BUILD THE STATUE: Ben Johnson, Chicago Bears Offense Back Up The Hype | CHGO Bears After Dark

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1:02So grab a bite, grab a seat and earn unlimited 3% cash back with the Saver Card. Capital One, what's in your wallet? Terms apply, see Capital One.com for details Welcome back to CHO Bears after dark. Oh, I'll explain the welcome back thing later. That's a funny conversation for deep lock, but I know my god Jake is laughing right now. I am your host Greg Bregg Jr. alongside me as always is my good friends and co-host here on On CHO Bears after dark. That is Shane Marseaux and Phil Atotian from the tape never lies network and our friendship began with our love for the bears.

2:02And it's culminated into a lot of podcasts, a lot of conversations, but never have we ever had a conversation on a Monday after a game where the Chicago Bears scored eight touchdowns. So we're going to get into all the all the stuff. I know you guys want to fix the bears and all the things that we want to get to win a Super Bowl, but I need you guys. We're going to focus on the positives to start because there are a plenty. And it was an exciting game. And I know you two of all people and how much you wear your hearts on your sleeves. How much the game like yesterday meant to you to and how long we've all been waiting for a moment like yesterday. Yeah, man, keeping it positive. I was positively shocked that car and picked the bear's to lose. So yeah, man, got it. Well, you shouldn't be at this point. Yeah, no, I get it. I get it. It was fun, man. It's it was one of those things. Listen, I'm I think a defensive guy at heart. And I know we can get into that later. We've pounded. We beat that.

3:07Of course. Whoa, there you go. Are you? Am I being played off the show? At the Grammys. Yeah. ranks, ranks segment just got 20 minutes longer. See you later, everybody. No, this isn't not at the Apollo. You're not being played off. I will not touch that button. Great. Doesn't know how to produce. We'll start them with the goldfish. But anyway, back to the game. That's right. Yeah. No, it was fun, man. It just it was one of those things, Greg, where I think in the beginning when Luther fumbled the ball and the holding penalties. Probably 98% of the fan bases like here we go. This is the same old bears. I saw some TikTok videos today, alluding to that. But guess what? We're good enough to overcome those. We have a unicorn at quarterback. We have a maniacal unicorn at head coach and things are different. This is not the same old bears. We're good enough to overcome mistakes. We're good enough to overcome a defense. That's not good enough.

4:13And it's just these times. Greg, you and I had a had a phone conversation offline last night. And I think you actually put it perfectly. So I'll give you props here. Bears fans are afraid to admit that the bears are really good and that they are good enough because they don't want to jinx it. Well, let's go in. Let's let's as fans. Let's fan with confidence like Caleb Williams and Luther Burton and Colston, love land and and Darnell, right. Are playing out there. Let's play with let's fan with that confidence like Ben Johnson wants us to be know what we today as bears fans, we should pop our chest out a little bit. We should laugh at the Peter Bukowski's of the world that are coping in every sense of the word because trying to tear Caleb down for what he did. You see one off, you know, center pass and that's going to be the focus of your discussion on it. No, let's pop our chest out.

5:13And let's get ready for this Super Bowl run because that's that's the culmination of all of this. And I feel very confident that the bears are good enough to make a dent in this whole thing. Defense has me worried, but we'll get into that later. We will get into the defense here later on me and Phil, we're talking on the phone and we're ready to go 12 rounds here later on on the jail and Johnson discussion. And I'm excited for that because it's an important one. But Phil, I know you had a busy schedule yesterday. You're coaching your own football team to a big win and a blow out win. And then Ben Johnson said, all right, I'll see if I can try to score more than the young bucks out there in Connecticut. And I think he somehow found a way even though they were going up against a playoff team from last year, but that had to be pretty satisfying for you to get home and watch that that performance. Yeah, the hardest thing was to keep everybody from telling me what the score was because everybody was on the sideline wanting to tell me all this stuff.

6:16But one like update from Chicago Bears.com got through at the end of the third quarter. And I'm like, wait, what the score is that? And we still have another quarter to go. But getting to watch it all back, the positives is the run game. And I've always said this on our network. And I've said it and preached it many, many times. Everything offensively starts through the run game. It'll never change no matter what air raid, new style, new found offense comes to town in the NFL with the greatest athletes play for pay. You have to be able to dominate the line of scrimmage and Ben as Shane called them. And I said a necessary penicillin in Chicago was a maniacal head coach that hold everybody to a standard that they placed winning before any other objective. And this guy is everything about that.

7:25And to see his run game personnel motions and usage. Be used on display with both those backs really attacking aggressively. And with great instincts. It was beautiful to watch how that sets up the run game. I mean, the past game. And everything you have with what Shane and called the unicorn at quarterback. It just was a beautiful showcase of everything coming together all at once in a beautiful magical display of football going back to our show here Greg with the Willy Wonka commentary. He opened up the offensive chocolate factory yesterday and was able to put all of the ever lasting worry and doubt on bears fans to rest because I'm like, this is unbelievable. What they're doing offensively in year two is outstanding. And I have never seen eight touchdowns for the best of my life. And I honestly couldn't believe it.

8:37But seeing his believing Greg and Shane and it really was unbelievable. Everybody got involved except Colston leveling. It's I blame Caleb for that one throw to him. Yeah, I felt like he needed to hit that throw. I don't I've never seen a ball look like an Australian boomerang like it did in that throw. I was like, what the heck? I don't know if he was like trying to change because he thought he was going to settle, but then go and it threw it weird. But you know, we hold everybody accountable, Greg. So I can hold the great Caleb Williams accountable to on that one bad throw. Even the check down. I felt like he could have waited. He threw it to the manungai. If I remember right, but none guy ends up turning up the field and pick it up like 15 16. But if he waited and just hit lovedland,

9:41lovedland, I think would have gotten his catch and a big run afterwards. Lloyd's legends here in the chat says I'm a loose fantasy this week because of lovedland and that goose egg that he posted. I have lovedland and burden on my team with manungai on my bench. Yeah. And somehow the Bears scored 60 points and Luther and Colson are to the find their way into the end zone. I know, right. Frank has been getting a million messages about that. He'll have thoughts on that coming up here in a little bit. And you mentioned, you know, Deandra. So you spoke pretty eloquently there of just how important, you know, Deandra. So it's a commonungai out of this, but just Ben Johnson's, you know, just how much importance he puts on the run game and that no bigger statement was made before the game even was played. And that was last week when they signed Deandra Swift to a contract extension. And last week, if you were to did here to see HBO Bears after dark,

10:41you might have heard a certain somebody days before that contract extension, you know, get signed on the dotted line. Somebody at, uh, CCO Bears after dark and the tape never lies network had a suggestion for Chicago Bears. To me, Deandra Swift is an easy guy that you throw some new paper at and extend him. I think it sends an awesome message to the team. But no, it's he's a huge, huge part to what Ben Johnson wants to do. I think fans and analysts fallen to a trap that think the bend just wants to throw throw throw throw all the time. And that's it couldn't be farther from the truth. I mean, we weren't too far off from having two 1000 yard rushers last year. And one of them was a seventh round rookie. So yeah, Ben is all about the running game. And it's going to be a huge part of this run to the Super Bowl. This starts this weekend. And there it is. Yeah. So there's rushing touchdowns later. Yeah. The smartest man, Monica was earned calm. I mean, I didn't give that to myself, buddy.

11:45Well, I gave him cram. I gave him cram. And he's earned that cram here at the last few years. But a great call out by you. I know some may have suggested such a thing here this summer. But I think you stamped it pretty hard there last Monday in the bears. I think we're on the same page with you. So Shane, I, you know, I just thought I'd give you the floor. Thanks. You know, I, you talked a lot about, you know, I know Phil had a lot to say about Swift and everything. But you certainly nailed it. That's when, when we talk and we have these conversations on a daily basis, those are things like for those of you behind the curtains, like when I have conversations with these guys, Shane does that every day on a phone call. He just doesn't do it on shows all the time. So that was a moment there of what shade every single day. Shane is inside the mind of what's going on at House Hall. That's like literally how it's fine operates. And it's a lot of fun to have conversations with you because you're always having, you're always a few steps ahead in that way. And I don't really look at the team roster building as much as you focus on that.

