B-Side: Carry On Cymru

0:00On Amtrak, you can spend more time relaxing and enjoying the ride and less time cursing under your breath in traffic. Whether you're going on a quick trip or up and down the northeast, we'll make sure you do it in comfort with no middle seat and plenty of leg room stretch out without ever stressing out. Bucket Traffic Free Getaway at Amtrak.com. Amtrak, Retrain Travel. Ryan Reynolds here for Mint Mobile with your summer price forecast. Now, unfortunately, we're seeing rising costs across the country with possibility that big wireless hates you 100%. Now, over here at Mint Mobile, we're seeing sunny skies and dropping prices every plan to just $15 a month. Give it a try at MintMobile.com slash Switch. Up from payment of $45 for three months, $90 for six months or $180 for 12-month plan required, $15 per month equivalent to taxes in these extra. New customer offer for initial plan term only greater than 50 gigabytes may slow in at work is busy. See terms. I'm slightly obsessed with drag names as well because I've created a

1:02drag act, which is Nigella Farage. She's incredibly racist whilst making a goat Massaman curry as the idea. Ryan. Ryan. Welcome to Quiet, right beside the deep dive companion to the news and politics Thursday chat. I'm Alex Andreou. I'm Kenny Campbell here to flick the dust of Alex's stylus. Who are Mrs. Dare I ask if he wants the new bake off this week? It's I want to do you bake off this way. Oh my goodness me. I'm very excited for obvious reasons. I bet you have. Well, look, one no spoilers. I loved it. And it was the first episode with Nigella and she's settling in. You can see that first challenge. She was taking a deep breath and going, here we go. Father, some changes already. So we've already got somebody in the program in Nigella who likes her salt. My family are big fans of salt. This I foresee is going to cause all sorts of angst in the weeks ahead.

2:05At least I hope it does. The thing that really stood out for me though was when you watch Paul at Hollywood taking a sample of the cakes. It takes a tiny little sliver and it sort of matches it down into three pieces and it takes a third of that tiny little piece and tastes it and does his thing. Now, Dare that arise with a GCB? She's the biggest spoon. She's shuffling it down there that she hasn't eaten for a month. I mean, the woman's not going to last two weeks. No, like people actually eat cake as well. Yes, but not when they got sort of 12 cakes to eat. I mean, all credit to her. Her stomach is a thing of wonder. I mean, Nigella is a thing of wonder being honest. But no, it's a huge thumbs up from me. I have to say that I'll give you a little bit of insight and knowledge. So during those first few weeks there were there are a lot of acres. It was a challenge. The amount of sugar she was taking on was like massive. It was diabetes type three in coming.

3:05But you see, I find it very interesting because is he Paul is interested in the technique of baking a night? That's right. I get that totally in a respected completely. But for Paul, when he's scraped it with his fork and he's pressed the fork into it and he's looked at it and looked at the crumb, 90% of what he needs to know about that cake he already knows. Because it's about whether it's the right amount of moisture, whether it's the right process of cooking, how it crumbles, etc. While for an ajella it's all about the taste. Because her philosophy is what's the point of making a perfect cake that no one wants to eat? I wonder if he's changed as well because in the first signature challenge, one of the contestants produced a cake that was technically very, very good. But Paul actually, he paused and he looked around and said, I could eat this whole day. And it's as enthusiastic as I've seen the man be about anybody's cake without offering a handshake. And I think that's the thing I'm hopeful about this new incarnation is that I know there was one or two

4:07bits of criticism in certain parts of the media that channel four didn't take the opportunity to reset to show and take it a slightly different direction by bringing an ajella in. But what I love about it is actually the fact that it's still recognisably the bake off that we've all spent years and years following and loving the oven. They haven't messed with the recipe too much, but my goodness me, there's going to be some new sparkly candles and silver bowls on the top of it, I think, with this series. Look, I think the format works really well. And there will be some changes, but the format itself, I thought, was a really solid one. It's just that it had become, I think, through a process of changing hosts. And the hosts themselves becoming slightly tired of the format and the audience becoming slightly tired of the format, it had somehow become desiccated. It had somehow lost the juiciness of the thing. And I'm sorry, I'm sorry, my love, if you listen to this, but I have to say, if you want to add juiciness to anything, there is only one person to go.

5:10And that's for sure. And that's his name, Lose. Actually, I had tuned out of bake off. I think I hadn't watched it maybe six or seven years. Somewhere between format exhaustion and and prudence, supporting Brexit, but also complaining she now couldn't get tips, staff and some opinions being expressed that I really disliked, put me off it. And so the reason I am most thankful, I think, is that Nigella has pulled me back into a thing that I really used to enjoy everywhere. Welcome back to Njella's juicy goodness, Njella. Yes, exactly. Don't forget, please yourself. I don't have many skills, but eating is one of them. When I look at your cake, I just smile. The flavours are giving me a lot of pleasure. It's a big slice. I know you like neatness. I like a bit of goo. You see that looks irresistible, doesn't it? When you have a bit of salt and something, you're just singing your song. I'm in heaven. Looking good.

6:11Does it? Quiet, quiet. Now, yesterday we gazed through the lens of the UN General Assembly to look at Trump, Burnham, and all things global. Well, today we're back in Blighty, where we'll be digging into some stuff that didn't get as much coverage as Burnham's Chegos Shuffle. First up, we'll be jumping on a train to Brighton, where our very own Nany has been scuttling around the Lib Dem Conference. So you don't have to. Praise be, Niohui. And then we're going to cast a gaze towards Cardiff, where autumn term at the Senedd has at us all reaching for the popcorn. Thanks to, well, actually we'll probably let our guests explain what's been going on, because we're drawing but a fabulous will haward to unpack the political carry-on in comrie. So to Brighton first, and our own intrepid Niohui, we're split together, a dispatch from the front line of the Lib Dem Conference. Let's hear her take on what's been going down in the Empire of Ed Davy. I quiet, Brighton. It's me, Niohui. I'm coming to you from Brighton,

