From AI to Personalisation: Lessons From IBC 2026

0:00Hello everyone, welcome back to the next episode of Street and Time Sports. My name is Kriston the community joined us always by our CEO Nick Meacham. Now Nick, how I'm going to start things is the type of thing probably most people just don't even think about, but because of where we work, I was very interested. So I was at a wedding in Florence. So in my Airbnb, there's a smart TV. I was having some issues. I forgot to pack a converter. So I couldn't like charge devices. So I couldn't, you know, log into the game, pass on my phone and all that because I didn't have any power. So I had to go to YouTube to watch NFL highlights. So what I found really interesting, Nick, is I go on YouTube and I sign as in the guest. So it's obviously got no data on me, no algorithm. And it was really interesting within about two video clicks, you know, watch highlights of the Bill's Lines game and then click one video for analysis. How quickly all of the sudden YouTube had basically perfected the algorithm for me

1:02because then it started picking up on some other things and like, like I said, Nick, I don't think anybody else thinks about these things, but like for us always talking about personalization, data, YouTube and all that, it was really remarkable, Nick, how quickly the YouTube algorithm could completely readjust itself from having no data to within like three video clicks just serving me what I wanted. They kind of good at that, aren't they? They're pretty good at what they do. I found it pretty similar with Twitter lately, I'm ex whatever, I don't know, do people still call it, whatever you call it? I feel a bit cliched at even saying what do they call it, but I found the same thing. I now, every time I go on, I look to the couple of things on fantasy football in the NFL and now all I get served is his act of content. So they're pretty quick at getting you into that final once they see that you've engaged in something that they know is like in your sweet spot or know that typically does gay or good engagement and you can't get away from it. And actually I realized looking at some of the YouTube stuff that I was looking at the disowned game pass and was accessing that and they have the five minute clip or they have

2:07five in highlights or they've got the 40 minutes, which is basically getting rid of all the breaks for those that I'm familiar with it. So that's how much of game time they're actually is in and if I'm at just about 40 minutes. But they don't have anything in the middle and they don't have the 15, 10 to 15 minute clip or so. I'm not one which gives you a little bit more of the plays that aren't necessarily a touch down or an interception or takeaway, but something a bit of the stuff that you still think will be interesting and but that is only on YouTube. And I felt like that's missing. I felt like if I was disowned and the NFL frankly, I want to have that also in the mix with all the other stuff they've got because I mean the other stuff they have on on platform is really cool. But I'm not going to sit there and watch the coaching film for every game, but watching a 15 minute highlights clip is right out my alley. What's interesting mentioning to zone in YouTube is that not only did it start serving me videos, but after the second video I clicked the ads I got served still in Italian was to sign up for NFL Game Pass by a disowned.

3:10So like it wasn't even just like the video algorithm. It was also like it very quickly started serving me ads to get NFL Game Pass in Italian. So yeah, like I said, it wasn't even just videos, even that the advertisements they've very quickly switched over. So yeah, it was pretty crazy. Well think about what would be like in the US because they obviously have the relationship with Sunday ticket in the NFL there. I would guess that you would very quickly get served a lot of Sunday ticket stuff pretty quickly and get it pretty much inundated with it pretty fast because of that strength of the relationship the YouTube has with the NFL. So think if you and live in the States, mate, still you be getting absolutely drowned in that type of thing. Absolutely. I think that also fits in nicely in the comments. Some of the stuff we're going to talk about today, which is we hosted our first Streamtime Sports Live in Amsterdam alongside IBC and just giving some of our takeaway from that and what we think that means for the future of the industry. For those that don't know, I'm sure every way, listen to the podcast is aware of IBC and the behemoth that it is as an event.

4:11You know, Nick, my understanding from your LinkedIn post, that's the first time you've been to IBC in seven years and despite me being at sports for seven years, that's the first time I've ever been at IBC and it was quite an overwhelming experience, even for someone that runs events at sports pro and I've been to other events. I mean, Nick, it was just it was it was on a completely different scale to I think anything I've ever seen from an event. Well, look, I think for those that are listening that may be working the sports space, it isn't that crazy if you're not familiar with IBC. It is a very much a broad cast technology trade show, but for people like us who sit sort of up the apex of that stuff quite often with the events we're running and the content we're talking about. And we're going to talk about a little later how much sport is being talked about these events. Normally talking about an event is in that exciting except when it's hours, of course, but in this instance, I think you can take a lot of signals about much more existentially what's happening across the sports broadcasting media and technology space by we're seeing how and what these companies are presenting.

