England v Spain Preview

0:00College football is back. So, Hilton called to me the superstition concierge to make your fan rituals a reality. Need a room to match your lucky number? We got you. Want to make sure our team doesn't wash your lucky jersey? Oho, that smells lucky. Hilton's unmatched hospitality can keep up with any superstition. Even a marching bandwink up call it 555 and 55 seconds. Hit it! When you need a team that will do whatever it takes on game day, it matters where you stay. Hilton, for this day. This episode is brought to you by PayPal. You know how a mom's bag has everything? Sunscreen. Snacks. A stapler. The new PayPal app is like that, but for your money. Shop, pay, manage your account, and earn rewards all in one place. And with purchase protection on eligible items, biometric security and pasquies, you're protected at every step. Download the new PayPal app to get started. See PayPal.com slash protection terms. This message is brought to you by Apple Card.

1:02With Apple Card, you earn unlimited daily cashback on everyday purchases, like groceries, merch, or tickets to the game. Plus, it can be used anywhere MasterCard is accepted. No matter your team, no matter where you shop, Apple Card is here to help you tackle game day. Apply in the wallet app on your iPhone today. Subject to credit approval. Apple Card is issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA Salt Lake City Branch, terms and more at Apple Card.com. Hi everybody and welcome to the preview pod. It's me, Al, with Sid today, Kitcho, still away in the United States, with CBS. We are here, and we are looking ahead not to LaLiga, no Spanish football this weekend, but there is Spain against England at Wembley Sid. Hang on, did you just say no Spanish football this weekend? Al. Nothing interesting, nothing of high quality is there, I mean. There's the Asturus, aren't we? The biggest game in the room. Yes, you're right.

2:02Yes, you're saying. Are you saying? Spain are going to Wembley, which is not a bad place to start your... I don't know, what would you call it? Start your life as well, Champions. Would you call it that? I suppose you would. I suppose Spain got to play pretty much every other big team this summer, not England. We thought we might get a Spain England final, I thought we'd get a Spain England final. It wasn't to be. It didn't happen. But at Wembley on Saturday, we get to take a look at these two teams. Taking each other on, Sid, how are you feeling about it? I'm feeling that obviously the key thing for Spain really is a sense that, you know, while you've got the World Cup, you don't rest on that. That you continue to compete. And I think, obviously, one of the things that they've demonstrated is that they do that. That there's a continuity of mentality as well as style and approach and so on. Spain are... I'm going to completely conscience myself. Spain are theoretically 35 games unbeaten. I'm absolutely not having that stat, except, of course. I very clearly am having that stat because I've used it myself many times. They lost one of those games.

3:04They lost it on penalties, but they still lost it. I have a sneaking feeling that they might lose this one. Look, I mean, England, you know, England are good. I mean, I know everyone... Exactly. I know everyone kind of gets... I mean, obviously we're English, right? So we probably sort of have a sense of this maybe. Certainly more than those of our listeners who are not in England. Everyone kind of gets very down on England. England are over the last 10 years consistently really, really good. They just haven't quite taken that final step yet. Indeed. Yeah, they've got some finals, haven't won them. At the workup, there's someone didn't get to the final, got knocked out in really quite frustrating fashion. The way that it happened to quite a team. I'm not sure they were massively overplayed by Argentina, weren't they? Yeah, that is true. See, you've been around the Spain camp this week. Would you like to tell us who you spoke to yesterday? Yes, I went... Yes, I was there the day before yesterday. I went to see L'Amini Mal, which was quite exciting. And he is fabulous. He's very, very impressive. He's very sharp.

4:10There's something about him. There's something there. I mean, not just a footballer, but as I was going to say, as a man, I suppose he is a man, now he's 19. But as a kid, there's still something very childish about him. And yet at the same time, there's a clarity with him. There's an awareness of the seriousness of what he does at the same time as a lightness in the way that he plays. A sense of fun in his approach. A kind of complete confidence in himself, which then comes with some contradictions because he does talk about the pressure and does talk about. And I think he's very aware of the things that people say about him. At the same time, he's not aware of the things that people are saying about him. But he's usually impressive. And of course, he is a kid who has said a lot over the last two or three weeks, particularly as a discussion has started to center on the ball and door, which I must admit our discussion didn't. Because I'm a little bit bored of it. And to be honest with you, I think he's probably a little bit bored of it.

5:13At least, I think he realizes now that this has become kind of a campaign. And I think he doesn't really want it to be a campaign to be honest. But he's very clear. And he said this a lot over the last couple of weeks of his status. And I think he very clearly believes that he is the best player in the world, or one of the two, maybe three best players in the world. He even said in interview with Chorrevalano, which I thought was very interesting, that it's him and Killian Embapey. And he's interesting the way that he posed it as there being two players, if you sort of mean, and almost kind of a messy Ronaldo style thing. And I think he thinks that his time has come. And this is, we could have 15 years of him still. Well, maybe not 15. In fact, could he play to 34? Yes, probably could. I mean, let's hope so. You know, Messi has stoned that he did this summer that anything is possible. Okay, see, we're looking forward to reading that in the pages of the Guardian on Saturday, I presume.