12:46Yeah, I think that that's why the relationship with Phil and I, especially works for as long as it has because Phil's 24 7365 looking at the coaching angle. And I'm not so much focused on that. I'm more of the run office focus. And when I say that, I'm not talking about the finances and the menu and all of that stuff. I'm talking about, you know, player acquisition and and scouting college players and stuff like that. And I think that, you know, Ying and Yang works perfectly because like, you know, Phil and I have choked around. He's like, you know, pounding the table for, you know, the cap doesn't exist. And I'm there to, you know, kind of real my guy back in sometimes. And I just think that it works. But it's listen, you have to look ahead. And I think the momentum, the momentum is building for something else that I've been saying. It just makes too much sense for the bears not to be involved in making a big trade. You know, on the defense and Phil and I have talked about this too is listen, the second area is banged up.

14:01Am I giving up premium assets for a corner? I'm not. Would I be shocked if Ryan polls doesn't check in on Joey Porter, Jr. No, I wouldn't be. As you start talking because I know we're going to get into the secondary down the line. But that's what that's what it is. You know, is Jeffrey Simmons available is Max Crosby going to become available. You have to be involved in every single one of those. Why? Because of what we saw yesterday. That's great point. And you look at Ryan polls in the preseason, poking around at Vita Vaya, right. And and so, you know, he's not afraid to pull the trigger. I think we've all seen that. But I think Ben Johnson has given him the ability to show some patience because in Ben Johnson, in Ben Johnson, we trust. And we know he's going to find a way certainly to to kind of crack the code here when that being said before we, you know, get to our first time on. These shows aren't going to be an hour tight unless these two got a jet always be respectful of these two guys schedule and the time they put in here on these late Monday nights. They're on the East Coast. But that being said, there's a few different things I want to unpack.

15:13And one of those is from Ben Johnson, you know, the headline of the show, at least the thumbnail was good, better, Ben. And, you know, you know, a conversation that, you know, was had, you know, was had a lot here in the off season was what would they bring back good better best. And, you know, I was not a big proponent of clubbed up coming back. I think everybody had a little bit of hesitancy at first. I think everything, I think everyone wanted the 2018 season to carry over to 2019 in the reality is they just didn't have the talent at quarterback or the correct head coach, which Phil was trying to tell everybody at the time nobody would listen. And then the debacle on that week one game against the Packers couldn't have been a more different game yesterday, right. And so club dumb, they bring it back and become something that just goes out of the window, not good. They're doing club dumb after a four game losing streak. It's just the culture didn't feel right. Whereas Ben Johnson, good, better best.

16:13That culture felt real good last year, right. So would he bring it back. Well, they showed in the locker room. We can't show it here. Obviously it's not our footage, but he dialed it up. He gave out his game balls. And he kind of let the players decide, I'm a, you know, you guys want me to bring back the players called for it. And then they did the chance to edit it. It was pretty powerful moment for what the culture is. I set that up. So you can hear from Ben Johnson himself on why he felt to bring back good better best. So here's Ben Johnson talking about that today to the Bears media. Ben, was there ever any question in your mind that you would bring back good better best for this season? It seemed like in the video you showed that you were, that you at last at least left a dramatic pause. One of the players were waiting for it. I mean, it was kind of the vision when I took it over a year and a half ago, I kind of had that in mind that that being kind of our thing. And so, no, nothing really discouraged me away from doing that. I think it's great message. I think it's a good rallying cry for us. And I think the guys enjoy it.

17:15I feel so full when you talk about culture and you talk about that a lot, right? A lot of it's from a schematic standpoint, but there's also a heartbeat of culture. And Ben has certainly found a way to tap into that. So I just thought I'd dial you up on your thoughts on just what this is and how it's carried over from last year here in the week one. Yeah, I didn't think it should ever have left. I didn't know that it was something because that's who he is. Just like myself, I have a standard of what we say and how we carry ourselves and we have these conversations as a head coach. The team is a reflection of me. So what you do at school, where you go, how you handle yourself or how we play and what we put on tape is what our culture is and what we're teaching. And then when you celebrate, we have our own battle cry, respect all and every kid says fear none.

18:16And we have built that through my experience in the game and that's my thing. And I love that I saw that video today, thankfully, where the players were almost begging him, come on, you got to do it. You got to do it coach. You got it. And I didn't know that there was hesitancy. No, not from not from the players. This was a conversation. I mean, fans had I. I wasn't sure. But that's just who you are. And after a victory, like my father as a head coach, he would do a victory dance and all the they would love that. And his dance was like house of pain, jump around. Nothing big, but he did it as the head coach, old man and everyone would get fired up. You have these cultural things when you've reached the pinnacle of what you've done. I mean, think about opening day eight touchdowns on the road.

19:16This isn't some schleppy team. This is a playoff team. Sure. You know that you don't know how you're going to play. I was there. The his first year with you, Greg, when they faced off against the Vikings and had that disappointing loss in his first game. It is a it's so hard to win in the NFL and win period and football. So when you have those moments, I just embrace that the coach is as maniacal is a secure in his body and understands the temperature of his football team goes through him. I love that. And I think feel like you did the right thing. I think your last comment there says it all Phil and I think like you can speak to this about, you know, with you being a head coach and I think the separator when you're looking at 2018 versus this 2025, 2026 Ben Johnson bears.

20:16Ben started this Ben is the one in the locker room leading the charge. It's him. This isn't turning the, you know, the music over to. Whoever to to recon and and and stuff like that. This is a rallying cry for the guy in the center of the room, the guy that you paid 13.5 million dollars to come here and to change the culture. Everybody, Jody Walker's like, I need it. I need it. That is that Ben is the center. Be listen. Caleb is a leader. Johtunia is a leader. The first time that I've seen a leader on this team right now is Ben Johnson. He's in the center of this entire locker room after each and every loss each and every win. Every all eyes around him. So that the good better best it makes way more sense moving forward just because of that. It's Ben's rallying cry. He's the leader of this entire organization. It's something that he came up with. He's the guy at the, you know, at the head of the boat leading the charge to the Super Bowl.

21:23What Ben wants Ben's going to get and everybody else is going to follow behind him because that's the culture that he built. And we'll see if it's it, you know, how good it gets moving forward. I just think the separators. This isn't a player thing that the players want. Right. This is your head coach. And that's how it should be 100% and that's why I didn't know that you could have picked up the phone and asked me this Greg because I. He better do that conversation and definitely curious. I thought the smart one was starved bears are bears fans are for a real coach. And that's what we do. That's right. And we never let it rest. It's all the good bits gets better and the better gets best. And you know, who look pretty damn good yesterday. That would be Caleb Williams. We're going to talk about him coming up next. Got to give a shout out to our good friends over at shady raise. I love shady raise. They have been with CHEO sports since the very beginning. And here we are in year five.

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25:40Here in the middle of the show and we always get to it at some point I can promise you that we got a jam packed show with a lot of different topics here coming up but not more important right now I've been dialing you guys up I held you back. Is there's a lot of victory laps to be had today on victory Monday. But what a victory lap for the Caleb Williams crowd there's been it's growing every day and and now he's I think second MVP odds and you know everyone's singing his praises and tapes looking real good guys over there at the tape never lies that work and everything else is looking real good with Caleb William so start with you shade. What a performance from Caleb Williams just goes out there and dissect a Carolina Panthers defense that was in the playoffs last year you know are they the 85 bears defense know but are they a pushover not by any stretch of the imagination and Caleb Williams did a lot of things yesterday.

26:42That we know he can do a lot of things that we've seen massive improvement on just in one week from last year. Yeah I think we just need to make a checklist of all the negative things that were said about Caleb all the things that you know people there was a point in time where people said this kid could not play under center because it didn't happen at USC which it did and we showed you a TT now that it did. We took our patrons behind the curtain showed them that he can play under center did he play under center a lot no but listen this kid is that special I would I ever go up to Caleb Williams and say oh he can't do this no because. He would feed off of that everything that this kid. Is being told from the outside media like the Dan or Lavskies or Peter Bukowski's and all of these people that just want to. He's a great this kid he's one out he's kept his mouth shut and he's done nothing but improve in 2024 and 2025 and 2020 if you can listen he can't come into the league you can't survive off hero ball and then it's like oh you know he needs to throw interceptions he needs to throw more interceptions in games which is one of the dumbest football things that I think any.

