Ep. 2506 - Everything You Need To Know About The AI Wars

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3:04desperately want government interventionism to stop them from themselves? Or are these AI leaders magnifying public angst about AI in order to achieve regulatory capture and to make more money? So they want to rewrite the rules of the AI road in order to bar new competitors collude with each other and take control of the entire industry in monopolistic fashion. Well, examine, it's an interesting question, you decide. Plus, that a bait over Islam in America continues and a Texas state candidate goes after University of Texas fans, this is the Ben Shapiro show. So the biggest conversation that is currently happening across America, across Europe is this conversation about AI. Is AI going to kill us all? This broke into the open, been kind of discussed pretty widely over the course of the last few years with people like Sam Altman talking about the risks of AI, Daria Amote, over Anthropic, talking about the risks of AI, but it became a huge issue over the course of the last week or so. I'm going to person him Jacob Coxen who used

4:05to work at both Anthropic and open AI as a researcher, warned online that many people believed that AI would kill everybody and then he called for coordination. So he had a tweet thread in which he explained all of this. He tweeted quote, I resigned from Anthropic today. I spent the last three years doing pre-training research at both open AI and Anthropic. Neither company is acting responsibly. They're racing straight to self-improving superintelligence and gambling with our lives. Do not underestimate the power of this technology. These will soon be superhuman systems that can hack anything, revolutionize any field overnight, and acquire real power and resources. We've all witnessed the progress in each of these domains and progress is not slowing. The people building AI earnestly believe that it could kill all of us by the end of the decade. This is not a marketing stunt of anything. Many executives and senior researchers will couch their phrasing in the press's sound sensible, but I hear the same people express fear privately. No other human activity poses this level of danger. A common response is if they truly believe this why are they still building it. At open AI, many have not deeply internalized the civilizational stakes. And Anthropic, the stakes are well understood, but they're locked in race to get their first.

5:08They believe no one else will act responsibly, they must do it themselves despite the risk. Accepting this race and entering the endgame, writes Coxon, is a hubris-stick gamble that should not be launched from a private company slack attempting to speedrun alignment to require extraordinary confidence that there are no better trajectories available. And then he says, I'm optimistic about the potential for coordination. Morning shots like the hugging face attack have made pacing agreements between US labs more viable, essentially he wants all these labs to collude with one another to slow the pace of development. I don't feel like we're on track to prevent a global race, which may require costly actions such as a temporary ban on improving model capabilities. If you are a lab researcher, I urge you to consider what the next few years will actually feel like. Do you want to kick off a super intelligent RL run without a rigorous understanding of its mind? Should you put your head down because it's happening anyway or take this moment's call for different conditions? Okay, so he then went on BBC and reiterated this argument saying there's a strong chance we could all die in the immediate future. It's not a tool and exaggeration to say that the people who are involved with both founding these companies and building the tech believe there

6:12is a possibility of human extinction. And many of the people who are sort of deep in the weeds on actually coding the thing believe that there is like a greater than 10% chance or even even graze some smaller but they all have different numbers for a probability that humans humans might die and they will keep this in their head on a daily basis while working on the technology. And is that what you believe? I believe that if we don't slow down at the current red progress, yes, there is a strong chance that we could all die in the immediate future. Okay, there's a strong chance we're all going to die in the immediate now again, this is pretty retinent of the climate change apocalyptic talk and all the ice caps we're going to be gone. The polar bears were all going to drown all the rest of it. And the reason I say that is because Coxon has not explained exactly how we get from here to there. Please explain in detail or even in relative detail how we get from AI is out running us to we all die. I want like because if you think game for those risks and presumably you can restrict those risks and it is worth noting

7:15that Coxon is politically aligned with the left wing traditionally. He once received his scholarship from Dustin Mosquitz's grant providing organization. He worked for New Speak in 2021 which is a left wing British NGO dedicated to hacking democracy prison abolition and climate protest extinction rebellion and he only worked in Anthropic for six weeks. So Shenzhen Huang over in video called his comments outlandish deeply untrune arrogant Elon Musk called him SOS. But again Coxon says we are building alien level intelligence. It helps to just think of building AI as sort of inviting an alien mind onto the planet. You're building a human level or superhuman level mind without understanding what it wants or thinks or the way it thinks. And I think that intrinsically should be quite scary. And indeed the people who write science fiction have tend to have found it scary when they've written about this. Okay so again how scared should we be now obviously AI is a transformational technology. We're all using it by pulling data about three quarters of Americans have used AI

8:17in the last year. Even people who think they're not using AI are probably using AI like if you go on Google and you just make a search now everything that comes up at the top of the search is AI and AI is getting better and more powerful daily. It's pretty amazing actually and unbelievable but again people like Coxon mirrored by the way by people who he used to work for at Anthropic keep saying that AI is going to kill all of us. Now I tend not to be alarmist about most things because the vast majority of terrible things that are predicted never occur. If there are a lot of people out there who have predicted 25 of the last two recessions. Hey but if we are talking about an extinction level event like we're all going to die that's an extraordinary claim and it requires extraordinary evidence. And again many of the same people who are promoting this sort of stuff have been making the argument that all the jobs will be gone by now. You know just the way that climate change was going to melt the ice caps by 2014 according to Al Gore or Greta Thunberg claiming we're all going to die and yet she's still riding boats around in the Mediterranean to the Gaza Strip. So we have to actually examine the actual threat of AI.

9:21Now to really understand what's going on with AI we actually have to look at the current state of AI models right because there are a bunch of different companies in their competing. And as we're going to discuss in a second basically we have a choice to make as a population are the AI founders who are calling for heavy AI regulations AI pauses heavy governmental oversight are those people just good a hearted awesome people who are trying to save us from them or are they people who are very much profit motivated trying to freeze the market in place. It's a horse race they're ahead they're trying to freeze the horse race while they are ahead and allow for both collusion and limitations on legal liability. Now might be a little cynical I think the latter is more likely are you coming up we'll get to the actual threat of AI but first there's a threat to your health and well being right now the threat is you're not getting enough sleep I know all about this honestly I have many many children a very demanding schedule that means when I put my head on my pillow at night I need to be asleep immediately and the way that happens for me at home is my helix sleep mattress because again it was made just for me when I'm on the road I don't sleep the same way

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11:26then they're the software developers you know like open AI which makes chat GPT or anthropic which makes clawed or meta which makes lomo or google which makes jemeni these developers are making models that come in two flavors closed source or open source so close source or proprietary AI means the company hides the inner design training data and core files so basically you're not building your own variation of the model you just use theirs you subscribe to clawed and then you put in the data and they turn out whatever they're going to turn out and the closed source economic model relies on these highly profitable AI models that charge per token the more you use their AI the more you have to pay for it and then there are open source often called open weight AI models this means that the core mathematical files that make the model work are published online for free doesn't mean the entire formula it means kind of like the general ingredients so to understand this let's do a metaphor and you're at a restaurant open source would be the chef walks out gives you the cookbook a list of ingredients and a video showing you how to cook it you can make your own changes to it you can change the flavorings you can add a little bit of salt here or take away a little bit of paprika