7:12where the Lib Dems are having their conference. I've just managed to find a quiet space in the main conference hotel to record a dispatch for you. I thought you might want to know the lay of the land as I see it. So I'm here on a Sunday. And why does that matter? Well, it's the day before the so-called business day, when numbers get swollen by lobbyists and public affairs consultants and journalists. So it's at the weekend when you get a chance to understand the true size of the thing, to meet the party faithful, the members and activists who descend from all over the country to debate policy motions on the conference floor, past policy. They're a very democratic conference. And it's also when you get to go to the French meetings on subjects that are very dear to the hearts of the party faithful, like electoral reform and of course Europe. About 80 or 90 delegates have just been to the best for Britain,

8:16French that I was chairing. And the title of the French was, bold or cautious, the Lib Dem dilemma on Europe. And we chose that topic because of the real tension between the parties members and voters, and its parliamentarians and professional campaign stuff. And of course, the Lib Dems are renowned for their pro-Europeanism. But at the moment, the policy leadership is stopping short of calling for membership of the EU and calling for membership of the Customs Union and single market. So I started the French by reminding delegates that when the party went into the 2019 general election on a very bullish slogan of Bollocks to Brexit, they only returned 11 MPs. And when in 2024, when they had a gentler or more cautious approach of only rejoining once

9:16the time is right, they returned 72 MPs. So that was a provocation. And before I invited our speakers to give their opening remarks, I asked the audience to raise their hands. I said, put your hands up if you think that the Lib Dem approach to Europe going into the next general election should be cautious. And I tried to count the hands. There were either three or four, no more than that. And so I then asked people to raise their hands if they thought it should be bold. Every other hand shot up. So the vast majority of the room was there because they think that the approach should be full throttled. Let's go back in. I of course did ask anyone if they didn't know, because as quote, right, listen, as you will know, when you offer polling questions through a proper polling company, don't know as always an option, no hands were raised at all.

10:16So our first speaker on the panel was Lisa Smart MP and she's the MP for Hazel Grove and holds the cabinet office spokesperson brief. So of course, it is in government where it is a cabinet office minister who leads on the EU UK relationship and that's Hamish Falkner who took over from Nick Thomas Simmons when Andy Burnham's government came in. So Lisa Smart effectively shadows Lou Hague, if you like. And Lisa Smart defended the current position of Customs Union and Single Market Stopping Short of Membership in a compelling way. She said that the voters that the Liberal Democrats need to win over in order to grow at the next election almost entirely live in areas of the country that heavily voted to leave in 2016 and remain a bit skeptical about Europe. Next up, we had Charlie Maynard MP, he's the MP for Whitney and he is the party's chief secretary

11:19to the Treasury spokesperson and he's a former entrepreneur so he really gets the trade friction that has been caused by leaving the EU and he made the point that it is up to pro-Europeans like the Lib Dems to take the case for EU membership directly to those very voters that Lisa Smart talked about and persuade them of it rather than go gently and he reminders of them too that he'd just come back from Norway where they're unhappy with their position of being outside the club yet in the single market and having rules dictated to them. And the final speaker was Baroness Julie Smith of Nounam and she is the party's dispensed spokesperson, an academic on European politics of many decades and a newly elected vice president to Aldi, the Liberal grouping of MEPs who of course, like Charlie Maynard, appealed for the party to be bolder, not least because of multiple global threats that we're facing.

12:23And the questions from the floor after those opening remarks were as wide ranging as you would expect, questions about the Iceland referendum, what had happened there, did that mean anything for pro-Europeanism here in the UK? They asked about the rise of fascism across Europe and Europe being a very different continent to the one that we left and whether we have to accept the euro and the shangan if we do indeed begin conversations with Brussels about reentry. And in fact, they really ought to just tune in to quiet riot because then they would have already known the answers to all those questions. And I ended the fringe by reciting a few words from the late Charles Kennedy. Have a little listen. We can forget you, Kip. We can forget the Tories. We can forget Labour. If the voice of rational pro-Europeanism is going to be heard, there's only one place it can come from and it should be us and it will be us. We have debating

13:24policies here this week where we're acknowledging unpopularity, things that we don't necessarily like, items that we've had to swallow, but we're doing it for the greater good. Well, for God's sake, on Europe, this is one that we believe in. This is one that is part of our DNA. This is what we should be passionate about. And if it makes us unpopular in certain quarters, let's be unpopular for what we care about and what we believe in and what defines us and what we think is best for our country. I'm happier to be unpopular for that than I am for some of the things that we're having as a result of the age of austerity in which we live. Let's go forward with these elections. Front foot, unequivocal, pro-Europe, Britain needs to hear it, Europe needs it and we believe it. Let's go for it. So after that rabble rousing fringe and before I came here to record my dispatch to you, I have managed to have some one-to-one's with various different

14:26Lib Dem MPs about their position on Europe, talking through all of the brilliant best for Britain polling and research that we've been publishing on a weekly basis over the last month, also, and more coming this week. And it clearly shows that sovereignty remains the soft underbelly of pro-Europeanism. And I used it to explain why that makes the current Lib Dem position potentially dangerous to attack from Brexitors because the rule-take-a-max position on the single market combined with outsourcing trade policy to Brussels if you are in a custom union is very unpopular with many of the voters that they're going to need to win over. But I haven't just had discussions about Europe. I've enjoyed conversations about devolution and local government reorganization as well as humanism and protecting hard-won freedoms that the American religious right in particular are throwing a lot of money in order to undermine here

15:31in the UK and across Europe. And later I'm going to have to go and have far too much Ryan with Ian Dunn who is also here, so wish me luck with that. He sends you all his love. But my main takeaway from the conference very sadly is just how small the turnout seems to be compared to years gone by. I mentioned that I'm here on a Sunday to really try and see what the true size of the party faithful is before the lobbyists descend. And you might ask why they come? Well, they come because although they have 72 MPs and that is far more than they've had in many recent years, it's their councilor base that is enormous and a lot of organizations that want to persuade councils and local government authorities of things really do value coming to the Lib Dem conference because it's actually often Lib Dem control councils that can change things in their direction. But it is small today without that professionalised conference go at in attendance.