28:09Anybody could ever say no he's taking care of the football people wanted to think that that was a bad thing it's not and he's ascended through the chaos that was 2024 he got his guy in 2025 and he had a fantastic season was it up the season that we all wanted no but no now he's got to be able to hit the check downs and and not always be looking for the play and what did we say what we drew brief said this kid is impressing me in in the game. He's impressing me in impressing me he's going through the reads and he's getting the ball out have fun defense have fun trying to get after if he's going to get the ball out that quick and that decisively have fun because when it does break down like it ultimately does there's not a better player in the game getting out of chaos and making plays and when we were breaking this down and when we said the hall we got the hall we got the quarterback we got the best quarterback in the 2024 draft class by far by far I wouldn't take Drake May in a first round pick for Caleb Williams we told you who Jaden Daniels was bonix first past tonight was picked is he a good player yes we got the best the Chicago Bears

29:36got the best quarterback and he's nowhere near of where he's going that's the best part while he's on mute three shows in a row. J. MacArthur well I mean that's the the Larry the Larry mute Larry make sure that I'm muted in B block this is your 12 minutes then rank it's 12 minutes coming up next. I also I think that's well said in what I was going to say to you named all those quarterbacks also J. J. MacArthur who I know was a surprise draft pick but by the Vikings not somebody that was initially projected to be a top 10 pick but he couldn't even come in as the backup to the Vikings when Kyle Murray came out so when you talk about that draft class and there were people saying take J. J. MacArthur over I wasn't many but there's a group of people that were suggesting that J. J. MacArthur could be better. Even that worse than McCarthy was keep Justin Fields over I the epic failure that is for all I could you imagine if they had draft the J. J. MacArthur and Justin Fields of J. J. were competing for that job that would be exactly what the Vikings are dealing with this year.

30:50All I could say is there wasn't and I there's not a lot of people in this world let alone out in the universe of social media that put their name on the line and I will myself whatever here Shane and myself by saying and fighting a diligent long fight putting my reputation as who I am on the line telling everybody this is the best college quarterback I've ever scouted and Andrew Luck was before him and I stood by that I stay by that I watch him and his growth in the NFL and all of these pieces falling together for the Chicago Bears the most important being Ben Johnson to unite with him but you saw what he's able to do even in other chaos with coaches being fired and Shane Waldron as his offensive coordinator you saw an infinite amount of ability

32:04taking over games in those situations let alone with the competent coach where the limit would go that's why laugh at all the skis that Shane brought up or Lopsky whatever this packer clown boy is Bukowski every ski seems to have a problem with him Mark Mark Karmannski Yeah, I watch Taylor play this game there is a level of escape ability an intuitive graceful showcase of ability that you can manipulate a pocket to find yourself another platform to make throws on a level with which his arm talent is elite level where he's competing with Josh Allen for the strongest arm in the NFL like it's apparent under center with his back turned he's going through the routes as he's going through his mesh fake understanding where his comfort level yesterday was at an all time high for me watching him like he's just dealing that's why the weird throw to love and stands out for me you got to hold him accountable but

33:26they're all going to make bad throws and the amount of scrutiny that comes his way whether it be his personality his fingernails his friends his mom his emotion his goals his desire his strengths his everything is nitpicked like no other athlete I've ever witnessed and I'm like in like sheer utter disbelief that this guy is in your city doing something so unremarkable like you just it's unbelievable each and every Sunday on a football field he is the Michael Jordan of quarterbacks doing things that you can't teach you can't coach there is no limit to it and if you're so afraid to throw flowers a certain way when someone's deserving of it you're the problem you're the problem you're waiting for failure I don't I look at it this is where I saw this guy going he is an outstanding quarterback that is just in the infancy of where he's going imagine what he is like when you when Shula had Dan Marino he was just like blown up

34:54just like blown away with this guy's talent and he was in the infancy and who go into the Super Bowl and never got back there but the growth that he had wasn't surrounded on the defense and the run game they didn't build it the right way that's the one fear you have in this ultimate team sport as we get further in this conversation he's so good the offense is scoring eight touchdowns like this is really happening in our lifetime we are seeing this and yet he's taking stray bullets from Dan Orlovsky a guy who's a backup terrible quarterback ESPN seems to hire every backup quarterback to be an analyst it's hilarious to me and you're not appreciating the Justin builds does have a future ahead. You're just not appreciating the ability to grow in a system with which you started in a neglectful parented household of Shane Waldron and Matt Evers loose and then you got Ben Johnson and then all of a sudden he's supposed to just magically be 70% completion percentage and this down hello did you listen to how weight this is.

36:17Like seven of the most epic comebacks let alone throws in NFL history in one season and really a lazy low for out away from going to the NFC championship I did I know it wasn't Caleb's fault I just look at this picture differently as he grows and yesterday you're at the cherry on top. I mean just taking off escaping you know and running for how far out was he on that run what was it 40 Greg you're muted 40 and then Ben said even today that that's where Caleb Williams comes up with the answers to the test that at times Ben fails when he draws up a play that gets locked up by the defense now you have a quarter everybody's talking about how Colston Loveland is going to be this gravitation. He's going to be able to use his dynamics to create openings for everybody else and that was on full display yesterday but Caleb Williams and and how you have to account for him and how you have to keep contained.

37:25You know and Ben Johnson talked about it he's going to be able to do things that Ben didn't have the access to in Detroit where he led the Detroit Lions to an office that scored 70 touchdowns in one season and any team that hits 70 touchdowns is in a elite elite category there's only been a small handful of teams that have scored 70 or more touchdowns the most I think is 75 by the 2013 Denver Broncos and that's the team that Ben Johnson and Caleb Williams are gunning for so when you're talking about greatness you brought up Michael Jordan earlier there was a color to 67 score early today saying this is Michael Jordan at the 90s bulls I think people are on the same page as you guys and talking about the greatness and while maybe some took longer than others to come around to what we're seeing there's no denying on what's going on and that also was on full display with the commentary from Drew breeze during the game yesterday and a very notable thing came from this afternoon's press conference with Ben Johnson and he talked about the pre show meaning that television stations will have with you know the players and the quarterbacks and the head coach going into a game so they're ready for the broadcast so Drew breeze Ben Johnson Caleb Williams they all had a conversation about check downs and and process and it was a really interesting

38:52comment here from Ben Johnson about that conversation so here it is. Hey Ben first one for you there was a check down to Kyle right before Cole's touchdown went for 19 yards I'm just curious to kind of use an that place example what you thought overall of your production both from Caleb and your backs from receivers on those check down plays. Yeah I mean it's it goes back Caleb and I were talking about it the night before the game just his conversation with Drew breeze who ended up calling our game just the difference between 60% and 70% and you said the difference is three completions of game and you turn on our tape and it's kind of like that that might have stuck with our guy a little bit which was which was cool to see couple check downs to the backs were good place for us there's a couple of times where the primary is not there and you can see him reset to the middle of the field where number two was and he ended up gotten that for five yard gains a couple times I thought he had some really nice throwaways when the plays weren't there was smart with a

39:55football and then I think we would also showed up was just on the scramble the scramble in general we had a lot more production than maybe we would have had in the past and so that that was encouraging to see as well. The master of the check down don't call him captain check down but the master of the check down Caleb Williams perfecting a craft that Ben Johnson has really been dialing into him over the summer and Ben giving the credit to Drew breeze there and that pre show me I thought that was really interesting where he said looks like it might have got through to our guy. Those three extra completion every 30 completions is what Drew breeze told him and hey low and behold I know you guys much to the chagrin of the 70% completion percentage conversation but wouldn't you have it Caleb Williams finishes with over a 70% completion percentage in game one not that we're going to watch that throughout the season. Jordan loved it not and neither Jordan Daniels you know what I mean that's the that's the thing and now all of a sudden in the Packers world EPA isn't a thing that matters and he Jordan love played good I don't really care about EPA where last year it was all about EPA because that's Caleb didn't have the EPA numbers that all these nerds loved so it's moving the goal.

41:18Yes we'll take the W's you guys take your review taking the W's but man let's talk about this a little more here with Caleb and we got a few more minutes and then we're going to move to Adam rakes going to you know his weekly segment here that we recorded here earlier this afternoon going to drop some truth on some bears fans. I know you guys are going to like his similar message that Shane had earlier. In this program and he's got some messages for Packers fans as well so make sure you tune in for that but want to stay here in this Caleb Caleb realm here because. Yeah as I keep saying like I didn't wait my whole life for a quarterback like this I didn't wait my whole life for a head coach like this I didn't wait my whole life for an offense like this to then immediately move to. You know what's wrong with Jalen Johnson which we're certainly going to get to I want to talk about this with Caleb Williams and how much he has matured and I thought both of you spoke eloquently about the journey here over the last three years and the doubters and everything but just from a film standpoint and X is an old standpoint and execution standpoint.

42:22From Caleb Williams we can talk about those downfield throws and that magnificent arm talent but it does appear that these little plays that the quick throw to co-commit because close to the level and clears out that quick little you know turn around hitch and go with Luther Burton feels wide open at all times and so I just wonder. Like it's just how do you stop this if Caleb Williams is going to play that discipline because Phil I think yesterday he really just put on full display from the home runs to the legs running to the small ball and the patients I think Caleb Williams just crossed every I died at every T. Yeah when you have the ability to. Translate and absorb the playbook and understand everybody's part and what it is they're trying to do then you become even more comfortable in the offense when you have the skill level in the skill set that somebody like he has with his arm talent so listen I have lived watching the Packers have an Aaron Rogers right so we could be honest.