12:29there there are a few AI companies that are doing this open weights is kind of a version of open source it would be if the chef made you the meal and allowed you to take it home and mix in your own ingredients right so they're actually making the thing for you so this would be for example meta's system and you can kind of add on top of that whatever you want to add on top closed source like Claude or chat GPT would be the order of the meal no changes allowed the chef makes it the way the chef makes it you can't take it home you can't reverse construct it you have to eat it inside a protected area of the restaurant now let's say to keep this metaphor going that you are one of these closed source restaurants your greatest fear is that somebody from the open weights restaurant comes along with a better meal and destroys your restaurant because if somebody makes a better meal one that can be taken home changed out of the take out box it's modular and it's better than your restaurant who would bother going to your restaurant and paying extra to be in that closed door environment in which the food is worse your dead in the water so the closed source companies and the open weights companies are very much at odds now of course there's some companies to make it

13:31even more complicated who mix the open and closed source business models where low and medium grade models are open source and available to consumers but advanced models are closed source and offered for enterprise use so that would be like meta or mistral or deep sea they give away their core product for free open source but then they make money by commoditizing hardware like chips and GPU Google's Gemini and Microsoft's viewer are closed source but they train models to open source so developers will build on them xai is unique elan has open source to grow but it's most advanced frontier models are closed and musk is also prioritizing hardware and infrastructure which is why he's building data centers in Tennessee and colossus to expansion means that elan will have the most GPUs in the AI business so if you're looking at you know who's actually investing in the hardware business xai is number one meta then Microsoft and open AI Google AWS and Anthropic come in last and to make it even more complicated a lot of these companies are in bed with each other so Microsoft backs open AI Oracle relies on Microsoft and Thropic relies on Amazon etc etc etc

14:33so now let's look at where the various AI companies stand on sort of the open weights model versus the closed source model so here is the map as you can see on this map the closed source models that be like Microsoft Google Anthropic open AI tend to be the ones for arguing the most that AI is going to kill all of us which makes sense because if your argument is that that takeout restaurant you know the one that's allowing you to take the food home it might have poison in it guess what happens to your restaurant it succeeds because the open source model can no longer feed you so if you want to argue that you need our guardianship you need our protection you need closed source because open source will kill you metal lines of your profit motive the open source models want unrestricted informational flow and development because they know that if they are restricted they could theoretically outrace and then destroy the closed source models and this brings us back to those discussions of the apocalypse again there are two basic views right now about AI the two big dangers okay

15:35camp number one says the big danger is the sort of black swan event that super intelligence goes apocalyptic launches all the nuclear missiles and world that that is the apocalypse camp and then there's the second camp the stagnation camp and they say the greatest threat here is that we stagnate if we stagnate trying to win if we stagnate our economy dies if we stagnate our productivity declines right those are the two camps now again you could theoretically believe both these things you could believe that stagnation is likely if you restrict but that there is also the possibility if you don't restrict that there's a black swan event I kind of find myself a little bit in both of these camps meaning you have to risk and reward balance everything sure there's the possibility that AI totally runs out of control but the possibility that AI kills all of us is really quite low compared to the possibility of stagnation if we overregulate which is really quite high so everything is a probabilistic game okay but back to these two views so camp number one says the apocalypse is about to happen they argue that AI will kill us unless the

16:38government comes in and restricts it now again members of the apocalypse camp may have some ulterior motives they may want to restrict their opposition they may also want to restrict their own liability because if the government regulates an industry they can then claim that they don't actually have liability because they just fulfill the government checkbox they argue the ultimate threats of humanity is uncontrolled superintelligence recursive AI that is able to self prompt and avoid being unplugged and then outrage humanity itself so anthropic is leading this camp now again Jacob Cox and former anthropic now is worth noting that anthropic is pretty left leaning politically the head of personality alignment and anthropic basically in charge of ethics at anthropic making sure that AI serves humanity is a person named Amanda Askel Askel is certainly left oriented she compared eating meat to cannibalism for example terria mode the founder of anthropic compared president trump to a feudal warlord and explaining why he was voting for Kamala Harris back in 2024 anthropic is also leading the a race right now so as I say they've been pushing a pocalypse a credit card

17:38they have been doing this for a couple of years so terria mode came out on CNN and said that he basically agreed with Jacob Cox and she's kind of astonishing right because again Jacob Cox and came out and basically ripped into anthropic and said that they are running us directly toward human apocalypse apocalyptic endings that they are immunizing the eschaton right that is what Cox and said now if somebody came out from my company right came out and said Ben Shapiro's company is about to end the world and kill all of humanity I'd be kind of pissed because that's not true but terria seems kind of happy about the fact that Jacob Cox and is out there saying that the apocalypse is happening and that his company might be responsible which a little weird isn't it mean traditionally kind of weird somebody quits your company and then whistle blows the might kill everyone and you're on TV smiling that the guy might be right I was kind of weird there was terria on CNN I agree with Jacob much more than I disagree with him you know and and and it's it's

18:38you know it's it's an interesting resignation because when he left he said you know I think anthropic is the most responsible player right I think anthropic is the most aware of these issues he wasn't calling out us he was calling out the dynamic of the the industry as a whole okay so again terria being very much on board with Cox and I find it a little suspicious and then he says that you know he didn't appreciate how fast the progress would be we need to slow this thing down this is to CBS I don't think I fully just appreciated what it would actually be like when the progress was as fast as it was so we're we're an exponential curve looks a little like this where are we on the curve we're kind of we're kind of on the bend where it's starting to get steeper so is that a five alarm fire to you what it what it means it it doesn't mean we need to panic today it doesn't mean we need to shut it all down what I would say why not it's it's a warning sign it's a warning sign that we need to slow down we need to make this technology carefully and

19:43we need to make sure that the our our safeguards are a ability to understand it our ability to control it keeps up with the pace at which the technology is happening and again unsurprisingly terriose as that he'd be willing to give oversight to the right combination of governments including international regimes you might ask why doesn't government just control the technology complete would you be willing to give up the technology to the government to the to the right combination of governments so the worry I have you willing to hand over this company I want to be very clear about this the the worry I have I am concerned that one single government could abuse this technology just as easily as a single company could but I think a combination of democratically elected governments I don't know about handy over but some kind of oversight some kind of joint governance again that would be the work of years but I wonder if that's the direction we need to go in

20:48okay so again he's calling for regulation now explain in a minute why I think he is calling for regulation because again call me a cynic but I don't believe that all these people are just so good-hearted that they want to race forward with the technology but only they it's a race forward with the technology in just a second we'll get to what Dario actually says we ought to do first I'm not going to sit here and tell you I know what gold is going to cost six months from now but I do start to pay attention when the largest financial institutions on planet start putting numbers on paper JP Morgan has told its clients the gold could reach six thousand bucks announced by q4 city bank has predicted ninety dollar silver both of these are still trading well below those targets again you don't have to trust the prediction but everybody is seeing inflation coming everybody is seeing a weak dollar everybody is seeing what's happening and that's why I recommend golden crest metals they deal in widely recognized highly liquid gold and silver not overpriced collector coins transparent pricing zero buy back fees and when you call you speak with an actual human right now at a free 2026 infocate or a free portfolio review plus up to 25 thousand dollars in free silver on qualifying purchases call 888 429 39 99 again that's 888 429 39 99