16:36There's no cues at the bars for drinks. I haven't had to wait to be served anywhere, often at other party conferences and in years gone by at the Lib Dems there's kind of five, 10 people deeper about while you're trying to get served. And there's no shortage of seats, you can sit down anywhere. And the congregation do look even older and wider than before. And the only young people seem to be the staffers of the 72 MPs. The number of people of colour that I've spotted wearing a conference delegate Lanyard could be counted on one hand, frankly. And I think being stuck on low-digit national polling numbers might not hurt them in their target seats, but the risk for the Libra Democrat party is that I suppose small ideas can make for small parties. So they do need a more radical liberal offering to attract younger and more diverse audiences across the country if they are to grow. A lot of people, of course, have been asking me if I think a day view will

17:38be switched out before the next election. The MPs, I can tell you, do not seem to be up for it in large numbers. The members do. And he has put in a very decent shift. He's been leader for a long time now and led them to great success in 2024. But there is without a shadow of a doubt, a growing frustration among the party faithful that they could and should be penetrating national polling figures far higher than the current very low teams that they're scoring on a good day. So that's it from me. I will be back on the show next week and probably at the weekend too. I know that you're going to be hearing from our amazing Will Haywood on everything that's happening in Wales ahead of the Plaid. Can we conference next week? So quiet writers, I'm sorry not to be with you properly this week, but I thought you might enjoy a little vignette of what I've been seeing here at the Liberal Democrat Conference in Brighton. Quiet, quiet.

18:45Fall flavors are waiting for you at Whole Foods Market. Cozy Pigs all through the store, like maple leaf cookies from 365 brand. Swing by the bakery for pumpkin cheesecake, here for a limited time and pumpkin turmeric bread freshly baked every single day. Sip the season with 365 brand Cinnamon Spice Coffee and pumpkin spice creamer while you still can spice up fall at Whole Foods Market. Did you have a big take away from chicken joker? Are we back to juiciness and goodness again? Politically speaking, you know, I shouldn't say this by side when I heard Ed Davey diving headfirst into the tax cutting race. I understand why he's doing it. There's an element of desperation, I think, around Ed Davey now as the language, fourth or fifth, depending which pulls you follow. But firstly, his plans, his tax cutting plans assume that Britain can make money

19:53by engineering a meaningful return to proper trading roads with EU in no time at all, you know, 12 months, which is a blink of an eye in European terms. And I think probably even more importantly, he talked heavily about tax cutting and we live at a time when spending is under pressure across every department and when government debt is a huge concern, Davey's plans don't do anything to address these very real world issues and at a such. Sadly, they don't amount to anything other than storing up yet more problems for our younger listeners in the decades to come. He's in the race for short-term votes, but we're storing up medium and long-term problems here. And I was a bit disappointed if not entirely surprised by it. Did you have much more of an optimistic take, Alex? No, to be honest. I mean, my take is more optimistic than yours, in the sense that actually the total percentage support around the country doesn't massively mass it and Lib Dems never really

20:57did. Every time they've gone for a big push nationally, they've suffered in terms of seats. Yeah. Let's not forget they were doing well in the polling while Joe was leader and had some of the biggest donations while that was going on and then tanked in terms of how many seats they won. So that's never been the Lib Dems technique. I can't imagine they will be monitoring national polls and sweating about it. Any decent model that actually looks at contest seat by seat has them consolidating the record number of them. Bees, they have at the moment, endgaining a few more. So I don't think that will worry them at all. The reason I guess I'm glum about them is because they've become a little bit samey. You know, I watched quite a few speeches and they seem to all be in the mold of that sort of professional politician. They were saying exactly the things

21:59they needed to say had terrific message discipline and all of that. And I just think actually labor for all its problems, even for the facilities for all their problems. You know, if you listen to someone like Annalisa Dodds and Angela Rainer and Liz Kendall, you get three really different people from very different backgrounds with personalities and Googles. You know, that are bringing those ideas and are kind of fighting it out within that big tent. And I didn't get that sense with liberal democrats. And I think that kind of, it's not unity, you see, it's homogeneity. And I think that kind of homogeneity is not a good sign for a party actually. It seems to me that it stifles new ideas from percolating through and vital debates being had about the direction of the party. So I may be wrong. We'll investigate it more with them next week when she's looking for a firing crockle. And has seen more of it. But that's just my impression. My impression

23:02was one of homogeneity actually. This is a pasteurised party that will do all right, but has no potential for making cheese. Quiet, quiet. And now it's time for our listener, Faith, when we found out what's caused a rash on the fash. Rico then banjos, it's time for Wookie Duky. I'm Loni. Rufu mori, a woke potty. When is the end of this? Fucking grown-ups! I don't like to put chemicals in the water to turn the friggin' frog's gay. They're eating the dogs, they're eating the cats. These days you get arrested and thrown in jail if you say you're English, don't you? Alex has grand high pooh-ba of Wookie Dukyness. What gifts do you bring this week? Sure, I've got to put him out, bye. Well, I actually gave you a little clueless in the last segment because today we're talking about cheese. The Thilamuk dairy is an Oregon establishment. I cannot emphasize enough just how

24:10beloved the Thilamuk company is in Oregon and around the United States, actually. Whenever we make jokes about Americans not doing proper cheese, you have to kind of put in brackets Thilamuk accepted because they really are, first of all, they're a farmer-owned cooperative. They've been around since 1909. So they are a group of farmers that come together. They do things properly. They age stuff. It's not processed. They have one loads of international awards. They really are the exception. And so you would have thought that a beloved company like that has never, ever had a political stigma, by the way. And I think that is another thing that sets them apart. They don't donate to parties. They're just not in that arena. Uh-oh. Well, I feel a bot coming on here. Yeah, there's a big bot coming on. I love big bots and I cannot lie. Yeah. I don't even want to say they did this now because actually they didn't do

