Guillermo del Toro

0:00Welcome welcome welcome to armchair expert. I'm Dan Shepherd and I'm joined by Monica Padman. Hello. This is guys This is really up there Monica. She declared favorite of all time. I believe it to be favorite episode of all time Yeah, and and and he's in you know definitely a three-way time for me I mean he this is the most incredible human. We've got to sit with it's crazy. Yermodel Toro Guillermo Dottoro is an award-winning filmmaker that's an understatement. He's one of bazillion Academy Awards and every other kind of award Frankenstein movie the year last year shape of water pans labyrinth We are here to talk about pans labyrinth and this is so Awesome. He has completely redone the whole movie with all these different technologies that now exist and we will all be able to see it now in 3d among many different formats Incredible cannot wait to see in 3d. This is among the most special human beings on planet earth. Please enjoy Guillermo Dottoro We get support from quince. I have to say I am so ready for fall. I want sweaters

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3:08Oh Hi You're welcome that you're right there I offer you a water liquid that's I just took the last item. It is I just took the last open Go with you know there's a shortage or maybe you don't I am Painfully aware you are do you love to bichico? No, but it's news in the Mexican. Oh, right. Yeah, that's true Well, it's good to just increase the value now that's worth a lot of money Could sell it on eBay. I'm always curious about what books are those well some of them are Past guest books, but some of them are just decorative some of them are your by foot or by color. Yeah, exactly I'm gonna start by saying I've been wanting to meet you for 20 years because I worked with

4:13Perhaps one of my favorite people I've ever worked with was Guillermo Navarro. Yes, of course. Are you guys still friendly? Of course. What a great guy. Oh, what a beautiful man. Beautiful man. Beautiful. Everything. I mean, he's so full of talent and fire And he doesn't put up with anything. Sure He's a DP. Oh, a DP on Devil's Backbone. I'm pan-sliding if you want the Oscar for pants. Wow Was the first Mexican cinematographer to win in the history of oh really? Yeah over film. I don't know. Yeah There has to have been some sense right checko was originally a city camera operator and then he became a DP But Rodrigo Prieto Chibo Chibo. That's what I mean. Yeah. Yes. No, he's a great guy What's your theory on this huge explosion of talent that came out of Mexico? I remember when I was working with Guillermo Navarro he was telling me like oh, he's from Guadalajara, right? No, he's from Mexico. I'm from Guadalajara. Oh now we look alike The other day I saw a photograph and I said boy Navarro looks really haggard. I realized it was me

5:16People might accidentally say the same name Same look as they see people might accidentally hire him to direct something Navarro Who do you think would do better at each other's job? Two things I forgot everything about cinematography Which I used to do on my super-ates and even on other 16 and all that and algebra I was a whisk kid for a year. Yes, and now I don't know even what it means. You have two daughters. Yeah Did you have to help them with math and go wait hold on? I'm supposed to be good at this now because I think a generation Those less and less of those operational things. Yeah, you know like math when I was a kid It was a huge breakthrough when they allowed your calculator in the classroom Oh sure for like trigonometry or something. They said oh, that's cheating I remember I had a Texas instrument It's big boy, too, right? Yeah, the bigger the better He was a huge debate. There was no internet or it would have been a huge point

6:17Well, my kids are in sixth and eighth grade and so now of course the big debate is when and where can they use AI It'd be kind of insane to think they shouldn't become adept at using it because it'll be a tool They will use but it's like yeah, yeah, when and where well I think the debate for me is not what happens to the technology of what what happens to the human brain While using it right well, for example I'll give you one thing we all live GPS you live in LA for 20 30 years Whatever and if you start relying on GPS to go home That's me you should stop. Yeah, I can't get anywhere I can't get to his house and I live right down there Without it. I need it the other day when in the opening of the Lucas museum George very pointedly said I want the name of the work the medium of the work the author and the year That's it is because now we walk with context on our pocket you want to know more I don't have to tell you if it's a good piece of art or a bad piece of art Are you a judge it and you want context pull out your phone?

7:20I mean, that's good for me. Can we foster thought not results thought Yes, I think we underestimate the joy There was to be had when you were trying to figure something out well, you know like I brought my notes for pants lyrans It because I think the process is What's worth it? Not the result if we understand that we understand that the shortcut is not giving you something is rubbing you Yeah, right. I'm talking purely as what makes us human anytime you skip the process you are not cheating on someone You're cheating on yourself. You really are rubbing yourself of it You know the difference between winning the lottery and having created a way to you. I know I'm planting at six Million dollars Hold on. Well, you're mark that. I do want to tell you I did reach out to Josh Brolin To ask him about you And do you know what he told me said his favorite thing about you is having gotten to look at your journals that one of those

8:21Yes, so I feel very excited because he was just telling me how spectacular they are this is a relic That's a reward page in case I lose it. Oh my god. I have to hold this How much time is in these two pages? Well, you're the same not not much maybe three four hours, but they can happen three weeks or four months apart. Oh I only write when there's something worth to consigning and after the hobbit I Stop carrying them because I couldn't lose notes on the hobbit. Oh my gosh. I'm holding this. I feel yeah You know, I'm embarrassed to tell you how much I would pay to own this I feel like we shouldn't be holding I thought it would be nice to bring it. Oh, it's beautiful. Oh my gosh Monica. I want you to feel the pages too Yes, of course. Yeah, well years before pirates. I'm a thing. I cannot believe this

9:21I was a note for mountains of madness This was gonna be a question at the very end, but I need to ask it now. Are you friendly at all with Tim Burton? No, we're never mad you've never met we've never met. I mean, I know his influences He comes from Edward Gory Charles Adams This I mean I can trace his roots. I can't believe you've never met him No, actually, I think that is very risky to meet someone that you have X in common. I've had that like people that you have 90% in common 70% in common where you disagree you're gonna hate each other Sure, sure, sure, well you disagree. You're gonna go no, there's no conciliation We had an expert on the other day you would know this because you love fantasy But did you know see us Lewis and Tolkien hated each other? Yeah, well for a period at can't wait like each other There were two close one was an atheist one was a Christian and a Christian that took great pains to get there I may add I mean bent over backwards. Yeah, he have to convince himself. Yeah, can tortate himself

10:22Yeah, so you know is like when you took years to convince yourself of something. Yeah, you don't give it up that easily Yeah, yeah, well, it's now part of your identity and it feels threatening to your identity. You will explode. Yeah But to find out that they also hated and loved opposite poets And then I think it was see as Lewis hosted a Norse mythology reading session Oh my god, yes, and then Tolkien attended and then they found love and they both encouraged each other to pursue that I was gonna say later they did coalesce into one and look the high bound nature of academia is brutal is caddy. Yeah, yeah, right here actors comedians magicians Yeah, yeah, and scholars All very caddy Like I'm friends with a lot of magicians. There's not a single magician that has ever spoken highly of another magician Comedians, well, if they die they can they can like Houdini Oh

11:23Not a threat. They don't have a show opening. They don't have to share any attention with them. Yeah, but academia is very caddy But you know, I'll say an exception to that which is stand-up sure right stand-up comedians are brutal I did stand up for a while, but sketch comedians. That's where I'm from that's different. We do love each other because a lot of it is writing It's writing. It's relying on one another. It's eating shit together. It's succeeding together. The writer's room together It starts communal. It is And I think that you find in academia for example, I love reading the book of Shreining. I disagree with 90% of his opinions About other writers You don't have to agree with that because is what you did with what you were Given as a legacy like Burton. I can see the gory the Edward gory in him or the Charles Adams in him right But what he did with that or the dr. Zeus or the way he transmogrifies them. Yes, it's interesting But it would be very different than the way you metabolize and it becomes part of your being. I just know this

12:23particular part of your workflow is also very similar to his right he's just endlessly drawing and writing even while engaging with people It became less so for me the most copious notes I took is before I could make movies The more you have a team the more you say well guy Davis Draws a hundred times better than I do or Francisco Reese or you learn to rely on the people that you work with right every movie has a book like this It started with whole books for each movie and then it went into 50 pages for each movie and then three pages for each because the more you have a team right Yeah, I mean like I do a thing called the submarine Which is six to nine months before the movie starts I hired three or four almost always the same designers and we go deep before we hire production design before we hire a custom design We dive deep into the shapes the colors that is and that and then I draw a list really quick What is the end product of that session is it storyboard? Yeah, no is mostly the main concept the main tenants of the movie like

13:27Shapes for example rules the rules and then you hire people and if they want to break them you say why Yes, I thought about it not that you don't foster descent you do yeah, but you say you got a really Commitment yeah, because we thought this through I think that like when I go to a set and I see something is not Don't properly I say you thought I wouldn't notice Yeah, you know and like when I was 30 No less when I was 28 or 27 Jim Cameron we became friends instantly. I don't know why he said why don't you come over? We're anything true lies and I need to take out 25 minutes was the inroad to this relationship Were you doing the special effects stuff you had worked in some capacity for him? No no no wrong problem Who was in chronos had done a Stevie series called Beauty and the Beast with Linda Hamilton? So he said why don't you come to the barbecue on the 4th of July? I went and Jim was there. Yes, and Jim sat down. I said so I hear you made Really expensive mexico movie said well, I'm ordered my house

14:31You know you may lose it Says we only hear the stories of the people that donate a kidney and succeed But there are a lot of people that donate a kidney and the movie doesn't open I go that's absolutely true He says would you show it to me? I said sure and he arrived to the screening at the Chaplin theater on Rolly's studios And he said if I get a phone call I may need to leave I said sure I understand and then he saw the whole movie and he said The funkel was bullshit The movie wasn't bad. I would send this Oh my god like it's a bad date or something He said I can stay for 20 minutes on the beginning and then we stayed for four hours And we liked each other very much but he came from a special effects I could do all special effects. I knew rotoscope tracking. So we started geeking out. Yes. Okay. I was gonna say I had the Rare experience to go on a motorcycle ride I didn't know who's gonna be at breakfast and I get I know that yeah with Arnold And then he's there what year 2004? Oh, yes, and who's the great puppeteer the oh someone some stand Winston is there

15:37He was a writer incredible and so he naturally has zero interest in the 30 year old that's there but He starts talking about the 3d technology. He's inventing and I happen to say oh so it's like bilateral stereoscopic vision And he then goes he's like He comes in and he goes why do you know about bilateral stereoscopic vision and I go all as an anthropology major and then I got all of his attention among all these people. He's not just pretty Yes, so I imagine for you that was the same thing I think if he figures out somebody knows about his Neat kinks. He's just very drawn to you. I'd imagine he said to me one day there are X number of filmmakers Then there are X number of writer directors. That's less there are even less producer writer directors and he said then there are Even less designer producer writer director say said and then world builders

16:37He says you can count him with one hand and when you encounter somebody you can talk about The whole thing how much is gonna cost why is it gonna cost how do we make it better bigger and cheaper and that global view He said you immediately are interested because he's a very nurturing and rare I think because we have that commonality on effects Because I can sculpt the puppet I can mechanize a puppet. I can mold a puppet So I know molding chemistry. You know all these things you like it. I know So let's go and order a little bit and you already started it first of all you're from Guadalajara Yes, and mom and dad are Spanish and I'm curious first Mexican When did the family come from Spain like what generation are you I have zero interest in my genealogy I know my grandfather was a Irish it was Guillermo Gomez O'Colegan Out of a Darby O'Gillia that'd be a bad restaurant Yeah, he called I

17:40I know the kinship with the Irish because when I went to Ireland I said why do I feel straight at home? Immediately, but the side of my father Split into Puerto Rico and Mexico that much. I know now my father had a very precarious upbringing They didn't have money his father was a gambler which my dad was a gambler But he sort of controlled himself sort of so how does he witness lottery? He married my mom we were living in a little middle-class home He always bought from the same he won two times no Yeah, he won the six million and then he won a quarter of a million a few years later My god, yeah, with the same stop playing the same bender really yes. Oh my gosh So one day I were living there and one day we move into a house. I was just out of the shining I would run my bicycle The shiny but he always raised us. I remember the mortal lines. He said to my brother He says why do I have to do this if we have money and my dad said I have money. Yeah Yeah, and he would say you won that microphone for your camera. You're gonna go to the

