Could Jared McCain Start?

0:00This is straight good to suck Xander and I'm down and dunk. This is Jay-Wheel and I'm down and dunk. They had. They were. I'm Isaiah Hardenstein and I'm down and dunk. I hope like Savior of Bess Flau is the one. I wanted the dorky chamber has been been going pretty well. I'm Aaron Wiggins and I'm down and dunk. I'm Chad Hongren and I'm down to dunk. I'm Mark Degnell and I'm down to dunk. That's it. He just does a big smile and like it. I feel like I got to be here with down and dunk, be here with you. I'm Alice Truso and I'm down to dunk. I'm AJ Mitchell and I'm down to dunk. This is Isaiah Joe and I'm down to dunk. Oh jeez, are you going to sing it good enough for me to guess it or? P&A in no. P&A in no. Geez. I'm Tweetin. Name two famous open homies. Myself and J.L. Williams. Is that a crazy issue? All my friends call me Bob. Where is Rachel? All right. You need Scory. You have the whole life. claim? claim. This is Kason Wallace and I'm down to dunk. This is Mood Dork and I'm down to Dork.

1:00True blood, all gone. That's right. Pretty exciting if you ask me. This is J.L. World Champion J.L. And I'm down to dunk. And E. Burgers. Welcome to down to dunk. I'm your host Andrew Schlecht. We're part of the athletic podcast network. Before I get to my good friend with Kelly, I want to tell you about two other friends of mine and Aaron and Drew Reese of shelter insurance. Give me a call or text today at 405735500 or 4057877142. Are you in Zirt if you need better car insurance, home insurance? These guys are the ones to call. They work for a great insurance company shelter insurance. They're both great guys. They left under basketball. They left sooner football, which they're excited about. Hopefully they are in Zuring the Oklahoma State Cowboys with all the investments they made over the off season because that was bad. And they are in desperate need of insurance. So be sure to go give them a call or text today and support the people that support down

2:05to with me on a Sunday morning. It's a good friend, McKelle, they're like, oh, what's up? Well, we have news that we need to discuss a little bit. It's not thunder centric. I know that there have been like 2500 and 43 podcasts about it over the past four days. But boy, boy, D.M.V.A. went hard. Yeah, they did. And this was, I mean, at some point unexpected, I would say, during the summer, it seemed like, yeah, everything is going like, I hope that people will forget and we will just send a note. And boy, wait, no, that was not the case. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, a podcast that was done a year ago led to the Clippers getting the biggest fine in the history of the league, their owner suspended and five first round drafts taken away. I mean, it's pretty insane.

3:07It's pretty insane. I mean, shout out to the Pobletory again. And just like reiterate, like if you love the NBA, you should be thinking Pobletory because he is doing what he can to have the NBA keep its integrity. Because I don't know that we'd be sitting here talking about the investigation with the Clippers if it's not for Pablo. So it's a big deal. If you love the NBA, we need more people like Pablo out there pushing these teams, especially if you find something like that, trying to keep them accountable. And it was hard to do. It was hard to do. It took a lot of like pushing and a lot of guts. And obviously they had the NBA had their own investigation going on. But like to trigger all of that was not going to be easy. And the fact that you have one of the most powerful people, not only in the NBA, but on the planet that you're going up against, it took a lot of guts for Pablo to do it he

4:12did. And it took a lot of time to get to him and his team. If you haven't listened to the NBA Daily's episode on it, you can listen on YouTube or on the podcast app. But it's great. And it just, you know, it covers a lot of like the story, but then also like a lot of like how do you do this? How did this come of, you know, more some more behind the scenes stuff as well. So definitely worth your time. Dave and I did a great job interviewing him. So. Yeah, yeah, yeah, they were great. And the thing that I want to spend too much time on this because again, many better podcasts than me already discussed this, but I was really impressed by how after, I mean, after you did something unprecedented, something, Pulitzer worthy. You should be like, hey, let's pop champagne and celebrate. He was so, so careful and so, so clear. And I would say prepared to even this 36 minutes podcast to discuss whatever his way of

5:19doing things about whatever his discovery was about like the amount of preparation that took him getting there in the amount of respect for the profession that is putting right now where it has like all he could have. All the, I would say, you could say, okay, just celebrate, just be happy. No, he was still getting at his things in such a professional and perfect way, measuring every single word, measuring every single thought or explanation that he gave to us and Dave. So this to me speaks highly about the sports journalism and this kind of sports journalism where you don't go for the sensation, you don't go berserk and you just throw this rocking them in the pond and like in a, I would say in a non-professional way or in a spectacular