43:38And look at Aaron whether you like them or not the level of talent that he had with his feet and his arm and what he was able to do was was growing obviously sat a long time behind a Hall of Famer and Brett Farve and then he got a shot and then you saw as he grew comfortable he became so dangerous because he became the point guard as well as the shooting guard as well as the small fort he could do all these different things. For them and cover a lot of warts and take a guy that was a sixth round receiver and make them an all pro because of his ability now I get to this guy and this the floor for Caleb versus Aaron Caleb's a better athlete Caleb stronger Caleb is in the infancy he started way sooner than Aaron did so his ability to get to where Aaron got to is whether you want to go.

44:38I believe sitting behind someone or playing is is better is up to you for me I believe playing is better you get the reps you get the understanding I get say all that to give you a little bit of a comparison I know that's his idle growing up or watching his ability so to see him in this comfort level is going to threaten every inch of every grass. I can't really feel the need for a field or turf that you play on because he's so dynamic and what he does and how he's able to process the information so freaking well it's not even close right now you could see the comfort. You're muted again on a level yeah I got a cold so I've been coughing and sniffling when we come back we got more to get to here with Adam right we're going to talk about Jalen Johnson but you're a hundred percent right and Ben John.

45:38And has certainly been hammering this home how much Caleb Williams is not just. Reacting but he understands what's happening before it happens and that's about anticipation so when we come back we're going to hear from Adam rank who I anticipate is going to have some strong words for green made packer fans. Want to give everybody a quick reminder that now is as good a time as ever to become a die hard here at CHO Sports and with our team over at CHO Bears we've got a huge roster here on our team we got shows all week long but we've got exclusive written content that goes on daily from Adam Johnson Adam home Mark Carmen Patrick Norton on the Bears beat at House Hall the eyes and ears getting the inside look you're going to get that inside. And look in that exclusive written content the only way to gain access to that is to become a die hard all CHO dot com slash die hard when you sign up you get a free shirt as soon as you sign up you get the good better best if you want you can get some of these awesome new designs first time out the gate you get a free shirt that's how we do it for all our die hard that's sign up we got some different tears for you to choose from we've leveled up the fandom here in Chicago and you can get it for a

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49:19We're excited to talk some bears football after a blowout win Adam rake what do we do with our hands I don't know what to do with our hands this is the greatest moment of my entire life. It might be pretty close to a Greg I am so happy to be here to be able to talk to the fans but I've got a truth bomb that I got to lay out on the people right now and the truth is so many of you do not know how to handle winning and it's evident and it shocks me listen I understand the Chicago Bears have not had a lot of winning success over the last I don't know 100 years it feels like but at the same time Chicago has experienced success with Jordan with the black Hawks even the baseball teams have done well why are you so reticent to enjoy the victories that happen the bears had one of the most dominant offensive performances that we have seen in quite some time it is shocking how well they move the ball up and down the field and yet what do people want to talk about who are cool and lovely didn't give me enough fantasy points is Jalen Johnson what who cares listen take one second one moment of your life and experience the joy of watching a bears football team do exactly what we know they're actually capable of you

50:35know how many week one openers we have sat through over the last 20 years we're like God I hope we're good this year and we got cut we should be good are we good I don't know for good I don't know if we're going to be good offensively remember that that that game in the 100 anniversary season 2019 coming off a playoff appearance we're like we should be good right we weren't but now Ben Johnson gave you all the evidence that this team is good and I know there's going to be a lot of people out there like call me up would you do it against a defense it's not the Panthers we did this last year to the Packers we did this last year to the 49ers in prime time I understand that there are some some needs to fill some holes that need to be taken care of however that does not preclude you from the fact that you can go out and enjoy this victory yes we can do better on the past rush we can do better in a lot of ways here's the thing it's only week one so all the Packer fans and all these other fans cowboy fans charger fans who are truly week one don't panic so let's apply the same statistic here it's only week one for the defense give

51:45them an opportunity to get better but we know that this offense is legit and that Greg is the absolute truth that absolutely is the truth and it's the truth that we're all going to have to come to grips with and I think bears fans are going to find their way to it it's exciting but you brought up the Packers and I think some truth some truth sitting them pretty hard in the face today too so bad like when you look at this and you look at the mouth down that they had against the bears last season and it wasn't even the bears they had some other games I think they lost to the browns and pretty horrific fashion and it's kind of a matla floor thing where his team just always seem disjointed you know I was talking to one of the guys here roaming the halls earlier today we were talking about the Packers like they never they never seem to capitalize on anything they'll have an explosive play and then like so what like there's not there's no it doesn't matter it's just like an explain explain fine like you gain 40 yards and then you're settling for a field goal or doing whatever I will tell you this and this is this is a great

52:49delight I will pull back the curtain a little bit so I watched watch the bears game was watching the I implore people don't watch reds it don't spend the money for red zone if you're contemplating buying red zone don't watch the NFL network Steve Smith and Patrick Claibon two of my buddies are out there doing the thing but here is the thing so I got all this I'm doing work for ESPN yesterday in the one o'clock win a no wait four o'clock eastern window I do I'm I'm having I'm having trouble uploading videos I'm doing this stuff I looked down at my phone right when the the Cowboys game was about to start and I'm like oh my god the Packers lost I'm shocked because I'm getting fantasy updates on my phone because I have Matthew golden on a on a team and I think I have Jordan love on one too so I'm getting these updates and I'm like he threw for 387 yards I'm like oh they must have destroyed the Vikings I literally did not know until five o'clock Pacific that the Vikings had beaten the pen what a great what a great all around day

53:51yeah it's a it's a great day today's a great victory Monday and and yeah the Packers I mean we are teetering on the chance that that dagger thrown by Caleb Williams the DJ more yeah put the dagger no pun intended to the great Wayne Larrivy the voice of the Packers might have put a dagger in this iteration of the Green Bay Packers they sense the last time the Packers won a game was when they beat the Bears in the last second at Lambo Field they were nine three and one and since then Adam they have lost six straight games they have not won a game since they last beat the Bears and that feels like a lifetime ago it really does feel like their their teeter on the edge here it's it's early it's week one weird things happen but this offseason just did not feel right for Green Bay and this start was everything opposite of everything they said they were

54:55six off the five game losing streak they had to end last season you know it's funny too is when you look around the league and when people are talking about the success of Caleb Williams and I've seen this from other fan bases especially ones that have young quarterbacks they're like yeah but the Bears have set their team up for success they've set Caleb up for success I'm like yeah it's the first time ever but this we've at yes I'm sorry we've actually caught we've actually tried to put our quarterback in a position to win I know that people still believe that we need to go out there and make a move for Max Crosby or whatever it is but they really took care of the offense it goes back again to the conversations that we are having around draft time and going on with Phil and Shane and I know they're sitting there biting nails right now because I'm throwing them under the bus but I draft night I told them right after we took Dylan in the scene of him who buy the way how great is Dylan the in the like all this is this is another thing too so Carolina could have had Colston Loveland they passed on him could have had Caleb obviously for the things that

55:56worked out not that Bryce young was bad they also they probably should have taken them into I don't know how they're rookie did I didn't I wasn't paying that close attention to them but at the same time like they built this offense to make sure that this was sustainable to be able to go out there and perform the way that they did perform the way they they they did without Colston Loveland doing anything statistically without a lot of like Khalif Raymond was the guy who led the team in targets just like they drew it up this is going to be a problem for a lot of people you're not going to know what to do and one of the things I absolutely love now I'm trying to remember I'm sure somebody has this statistic and I should have looked it up but like watching Kyle and unguy break away number what it's great to see I love I miss I miss break away touchdowns there's so much fun such a great it's such a great feeling like a 60 60 plus yard touchdown rounds are so amazing I believe it was a walker who had the he had the excuse me block of like I'm just running in your lane which is such a I try to teach my soccer kids how to get into people's lanes

57:01actually one of my girls on Saturday did that got into girl got a two handed shove in the back for trouble no cards no nothing but sometimes I don't want to I don't want it was you know it was reminiscing what it wanted reminded me of with Jada doing that to help out the guys and I'm going to get those last few yards get in the end so reminded me of Brendan I am Badejo on the return for Devon Hester in the Monday night miracle against the Cardinals as he's breaking free Mike Toreco on the call and Brent he's got a he's got a putter of meat he's got one man to miss and and Brendan I am Badejo finishing if you watch that play he actually has an amazing block of the being and then at the end he does exactly what Jada did and that's just get everyone's way so Devon can run the rest and take it to the house and Jada did the same there yeah it was incredible too and it reminded me of Gabrielle Martin L. E. shielding for Max Dauman last year but I guess not everybody watches Premier League football I I love that and I I do believe you know

