after you've shown it. That's the official title. Yeah. Yeah. And it's been yeah, going on well, five years now, I started as a pronunciation teacher in your

3:09programs. And then I moved from that to doing social media. And it's just kind of kept expanding. Yeah. Yeah. So Christina is the one person that when she had entered, like I knew that she would be the one who probably the only one who could take on some of the things that I was doing around content and social media and coming up with ideas and monitoring the quality of the educational content that we share in the program. What was that like five, six years ago, right? Yeah. And she writes copy and she manages our production. And she helps me with pretty much everything that I need when it comes to organizing and marketing and the content. And like you're just so diverse in what you do and capable and resourceful. So I love I love working with you. And I love the fact that you now live in Spain. So for context, Christina lives in Varencia.

4:16Yes. And I live in Barcelona. So we're only three hours away. I'm trying to try. Barcelona. How's it worked? Yeah. All your friends watching this right now are like, no, don't take her away. Anyway. So yeah, we got to work together, which was really nice after having worked together remotely only for so many years, like being able to meet and do like these marathons of content creation or filming or anything. So yeah. So tell me about the biggest surprise that you've experienced having moved to Spain from the US about yourself, about culture, about anything. Well, I think if we talk about the cultural shocks, there are many. And I think that it's definitely like the pace of life is just slower in Spain. I think you felt that too. Like, yeah. I think just longer days, first of all. So businesses open up a little bit later here.

5:23It's hard to find something open before 9 or even 10 AM. It surprised me that a lot of places close is even restaurants like closing from three or four and not opening again until seven or usually eight. Yeah. That was definitely a big shock to adjust my daily life. Like, okay, I have to organize my schedule around these, these businesses. In your stomach. Like, if you were used to having dinner at five, yeah, I just got back from the US and dinner starts at five. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a little tour. That's my lunch. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's crazy. I mean, I really never thought I would be the person ever like I used to go to bed at 9.30. And I never thought I would be the person that eats dinner at 10.10.30. 11. Sometimes really like I've completely adjusted. Yeah. Yeah. What are some shocks for you that are still? I think that part as well. Like, for me, I might have mentioned it at some point. Like, people not being frustrated by standing in line. Like, I would stand in line to get something. I remember being in a piece shop with my daughter

6:28and there were like six people ahead of me. And the guy was like taking his sweet time and like talking to the old lady. Yeah. And I was like getting so aggravated and like, I'm on my phone. And and everyone else was just like, okay, just waiting. No one was angry. And I was like, maybe I'm the problem. That happened to me actually the first, I think for the first month I moved. I noticed that. And I stopped noticing that. So I guess I adjusted. But it's like, it's no one else. Like, no one else has to get back home. No one else has other things to do. It's just really waste of time. It's like, you know, this is just life now is life. Yeah. Right. And we, like, I used to think that life is like when you have these pockets of time where you do the things that you love. No, life is is hanging out in the, you know, at the cafe with friends and talking. And I felt like there was something very so much like ease to it. And that has definitely calmed me down. Like, my life is not calm. Like, I'm the type of person who

7:34likes to bring a lot of action. And if if it gets too quiet, like I plan a trip or I like, let's create a new project. But I feel like it has definitely given me some a lot more balance. But I have to say, and this is a question that I have for you, I feel like with that, I definitely struggle with living in a place where I don't speak the language. Yeah. Well enough to feel like this is me. This is mine. And it's been three years. And it's kind of like it's very humbling because I'm like, I'm the language coach, right? I know I teach people how to learn a language, how to practice. And the first year or two, yeah, I've had a lot of excuses because it has been super intense. But I feel like I feel the gap. And I know a lot of my students and a lot of the people following my content for English, they feel that as well. It's like where I am right now. And where I think I should be, right? Like I should have been at a much