6:21way. No, it's about the minutiae, it's about details, it's about every single thing that comes out has to be 100% perfect. And not many times in any kind of job you do this. I mean, probably people who are has to do it because there are immense legal consequences waiting for him if he fails, but still the fact that he succeeded and the fact that up to this day it was clear to me that it is not done that this is what he wants to do, that this is his kind of journalism, his kind of way to do things, it's just astonishing. Because it's stopped and say, okay, I did my part and maybe it will be, I don't know, because I mean, I will see, but it didn't seem to me that he was like anywhere close to stop or anywhere close to say, okay, I did my part now, it's your turn or someone else. No, this is what he loves. And the fact that people like that should be not ever taking from granted and we should

7:23try to be a little bit more Pablo in our work, like being just perfect, being just aim for whatever the highest possible achievable thing that you can do is and do that with perfection. This is just, this was very inspiring to me and just to connect this to the thunder. This is not the similar to, okay, just do your like measuring of what I'm saying, but I remember vividly this piece about Shay and press the about putting the ball in a certain position on the rack every single night. Like this seems like too much, again, it may seem too much to ever listen to Pablo Thor speaking like the amount of measuring of every single letter that he speaks, but it's the details. It's the being perfect every single time that over the course of one's working life that

8:24that you can get real results. Yeah, I mean, it's a matter of like controlling every single piece that you can control, you know, within all of it. It's like kind of the way I see it with the thunder is like they are, they will have their hands on and they will control everything that they possibly can to make this the best basketball team on the planet, you know, like that's just the way that they operate. And there's a lot of things you can't control. You know, you can't control that a guy like Usman Zhang doesn't turn out like the way that you would have hoped on the court, even though you like give him every chance and give like the right environment, all of these things. You can't control all of those things, but you can certainly control like a lot of other things that the Thunder do. And it's like it's part of why they've been so good. And it's part of why you can't ride off guys like Mara or people like that, you know, he's one, Sam Pressing, his staff chose him, but also he's about to be put in the best

9:25basketball environment he's ever been in in his life. Yeah. You know, and it's a, and it could change the way, it could change a lot of things for him. And so if you have like the proper work ethic and the proper mentality, like a lot of guys are going to thrive here. And a lot of guys are are inspired. I mean, I think about Jay Will. Now much better he's gotten since he's been here. And I do think he's been inspired by teammates and inspired, you know, by the work environment that's been here. And he's like one of hundreds of stories, you know, not only like on the court, but like people off the court as well, you know, that that function within the Thunder organization. Like there's a lot of people that that probably feel this way. So I mean, I feel that way just like being around, being around. That was about just saying all the time, you know, getting to be around Thunder people a lot. It's inspiring. It's great. I mean, it's, it's truly something that makes you want to be better.

10:25So I, yeah, I, it is, it is an inspiring thing. Both probably and Thunder are definitely inspiring. Yeah, it pushes us to be the best version of ourselves. It sounds, it sounds like a cliche. But when you are in an environment where you see everyone chipping in this environment being, I would say, row in the same direction and having a certain standards to do it, you feel like compelled, you feel like inspired to do the same. And overall, this brings to a you waking up at 630 on Sunday and doing a podcast because this is what we do or me coming back to a 12 hours work shift on Monday and doing the podcast at 8 because this is what we do. This is part of what makes, okay, see great, like the fact that they don't take shortcuts, they don't take the easy path, they just push on the things on the details on the, on the thing that I mean, our tiresome and not always easy to do and, and easy to say, okay, let's

11:30just keep a day. Why not skipping a day? Yeah, yeah, yeah, all talks probably all people told that talks maybe allow us 10 minutes. We are getting old, but I think that these things are what really make organizations and and I would say even projects like down to the next successful. So. Well, with that, we do have some listener questions from a post that I had a while ago that was just asking for hot takes and stuff and really just questions about the roster. And so we're going to dive back into that as we get closer to training camp. Josh, we have this one and then two more before media day. So not that much. We're there. You're almost there. And we're going to do our bold predictions pod with you and Alex, which Alex reminded me the other day that he did not get to do bold predictions last year, which I completely

12:33forgot mine. So do you remember which one I made last year? I don't remember. I don't know if we did one with you either. Yeah, probably you did just with the tripod because we did it. We did the bold predictions live last year. Yeah. So we'll have to we'll have to see you missed mine and Alex's that is. I mean, if you're looking for why they didn't win the title last year, look no further, look no further. I look no further than the Russell Westberg old star prediction that puts it like a sensational one or the three men one. Yeah. Yeah. Which which is why I mean, I'm so scared about getting too much hyped about McCain. Now McCain proved a little bit more like he did sensational things against premiere playoff talent. But still I'm a little bit burned by my I mean, idea of three men, which was based on