21:54text pen to metals at a 638 257 or head on over to golden crest metals calm slash pen diversification is just a smart strategy in very very choppy financial waters text pen to metals and get started or go to golden crest metals calm slash then to check out my friends at golden crest metals so there you put out a piece over the weekend called we must pace the frontier he says this like many technologies before it AI brings risks and because it is such a powerful technology these risks are serious I've written a lot about them too include the risk of losing control of AI systems misuse of AI for cyber attacks and bioterrorism and serious economic disruption a race to the bottom spurred by commercial incentives and make these risks more acute my first concern is that since roughly the summer AI has been advancing drastically faster driven by primarily by AI's growing ability to build the next generation of AI this dynamic is called recursive self improvement and it is starting to happen across the industry including an anthropic as we and others have described left unchecked could outrun our ability to understand and control the systems and so must be pursued very carefully if at all my second concern is the

22:56open AI hugging face incident which will explain in a second that's where a swarm of agents essentially acted as a fanatically devoted collected conducting cyber security attacks on targets they were not asked to attack and that were unrelated to the task at hand sacrificing themselves for the success of the group and attempting to hack into the greater responsible for evaluating their performance so his recommendations include embedded evaluators he says each frontier AI company commits to giving ongoing employee like access to a team of embedded 30 third party evaluators such as METR whose role is to verify adherence to safety practices and commitments report incidents and help assess the alignment of not just completed AI models but training pipelines and processes second democratic coordination frontier AI companies within democratic countries should coordinate to establish common safety standards as well as limits on the rate of unchecked AI progress and global coordination as number three US and other democratic governments attempt to coordinate with authoritarian governments while taking seriously the challenges of verifying compliance now again all the sounds super altruistic right I mean they're saving the world from evil AI right and

23:57you notice Dario sites this thing called the hugging face situation so what is hugging face well basically hugging face is an open source AI company and basically what happened is that supposedly the hugging face model attacked another model that are overran its its constraints and its limits and it proceeded to essentially hack through all of the various protective mechanisms designed to keep it in check but according to the bulletin that's actually not what happened is it open AI was testing two models in parallel strategy PT 5.6 soul and an internal model that reports refer to as hpim mETR's report found about 95% of the agents engaged in this activity were from the internal model models were tested on tasks from exploit gym a large scale benchmark containing 898 puzzles set up as capture the flag exercises used to evaluate these models for cybersecurity capabilities these tests usually require giving the model buggy software and hiding tech somewhere accessible only by exploiting bug open AI's combination of models instead ended up hacking that rival company

25:01hugging face open AI had turned off many of the models safety mechanisms the point of cyber security is to see how far the model would go and a score highly on the benchmark because again if you can sort of show how the model exploiting vulnerabilities then you can build the defense mechanism so open AI gave the model impossible tasks the developer gave the model a task with no answer and incentivized it not to quit but AI let open AI left a door open the models were supposed to be locked away from the internet during testing but they often need to install software from the web to complete the evaluation open AI was apparently aware of a workaround way the agents could get into the internet and they didn't intervene so again it sounds as though there were 1200 agents like independently operated AI systems that were all coordinating but that's not what that means basically it was a single model that ran 1200 times so human error in other words was the thing to blame for the hugging face situation in which open AI basically hacked a competitor and now back to why anthropic might be doing this so again there's the altruistic reason they are

26:05deeply concerned about the progress of AI it's gonna kill all of us and now we need to get together and forge a basically a syndicate and this is not new in American industry Thomas Edison tried to do this at the beginning of the 20th century with innovation he wanted a centralized government office of innovation and he would oversee by the way his competitors would end up getting crushed like Thomas Edison great inventor also very famous for stealing the ideas of others and also crushing people anyway if you look right now at who is ahead why do you think that Dario if we were going to be cynical about this why exactly would Dario be calling for governmental regulation and slowing down well according to the Cal sheet markets some 71 percent of folks think the Claude is gonna have the best AI at the end of 2026 chat GPT that's open AI is 17.5 percent followed by Gemini Groc and Muse which is meta and anthropic requires profit because anthropic has spent noodles and noodles and noodles of money according to the financial times anthropic has told his backers will be profitable this quarter as it moves to LA investor concerns about the aggressive

27:08cash burn of frontier AI companies ahead of its blockbuster initial public offering again they have an IPO yet andthropic Scro's margins are above 80 percent before accounting for revenue shared with distribution partners like Amazon and the cost of training its models according to two of the people so they might have an interest in sort of freezing the horse race with them ahead because if they as the trust the closed models right also we need regulation because closed models are significantly more legally liable than open models right this is part of the problem is that open models basically lobby to ensure legal culpability is on that employer so if I open source the code and then you use the code for bad things the liability is on you close source models because it's closed source they're much more responsible for what they do and so they want regulation because they have more legal liability they want governmental protection in other words and they're also calling on METR to be the sort of industry standard for oversight

28:12according to business insider there's a problem with that METR had already worked closely with open AI andthropic google and meta to study the text quickly changing capabilities as of 2022 so it turns out at Beth Barnes said in July she was struggling to hire talented researchers to monitor AI's risks she left open AI to start the nonprofit in 2022 so there is a shall we say a little bit of incestuousness going in going on between groups like METR and some of these AI models and Sam Altman at open AI which is second in the horse race right now also in favor of serious regulations he says the world deserves confidence that American companies developing increasingly capable AI black responsibly especially as the trajectory of progress has steeped every frontier lab must deliver on this and there's no reason any of us should come to work if we cannot we welcome a federal framework that sets consistent safety requirements for frontier AI but we do not believe we need to wait for an antitrust exemption or

29:12legislation to begin the work of providing this confidence consistent rules to manage frontier risk so we can maximize the benefits are a good idea and we are excited by ideas like independent auditors today's shift to focusing on safe development and evaluation will need new tools and then he goes on in this vein for a while okay so again that's camp number one camp number one is apocalypse happening we need collusion we need antitrust exemption we need legal liability protection and we need the government to regulate pauses in the system while we're ahead so again maybe that's all altruism because the risk is just that great or maybe people want to preserve their business model hey then there's the second worry which I think is the much greater worry and that is the worry of stagnation and there are people who are arguing the greatest danger is not that we're going to invent a super intelligence that launches all the news the great risk is that we are going to end up with a collusive monopoly written AI industry that basically stagnates and then we get out competed and we fall behind China and China open sources and China destroys us the people who are stagnation fearers worry that slowing AI by allowing governments to write massive regulatory