8:40better place right now in terms of my Spanish, not to mention Catalan. And I constantly need to navigate these thoughts and to remind myself that I'm always doing my best because it prevents me from taking more action. So I'm curious to hear because you came here with a little bit of Spanish already. Quite, you know, nice, nice. I love it. I thought I could communicate. You thought, can tell me more because for me, how you speak is kind of like that's the dream, right? And for you, because, you know, I mean, I, one of the reasons I chose to move to Spain was because I had already spoke, had a pretty, a base of Spanish. But I am from Florida and in Florida and in most places in the US, you, you will never learn Spanish because they will, every teacher will tell you, you don't need it. You don't need to learn all these things that are really only used in Spain

9:41because we're in the US and the majority of people speak a different version of Spanish. So I never learned that. And so coming here was really like, okay, I thought I could get by. I wasn't super fluent, but it was okay. And then I felt like, okay, I have to start over. And I had like a breaking point, I would say, which was when I had already been in Spain for about six months. And a girl invited me, she was a Colombian girl in Valencia and she invited me to her Christmas party. And at the whole party, I was the only non-native speaker. And I had like, yeah, like I got the information, you know, and I had already spoken with her one on one a couple of times and I felt okay. But then she invited me to her party. And I just could not communicate. You know, people were trying, everybody was super nice to me. I didn't, I don't remember that. Yeah, it was like I, I went there,

10:41and I don't know what it was if I was tired or if I just got into my head too much. But people were trying to talk to me. They were trying to connect to me. They were really lovely. But then I just, I just couldn't talk. I couldn't joke. I felt like me at 10%. And I left that, and I know a lot of our students or people watching this have had a really similar experience. That was the first time I left that party and I was almost in tears, not because I felt bad for myself, but I felt angry. And I'm like, how dare you get to this point where you've already been living in this country for six months, you've already studied Spanish for years, and you can't even, you know, you can't even speak and have a basic conversation. Like, how could this be? And I was really acting like a victim. I was so upset. And that day I really said, okay, I, this will not happen again. This cannot happen again. And that was really my point. And I took it seriously. I started to take more classes. I started to meet a lot

11:47of people, started dating in Spanish. That's the hack. That's really the hack. That's the hack. If you didn't have these limitations, being married. Yeah. We should have like, friend dating. Right? Like, we just date friends. I think this is a friend. Yeah. You're just a friend. Yep. What would coach Christina say to victim Christina? Because you are, yeah. Which you're a fluency coach as well. You've been, you know, like deep in the content that we are creating. So what would you say to yourself? After having walked out of that party. Yeah. Feeling horrible. What's the phrase? Like, well, what's is it? Like, put your big girl panties on. Or like, I didn't expect that. Well, just like, yeah, there's another one. I couldn't think of it. That's what you get. Anyway, I would have really said, like, get over yourself. Come on.

12:53Yeah. Get over it. You are living in Spain. You have all the access in the world to learn this language. Just start taking it more seriously. You know, I love that. It's, it's, it's, it's, because this is what I say to myself. I'm like, oh, you know, like when it's hard and all the different irregular verbs. And I'm like, okay, but you know that if you were to put in the time and the effort, you would have gotten the results that you want. That's it. Like, there is no one to complain to but to yourself. And I'm a big girl. So I've made the decision not to do it because I was doing other things that I prioritize. And if I want to prioritize language and fluency and confidence, then I need to do other things. It's not because I can't get it or I'm too, like, it's, it's just stories that I tell myself. So that is the first thing. But also, you know, you if I could jump in as your coach to say, yeah, like grow up all of that. But also, you know,

13:56you've only been there for six months. It takes time to adjust, to adapt the energy that you put out just to exist and to meet new people and everything. Like it makes sense that language takes the back seat and and operating from anger or frustration or kind of like shame. Yeah. Which is I often play with that like the feeling of shame of not speaking the language the way I should. But that these are just patterns and messages that we receive. And it's kind of like, okay, but but that's not helpful. It's not going to get you where you want to be. No, because shame or frustration, they just make you stay stuck because it's just that what it is. You feel that and then you freeze and then you procrastinate and then you don't want to deal with it. And then you end up not doing the thing that will actually get you the results to not feel the way you feel right now. It's such a, you know, like clear loop and yet we're all stuck in it. And I think one thing that also changed for me was to not practice in the way that I was told to practice because I'm not a

