Anti-terror arrests near major US airbase

0:00ABC Listen, podcasts, radio, news, music and more. Good morning. This is AM. It's Monday, the 28th of September. I'm Barbara Miller coming to you from Gadigal Land in Sydney. We begin with news of that major incident around an air base in South West England. British counterterrorism police are investigating whether it's suspected plot to attack the RAF Fairford base is linked to Iran. Europe bureau chief Missouri forward is following developments from London. Good morning, Barbara. We'll counterterror police leading this investigation. Haven't given us a lot of details at this stage, but I can tell you what we found out from local police. And that is that just before 1am on Sunday morning local time, a member of the public phoned through to police to report three suspicious white vans near the RAF Fairford air base in South West England. Then it wasn't long before it was all on this armed police operation

1:01to intercept those vans, arrest five men and they've arrested them on explosives and terrorism offences. They're currently being held and they can be held for up to two weeks. There's a 400 meter cordon in place and 85 households have been evacuated with people told to either go and stay with relatives or they could go to a leisure centre a few villagers away. They can't go home at the moment because army bomb explosives experts are still examining the three vehicles. They've spent hours doing that and we don't know if they've found anything. We don't know if there's anything to find. We don't know what the motivations behind the people in the vans might have been. But there is some local suspicion and that is because RAF Fairford hosts the US military and the base has been used extensively this year for the US to launch bombing raids on Iran. Back in July Iran's revolutionary guards said they'd view any base helping the US as a legitimate target and there has

2:04been speculation and there has been suspicion in the community. Let's listen to the local Kotswell District councillor Tristan Wilson speaking about that. So there was a specific threat about six weeks ago from the Iranians on this base at the time there was an increased surveillance around the area. This is an operational base. It's no secret that we have American bombers here that are taking part in what's happening in the Middle East at the moment. So there's always the risk. In the British Prime Minister Andy Burnham at a Labour Party conference I believe what have we heard from him or indeed from US authorities? Andy Burnham has urged people not to speculate while authorities work to establish the full facts. And indeed this might not be Iran. It could be another hostile state actor and we know that Britain has been helping Ukraine during the full-scale Russian invasion and Russia's hybrid warfare attacks across Europe are well documented. Or it could be an

3:05individual or a proxy group at this point in time we just don't know. The US President Donald Trump though was asked about the incident and seemed to intimate that there might be a group behind this. The arrest in the UK was fantastic. Working with Britain it was an amazing job. We had them under investigation. They were looking to do big damage to our port and working with the British worked out great. But countertaural police have been very thin with information about who might be behind this and they say they'll give an update when there is one. Europe bureau chief Mazooie Ford in London. Former long-term members of one nation have accused the party of lacking financial transparency and internal democracy. Saying members have virtually no say over the party's policies or candidates. The former leader of the party in South Australia has told four coroners that one nation operates more like a small business than a political party. Steve Kinnane has the story.

4:08Jennifer Gain worked for Pauline Hanson as a policy adviser for eight years and was the party's leader in South Australia. After she quit the party last year one nation failed to return her $2,000 nomination deposit and reimburse over $14,000 in campaign expenses. The deposit was later returned after a debt recovery process and a magistrate ordered the party to pay the expenses. Jennifer Gain once photos to know that one nation is not run like a normal party. It's not a democratic party in the way that other parties are. It's headed by a group of three or four which would include Senator Hanson herself, James Ashby and they run everything. It is not a party in the truth. It's more like a small business. One nation did let its members pre-select their candidate for Farrah, David Farley earlier this year. But that has not been normal practice for the party. Jim Savage is a former Queensland president of One Nation. He quit the party in 2019, citing

5:12a lack of financial transparency. He agrees with Pauline Hanson on policy and will vote for her in the next election. But says the party needs to become more democratic. Nobody should be present for life, whether it's for a country or for a political party, or it's for the local boy scales. We live in a democracy. I know Robert McGarby was and a few other dictators are but no, you can't be present for life. Members decide who the president is. Asking One Nation about its commitment to democratic values has proved difficult. They declined all of our interview requests and aband the ABC from a series of press conferences. When we got wind of a One Nation announcement at an industrial estate in Singleton, we waited until the cameras were rolling and walked in. I've been speaking to long-term members of One Nation. And they have said that the party really lacks internal democracy. They say that party members don't have a say in policies or pre-selections. They point out that candidates have to sign