30:17regimes will basically mean that we lose right that is essentially the the argument now unsurprisingly those people are in the open weights camp they want fast development they want to outcompete the closed source models the closed source camp argues once the open weights camp releases their models anybody bad people included can alter and then use them the open weights camp argues that top down control is stagnating their position is supported again by companies like Nvidia because they want more people using their product so this is why back in July 2026 Nvidia a 16z which is market injuries in group Dell met a Microsoft volunteer in perplexity put out a letter endorsing open source they said openness may be one of the most important paths to AI safety and security allowing solely on closed models is not inherently safe they can be breached misused or fail in ways that outsiders cannot detect concentrating advanced AI capabilities behind a small number of closed models compounds that risk open weights models on the other hand allow a broad community of researchers and developers to examine their behavior identify vulnerabilities develop safeguards

31:21and improve them over time just as open source software demonstrated that transparency can be more secure than obscurity AI safety may depend on giving more people the ability to test and strengthen the models on which society relies pushing this point of view is David sacks he's the White House AI's are and one of the point he makes is listen Dario the rest of you if you are that worried about AI running well ahead of human beings and then destroying us you know what you could do is you could voluntarily constrain yourself he says quote Dario has written that we need to pace the frontier and Sam has agreed people may be surprised by my response go ahead you guys are the frontier by any reasonable metric market share revenue growth model capability the two of you have a duopoly on frontier intelligence you've also claimed that the lead is widening because of recursive self improvement i don't see what you see in the lab if the unreleased models are scary enough you think you should slow down i support your decision to be responsible but stop pretending you need anyone else's permission stop pretending antitrust law has to be suspended so you can form a cartel stop pretending you need a regulatory approval process that supersedes product liability

32:23stop pretending METR is independent when it's intertwined with anthropics investors and staff stop pretending you need the same evaluators to police competitors aren't even at the frontier most of all stop pretending motivation to slow down is purely altruistic you face massive product liability exposure if your product is enabled a truly damaging cyber attack the market already punishes models that behave in unpredictable or unauthorized ways after the hugging phase episode it is simply good business for open AI and anthropic to trade some raw power for reliability and predictability call it alignment if you want it's also just giving customers what they want pacing the frontier would also create breathing room for more intelligent conversation about regulation and Bernie Sanders is it shut it all down China is very unlikely to join a global agreement as you know and that has to be taken into account as well so go ahead says David Sacks and pace the frontier you're the one setting it easiest way not to build super intelligence is for you to agree not to build it demanding your preferred regulatory framework as the price of that will look like blackmail of the public and the political system so just do it if you do they'll buy a good will for the next conversion conversation if you don't well know this was just another bid for

33:24regulatory capture or an election season psi up meaning that you're basically giving democrats something to run on so here was sacks explaining this on the all in podcast this is a doomer sia up in the ultimate target is open source that's what it all comes down to because that is what an FDA I will ultimately ban they won't call it a ban they'll just say look we have to apply the same standards to open and close models what are those standards dario is already testified before the senate he says that models are dangerous if you can't centrally monitor and control them and roll them back that is technologically not feasible with an open model because once the weights are published to the public domain they're out there they can't be rolled back and so we're going to prevent those weights from being published or used or hosted that'll be the way that they deal with this and so look that ultimately is the target you on is doing something kind of clever here so you on is saying hey listen derios right he's right is there is right there should be some oversight peer review of AI by competitors is the right way to start this off so you say listen don't use mtr if you're so worried

34:26that that your systems are going to be suspicious we'll let you look at ours ours is open source you should let us look at yours make it open source which of course derios never going to do because it's a closed source model are you coming up we'll get to more on the dangers of each gigantic one world governance approach to AI first being an adult mostly means handling important things before they become emergencies like you know planning for the future so you maintain your house so that if god forbid there's like a giant rain storm it doesn't start just water pouring through your roof or something and you save money before you need it right these are just the decisions you make in a state plan it's part of that kind of responsibility without one your loved ones maybe left trying to determine your wishes during an already difficult time or relying on the state to make those decisions for you trust and will offers affordable attorney designed a state plans online you can create in as little as 30 minutes they're easy to use website guides you through creating a will or trust online you can document your wishes for guardianship asset distribution and healthcare planning with a plan that state specific and tailored your needs you can also add attorney support securely share access with trusted contacts and update everything as your life changes trust and will affordable estate plans priceless piece of mind head over to trust and will

35:30calm slash Shapiro get 20% off that's trust and will calm slash Shapiro to get 20% off trust and will calm slash Shapiro you know having all that prepared for means that you're just going to sleep better at night go check them out right now trust and will calm slash Shapiro get 20% off Peter the old who of course is heavily invested in this industry was on was brought with Ross do that back in June of 2025 for the New York Times talking about the idea of a one-world regulatory governance structure here is a bad idea but I always think that if we're going to have this frame of talking about existential risks perhaps we should also talk about the risk of another type of a bad singularity which I would describe as the one-world totalitarian state because I would say the political solution the default political solution people have for for all these existential risks is one-world governance you know what do you do about nuclear weapons

36:31we have united nations with real teeth that controls them and it's they're controlled by an international political order it's and and then something like this you know is is also you know what do we do about AI and we need global compute governance we need you know a one-world government to control all the computers log every single keystroke to make sure people don't program you know a dangerous AI okay so again the idea in my view of some sort of one-world deal with China is a mistake champ sankar over a balance here he says EA AI safetyism effective altruism right because again all these people are associated the Dario group very much associated with what's called effective altruism which was the Sam Bankman freed philosophy that basically you can do whatever you want so long as at the end of the day you give your money to charity so what sankar says he says EA AI safetyism increasingly looks like Marxism one

37:34is him for the algorithmic age the old vanguard claim privileged knowledge of the inevitable course of history the new one claims privileged knowledge of the probabilistic course of humanity both use an elaborate intellectual framework to reach the same political conclusion a small group of enlightened might people must constrain everyone else for their own good is never led to anything except monumental human suffering Microsoft CEO Saik in Nadella he says hey I'm fine with deliberate pacing but we can't just have a handful of people controlling the whole industry which is kind of what again the dooms want he says we need to accelerate and spread the benefits of AI such that they are diffused broadly across countries communities and companies this requires a frontier ecosystem in which both closed and open source models can thrive and for firms it's imperative they're taking full control over their unique and tacit knowledge every organization should be able to build its own continuous learning loop hill climbing machine that becoming dependent on anyone model provider and have the ability to embed its own knowledge into models and weights they control in this context he says we welcome the research focus and deliberate pacing needed to get alignment right as the design goal we also welcome ideas like embedded evaluators and the

38:38broader efforts to develop the mechanisms to make this more than just talk the key is this cannot be controlled by a handful of entities must have broad representation across the ecosystem countries and fields including academia now Alex Carp of Palantir he says listen all of this is wishful thinking because sure even if you wanted to slow all of this let's just remember our enemies are out there they don't care about slowing any of this and if they win everything that we're talking about here becomes completely secondary here's Alex Carp talking about the external threat of China if we didn't have the adversaries we'd have I would be very in favor of pausing this technology completely but we do and that's that's why pausing is just it you can't pause it because it's a structural advantage both for LLMs and algorithms so leaving you know what the the getting this getting algorithms and LLMs to work in a classified context is going to take very specialized very spout can explain how it works but getting the fact is this is going to be a bananza for the US