58:05when we talk about no block no rock I feel I don't think that they were purposely drawing it up for him because I'm locked by 100% I 100% believe that I really do believe that we that's exactly what they were trying to do is set him up for that and so anybody and again you can stop texting me about your fantasy team because number one I don't care number two if you don't think that Colson loved ones going to end up with like 90 targets in the next three weeks I don't know what to tell you he is going to be rewarded Luther burdened third kind of loss a little bit of the mojo because he lost the fumble but yeah this team is just going to find different ways to beat you and it's exciting to see in my guy the Andre Swift also was doing well and I got to say this too is depending on how you feel about these players now come back Greg I don't this is a monologue I thought he had something profound I was ready to sit back with my my pipe and I was just going to say what else was

59:08really cool this week so obviously deandre did what he did and all of us all the scoring that was going on is that DJ Moore and David Montgomery both had monster games themselves I'm like it it's just like the bears like a friend of mine was like the bears scored again I'm like well they sort of did David Montgomery just scored a touchdown like it was awesome watching all of this I might stop watching football now and jacquon brisker had an interception deckland doils ravens put up 41 points they were under center quite a bit with Lamar Jackson something that he's not used to over there as much but deckland bringing the Ben Johnson offense to Baltimore so I heard Adam Hogue even suggesting that maybe we need to hide the idea of deckland to a team up north that might be looking for a head coach here next off season but that's that's a conversation for another day Adam you might have to do some work behind the scenes you know you've got all the different ways and that's where we're going to have to implement you know your services and I might I might have to bury him yeah I tried it you

1:00:14know what I was I was calling Cal State Bulletin women's basketball and I I jumped with the two coaches they were in their first season last year and I said hey if I ever get way to you guys looking at other jobs I'm going to I'm going to start saying terrible things about you on the air and little did I know they were actually jumping they jumped to Seattle after one season like had I known I would have put a stop to that immediately but like bad guys bad culture no they're they're awesome but like similarly with deck deckland oil like that that seems like the ultimate bleep you and you know what though I can't be mad at it because we dig it Ben Johnson out of Detroit so it would be apropos if Green Bay ended up hiring deckland oil to be their next head coach. Yeah I was first sure he put that in the atmosphere but we always got to be ready you know no blind sides we always got to be looking around the corner here and if that's where our problems are like think about like we're very spoiled if that's going to be the if that's going to be the the the thing if that's if that's where our life is at that

1:01:19we're worried about our former coordinators going to be the head coach in Green Bay we're living a pretty good life and that is the truth no pun intended here on another addition of you can't handle the truth and we're going to have a lot of fun with this there's going to be a lot of truth that people are going to have to grow to accept whether it's bears fans about a reality that we are not really used to or arrival fans living in a reality that they don't want to it seems like this will be a fun year to be dropping the truth on people that that want to run from it and I know our guys are going to be on the same day will always promote the truth and advocate for that we know that so uh Adam appreciate it's going to be a fun year and we're going to continue to roll things along here on C H O bears after dark I'll see you on Wednesday on the sick podcast talking more bears football find out what the bears are going to be doing game planted against the Minnesota Vikings

1:02:22All right, we're back here on CHO Bears after dark hit that like button, subscribe to the channel as we've officially reached over time. Here on CHO Bears after dark, appreciate you guys here hanging out, trying to get through the little rank segment. Shout out to Adam rank for joining us here and giving a piece of this time. I know he's working hard over there at ESPN and NFL Network. So yeah, guys, it's all sunshine and roses for for great. He was, he was right on draft night. I actually forgot about the, the Sith Lord, you know, putting his wisdom upon us. But yeah, he was, he was all in in true rank style, you know what I mean? I don't think he's, they probably could have drafted the Stelgetti that night. And I think rank probably would have thought that was the right pick. But no, he was, he was 100% right. He was all in on it. And it's certainly looking like the right choice after week one. But there's, as we all know, there's a long way to go.

1:03:27Long way to go. And a lot of things that the Bears need to clean up. And an hour of throwing roses at the Bears feet after a 60 point burger, essentially on the road against the playoff team, I think was appropriate here on a victory Monday here on CHO Bears after dark. But I don't think we'd be doing our job or I don't think I'd be doing my job if I didn't dial you guys up into some level of criticism and critical analysis and critical thinking of how this Bears team can improve because you know, that's where Ben Johnson's mind is already at looking at the Minnesota Vikings who put up 39 points of their own against the Green Man Packers and a win against the Green Man Packers and a win there in Minnesota. So with that being said, me and Phil were on the phone earlier today. And a conversation that we've had more than a few times here on CHO Bears after dark is about Jalen Johnson in particular. And we can have a bigger discussion about the whole secondary room because there were some bright spots from that secondary yesterday. But you know, Jalen Johnson guys, there's been

1:04:32a lot of conversation you two have put the red flags up for a couple of years now of, hey, maybe we should consider trading Jalen, you know, while his value is high, maybe we should not. That's over. Yeah, there's so many different avenues. I think you guys have kind of broached it in the last year with the injury and just kind of the transition of the Ben Johnson era. I don't just try to break it down for people that haven't followed along with everything we've discussed, but I think you guys have kind of reached your ending point with Jalen Johnson. Well, clearly the organization didn't maybe from a contract contract standpoint. But now here we are at trading camp fast forward. And for me personally, from what I've seen at trading camp, based off all the conversations we've had, I certainly had a keen eye on, you know, a very important, you know, spot there, your quarterback one, your veteran in that room, Kobe Bryant goes down, what's Jalen Johnson doing to be the leader of that room? You know, if you put the leadership

1:05:33aside, everything that I've seen at trading camp in the limited practices, not like I'm privy to every practice, but just giving you guys my two cents of what I saw at practice of the eight or nine open practices. I saw that was Jalen Johnson getting beat pretty regularly. And so Ben Johnson that advocates and says how impressed he's been by Jalen Johnson halfway through trading camp that the light came on and a fire lit under him. And he seemed to play pretty well against the bangles and a joint practice in Jamar Chase and felt like things were trending in the right direction. Now we get to week one and he gets beat up pretty bad against the Carolina Panthers Steven Bryce Young. So Phil, I'll start with you because I think we kind of holstered this debate for tonight, but everything that you've kind of been warning us about Jalen Johnson, it kind of came to fruition here in week one. We're hoping for a bounce back in a turnaround, but not great here

1:06:34to start the season for somebody that you need to have a big year from. Yeah, I mean, I always look at how a person handles themselves, especially at this level corner back in the NFL, you got to be a tremendous athlete and you always have to be in tip top shape. I have always questioned Jalen Johnson's leadership, his maturity, and his real love for the game of football on tape. How do you do that? Well, I see effort in the alley when a run play comes your way and you have an opportunity to make a tackle and you decide to Olay or let somebody else do it. That's not the elite level corner play. It's a trap. You get a good play in coverage, but you don't get a fill and finish tackle. I look back on the bears and I look at Denelle Wolfer and I remember just how that was an elite level corner and how he played. Same with Charles Tillman,

1:07:37what are those two guys having common? They were able to play the football in the air, they were the man up, but they also were willing and wanting tacklers. Peanut is what he is and everybody knows him and not a lot of people forget Denelle Wolferd for what he was, but I'd never do because the guy gave amazing effort all the time and it popped right out whether it be on the television or on tape. And Jalen has always showed a selfishness at the corner position that he'll make a play on the ball but not an tackle. And then it became very evident that he was losing his twitchiness and was he buying really into the Ben Johnson stuff? He was staying away. It's similar to what you're seeing with Kyler Gordon. I think they both see the same doctor and it's just a level of buy-in that you keep away from and I know fans get so caught up and I'm sure they'll be comments here.