5:11So it was really good to go back and see all that. Some of it a lot of it's changed a lot of it's exactly the same as it was several years ago, but it was a good eye opener just to see who was some of the new comers to the space. And like, you know, the big thing for me was seeing all the big tech companies, your Microsoft, your Google's, your Oracle's and AWS who was there actually back then really have major, they're not just booths like for those people that can't take you. They're not being to a trade show for 50,000 people or whatever the number is. It could be 30. I'm not sure, but it's tens of thousands. It's a whole different ballgame. They're building many buildings inside where they can have, you know, demonstrations and meetings and stuff going on. It's a whole different experience to anything that you've been to that sub, I don't know, 5,000 people. So it is a very interesting opener for that perspective to see these big tech companies, especially who want to be like the conduit for how the industry operates. They're really throwing a lot of money at it and prioritizing it very closely.

6:12Well, one of the things I found interesting, Nick, and I can't claim to know every single tech provider that's in sports. I feel like over seven years, you know, being able to work on things like the media awards, having our previous, like, ignition tech event that we did and even now it's portrait. I feel like I know a lot of the businesses, like I feel I'm pretty good. What I was really kind of taken by Nick was how many, and I felt like almost exclusively every single booth had some sort of image or still like the application of its technology in sports. I'm like, I'm pretty sure you don't work in sports, but it just came across me. It's clearly like, even if you don't work in sports, like someone like a Delta tray or a stats perform or a media kind, these people that we know about in the ecosystem, then even the non sports people, maybe they do work in sports and they can, I just don't know, everybody was advertising sports. Well, I think AI, AI image generation tools are getting a lot of work now in terms of creating the assets that they're using on their stands and that because it was really

7:12everywhere. Are we talking, I don't have many exhibitions, like thousands of exhibitors, I'm not sure the scale, but it's pretty much all those eight holes. But yeah, there were sports branding everywhere. It basically is the talk of the town. And if you look at what you were hearing across the sports streaming ecosystem, sports is the talk of the industry, particularly because of that drive to live audiences and what it does to drive advertising, to do it to it. And that links with hobby or this whole ecosystem in and around it. And everyone either wants to be part of that conversation or that opportunity. And all things there is an opportunity to be had by being connected with it in some way, shape of form. But there are a lot of companies I'd never heard of before who are saying, or at least even just pretending, I don't want to say pretending, but positioning themselves as being someone that can work in sports. And it was quite an open up because then when you try and dig a little quite often, they didn't have many runs on the board, let's say around that stuff. First is a lot of the others here.

8:14A lot of the others, like you talked about, there's a whole bunch of others that we might know that many people in the sports space wouldn't know. But are doing a lot of the behind the scenes stuff that are really powering their media tech space. That was quite interesting to see how far it's come. I took that as a positive because I think sometimes we do reality checks. We talked about your presentation. You gave it SportsProtlundin. And certainly things just still be conscious of in this space. But it does feel like it's a positive that an event like IBC, everyone feels like sports is a positive thing to associate yourself with. And we've talked about as well with the rise in advertisement and things like that. Sports is one of the few last appointment viewings. I think it's probably one of the things we've taken away from streaming as you lose that water cooler moment where people come in and talk about the latest episode of a show. Sports is one of the few last things that still, I think, represents appointment viewing in these days. And I don't know, Nick, that was at least my takeaway walk in a way. Even if I didn't recognize these people, it's probably not a bad sign for sports that