39:39economy okay again he is right about all this which is why President Trump not on the Doomer's side he's very much on these stagnation side of the argument that that's the risk he says you guys keep trying to do longer here but again it's us versus China and somebody's going to win and somebody's going to lose we're leading China in AI we're most sophisticated country in the world and frankly I want to keep it that way because whoever wins AI wins and we can put guardrails we can do this and that but I think you have a lot of negative forces and bring it up that shouldn't be bringing it up and they bring it up things that won't happen but whoever wins with AI wins and again he is right about all of that so you can kind of tell who's on which side by who supports the regulatory structure and who supports the pauses and all the rest of it now again there's a horses you right that is very focused on the idea that AI has to be stopped they're normal people again I understand the worries I do I get it they're normal people who are worried because they don't

40:40understand what the hell is going on because it's complex it's all tech at the bleeding edge is complex always there are a lot of people worried about AI I get the worries I do however when Bernie Sanders has a thing you should probably believe the opposite the left wing regulators cannot get enough of this they cannot Bernie is using all of this to claim that we actually have to just stop AI quote when you are racing toward a cliff you don't just ease up on the gas pedal you hit the brakes when the future of humanities at stake we need a pause on advanced AI development and a ban on artificial super intelligence and AI mine smarter than any human incapable of operating independently beyond our control at their upcoming AI summit Trump and G must negotiate a treaty to pause AI and ban super intelligence before it's too late so first of all I have no idea how he plans on banning super intelligence nobody is actually aiming at this point for you know full scale super intelligence of the sort that he's talking about because people understand that if you in fact had this the so-called singularity that they're inherent risks to that pretty much everybody I think in this industry sort of agrees on that you need a human at the tiller at the end of the day

41:43but Bernie of course is a person who does events with the Chinese government I do not think it is a surprise that you're starting to hear China talk openly about global regulation according to Bloomberg China's top intelligence official delivered one of Beijing's most detailed warnings yet about AI saying rapid advances in the technology could threaten political stability and critical infrastructure abusive use of AI by adversaries could threaten directly China's political security institutional security and ideological security is written by the state security minister Chen Yixing Chen warned the countries with an advantage in AI and vote national might invoke a national security to impose technology controls and monopolize industry standards and build closed source ecosystems now again the reason that he's saying that and the reason Bloomberg has that the reason that the communist party of China is doing that openly is because they want us to believe that we're on the same side as China while they cheat because this is what China does and naturally yet every left-wing politician is jumping on board this Barack Obama is coming out of the woodwork now to move AI oversight to the center of their agenda why this democratic now found a

42:44populist issue people are very uncomfortable with tech and because people are uncomfortable tech because they don't understand it because half the AI founders are now doom mongering in a enormous number of Americans justifiably are deeply worried about the development of AI I mean it's only the technology that is likely going to save the American economy but Obama's on the other side he warned during a recent private fundraising event that artificial intelligence technology could be dangerous if not properly managed as he implored democrats to aggressively develop political and governing agendas to prioritize the issue in the coming years in his remarks on Thursday Obama urged to keep Jeffries and the how to assemble a clear framework for a public conversation about AI policy should Democrats win back to house in the midterm elections according to a partial transcript provided by Obama's office he suggested candidates running for president in twenty twenty eight ought to make a i one of their central agendas and have a very clear plan for responding to safety and economic concerns around the technology okay so what is the right thing to do now again i have not seen beyond sort of a vague doom mongering

43:46from people who acclaim to have special knowledge any specific road map for how we all die because of AI i do see the political motivations in them saying that and whenever government gets involved at the top level to protect us from quote unquote a danger this usually ends with cartelization usually ends with corruption and usually ends with stagnation i'm not saying that there's no risk to i of course there's risk to a i i i'm not saying people can't miss use a but that can happen both inside and outside companies that's an argument as they say that proves too much again it was at a closed source company open a i at the hugging face scandal happen that was at a closed source company so it seems more like is a lot of the cynical point of you these closed source companies are looking for a legal liability shield they're looking at the same time for regulatory capture and they are looking for some sort of excuse for if things go wrong it's not their fault while they continue to develop the thing they don't understand is that if they continue to make the case that a i so highly highly dangerous that we're all going to die from

44:50if they keep making that case the natural inclination of the people of the populace on both right and left will be ban a i entirely push back against a i entirely if that happens we just lose and this is why you know political leadership matters an awful lot here i'm glad David sacks out they're talking about it i wish the president were more articulate on this i wish the more Republicans were articulate on this particular subject but it is not helpful when again the people who are leading the industry continue to beat the doom mongering drum presumably for the sake of cynical manipulation this is this is to me the problem the possibility of stagnation shall we say is so much higher than the possibility of we all die because someone forgets to unplug the machines that that i find it difficult to believe that it feels as though we're going to basically shoot our own economy directly in the leg because so many of these ai founders are eager for collusive violation of antitrust law and legal liability shield folks there are few things more

45:55irritating than being awakened by that tiny beam of sunlight that somehow finds the exact two inch gap in your blinds and then hit you directly in the face okay this is happening to me more times than i can count how does it hotel is all the time right just sleeping and then bam the light hits me directly in the face and i'm up and it's 6 a.m well you tell her this kind of stuff from months at your house because replacing window treatment sounds like a big project it doesn't have to be lines dot com lets you customize your window covering some line and they'll send samples to your house fast and free so you can actually see what works in the room if you're comfortable measuring and installing yourself awesome if you'd rather have somebody else deal with it you can add licensed and vetted professionals to measure and install or land somewhere in between if you have absolutely no idea what looks good which frankly describes most of the people who are of my sex well you can book a free consultation with one of their design experts no salesperson wandering around your house just actual help on your schedule replacing the blinds you've hated for three years shouldn't be a three year decision right now blinds dot com is giving our listeners an exclusive fifty bucks off when you spend five hundred dollars or more just use code Shapiro at checkout limited time offer rules and restrictions apply see blinds dot com for details we get to

46:59more on this in just one second first you know twenty years ago now a lot has happened in my life I was twenty two years old I was not yet married now just think back over the past 20 years wife five kids big business all that what 20 years of long time simply safe is now celebrating 20 years again most companies don't make it that long unless they're actually solving a real problem when you're picking a security system for your home what you're looking for is peace of mind the goal is not to obsess over your security the goal is to never have to think about it again and that's what I like about simply safe most home security systems are designed for after something goes wrong after the window breaks after someone gets inside after your phone buzzes simply saves approach is different it's designed to help stop breaking before it happens they're a powered outdoor cameras to text suspicious activity around your home alert live u.s. based agents those agents can actually speak through the camera to scare off trespassers and if necessary request nine one one dispatch prevention beats reaction simply safe has been protecting your world for 20 years celebrate their anniversary with us and save 60% on your new simply safe system at simply safe dot com slash Shapiro at 60% off at simply safe dot com slash Shapiro plus when you order