1:08:41I just, there's no gray for me. It's just straight truth. I want to love these players always, but the tape tells me, I mean, I can draw up at least 50 plays over the last three seasons where Jalen Johnson has decided to O'lay or put an arm out or not even give an effort. And for me, quite frankly, you don't put those guys in an elite level category or talk about them and give them new money. Those guys are coach killers. Those are the guys that are always about themselves. And that's always what I've seen in Jalen. He has an opportunity right now to rehab, come back strong, be amazing in practice and then Greg's reporting. He's getting beat left and right. What I saw on the football field this Sunday is slow, completely odd gate. He looked like, I don't remember if it was cars or shain that used Marty Carter, former safety that we signed from the bucket hairs, but

1:09:48it was a good, remember, a memory for me of Marty was not the fastest guy. He was always chasing him. He could tackle, but he was not going to cover people man to man and you're asking him to play a lot of man and you have a very limited pass rush. You're asking for trouble because the more time you have and you have that, he looked like it was running in quicksand and he's getting dusted, left and right all over the field, shallow crosses, slants. He's just running from behind and quite honestly the gate with which he runs with is different than it used to be as well. So it's it's almost like is he playing on a different level where his injury is still occurring or he's trying to compensate for it, but it's just odd to me, even the way he sprints. He's always playing

1:10:50catch up and I know in Chicago, you don't like catch up on hot dogs. Well, you don't like catch up when you're playing cornerback for the Bears as well because he's just not getting there Greg. He's slow and he's not a willing tackle or those two mix not good. So I didn't give the the the timer for that because I wanted you to have the full floor to present your argument on the full totality of where you've been from Jalen last few years to where we are today. So no, no Larry, no Larry clock for that. And I think all that was well presented and based on not just emotion or or hot takes, but you know has intertwined with things that you've done your homework on. And so my only things I can go off of as somebody that doesn't break down the tape with expertise is

1:11:52going off of the head coach, going off of what the coaches are doing or saying, you know, actions speak louder than words at times, but the words also tend to hold pretty firm with Ben Johnson. And so this is where I'm a little thrown off the sense because I'm with you. If we're going to have an honest conversation about Jalen Johnson and you say a pretty pretty strong word and selfishness that like I know you're talking about play selfishness, which is different than personal character selfishness. But I will personally point to a moment that I grew very frustrated with Jalen Johnson. And that was at the end of the Maddieber Fluss era and everybody was very frustrated. We were all having meltdowns of our own in certain capacities. And I'm sure the players were wearing that stress more than anyone. But at that time Jalen was doing a lot of weekly hits on 670 the score as Cole was doing weekly hits on CHO Sports. So not going to act like we're not

1:12:53doing the same kind of transactions. We certainly are. But you know, Jalen would reveal things that were said or you know, even at the time Kevin Byard, a few other guys were all revealing private conversations that were being being had in leadership meetings with the head coach at the time. Okay, head coach, they didn't respect in Maddieber Fluss. I completely understand where the separation happened. But never liked that it at times certain things were being shared with the media that I didn't think should be shared. And he was certainly a part of that. But then where it really crossed the line for me was when Thomas Brown then took over as the interim head coach. And he says to the locker room, what's in house stays in house because at that time it was becoming a very big problem for a lot of the players in the locker room with their their frustrations with the coaching staff. Well, a few hours later, Jalen went on 670 score and revealed what that's the reason I know what was said in the locker room from Thomas Brown addressing the team for the

1:13:57first time is because it was revealed on an interview. But so it liked to me like those were my first red flags, right? We talked about red flags with Matt nagging or anybody else. But from a you talk about how hard he works and how much he loves the game or things of that nature. All I've ever seen from Jalen Johnson from day one, seven years ago when him and Colcometh showed up to this team as a guy that busses ass a guy that trains relentlessly a guy that is an attention to detail, a technician out there. It is craft of his footwork and his hand placement and his ability to compete. And I've always advocated for Jalen Johnson's ability. Is he the top elite corner in the league? Maybe, maybe not, but I've always advocated for Jalen Johnson's talents and ability. Can he be a man corner versus his own corner? I think that's for you guys to tell me versus me to tell you. But I know how hard he works and I know last year was a tough year for him because all these years are contract

1:15:02years, whether he's gotten paid or not and gets injured. And after seven years of struggling with crap coaches and crap rosters, they finally have a good team and he gets hurt. And that's got to be so frustrating for him personally. And then he fights his way to get back on the field. And that's where me and you kind of separated roads. I think he deserved credit for coming back and fighting his way back on. They needed him, even if it was at 70% because all hands on deck by any means necessary. I've deserve, I believe he deserves credit for those things. All right, long story short, I'm not going to put the clock on Larry, but we get to training camp. And I think the narrative of the Wade Ben Johnson talks about Kyler Gordon versus the way he talks about Jalen Johnson is the tell Phil because he's not afraid to go at Kyler Gordon and challenge him. Whereas with Jalen, he's telling us, Hey, this guy is a leader. He's got a fire lit under him. He's working hard. So I

1:16:05think Ben Johnson respects Jalen and how he works. Now is he passed his prime? Has he lost the step? Is the reliability and coverage now? I think those are very fair conversations to be had at this point. And if he can bounce back, we're all hoping for it. But I do think we separate in terms of how hard he works, where his heart is at and what he wants. Yeah, he wants to get paid. That's all he talks about in interviews, but they all want to get paid. I'm not going to hold that against him because he's honest in an interview about that. But I know how hard he works. And I do think he is talented, whether he's a top five corner or not is beside the point to me. I think they could certainly use him if he can elevate his game. It's got to be better than it was here in week one. Go ahead, Jay. Yeah, I just the telling thing for me yesterday and everybody knows that this point Phil wasn't able to watch the game live because he was coaching his team. And Phil and I didn't talk about this. And I brought it up on BHL over on TTL last night.

1:17:09When Phil came on, I'm like, I made the comment that Jaylen Johnson looked like a linebacker in the coverage. And Phil's like, I just said the same thing to my son. And it just he did Greg. And at some point, I think it was Scott, I got a Scottish bear in the chat ad that he's only 27. And he shouldn't be, you know, washed up. Jaylen Johnson has been through a lot of surgeries before he even came into the NFL. So based on town alone, he was a top 15 player. He dropped because he had multiple shoulder surgeries. When you have a core surgery, you know, it's one of your core muscles like he did, it's going to zap you and probably never be the same. I mean, think about it. I will agree with Greg. I got to give Jaylen props for coming back when he did, you know, for the playoffs and stuff like that.

1:18:11I'll give him a tip of the cap. But at this point, so that's in January, we're into September of the next season. And Phil's 100% right. His gate is messed up. And where I'm going to pump the brakes on giving props to Ben Johnson for praising Jaylen Johnson is who's who's the guy that you're going to say, all right, this is the guy here to replace you. They don't have anybody. So that's your only play is to to praise Jaylen Johnson, make him feel better about himself. Because I mean, they traded for Clark Phillips. Where was he yesterday? Exactly. You know, Malik Muhammad is playing nickel because why? Because Tyler Gordon is out. He and Lewis is playing safety. Why? Because Xavier Woods is out. So if you want to say that Malik

1:19:16Muhammad is the next guy in line, then where are you going? It's I think Ben is smart enough to realize that he can't go against the grain with Jaylen Johnson at this point because he's not gotten nowhere else to go with that. He just doesn't. He is. Or he's there. I think I think I think that's fair. But I also just think it's a respecting. He sees that Jaylen's working hard. He understands that he's a step slow, but he's not going to go to the media and bust awesome because he understands where he's at and where they're trying to get him. But they understand, but he is working. And I think that's the separation being Phil. I think you're painting him a little too broad of a brush of. I'm not questioning what he does in practice. Well, you have it. Let's not hold on. No, I question what he has done on in games.

1:20:17And what he always resorts back to in interviews is money and how he's not paid. When you look at games and money, that's where your money is made. You are making business decisions in big moments in games. It's all over the tape. I just don't. I've never comprehended elite talk of this guy. He is not in a elite corner. He's never been that. I think it's just thrown around so randomly. I could go through corners. He was from the era where the bears were so bad. He was the young guy that provided us some upside to get excited about. That's top five corner. There's no way in hell. And that's, that's just being cornered. He's a good corner when he's healthy. And that's fine. And that has it happened in a couple of years, right?