9:17even those that aren't involved in sports still think sports is valuable to advertise themselves as. Definitely, I think it's good for the sports industry to have this attention from for them. I get a bit nervous though. I do get a bit nervous about all these companies trying to position themselves in sports. And the challenges that come with that, both the challenges for them trying to come into the industry that is actually much smaller than many people kind of realize. And also the difficulty can be for a sports exec to try and navigate what do we need here to do? Yeah, what we want to do. Because I do feel like a lot of these companies that we were looking at, some of them bigger and who have been well established as well, I kind of trying to be a bit of everything to everyone and are losing some of that specialization that I used to think was one of the key aspects of the industry. If you want this type of expertise, you go to there's really two players, you go to one of them and go forward. Now, everyone seems to be trying to build out their sort of offering and proposition

10:17to maximize the value of each and every client probably because the sports industry in terms of scale is actually smaller than most people probably taking to account in terms of the number of potential clients you can win. So I think it comes with some risks attached to it, particular people are a little bit naive to it, but it should also come with a lot of opportunity for the right people who play at the right way. And I just do think though, because it's become so noisy for those that really invest in the messaging, the positioning, the brand strategy and the awareness, and I'm going to wrap credibility in there, you would sit yourselves up to be just sitting above the parapet when it comes to all these others offering or saying they're offering the same kind of thing because there is a lot out there. And I don't, I wouldn't call myself an expert on this stuff, but I feel like I know a lot of the language and different things to some assert level and I just got that you're all basically saying the same thing. And that, I mean, you have to ask about it, doesn't questions to get to what they actually

11:20do. And that's not a healthy way to run a business. I can tell you. Interesting. Scott Gutterman, formerly a PGA tour, what he used to say to me, Nick, was his challenge with some of these companies that, as you say, are these do everything is often someone like a PGA tour, they've got a lot of their infrastructure. The way he described it is like you're getting a suit for a wedding. He's like, I've already got the suit. I've got the shoes. I'm just looking for the perfect pocket square. He's like, I don't need the whole outfit. I just need that one complimentary piece. And he said, you know, he, you know, not to put words on his mouth, but the way I took it was when people come to him saying, Hey, I can build you this. He's like, that's not what I'm looking for. I've already got this, this, this, and this. I'm just looking for the tie. I'm just looking for the belt. You coming to me saying you'll build me this white label product actually isn't even what I want. Even if I appreciate the fact that you can do it. Now again, PJ tour so big, massive, they probably have the ability to do that where someone's smaller does want a one size fits all. But I heard him say that analogy one time. I thought it was really perfect.

12:21It doing everything's not always a plus. Well, that's the thing with someone like Scott. He knows what he wants. And therefore wants just the tie and that's, that's fine. But I do think you're right. I think everyone's gets a little bit too greedy. Again, trying to attach themselves to the bigger opportunity and others, but others are smarter and they do go right. We'll just give them the tie, but we hope they buy the suit office next year for the next the next next major event. So, but he's actually what he's working for next league or he is, I believe, yeah. Yeah. Good operator. But yeah, I think you need those types of people at those types of organizations who can see the wood for the trees and know exactly what they do need because otherwise it's a mind feel out there. So we mentioned it is stream prime sports live, you know, alongside IBC and, you know, obviously sports vendors there, but not necessarily I think a dedicated sports track, which is part of the purpose of us being out there hosting what we did. Nick, and we had speakers from broadcasters, you know, public broadcasters like the BBC and STV out in Sweden.

13:22We had the Bundesliga as your rights holder had platforms like Dine, but also, you know, I learned there's Dine and Dine media because they're also building some products as well. And our headline partners for the event Dolby being that sort of tech provider context for the content there. And I guess like, what were some of your key takeaways from the content that we ran at our event? And I guess the follow up to that question Nick and kind of put in the card in front of the horse, were you surprised at how synced up some of the messages were given the position that those companies all sit in? Yeah, I was definitely going to leave with that. I think what was quite shocking for us. So we gave them a bit of a brief and it was like we wanted to present for between 10 to 15 minutes. Basically, just trends are things that you're across and things what you think the industry needs to be focused on right now. And case studies of things that they have done in house and have implemented. And they were so aligned with the narrative around efficiency around production, moving to the cloud to be more effective.