6:15No spoilers, but any little bits that really stood out for you in terms of things that he said or anything really. Well, I thought there were loads of things that he said that were really interesting. There was one we talked, one of the things that I really like, we talked a little bit about the idea of, and I won't give you the other lines, it's lovely, and I'm not going to spoil that one. Save it. Save it. But the idea of getting the ball, kind of facing down an opponent and feeling the stadium, kind of saying to you, go on then. You know, and that sense of performing for them. And he said what I thought was interesting, he said that that was very noticeable in the US. And it was, I mean, you and me were at Spain games that every time Lameen got the ball. Oh, yes. The stadium rose. And that maybe more so than in European stadiums, maybe because it is a different type of crowd, maybe it is, and the way that Lameen put it was this idea of it being an aspect pack, like a show. Yeah, I've come to say, is this kid that everyone's talking about really that good?

7:17Let's see what he can do. And he put someone on the ill boards on the side of skyscrapers, that's kind of clean. Exactly. And he was everywhere in the US, wasn't he? And he was very conscious of that. And I also very briefly did mention to him that, that me and you and him were all in Nashville on the same day. He says, no, it was how my first day off went to Nashville. So he said that I, did he not, did he not visit the 20 cash museum? Was that not top of his list? No, he didn't. He went to eat, but he said he met to his able, he said one of the nice things was that he was able to stroll around. And actually that's part of this as well. This idea of fame and not having your own life. And one of the things that was nice in the US was that you could stroll around and kind of do what he wants. You know, we all saw that footage of him in Walmart. He said, you know, he did actually say, I like the atmosphere of Nashville. All these cowboys everywhere. It's, I thought it was great. But the curious thing actually, I mean, it's, it kind of a little insight into into, into, if you like, the kind of very simple things that, that sometimes you feel like you can't do.

8:17And he said, in the US, if we stop for petrol, you know, in one of these typical 24 hour places, I could get out and go and get something. It wouldn't be a problem. Yeah. Wow. I imagine being involved in that kind of environment. And he was fascinating on, on the talk of kind of, if you like, the idea of fear being something that's outside, football, not in football. And the football. And, and, and I thought as well, one of the interesting things was his sense of responsibility towards his family. And so much so that it was a bit near the end. And, and he said something that kind of drew, that kind of drew the conversation background. As you know, there's another contradiction here that you, you know, we're talking about a 19 year old kid. And, and you know, a 19 year old kid who in many ways is still a 19 year old kid, you know, let's face it, this is me as well, you know, he doesn't mind a packet of sweets. He doesn't mind, you know, that kind of thing. And, and, and, and there was this, he was talking about the sort of responsibility towards a family and so on. And you get to that contradiction, you think, here's a 19 year old kid who's basically the father to this family looking after his mum and his dad and his little brother and with his little brother very much the, the, the father figure.

9:27And he's very interesting on the mechanics of the game, actually. And it's interesting how much he thinks about it. And he was telling me about the, the, the, I won't spoil this because I thought it was really interesting. And I hope that people reading everything gets interesting too. He was telling me about the goal in the World Cup Final. And the thought process in terms of what he did to help set it up. And the way that that was a conscious plan. And I thought that was really interesting. Nice, nice ones. Well, yeah, looking forward to, to reading it. Let's get back to, to Spain, England. You mentioned, you know, what do you do when you're world champions, you know, first game, first game back, it must be, I mean, look, you know, Spain have gone from winning the Euros to be in the World Cup. But no, it must be a slight, I don't know is it must be a bit difficult to kind of keep the momentum going, mustn't it? Because you've just, you've just reached the, you know, you've just climbed Mount Everest. You've just liked on the best thing you're ever going to do in football. And what comes next is not, it's not easy.

10:28Yeah, when you're to use the cliche to murder the metaphor, you've just begun there. And you know, once you get to the top of a mountain, there's only really one way to go. And that's down it again. In this somehow, you can leap across the next range. And obviously what, what the, the kind of to really murder the metaphor, the next stage of it is what got gone climb another one. And that's what they're trying to do. I think there's a, there's a few, there are a few things that, that I think possibly mean that Spain can continue to do. So one of them is just the mentalists they've got generally the other is that Spain with Spain. And we discussed this yesterday. Didn't we we had this debate about whether, whether Louis de la Fonte, Spain is the best one. There is still in terms of success. They are still not there yet. Because of course, they're always measured against another generation, which won euros, World Cup, euros. So there's maybe that's useful for them in a way, because it says you're not there until you win the next one. I also think that, you know, there is, I think there's something we don't always think of. And there's this cliche, which I think is true actually, but I also think it's a bit of a cliche, which always says, oh, the easy thing is to get to the top.