25:13this now. They've been using non-animal rennets as many many cheese companies do so that cheese is not vegan because without you, you'd have to not use milk. But vegetarian. And it's also both halal and kosher. They've got the little stamp on the back of a packet that says that this is okay for all you people with these kinds of dietary restrictions. But Maga only just noticed them afraid. Something that happened several years ago. And they have not taken well to this. Despite it being yes, it's the company changed to using halal and kosher rennet. Some woman just hung out and thought that I'm not making this up. This is the quote. This is how the take over stars. And thousands up on thousands soon followed suit posting photos and videos of them throwing away cheese that they had paid to buy. Let's have a little listen. And here in public right now,

26:13just shopping for some cheese slices. And I want to show you all this. See that little simple right there. It's a certified halal Islamic food. Okay, I had to test this and see it for myself. Here's a block of tilumuk cheese. I got it from Costco. And if we turn it over, let's just take a look. There it is right there. Certified halal is Islamic food and nutrition counsel of America. American brands are slapping halal on the packaging. Like it is just another barcode. Tillumuk. An American dairy company now stamped certified halal. And they admit that the majority of their cheeses are halal certified. So no, this is not just yogurt. This is not just cheese. This is their food system being pushed onto our shelves. One of America's top selling cheese brand just went Islamic. If you're a Christian and you don't know what the halal symbol on food really means, I encourage you to look it up. The animals, it is essentially sacrificed to all of now.

27:13The thing is, when you see brands with that label on it, they're catering to those people. For what reason? I don't know. Well, what about kosher? Well, that is not the gacha you think it is. It's a choice on a shelf. Not a lecture for the rest of the store. This is how a tape over starts. Little steps. Then bigger steps. Then it's just a little bit late to say you didn't notice. This is America telling you to fuck off. This is where my Tillumuk cheese is going right here in the fucking garbage. What made this halal? Was it that there was no enzymes from animals? Or hear me out? Was this cheese produced from cows that were properly slaughtered according to Sharia law? So, when you're going to get Tillumuk, you have to ask yourself the question. Did they get around the rules of Islam or did they somehow manage to slaughter cows to pander to Sharia law? I'm not going to really find out myself. Probably not going to buy it anymore. But we don't give a fuck about Sharia law. This is America. So, you can shove this cheese up your ass.

28:14Now, Kenny, I know you will have mixed feelings about this because you hate old teas. But I ask you to poke your feeble digestive system issues to one side and engage with this utter madness for a moment. Someone thinks using non-animal rennet means Tillumuk sacrifices animals to Allah. Of course they too. Of course they're flipping too. And then they're going out and buying this company's cheese and then sort of posting videos of them trampling it or setting fire to it or whatever. They're having, you could say they're having a cheese meltdown which actually sounds quite nice. I think of it more as being a make America not breed again. They make America greater. Greater, yes. There is no area it seems that is safe from this culture war. Idiotcy that is sweeping the world and especially the state. So this week

29:18cheese is woke. It was only a matter of time, wasn't it? It was, wasn't it? Truly, walkie-talkie is the cheesy, really gift that just keeps on giving listeners. If you spot any examples of walkie-talkie that come even close to that. And this one was sent in by a listener by the way. Thank you, listener. You're nameless but you have our love. If you've got any similar walkie-talkie stories, do pass them on to us at quietriapod at gmail.com and you might just hear them on here next week. Quiet, quiet. Starting or growing your own business can be intimidating and lonely at times. Your to-do list may feel endless with new tasks and lists can easily begin to overrun your life. So finding the right tool that not only helps you out but simplifies everything as a built-in business partner can be a game changer. For millions of businesses, that tool is Shopify. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world and 10% of all

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31:45Ryan. Right, to Wales now where reform UK has spent the past week demonstrating that becoming new official opposition is considerably easier than behaving like the official opposition. Reform came out of May's Senate elections with 34 seats and for the first time a serious institutional foothold in British politics. Then on Tuesday last week, TikTok TikTok, their Welsh leader Dan Thomas resigned after being arrested on suspicion of assault and controlling or coercive behaviour. He was bailed depending on other inquiries and says he's done nothing wrong. On the very same day reform MS Sierra Cooper Lessoth defected to plight comrade, saying her former party was more interested in division and headlines than in governing Wales of course she said that. So on Monday this week, Nigel Farage unveiled Helen Jenner, who'd beaten Jason O'Connor by just 17 votes to 15 can a ballot of reforms Senedd Group.

32:51Now to explain quite what is going on Alex spoke on Tuesday to our team Welsh politics expert journalist and author Will Hayward because it is his professional misfortune to understand such things as this. I will welcome back to quiet right next to have you as always. Thanks so much for having me. It's always good to be on. It's been a quiet summer in Wales politics wise and then suddenly it all went very very hectic didn't it in the last couple of weeks. More recently now we've had the new leader unveiled. It's it's a lady called Helen Jenner. Do we know much about Helen Jenner? So Miss Jenner is a North Wales MS, a Welsh speaker. She has been a long time Farage ally dating back over a decade to the UKIP date. So she is she is a kind of long term true believer within the party. She was voted as leader by the reform Senedd members but I think this is quite important.