1:21:21Exactly. 100%. One didn't have his best year. And you know what? You got it. And we want to get paid. And we have talked about Jaylin a lot this off season and a lot here during training camp. And I think people are now getting to a point where they're a little more comfortable having this conversation. Because I think last year it was probably just unfair to like, that's why last year I was frustrated with you guys in touch. Because you guys were like, Jaylin's done. We're done. And you're very cold caught about that. Whereas I'm like, wait a minute. I like Jaylin. And he's hurt. Give him a chance. Like, let's see where we're at with it. And that's how I've approached this whole off season with him and Kyler. It's different situations. I'm not going to put them right next to each other. You get to camp. And I tried to keep it open mighted again to bring it back to my vantage point, which is limited. Not going to pretend like I been in every practice or know anything close to what the coaches know about their team. But from the

1:22:21eight open nine open practices that I've witnessed, all I saw was Jaylin Johnson getting beat by Khalif Raymond by Roman Dunesay by Luther Bert. I mean, they're great players. Look at what the Bears did to the Panthers here yesterday. And so I tried to be fair to that. The Bears are really good. Jaylin's trying to work his way back. But it never felt right. There was never a day where I was like, Jaylin Johnson dominated today. And there had been days in the past that that was the case at trading camp. But now this is a different offense. And this is a different Jaylin Johnson, unfortunately. And so all I personally saw was Jaylin chasing a line. But I think another thing that needs to be mentioned here while we're having this conversation is, let's give him credit. He gets burned on a play doesn't give up on it. Let's talk about effort here Phil. And he comes on the backside Dylan Theateman, Chase is down the tackler. Great effort there by Dylan. We'll get to him here in a minute. See, it shows close to hours. But this is I think a really good

1:23:22conversation here. We're having. But Jaylin Johnson comes on the backside and punch it. Peter punches the ball out. And there's that effort on full display. That's a big play in the game. And there's your quarter who's getting cooked all day, but getting keeping a good attitude and not giving up and creating a turnover there. So, you know, Phil, I bring it back to you, but that was a big moment of the game. And I think Jaylin that that shouldn't that be enough for you to give him another week to try to get you to work. But you have no choice. No choice. That's my point. Okay, even if you did have a choice. I would have treated him last year. That's what I was saying because I knew that you were coming to an apex in his ability based on what I saw. Right? I talked about it a lot. I got a lot of hate. And I got a lot of people that agree with me too. I would say it's 50, 50. And then this year, you know, they don't play him much in preseason. If at all, you're tracking him at camp getting beat left and right. And now he goes

1:24:30into the game and he does the same thing. I don't listen. Good play. Great. He had to be a good play because he got beat so bad by it. So it's fair. It's fair. That's the reality of where I live in this. Like this is what I do. I'm like, it could have been prevented if you had good coverage, but you didn't. Then you came back. Okay, but I don't give you a cookie for that. What I do say is like, good play, buddy. Now let's work on the technique better. You know, that was great that you did that, but now we got to get stop it from even happening. I mean, that's my thing. That's the only way you get better. You talk good, better, best. You don't start celebrating mediocrity when hustle is a prerequisite for the job. Like, loathing on a football field for anybody that's a coach or scout of any kind is the number one red flag. And when you don't tackle and you don't

1:25:36put your face in there the way you should. And you could make a third down and two versus a touchdown several times. That's a problem. So that's where going back to selfishness. I talk about in that is when guys are in game like take Dylan, Thiniman. I don't know what to expect from him. But there's an unselfishness as he comes down, fills and finishes the way you're supposed to do it. And shout out to him because that's exactly the opposite of what you're seeing happening with other players, including what I read Stevenson, who also played poor. Well, I like that segue. You set that up perfectly because we will get to Dylan Thiniman and Malik Muhammad and we will try to close this shop here soon. But like again, I think we're dialed in here. This is a good place to be. So let's let's bring Ben Johnson into the conversation. He talks about Jalen Johnson

1:26:37and Tyreeks Stevenson and the rough showing they had here yesterday. This is Ben Johnson speaking to the media here just a few hours ago about your veteran quarters. Yeah, well, I have not talking. I have not spoke individually with Jalen or Tyreeks. I addressed the team earlier today and ended up breaking and going with their respective coaches. I'll circle back with them on Wednesday when we get back together. But you know, both of them I talked to them after the game, the locker room. They were excited that the team won the game. But I think both of them felt like that they could play better than they did. And the tape appeared that way to me. I thought they both had strong training camps. And so really want to hit the ground running. And I don't think we did in terms of what we were expecting in that game. So good news is this. We got a chance next week to come back and start all over again. We've had some instances in the past where we don't play as well as we want to

1:27:38one week and we'll come back the next week and play a whole lot better. And I expect that out of them. They're pros. They know what it looks like. And I know they're also really resilient individuals as well. They know they're talented and this team needs them. So they'll bounce back. No problem. So there it is. Shane, I'll start with you. And also I didn't realize that our mics are hot during audio. So it's good to know here. For future reverts. I'm assuming you guys heard my call off. I'm assuming you guys heard my coffee beginning. That wasn't Patrick family. That was actually me coughing over the audio. Then it would be followed up with a horrible question. But anyways, go ahead. So getting into this, I'm trying to understand Ben here because he never lies at the podium. So you guys, I can't, I totally get your disposition. Who else does he have? What else is he going to say? But then this would be outlier to everything Ben has ever

1:28:42said in a podium because I show me another example where he's made it. He's sugarcoding for a player. Go ahead. Go ahead. Just said they didn't play well and I expect them to play better next week. And so do they. What else could he say? Those are your two guys. I don't know where the kid Phillips is. Okay. Alright. Go ahead. When they're talking about his strong camp, I mean, I think you have to go beyond just the practice field. He can be, he can be, you know, working his ass off in the gym and whatever type of rehab that he's been doing in the classroom and stuff like that. That all is a piece of it. But I go back to they have no other options. They don't. Are they, are they going to turn it over to Malik Muhammad on the outside? Not yet. They're not. And I mean, so what this all comes down to and we talked about Phil looking at the, the coaching angle of this

1:29:43and me more as the G as the GM. So let's just look at the contract. So if the Bears release Jalen Johnson with a June 1st designation, the, the 2028 cap hit is zero dollars. You'll have a $9 million cap hit for 2027. But in 2027, you're going to save $16 million. Can you go into 2027, which is a contract year with Jalen Johnson as is the way that he's currently constructed. I just, I don't see it. I don't. I think you're going to have to, I think just as much where defensive line has got to be priority in the off season. Now you're at the point where corner is I hate to even think about this. But if, if, if you cannot make a trade for a defensive line and let's just say a

1:30:50Jeffrey Simmons is not available or a Josh sweat is not available or, or Max Crosby. I think you have to look at Joey Porter as much as I hate to think about it. For your future, because then you're looking at giving yourself depth because he's going to be a starter. Are you going to resign Tyree Stevenson at this point? No. Are you going to give new money to Jalen Johnson? No. Then you're looking at Joey Porter as a solution. You have Clark Phillips. You're going to have, are you going to make amends with with Kyler Gordon after week four? Potentially. Then that gives you some options. I just that part of it scares me because the the bears, when you bring up the cap and this is something that Phil wouldn't look at, do you want to know what the bears cap room is in

1:31:502028? 238 million in cap space. That could all is going to Caleb Williams. But it's not just Caleb. It's not going to be just Caleb. Then then you're in the room. Well, and that's a whole another huge. That's that's that's that's that's next week's conversation. But Luther Burden doesn't have a fifth year option as a second rounder. That's fair. That's fair. He's he's on the same timeline as Rome. But this is the thing. This is where I brought up my issue with Ryan Poles is being creative. And he's going to have to be creative. If he cannot get a defensive line, then I think you have to look at somebody like Joey Porter Jr. For the viability and stability of your secondary moving forward. Well, and that viability and stability certainly had a little help here in week one from people

1:32:54that maybe we thought would it have, you know, the biggest the fastest starts. And that's the rookie secondary players in Dylan Thedeman safety. First round pick. Certainly a lot of conversations we've had about that decision by the Bears one game in. Certainly you guys already mentioned some early returns there and Malik Bahamid getting an interception, getting in there, getting his hands dirty and really getting it on the action a lot. Let's let's have Ben Johnson set this up and then spend a couple minutes here talking about these guys and finish on a positive note of a bright spot in a in a secondary room that's been much more lined and certainly had a lot of bad things go against it. Obviously with Kobe Bryant getting injured and and on and on and it goes a CBS long receipt of injuries mounting up. But Dylan Thedeman, the Malik Bahamid, your rookies in that secondary shine through here yesterday. Dylan had a great start to his career. I thought he was all over the field.

1:33:54You know, he's one of those guys throughout camp that that he would make mistakes, but rarely makes the same mistake twice. I think he's done a great job in the open field, making sure he's getting tackles ended up being our leading tackle tackler yesterday. I thought he had that force fumble that turned out it was Jaylin came in with the top down punch out there in. So point in case though he was all over the place to a great job stop in the football when he had an opportunity to do so. Kudos to Cam Lewis really next to him as well because he went into the the day not even knowing he was going to start force at safety. You know, we worked out Xavier Woods that morning and when we decided to make him inactive, Cam became our starter at safety and played really really well. So we just wanted to throw him a shout out. And then I think you believe you brought up Malik Bahamid. He played a really good football first day as well. So sticky and coverage competed his tail off. Fearless was really proud of what he put on tape.