13:35being him being a super duper gunner and score. Well, let's talk about Jared McCain. First question comes from at OKC underscore dub. I laughed at the ESPN graphic of Jared McCain starting, but it's the pure shooting gravity on the floor that you can't get from case of Wallace or a J. Mitchell. I don't think you can go wrong here, but I could see a world where McCain is the starter by the end of the season. I would be very, very surprised if that were the case. But if you want to look at data surrounding like Shay with a shooter at the wing, I mean, you can look at the 416 possessions that it was Shay and Isaiah Joe sharing the court last season. And there are plus 19.1. I mean, that's pretty good, I would say. And then they had a more limited, you know, time together, obviously just because McCain

14:38only played like 30 regular season games in the playoffs. So it's 244 possessions on cleaning the glass, but there are plus 17 with Shay as the point guard and McCain is the shooting guard. And then with a host of other, other players there with honestly, it's, it's a lot of these bench units that you see because J will, I think, is the most played center with these lineups and carousas like the most played power for some of that was just a product of dub not being available. But yeah, I mean, it's, it works. Shay was shooting works. I mean, it's, it's not like unlike most superstars, you know, LeBron was shooting works. YoKitch was shooting works. You know, Shay was shooting is the same. It works. So I don't think he'll start, but he's going to have a big role. Yeah, starting, I mean, I don't know. I don't think it's impossible to be honest with you.

15:40Because I, I think there is, there are data that suggests that we had hard and signed in chat. You have enough defensive acumen, defensive power, especially if you have J up out there that you can probably be OK with a guy like McCain. You would be, you would be probably better with case of Wallace for sure, defensively, and also with AJ Mitchell defensive, which is why I still have AJ as the highest on my personal liking board. Because I mean, what AJ can give you in terms of shooting gravity is surely less than McCain. Anybody's probably less than McCain. In OK, see, right now, but the ability to just take his men and score. I mean, I really watched a game. I think it was game one or game two against the Lakers. And what AJ and McCain were able to do in that setting where sure the Lakers missed

16:42Luca, which is a big miss. But defensively, I mean, they are not great by any source of imagination, but there was Marcus Mark doing the best job we could on Shay and there were defenders here and there. And as soon as you have smart on Shay and you don't have another one, Mitchell will destroy you. And you have Mitchell end up in how are you guarding those guys? Because I mean, if you go back and watch game two or game one against the Lakers or really any game for OK, see, you could see like three guys, maybe loading up on Shay's side, leaving Ludo completely open. And same with to a certain degree with case of Wallace, not to the same degree, but also leaving chat semi open. So I think that normal offense can be OK if Hartens time is occupying Dunkerspot and chat is semi open because it's still allowing a Shay to have space.

17:48But if these are the only two like weaklings, I mean, Shay will have so much space and with McCain, I mean, the gravity is just totally different. So I'm not sure that it will start because I mean, the defense is something that you want to have right at the beginning of games, but I'm sure that he will have like so many minutes, which is why again, I said it many times, I don't think it's a loss too many things in terms of depth, especially if you get some production from Sturds. If you get like five, six minutes from Sturds and he should step out and ask him all day and you really didn't have any kind of loss compared to last year because to all accounts in the playoffs, Isaiah Joe was not a factor. Whereas McCain is so you just have to replicate which which is not just, but it's, you have to replicate Joe with McCain in the regular season and adding a little bit with Sturds in order to be better in the last year.

18:49Yeah. You also have to think about like defensive assignments, you know, when it comes to the starting position and because what you're doing by starting McCain is like you're bumping up what Che has to do. And so with these other lineups that we've discussed, you know, where it's J will and Che and McCain, I mean, that's typically when like the bench guy start to come in the game and it's not a as difficult of defensive assignments out there. And then you don't have to like overtax Che because whether we like it or not, like Che's responsibilities are going to be pretty similar and he has going, he's going to have a lot of responsibilities. Now you hope that like AJ Mitchell and Doug are healthy and if they are, which I have no reason to believe they won't be. But if they are, then I just don't think that you're going to have to worry

19:51as much there, but also you don't want to overtax Che all season, you know, and you could definitely see a world where that happens. If you start McCain because it'll help offensively some, but defensive, defensively, you just don't want to give him too much, which is kind of been like the thunder secret sauce is that Che is a really good defender. But if he is like the fifth best defender in the starting lineup, that means you have the best defense in the NBA, which has been, which is, you know, bear it out. But also you don't have to overtax him and he can have all the energy to go be the MVP of the other end of the court. And so I think you need to maintain that, which is why Kaisen will also probably start. But also AJ, I think is no slash defensively. I think that he's pretty underrated defensively if people think that he can't be, you know, take all the reefs. Take on a role. If he can guard those the reefs and not be demolished, what else are you really requiring?