18:44dealership and wash all the cars then you go to the spare parts warehouse and you have to clean all the boxes and then I'll buy you your microphone for your subrate camera Well, so that was my other curiosity about your father because I'm from Detroit and my whole family It was automotive industry. I too worked for jam for years It says he was an automotive entrepreneur. What does that mean? First he dealt with Packards then he dealt with Chrysler and then Nissan and Chrysler. Did he have a dealership? Many dealerships many dealerships in the 60s and 70s and all that he was Really the worst boss I've ever had I worked with him five years and I said that I'm quitting because I don't want to stop loving you I never did anything right I had always had to chase him for every penny So it sounds like he took the money he won and he was successful at growing that through his business. Oh yeah No, no, he was very smart. He was very funny. Yeah, huh. He was very personable He was a little remote at home. This is my father too. So I only saw him every other weekend But he was a car salesman and when I moved through the world with him It's like he knew everyone at the hardware store and he knew all the waiters and waiters this and it was like 100 percent

19:46I just wasn't kind of enamored with it also my dad was a motorcycle racing champion No, I used to ride motorcycles instead of a bicycle. He was by his mini bike. Yeah, yeah I was on a bike at age six or seven. I was riding my bike on the street. You had the childhood. I wanted I still Of course you have to break some stuff Of course parenting in the sixties would be actionable now Sure, he would take me on his BMW bike and he would go for ice cream. I was in the back. No helmets Of course, of course, you said you want an iron horse? I go sure and he would do it With me and the back Seven yeah, yeah, wait, so how old were you when he won the lottery? 69 so I was five and do you remember like the day your dad comes home and is like guess what? Yeah, the night before we went to the church party So I remember that I won a fire truck a plastic fire truck and people's a lucky family

20:49Everybody said some congratulations on the raffle. I said, yeah, we got a red truck I thought that was the town we saw I thought everybody loves my red truck everybody wants my red truck No, but my dad gave me the discipline. He said you have to work for everything you need and he said it's for your own good We inherited each other's clothes. How many siblings one brother older than me who passed away a younger brother and a younger sister Okay, so you're a middle you're the middle one on the second, which is how I do this stereotype as a middle child Yes, you had to become the Negotiator the peace keeper the sane one supposedly and then also would you agree as the middle child you can really disappear a lot Because in my case there was like a teenager who was crazy and then there was a baby on the scene So it was like between the energy they took up. I could be in my room for days and no one would have wondered I tell you the parenting thing I could disappear for a week And they would not ask where I was

21:50Not even curious if I had enough guys on the tank. I would go to San Antonio to Texas to buy a super eight equipment I would come back four days later. No one was there. No one asked anything. Oh wow Oh, I knew there was cold meat and cold beans on the fridge That was that who made them I had no idea You also described that you know when you're like a seven-year-old boy most kids are outside playing football and you're like Reading voraciously. Oh my god. Yes, and then you're also a hypochondria a complete hypochondria Yeah, where do we think that started started when my dad won the lottery he bought a library Because somebody told him you have to have a library because you're a gentleman now So he got a huge desk In the house He bought three encyclopedias He bought an encyclopedia of art which I read complete And I was very young he bought an encyclopedia for you and one of them was the encyclopedia of health

22:52Oh, I'm a memorize and I thought oh, I have tricky notes. I have high blood pressure You thought you had pancreatic cancer One point I can talk to you that is in my movies Old biology, oldies and that that has been with me since I was a kid and did you shake it at some point? Yeah, yeah, my dad was a hypochondria His hobby was to be sick actually I became fully fluent English as my second language But at age seven or eight he would make me travel with him to translate to doctors in Houston Oh really? I have a lot calma tell him that this one my symptoms and I would speak to the doctor in English And he said what did he say? Do you think because of the Catholic guilt? There was some sense that well with this great fortune we were given there must be some price to pay and it'll be my health I don't know how complex my dad was but did you have any sense like that like something bad will happen to us because this is Suspiciously good. I have I have Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, my parents won the money One of the first things they tried to travel along to a euro to this and that and we would be left behind and I stay with

23:56What I call my grandmother she was Like paper lorry and Gary she would instilling me the sense of doom. Oh Every day at the end of the day I would call her and she would say if I wake up tomorrow I will see you and if I die tonight. I want you to know that I love oh my every day Okay, I would leave rigid in the bed feeling. I'm sure she's dead and when I slept in her house I was leaving a little caught at the foot of her bed and I was spending night hearing And if she stopped I would know It happened that for a decade At least and then I was an altar boy. I was the spokesperson for the Virgin Mary I was raised very very Catholic and this is the time when I was reading Multiple books a day. I taught myself to do ultra fast reading and to this day I can read a page about a second two seconds. I get a page. Oh my gosh

24:57Okay, I know this about you you're going to mass it eight in the morning But you're coming home and you see Boris Karloff in Frankenstein in the juxtaposition yet also the parallel Yeah, it's the same to me. This is completely true. My spiritual life is forged by movies fairy tales and religion they become the same pan-slavern hands the shape of water Frankenstein to me they are parables or fairy tales You know, they became effortlessly one So my grandmother and I never agreed but she would buy me the comic books on Tuesdays on Tuesday You you went to the comic book stand in the corner and I would buy Everything archie little Lulu house of secrets house of mystery and some brown and white Mexican horror comics that were the most salacious of sure you are Being ever created. I still have like we make rubber drum blush. Oh my god They said it was called a traditional legends of Mexico, right? It was the name of the comic book and it started very altruistic

26:01Eventually started doing Edgar Allan Poe love her whatever and then at the end They were just let's put a ruthering course and a scamply crab lady and let's call it a day My mother through most of my comic books like everybody yeah, but I kept some in Europe session with The monster of course makes total sense, which is I'm not perfect. I'm flawed. I am in some way despicable right? I have some sense that I am like Defective in a way others are not especially because you're a second child. Yes. Yes. Like I'm not my brother who's like a stud And I'm not whatever yeah, you're sort of in the middle But also you can be pretty brutal with yourself and truth meaning you don't have to be perfect But you don't have to stay Either you have to give yourself the license to say look this is who I am And this is what I need and it's truthful whether we like it or not and monsters always are truthful

27:02They step into the room. You know what they are right and that's one thing I carried to design When I design I say everything design needs to have a history and I stayed in this morning I was talking about a sister Roman sister and we're designing for a stop-motion movie we're making and I said the The bricks on the floor are too small and I say why I said because they use larger slabs So the water would slide this I know and it's not that you want to make it more prettier this is truthful Yeah, it's the truth you understand the design because it came out of a need Same with the personality like we dress we're expressing something wardrobe is personality declaring trying to give you a shortcut into who you are Yeah, what do you own what card do you drive if you are wealthy But you have a 2010 car I know who you are right a little bit. Yeah Warren Buffett driving the old Cherokee famously for 30 years It tells you now. Okay, I really get it. It's not about somebody or somebody wearing

28:04Skeeters Well, he's going for comfort Like one day I visited a very famous filmmaker friend of mine and he was very excited. What are you driving? He's my car. He's just a sensible ride And what it is a sensible ride what car do you drive it was a Chrysler 2012? Okay, I still have it. Okay. Love it. Wonderful because in Mexico you love your car and once you get it That's your car You don't have many cars you're like that's my car. Yeah, you go down a mexico and you see all these incredible 80s full-size pick up trucks that are like maintain, mm-hmm. I call them El Guapo. Oh, yeah, my car. I say hey guapo. Let's go. I talk to the car like the Japanese I believe objects have a personality and a soul. Uh-huh. I cook My favorite frying pan is the easiest frying pan, but I know exactly. I was gonna heat I how is gonna cook the rice? Yeah Since you feel a sense that they have some meaning to them. Are you a major collector then?

29:05I was and I will say was because I'm quite pointedly donating Gifting and auctioning most of what I own because I think if you are still accumulating after 55 there's something not quite there unless you are going to like what George did which I adore Open it to the public if it's for you after 55 is like wearing short pants I mean look everybody has a sense of fashion Personally wouldn't subject people to me on short pants and a backwards Stay tuned for more armchair expert If you dare we are supported by all state checking all state first could save you hundreds on car insurance Not checking if the movie is sold out before you show up You drove across town found parking got in line and now the person behind the counter is giving you that look Sold out. Guess you're watching whatever starts in 10 minutes Yeah, checking first is an excellent idea

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31:09So I just download my favorite videos before takeoff and with smart downloads premium will automatically download new videos from channels You actually follow without having to lift a finger I'm covered if I forget to download a video I want to watch or even if there's no service And the home run for me is that youtube premium remembers exactly where I left off and lets me continue watching on another Device from right where I stopped so I can start a video on my tv while brushing my teeth And pick a right back up on my phone on my morning walk. So yeah, youtube was already great But premium supercharges it if you like youtube you'll love premium try youtube premium for two months free at youtube.com slash premium trial eligibility varies terms apply cancel anytime Well, how do we explain the obsession with the macabre like what makes a little kid Catholic It is a death heavy Oh endeavor the way philippines and mexican Catholicism the in-roat into the popularity of the culture

32:12The friars noticed the gory or the picture no more people were like this is interesting Yeah, so a mexican Catholicism is really gory. Yeah, there's a blood on the crucifixion you get some blood And do you get exposed bones? Yeah, you get that more to find fresh yeah, you go hard and philippino Catholicism is just as hard well and philippinos I've got to work with a ton of them in Detroit. They all believe in ghosts too culturally Everyone believes in go almost everyone has a ghost story or multiple same in a mexican dinner If somebody starts telling a story or ghost story you say you pass the salta yeah Yeah, you're all ears and everybody has one even my grandma who hated everything supernatura she have ghost stories Bedtime they don't tell you about snow white They said there was this white presence in the house I lived in Yes, I'm done telling you this story. I'm likely to pass my analyst says is like is what it's called a counterphobic reaction

33:13Meaning I was so scared as a kid that I learned to love and get really intimate with what I feared Which is a coping mechanism of course That's like the same is when you role play with your trauma right like if you have sexual trauma But you're into BDSM as your way to interact with it whatever raining you have for dad because then if you become The initiator the controller then there's some measure of control I mean when I was first scared that I remember as a kid it was so profound and my brother then scared me further and that night So you know, I started seeing things in my bedroom. Yeah, yeah Presence I would wake up with lucid dreaming in which these things were actually in my brain They were there, but you have to learn and I tell this story people think it's a cute story people think I make it up It is completely true I used to pee myself because I didn't want to get out of the crib because I saw a thing in the closet and fingers and waving at me in the rug

34:14And I got up and I said if you let me go to the bedroom I will be your friend forever. Yeah, I told the monsters and they withdrew. Oh my gosh And this is true. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and I was able to go to the bedroom But to this day in my grandmother's house there was a corridor Which I thought was Incredibly long on the road to the bathroom And I always thought what if I see something Standing at the end of the corridor, which is in devil's bag. Oh, huh. I have a few years ago. I went to that house Two feet long My my it was like the horrors. Yeah, yeah, okay So to speed through some things you start messing with dad's super eight camera when you're about eight years old This fascination takes you to ultimately the University of Guadalajara. You study cinema. We founded the school Oh you do and we were both the founders and the alumni. Oh really? There was no school in Mexico in Wadalajara for dad only in Mexico City. Oh, okay We founded two things a festival which is still going on and the school which is still going on under another name

35:17But same university was any part of your artistic endeavor like in attempt to have control over this whole thing I guess I mean I I'm now your analyst no, no, no when you don't have a social life when I say other kids were playing football I could not understand I felt 70 at a seven you were in your study. I've been growing younger Like now I feel young Benjerman bending this life Benjamin Del Toro But I think is is a way to I mean we are constantly finding balance when people say I had a bad day What you're gonna have a good one. I had a good day. Well, you're gonna have a bad one Yeah, and of sorry like the nature of the flow is the yang and the yang in meditation You remember nothing's permanent everything's gonna peak and it's gonna pass whether you're the most happy Person in the world it ebbs and flows and I think writing creating you want it so bad that you create that you created and the world does not cater