11:34The hard thing is to stay there. Now for what it's worth, I don't think it's easy to get to the top. So that's the first problem with the cliche. You know, and it's harder to stay there. I don't know. I reckon it might be harder to get to that point. But I had this discussion funny enough. This is a slightly random one, but I had this discussion with Andy Goldberg, who of course is the owner of New Yorker, but a former tennis player. And he was talking about this with me, and I said, oh, come on. I said, this is a bit of a cliche, isn't it? And to be fair to him, he did say, look, I'm not talking about me because he was never world number one, but you know, he was mates with people like Matt's for lander, Ivan Lendel, that whole generation of great tennis players. And he said, you know, I talked about this with him. And who was the, I think maybe it was Matt's for lander, but the example came from. And he said that Matt's for lander said that, you know, he'd been world number one briefly, but couldn't stay there. And one of the reasons was is because you'll fight so hard to get there and then everyone's going for you. And that you kind of, you need something special to be there. And you need something special to stay there because there's that weird noise. Can you hear that? It might have been a passing bus.

12:35Oh, that's right then. Wow. Yeah. For a moment there. I thought, what's the weird stuff? Sorry about that. And anyway, basically, he sort of justified this theory. But I think there's another thing that happens. And I think that when you are the best and you win all the time, you're almost, there's almost a pressure to stay there. But the sense of failure of then losing is almost greater than it is for the team that wasn't winning before anyway. You know, if you lose now, it's like, oh, shit, we were supposed to be the best and we've lost now. And so I think there's a degree of pressure there, which might not be a bad thing for them. I think they apply that pressure on themselves. I think listening to Luminus, they, for example, he talks a lot about, well, why not get another one? Why not be the best team ever? Why not win two or three or four of these? You know, why not keep on going? And obviously, you know, it's easy to say it's harder to do it. But I do think that Spain have some of the qualities for it. I also think that because Spain has such a... What would I call them? A stylistically continuous team. I mean, that's...

13:37Yeah. It's more about the collective and the collective style than it necessarily about... Exactly. And so of course you've got Luminus. But otherwise, yeah, it feels a bit like the pieces can change, but the overall piece is... The pieces can change and maybe even the motivation can change in a way in that maybe some of them can feel well we've got it now. But maybe those players can be moved on and other players come in. And maybe the fact that you've got such a clear style kind of sees you through some of those slight troughs in in motivation. I don't know, that's a theory anyway. It's very, it's very conceptual. It's not very concrete, but I think there might be something in that. College football is back. So Hilton called to me the superstition concierge to make your fan rituals a reality. Need a room to match your lucky number? We got you. Want to make sure our team doesn't wash your lucky jersey? Oho, that smells lucky. Hilton's unmatched hospitality can keep up with any superstition. Even a marching bandwick up call it 555 and 55 seconds. Hit it! When you need a team that will do whatever it takes on game day, it matters where you stay. Hilton, for this day.

14:42This episode is brought to you by PayPal. You know how a mom's bag has everything? Sunscreen? Snacks? A stapler? The new PayPal app is like that, but for your money. Shop, pay, manage your account, and earn rewards all in one place. And with purchase protection on eligible items, biometric security and paskeys, you're protected at every step. Download the new PayPal app to get started. This message is brought to you by Apple Card. With Apple Card, you earn unlimited daily cash back on everyday purchases, like groceries, merch or tickets to the game. Plus, it can be used anywhere MasterCard is accepted. No matter your team, no matter where you shop, Apple Card is here to help you tackle game day. Apply in the wallet app on your iPhone today. Subject to credit approval. Apple Card is issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA Salt Lake City branch, terms and more at Applecard.com. We'll find out over the next kind of two year periods. You mentioned changes in the team. How different if at all do we expect the team to be to the one you saw at the World Cup?

15:53I don't think we expect it to be very different at all. Obviously, Mark or Schoen does isn't there, but then he didn't start the final anyway. Pedro Pardo is there because who did start having isn't there. Eric Garcia. Eric was on the front page of at least two of the papers today. Yeah. And Luzer and Francis said that himself. In fact, when the squad was named because he was asked about Mark or Schoen they said my right backs are because he only had one really. Are Pedro Pardo and Eric Garcia. Pedro Pardo is now outside. Even flex Nether was called up, but I think it would be Eric Garcia. I actually think that does change them quite a lot because I think stylistically he's a completely different player. Completely, particularly to Pedro Pardo. And you know, to your end to as well, but your end day was, you know, didn't have the kind of if you like the you're into have the physicality, but maybe not the infuse as if you like of Pedro Pardo. And you're entering an Eric are both kind of like plays you can fit into all kinds of different positions and they form whereas Pedro Pardo is sort of one thing and you did that thing. Exactly. I also think obviously the moment is different and you know, we've been talking a minute ago about motivation and stuff and I do think the moment is different.