33:52The votes inside the group were not overwhelming like she got 17 votes to Jason O'Connor who was the other person running against her. He got 15 so 17 to 15 is very very very close. Obviously if that was a Brexit vote that would be the overwhelming view of the public. It's interesting that it is a seriously divided group. I mean I sources within the party in the Senate said to me that they could see another leadership election in six months time. Even before Dan Thomas the lead the former leader of reform in Wales was Nathan Gill. He was currently in prison for taking Russian bribes. So reform leaders have not had long jeopardy. There's been some and it's been mired in kind of controversy. So it's a very challenging group to manage because you know we've just seen a defection but also they have pulled together a real disparate group. You've got the very ambitious. You've got former Tories who've switched over. You've got long-term reform members who in many

34:56cases don't really see I do I with a lot of the kind of conservatives that they see is coming and usurping their position. So it's a really tough group for Miss Jenner to manage. So again I mean this is something we see in big local authorities across England as well. We'll you know we see the same sort of politics play out in Durham play out in Kent County Council. There's always those two groupings the original gang and the Johnny Cum Laetlis usually from the Tories. You know arguably we're seeing that play at the national stage as well with Timon Gummary being shoved out of the party with this reported feud between the use of end Robert Generic. So it doesn't surprise me that there is a reflection of that going on in the Senate but 15 to 17 is not a big margin. Two people threw their hat in the ring as I understand it Miss Jenner was Nigel Farragis pick and I mean Dan Thomas when he was chosen to be the leader most of the reform

36:01members in the audience at the press conference were googling who he was although he is well she'd been in Barnett Council for a very long time and I think it was also her saying like reform slash UKIT in Wales were kind of falling out with each other before it was cool I mean back in 2016 there was Neil Hamilton in Northern Ireland. That's the greatest hit. Are you concerned that this group is what UKIT did here in 2016 which was sort of slowly and then we've quite some bigger fall apart. Well I have to say I thought the caliber of that particular group of individuals not very high I thought very differently about this group. As far as Sarah's concerned I just don't know what's in the mind I find it very very odd. Those vetting procedures we've all talked about we've heard a lot about in relation to the Senate. Are you going to review them given Sarah? Are people as a parent a very different political tactic or party? No I did know what's going on in her mind. I just don't know what she's thinking. Mark Reckless who was an MS in 2016 between 2016. Oh God, Mark Reckless. He did the really impressive thing between 2016 and 2021.

37:03He was a member of five different parties. He was UKIT reform. He sat with the Tories. He was then joined the abolished assembly party and then sat as an independent. I mean it was incredible. She started off as a Tories so that's definitely one of the five. Nigel Farage's pick could only just about get one more than the other side effectively because otherwise it would have been a 16-16. That to me is quite striking because it declares an unruliness internally in the party not just to each other but also towards HQ. Normally I think if you went to any other situation, Farage's choice would be that party's choice overwhelmingly. They take the lead from him but not Wales it seems. Yeah well I think that's a really personal point because polling came out actually just last week which showed like favorability ratings for different political leaders. Nigel Farage's personal favorability in Wales is absolutely plummeted. He's

38:06about negative 30 way behind anyone else in Wales and I think Mr Farage is not now seen as a kind of guaranteed vehicle for advancement and when a lot of people have joined this party as a vehicle for their advancement and they are now seeing the scandals around donations. MSS and reform politicians in Wales are seeing him as potentially a hindrance and actually there was a small, were very driven reform group within Wales before Farage came back to the party and some of them were quite deeply resentful of the fact that they were kind of sideline as the Farage is kind of back control of the party from Richard Tice. So I think we have not seen the last bit. I wouldn't be surprised if we saw a few defectors to restore over the coming months or what I think is potentially more likely is several reform MSS is sitting as an independent group because if you can get five people as an independent group you can form your own group within the Senate and then that has a lot of a benefit in terms of the leader will get a massively increased salary it will be worth tens

39:09of thousands of pounds for the personal question. So there will be a financial driver for this as well. And not just skip forwards because we will talk about that one defection but that would also make a massive difference to the arithmetic inside the Senate because at the moment Clyde Cumbry is not that far short. The opposition has to be basically really united to resist Clyde Cumbry and if three or four or five people join other parties or sit as independent and don't vote in one block that makes life presumably quite a bit easier for Clyde doesn't it? Yeah so at the moment Clyde and the Greens together are three short of a majority it was four after the most recent defections now three because the Tories and Reform have pretty much steadfast and they are not going to work with Clyde it means that Clyde have had to really only had a labor as an option but if there was to be an independent group of three or more MSS that left reform and

40:10sat on their own they were just simply to abstain from votes that could make things easier for them or at least give Clyde other options within the Senate because at the moment they are in a tricky position because normally they can't get anything through especially the budget without labor support and I've said previously in my newsletter that Clyde aren't used to governing and labor aren't used to being in opposition in Wales. Yeah and we talked about it even before the election didn't we will that the psychological space that you need to be in order to be a coalition partner or something like that it's just not something that labor in Wales have ever been in they've always been in charge and so it's very very tricky for them to suddenly get accustomed to not being in charge. Let's talk about that defection I read the statement and the statement made zero sense to me and I read the statement to my partner who's my kind of weather-way.

41:13Sounding those. Yes, my sounding board for people who are interested in politics but not obsessive about it and he couldn't understand that either there was a lot of stuff in there that explained the decision to defect that was really very clear about reform before she even joined. Explain it to me like I'm a five-year-old please will. So Sarah Kuflussard went from as you say from reform to applied comery. She said that she'd grew up in the care system and stood to be a voice for care experienced people who were badly underrepresented. She argued that she felt that reform had no interest in actually being a serious opposition and that they just wanted to oppose for opposition's sake. She also said that she was concerned about some of the rhetoric around immigrants and she also said she didn't like their anti-divolution stance. Now we live in a world where we should hope that you know people are able to change their opinions but and I think this is quite key like she ran on a

42:19platform on a manifesto for reform which if you'd seen the manifesto you would see any of the messaging they were putting out before the election. It cannot possibly have come as a surprise the reformer anti-immigration, anti-divolution and really only saw the Senedd as a staging post to get Nigel Farage into Downing Street and I think it is perfectly reasonable to say how has this changed in the last three months? You know what has changed and Miss Kuflussard has sat inside the chamber while certain reform MS has given some pretty inflammatory speeches about for instance Sudanese people there was one point where a MS called Joe Martin was joking about well children not being able to read. Sarah Kuflussard was very uncomfortable with that so she said that she couldn't read until the age of seven and that those comments by that reform MS really struck home with us so well the argument she would make is yes I was aware but being around that environment in those meetings in those strategy discussions made her feel very uncomfortable