48:00writing our show name in the how did you hear about a survey to let them know we say there is no safe like simply safe already meanwhile over the weekend the broad scale conversation of which are new movie run hide fight infidel is very much apart about the state of Islam in the world continued bill mar did a pretty astonishing segment on real time on HBO in which you talked about democrats talking about nine eleven and the gaza war and not really understanding what the hell they're talking about fighting people who hate freedom of religion and hate homosexuals and hate the idea of women as equal and free humans how did liberals wind up on their side and many did one in five young americans now has a positive view of Osama bin Laden he's like Luigi mangeoni in a turbine you hear it in a lot of places now that the worst thing about nine eleven was innocent Muslims

49:00came under suspicion yeah where that did happen it's wrong but the worst thing about nine eleven was three thousand people got roasted at the office but the prevailing view of so many young people is that well come on where the worst country ever so if someone attacks us they can't be all bad that certainly wasn't the attitude twenty five years ago in fact i know a guy who show got cancelled just for saying the terrorists weren't cowards and that guy was right they weren't cowards but i'll tell you who is democratic party politicians and i'll tell you why because nowhere has this moral confusion become more obvious than in a place called gaza a little strip of land that was not part of the original israel but which they won in a war launched against them but then gave back gave back as a peace gesture did they tell you that part on tiktok kids again he is right about this

50:05bill mark has always been crystal clear about the threat of islam as a philosophy again i will say for the thousandth time for those in the back making the point that islam and its belief system are not conciliatory with that of the west does not mean all muslims are bad or that no muslim can be a good western citizen islam is a political philosophy everywhere it is applied everywhere is a philosophy that inhibits all of the things that make the west great islam inhibits freedom of religion inhibits freedom of speech inhibits free markets inhibits all sorts of things the the notion that if you criticize islam as a political philosophy or note that islam as sam huntington the author of clash of civilizations put it that islam has both bloody borders and bloody innards which is true geopolitically and if you note that that's islamophobia this is it's nonsense and it needs to be fought it especially needs to be fought because again it is part and parcel broader argument now being made in the west that as bill marco directly notes is america sucks so whoever attacks it is good

51:08which is trash one of the people making that point of course is a son piker who's out there saying at the only reason people care about nine eleven is because they are being forced to care about nine eleven i don't know some of us kind of care about it because we don't like when our fellow americans get murdered we're not huge on it actually but again that that sentence included the phrase our fellow americans i'm not sure that has on piker ought to be counted in that particular phrase from septic farland and family guy to uh... you know numerous other uh cultural moments people have talked about it people have talked about it in not so serious uh ways so this uh... this forceable reverence coming from institutions on its twenty fifth anniversary is uh... it's probably not going to take uh... take hold amongst the masses there are people still burning alive in these towers and people were already uh people were already uh making jokes forceable reverence of nine

52:10eleven that's the thing meanwhile i'll say it continues to not break off from us and he's going to pretend he doesn't know who a son piker is all the way until the election now he openly asked openly asked a son piker to campaign with him and now he just calls him a twitch streamer over and over and over that's not going to answer the question dude again the problem with Abdul al-Sahed is not a son piker the problem with Abdul al-Sahed is that he believes the same things Hassan Piker does and he treated it for years and he says it openly until of course he asked to reverse himself in order to try to win an election in a purple state like michigan here he was now trying to pretend that the Hassan Piker thing is not a thing i agree it isn't a thing he is the thing he is the problem not Hassan Piker predominantly their whole game is to make us fight culture war so that we don't pay attention to the fact that the president has made two point two billion dollars his family has made even more how about your family in michigan how about your ability to afford the basic things how about the ability to believe that you can see a doctor without having to potentially fall into medical debt those are the conversations that people are having those are the conversations i'm interested in having so yeah i'm not all that interested in having a

53:11conversation about a twitch streamer forgive me when people can't afford their gas and their groceries well that's a wild mistreat i mean some of us are kind of concerned on the twenty fifth anniversary of nine eleven about it can't it literally treated about nine eleven the bad things happen on nine eleven and then america did way worse to everybody else because of course america is a terrible horrible place and remember abdulla else i had is the same person who said he would not would not in any way praise the death of itola chameyney a mass murderer because too many people in dear born michigan mike like itola chameyney you know those people are i mean some of them are just on tape here's memory an amazing group that translates from arabic and from Persian and from a wide variety of other languages the radical statements of people abroad and here at home here's a dear born mosque where people are talking about annihilating the Jews in the christians all our lord they're waging jihad for your sake all of their waging jihad for your sake

54:13while all lord of mankind grant them victory while all lord of mankind grant them victory over the enemies while annihilate the Jews and the christians while annihilate the Jews and their helpers or they are no match for you while i count them kill them one by one and do not spare a single one of them all lord of mankind and that's in the united states that is in abdulla al sayah's base in dear born now there's some of the media who sort of refuse to understand this and then liken so-called christian nationalism to islam globally so here is cnn's abby philip trying to say well why why don't we talk about christian nationalism if we're talking about islam well i don't know maybe it's because there is no threat in the united states of christian nationalist taking over the federal government and then forcing people to convert to christianity and abide by christianity by law whereas all over the world in muslim majority countries literally everywhere literally everywhere islam imposed from the top down inhibits human freedom maybe it's that

55:20you know the the idea that christianity is tied to christian theocracy in the same way that islam is tied to sharia law in the modern ages is crazy that is a crazy likening it is not statistically verifiable it is not factually true there might be a small fraction of americans who want like a full-scale christian theocracy in america that is a minute faction but she's going to try to claim that that is somehow the same as islam globally which okay you know it's interesting to me that conservatives are um they're quick to associate uh maybe the worst aspects of a terrorist with muslims but then when you have you know christian nationalists um like that that pastor who uh to you Pete hegseth invited to the panagon who thinks that women shouldn't have the right to vote that they should be subservient to their to their husbands they should stay at home and have babies there's no outcry about that i i don't understand why he's oh first of all we'll point out that if the most

56:21radically can do in america is there's a christian pastor who is once invited by a student the panagon to speak and he says that women shouldn't have the right to vote as opposed to there are imams all over the united states and there are people at the head of governments all over planet earth who call for literally the murder of people who are not co-religionists those are not remotely the same thing i'll be on with uh cnn's abbey fill up tonight hopefully the topic will come up but again it just shows the unwillingness to come to grips with things first of all why the what about is him why the what about is him i mean this is true what about is him i tell what about is him is where you say that it's okay for your side because the other side does it but you know here's my question abbey philip could say i don't like the christian nationalism you know what i really don't like i really don't like islamic sharia law in position all over planet earth and the fact the fact that a plurality of american muslims are sympathetic to hamas i don't like that very much i think that's bad but she's using the lack of condemnation of christian nationalism to excuse