14:25Personalisation was absolutely the main focus pretty much in all case studies that we heard from. And yeah, just they seem to be a very, a really nice consensus there, which gives me confidence when the industry is so aligned that there is now a path of travel that people are focused on, which means that you can block out some of the noise if you know kind of what you're doing. The designing the dying example is fascinating one we talked about a lot, but now that they've gone from building quite a prominent O2T platform as a stand load into a fully fledged now service product, a proposition that they are white selling on to different rights owners to manage their own content is a really cool journey to basically see how that stuff comes alive. Equally with SVT who I am did a presentation out there, offices or for their internal conference about six to seven months ago to hear some of the things they've done around are remote production around the the world cup was really fascinating. And it is a game changer for cost savings for the flexibility in production, which does

15:32make it so much more accessible for anyone to be able to manage live events at scale at a much more cost effective rate. I don't have to send people across the world and just remove some of the impracticalities of working cross major events, which can be quite cumbersome for those running it. And the BBC's example was super interesting. I think there's a bunch of data points that Aaron shared. Basically Aaron who was the the BBC representative, who basically talked about how BBC engages with audiences through a big event like that. And it was quite fascinating to see what things they were doing and how they were working. And I've probably got some data points I'm working share at some time. But I just like it was the much more like holistic view as which it should be as of how a major media publisher can define a measure engagement and an event like that. Not just how many people watched a live event, which is quite often what you hear the industry just go to. It's always a default. Well, what was the ratings for that match? That's fine, but it doesn't tell the full story.

16:33And that I think it was really refreshing. I'm trying to remember what was the term that Aaron used where he was talking about users that only came on like less than once every six months. Oh, we had a specific term for it. Yeah. Yeah, was it a rare it was like rare users or gosh, that's a good question. But that was a really it was something along those lines. Yeah, but anyways, the thought that I thought was interesting about the rare users was like, you know, users that only come on once every six months. And he talked about the increase number that came through in the world cup, which makes it on a sense big major event. They're the broadcaster for it. But even he recognized and almost remind me of the conversation we had with Cyprian Castanado Ligun as part of our new economics fandom mini series is the BBC predicted that they would have more of these rare users coming on to the platform for the world cup. Now the challenge becomes how do you keep them on there? Like yeah, we can post all these really great numbers that we had of people tuning into BBC. But that's kind of the expectation. Now how do we keep them as football fans coming back to the BBC?

17:37So then they started talking about, you know, what are we going to do for the Premier League and other football competitions to make sure that these rare users don't come back just being rare users again. And how do you take those moments? And I thought that was an interesting conversation on their part where they weren't thinking about what they were doing with the world cup just as the world cup. But how do we now keep people in our ecosystem once they've come in? Yeah, it was super interesting. It was just that they clearly had a different and more balanced lens on how to look at some of this stuff, which was really refreshing because I do think we often just focus on the wrong numbers across the industry. I think kind of the other stats that they he shared, which the one that stood out, there was something like 94% of UK audiences consume some sort of world cup content on BBC. 94% was a pretty big number. Now that's obviously through websites, through linear TV, through iPlayer, etc, etc. And there's a whole bunch of others. But yeah, really impressive. They had that much more holistic view. They had really thought about different formats and they were getting people to come back and I guess being ensuring that people understood the utility of BBC sport as a platform and

18:44not just as a destination to check out when England's playing. And they sound like they've really… They've got their eyes on the prize there a little bit. Absolutely. Circle back to what you're talking about with Dine and STV or SVT, sorry. Talking about the remote production, one of the things Andreus focused on, I think they spoke about SVT as well with their Olympic coverage and specifically when there's so many events to cover is having a two tiered approach to your broadcasting where the major events, yeah, you're going to want to have multiple different cameras, multiple different camera angles, professional commentators. But Andreus talks about we have some events where we just have automated cameras and there is no commentary. And then we have some events where we mix a little bit of both with AI commentary and basically being able to scale up. And it's the same thing with some of the Olympics coverage is not all events are the same but you want to cover every single event. And just the idea of having more efficient approaches to everything that was, as you say, something that came across in all the conversations and that you can't have the bells and whistles