43:24and brought it home in a more real way. Obviously there is also a question for Plaid Cymru here in the you know do you want to bring in people who until very recently were ex-bousing views which are the opposite of what you profess to believe and there was actually I understand a vote among Plaid MS's about whether they would go ahead with doing that they did vote pretty overwhelming as I understand it to allow her to join. I think it probably helps that she's a young woman and I mean she was clearly quite visibly isolated in the on the reform benches so I don't know how much a personal element played a part in Plaid's decision but I also imagine in a purely kind of political Machiavellian standpoint part of it was about the risk of the taking side the Senate like another person on the Plaid benches is helpful. Will Hayem we had on last week who is expert in local government and community organizing said something to me which was interesting in light of this he said that he meets a lot of people in local government councillors parish

44:25councillors Ivan that were sort of attracted to reform UK because of that word reform and have come in genuinely because they want to change things I mean whatever you can disagree with their politics but they've coming with a real will to change things in their local community and they're now finding what the political environment within reform is like and that's where you've seen quite so many defections resignations people sitting as independent from reform at council level I think the rate at the moment is one every four days that might be what we're seeing here as well this might be someone who was genuinely attracted to the idea of being the non establishment activist party that makes a difference and comes in and finds actually an establishment political environment with a lot of interpersonal dynamics and factionalism etc playing out and maybe she was genuinely put

45:30off by that I don't want to assign cynical motives to someone I can't see inside their mind she seems sincere enough but like I said reading her letter of resignation I was left wondering did you have any conversation with anyone else in that party before you joined because you know none of this in a failure in all that stuff none of it was secret right I have real sympathy for people who look at the current situation in Wales with such high levels of child poverty you know the lowest standard housing in the UK the longest waiting list the worst educational outcomes and saying that something needs to change I always say that organization in Wales are scared to bite the hand that stabs them I think that is a real issue and I have sympathy with people who wanted to find a vehicle for change but reform after despite their protestations to the country they are not a new party they are just changing the different hat and wearing a different coloured rosette we've seen them as the Brexit party we've seen them as you keep we know what they do and how they operate and while I have sympathy for wanting the change I think it's pretty naive if you see reformers this kind of upstart

46:37vehicle for doing things differently in a meaningful way yeah and what about going the other way so with implied comery I can understand the political reasons and even the mathematical reasons that this would be very attractive to them but has there been any noises off from implied comery people going what is this person doing in our party or is everyone willing to embrace I guess the narrative that a young person is allowed to change their mind and see the light in terms of MS's I think I mean the overwhelming majority voted to allow her to enter but I don't think that means there isn't kind of skepticism and I think there's going to be a real need for Sarah Kublazad to prove her credentials to drink the Kool-Aid to show that she is on board with the Omnely being part of a party which isn't just pro-divolution they ultimately want independence and they've been vocal about that and he's written into their very DNA so yeah because people have accepted her in doesn't mean that she now is one of us if that makes sense from that point of

47:40you it will be interesting towards over the next few months I think what happens there now final thing I wanted to talk to you about we've seen the first set of Welsh polling since the Senate election there was one big poll done for iTV comery by YuGov which has some quite striking results the most striking of all I think is the difference between senate voting intention and Westminster voting intention can you talk me through it yeah so Wales has always been quite interesting when it comes to voting in devolved elections compared to how people vote in senate elections so you would have lots of people who would vote labor in a kind of Westminster election that might go over to applied in a senate election the latest polling does show that more people are voting Welsh Labour in a Westminster election for in a senate election so for the Welsh Parliament but overwhelmingly Labour are still in a really really tricky position they're

48:40polling at 13% compared to applied to 32 if there was a Senate election to be held if there's a Westminster one they go from 13 to 18% applied drop to 27% but really Labour are still in a I mean at the moment Labour have 27 of Wales is 32 seats under this latest polling they would drop 17 of those 27 seats that go down to just 10 and I think the key thing to take away from it is Andy Burnham has seen a bounce all across the UK but in Wales I think Wales has suddenly become a very different beast for Labour so it was very hard for Labour to lose votes in Wales before this election but it does feel like it's going to be now now the people have in significant numbers left Labour it's going to be harder for them to get them back when it will be in other parts of the UK and that might be because Labour have been dominating Wales for so long people have lived under Labour for a very long time in Wales compared to England Labour will be pretty disappointed with

49:44how their vote is looking inside Wales still I mean it is moving in the right direction I guess but they would have wanted the movement to be more pronounced I think what Labour might look at from that ground of polling and take quite a lot of heart is that the personal approval ratings for Andy Burnham are quite strong within Wales and also I think most importantly and this really surprised me the satisfaction people satisfaction with the sort of job government is doing is almost unchanged it's almost exactly what it was before the election even though there's someone else in charge so yeah it's very strange polling I mean I see they're not cutting pride much slack is what I guess I'm saying and Labour will be looking at that and think to themselves well you know those voters are only going to go in one direction what's interesting is people in Wales seems to think the Welsh Government is still doing a terrible job

50:47even though it's now led by pride. Plyde's vote share has only dropped by one percentage point so what I know is actually happening is I think people in Wales are still conflating the Welsh Government and the issues Wales has with Welsh Labour what will be really interesting is when we get kind of the other side of Christmas and pride of you know they're not the new kids on the block and you know they have promised pretty big changes to Wales and if people aren't feeling it in their day to day lives I think that that is when Plyde's approval might start to slip or if Plyde pick a visible fight with the UK Government and say well the reason we're not able to fix these issues is because Andy Burnham isn't giving us X, Y and Zed we could see a situation like we had with the S&P where Scotland has some really big challenges in public services but the S&P of over the last kind of decade also been very successful in shunting that blame over to successive Westminster Yeah and I think Burnham because devolution is so at the core of his agenda I think he will be