15:03conventional person. Right. No, you're not either. Yeah. I don't do things by the book. And so for me, like the traditional learning wasn't working. So it's like, okay, find a way to be creative. Find a way to do different things that are going to help you. Yeah. Even if it's going to a workout class in Spanish, okay, you're going to start to learn a whole new realm of vocabulary that you wouldn't have learned. And just putting yourself in different kinds of situations where it's enjoyable for you to learn the language. And it doesn't feel like so much work. And you reduce the friction between learning the language and living in the language. Yeah. If you live in the country, you speak. Yeah. Yeah. That is such a such a good point. I want to talk about it because I felt the same. And there was guilt around it as well because I was like, I have taken classes. I went to a school. I've had like four or five different teachers. And they're all great. But my brain works in a very specific way. Also, I have a lot of knowledge and experience teaching a language. And when it wasn't aligned, I wasn't, I didn't have the patience to kind of like coach someone on

16:07how to work with me, which is, you know, could have worked. But I was just like, I just wanted to get results. And then I was like, okay, I'm just going to do it myself, but I need accountability. So the fact that I didn't have that, I didn't do the thing. But to recognize that if something doesn't work for you, that's not necessarily your fault. I remember working with a teacher, I think I told you that. She was great, very, very nice. But you would correct me on every single thing or give me three different options for every word that I was searching for. Instead of like, let me just finish my thought and give me the word that I need so I can finish my thought. Because right now I'm in my brain is trying to produce language, right? Like to just speak. I'm not necessarily now trying to learn all the different vocabulary that exists for this particular thing. And I think this is a common thing that teachers do. They really want to give you a lot of options. And some students like that, I personally don't like to teach this way

17:08because I don't think it's effective as a student, it's not effective. But I remember walking out frustrated, A, because, you know, at some point I communicated it and that has changed a little bit. But I think it's really hard when you put all the responsibility onto the teacher or the school. And if it doesn't work, then you say, oh, I just don't know how to learn or I'm not talented. And what you're saying basically is. Yeah, I think everyone has a responsibility to say, okay, if it's hard for me to memorize stuff, then maybe I shouldn't be memorizing word lists. If it's hard for me, you know, just to say, okay, if there's so much friction, if this is so hard, maybe I need to find another way. Maybe I just need to see, okay, what can I, what can I do differently? What is within my power? And what do I enjoy? Yeah, what gets me excited? What do I not want to take my eyeball out? Yeah, and start to, because we know like when you have, when you enjoy something, the connection is so much better in your brain, like, okay, I start to enjoy this

18:12because I have a positive connection. It doesn't feel like a chore, it doesn't feel so hard. And where are you at with your Spanish now? Because I know we have a lot of people who watched the relocation diaries all that time ago. So checking in today, where are you at? Do we have to? So I'll tell you, my comprehension has improved immensely. Yeah, so that has been a big, big shift for me. But that's passive, right? That's simply because I'm listening and I'm like hearing things and things clicked, right? Like things that I'm, so that is easier and I'm a lot more capable of speaking. I speak incorrectly. Like I, like the, the tenses and the, I feel like, I'll tell you what I feel like is blocking me. I need a big chunk of time and I think it's also mentally blocking me from moving forward to take, like, to really get the tenses, right? Because in

19:15my head, I'm aware of all the different tenses or at least the key tenses, like past, present, future, you know, like, and, and to take all the regular verbs because there are many and really drill it down so that there's no questioning around it. So what happens in my brain is that I know that something is a little different here. It's not like the usual pattern. My brain is like not recalling it immediately, right? So it's not a habit just yet. This is what we talk about when we do the intentional repetitions and the sprints and everything. And that time is defeating. Like the moment my brain starts searching. So a lot of people think of it as translating. I don't think of it as translating. I think it's like I'm just searching for the memory of how to say that particular verb in that tense and that, with that pronoun, right? And then I'm lost. Like I'm like, okay,