36:26To that to permits no The permanence or to what you want But is it cultural because I feel like in America we are obsessed with happiness with achieving it And then we assume we just have that for the rest of our lives But I do know in other cultures you just know that that's not something you get and you have that it is temporary My dad have a real estate company and he said before you're going to this doomed movie You should work for me. So I worked five years for that and what I remember is payday On Friday everybody was a prince and everybody knew that Monday comes you're gonna have to show up And start working you get two days of you get today. So being being a king a large ass. Yeah You're buying drinks for friends. Yeah, I'd like you put a clean shirt. Yeah, and you went down by Sunday night You're like, where's my bag? Why did I do that? But the thing that is funny for me is when the culture is all focused on

37:26secondary gains And it pays no attention to primary gain please define those two secondary gains is the things that you have to replenish constantly Attention money Approval wealth when you meet somebody that is very rich or very famous and they are worried about how will the movie open this Review was bad. I lost the exam amount of money. The primary is the person that hugs you and loves you Exactly as you are Right. That's a primary lose. Yeah, for me the most intense primary gain moment is when your kids are four five And you open the door and you're ultra men And they run because you're home That's pure primary gain and those never go away. They're a bad rock and I find it worrisome that more and more We are veering towards secondary third-shear again. If you're not careful you are holer Yeah, I went to a Latino funeral recently in Carson It was an overwhelming experience

38:28This person who had passed was not famous. They weren't a boss of many people In the turnout and the experience in the friends in the family the depth of that grief Yes in the sharing of it and I just looked at kind of the white culture I came or if you would do a funeral and there was more than 12 people there that would be crazy That other thing was really on display and I was like oh man We're really missing the boat in a lot of ways There's not such a thing as a better culture or a worse culture I think that all of them have incredible positives and incredible negatives is just What stays with you? I'll give you a difference for example in many cultures when you're in grief somebody says I'm about a phone call away If you need me call me In Latin culture in Mexican culture you show up with a bucket of foot Yeah, yeah, I heard and you're already there you don't say look all you have to do is call me No, you just show up. Yeah, you're there and the good and the bad But there are so many others. I mean nothing is perfect

39:29Yes, but there are aspects that are aspirational and what I observed was This man who I adore watching him grieve What I realized is we were all there to help take it on and we all experienced it with him I was in shambles everyone was and I thought What a beautiful thing were helping him carry this thing You know a culture by the way it deals with is more vulnerable the elders and death Yeah, those three are markers of a culture that are incredibly important I'm gonna add one more. I was in Miami not long ago And I was at it a very nice restaurant the traditional white version is you get a babysitter and you go to this really nice restaurant You have this romantic experience Well, that was happening at many tables The white people were there with the mom and dad and this is 11 o'clock at night All of the Latino Tables was like all the kids were there brothers and sisters were there. Yeah, yeah, and that's just different and I think it's

40:29Asperation the fascination for me is just what stays with you We all make massive mistakes. I've caused pain. I'm being costane and I continue to do it But the fact is the balance the ultimate balance the invoice Comes in the last three minutes of your life when you have no illusions of being What do you do for a living well in three minutes nothing? Yeah, there's no other thing no other thing Who are you in three minutes nothing? Yeah, yeah, I mean the moment the system starts to Yeah, yeah, the DMT is released. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's Ideally what you should have accumulated in life what you should have accumulated in life is Well, yeah, I fucked up royally over here, but I did this other thing Yes, and it all comes incredibly clear for some reason it may be biochemical That's why I say experiential It's human. It's not that I'm a ludite

41:30I'm not a guy that says will you know we should not use technology no no no It's just look at the end of the day the invoice is what did you live? To achieve right whatever it is and it doesn't have to be a big thing. I was a good brother What a gift to have at the end what a gift to say that yeah, I was a good father or I was a good son Yeah, you don't have to be all of that. I was a good friend That's why I just say please just let's be careful for a second About how we launch into the next incarnation of our humanity I'm not saying don't do this or do that always balance it against this other Just pay attention So okay, your first I think professional job right is you write five episodes and you direct four episodes of this No before that even I mean I was doing my super aids and people started to say oh you know how to do makeup effects Would you do them on my short film or my indie film and I started To do effects for other people while I wrote and directed my own short

42:32And I said well when I quit real estate I said I'll try to make a living this other way and I founded my company with my partner and my then wife Called necropia necropia. Yeah, that's a good name I assume in spanish. This is still the base Latin of necropia the place where the death the well Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, but the thing I'm curious about is before you Did your first big movie you had been working for three years building puppets? Building the machine the little chronos device what I said is ten years before and funny enough I studied under dicksmith who was the Oscar-winning makeup effects man that did amadails That did godfather the exorcist altered states he accepted me into his makeup effects course and the academy But part of his estate and they found my first letter over him no way and I found it remarkable

43:34I'm still the same guy. Yeah, what I say the what I say I am what I think of the genre What how do I think it can be a parable that is the same? I said I like this gift Yeah, well you had an incredible gift which is you kind of knew what you were about pretty young when I was very Yeah, yeah, that's I guess of all the gifts one can have in life. I think that's the one I'll ask Amy the academy if she wants to share it with you. Oh, yes Is the letterhead from necropia and I basically say in my second or third letter. I say look I'm not gonna do this for a living I just want to make my first movie and there's no one in my country that makes makeup effects so I have to found a company Work for a few years into having the equipment and then make my first movie But I'm referring to didn't you create for a stop motion film you were intending on Yeah, I was going to do that a hundred puppets. Yeah, and the studio was broken into everything was vandalized and destroyed Destroyed and they smeared poop in the water. Okay

44:38He's called in Mexico. They call it foxing Tradition yeah They went ape in there and not what he needs is they didn't find anything worth stealing They got But how did you recoup from having spent that much time Working and focusing on something and having to say goodbye to that a friend of mine said to me The key to life is huge windshield small rear-view mirror That's nice. I think that's a very succinct Like I remember and you may remember when computers started I started writing on a word processor and you could save three pages out of once and I was like this is Can do anything better yeah then computers came and I was 20 something writing a book on Alfred Hitchcock Which got published by the university but I had done

45:41130 pages or something and I erased the disk and I immediately immediately went Okay page one Okay page one new project or page one the same one same one. That's a constitution that's hard That's a personality tree. I don't know that you can teach that no You have to sort of habit you know if came from crashing motorcycles I remember this when I was in motor cross I would take a dude in the wrong way And I was in a 300 and duo motorcycle which is too heavy for motor cross And in the air I was thinking okay, I'm gonna die or break my bones Then something went wrong and I said okay, I didn't die. I broke my bones. How do I get up? How do I push the bike off of me like immediately it was like okay next solution solution solution which by the way Eventually as a person there's a lot of you that you don't process and one day you're crossing the street and you have a panic attack or something Yeah, yeah, and that's that thing I think it's one of the years that I didn't process 15 years

46:44Okay, so you do chronos so I found the company. I do all the special effects. Yeah, I do commercial 15 movies blah blah blah And then I have the tools then I made chronos which is incredibly hard to do Incredibly against the grain incredibly unpopular with the financiers and the government and all that sure And then it wins up can that's in two seconds an aged year journey Wow, wow, wow what Film opens up the door to mimic well mimic which it was a trap door They love chronos supposedly turns out they didn't yeah, they probably didn't even see Yeah, what at any rate we develop they wanted to do a three or four anthology movie but Brian singer myself I think four directors and they said develop a short story and I had read mimic and I said well we can do this one as a short 30 minutes. I show them the tests and they said we're doing as a feature and I go

47:45I don't think there's a feature in there right. I've been unemployed chronos is 91 92 we finished shooting it comes out in 93 I own a lot of money. I owe a quarter of a million dollars at 28 Oh, yeah, it's not great for creative. No, it's great for me. Yeah, and I said well, I gotta pay that by the way that money Whatever I make on mimic I put into paying the ransom for my father This is all I'm presuming 97 my dad is kid not 98 but this period I'm presuming more to be hardest chapters of your life Between directing this movie. Yeah, we just we must say that this movie is a miserable experience for you Oh my god, no more than that. Let me put it this way that movie is the worst experience I've ever had really Including everything yeah because nothing made sense you are giving someone what time will prove that it doesn't matter If it's good or not you're giving them you're a hundred percent. Yeah, you're giving images and moments and episodes in the film That are great and they hate them. They fucked with you on casting every minute editing

48:48They fired you at one point or tried to they actually fired me on a Friday and I was rehired on a Monday Yeah, that same Monday and Brolin was in this movie Yeah, well, I called him. I loved Brolin. He was in a rough period for himself As he told me he's like I was drinking a lot on him He was drinking and he was reading a lot and we would have these deep deep super deep discussions too deep and unproductive What I love about Brolin there's certain people that have the soul of a poet and the pain of a soul of a poet Yeah, yeah, and whether they're actor directors writers you love them for the purity of their pain Yeah, I think it's a huge gift. It's an asset if your pain is pure your song is clear You're singing a louder Clearer voice in this world. This is so out of school But I have said it when I interviewed his ex but I was around Heath Ledger several times in important ways And I could feel The weight on him that was much more severe than the weight I've experienced. It was palpable

49:51Yeah And heartbreaking and also why he was just so brilliant and ready those with that exactly Yes, but you can philosophize all you want the experiencing of it is never altruistic, but I happen to think that with age You learn Mechanisms that are more truthful to the way the world works and you learn to declare your worst self Without fear the moment of freedom is not when you are at your best Is when you are your worst and you say and that's me is the only clarity you're gonna aspire to Yeah, yeah, yeah, I just had this either day where I had to present an award this bit went wrong It was The whole thing was terrible and when I was driving home. I was like oh, yeah, I like myself just as much And it was a moment for me. I was like oh We've arrived somewhere that that doesn't matter what just happened There's a great mechanism. It's very simple very simple in therapy when the question you have to ask Of anything is and I crashed my car and

50:54Well, I'm gonna take the repair and it's gonna come back. Oh, yeah Yeah, I lost a million dollars and right yeah, we stop we don't model out the whole thing We stop at the part we hated or the part we love oh, yeah, I know someone great and I just met them Yeah, everybody takes a trash on two kids every three years. Oh, okay That is also cultural the tragedy of certain cultures is to tell you that one day you'll get there Yeah, exactly what is there? I just wrote a scene in a movie that we're gonna shoot in stop motion all that Where they have to face death which is Finally my favorite theme. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and the guy says is this it and that says what else were you expecting? Okay, so there's two things that are happening all in the same zone your father gets kidnapped and you've had this Insanely terrible experience I'm mimic and both of these things end up involving James Cameron in this very sweet way that I want to shine a light on very sweet first of all

51:57He said don't do it. Don't do the movie. Yeah, we were sitting in his garden. I mean by this time we're brothers And Jim is my brother any trouble alcohol Jim we've gone through everything together. He's a good big brother He's a great big brother I Yeah, but he's one of the guys that shows up. Yeah, he shows up with lasagna. Yeah I'm here. I think he's Mexican But he says don't make the movie you're gonna get none of the budget and all of the pain. He has worn me two times Wow, give the other one The next interview. He was right Yeah, and I made the movie I go through it. He almost gets into a fist fight with Harvey Weinstein at the end You must know this story what he has won his 25th Oscar of the night for Titanic He's holding the editing. I believe Oscar. I think he's coming back to his seat It's in commercial and Harvey Weinstein decides this is a great opportunity to come up to him He said, you know, why don't you work at Miramax? We're a filmmaker friendly studio

53:00In Jim fucking goes off Tell it to you mean like the way you do we treat my friend Guillermo and he lets it rip on the floor of the academy People have to intervene James is like he almost got belted in the head with this Oscar Jim said I was almost gonna dealt him with the other thing is what people don't understand back then The public image of these guys was that they were patrons of the arts. Yes, exactly Yeah, Miramax was independent and army and they bath-mounted me everywhere So for five years I couldn't work For five years they took mimic and devils bag one. I was unhierable basically. Oh my god Everybody has heard I couldn't create images. They have to come in and what I did and this is again that same mechanism I said I don't need to make movies there. Yeah, I'll make a movie in Spain. Yes, exactly I don't need them when you mourn something you have Celebrate everything else that you could have yeah, yeah, yeah, you know what I'm saying