19:47or everything. If you're the NFL, maybe sure, if you're really sure, but there's just a whole ecosystem that sits underneath that and being realistic about when you pick and choose the level of production that you're going to have for everything, what you do in person, what you do in the cloud. Andreus has obviously been using the cloud or glass to glass example since his time at honestly, a digital, but they did talk quite a bit about the, that's sort of the prioritization and the levels with which you go by your production. Yeah, definitely. I think I'm looking at, you know, even one of the things he presented, I just sort of brought, had a quick squizz at it now. And he was just, they basically had all modeled it all out. So because I think when I've heard people talk about that stuff, sometimes I feel like it gets a bit lost is to like, yeah, it sounds a bit how long's a piece of string kind of thing and they fall can get lost in like, it is up to interpretation. But they had five different tiers, which is, you know, completely automated, then smart, which was wonderful, then wonderful cameras, then next gen four to six, then remote four

20:48to eight and then premium eight to 24. And they would just dial it up or dial it down, depending on what they thought was required for any, any given event. So it's just having a simplified sort of playbook on how to approach these things and they've been particularly good at doing it for indoor events. You know, they have what I think is a basketball, a handball and a table tennis and a couple of others. A basketball tennis, a basketball, maybe volleyball, because I should know that by now. But a couple of different sports. I have volleyball, table tennis, field hockey, basketball and a handball. I think I said basketball three times there. So you can keep up with me there. So yeah, no, I just think that's a really simplified, nice approach to look at, I mean, I've dialed up and dialed down and having a playbook to just pull to rather than, I'm sure we had a camera here or should we invest a little bit more on the ground there. They just, they've typical gems. It's got to all sort it out. Yeah, they're very good. One of the things we talked about was personalization, again, that was something that came up in every

21:48single conversation. Again, to your point, very interesting that no one else knew what the others were speaking about, but we got some similar themes. When it comes to personalization with sports, what does that actually look like though? I mean, I think it's one of those things was a little bit like I remember a couple years ago, everybody was talking about Web 3. Now everyone's talking about personalization, but practically, what does that actually mean for a sports fan to have personalization? What does that look like? I know there are a couple of examples that were thrown around, but just more broadly speaking. How dare you, Yergenbuster, compare Web 3 with personalization. Oh my gosh. I mean, look, it was really good actually because we had Dolby who were with the presenting partner for the event who really specialized in this space. Yergenb, a really interesting presentation to sort of give a bit of a sense on how practically these types of organizations can. And I think whereas we heard from the broadcast, there's a little bit more aspirationally what they are focused on. They are all focused on how to improve it. And I think personalization is not at a point where everyone is like, oh, we've done it now.

22:48What's next? They are kind of like these are the layers we are looking to improve. I'm trying to work out a way to answer this succinctly. I guess there's different layers of personalization, right? But personalization is the experience when you get on platform. So what you are served when you arrive on that platform, personalization around what you are served mid experience, whether if you're watching a live match, do you get served certain things along the way? I think one of the things that Dolby talked about was they can predict when someone's likely to go so you can then serve them things to keep them engaged before they get to the point of exiting. And there's obviously the actual content itself, you know, depending on different countries and regions, we had the Bundesliga talking about some of that as well. And how do you like the example? Yeah, yeah, love that sort of example of how they can use data to bring that all sort of thing to life. But the ability of personalized content, I think a lot of people will be surprised at how much it's still a work in progress to truly create localized, therefore, so call that

23:49personalized content across multiple markets, even for someone like the Bundesliga, who's one of the most innovative in this space, but they're making good headway. And the other bit is advertising, personalizing on advertising, you know, you talk about the algorithm serving as content. It's basically the same sort of thing in platform. How do you create ads and content that people are more likely to engage with because it suits their interests and needs? And though all those facets together, what they add up to is generally creating a better user experience for everyone. Obviously you're getting a more personalized view of what you want to have. And commercially, if you're serving more personalized content that's more aligned with my interest, then, you know, if you're serving, serving me content for like a woman's clothing brand, it's probably not going to hit very well, whereas if you're serving me something around my boring life of around sports and football or whatever, then you're probably more likely to get engagement from me. And that means they can drive a bit of CPM and a bit of return investment for advertisers alike and drive more financials out of that site.