6:13NDAs. They point to the fact that you're the president for life under your constitution. Why do you oppose democracy inside your own party? That's what I like. That probably explains the massive growth in One Nation membership because they're also unhappy. That's why we are really struggling with how many people actually joining the party because they're also desperately unhappy with what we're doing. But do you think being president for life is consistent with Australian democratic values? President is actually a figurehead. I have elected members of parliament in South Australia, Western Australia, Federal Parliament. They actually represent the people. They're doing the job. What's being elected? After the press conference, I approached James Ashby. James. Steve Canaine. Oh, yeah. Steve. Yeah? I'm not interested. Yeah. scrutiny is what kills all popular movements. Garth Hamilton is the Liberal National MP for groom and an outspoken critic of One Nation. We face scrutiny every day and we front up to it because the worst thing you can do is run

7:15a waifment and let it build up. I may be a strong conservative. You talk to the ABC, you talk to the Guardian, you talk to SPS, you talk to whoever and allow them to ask you the questions. People can't say that you're hiding something. People can't say that you're running from something. That's Garth Hamilton, the Liberal National MP for groom. Israelis are going to the polls next month with the question of whether Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu received warnings ahead of the October 7 terrorist attacks playing into the campaign. Following reports earlier this month that the UAE issued warnings about the threat of an attack, the Atlantic magazine is now reporting that Egypt's intelligence chief personally visited Israel in the days before October 7 to issue his own warning. Benjamin Netanyahu has dismissed the Atlantic reporting as lies. The reporter who broke the story is Vivian Salama. After months of digging through, um, flight tracking applications and eventually through Israeli

8:22flight logs, I was able to determine that about 11 days before the tragic, um, October 7th attacks in 2023, the head of Egyptian intelligence at Basq camel had gotten on a plane and had gone to Ben Garyan Airport for just over an hour, which is a pretty unusual visit. He's not someone who goes there often. And I was able to first track his plane and determine which one is exactly his plane he uses a chartered Cessna, but then also verifying through various sources, not only who heard second hand about camel's visit and what he had relayed to the Israelis, but eventually finding people whom he told directly that he had gone there. With an unusual warning and told the Israelis, look, we see a really unusual mobilization with Hamas. And we just recommend that you take some immediate action before it's too late, make some concessions at the time. There had been a lot of back and forth, um, trying to get Hamas to may, um, and the Israelis

9:27to agree to various concessions, you know, the situation was pretty fraught at that moment and there were protests on the on the border between Gaza and Israel and other things. And so, some economic sanctions, some related to prisoner releases, things of that nature. He, urged them to do something along those lines to try to diffuse the situation. Of course, concessions were made almost immediately after camel left Israel, but obviously not, uh, not enough to stop the attacks. But just the fact that the Egyptian intel chief would go to Israel and in this case, for such a short time, just to convey a message, you know, as one of my sources told me, the messenger was the message. And so the question then became whether those officials relayed the message directly to Bibi Netanyahu and his leadership. Um, and the Prime Minister, of course, denying that he had received anything like that. And your reporting doesn't suggest

10:29that you have evidence or testimony that that warning was relayed directly to Benjamin Netanyahu? Only Israeli officials who are familiar with the mechanics of the government who say that he would usually have to even sign off on the Egyptian intel chief coming to Israel, or it be by invitation, let alone that, you know, just his presence would immediately kind of be something that would be conveyed to Benjamin Netanyahu. And so, based on his public schedule, you know, at the time, around the time that camel was physically in Israel, there was also a 50th anniversary commemoration for the Yom Kippur War, which ironically was a surprise attack by Egypt and Syria, 50 years prior. And so Benjamin Netanyahu was there in Jerusalem giving a speech to mark that occasion all the while this meeting was taking place at Ben-Gurion Airport. And so right after

11:29that ceremony took place, Netanyahu has on his public calendar a classified meeting that took place around 1230, you know, Israel time. And so all of this would have been done, camel would have been gone by then. And so, you know, the question then became whoever the national security officials who attended that meeting with him, did they convey some sort of a message? Did they report back to him? Would camel relay to them? And that's the question that I continue to dig as well as certainly other journalists as well. You know, the fact that he was physically there was the first part of my story and then we're going to hopefully figure out more as the days go by. Benjamin Netanyahu has denied your reports saying recycled lies will not become true no matter how often they are repeated. Is it possible to see the fact that people are now coming forward with these accounts as directly related to the Israeli election campaign? I can't speak for others.