54:00Well, you're if you cannot be focused on this thing I'm the one thing you're not lost because you can no longer focus on what's well It's like morning the risk of mourning if you lose somebody close to you There's a syndrome where you stop paying attentions to everybody else that was left. That's true You lose a son or you lose a brother. Well, you have other siblings. I'm not being glib Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's the same in life the reaction to losing a love one should be fuck I got a double cherish the ones in front of me, but the reverse happens and I better on the other Had said to me if we can produce a movie for you let us know and during the kidnapping of my dad three things happen One is the negotiator Which Jim Cameron hired so Jim said let me his father was kidnapped for 72 days First phone call is we won three million in three days five million in five days or we chop his head up That's the first phone call And first third of the kidnapping I go on highland a closet cover my ears cannot talk while they're talking

55:02Last third of the kidnapping I negotiate so it's somewhere in the middle you change my beard comes up I have no hair in my face and it arrives in arrives. Oh my goodness. My mother loses all her hair during the 70 days all the hair I browse hair everything, but this guy comes in Jim hires him People tell he pay the ransom no we pay the ransom, but he paid for the negotiated any offer to pay the ransom, right? He did he said I'll get it in cash and a helicopter I said Jim And I'll be flying now like I'm I'll go in with Navy seal. I said Jim Oh my god, he is such a good big brother. I mean, I obviously like respect him so much, but that really makes me respect them as a person Although we were in tragedy. I said look. I don't want you to solve it. We have to solve it Yeah, but what happens is in the first 72 hours they call back and we say I think we were able to gather because my father never gave well any of us access to the money nor I'm sure told anyone where it's all that it was his money, but we couldn't access it at all not even so I put whatever I had left of mimic

56:09Which was very little because I had paid the debt from cars. Yeah, that's what we had so three days later before the negotiator arrives We say I think we can gather about a hundred thousand dollars and they hang on and we say oh and then they were shit Our arrives and said what did you say hundred thousand more? The negotiator says that same day He's gonna stay between 70 and 75 days And you screwed up Because if you can get a hundred thousand in three days, you can get a million In ex and so they're gonna squeeze you a brutal to know that, but that's the way the experience wise Can I ask him maybe this too personal is there the moment at the end from a movie where he walks out of somewhere and the money has been placed somewhere Well, that's a whole hour and it's incredibly harrowing but when people say oh, you know, you had a great career. I said no I'm survived a career. It's a brutal biography But people always think where you are is where you're always been sure sure But of course it isn't and the kidnapping was the same

57:11Many days you would wake up and said what if he doesn't return well the protective part of your brain Has to be actively also preparing you for that To save you when we talk about people that are similar as directors some visuals some days when I the difference is in your experience I am acutely aware of the spiritual and I'm acutely aware of pain That makes a difference your images are charged in a different way and they help you through this the negotiator says that He says what do you do each of us and I say I'm a writer director. He says write Every day write for three to four hours every day. I want you. He's kidnapped not you You're gonna discipline yourself into sitting down. This person's does special Oh, he was an English agent He had worked for the Secret Service in England fascinating guy. Yeah, but he says you're not kidnapped He is you are a writer write and what you will be assigned in the business first part is you will transfer All the phone calls into dialogue and in English and in Spanish

58:14Oh, okay, he kept you busy Well, he needs you to do what you do and that helps you find a center But the other thing that happens then I start writing two things Monte Cristo is about revenge and the devil's vag one oh my god for Pedro Pedro during the kidnapping comes and visits me and I said here's what I'm writing and he says These are like three movies in one But I develop the devil's vag one and Monte Cristo while my dad is Were you talking to your dad like how did you know a few times we we talked to him only one time as proof of life She's first line is why are you taking so long? Because you know tells where the money is motherfucker I'm by the way, we already paid ones and now we have to pay again They said now we have enough money. We can wait. Oh, they keep him another 30 something days I'm 62 and now I'm the only one That remembers that my mother's gone my dad is gone my brother's gone. Do you draw on that often? Only in whatever little tools you get philosophically to come with that

59:16But you know, but does when somebody talks about oh, you know You're an artist and you're privileged and you say I'm more than that. Well, you're the sum of everything Don't judge anyone by where they are judge. How did they get there? What did they learn in the process? What did you go through? Stay tuned for more armchair expert if you dare So now you're going to run the devil's backbone is incredible Doing that for example comes out 910 The next day 911 oh And you learn okay, whatever Joy you achieved in Toronto film festival that day and you feel like a winner then life tells you Talk about the impermanence. Yes, there's all this cosmic stuff. You learn at a visceral level. How connected All or fates are I mean, that's the impossible thing for me is how we have been individualized by machines that have basically worked as

1:00:20Narcissistic mirrors and we are now incapable of Of understanding that we are all a single cell unit whether we like it or not when you only think of yourself It's cancer We have cancer those key to happiness Sartre said hell is the others heaven Is also the others if you have kids and you say I just want they're good. You are immediately happier You know, yes, I'm going through this but my kids are good You can always say that is like Marty Feldman in young Frank is like good rewards. It could be raining It's always that Okay, I just want to get to pans now because we do blade two And then hellboy blade to is a blast. I would imagine Wesley and he's an enigma to me. He's nothing right to me I want to find he said to me. I am unknowable Really Absolutely agree I wanted to prove how I could handle big action because part of the made on mimic the Weinstein

1:01:24Well, he cannot do big movies and I go on I can't I'll show you yes and blade was done for about 34 35 40 million plus Wesley's salary, but it was a relatively small movie. Yes, and I wanted to look big and the action to be very innovative and all that and he said to me I have a few rules. He says I don't do over shoulders Oh, I'll give you three setups a day four setups a day and the rest you do with my body double I don't care. Yeah, okay, and he said and blah blah and I said I can do all that why because I know how to should make up effects So I can shoot a full shot like there's a close-up in the movie that is not Wesley You're kidding me. This is body double And I need to rewatch the whole scene is not Wesley and I remember Wesley in the ADR. I'm shocked he came to ADR He came to me to do overs. We actually enjoyed each other. Yeah, we have a couple of Sure How do you do with confrontation in general?

1:02:27If it's private I never shake if it's public I go the whole way very fast. Oh, okay. If it's in front of everybody Oh my god, it's like okay now you're not giving me that space. I'm gonna go all the way with you. Okay I am actually good with confrontation. It comes from big Mexican. Yeah, yeah privately and with friends it's really hard if you love somebody and then I'm paralyzed But if you're a star or you're ahead of a studio I go all the way I don't mind but privately I really like to find a point of comfort for both of us. Yeah Compromise. Okay, so 2006 hands labyrinth and that's what we're here to talk about because it is A that's one of your anniversary. Yes, and it's coming out again. Yeah, and it's coming out in a bunch of different new formats I have colored time did 20 times in the last few months. Oh my god I have colored time did for a 3D color time it for barco color time it for Dolby digital color time did for 4k Wow

1:03:27What's your stamina through that and the last five? Yeah, about six neural points in color where you go Are the highlights clean? Are the blacks saturated and clean black or white in an image the highest point of contrast and the lowest are Easily contaminated is very hard to achieve pure whites or pure black Yeah, so you have this is I'm a gentoblack. This is a cyan white. I went to a really cool test when I was coloring for a movie I directed and they were showing Us people are enamored with 4k 6k 8k then they show you what's the difference when you control the blacks That's it right like you could be in 2k With really control blocks versus a k and it's like oh well this looks so much more beautiful I tell you Dolby digital laser projection is just so incredibly beautiful mind blowing because you can control those So the whites are pure the blacks are pure for example saturation and color The more you saturate the richer the black right so if you have good blacks you have perfect color

1:04:30Oh Ideal and then you have to be careful and I work with two colors in the spectrum that are very hard gold and cyan Incredibly hard why both gold and cyan become green really easy as you start manipulating that cyan But you sneeze and is blue and cyan you sneeze and is green. Oh And gold you sneeze and is red and you sneeze and is yellow Yeah, you have to constantly be footing that so when you're coloring you're prioritizing your two Colors the most you say these are the six points in the movie that I need to make sure are good And then you do a full-timing one or two times. Okay, normally I have to do it because I'm available And I'm I'm right there and then you have to make sure the audience is experiencing that this is the most perfect the movies ever been Yes, so what is it like for you 20 years later to see now visually a version that I finally like it Oh, okay, you were unsatisfying. I was always I and there's still one image That's horrible like call it a sign fell

1:05:32I don't do establishing shots. This is establishing shock. Oh, every time it pops up I go Here Kramer walking in the door. What happens is it's a stront lid It was the only time we always like when Navarro you map out the location and you say we can shoot here because the sun is behind us Right or lateral you'd never want to shoot with the sun in front because everything's flat Right, there's no yeah, so the sun is Toronto on this establishing and I need to establish any of it You don't like I don't want to add this. This is interesting a lot of times also your failures your inconveniences Can give birth to something very special This is true right? Yeah, mimic they fucked with you in the edits so much that you being clever. We're like from now on My shots are going to be very long and constructed so it's impossible to get into them Yeah, that or it would never was back when my editor called me and said could you please Shut up count to three before saying cut

1:06:34I used to say cut right to the frame. Yeah My god because I didn't want anyone else coming on editing But this is a weirdly a gift for you, right? I have now relaxed Bradley Cooper helped me relax In what way? No one's gonna fuck with you every day. Heresy. I'm gonna say heresy. What if we I would jive I said I can jive the more you can surf and not just play chess The more both of those disciplines feed on each other. Oh, yeah I think that is really good to be rigorous in order to be flexible You're like know it perfectly so you can throw it away. Yeah, yeah exactly. Is there something better in the day if there is Don't be so uptight that you don't see it, but don't be you know prepared because you will lose it Like conversation is working if both sides are listening. Yeah, right and sometimes people show up with a preconceived notion Whether it's an actor or a director and I talk to people that have worked or were friends with Cuba and yes

1:07:35He knew most of what he wanted But then the accident and then lack of importance in delivering a line He courted and he had to extract through process You know, I think is the same with every perfection. There's a point where you have to have the accident Yes, yes, yes, well, it'll start feeling like I made it That's the point In his aunt chemistry is alchemy the key to alchemy both philosophically and chemically is you take what it's called vial matter I would transform it into Sublime matter if you only Yuckstables unpermutate which is what a search engine does things that already happened. Yeah, Chris crossing information you achieve Straighten to the middle you bullseye the average you never achieve the 1% over there. Yeah, it's actually incapable It's not built to do that. You're reacting with everything you are you were beaten as a child You lost your mother when you were 12 you suffered tragedy You suffered joy you got drunk at 15 you crashed the car all this is inside of you taking that decision that day

1:08:44Yeah, all of that is in there. It's magic. It's magic. Let's call it what it is. It's art Yeah, the other thing produces something that didn't vibrate with any experience no matter how many Because it's not a model. We are part of a leaving breathing cosmic experience And I'm not going to move this is true of everyone of us And then you vibrate with others and you know the way you achieve one solution The way you start in one take and you go that's the good one. Yeah I'm not sure I started that's what made it work We all live that excitement. Yeah, it's it's a sport. It's a contact sport Scorsese is a lovely example of this for us right he will often use Flood shots and his own flux. Yeah, so prioritize what he saw in that performance at that moment And that's why many people people I respect are one take to takes I visited Steven into shooting and bridge of spice And it informed everything I felt about shape of water everything and in a couple of days

1:09:45I visited really he would orchestrate a shot. He said do you like it? I go it's glorious. Just wait a second Can I get better and he goes in and he changes one vector You enter through the ride you just stop right there and instantly is better. He says better. I should watch better But three takes I always was like oh, I do 12 takes I started to say I got to be able to shoot it I got to let it go now when you get the feeling life is like water right like if you are like this How much water are you holding yeah exactly? And if you're like this. Yep. How much water are you holding and I think The key to art is you have to feel when you have to do that when you have to do that My life experience of that was I had bought an engagement ring for my wife I had it for a while I was going to go to a restaurant or as the first place I ever said I love you It was going to be around a certain day That was like a month out and then it's Christmas night and we're sitting in bed and there's this emotional