51:47even more vulnerable than other administrations to that charge of being uncooperative and playing pork barrel politics so it will be an interesting card to play that has risks on both sides you know because again if people think actually Burnham has been quite open to devolution and quite collaborative with the other governments people make their enjudgments the most notable thing is how much reform have dropped especially when you're talking about Western instead of voting intention that is a double digit plummet now isn't it it's very notable I mean reform are really I mean they're sliding substantially the challenge that they have with the Westminster elections is that because in Welsh elections it is a more proportional system people are more inclined to just vote for the party that they want whereas in a Westminster election there's a lot of people who will just vote to stop reform and I think in a way that is presenting a bit

52:49of a challenge for Labour because for so long if you wanted to stop it used to be the Tories it's now reform if you wanted to stop them you just voted for Labour whereas now actually in lots of seats actually you're better off voting for plight if all you want to do is stop reform so every calculation that all of these parties have kind of rested on for so long are now kind of up in the air and I think it makes things very very hard to predict which reminds me a geeky point because the system has changed now if I remember correctly the member that has defected came from the list just about just about okayish when you're talking about constituency MPs changing sides in a first past the post system but if you're talking about a proportional representation list when no one voted for this person specifically they voted for a party and she has no cross she hasn't even become an independent she's crossed to their diametric opposite of that party

53:49in every conceivable way socially economically in terms of evolution does that still reflect the people who voted the new system in the well center elections I think is an absolute front to kind of the idea of democracy but just an enormous wasted opportunity it's a closed list system where each party put forward candidates for each area and then they just got elected based on where they were on that list nobody says I wanted Sarah Cooper La Sard they just put an extra reform and she was at the top of their list and as you say all those people who put their ex next to reform now have a person who is representing a party who is completely opposed to that now reformed themselves probably I'm going to have a leg to stand on complaining because under the previous system they had a conservative senate member called Laura Anjones who was elected on a conservative list go over towards them affected to them so reform can't complain but I think what's frustrating about the system that Wales introduced is the only thing the British democracy really did well was have a

54:50link between the constituent and the person representing them and what we've done is break that link there's also lots of questions like what happens if reform splits what happens if the party itself changes you know I mean we've we've seen reforms change the name and the entire party over the course of a senate term before so that's the problem with these list systems is that it captures a moment in time and then the individuals involved who've been elected on that list can kind of do whatever they like it's interesting it's interesting I didn't see this coming I have to say but that's why it's a pleasure as always to talk to you will about this stuff and I think we are you know we I feel we're getting to the stage where we have trained up our listenership to actually not just be interested in it but recognize that it reflects sometimes a microcosm of what might be harder to distinguish in a larger context it's actually a really important place to be looking at so thank

55:53you will as always for coming to us thank you for having me and thank you for taking way also seriously and giving respect I think it deserves because it's so often overlooked in wider media and I think you guys you don't just take an interest like you've you've done your homework before we chat and all that sort of stuff so well yeah thanks have a minute and when we're saying just before we started recording that next time we really must have your partners in for Wales C Wales your podcast because I feel they're being left out of this and I really would love to have the the whole trio show up one time oh we should do a collab that'd be great yeah let's do that all right we'll do your comment thank you Ryan Reynolds here for Mint Mobile with your summer price forecast now unfortunately we're seeing rising costs across the country with possibility that big wireless hates you 100% now over here at Mint Mobile we're seeing sunny skies and dropping prices every plan to just $15 a month give it a try

56:56min mobile com slash switch up from payment of $45 for three months $90 for six months or $180 for 12 month plan required $15 per month equivalent taxes and fees extra new customer offer for initial plan term only greater than 50 gigabytes may slow and network is busy see terms quiet Ryan I think in the first six months we've established ourselves as a very effective opposition and I have to say Dan Thomas I thought was doing a brilliant job I am sorry for his personal difficulties that he's going through no one's life is ever seamless and I'm quite sure he will come out of these before too long but it was pretty much untenable for him to continue as leader whilst he had these domestic disputes going on so we very quickly and rapidly have moved to electing a new leader and as you can see Helen Jenner is now the leader she's a determined campaigner someone that I trust and I think it's going to do a very very good job and we will carry on as if nothing had happened we could have done without this bump in the road

58:01but it's happened we're making the best of it and we're now in the very capable hands of Helen can me tell me so a new leader has been appointed that's that isn't it oh yes problem over isn't it well how many you think so wouldn't you however you did miss one or two things but only because if you're in ability to time travel because while you and we'll we're discussing reforms problems with the internal division reform were a part of the busy create again more problems with internal division in our defense Kenny we'd have to do a sort of rolling podcast where you know the camera is running constantly on youtube and we just appear every 10 minutes weary going oh yeah you're not saying episode 275 and still only Monday live broadcast started 3000 hours again well look because what you guys were recording Laura and Jones was elected as the deputy leader of reform in Wales she wasted no time in coming things time

59:06only kidding within 24 hours she went onto BBC Radio Wales and publicly contradicted her own colleague one James Evans are you keeping up with his listeners Evans he had pulled out of the leadership race last week claiming that most reform MS is actually wanted him to be leader even though he was pulling out go figure Jones she's a new deputy leader she essentially said no they didn't she called that claim misleading and said to she didn't recognize his version of events so Evans who'd stuck time from the leadership race he then replied that actually what he'd had was a quote considerable support so the man who withdrew from the leadership contest because he feared creating unnecessary division has somehow managed to create division without even standing in the flipping leadership contest I mean that's generally quite impressive that is quite impressive isn't it so reform Wales has got a new leader and you deputy

1:00:08one fewer MS and an argument about who secretly wanted a completely different leader that is just as you recorded the interview can I ask you something isn't Laura and Jones the one that got in trouble for using a racial slur in a WhatsApp group oh that was then leaked I'm pretty sure she was suspended from the Senate was it while she now just after she defected so she used to be a Tory de facto reform in the summer of 2025 and then was suspended from the Senate that autumn for using a racial slur to describe Chinese people in a WhatsApp group that was leaked and she apologized and was restored once upon a time I've been surprised at this and now I would be surprised that it wasn't our political journey but it's interesting that she is the second best reform Wales have right now they're just in meltdown and this was actually the crux