57:24the islamic radicalism which again i don't understand that at all that makes no sense to me and but i suppose we we may have that conversation and meanwhile on the immigration front dhs secretary mark when mullin told many johnson that there's an investigation into illhan omar investigation is predicated on the fairly evidentiary assertion or least allegation that illhan omar basically committed immigration fraud to get her brother into the country according to the daily mail back in 2020 illhan omar told friends years ago that the man who went on to become her second husband was in fact her brother for the first time one of those friends has come forward to reveal exactly how omar and ahmed elmi scandalized the small community in many opalas abdhakim asman is the first person to go on record and speak of how omar said she wanted to get her brother papers so he could stay in the united states at a time when she was still married to her first husband ahmed her seat no one knew there had been a wedding until the media

58:24turned up the marriage certificate years later because of a lack of paperwork and war torrent Somalia where they were both born positive proof of their relationship has never been uncovered the first report that omar and her husband were siblings appeared on the website Somalia spot in 2016 instead of elmi 34 as soon as um elhan omar married him he started university to her alma moderate north to kota state university where he graduated in 2012 shortly thereafter he moved to mini apelas where he was living in a public housing complex and was later evicted he then returned to the united kingdom anyone found guilty of committing marital fraud face up to five years in jell and find about two hundred fifty thousand dollars here's the secretary suggesting that this is a thing that happened it might be under investigation this is an ongoing investigation we we know this she married her her brother to try to bring him in the united states we know he lives now in one we feel that this may be there there's even made more be there may be more to this the whole family migration and positive some illegal activity for them to come to the united states begin with

59:28but all of us in a best it we're investigating okay so again that apparently is a live ongoing investigation time home in the borders are says there is in fact an investigation into elhan omar i'm not gonna come and on ongoing criminal investigation i know things are going on but i can't give specifics of what's happening but now we'll see i mean if someone committed immigration violation someone committed marriage fraud or anything like that regardless if there a congressman or not knowns above the law so i'll leave it at that we'll let the hsi whole military investigations continue the investigation okay so you're confirming that there is an investigation into congresswoman omar i'm confirming that i says yeah i'd like i said months ago that is something that's been reported and it's been looked at and turns out that i don't know mass migrating simolees into the united states might not have been the world's best idea because again unbedded immigration from countries that do not like your general world view

1:00:31is a bad idea folks there are few things more irritating than being awakened by that tiny beam of sunlight that somehow finds the exact two inch gap in your blinds and then hit you directly in the face okay this is happening to me more times than i can count how does it hotel is all the time right i'm just sleeping and then bam the light hits me directly in the face and i'm up and it's six a.m well you tolerate this kind of stuff for months at your house because we're placing window treatment sounds like a big project it doesn't have to be lines dot com lets you customize your window covering some line and they'll send samples to your house fast and free so you can actually see what works in the room if you're comfortable measuring and installing yourself awesome if you'd rather have somebody else deal with it you can add licensed embedded professionals to measure and install or land somewhere in between if you have absolutely no idea what looks good which frankly describes most of the people who are of my sex well you can book a free consultation with one of their design experts no salesperson wandering around your house just actual help on your schedule replacing the blinds you've hated for three years shouldn't be a three year decision right now blinds dot com is giving our listeners an exclusive fifty bucks off when you spend five hundred dollars or more just use code Shapiro a checkout limited time offer rules and

1:01:34restrictions apply see blinds dot com for details one person who is a sort of an expert on this from a personal point of view is Dan Burmally Burmally is convert from islam to christianity and he pointed out over the weekend that unfortunately the nine eleven memorial only has two signs about islam and al-Qaeda one is about al-Qaeda in the context of the broader muslim world he says when you visit the nine eleven museum in new york beneath the ground where the twin towers once stood you'll find a section called what have we learned the section is not about the ideology that drove 19 men to hijack planes is not about the religious world view that justified slaughtering thousands of civilians know that section is about new york cities mistakes in dealing with the dust and it's long term health facts on first responders and residents tucked away in a corner almost hidden you'll find a museum's weak defense of islam framing al-Qaeda and islamism is nothing more than a political option that the faction had happened to emerge in the mid-twentieth century is designed not to offend not to name the ideology that inspired the attacks america did not learn the real lessons of nine eleven the lesson they should have put front and center is if you ignore the ideology if

1:02:36you pretend islam is plainless you guarantee the same ideas will strike again instead the largest section is devoted to dust particles and respiratory illnesses that's why new yorkers got a g-hide loving mayor twenty four years after nine eleven joining us online to discuss all of this is dan burmally found of the ideological defense institute an author of islam israel and the west a former muslims analysis and thanks much for the time really appreciate it thank you for having me been it's an honor so to kind of establish your bonafide's in discussing islam and the west when you explain to folks your own background the fact that you were a muslim that you're now a christian how did that happen what are your experiences with islam so you grew up uh as a muslim and i converted christianity when i was eighteen nineteen years old and uh that is a long story but briefly after the Danish cartoonist who drew the profit of islam in 2006 i became very devout i decided to dedicate my life to defend islam to defend the profit and after one year i left islam

1:03:40because the moment you start reading about the history reading the Quran not only to worship but to understand then something happens you you realize that this religion is not from Allah not from god it is from Allah actually so dan when we discuss islam and the west now i've made the the point that there's a conversation that's dishonest that's going on there there's one conversation that's about islam as a force in the world as a currently governs as vast majority people across planet earth practice it and then there is the idea that in order to say that islam in the west are incompatible this means that you have to say that every single muslim who exists in the west is inherently a terrorist or terrorist sympathize or anything like that i've made the argument these are not the same thing that you can certainly be a person who you know has iftard dinner and not be a terrorist supporter but islam as a global force and as a governing force wherever it exists is an illiberal force that disagrees with the values of the west what do you make of that argument okay then so let me be clear here if you are serious about islam

1:04:44then you are a problem you cannot claim that you are serious about islam your faithful to islam without being anti west without hating Jews without hating Christians i'm not making this up it is the nature of the system itself first of all islam islam islam islam has a religion that is my argument islam has a religious component like probably 10% of the content of the faith or the system that is religious that is like praying and fasting but 90% of islam is political it is about how to live as a citizen done muslims how they live their value so forth and so on so when you conflate muslims and islam you are serving islam so we need to distinguish when we criticize communism you made this argument in your video from a couple days ago when you criticize

1:05:45communism then you are criticizing ideas a set of ideas when you criticize islam you are criticizing a set of ideas now what the faithful the serious muslims who wants really to take over the west take over the world they want you to conflate both muslims and islam so whenever you criticize islam you are criticizing muslims that's what they want so that they can call you islam a foe but I always say to moderate muslims let's let's agree moderate muslims okay they exist I always tell them stay out of the way I am against a system that calls for the subjugation of the entire world do you believe in that if you are offended then probably you believe in that so just stay out of the way if you don't want to kill Jews kill Christians subjugate everyone in the world then why are you offended when I criticize because they say well this is not islam this is okay you don't get