24:49So it all has this kind of beautiful cycle or, yeah, cycle of, by cycle of life, basically to that, you know, the more engagement that should be able to lead to more return and investment, more engagement, more retention, et cetera, et cetera. Now, it's great in theory. It's clearly from everything we have seen, it's not as easy in practice, but it's getting better and it is a priority for pretty much everyone from every corner of the industry. And that's where I think it's quite an interesting space to follow, even though it doesn't sound as exciting that I think some other topics, I think it's actually huge if it does get to where the aspiration is. Maybe a bit like we're three, I suppose. Maybe, maybe. And like, so we've seen some cool stuff before. Is it ever the company based in New York to do stuff at Yes Network? Go check about it. They've won many awards at the Sports for Media Awards, some of the stuff that you can do in terms of live stats. And I think that's kind of the interactivity personalization I would love to see Nick where if I'm watching a sporting event being able to pull the stats up, I want in real

25:51time. To your point, there's, I use the Lego example, those that they might have seen some other things. The Bundesliga was talking about, I think there's something like 44 data points on a player every second and they're collecting all those in real time. And basically for kids, they could recreate the game, but all the players were Lego characters. And I forget how quick Dominic said they could turn that around, but it was like, I thought, yeah, I thought it was seconds. I was expecting to say, oh, a week or a day. Yeah. And it was like, no, instant lay-up. Hang on. And I love, I mean, if anyone wants to see an example of that, I'm sure we could get, we could get a copy of that sent to you, but it was literally, I'm sure he said seconds because I was blown away. Yeah. I was blown away by two. It basically just turns all the players into Lego figures. The idea being might be more attractive for a five, six year old, because those are ultimately the future fans that you got to be able to engage with. But again, to your point, the personalization thing, one of the things I found really interesting and I think he might have only posted it this morning was our good friend Magnus Spenson. He's always got great perspective on these things.

26:52And he had a LinkedIn post. And I might butcher word for word, but I hopefully get the meaning of it correctly, which is basically that he thought I BC was slow to the draw a little bit in the sense of everyone keeps trying to find faster and faster horses. But the reality is the cars already been invented. So you need to kind of move your mode of transportation. And basically, I think on or Magnus, not putting words in his mouth was a bit like, there's a lot of stuff happening in the back end with a production that's taking place that we keep trying to optimize, but it might already kind of be a thing of the past. And I thought it was a bit of an interesting comparison for Magnus to make kind of maybe some people denying some of the stuff that's taking place or holding on to some legacy technology. But I thought it was a really interesting way to frame that message. And like I said, go find him on LinkedIn Magnus Spenson spelled just the way you'd imagine a good Scandinavian name would be. But he's also a friend of the part, friend of ours. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

27:52I wrote, I think, a post comment just saying I love the analogy because I think it's very apt for where we are as an industry. If you think all the different directions we've taken as an industry over the years, what we largely are coming back to is actually businesses usual in terms of the product and proposition that we see on screen. And all that really is about refining the exact same product and those that are looking for different things outside of outside of the norm, typically just come back to the norm and see how they can just improve and find such a ways to optimize what they're already doing, rather than something something, finding something that is completely outside of the square, particularly around live sports, but also other content. So yeah, I think he has well summarized in his article there, and obviously everyone is focusing on anything that is not cloud based, they're pushing to cloud based. And hence my point before about the big tech companies, they all want to be some version of the arms and legs or the facilitator, the cloud platform, more literally, the people

28:53used to do and facilitate that. I mean, people that maybe not be aware, but like these big tech companies, they have a whole array of partnerships where in some instances they will work with a service provider to really help, I guess, educate and create buy-in in moving to a cloud product on the behalf of a vendor, because the knock on effect is that those big tech platforms will benefit from that. AWS offer actively funding and support to build new products and technology for those that are interested in it. And so if you are looking at it, maybe worth to be thinking to them, because they want you to spend lots of money using their platform in the future. But they see it as a win-win, they just try to be in an able, that they get a benefit from that and you get a benefit. So it's a whole new world out there, but the big tech companies seem to be ones trying to drive pretty much everything right now. Yeah. And then the last thing that sort of, for me, rap on, you come up with a big level question Nick is sort of having left IBC, having had our event there, and you touched on a little