20:18like it's too long. So I feel like once I get that out of the way, which between us is just like drills, right? Like doing drills and practicing it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Then I feel like that would be my next jump. But yeah, where are you at? I met a place where I'm comfortable. Yeah. Yeah, I'm very comfortable. I still find myself in certain situations. Like if I go to the doctor, I look beforehand. Like I will look up some common vocabulary beforehand. Or if I go get my haircut, you know, I'm like, okay, how do I ask for that? So if I have a bad haircut, I can blame it on my... Yeah, exactly. What do I say? Highlights and had extensions. So I do that. Like I refresh my vocabulary. And there are things that I do get frustrated at like, why can I still not remember how to say that? It's like, okay, but you're not using it on daily basis. Of course, you don't remember how

21:19to say it. Yeah, compassion, compassion. Just like move forward. Yeah. But what do you, how does it feel speaking in Spanish? Like do you feel like people recognize that you're a non-native speaker? What's the feedback that you get? I think it depends a lot on me. I think people usually don't say much about it. But sometimes maybe I'm having an off day and then I don't feel so confident or whatever. And then I get way to in my head and then I might sound less... people pick up on that. So, but in general, I feel fine. I feel like me. It's still hard for me in groups. If I'm in a group of Spanish speakers, the conversation flies a lot faster than if I'm just one-on-one. I feel really comfortable one-on-one. But again, I don't have as much experience talking in a lot of Spanish groups. So it's just lack of practice in those things. But I feel okay. Yeah.

22:24And what is the biggest skill that you've developed relocating to or the most important skill that you now have, life skill or anything that you have developed, having moved to a different country? Let's cut this thinking time. I'm so going to keep it. So many. Okay, I would say being flexible. I used to really be super-influxable. Oh, that's true. Yeah, I used to love a plan. I would really struggle when I didn't have a plan. I would stress out and I would get really frustrated when other people didn't have a plan. And I used to think I was a person with a plan. Like that was it. That was who I am. But I don't really think that that was true. I think I was just living by the confines of the

23:28culture I was in. And now I don't plan more than like, I don't know, a couple hours in advance. Or goodness. I will, you know, like I can book a train or a flight in two days. If you told me that, I would do be that person. You have both. You can plan. I can plan. But you can also be spontaneous. Yeah. And I think also living in Spain gives you that space for spontaneity and also living within Europe, traveling within Europe. It's very different than at least living in the US where you really have to plan stuff. You know, you have like a kids birthday party that's planned three months in advance that you have to RSVP to, you know, and here it's just like so easy. And I think I've learned to be inflexible because when you're trying to fit rigidity into a inflexible society, you're just going to be frustrated. So you have to surrender. Yeah. And I've loved the surrender. And I've loved just leaning into it and just being like, it's okay. I don't, I don't need to have

24:31a plan. Yeah. And it's so funny when I compare that like with my family, you know, my parents, my calmly, and they're like, oh, I want to come, you know, in eight months from now. And I'm like, I don't even know if I'm going to be living in my apartment in eight months from now. I might have moved like, I don't know. I don't know if anyone's going to be present. I don't know. Anything is possible. And I love that. Like I think I've really opened my mind. Yeah. Do you feel more? But you are always pretty flexible. I would, yes. I also like to not to plan ahead, but also always change the plans right before mind you how much time did you give yourself before moving to Spain than a month? And my entire family. Yeah. And within a month studio. I said goodbye to everyone, packed my entire life within a month. Yeah. So that was challenging. But honestly, I don't know if I would have handled well with so much time. Like having eight months to to prepare. Like you're like