12:34I mean, mine was a very extensive level of reporting that dug into flight patterns and spoke to sources in seven different countries, not just Israeli sources. So, you know, for me, it was not a question of motive. You know, I always question that at first, you know, are people politically motivated to try and influence an election or do whatever. In this case, I had officials from so many countries of verifying bits of my reporting, plus the actual technical analysis of flight patterns of the Egyptian intelligence chiefs plane and things like that that I didn't really factor that in because I was just looking at the facts. Vivian Salama, staff writer at The Atlantic. Thank you so much. Thank you. Some of the biggest payment changes in years take effect this week with surcharges, those pesky fees you pay when tapping your card with some businesses to be banned from

13:39Thursday. Well, that might sound good. There are concerns businesses could pass on the costs to customers. Business reporter Adelaide Miller has the story. Swimschool owner Greg Hodge is working with his customers to change the way they pay for lessons. That's because from October 1, he will no longer be able to surcharge. We either have to absorb them or we have to put our fees up and he's looking at around about a dollar or less. Some businesses add a surcharge to the final price of their goods or services to cover their bank fees. After a review into Australia's payment system, the Reserve bank announced sweeping changes, removing debit and credit card surcharges when a customer pays. It also banned a reduction in fees paid by businesses to banks to process credit card transactions with a new cap of 0.3%. But even with the reduction, Greg Hodge says it's still stressful. When we are forced to put our fees up, forces families to make choices. Will I have two children in?

14:42Will I have one child in? Will I pull my kids out? He's not alone. The chief executive of the Australian Restaurant and Cafe Association, Wes Lambert says many businesses are considering their options. Many have indicated that they are going to increase their prices. Many have told us they are going to start taking certain credit card types. Many have said that they're going to go to cash only. But the RBA's Ellis Connelly says this won't have an ongoing impact on inflation. The consumer was paying it either way, whether it was paid in a surcharge or whether it was paid in the end price. We think the overall effect on the price level will be very small. In response to the upcoming changes, major banks have increased fees, reduced rewards programs, and some have even cut back insurance perks. What we've seen from these significant changes from the banks is the banks aren't willing to take this loss. That's Can Stars Sally Tindle. The consumer in many cases will end up paying for part of this ban at the minimum, but also small

15:46businesses. The Australian Banking Association's Simon Birmingham says these changes were expected. This was very much intentional from the design of the Reserve Bank to drive these types of changes in the marketplace, but the message is always the same to consumers as it is to small businesses. Shop around where you can. This is a highly competitive market and banks will still be competing for credit card customers and for small business merchants. The changes come into effect on October 1. Adelaide Miller. Tech experts have banked calls for AI companies to testify before a Greens-led Senate inquiry to face scrutiny over safety issues. The push comes after revelations and AI agent from OpenAI infiltrated a Medicare website and targeted other government sites. Any guest reports. Front-up and answer about your creations that could change the world as we know it. That's the message from the Greens Sarah Hanson Young, who wants AI bosses Sam Altman from OpenAI

16:52and Anthropics Dario Amade to appear before the Australian Senate. They want to set up shop here in Australia. We're running an inquiry into how, why and what the consequences are. They should front up and be honest, open and transparent with the Australian people. The fact that OpenAI has already been caught cacking into Australian government website just shows how desperately we need rules and regulations in place before we let them expand any further. Senator Hanson Young is scathing about how rogue OpenAI agents hacked into government databases, including Medicare in June. And the company did not notify the Australian government until this month. It comes as OpenAI and Anthropic have been pressuring the government over copyright access in exchange for data center investment. And there's been international debate over AI safety regulation and the companies themselves warning about potential danger and the need for a slowdown

17:52in AI development. Australians do not trust big AI and you can see why. OpenAI has also revealed rogue agents have hacked dozens of platforms and it's suspended training on its new models. The call for OpenAI and Anthropic to be accountable to the parliamentary inquiry is backed by UNSWA expert Professor Salil Canary. Yes, I think that would be fair. The number of such incidents have escalated in the past month or so and it's very likely there'll be many more which haven't been yet revealed. So I think it's fair to ask them questions on how they are going to prevent some of these issues in the future. And do you believe that these issues can be prevented by the tech companies? I think yes, they can. There are engineering safeguards that could be put in place. The Australian government has announced an investigation to be led by the Prime Minister's

18:56Department working with the Australian Signals Directorate and the AI Safety Institute. The government's also planning to introduce legislative safeguards next year. AM asked OpenAI and Anthropic for a response to the calls for them to answer questions before the Senate inquiry. In a statement, a spokesperson for OpenAI said the company doesn't have anything to share right now but added, we will let you know when we do. The tech council of Australia says the sector supports constructive engagement with Parliament as Australia develops its approach to AI. Any guests there and that's AM for today. Good to be with you. I'm Barbara Miller. Hi, I'm Melissa Clark, host of the ABC News Daily Podcast. Many of the voices warning that rapidly developing AI as a threat to humanity are also predicting the tech will help cure cancer and save millions of lives. But how will these competing visions of destruction and salvation play out?

19:58Today, Dr. and researcher Amelia Giforski joins us to separate the reality from the hype. Look for the ABC News Daily Podcast on ABC News.