20:57Yeah. Like this is, this is why I think that AJ is probably, I mean, Che and AJ can probably be at the same level defensively. So technically he's not the worst defender, Che. I would want to be on his case, but it will be like close to that. And we've seen that working. So I know about Kaisen. I also love the change of pace defensively that Kaisen gives off the bench, which is something that, I mean, whenever he and Karuso starts the second quarter and creates just a mess defensively, this is the moment that I love the most about how he's played. Last year, I mean, you could have those five, six minutes, which is pure madness with these two guys on the court. And so yeah, I don't know. I line up with Che, McCain, Kaisen Wallace, Karuso and J will just flying around

21:57and create a mess defensively. This is something that I'm really looking forward. Can it happen with Kaisen starting? Sure. It complicates things a little bit in terms of rotation because if you start a J Mitchell, then you can sub him out, sub out dub, sub out even the two big men by the end of the first quarter and bringing in the, hey, let's bring these maniacs out there that are just there either shooting bombs or just being crazy defensively and just give Che a lineup that really works. Like the lineup with, with Isaiah, Joke, and Wallace, Karuso and, and, and J will was just a perfect lineup for Shay. Yeah. No one to really hide on. And two of the best, I would say a point of attack defender in the, in the league at your service, basically. But you have like a solid defender in AJ Mitchell and, and having AJ, J WN and Shay, to me, gives, okay, see some just insane.

23:05Opportunities and offends. And if you say you're five best layer, you have to play them. You have to learn how to play them. Yeah. And they, and they will. And you look at, like if you go look for a lineup data on cleaning the glass, you can, you can put the starting lineup in like the typical starting lineup of Shay, Dort, dub, Cheat, and Heart. It's a plus 27.7 in the regular season. Something we only saw 242 possessions of. But if you try to put Kason in there, or if you try to put AJ in there, like, there's no, there's nothing, you know, which, which, now it tells you, like, we don't really quite know what they're capable of. Because we haven't seen it. Like you just like, frankly, just haven't seen it. You know, you put Kason in there, they have two possessions. Yeah, it's, it's nothing. You know, AJ, we plug AJ in there.

24:05Literally nothing. Literally nothing. I mean, so it is just, it's going to be fascinating because there's just going to be a lot that we just don't know that we're going to find out, you know, with, with these guys, including Jared with the starting lineup, because there will be closing line ups. And obviously we don't have data on that either, but there will be closing line ups where you'll need a shooter out there with Shay and dub. And, and maybe you're playing a bigger team where you need both chat and, and heart out there. So I do think that like we're going to learn a lot. I get a lot of it. We think we already know. But, you know, we, honestly, like the version of J Dub that we saw in the playoffs, we don't, we don't know like what that guy can be. I mean, he was, he was phenomenal in the playoffs, you know, whenever he did play.

25:08And so I think it's kind of important to remember that is that there's just a lot, a lot to learn. And in Prestee talks about it a lot about like turning the page and like we, we have to kind of relearn what this team is and all of that. No, I know that people are like, maybe roll their eyes at that to a degree, but, you know, you really look at what happened with their injuries last year and who they got to see on the court. There's a lot to relearn and there's a lot to look at with this roster, even though it doesn't feel like the turnover is that much because it's a lot of the same names. But with AJ and Kason and McCain, those three guys, I mean, we haven't seen them in the positions they're going to be in. Really. And so it's, it's going to be really interesting to see that. And like Kason was like a spot starter for the most part, but like we didn't get to see him with like the fully healthy roster, you know,

26:10as the starter, same with AJ Mitchell and then the same with your McCain. I mean, Jeremy came basically never played on a healthy thunder roster. Yeah. So anyways, I thought it was not there in the back. In order to just, hey, let's see how it works. But the second is like Joe first, and not that that that that didn't work. I mean, and this, it's not me saying that I say Joe was not like a perfect piece for Shay. He was. He improved so much defensively, which gives me hope for McCain. But, but McCain didn't have the opportunity also because Joe and Wigs were there. And, and which is totally natural in the playoffs. He surpassed them, which is why to me, the, I mean, the expectations. And which we should burn. But the, I would say, possibilities. Let's put it this way with McCain are there. And this is why we are excited to see if those were actual growing moments where,

27:12yeah, McCain had his opportunity, took, made the most of the opportunity. And he will grow from that. Or if that was just, hey, it was nothing to lose. And he was fantastic. And now that there's grinding every day, it's not the same. It can be both. I tend to lean on the letter on the, on the former, meaning it was a real moment. And he had a real impact. And this is most of the time conducive to good stuff in the future. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I'm with you there. Next question comes from, where is this? Here it is. Okay. At OKC, the laser, my hot take is it wasn't Chet's fault that he only took four shots. He's not supposed to be the second option on offense and was forced to. He's a player who needs to be set up. He needs, I pull up the play set up for him and missing AJ and Dub really hindered his offensive production.