1:10:49Thing happening And I just went oh, I'm gonna try to recreate this in a month at a restaurant, but it's now And I went and got the wedding ring then, you know, and it was like oh right. No, it's happening now Recognize when it's happening. I think said the imagination is better than knowledge right more important than knowledge and also Living the moment as it wants to be because it wants to be that Is wisdom is more important than any of the other things and and the problem is we preconceived so much That we're living in not with a living animal, but a piece of taxi durmary or life becomes taxi durmary Oh, if I don't get this then it's not no no life is so alive And it's not domesticated It is what it wants to be Same with a movie by the way I say when people think I'm all you you who when I say The movie tells you what it wants to be I paint model kids on Sundays and there's a point in the coloring where the color tells you

1:11:54Is I'm gonna paint it white and then you end up purple? And how it happens is you let the model and the color talk to you. Yeah, it's a conversation Yeah, it's a conversation yeah same with life, but it requires confidence Yeah, yeah, I think so to let go I think that requires I'll be fine. It'll be fine things will be fine if I let go Well, there's a great mantra no matter what I'll be okay because it's a decision to be okay I did a 10 day silent retreat. Oh, wow completely silent. You couldn't make a contact You couldn't talk level plan. It was all about meditation and there was a point Where I had my first panic attack actually the key is You are in the panic attack. I never had it for decades. I never had it and I go I couldn't recognize it. Yes, but you stay on it and you come out whatever you're going through stay on it Yeah, the good to bad whatever because it's gonna go yeah panic attacks are interesting. I used to get them too You're often I yeah, I used to get them often

1:12:55But I learn like what creates the panic is like when's it gonna end? When's it gonna end? When's it gonna end? And when you just start to realize like it's going to but you don't get to decide Then it goes away. It's this fear of it never ending It's the boot is the discomfort is the craving for a different state of being That's right. Right just comfort is just acceptance of it. Yeah. Yeah. This is me right now The problem is not the lacking is the one thing yes Yeah, I don't have that's a problem not the having but you know what you're describing Exactly that's life when is it going in it will yeah Yeah, just give it time on your time. You're talking about you know everybody that dies Have the laundry to pick up everybody that dies when oh I was gonna go through the van I have a question about pans labans because it was quite celebrated obviously you were nominated for six Oscars You won three you got a 22-minute Standing ovation which is the longest in history at can I can it still holds the right yes an international festival

1:13:58It got broken this year and Venice it got 25 one film but in can it still holds it was really surprising I mean they programmed us the last day of the festival most journalists have gone oh wow We were expecting the movie to just play and in France the audiences are very silent at the end Like if a movie is not playing you hear the seeds Because they make it a point Maybe they want you to know I'm walking out. Yeah. Yeah, but they don't react to the movie like American audiences are Mexican audiences also very silent But in France all of a sudden in the middle of the movie People starting to who and all and when she cuts his mouth in the middle of the movie They gave it a huge ovation And I thought this is landing differently. I have many questions about this And when I imagine being in the situation I think I would love The first three minutes. Yes, I would feel so validated and loved and then at about the five-minute marker

1:15:04I might think you don't know what to do when is this gonna end and everyone's looking at me And to know that there was 17 more minutes back to sign felt this is an episode of sign felt Yeah, there's a commute What's the real-time visual experience like do you get self-conscious then do you move past that are there waves of accepting it and rejecting it? Is it uncomfortable at some point? Alfonso Quaron who no matter what I tell him it's not necessary Alfonso to tell the truth all the time So it's like 100% true. Yeah, he doesn't He's brutal and he noticed and he said let it in. Oh take it in pal don't fight it It would be hard not to fight. I'm not very good with too much praise Yeah, Alfonso said that and I was able to it was also surreal And then it didn't show up almost anywhere because most people have left

1:16:04So it was like if I if a tree falls in the forest But then eventually it trickled out and theory the head of the festival said it got this longest standing ovation You know history of the festival and that got picked up but the first review was not a good review really I think the headline I maybe wrong here was like this ain't laid to oh Okay, okay, so either way we need to know how that person feels about blade to to begin with for example When Alejandro Alfonso and I are gonna open a movie there's always Tribulation we always say look Alfonso is very very wise and he's very worldly in certain ways, but he's tough But he says if you make a bad movie and you win a few awards Is it not a bad movie anymore? I said if you make a good movie and you don't get any awards Is it a bad movie we live and die by your latest record? Yes, in this industry And then you know the best place to be is when you say Whatever happens I'll be okay like I don't need any more

1:17:05Reaffirmation the only thing you do is did I do it my way? Do you like it? Did I get the thing in my head out in the way I'm exactly right? Yeah, yeah Did I make the thing I wanted to see that's it? I mean they always say well either you choose the movie I say the one nobody else would do is the one I do even if it's related to or hellboy your career is definitely defined by that I think it's so exciting because so many people have not seen pans Quabbert 20 years ago on screen certain right and then now so not only obviously the visual of it has changed in ways What are you finding for you that's shocking about let's say watching it in 3d like what is new or exciting to you? Well when I did Pacific Rim I Quite pointedly my first thought Was really silly I said I wish I could go back and do pans in 3d. Oh no, Kenny Because the posterisation was so good and I felt I could make the fantasy world a little deeper

1:18:07And the real world a little more shallow Of course, I didn't own the movie I couldn't control it. I couldn't spend the money to do it nobody would So I thought well out of my head Then it took me 15 years to buy pans labyrinth back I got it back and the first thing is I want to try and do it in 3d. Yes I'm so excited to see me too the thing with the 3d if you use it creatively If you actually are supplementing the story with that and the experience is deeper than is worth it And we did it very pointedly with the same company that we did Pacific Rim and we did it By the same manual human method. I mean there are shortcuts now with AI and all this and I said it's my money I want to spend more money and do it with a person making that decision. Yes Down a machine or an algorithm. I just want to do four minutes on frankincense because I had the most glorious Experience with frankincense, which is

1:19:08unfortunately I think Jacobal Lordy Overshadowed what I you I didn't know you made that movie. I knew there was a frankincense time movie coming out with Jacobal Lordy Oh, thank God we were at friends house and They're like let's watch this I heard it was good. No, I'm okay. I'll give it a shot and From the second it starts I go oh someone Very special is behind this movie the imagery Immediately it's so overwhelming That I went this has to be Guillermo like I didn't know that was you but just it's such a it makes me emotional What you achieve visually with that movie. It's so mind-blowing That I wanted to ask you do you think you're a painter? Yeah, what do we think? Well, how do I How do I understand why you're able to create images In the way you do I'm visually extremely disciplined

1:20:11But by this I also say I am joyful in the creation of images I think 80% of the communication with an audience is not verbal meaning we have the play That's one thing the screen play but we have the audiovisual screenplay and that you code in colors shapes Light is non-verbal and most of the movies submerged in that but the pleasure of consuming me Image it's it's very rare that you are aware of the pleasure you're receiving just looking at this composition. Yeah, it's so powerful and soothing and painting. Yeah, it comes from me studying the painters as a kid with that encyclopedia of art and learning what a difference it made When the romantic school of painting what is it trying to achieve the symbolists? What are they trying to achieve? Why is it important a small painting like the origin of the world? Why is it important to paint peasants eating potatoes?

1:21:13Which was not academically acceptable before and understanding that from my really early age You became what you ate but also in a way that favors communication where you say I love Jack Kirby right? I love Steve did go. I love all the comic book artists, but I also love Manet Monique and having the same value. So you say okay, I'm gonna entertain and surprise, but also it's a pulse every image Either relaxes you or takes you to a wow gives you tension if you make every image equally important You're not doing your job right you have to know when you want people To lean in and when you want them to lean back. Yeah back to the ebb and flow of life The ebb and flow has to exist So you designed it like symphony you have an overture. Yeah, yeah, we slow down and we take a breath We are on Allegro and on Allegro non-trop or you have to make it symphonic because the aspiration of a movie Is to be like music to transport you music has this miraculous quality which is it seems to enter you is the highest art form

1:22:22In my opinion music and when any of the other forms I choose a little bit that musical Magic yeah, I mean I always say look orfius God you really see out because he was a musician almost got her out He didn't you failed at the end, but I'm saying if he was a movie director both would be in hell from the start He would say listen to me. I need 120 people And a few million dollars to show you my art in the musician just grabs an instrument and even no instrument and just The human boys this is what you come at the end of the discussion about art the only treasure we have is a voice And each of us have a voice yeah, and each of us have one song One song you sing and when you hear the right boy sing the right song Like what is language language is this tool we use to get this thought in my head into your head And then music somehow is this fast pass of like let me give you the emotion in my heart Let me open my mouth and let this noise out and you can feel my emotion. That's like

1:23:26But even when you talk about language that's the magical thing out of language I write English is my second language which is my boy By the time I talk to you I already Thought it proved it converted it check the syntax I can't and then said it in less than a second So I value the language so much I value the precision of the term mark Twain said the difference between the right word and the next to right word is a different between the lighting bug and lining There is so much music in the language yeah the alliterations the rhythm of the consonant The way consonants are music and when the voice is right, I mean they can say also well Right Ordering a pizza I want

1:24:27But that's the thing we all have the human voice please let's not lose it That's all I have to say about art. Please don't make it about an image or a sound is the human voice Can we understand that if we lose or boys we all are something Not human I mean whatever the hell will stand in our future in two legs If we lose a human voice that thing no matter how wealthy no matter how full of comfort That thing is not gonna be a human being can we all understand the stakes? Don't short things that can divide us that's the magic of the human voice Okay, the last thing I promise on on Frankenstein. I want to applaud him publicly I think the Oscar Isaac performance is among Incredibly the most vanity free Performances I've ever seen I agree with you. It's so beautifully Unveined. I don't know what else to say unconscious self-conscious total lack of vanity

1:25:29And I want to know did he arrive like that? Did you guys work to be that what happened there? That's so special First of all, thank you and I'm gonna say actors is like magicians or comedians You know when you did the pause at the right place, right? Well, you also know when you did not filter it Provinity when you were completely in danger. Let me show you the ugliest version of myself the most vulnerable I mean that performance is a incredibly hard to deliver Yes, yes perfectly delivered It does what it needs you to experience. It's a master doing it. It is a master performance from this guy We have a great talk. He's my brother. He's one of my brothers in life I Adore him. I said to him look I've been victor and I've been the creature and I said I've been The worst and I've been the most vulnerable and the fact that we are paradoxical beings if you're the actor And I'm the visionary director. We cannot deliver this movie

1:26:32Said you have to be a flawed motherfucker and I have to come to you and say I don't know and I have to come in and say We are fucked up. We got to figure this out. I said so the next few months I gotta tell you everything I've done wrong in life and you have to tell me everything you've done wrong in life And we have to come in as imperfect as we can to this movie Because the rest I already took care of everything visually has been you and I are gonna have to fluctuate and we I achieved something that made us very vulnerable and and there was a moment in that movie where My entire bottom as a human being fell through We were connected I could see him from the other side of the room and I would go And he goes oh What an experience you got to share with a human on her I knew when he didn't know And I knew when he knew You were one being one being yeah, and that is to this day the best experience I've ever had Yeah, with an actor so obvious. It's so obvious something very very special happened

1:27:37Some movies are brawlers and they take care of themselves this movie was a brawler Like losing the actor for the creature Nine weeks or so before we start shooting. I didn't even know that happened. I was not afraid I said something better is coming and I talked to Jacob and I see him on the zoom I said that's the guy. Yeah, yeah I'm from then on two takes three takes with the guy max yeah, and direction was simple He is a monster. I mean, he's a beautiful monster But I was on red carpet at like the golden globes And I turned around and I just was in his chest right and I'm a large man And I go oh my god Glorious I like your glory Like he takes your breath. Oh, yeah, there was never a question About the makeup there was never a question about how much of me is gonna show up He just ran in then you know whatever happens like for example I work with me a goth who's completely in central. She's riveting