29:54bit earlier with some of the companies coming in. Does it make you feel more optimistic or perhaps more cautious, where sports media is heading? And one of the things I actually raised to you is while we were out at IBC, I mentioned I saw I think it was a channel four was laying off several hundred employees and we've seen other sports media organizations, you know, the ESPNs of the world laying off, lots of employees like, there's certainly an element of this. It feel like it's moving very forward. I don't know how much cloud and AI maybe removes other things and there's still always a bit of uncertainty, but just leaving IBC, having not been there for a while, and I know it's not a sports specific event, but it's so complimentary to what we do. Feeling better or worse sort of where you think the industry's headed, and it could also take into account other things as it exists outside IBC. Yeah, it's a good question. I'm trying to, I haven't really thought about it. I would say, I feel like we're more of a mature state at the moment. Like, you know, when there's been lots of new exciting things come to the table, whether it's Web 3 or crypto or whatever else that comes to the industry and gets people either

30:59excited or nervous or trying to work it out, I don't think that's really here there right now. I think what we're at is we're at mature state where it's everyone's kind of heading in the right direction. And they're looking for things to keep improving and just optimizing incrementally to what they know that direction of travel. There's a lot of pressure still across the board of cost savings. And so I think the thing, your point really around lots of layoffs, that's still going to keep happening. I still think you are going to see some pretty major changes at the business level and people will be affected at the bottom level. Yeah, because if there isn't a lot of a lot of growth in the market, that's normally where a lot of these types of companies start to wind back investments in people and technology and other things because the scale of the market is limiting that growth, that growth path. So I'm a bit nervous from that perspective. I didn't feel like a walkaway guy, oh, there's a next big opportunity coming. Like OTT was, you know, 10 years ago. I just think that's a little bit, I'm not sure. I feel confident that the industry knows what direction of travel.

32:00I feel less confident that there's like huge growth levers for all these new players trying to position themselves as sports, sports businesses in a place that's been doing this for quite a while and already kind of has its direction of travel already mapped out. I think that's a fair assessment, Nick. But we've got several things coming up here in the next couple of months, you know, our SportsPronaii Tech event, which will be the week after this podcast comes in. If you're in the UK, certainly with going to, it's not exclusively broadcast in media, but there's still heavy focus on that area. And then we've got the SportsPron Media Summit, you know, our big flagship event in Madrid. I believe that's December 2nd and 3rds, who take into account for Thanksgiving. So these were all things that we're going to continue to cover and talk about. And, you know, IBC's far more a tech focused event, but it inevitably has an impact on everything that also happens across the media space. So I think we'll continue to ask questions, Nick. We'll continue to search for answers, but I agree. It does feel like there's a bit more, I don't want to say comfort, but they're, there certainly seems, I think the way you describe them, sure,

33:03these are good way to describe it. Look at, yeah, I think the companies that are established and know the landscape well have really got a bigger opportunity against those that don't and are sort of trying to find find their way. So I think, you know, with those people at a stream time sports members and those people that are in the endemic to the industry, I think really have got to leg up against the competition here. So I think you might see some of these new people come and go, but they will create pressure on the endemic as a result of that, which will make things a little tricky. But lots to still talk about, lots of different things being tried and tested and still happening. And it isn't like that the industry is not exciting. I think quite, quite, quite opposite. There's a lot going on. It's just around this particular aspect around the technology side. It doesn't seem as transformative as some people might be thinking, but that might be, might be a good thing for the long term of it. So yeah, big thank you all to all our members and guests who came to the event. If you listen to this part, thank you so much for all those people that we got to chance to meet in person. That was a really nice experience. It had so many great people there, but also platforms and rights owners also there,

34:07which is always nice to be able to see if we can help them get a bit of sense of what's going on and make sure you book in your plans to Madrid if you're not already. And if you're going to be in Luzanne in a couple of weeks, I'll be there. That's to announce presenting a keynote at that event. So if you're going to be there and you're in the International Federation Space, then also give me a shout out. We'd love to connect on the ground. Absolutely. Well, thank you once again, everybody for joining us for the Substance Stream Times Sports. And we'll catch you on the next episode.