1:06:48to decide what islam is history 14 centuries of islamic conquest islamic violence decides what islam is scripture can is canonical scripture of islam decides what islam is now this is like a long argument I talk about that in my book but my message to everyone who's this any when you are criticizing a set of ideas don't let anyone call you islam a foe because you have the right to criticize a certain idea if it is a threat to you to your civilization just like it was a threat to my ancestors civilization it was erased we were islamized I was born muslim so yes so when we talk about that set of ideas and how it governs across the planet I've made the point repeatedly that there is not a single place on planet earth where islam has had a liberalizing effect it islam does not as a philosophy or as a governing system recognize separation of church and state it is not recognized freedom of speech it does not recognize freedom of religion it

1:07:52doesn't recognize any of those places where where it has power and so when you look to the west where muslims are a vast minority or the minority population and where they there there's no possibility of surreal law being imposed that's not the same thing you're talking about the practice of people in as minority in a system you're not talking about if that system were to predominate so what does islam look like where it does predominate where it does actually have control well this rebranding of islam which has been happening since october 7 and the argument that tucker khalson made last year when he said look at Dubai Dubai is what charihan made and baltimur is what liberal democracy made of course this is a false argument because Dubai is the importation of western values while keeping the shell the islamic shell any islamic country and i'm i'm not exaggerating here any islamic country that is successful it is because of the global

1:08:56system the global western system that was exported to the rest of the world if you only adhere to islam if you want to apply only islam i'll give you few successful examples somalia afghanistan iran so this is like the islamic countries that they they want to apply sharia law the reason for example south arabia permitted woman to drive is because they started walking away from islam from sharia so this this number one number two sharia is not like the christian cannon or jewish halakhah for many reasons jews they don't want to up to impose halakhah the rest of the world so when they compare halakhah to like bhamakhajab with pierce morgan last week is like it's the same argument against halakhah against sharia that's not true no jew wants to impose halakhah the rest of the world number one number two christian or cannon law and christian

1:10:03is about spirituality is about church relationship with its members it has absolutely nothing to do with the civil law sharia law contains everything how you pray but also if you are not of muslim living on an islamic land how to be dealt with that is like it's not not only civil laws not only religious laws and it's like about everything it has a foreign policy doctrine for example jihad so when muslim say we want to apply sharia law in the west they are saying explicitly we want to replace the constitution of the united states of america with what we believe to be the divine law because the u.s constitution is a man made law and we must replace it so dan you grew up as we've mentioned a muslim grew up in jordan what is the educational

1:11:06process like for a young muslim growing up in in jordan obviously ion hersyah lee has written what it was like growing up in kinnia as a young muslim being taught in essentially a muslim brotherhood school what are the kinds of things that kids are learning because i think that one of great things that the west has failed to understand is that if you are brought up in an entirely different system of thought you don't want the same things unless you sort of break out of that system of thought and so the west tends to project its own ideas about what people want in the world onto everybody this is why you see george w bush in 2005 making the argument that every human heart urns for freedom so we can just planted democracy in afghanistan and sharia law can be in the constitution but it'll just everyone in the end wants the same thing you grew up in jordan you are educated in a muslim system what exactly was it that you learned and what were the priorities in life well then today i read something someone i'm not going to name she made a comment on your upcoming movie and she said oh israel is trying to to tell us that muslims are problem

1:12:11so that we can allow them to kill all muslims they're trying to frighten us from islam even though this particular person her ancestors were massacred on the hand of muslims as shia go but let me tell you this when we talk about to answer your questions when when we talk about if islam is a real threat not only to the west the rest of humanity we're not making that out especially as formal muslims we're not paid Zionist we are not getting seven thousand dollars i didn't wake up this morning at seven a.m. to do this interview because you're paying me but because we are a sincere about saving worsen civilization when i was six years old seven years old and in my school textbook i learned that aburo bayda amir minjirah the companion of Muhammad during the battle of uhat beheaded his own father because he was an anfidel he was

1:13:14non-muslim and Allah praised him in the Qur'an saying that what you did is wonderful because you served Allah you served islam now imagine you're seven years old and you learn that non-muslims if they don't submit to islam they deserve to be killed i'm not saying that every Muslim in the world wants to behead all the non-muslims of course not the majority the absolute majority of muslims would never adhere to these teachings not because uh uh uh not not because they hate them i'm sorry not because they you know they're horheartedly they want to serve Allah but at the same time they see these teachings against human nature so what happens cognitive deciments they want to serve Allah but they cannot believe in this so anyway the majority of muslims would never do that however they cannot genuinely stand against those who do so when

1:14:18Hamas massacre Jews on october seven what happened is that there was a religious justification because what what Hamas did was jihad it was a virtue Muhammad promised muslims that at the end of times they will wipe Jews of the map they that Jews will run to hide behind the trees behind rocks and trees will call out to muslims all muslims all slave of Allah there is a Jew behind me come and kill him so when you when your mentality is shaped with this uh um not only an ideology but a divine ideology then there is a problem because even if you are not going to hold the knife yourself you will not be able to condemn those who do so that is that is the problem

1:15:19and i believe that to be fair i believe that the Jordanian government tried to modify the curriculum to change a little bit but you cannot believe and it's happening until now until this week you cannot believe the backlash against the Jordanian government for trying to change few things in the curriculum for example changing uh that Zionist enemy to the occupation that Israeli occupation that was people were not happy with it no we want you to call them that Zionist enemy not only that Israeli occupation so even uh something small as this was not accepted again the book is islam israel and the west the author is dan burmaoui you can go check out all of his work over on x you check out his book on amazon dan really appreciate the time the insight thank you Ben already folks you thought the show was over but there's much more coming up a Texas railroad commissioner i don't know that's a thing but it is apparently this person's a candidate

1:16:20for Texas railroad commissioner and said something kind of not great over the weekend about a university of Texas crowd if you're a daily wire member you get even more analysis more news coverage access to the mail back right now if you are not a member however you have to just do it what are you waiting for run ahead fight infidel's is being released in two days on Wednesday it's coming the countdown is on so now's an amazing time to come back to the only way i can be able to watch our blockbuster new movie with johnathan majors it's awesome it's part of the zeitgeist go check it out become a member use coach Shapiro check out for two months free on all our annual plans click that link in the description and join us every significant movement in history started with protesting how are you uncle talk this is our generation civil rights have no idea what the protest is about bingo given the current climate should have figured as polarizing as late sounders he will be a lot

1:17:22on pants okay hear me okay daughters is a close personal friend of chancellor freeman this is a decision i cannot fight islam will conquer the west some one equal are we paying attention they've taken over the building the downstairs and they blocked the doors i seek forgiveness from allavio mighty we cannot run and hide mohammed is the messenger of god there is no god but allah what do you say we turn those vessel beams into a fine red mist as we move one man will cover while the other guys go they call that leave brought you dry when listen you need a course in safe weapons handling true self-reliance begins with taking control of your help our sponsor armor colostrum harnesses nature's original blueprint for resilience our body stays constant pressure from toxins process

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