1:28:38She's riveting and because I never knew what was gonna happen in the game But she's real the two realist actors. I work with our Sally Hawkins on her With you didn't know and all of a sudden you were cut And I'm guessing too you don't even want to be a part of whatever's happening like just I don't ever want to fuck up this thing that's happening I remember for example in the scene between her and him we had the butterfly on the table And in the third take she drops down and talks to the butterfly. She decided that yeah I had her holding it like hamlet Yeah, yeah, yeah, she just dropped down to the level of the butterfly and the next take I went down with the camera I said let's be prepared You know I opened myself I said I have to know a little Yeah First day I said well, this is your mark. I'm very precise with the camera normally Yes, this is your mark. You're not stopping and I'm gonna do a mini master and she says what is a mini master? And why do I have to stand there? I knew this was coming from purity

1:29:41Yeah, not an ego and she said why don't we shoot it and see what happens? I think well, yeah, why not? Okay, when does pans come out pans? On my birthday October 9th Okay, wonderful. I will be watching it in 3d Geimos is such an enormous honor to get to chat with the two of us. I just really feel lucky Sometimes we have singers who come in and they'll sing and sometimes we're like How is this our job to be here? Yeah, Marcus Mumford sitting there screaming at us and be in the zone with them And like that's how I feel getting to look at that It's not amazing. What's happiness We do what we love and whatever moment I am doesn't have to be the moment of acting or the moment of directing But our life is Aligned up with our joy Yeah, that's a special That's a blessing. It is. Oh, well, what a blast. Thank you. Everyone. I don't drink the liquid. No

1:30:46Yeah, there's a great rule to directing if you drink you pee if you pee you leave Oh, never leave the set All right, we'll be well. Thanks for coming. Thank you. Bye. Bye Is it our care expert buddy makes mistakes all the time? They got my occurs here. He's got a little half the facts I just want to pee And my underwear is on backwards so backwards. Yeah, not inside out. No backwards aren't your underwear generally bigger in front than in back Don't you really notice the upfront having Apparently not a family now. Did you correct it or you're like this? No, I didn't have time You so I left it. I see you were sitting on the commode and you look down and you're like, oh those are backwards exactly And they're like but fucking who has my shoes my pants I have a belt on I don't know that you'd have to take your shoes off to take your pants off it trust me I could but it would take a lot of thought okay, and there's slippery shoes it would come off anyway

1:31:50Wow, you committed there's no physical discomfort though. No, I mean, it's a comfy. It's a it's a thong uh-huh sure So now it's it's not a string It's it's not as what are they calling even I don't even know what that's called anymore String cheese cheese cheese. It's not a joker. I would notice if it was a piece. Okay, right and it was Yeah, maybe the I also think maybe these are a little stretched out. Okay The elasticity is yeah better days. So like it's probably covering up more than it should. Okay. Okay, you're right This leads me to the back doesn't feel like um cumbersome and bound up like you don't feel like you have a bunch of fabric back there No, because it's still a small amount of fabric in the front, you know So this leads me to the fact that I did Not fast math Well, I maybe I did fast math, which is why it was too fast incorrect Yes, where I thought I was starting my period this past Monday. It's Wednesday

1:32:53We had in fact we had a guest that's coming out. I know we're good chunk of the interview is talking about your different phases And you were completely on you're talking on your ass on that one is in redros back I was and I and I maybe we were in the same thing. I don't even know yeah, but I thought I was about to start my period and I'm not now. It's would you ever use a coming Monday look like the app I now have flow I had it for a little bit and you're like uh Yeah, I have an open mind since that plane ride if I'm being honest. I should Is that plane ride when I first started using it when I discovered I had already made the meal I was supposed to make oh right Yeah, yeah, okay um they want to have in the app. Well, you can tell people they don't know what's going on It's not out yet. You have flow. Yes, I have flow for partners. So I I am theory know what my partner is going through Yeah, I actually I think that's so For one like smart. Yeah, too. It's very sweet. It's that you care to know what's going on with your partner. Yeah, I recommend this for people in partnerships

1:34:00Yeah, yeah, I did I asked if you if like there was an ability like a Google calendar where you had a lot of people So you had your partner you have you have Christian You have both of your teenage girls you have me all the women you have to deal with I need I actually need like the AI version That's like You should make up a reason to go out of town these 36 hours. That's never how it should be used. No stick around and it's just like make us all dinner On our day. That's a good way to be fun But anyway, so I think the backwards under it has to do with my face in pending Period. Yeah, okay, but I was so much cheaper though. I know, but now I'm I thought that I was like have I done bad math again? Is it two weeks away? Because normally I'm not in so great of a mood. I have pretty bad PMDD That's an intense version of PMS and I think I have double furgo

1:35:02Double D's double D's You like things and doubles I do I do I do um, so I'm normally I can tell because I'm very easily agitated. Yeah Well, though, and I don't want this to sound um insultine Let me back up and say do you remember the great guests? We had that 30% of all medical issues are psychosomatic right that we learned that 30% of people Seasures don't have epilepsy 30% of people with heart attacks don't have heart disease that it's kind of a standard So just acknowledging we're very very prone to psychosomatic conditions. Do you think any element of it is psychosomatic? So you didn't need to say that Oh, cuz I was gonna say that. Oh, okay. Oh, here it is Oh No, because I was gonna say Well two things one I am in a good mood. Yeah, or the most chipper I'd say and spring the year step and that worries me a little

1:36:03But I'm not doing not yeah, I'm not doing math correctly But also what it did tell me Was that yeah some of it might be in your head because you're expecting it But I wasn't a very good mood last week, right and I I said to myself I'm like I'm I don't have that anymore Right, so you're you're ready to you're happy to shed it yeah, I was like oh, I must not hat that's gone away Yeah, um, but I did have a few other things like my back was hurting these are all you know I think this is the way in which it could manifest itself psychosomatic which is You have a bit of irritability and then you go oh here we go, right like off. It's here Whereas that might have just been an acute moment of irritability But certainly if you if you're like here we go, I do think you're then really noticed Yeah, your things that are irritating you perhaps but then the um, you know the backwards underwear is very

1:37:04That's a tell yeah, you're dropping stuff. I don't understand. I spill a lot clumsy get real clumsy PMS CC EMS clumsy clumsy crazy clumsy. Yeah, so um, that's what's going on with me. I went to a concert last night Oh my god CC. Yeah, how was it? Yeah, and I tried not to name drop, but this feels like it would be insane not to name drop I went to see Jack white with Jack black No way how great is that that's great. Are they best friends? Well, did you see the snl that they did last year? It's among the most impressive things I've ever seen It's Jack Black he's hosting snl and Jack white is the musician that night. I love it. So he does a A version of seven nation army But walking through the green room talking to cast members then comes out and sage then collides with jack white and then they let it fucking rip

1:38:08It's a impressive on 20 levels wow the comedies happening the improvs happening the synchronized uh synchronicity of the song is how it's wow There's a couple people in the world that can do what jack black did it So fucking talented if you miss that episode go back in the archives We didn't review him great app So then wabi was nice enough to connect me with tickets great So I then reach out to jack black now this is the second time this has happened in my life So one time as you might recall I invited Matthew McConaughey to a Stand-up performance at the serena on a date basically Under shults. Yes, and we went and it was embarrassing because like I had gotten tickets But of course like he had built the arena like he had helped design the arena So then he's like well, yeah, we could totally do your thing or we could go sit in this box while a lot So it's just kind of funny like I invite him and it was nice. Yeah, yeah So similar thing happened, which is how I was like oh, I know Jack likes jack white

1:39:11I have two tickets. Um, I don't know who to go with on Tuesday night. So I invited him and he was like Uh, yeah, okay, great. Let's um we'll ride there. So he rides an electric motorcycle Which is fantastic. So he shot the I mean we even the highlight and I was him and I riding around a motorcycle to go to this show Just chatting at every stoplight was so fun But of course like And again major blessings to Wabi Wabi. He had hooked me up. I was gonna get very nice treatment But then I arrived with jack black And then it was like as we're coming in the parking lot It's just like everyone there knows to instruct him to go there. He goes to shows there all the time He has a special parking spot We don't nothing like Is go anywhere you want you want to send a jack white to lab Like you name it. So so you didn't end up sitting in the seats you got No, and I got to sit on the stage with jack black. He had just stage right like where the guitar tech is working on the guitar Backstage side stage. Yes, stage right And then also I get to meet jack white because I'm with jack black. Oh fine

1:40:15It was so fun and then as Wabi Wabi and I were just discussing It jack white is so worth seeing in your lifetime But what he does with this guitar is almost really beyond description He's doing something much much different than just He's like he's forming a piece of metal into something right there's like he's at war with this fucking guitar And he just man handles it in this way that is just really wild. I don't think I'm ever anyone seen anyone live Play guitar like he was doing wow That's awesome. He's from Michigan. You know john c. Riley um Is in the video for archbishop when my favorite song okay One album ago. Let's say man song Wabi want archbishop herald homes Herald homes archbishop herald homes and it's about a preacher right And I didn't even notice but john c. Riley I had seen the video john c. Riley did a video of him in a church as a preacher to that song Well john c. Riley was there last night And then I found out from him he just made that video that wasn't like a request. Oh fun

1:41:20He's just want he loved the song so much he wanted to make a video Yeah, so he was right there in his garb from the video Preacher's garb. Yes. Yes. Well, that's cute top hat and stuff. Sure. I don't know if you call it top care Yeah, but I know what you mean I think it is a top hat No, I'm saying because whatever he's wearing is not yeah He's not even look like able to me. It's more of a chef's hat looking still my pat maybe they call it maybe Okay, anyways, it was a lot of fun fun. Yeah, it was a lot of fun. We're out in the world I was out in the world and I really um, I really like that jack black so much She's such a sweet boy. Yeah, I like him a lot too. Okay, my other story. Oh It Oh back to back Two stories. Oh my god. Well, I'm happy to hear another one of your stories and then you go and I have more but nothing Oh tell me yours. Okay, well, so We don't have any air conditioning like period. Oh everything has been ripped out of the house

1:42:24Yeah, this is the end and for people You know, no, it's still very hot now in the 90s. It's a we're in a heat wave It's getting even worse this week. It's getting crumpled. You get a fly. Oh Oh And now you're stretching your elbow kind of uncontrollably. We'll get to this. Okay, okay So we have no air conditioning bell is in Paris Mm-hmm And the girls and I go to bed night one with no air conditioning and Or on the second floor and it's it's warm. It's warm up there. Yeah, it's very warm. Yep And so we all start in my room and We're I'm just laying you know with pajama bottom pants no shirt no sheet anything. I'm just a little underwear on correctly or backwards I'm in my pajama pants You don't Find that disgusting you don't Okay, I don't think anybody does No, that's what jammy I don't think men wear underwear with their jammy bottoms

1:43:27Serious rob yeah, I wear I wear underwear under it. Okay, no, I think he's in the majority I also never wear pajama pants so Well, that's different when I didn't wear pajama pants. I wore boxers to bed. Yeah, oh But if you wore pajama pants you put fucking underwear on under them. Yeah, yeah, okay Cuz you're throwing it out of it's like cold and you leave your underwear on in a massage Yeah A lot of people do okay, I was told I'm supposed to by No recently she's like leave you leave your underwear on Listen, I also leave I I'm 50 50 on leaving underwear on in a massage. I sometimes do I sometimes don't okay But also um, I wear pajama pants all the time Constantly and I'm wearing underwear, but your underwear are way smaller than my underwear Although your nighttime underwear might be my underwear my nighttime underwear is Well They're neckers. Yeah, my neck sees