28:18He's not a one-on-one player. McElay, I'll let you get the first crack at this one. Let's remove fault in general from our lives. I mean, it's, it's a, it's a bad way to frame anything like it's fault. Me, you, his, hers, whatever. And to a certain degree, I agree with, we did yeah, behind the comments slash question. On the other end, there is something about Chet's lack of production in that series, which is to be attributed to him. So I think that both point of views are probably right, saying that it's just Chet not being able to reduce. I don't think it makes justice to what Chet showed in the playoffs in general. To say that it's just because you don't have ball and lures, if it's not on him, it's also not a good point of view in my opinion.

29:24It's probably a boring answer, saying it's a combination of both having a great ball, multiple great ball and lures could have been beneficial to Chet. Sure. With the available amount of players could Chet do more, I think the answer is definitely yes. I mean, Karuso had moments, he wanted those moments. I think that on certain moments, Chet went through the motions. There were moments where he demandable and he didn't get it. But also there were moments where he got the ball and could have done something which he didn't do. Easy for me to say. I'm sitting here, AC on not sweating anything and not being put in such position. So I don't know. It's more complicated in saying, okay, I should have done that than so it's it's bad and and and stopped the your your brain to function a little bit more.

30:25So I do think that it will be a checkpoint with Chet throughout the season. How do I get more aggressive in moments where my team needs me? I mean, you remember we discussed this. The game against Golden State when he was a rookie. He wanted that game. He took a three from way downtown in order to send that game to overtime. He not Chet. He decided this game is mine and I want it now. So he did that in the past. I think that there is a way to get that player back because Chet was that guy. So I think that there is clear work to be done physically and emotionally to have a better well-rounded version. But also it should be a focus from the thunder to unlock that version of Chet on ground.

31:29And when he doesn't take that on his own, you should give it to him to some degree. You should unlock him. You should try to construct plays where it gets his feet on the game to have him ready later. And then I'll stop because I'm talking too much. But it's also about, hey Chet, 48 minutes. It cannot be just first halves or mostly first halves. You need to be productive in every spot. Yeah. Especially late. Yeah. So it's about distributing the effort throughout. Yeah. Yeah. He listened. I mean, I don't think you could, I mean, if you sat in a room with Chet and looked at him in the face and said, I don't think you're a one-on-one player. What do you think Chet Holmgren would say?

32:31Who me? Anyba. Yeah. Who me? Yeah. You would definitely give you the mella who me. I mean, go watch him play one-on-one versus Kevin Durant. And in an empty gym, you think that he's not a one-on-one player? Like, that's just not. That's, that's, that is an excuse. Is he a one-on-one player against Wimbee? Almost nobody is. A one-on-one player versus Wimbee. Could he have been more aggressive? I don't know how you couldn't just scream, yes. Yeah. You know, in that series. I mean, you look at it, there's a stat that you can find on imba.com that is points per touch. And so if you look at the series, like he's, he's definitely like toward like the, kind of in the middle for the most part on like, like touches in general during that series.

33:33But I think he averaged around 0.30 points per touch in games one through six. In game seven, he was 0.11 points per touch. Yeah. Like he, like there's a, there's a number that he can find here. And obviously like the number is four points is also a good one to have. But it's like, yet he just like straight up did not want to look at the basket. And you can go back and look at some of the possessions too, where he just looks like he wasn't ready for the moment. And that's okay. That's okay. I mean, but like I just don't think that the excuse of not having those two there is like the sole reason. And it's, and it doesn't hold a lot of water to me. Um, chat was the number two pick in the draft. Not that you have to be amazing for the number two pick in the draft, but like listen.

34:34Like he, he's not just like some up and coming scrappy guy. Like he's literally the guy that the thunder probably circled in that draft. Like if we could have any player in the draft, we would want that guy. We would want that guy because of his offensive versatility, because of who he is as a defender, because of what he can do off the dribble at seven feet. Like that's, that's who they wanted. And he should be held to a higher expectation. We shouldn't lower expectations for Chad Holmgren, because he didn't perform against San Antonio. I mean, go, go look at what he did against the Lakers. He was incredible. He demolished them. He was the all NBA all defense guy in that series. He was the all defense guy in the series against San Antonio, but he was, he was not the all NBA guy. And if you're an all NBA player, which is what he was last year, he made all NBA. He's one of the best 15 players on the planet.