25:37in this limbo. I can't do anything big here because I'm moving and like always thinking, you know, it's kind of like the amount of time that you have, no matter what you have to do within that time, you will most likely get it done. Right? Otherwise, you just stretch the decision making. You just stretch the, you know, like putting in a lot more effort into getting things done. So I've learned to do less and to get the most out of what I want, even though it's not perfect. But to me, and I want to take what you said, like moving from rigidity by the way, good word. I know when I came up with it, I was like how to pronounce rigidity. It's a good one. Rigidity and flexibility. I'm like, to me, I name it differently. And I say like learning how to let go of control because it is because when I moved, I had a plan. I wanted everything done by X. Yeah. Date. And then that. And then that. And then you come to Spain and you've got to let go. Like in January when everyone's off. And you

26:40got to, you know, and you don't speak the language. And you have to recognize that the world has different plans for you, even just moving. You know, I had a, I was thinking about it, but I didn't plan it for a long time. You know, so. And I think there is something very sweet about it because when people ask me now, like how long are you going to be in Spain? I'm like, I don't know. Yeah. I'm here for the next year. Yeah. That I know. And then I don't know. And, and living a life or creating a life, I think I deliberately created a life for myself, you as well. Yeah. Same. Right. That I wouldn't have to be landlocked. I wouldn't have to be in one place so that I could be flexible. I mean, my parents are back in my home country and, and, and my friends. So it's not like I'm detaching myself. But travel has become not something that I do only when I'm on holidays, just like it's part of my life because I get to visit and see friends. But I also, everything is a lot easier here.

27:43Yeah. Like so much easier. I know. Yeah. Like I had, we had a community meet up in Naples and I took a plane. I took a flight in the morning and got back at night. So I got to see my daughters that same night was the Eurovision. So they were up. You had to be back. I had to be back to see the results. Yeah. And that was terrible. So yeah. So letting go of control or being more flexible, I think that, and I think like that ties into when it comes to language and like we focus a lot about language, but it's also personal development. It ties into it. And so like from where you, where you started and where you are now, not talking about the language, but personally, what do you feel like has changed for you? Like what have you? Well, I've done a lot of personal work to not especially around process. The first year was like a horrible, horrible year. Personally, because of a lot of things that were happening in the world and in my life and the

28:48business and you know, like so many changes without even talking about the relocation. Yeah. So I had to like, Matt do a lot of self coaching, right? Like to like, I would get triggered and I would get like frustrated and it's like, okay, what's going on now? It's just real. Like I, after all, I'm safe. Such a privilege to be able to move with your family and to see my daughters struggling and to reframe it instead of what have I done to them? It's kind of like I'm, I'm, I'm offering them an opportunity to grow because a change is good and you learn to adapt and you learn to adapt to a new group of friends, right? Which is a skill that they didn't have and how they do. You know, and I think also like embracing change and welcoming change and knowing that change feels hard, but usually when it feels hard, that is when you are growing. Like if it doesn't feel hard, you're probably not challenging yourself. That goes for language, that goes for life. I mean,

29:51everything. Tell me about you like in terms of social life and friendships. Like how has that changed? Everything has changed. And the first time I came to Spain, just to visit for a week, the first thing I noticed about Spain was it was so social. There was so much community. You go outside, people are sitting together and I remember thinking in my mind, how do people have so many friends? That was really something I had and I wanted that so badly. I was just, I needed that and you know, of course, my moving to Spain was very different from yours. Like I came alone, which allowed, you know, for more flexibility, but also, I was alone. Like I was really looking for that connection and I also could find that connection really easily and I found an incredible community of people when I moved. And for the first time in my life, I felt understood. I mean, I felt like, oh my gosh, speak to that a little bit more. What does it mean to be understood? I remember this first day I met

30:57someone when I moved to Valencia and I was having a conversation with them and I asked them, like, oh, why did you decide to move here? And he said, oh, I don't know, I just wanted to try. And I thought to myself, oh my god, I'm not crazy. Because for so long, whenever I told someone, like, I don't know, I'm just going to move and why and let's see. You're crazy. Everyone thought, what are you doing? You are really crazy. I met someone else that, that, you know, did the same thing and I kept meeting people like that and I'm like, oh my god, these are my people. I'm not alone in this world in the way that I think and I felt like I finally found my people. My social life just completely expanded in the best way possible. And I was also able to, but with that social life expanding also came a whole different confrontation of like, who am I? Who do I want to be? Who are my friends? How am I as a friend? And how am I different with different people? And if so why?