1:44:31Um, where was I okay, so it was hot Lincoln's particularly hot and and I think she gets it in her head She's not convulsed and she's like me right so she's a little bit prone to this psychosomatic Yeah, whatever you call it's on me. Yeah, right. She had a real bad year. She got over it. Thank God I thought she was never gonna get over but anyway, she got over it But I could just feel that she got in in her head that she was not gonna be able to sleep So she's already on pins and needles. I do fall asleep and then I hear dad Stop snoring Am I money and I'm of course I'm like I bet I'm not I bet like she's so But you probably work easily I did because you already can't go to sleep But didn't you say you've been snoring lately and that's why you're doing the sleep tests and stuff Yeah, but now I have a spray. I'm using that I thought wait does you know, oh, I am not of A trustworthy witness because I have I didn't witness it. Yeah, I was a reliable all to say though

1:45:32Okay, sorry, I'll sleep on my side. I don't need a hot as one not snore. Is that like I chose this one? Now I've been walking up and now it takes me other 15 minutes fall back asleep And then as soon as I get asleep like And I'm like oh my god, I can't I there's no what are we gonna do? I I'm like okay Mind you we were in my room because it was the coolest of the three options. Yes, so I go find I'll leave I'll leave So now I'm like crumbling I go into Delta's room which is like 750 degrees and I lay down on that bed and It takes me about 45 minutes to fall asleep in there. So now we're at About midnight. I'd say that I'm going to bed. I'll wake up at six one thirty a.m Because I'm benonced to me and I don't know if Lincoln Now Delta's snore was bothering her or she just was like it's too hot in here She went out to the guest house smart. Yes, because that does have American. I don't know why you guys

1:46:34Should have started. Yeah, but absolutely Stupid okay, so she's left Delta was asleep when I left So Delta wakes up at one thirty in the morning nobody's in the room. Yeah Additionally a couple spooky things happened by Delta's Delta got convinced earlier when we were just in Delta's room and we were listening to a book on tape She went in the hallway and Frank was in in his little bed the dog And she got convinced that someone had moved Frank out of his bed onto the hallway And I said well, honey Frank would have barked if a stranger Definitely, but he added in her mind a little bit that something spooky was already happening Then she wakes up in a room and no one's there anymore She hated that so at one thirty in the morning after I finally fall asleep All of a sudden lights full blast are on In her bedroom and now I'm up she's crying. Oh, she's crying. She's scared She's like she woke up in a room and no one was there she went to bed. There were people there There's a ghost in the house moving Frank

1:47:35And so I'm like oh my god, this is badness now it's one thirty and We lay there for 45 minutes and it's just too hot in that room now And I said you want to go back and I'm all to say by the time we got in my bedroom And we went to sleep it was like three a.m. It was madness It was total chaos from nine p.m. So three in the morning Was crazy bad. Yeah barely made it through yesterday But you did and then was time to go see the concert. I'm like I should be so excited to see the concert But I would love to go to sleep right now, but I rarely And you're happy about it. I'm happy about it speaking of sleep. Yeah. I am Convinceed there's a bug in my ear Okay, how did you got in there in the night? Okay, and I can't get him out because my ear is so itchy Uh-huh and like In a string it's in a strange way like very very very itchy

1:48:35I used a q-tip to to see if I could get any legs out And it I think just pushed him further in or something. Okay. Okay Also likely potentially when I was like itching a it a ton I irritated it and so now it's just itching because it's all irritated. Yeah Sounds highly likely But then so I was like Is it possible, but I really don't want to go to urgent care I don't want to like go deal with this. I just want him to come out, you know, can you put a little food on the um? Yeah, put a little food on the edge of your earlobe To draw him out to eat a little piece of cheese. Yeah, whatever they eat Maybe another dead Maybe a dead nat Glue it to your earlobe To lure him out to feast on it and then he'll get stuck in the glue I mean There's a tons of bugs all over here and then you wouldn't know if they just came from around the room or out of your ear

1:49:42I wouldn't you'd probably end up attracting some to live in your ear. I know God Does light do anything like could you shine a light at night? I can't I don't think you have Nothing's coming out and um But once you think something's in your ear it is really it's a racket. It is it's like crazy making yeah And I and that's blood over to your elbow. Is that what you want to say? Oh no There's just mosquitoes all over this fucking city and I'm all bit. I hate that. Oh, but you know, it was fun So I went I always I praise Cara. I love Cara. Yeah, Cara does sometimes have mosquitoes. Well, it's outdoor Oh, I'm talking about inside. Okay I think I don't know what are featured in there that they're breeding in or something

1:50:42Not inside but right outside there is a little well there is outdoor eating some of you with the doors are Opening yeah, I think doors are opening and closing. There is a water feature outside that I wish they'd Fick it all They're doing their best but for some reason there's a lot of this cutus And last year this is a thing. This isn't just this year and so last year I used to come with all those bracelets Oh, yeah, bug we're pal and brain. Yeah, I used to keep them in my car and then I would just cover myself in it This is actually a advertisement for Cara because if it's you know if you have to deal with mosquitoes and you still want to go It's a testament to what a great place it is. It really is. Yeah, but this year I bought a spray Because I did research and it said that deep the pop the the chemically popular one that is fine I'm fine. I want to use it like I want to use I love deep. Yeah, yeah, so but I read in an article that it does have the same effectiveness As this other thing that's like more natural. I wish I don't trust but it said percentage wise. It's the same as deep. Okay

1:51:47So I got that yeah And I've been bringing that with me to car and spraying it all over like going camping. Yeah, it is I have a spring and it's strong like it smells really strong One time I was with Anna and I was like you need this and I just sprayed it at her and she hate she really hated that She's part mosquito Oh About that. Yeah, she might be part mosquito. Oh my god. Okay. This is a good way for me to test. Yeah, it's like vampires. Yeah But garlic everywhere and they react to poori she was more upset because she thought maybe got in her martini what I'm allergic to garlic And you stay up a lot at night for oh Oh, how do you like the taste of blood? Fine Anyway, um, so yesterday I was at car editing and I had my skido spray and I This is hilarious to bring the skido spray to a restaurant really is something I spray to all over

1:52:50Um, and what did they had it next to the toothpicks at like the whole stand? No, so they he The bartender did come up in before I took my spray out and he said just see if you want any of this mosquito spray He said it can get really but he's like it's been kind of people have been getting bit so I bought this And I was like well not to worry I have my own I know this isn't a great indoor company it as you said you would do a restaurant and they say would you like bear spray? Because sometimes beers are in the restaurant. They do come in sometimes Listen, okay, this gets a little crazier. So I spray it all over and then I look over someone's come in and it's still early-ish Uh And it's Leslie Bitt. Oh great who I've never met yeah, not a friend of the pot yet She should be yes

1:53:51Her partner is exactly so she's sitting next to me and I never do this. I don't I again Not really in keeping with my pms pmdd, but I was feeling friendly. Yeah, frisky Yeah, and I was like hey, I have this mosquito spray Um if you want it because there's a lot of fun I said because there are there are mosquitoes in here Is she was like wait what? Haha, of course She's like thermos and then she was like what what's happening in like I can be a butterflies instead like I would be way better I know to replace them with butterflies Um, she's like what's going on with lost angelism is keto and I was like I know it's horrible But just you know if you want it and so I put it there she she sprayed it on herself Um, and she was like thank you and I and I said I'm Monica and she said oh hi, I'm Leslie and I said I I

1:54:54Do armchair expert. Yeah, I said I do armchair expert with with DAX we interviewed your sweet partner and she was like oh my god Yes, she was like I know you she was like and then she brought up something I specifically said on that episode Which was which was Sam rock well for people who don't remember uh talked about how You went on safari you guys are not going on safari. Yeah, yeah, and he said you know like you Were both so alert and aware of all the animals everywhere. Yeah, you you guys were so aware and he was like laughing because She was like Leslie's Leslie's just sitting there so calm not not thinking twice and I said yeah Because she lives in a world where she's used to predators you don't And he told her that when he got home He was like I've been thinking about this and and and so she brought that up and she thought it was really good Nice um, so I liked that and anyway, we started chatting for so long and so I love her and I want to invite her on the pod

1:55:57Okay, did either of you buy each other's meal? No, okay. She was about to have a meat like a meeting a meeting So we just chat until her did you eat stop on their meeting? No, no, I wanted to but yeah, of course I had work to do okay So my headphones were in sure Stay tuned for more armchair expert If you dare It was a fun meat cue Yeah, all because of mosquitoes really this makes me think christmas is just on a flight home I don't think I should out them because I don't know if it's public knowledge, but she was on a flight home from Paris and she saw a Mutual friend oh friend of the pod Who is flying home from white lotus? Max Yeah, is that public knowledge? Yeah, no, it's public knowledge. He's in white lotus. Oh, they're max. I don't know I don't want to do anything. Yeah, I got so happy he's gonna be on the Oh, you didn't know that it's a big it's so exciting. Yeah, I don't really follow much casting news

1:57:02I guess can't wait love max. I can't wait for the next season obviously Come on, I'd like to be on weightloss me too. Yeah, let's we've said it here You've heard it here from our lips to the you could be your friends with or you know Mike white You've worked with him. I have worked with Mike white I don't think that gives me an edge, but I have worked with There is I love Mike white. I'll say that. I love him. Yeah, I don't know me loves me, but I love he I love Listen, I'm really I'm not jealous of you of anything. Oh, huh, but I'm jealous of you For that getting to work with him. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, but it was in an actor to actor capacity It wasn't something he had written that would be different. Oh, right. Yeah, it was just two actors. Oh, I thought Oh, I must be thinking of something Then I'm not jealous. Yeah, there you go Anywho so speaking of white men. Oh, right white lotus white man max is white. Yeah

1:58:09Um attractive being an attractive white man. That's better. No, and it is part of this So I started watching traders, which I don't know about traders. Oh, Dex. I Traders is a big deal. Okay. It's very I apologize that I don't know. Okay. Thank you Um, it's it's highly watched reality TV and won the Emmy. Yeah, we watch it. You watch it. Yeah Okay. Yeah, we love traders. It's so good. I feel way less bad than it's a reality show I don't want to tell a reality. I know, but you like you know survivor. You don't watch it But I know of it. That's true. So you need to just know that because it's yeah Um, but anyway, uh, I've never watched it yet. I know and people love it and stuff, but it hasn't been I also don't watch reality TV. So I was like, I don't think it's gonna be for me, but then Got to be in my bonnet and I decided to start and so there's a new season out now So I started with this new season. Yeah, and I caught up to where It's week to week. So I caught up. I

1:59:10I'm invested. So it's a real life where wolves and villagers slash mafia, which I think most people have played one of those two games and this season is In quotes normal people but the other seasons are Celebrities, but a lot of these celebrities are also from the reality TV world. Yeah, right survivor or real housewives or Anyway, it's so fun. So I watched this new one and then I went back and I watched the last season. I watched the whole thing Uh-huh And I love it, but I was getting so mad because Spoiler yeah, well, yeah, there's so much deception and spoiler So if anyone is gonna go back and want listen to watch season four Skip ahead, okay, or pause. No, I think I've skipped ahead I pause again. You hate when I'm delivered. You were right back where you the winner is this guy from love island robber Okay, so he's a traitor from the beginning rob are is so

2:00:13hot okay, he is Insanely hot. Yes. Yeah, and what makes them hot? I'm gonna hear the breakdown Well, do you want to see a pit Rob? Do you want to put it? I want to hear what you think is hot? Okay Physically, he's just so hot his face is gorgeous face houses physique. Do you care? I think his physique is good Although that's not sticking out as much, but I think he seems he seems tall-ish from what I can tell yeah Um got great hair. Oh great. Just a beautiful face And he wears kind of fun outfits like Like Ryan Hansen. No, like like he wear he wore like a sweater vest with nothing under it That's abnormally a very douchey move. I think he Could be he's on love No shirt cardigan is I loved it That's great. Well, no, I have like hearts on it like it was almost like when you wore the sweater that pene gave you

2:01:16Yeah, yeah, but I was like feminine yeah, okay, and it's like showed confidence. Okay. Yeah, just no shirt underneath That's like generally I know And like more advantage shirt once and it was kind of tight and so he is a Trader and at first when I first meet him. I'm like a love island like this guy and he's set. Okay There is Very angular features real strong chance. Yep. Exactly. He's real defined nose not not bulbous like mine It's not he doesn't have like a clowns horn on the end of his That's not Delta got to squeeze it in the other day and it was like she was just got way to it like it became one of her fucking stuffies or Fidgets, you know, yeah, and I just remember this trick you would do in junior high where you'd ask someone to hold their tip of their nose I forget the premise, but you can really easily turn the whole tip your nose purple. Oh, okay So then I had to tell her I'm like on you can squeeze any part of my face