16:55I do think there is a bit of a mindset that says we're back to being spain being a problem and mean the way rather than the thing that everyone's watching, which they had. You know, thankfully become for a couple of weeks in the summer and it wasn't a whole tournament. It will probably have a couple of weeks, but they did become that thing. I do think there's a sense of honoring what they've done and trying to support it. The rest of the team, how different will it be? I think it would be cool by seeing a port. I think it would be cool today. I think it would be Rodri with peddry. And I would guess Fabianne. I think we might see three of them and I think we might see something closer to a 433 than a 4231, which we saw at the Euros. But then I also wonder about Olmall because Olmall's not had many opportunities at the start season for Barcelona. And I actually think that Luis de la Fuente is probably more alert to this. I was going to say the psychology is that the right way to suppose is the psychology or the emotional side of it than we think. I think he may well think, almost who's not getting the opportunities, I need to kind of back him and encourage him.

17:55And you know, because Olmall was wonderful at the World Cup as well. So maybe it will only be one of Pedrry or Fedomin. And I wonder if Pedrry and Rodri, which was seen as a potential problem for Spain at the World Cup and Pedrry dropped out now that they're playing together for Barcelona, if that problem, you know, although the role is not exactly the same. The style maybe that starts to go away. I think it does go away because because they're playing together at Barcelona and that that has two things. Obviously the fundamental one is it gives them the time to adapt to playing with each other. That's the first thing. But I think the other thing is it gives a model for the Spain manager to follow. But it's not chance that the Spain manager turned to Pedrry as a deeper midfielder when he started seeing how well it was working for Barcelona. Let's not forget that Luis de la Fuente thought Pedrry was number 10. There's nothing wrong with that, by the way. I'm not saying that as in like, oh, you idiot. But he had Pedrry as a number 10 with a bit of freedom. And we all thought that was quite nice. But it sort of didn't work as well. And I think Pedrry prefers the game a little bit more in front of him rather than turning in those types of spaces. I actually think Olmall is almost better at that than Pedrry is. And Pedrry is a wonderful football, I would.

18:56And he certainly could be a brilliant number 10 or at least a brilliant midfielder with a degree of freedom. I think what will happen at Barcelona is he will learn to embrace that freedom, but from slightly further back. And I think what will happen is that Luis de la Fuente will see it. And if it starts to work and obviously so far this early science area does work, then he would do so. But as something we said yesterday, and I think this is worth repeating again, we shouldn't fall into the trap of assuming they're the same things. Barcelona's approach is very, very different. And it's very different part because what's at the top of the bitch. And not just now with Raffaemia being this wild number nine who's everywhere and dragging the team around. Because that's very different to Ayatthaba. But even when it wasn't Raffaemia, even when it was either Faran or Levantoski, that was different. And the approach is different that the line was played higher and the aggressiveness was different. And I, you know what I'm interested in seeing now in this spain team. What for me is the biggest change between the euros and the World Cup. It's the two wingers, isn't it really. And in the two wingers in a way, I suppose what I'm really saying is the one winner, Nico.

20:01But at the start of the tournament, it felt like it was both of them didn't it that this wasn't that dynamic team that would go long that would have people running at you because Niko wasn't really fit and Lameena arrived, not quite fit and eventually got there, but arrived not quite fit. And so we saw an adaptation which basically meant Alex Bienner. So for me, the big doubt is, is Bienner start as Nico start. And how long does that last? And at what point does the left one say, you know what I want my flying left winger back rather than Bienner, who was brilliant at the World Cup. But isn't a flying winger. He's a different type of winger. Okay, so you've got to go and write your Lameen interview. Before we go, we usually do predictions on this podcast. You fancy a prediction for England Spain. Yeah, I mean, I think Spain or a better team, I do think Spain or a better team. I know that's not saying anything particularly amazing. I think they'll keep they keep the ball better. It's just a bit of me that wonders if the occasion, the moment the quality of the team in front of them. I am leaning towards a one one now. But you know what, as I did suggest that possibly Spain could lose. So I stick my neck out and say the England win two one.

21:06Okay, let's see how that goes. All right, Cites. Thanks to your time as always. I mean, joy writing Lameen everybody go and read it in the Guardian when it's up on Saturday. And we'll be back next week. All the usual T.S.F.B action. International break continues, but we'll still have Monday pot talking about what happens at Wembley and then the Q&A part and everything else. So join us for that. But bye bye for now. Cheerio. Yeah. Yeah.

22:08Yeah. Yeah.

23:08Yeah.