35:37And he scores four points in a game seven. And you're like, well, it's because no, I'm sorry. No, like would it have helped? Yes, would it have helped Shay? Yes, would it have helped Jared McCain? Yes, would it have helped these out with Kaisen Wallace? Yes, but they're not out there saying like, I mean, Kaisen Wallace is not like the best creator himself. And unless it's the month of February. And he was out there. He was one of the best players on the court for them. So I don't, I don't think Chad would give himself the excuse either. Like I would be surprised if Chad was like, well, Dub wasn't there. And AJ wasn't there. So what am I supposed to do? I mean, I don't think you're going to hear you would hear the same excuse from Chad. At least I would be surprised to hear that excuse from Chad. So yeah, I don't, to me, it doesn't hold a lot of water. Yeah, and it was literally the second worst game in terms of usage.

36:46It was one against the, the sons as well, which was a tad lower. But two of the games against the Sin and Throne Sports, I would say three, four of the games against the game was against Sanitar or against Phoenix. I think it was game three. Okay, we played very little. Well, no, it didn't play very well. It just took like not as many shots. He took like six shots. Yeah, yeah. But that's, it's more of a product from the field. Yeah, it's more of a product of like ever other people being hot. And it like, all right, I'll just be role player. But like in game seven, like they needed him. They needed him to be better. Yeah, she was good. Yeah, it's the game where she went nuts. Yeah, she has 42, AJ Mitchell had 15, Kuruza 13 of the bit. Like everybody just kind of contributed a little bit, honestly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But if you look like four games are the lowest in terms of usage

37:50in the top 10 of low usage games for chat, the games against Sanitar, which to me it's, it says something. I mean, he has to be more aggressive. He has to take more trees. That is the point. I mean, I understand taking less mid-range jumpers because the technique of chat of bumping, bumping, and then getting back and taking like a slow jumper, with when be there, it's a block every time. So I'm okay not having that as a weapon, and that will take away offensive possessions for chat. But trees take them, my man. Just you cannot went down with like one or two trees in a game against San Antonio. Take six, get locked twice. I don't care. Just take them. These are important. And for that, it's my, yeah, it matters also

38:51that he didn't have those opportunities because I remember rewatching game seven, and there were many moments where multiple guys just didn't look towards him when it was wide open for three. So there is a portion of that, in my opinion. There is. It's there. I saw that. Multiple possession for, wow, this is like wide open chat. Why? Why didn't you pass it all? So there are some of these possessions. But also, are you really, do you believe that if chat goes to, I don't know, I don't remember who just didn't pass him too bit. Let's say McCain say, hey Jared, I'm wide open. Next one is mine. But he doesn't get them all next time? No. Yeah. So. Yeah, I'm not buying that. Also, do you guys that are listening,

39:53remember when he took the two shots in the game? There I am. The first one was with 1041 left in the first quarter. He made it. It was a little step back jumper. Yeah. With, I think, yeah, Vassal, he drove. This is hilarious because like, go, you should, you should, maybe, maybe I'm, hold on, I'm going to download it. I'm going to, I'm going to show you guys. We're talking about him not being a creator. Hold on. I feel this in bold and after seeing it. This is crazy. So if you're not watching on YouTube, you should, you should watch it. Crap. Oh, wait, I gotta hold on. Sorry, everybody. But this is worth it. This is, this is worth the wait here. Okay, so this is chat. That, um, with basically at the beginning of the game in the first quarter,

40:53this is, this is, this is his, one of his, this is his only made field goal. So here, here we go. This Alexander sees two that has often been the case. Bones, put you down the deck over the stuff. That's the guy that's not a creator. For you can drove the, the, the right side of the court. Why are you lurking and he makes that anyway? Yeah, just watch one more time and tell me if you think this guy is a, is a creator or not. This Alexander sees two that has often been the case. Bones, put you down the deck over the stuff. Listen, yeah, I have no idea how I can't do this. I mean, he says, took a fade away too. That was his only made field goal. That was his only made field goal. His only other shot that he took in that game, which I'm not trying to like just pick at this

41:53scab, but this question just forces me to. His only other field goal was a floater over Wembee that was also off the dribble, by the way. And they were both in the first quarter. You're telling me, you're telling me that this is all only a product of him. No, no, no, no, the only part is clearly, clearly not. It's again, I stand by the fact that it's a part of it. How big it is. Probably not as relevant as we are. It might be like 25% of the pie of like why he didn't play as well or how they could have cleared room for him, but we all know he could have been better in that moment. Oh, yeah, like there's no question. Okay, let's take a quick break. We'll come back. We'll answer one more question about a dimara over here.