32:00Is it good or bad or just what is it about me? Yeah, do I want it? Do I not want it for sure? Yeah, yeah. And really like a complete identity shift, identity change, like a new situation, I'm a new person, I act differently. Like before my identity was really like fixed and then here, it was just breaking apart and rebuilding and that breaking apart feels like I'm going insane. But then, you know, you rebuild and you're like, okay, and expand. Like I feel like when you said it, it was like, identity is expanding, you know, and not necessarily changing. Yeah, not like, not sh- I would say it felt like shedding a new skin, you know, like a snake, beautiful. You're like, you're growing. Yeah. Do you think it has to do with the language as well? Like really having to or yeah, because I think it comes with the fact that you are in a new country, you don't speak the language natively. People treat you differently. Like look at me, I'm not Spanish. I don't- I cannot fit in, you know, in a way. Everyone sees me in there immediately like not from here.

33:02And so it's like, okay, no matter how good my Spanish might be, I will always be a little bit different. So also coming to terms with that, which is okay. But I think that that also shakes you a little bit because you're like, okay, who am I and who do I really want to be when things are not easy? Yeah. When I can't go into a shop and get whatever I want, when I cannot like joke a little bit with the cashier or make, you know, some easy small talk over here. Everything feels so effortful and it's like, yeah, it's so heavy. That's the hardest for me, by the way, not being able to make small talk with the people around me. Yeah. You feel power. Fabric of your life and your community and your culture, like you can be a part of it. And even if you can communicate on a functional level, the small jokes that compliments the, like I'm- that's the part that I heard. Yeah, it hurts. I feel like I'm standing on the outside and I'm like, guys, can you let me in? Yeah. Please? Yeah. I want to be part of your club.

34:05And I feel like it's not even that you're not invited. It's like you're not stepping in. Yeah, they would love and I think that's the thing. Like I've had great experiences here and people want that too, but you just feel like I am there. There's such a big gap between who I am and who I want to be. But learning to move past that sometimes and just saying, screw it. That's great. It's fine. Yeah, it's like I'm not going to be perfect and that's okay. This is not my native language and it's never going to be. Yeah. And I'm okay with that. And the more permission we can give ourselves with the obvious things, right? Like language, of course, you know, like you're not a native speaker. It's okay that you're not perfect. Yeah. Even though it's hard to comprehend, but logically it's easy to give yourself permission. Sometimes we need to recognize that we do that with other things. Like our work or you know how we are in relationships and we're very hard on ourselves for not being the ideal version or the perfect version. And we can take from that and bring it into other

35:06areas in life. Yeah. You know, I always say to my students and you know that that learning as I can language is a personal development journey. Yeah. There's so much growth and if you don't, you're not willing to do the thought work and the and recognizing what it does to you and how you show up. Like not only that you're it's going to be very hard and it's going to take a long time to get fluent, you are not going to get to that ideal experience of feeling like a native speaker, right? I hate it when we say, oh, sound like a native speaker. No, but like what does it mean to feel like a native speaker? It means that you are in your skin and if you like yourself, yeah. In whatever language you speak and I think that's the ideal and this is what we are doing here. Yeah, that's great. I just want to say that really quick. It's like when you say, oh, I want to sound like a native speaker. Yeah, I never thought about that. Like what you're really saying is I just want to feel like me. Yeah. That's like I was born into that language and it doesn't need to be perfect. Doesn't need to be fancy. Yeah. It's just good connected. Yeah.

36:12All right, Christina, that was a lot of fun talking to you. Thanks for having me. I'm going to say publicly that I'm so happy that you live in Spain and that we get to meet and have this, these conversations on and off camera. And thank you for being here. Thank you so much for having me.