1:01:10of the person who defected I mean eyebrows were raised as I discussed with Will about her defecting straight from reform to Clyde and some of the reasoning she gave like these people are very negative about foreigners in its life well hello did you read your manifesto even after you've watched the news so yes there were eyebrows raised about that but there was one bit of a resignation letter that I think rang very true to me and it was that these people are not interested in governing they're not interested in doing anything for Wales reform Wales is basically just a stepping stone for Nigel Farage to get into Downing Street it has no other function and so the people in it are trying to position to do exactly what we're talking about was the problem with all the financial scandals which is they're trying to impress the emperor because reform UK is not a party it is

1:02:11a court with a king and various ministers advisors first ladies etc trying to impress the king what is all it is it's depressing isn't it that for so many of the people involved in this political project the job itself is the end point long I'll be lying if I said it was surprising no and I have to say I'm loving it popcorn now and now it's that time of the episode where we revisit a story that we think is terribly new and terribly fresh only to find out it's happened all before it's time for old news the news of yesterday Kenny as the doya of old news because of your background in news and your advanced stage what have you ready what have you got for us today I don't drag myself off this one comes from this

1:03:17I like to think of you like Barbara Cartland reclined you didn't think of me at all I'm kind of in a divine I don't want to be judging the way secretary okay so what is it what what have you got for us so this one comes from one of our listeners Sam Pierce and I absolutely love it because Sam has inadvertently unearthed a piece of my own childhood with this old news oh wow yeah after all the excitement over Piddington declaring independence last week well Sam has written to us to point out that a tiny village in the Scottish Highlands had already done it properly on July the 16th 1988 the southern village of Embo and its populations about 300 it declared independence from the whole united kingdom and unlike Piddington Embo had clearly thought through the important bits so Embo in 1988 appointed a prime minister called David Donald Ward it had a cabinet it even set up a customs post and a border patrol and established

1:04:19its parliament in the pub at a place called Granny's Healing Him wow fabulously is the name of the campsites static out of Ann place or I spent many childhood summer holidays what's the name what's the name Granny's Healing Him there's a dreadful song that begins where the Heather bells are blooming just outside Granny's door and it gets worse it's one of those heated them hold them songs that were written by English people who'd never seen ballooning parpa up hella how do we Granny's Healing Him the campsites with this static out of Ann's I spent childhood summer holidays on endless sandy beaches reading bino summer specials and it must be said periodically for reason my bollocks off in North Sea because it's a chilly damn place the whole thing about their independence though was actually quite quite a magnificent fundraising stunt embo's primary school closed and the villages needed to raise some money so that they could turn it into a community center so they declared independence for a day visitors had to buy visas

1:05:20cars they were stopped and starts for contraband specifically I like this specifically for lemons because they might sorrow your visit ho ho ho and poloments because poloments ruin the taste of whiskey but I'm leaning into this independence big time this is fantastic it's amazingly well organized and even more importantly the new sovereign nation introduced its own currency called the Cudi and one Cudi was worth 50p and this is quite crucial a Cudi could be exchanged at Granny's Healing for a measure of the local cline leash more whiskey so embo briefly looks to have had what might be the sound is monetary policy in British history yeah apparently according to the the press and journal which is the newspaper that I started my journalistic career on even the Queen was consulted and approved independence although only for one day my great-satcher also gave cautious approval I mean more of the chances yeah embo built on this later it created his

1:06:20Olympic Games it addicts neighbouring times during Galaday's with fake tanks it produced a national anthem and it even twins itself with a community in Hawaii one of the bits I really like is its prime minister at one point ordered the clocks to go back when the rest of the Britain of Britain put them forward purely to extend pub opening hours this sounds magnificent isn't I'm struggling to see why they ever rejoined the United Kingdom anyway the fundraising war it's the old school did he eventually become embo's community centre because he raised thousands of pounds and almost four decades later embo still has its own officially registered red yellow and blue flags so thank you sam pierce for revealing that while the rest of Britain was arguing about fatturism in 1988 I was apparently spending my holidays in a whiskey bag breakaway republic isn't that just wonderful Alex I find that extraordinary if that it's not better known and that it wasn't discussed in the pittington context so a properly good old news that and exactly what the feature was about they also appear to be more

1:07:23organized than our friends from reform in the senate don't they to be honest when you're in the highlands you gotta be organized or die as I understand it if you want proper risk management and organizational flowcharts go to areas that get regularly blocked by snow and you will find the best organizers up and down any given country separatism for the highlands thank you can you listen as ever we'll drop a link in the show no so you can check out that old news story for yourself and that is the end of today's beside show thanks to everyone who's chained in and if you can help support the show head over to keo-afi.com slash quiet riot pod for five or a month so we can keep bringing the show free to everyone at the same time regardless of their ability to pay we'll be back on sunday with our more relaxed mulling of the political culling and before that you have a

1:08:25brand new podcast launching follow the link in the shaynets or just search for how do you solve a problem like everything wherever you get your podcast and subscribe now so that tomorrow morning Saturday morning the first episode drops in your inbox we love all of you very much indeed we really bye quiet riot quiet riot is an audio production from kula heads written produced by Alex androo name Smith and Kenny Campbell music by mariana sanquita artwork by samurna canelo and as hit by me Alex Reese quiet riot yeah okay good uh so staying here not music climax if i can only if the music i'd been going all this time it's the second side of the LP the script for Alex okay

1:09:26ryan riddles here for mint mobile with your summer price forecast now unfortunately we're seeing rising costs across the country with possibility that big wireless hates you 100 percent now over here at mint mobile we're seeing sunny skies and dropping prices every plan to just $15 a month give it a try at minmoble.com slash switch up from payment of $45 for three months $90 for six months or $180 for 12 month plan required $15 per month equivalent taxes in these extra new customer offer for initial plan term only greater than 50 gigabytes me slow when it work is busy c terms five dollar drinks 10 for ten dollar wings every sunday monday and thursday only at david busters now this is football other restrictions may apply visit david busters.com for full terms and conditions