1:35:02There is your head coach Ben Johnson, you know, Andil and Tina Minne and Malik Bahamid, you know, quick few minutes here. So I like you guys get to bed, but I appreciate all the conversation here tonight. It's been an electric episode of C H E O Bears after dark. Make sure you hit the like button for both these guys. Make sure you're subscribed to the tape notalyze network and all the content that they're putting across on a weekly and a daily basis coming up on Wednesday as keeping it 100. Make sure your two did Wednesday night for that. But final thoughts here as we wrap things up. Phil, I'll start with you had to be impressed by these two rookie secondary guys. We're talking so much about Jail and Tyree can how they're going to fix this, but those two guys were certainly a bright spot. Oh, yeah, without a doubt I talked to you on the phone and it was impressed with the two rookie stepping up, especially Thiniman really setting a tone with which I didn't know what to expect based on his college tape and some of the things I'd seen in the

1:36:03preseason that were giving me pause. He actually returned to form of what your expectation of a first round safety is going to be and really set a standard for him moving forward that he's going to be a willing physical alley type filler that you are you need these days, especially when you're playing a team on the road and it's hot, you're on rookie and you're in this situation where your past rush isn't anywhere near where it needs to be and you have to make these plays isolated alone and he really impressed me with his open field angles. I call it football geometry when football players have a unique understanding of where they're going to put themselves on the field to make the perfect plays and give themselves the advantage that's necessary when it comes to making a tackle and he was very impressive like watching him on the TV copy and getting to that spot,

1:37:11being able to use his power foot and drive through and wrap up and finish people to the ground. He was I listen, he was the biggest surprise for me even with the score. I wasn't expecting that from him based on what I had seen. So big ups to him, I'm glad my worry and my things that I've been talking about my concerns with him went away immediately because it wasn't just once. It was several times he was put in these positions by the defense. But this is where I I'm this should be the start of the show really. I mean these last 35 minutes should be the start of the show really because like where I get I've always defended you like yeah we talk a lot about the I told you so as that's part of sports conversation and I can go all day about the things I was right about it yesterday's game of which there were many. But and you guys are always the first to say you were wrong about certain things when you're wrong about them and in Colston,

1:38:11Loveland was one of those situations last year whether you were right on the evaluation of who he was as a tight end your statement of the bear shouldn't have drafted him and it up being wrong and you guys constantly will point to that as an example of things you got wrong now fast forward a year later the next first round pick in the Ben Johnson area comes along and you didn't agree with that one either and the book isn't written on Dylan Thedeman but one game in your fill sitting here already conceding how what you thought and where your evaluation is now changing and so for anyone that tunes in and then all the conversations we always have with different content career whoever this is a perfect example of accountability and I just think that that when we're taught when we're going to have conversations whether it's about Jalen Johnson or it's about Caleb Williams or it's here about Thedeman it's always got to be practiced in good faith you have to be honest about what where your takes were when they were made and so I appreciate the transparency because when our viewers watch they deserve to know where you stood and where you stand now because those

1:39:14contacts are important for how we're trying to convey our messaging and the intentions and and delivery in which we do that so Shane I just thought that needed to be said because I appreciate that you about you feel and that's something I live by with what I do with my coverage I know it's a big no no in sports media to ever admit you're wrong you just move on to the next wrong take and I certainly have that skill in hand too but you do at some point have to step up to the plate and say look I'm not even saying you're conceding anything with Thedeman yet but I just really want to highlight I just want to say one thing Shane it'll be quick you know Dylan was my number two safety the perspective was the necessary need of pass rush and defensive line play and thus that priority put Thedeman in that for perspective for the fan that doesn't follow us that's where

1:40:17cash is how our Mason Thomas obviously I want to malachi Lawrence he went to the Cowboys then it was cash is how that would have chosen there that's where my mindset was versus the safety and if you're going to be picked that high you better be starting and doing the things necessary game one outstanding go ahead Shane sorry no it's just you know we we talked about Dylan Thedeman and if you go back and look at it he had two angles early that really was Dylan Thedeman at Oregon and at Purdue that showed up where he was taking bad angles but he's so athletic and so fast he can make it look better the biggest thing that we were worried about was him coming and just like what Phil said and showing that physicality he did that yesterday and it does make you feel that maybe he's farther in his progression now listen now he's got to stack it yeah but

1:41:22what we have to be leery of and people are not going to want to hear this is yesterday was Dylan I was going to leave you off and completely like could say that you wait nobody's going to want to hear this and then I just took you off the screen I didn't want to hear what you were going to say next go ahead exactly but Dylan Thedeman was the leading tackler who was the second leading tackler Tyreek Stevenson who was the third leading tackler Cam Lewis that's all people in the secondary and by the way that's not a good thing everybody so then we get to the fourth guy and it's Devon Bush finally to a linebacker do you want to know who led the team in tackling after Devon Bush on this defense or for the team Rochon Johnson we haven't talked about anybody else on the defense Rochon got a tackle he got four yesterday from who where

1:42:25I'm just saying that he has left with the 59 great easy I love that Rochon not only had a tag where you go yeah he had four yeah but that's my point we had any their counting special teams tackles obviously but it's just like yet my point is Phil this is back in the days with the bears you'd be like oh my Marty Carter had you know 188 tackles let's not a great thing wouldn't your safety is can you be a good tackler but your top three tacklers were all members of your secondary that shows you the issue and what we talked about back on draft day you can do it great I know my frustration with Dennis Allen but let's save it for yeah let's save it it's getting late for you guys it's already almost 10 o'clock at night we're going up against Monday night football but I will probably say that as this show has gone along the audience has just grown and stayed stayed and continued to grow so that's a testament to what we do but

1:43:29Michael White is right I'm I joke to Shane that was bad timing not great producer yeah see I was off screen I should have left them completely off longer and then the joke would have landed it would have landed it didn't land Craig Lex comedic timing I'm learning from you and Mark Carlin the two best that I know in the comedic field uh failure you're you're right behind Carm in terms of comedic I'm kidding I don't know about that I'm gonna stand up tour I think I would destroy Carm in you three would get along splendidly I'm just here to tell you that you'd be surprised Brad Hassee dollar nine tonight super chat from my guy love you Brad as always Greg the third leg says Phil how does the muffin man feel about I think he's got to be fired up he probably stayed a long time on the plane you just saved him up a man talk for keeping it 100

1:44:29barbed in the chat Shane this is for you explain it Shane is this for you says bears such a fun game Phil Shane when are you coming to Chicago for a game this is that we haven't talked about this yet I haven't even talked about this privately with you guys yet yeah I don't know I know our schedules are crazy I'm in the midst of moving into this new house but if barb needs me I'll be there and I'm not even upset that she spelled my name wrong how much does the train cost to ride to Chicago I don't know I thought that was the back of go to a whole different direction but all right now you are out of here there you go there go shade blank name says uh biggest disappointment for me was Devon Bush uh there was a couple plays where he was blocked flat on his back only play looked again heart attack just totally collapsed but that was a crazy fall there

1:45:30by Devon Bush and honestly it reminded me of oh my god it reminded me of in gold and I you know like the different ways this soldier would fall you know uh it that's kind of what it looked like it was very awkward uh but yes so that's it uh I think that wraps things up for all the comments here in the chat we got to all of those appreciate everybody here hanging out as always we got a new member to our youtube chat uh her her take what up appreciate you hanging out with us as always here on CHIO Bears after dark hit that like button subscribe to the channel uh if you haven't already if you're if you made it an hour and 45 minutes into this program you obviously enjoy everything about what we're doing and again as I said before make sure you're subscribed to these guys network and that is the tape never lies network and they will be live on Wednesday with keeping a 100 to continue their bears content which is endless as it is here on CHIO Bears all day every day we will be back tomorrow at 1 p.m. central Brian Baldinger joining the show excited talk to

1:46:38Baldi he's had a few baldie breakdowns of the bears already here over the last couple weeks so we're going to chop it up with Baldi and uh you know just keep my little dog a little darnel right dominance little darnel right dominance little no block no rock uh celebration tomorrow with our guide Baldi so make sure you tune into that and all week long as we turn the page to the minute soda viking so that rats things up for a victory monday here on CHIO sports after three shows in one day thank you to everybody that tuned in all day long we will see you tomorrow keep your head up and always bear down this message is brought to you by the capital one venture x card venture x offers the premium benefits you expect like a three hundred dollar annual capital one travel credit for less than

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