42:55And we're back after that quick break. I want to tell you about my friends over at Ring family, Dentistry, Ring family dentistry takes a straightforward and honest approach to dental care, doctors fail in bread and ring, believing keeping what's healthy, fixing what's not, and only replacing what truly needs it, no pressure, no upselling, just clear explanations, thoughtful recommendations, and decisions that are always up to you Ring family dentistry is a true family practice with a laid back five modern tech and high quality work, including same day crowns, even for your front teeth, plus implants, bridges, root canals, and clear letter therapy all offered in house call to schedule your appointment. At 405-621-1555 or making appointment online at RingFamilyDentistry.com. Okay, our final question of the day is at Aaron underscore Batdorf. That's a great name, Batdorf. Yeah, I don't feel like I've ever said that in my life.

43:58You know how it feels to just say a new word? It just feels good. I really wish the thunder were more aggressive in this past draft. I'm not out on Mora, but I still can't stop thinking about how perfect Burries would have been on this upcoming team. Yeah, I mean, for sure, you can say that Burries could have been a fantastic fit. It complicates a bit the guard rotation, but as we have seen, it's not really a problem for OKC to have many guys. I have no idea if it was a possibility for OKC to trade up and what was the price. Yeah, so I have no idea if OKC just was not, I would say aggressive enough, or if it's just not possible. Now, I think that everything has a price.

45:02We've seen at the time the Shen Gun trade. I mean, there was a team that was aggressive, and if you see, I would say, allowed that big to be made, the value for Houston. I think it was the proper one for OKC not so much in trading back. So I think it's not always easy to find the right value for moving up. I think that two years ago, the case on Wallace move, very bad one, lively, fantastic, awesome. Today, not so sure, actually. It was probably good to move up. So I think that, saying now, addressing now, the Mara versus Burries, without knowing if that was a possibility, but say that it was like two additional first-one picks. Today, it might seem too much, but if Burry becomes an old star or an old NBA, it's an old brainer.

46:05So it's very hard to discuss the draft. I remember me being so, so down, you remember, because we already knew each other back then, when Booker was taken by the sons at one spot before campaign. And that was bad. And I was like, how? How they did not offer everything for book, which turns out it could have been the best, a good bet to offer future picks for Booker because it was perfect. But if the Phoenix son says, okay, you need to give me five first-one picks, four first-one picks, and yeah, we'll do it. Would have been like a good trade? What happens if Booker gets injured or something else? So there is always, it's always so hard to trade. And okay, see, did that for J-Dub? Two years ago. Three years ago. So they are clearly aggressive.

47:11So, trade it up for OOS. No, I will never refer to that trade as trading up for OOS. I will only refer to that as trading for OOS. Yeah, okay. You can view that as you want. I will respect that. But anyhow, so they are aggressive. Yeah. They are aggressive and they can be aggressive to get whoever prospect they like. Probably their evaluation is that either they couldn't get him or the price to get him was so high that getting Mara. It's the best bet. If Mara becomes an all-in-all star center, great. If Mara becomes goal-drich, wrong evaluation. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I I, this is a tough one. Just because we don't have all the information with this. But I mean, I do know that in the past, there has been in aggressiveness about the thunder that

48:11didn't result in anything. And I think that that is probably the case here. We also don't know that Mara wasn't their target all along. There was some reporting around that. So Mara could have been like the guy that they wanted if they traded up to nine. Do we know? Like, do we know that it would have been Burys? Do we know that they would have taken Mojo? I don't know. Like, we just don't know the answer to that. Like, their target may have been Mara. And I mean, if you just like think about it, it's like what do they want size for position? Well, there it is. What do they want? Guys that know how to move the basketball in like creative ways. Check. And you think about how they're going to have to build this roster out. I know that they resign hard to like a really nice deal. But like, they're going to, I mean, like, we think that like it was hard losing Lou Dort.

49:15There's going to be harder decisions around the corner. These are honestly, these are like this last summer was like the easiest of the hard decisions that they're probably going to have to make. And so what position do you need to fill? Probably going to be the center position, which is why they drafted a center in the year before draft and this past draft. And I don't, I mean, like the writings on the wall to me that it would be a little surprising if as a hardstint finished his deal on the thunder, like I just would be surprised. I don't, I don't have that information sourced or anything, but I'm just reading the tea leaves here. Yeah, that like it can be, it can be also very different. Suppose that you find a great deal for K.Z. Wallace, like he signs for, I don't know, five for 75. I mean, this is just the bare minimum.