2:02:18Just not the tip of my nose I'm afraid it's gonna be a big purple bruise It's used up in a hard time of course resisting. Yeah, cuz it's just a clowns No, because you said it specifically so then for her of course you know She just was just found her way to it. The tip is the most fun part to squeeze. Yeah mine is definitely Me, you know, you get even me. I get all five fingers, you know, they're not touching each other when I hold it It's like size of a racquet ball. Oh, no, it's funny. It's great. Okay. Yeah Yeah, I'm not complaining. Okay, so Rob are is Is classically attract classically trained in the art of Train Level of attraction. Yeah, yeah, and ever less it was so for me normally that is not my type Cuz I do it. I'm like, okay, like do you see pretty boy? There's no way you have a personality. Yeah, and he's from love Island. So I'm definitely like yeah fuck boy Okay, but then he's like nice to people and

2:03:23And like soft kind of soft spoken and then he makes friends with people that I like but like in a real way like he says Like I don't want to kick this person off Yeah, yeah, yeah, he's got a heart of gold Yeah, and he keeps he's like pretending he's from Alabama and he's like kind of playing this like I'm in this dumb Guy and he's not cuz he also playing chess the whole time so I'm like And he's a traitor. He's bad, right and this whole group of people get so fucking played by Rob are sure And it is shocking to watch I mean it's shocking and that it's just like Charisma. It's just so obvious like it's so real that this hot tall kind Kind in quotes that's right. He is tricking. Yeah, it's always my issue with Well, he's not acting like he's like yeah, although he did stick up for his um he stuck up for his best friend in the house Who's gay? Okay, um, and it was hot. There's an ally. Yeah, yeah, and like

2:04:29So anyway, I'm just then I'm starting to get furious right because then he you felt betrayed Well, even though I knew the whole time he was a traitor. Oh, yeah, okay, so yeah, it's not a mystery to you Yes, that's what's fun about the show you know the whole time. Yeah, so you're seeing A people like Yeah, you know, you're kind of like no And like very very smart people the smartest people in the house are like it could never be robbed like they're saying it That's happening on million dollar secret the one show I do like but I would argue none of them are very good at like Like soon as they have the million dollars they crumble they look at be like so convincing when they're but it's like the amount of pressure Once you have the million is pretty funny Well, yeah, and then so rob art turns on a fellow trader pretty early, okay, and I that I was like Fuck you You're having a real ride over that I hated that and then he did it again to the other trader and I was like This

2:05:32He is a girlfriend. Oh anyway, yes, the girl at the end I know okay, so that's the main betrayal. So he has this buddy who's also from love island a different season or So they like bought and she's just like gorgeous Girl more moira moira. Okay Moira, I think you smell something Cuz I don't know if it's moira or more. Oh, yes, it's not a hard moira. I think it's moira. Yes She's Irish. She's in a full leather cat suit Yeah, she is great fashion and style and she's very hot and so they are best buddies in the house and poor girl just getting Lade she got played and it was so sad cuz she kept saying like it's so hard for me to let my guard down I've been cheated on so many times my truck. I don't it's very hard for me to trust people She's saying this throughout and yet she refuses to see Rob as a possible

2:06:35Trader at at towards the end of the season people are like I think it's Rob people are starting to say it And she's like she's going down the ship It can't be and he makes her pinky promise something and oh no no And he betrays her well, he had to do in the game the point is to win the game Tax right isn't that the point? I think I haven't seen it, but I'd imagine the point is to win the game. I Don't enter a game like that if you're not okay. I hate it. Do you still like him or no? No, I'm oh you're mad. Well, I just don't know what to think it's more. You don't trust him, but you kind of love him I hate it what he did moira. Okay, she was so fragile and then I then I felt so bad because I was like she used to watch this and Watch herself. They should probably have a little more PTSD than people might get I know it's a great show. Okay, I'll check it out, but that sounds like the kids would like it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Calvin loves it

2:07:37Okay, great. Okay, some facts some facts from I think my favorite guess we've ever had on I've talked about it to everyone. He is dude. I did Back to the Jack Black thing. I did I made him listen To 20 minutes about Guillermo Dottoro yesterday at the concert like you told him about I was like oh my god I interviewed Guillermo Dottoro and I just kind of stopped telling him fascinating things about him He has seen his notebooks. Oh, yes. Yes, I could not he has the same feeling we do he's like each page needs to be taken out surgically in like frames. Yes, and protect it but in the Smithsonian. Yes. Yes. I Could not believe we got to see those and hold it and hold it like hold his heart. Yeah That's what it felt like and his brain and his heart which are one thing. Yeah, so pure And we put it on the table and your feet were up like this and I got real panicky. I did too I moved it very quickly. I saw it was too close

2:08:39For a second. I was like really feeling Don't be cocky-dacks don't overestimate your athletic prowess here. Yeah, it was just such a beautiful episode He's I couldn't what he gave us so many nuggets of wisdom. Oh, it's incredible It's incredible. He's a philosopher. He's an artist. He's a painter. He's a writer I just I love one of the best directors ever lived. I know I can't think anyone that's ever been better than him visually. I mean Tim Burton is you know He's in he's in that same space, but like the visuals of fucking Frank and Stein The world building because it's also like the The visuals are unbelievable, but the his stories are also so beautiful and moving and deep I cannot wait to see it in 3d. I know saying. Yeah, same. Okay, so that was just Very special. I don't think I've felt like that after we left an interview in a very one Maybe Ki Ki Kwan was maybe the last one. Yeah, the way I said it is

2:09:41Bill Gates holistic understanding of everything on planet earth is something that I've never observed and anyone else like it's just The totality of his knowledge is so impossible. It's like really hard to comprehend Mm-hmm And and I feel this exact same way about Guillermo and it's not specifically Bill's saying knowledge. It's like Also knowledge is like it's like his like his the mounting knows about ours and fucking writing But that's not what shining through what shining through is a holistic view of the universe Yeah humanity. Yeah. Yes. Yes a deep deep intrinsic understanding of humanity. Yeah. Yeah. He's he's outrageously special. Yeah, I too We I think we text each other afterwards. Would you we haven't done a while just like whoa that was a that was mind blowing Yeah, so lucky So lucky we didn't sit on this for too long which is fine But when he said that when he had that experience when he was a kid and he saw monsters and he he need to go to the bathroom

2:10:43And he told them if you let me go to the bathroom. I'll be your friends forever Yeah, he is he is he is his friend a friend of the monsters He literally is So moving Really handled it. He's picture him as a little boy and you're like I it must have been hard to have that enormous brain I know what's happening. Yeah, essentially. Yeah Reading in the encyclopedias. Yes, I thought there's library. Yeah Okay, you said that warm buffet drove an old Cherokee. Yeah, jeep Cherokee with wood grain on the side I don't know why my Google doesn't know about that. Okay, it should there's a your Google should know that there's a Profile of him on 60 minutes in the 90s and there's many shots of him driving that old clunker. Okay Yeah, because this is saying Cadillac XTS Cadillac DTS

2:11:43He may in the mid 2020s or mid I don't know how you say that the 2010s Oh, he might have that Cherokee might have died But he he still lives in the same like 3000 square foot brick ranch. Yes, that is Was driving a very old Cherokee in that segment. All right. Well, I don't know what to say. I never forget a car I that's true. Yeah, that is true. That's one of your gifts. It's like Molly in the outfits Molly McNairney in the office. That's right. Okay. I looked up what are the most family oriented cultures? Mm-hmm cultures that are deeply family oriented typically prioritize collective well-being multi-generational living and lifelong financial or social interdependence over individual autonomy Regions and countries noted for strong family ties south and southeast Asia I can I can say that's true Latin America it's a southern Europe Italy Spain

2:12:44and the Middle East and North Africa so really everyone but Northern white European No, it doesn't have China Like it doesn't have what's that Asian South and South East Asia India the Philippines Indonesia. Okay. Oh, okay. Okay Um, so yeah, oh, okay interesting. Oh, I was looking up longest standing ovation at film festivals Uh-huh longest recorded standing ovation at a major film festival belongs to Naza which directed by you've all Abraham and Rachel Zor which received a 25-minute ovation This year at the Venice Film Festival. Okay 25 and he was 22 right yeah historically Can how the longest standing benchmarks for the endurance clapping Durance clapping Kill after 15 minutes of clapping That's really funny uh led for two decades by Giammar del Toro's pans lab

2:13:45A 22 minutes third is Fahrenheit 9-11 Michael Moore. Okay. I can 20 minutes 2004 sentimental value. Oh, we love that Love that movie can 2025 19 minutes. Oh How do people know when to stop? I don't know I Don't that's weird like if you've gone 19 how how don't how are we going three hours? So they do know like I want to give this one the most or Like almost the most do you think there's there might be a timer? I can't imagine there is well, I mean someone's timing it for sure. Yeah, but I don't think there's a big Scraping on display. No, okay. Well, I find this interesting Unfortunately, what if it was like an analog dial like a watch face and then it had along the way different movies As the like yeah, yeah, like the pressures rising and then maybe they're like I don't want it to be longer than pans lab Yeah, and then right before it someone goes you know finny or whatever they

2:14:50Finney fin a I think it's just fin fin fin a I think I think it's just f.i.n. Okay, I think Um Okay, I you know, I went to can obvi not obviously I think just because I've talked about a lot I went to can study abroad Yeah, so you're in Cali no me and Anthony you and Cali were in London at a program. Yeah, we went to the breakup We didn't go to the premiere. We stood outside But no, I went to can For study abroad and that was in 2008 and you know, we had a big fatigue stick it inside it was super fun So I was looking to see if any of the ones I went to got up there but Where are you a part of any standing ovation? Yeah, there's almost always a standing ovation man. I couldn't go I couldn't go this is that might issue with concerts and on course like any kind of whatever I love that course joy I hate it. Okay, it's pageantry. It's fine. Okay. Okay. I mean a garenmo deserves it, but

2:15:57The notion that this band you know they're gonna play two more songs But you have to beg them to come out to play the two more songs is like just play the two's just play all the songs Okay, okay now unfortunately I wasn't part of any of these tops which is upsetting yeah But I'm just double checking okay real quick Not in your eyes and crossing your teeth That was I saw Matt Damon At he was there for uh I think Che was he in Che Yeah, he was he was right. Yeah, it's wrong. He played Che Um and I so that was so exciting because I got in that one So I was just sitting amongst him hi up. Yeah, that was a long movie like five hours I saw so many movies obviously over the course of how many hours was Che It was a two-parter something like five. I probably only saw one part and Benizio d'Otoro place Che is that

2:16:59Benizio all of those movies really blur like I don't remember anything because I was just seeing like three movies a day Yeah, it's too many it was a lot um Okay, well, I didn't get to experience okay well 20 minute one better that you got to sit in a room with garenmo for two hours Much better than 22 minutes of clapping. I agree. Yeah, I agree Oh man when you talked about How the people stole his puppets and then put poop everywhere yeah And then you said oh they went ape now I understand ape shit Throwing shit everywhere yeah going talka yeah, yeah, yeah, I've never thought about that. Oh you have it. Okay, you knew that yeah Um my favorite is when they chuck it at viewers of the um At the zoo yeah, I because a lot of people don't know about chimp behavior and when you're at the chimps of the mahala here at the LA zoo You'll see one shit in his hand and I know time to get behind something but other people don't oh my god

2:18:06I mean, I don't mind that because I'm like This is what you get kind of. Oh, yeah, I don't mind that they do it. They should yeah if I was Chimp in a zoo you do it. If I was incarcerated at a zoo I would throw my shit every chance like exactly I agree Um, all right that is all okay wonderful. What a blessing. I agree. I'm gonna agree more. All right. Love you. Love you