50:15I don't think that he will sniff that. I will get a probably much higher prey day. But let's play around and say that for some reason, this is the best case in Wallace once. And that starts an AJ Mitchell becomes solid enough defender, solid enough creator, where in a year from now, you have Alex Garuso being suddenly expendable. Yeah. Which I don't think that will be the case. But also the only way to be ready for that is to create from the pipeline guys that can take part of what it does. And I do it better or do it differently. So to me, having ready Mora and and so we're in the pipeline doesn't mean hardens time, cannot sign another counter with K.Z. But there is a price in that. There is a, I would say choice to be made with some cushion,

51:16some alternative without being just taken by surprise. If someone leaves and all of the sudden, there is nothing working anymore. And it's the under-robber some conundrum all over the place. Like whenever that team lost Drey, everything went to pieces. Okay, C is making sure that if you don't have dub, you have AJ Mitchell. If you don't have AJ Mitchell end up, it's probably hard. You're not probably winning, but you brought the spurs to game seven. This is replacing having a replicable formula without having the necessary pieces, which is something that the spurs always did in the pub, in the pub air. If Manu doesn't play, we play the same way. Is it the same level? Same peak? No. No, of course not. If teaming doesn't play, we probably don't win the finals. But we can bear for the regular season. We can just be one of the best teams,

52:24even if teaming plays 55 games, which is probably what OGC is trying to do with this all this pipeline thing. And again, it may be that Hardin sense says, okay, I don't care about getting somewhere else. Let's just find a way. And you find a way. So it's that more so than yeah, Hard to shoot and go on. I don't know. It's doing the right way. I think. Yeah, I mean, they're opening up this pipeline for players. You know, it's what's happening. And Bennett starts his in it and Mara's in it and Otago weighs in it. I mean, there's all these guys that they're like, hey, we want to backfill these slots. And if it works, okay, well, then we have a path forward. And that's what they're doing with these draft picks. And that's why it's like important that they continue to hit on these draft picks, moving forward is that you're not going to be able to afford every single player that gets good on this team. Like you're just not. Yeah. And like,

53:25yeah, it may not be as a heart and Stein that they trade. Maybe it is like Karusso, like you said, you know, maybe it is Jay Will, you know, like there's going to be there will be a player that is like really good on this team. And they will probably be able to trade them for value, which is probably more value than what we saw this past summer. So like that will be to me part of the difference with some of these potential deals. But it's it to me, it's like, it's going to be really, really interesting to see how all this plays out. But like they've they've set everything in motion to be sustainable and to be sustainable around Shay, Dub and chat. And that's and it's like you have to we have to like remember like those are the three guys. Just like with like you mentioned San Antonio, Tim Monotoni Tony with those three. And then they filled in around them and it changed

54:27and evolved through the years. And some versions worked and some versions didn't. And the thunder found a version that works already they've already won a title and now they have to go figure out the next version of the team. But it's all centered around those three. And they didn't win if if one of the three one of those three wasn't available, you know, San Antonio didn't and the thunder didn't win last year, one of one of their three wasn't available. So it's just you know, it's centered around those three those three being healthy, those three staying together. And then like figuring it out around those three is like how this will function. And some of these draft picks are going to really hit and some of them really won't. That's just that's the nature of the NBA draft. Yeah, Alex and I like went and rated everyone of San Presti's picks, you know, like there's some that really hit and there's some that really didn't. And that's just a part of drafting NBA players. That's just a part of it. It's really it's really hard. It's really, really hard. But I'd be surprised if both Mara and Stuart's both didn't work. As you guys all know,

55:32I'm way more of a Stuart's guy than a Mara guy. But I'm not I'm not as as the the question Asker said, like I'm not out on Mara either, you know, like I I need to to see more. But they're all they're all in market. I mean, all the like this like core of young players was all at the OU game the other night. McCain, Sorberer, Sturts, Justix, Brooks, Bartisers, Topic, and Mara were all at the OU game together. You know, so they're here in market. I mean, Topic is a part of this too. You know, Topic is a part of this young group too. We talked more about him last week, but you know, it's you know, there's a lot to figure out with this team. Like that whole group that I basically listed there really outside of McCain. I think we know we have McCain, but like everybody else, it's like and even there we know the bare minimum of McCain. Yeah, I should not say the bare minimum.

56:33We know what McCain showed us a year ago, which which was very good. Yeah, but I mean, easy data as a score or can he be better at the score? Can he be a real three level score at the rim? Can he be better than what he showed at the rim? Yeah, he's got to be at the rim. Yeah, and if that happens, it's not the same. Like it's a different brand of scoring that obviously never had of the bench. So we shall see. Yeah. All right. Oh, they had came out. So maybe a bit with that, but yeah, that's true. That's true. Okay. Sorry. I said, hardened would have been good on that team, I think. Yeah, just a little speculation. Hope everybody's enjoying their Labor Day weekend and just trying to take some time to relax. I will be spending Labor Day with with my kids at a gym. They're playing a

57:41three on three tournament tomorrow. So wow. So actually, I'm actually very excited about it. There's nothing that brings me as much joy as watching my kids play basketball. It's just the absolute best. So looking forward to that. Hope you guys are also enjoying your Labor Day weekend. Have a great Sunday and we will talk to you guys again on Wednesday. Yeah. Hard and super soon.