Hour 3: Jeff Passan on the Mariners Never-ending Nightmare

0:00At QVC, shopping is more than just checking out. It's discovering something new every day. Start with today's special value. Then, explore exciting finds across the brands and categories you love. From beauty and fashion to home, culinary and outdoor living. Shop now at QVC.com. From the Quantum Fibre Studio, this is Brock & Salk on Seattle Sports. I don't read internet yet. Take mobile phones and Brookwire. You are. And Brook you are. Now, here are your hosts, Brock Eward and Mike Salk. Let me just be clear, yes, bowling is a class, but it was just to fill the... There was like a required, like an athletic required, a PE required. It wasn't a full class.

1:01I didn't get a grade in bowling, but it was available as a class, like, well... You did that at Pomona? Yeah. Only for a PE requirement in college. There was for us? Huh. You have petroleum engineering? No way to PE requirement. Yeah. Sure. I mean, Pomona is a liberal arts school. They ask you, you have to take ten different sections of... Oh my god, it was exhausting trying to deal with all of their requirements. That's what a liberal arts school does. One of them was a PE requirement, so I took bowling. All right, Brock, this is not a quarterback controversy. I want to be very clear about that. There is no quarterback controversy, but... Are we doing this instead? Like Sarah McLaughlin. Are we building a mystery, Brock? Is that what's happening here? That's the best I can find for a mystery song. My high school girl and took me to a Sarah McLaughlin indigirls concert. Oh, that sounds awful. Peer and Seattle. I think I would have gone like Scooby Doo music or something.

2:02I mean, yeah, I got... there's also the Beatles. The body of Jacob and his baby, Jordan's coming to take you home. This isn't really a mystery song. And if you today know, this is where we're building a... We're kind of building a mystery of sorts here with Sam Donald and his hip slash... But slash... It is a very confusing injury. He's in a lot of pain, although it didn't look that bad on the field. He doesn't have a card or anything. He's able to get off the field and walk off under his own power. But then he said Harborview, the entirety of the night, and by all accounts in some level of pain once he was there. They get the imaging done. We know it's not too serious. They say it's not broken. It's not a fracture. But then there are some question about whether or not there was an issue with the hip socket. Or is it a laborer? Or is it the hip laborer? Or is it a glutes?

3:03It just... is it one week, two weeks, four to six weeks? It feels like a lot of... It's exacerbated as well, because usually in the NFL, you don't have to wait like 24 to 48 hours. But with a Wednesday game, chat with Mike on Thursday, Dana's still being collected. And then they're off Friday, Saturday, Sunday. Like you just, they've been out of sight, out of mind. With everybody else playing, we'll kind of get a bonus Monday, I would think, in today, you know, with the boys coming back. And maybe we'll know a little bit more. But then yeah, there's conflicting reports as well. There's a glazer saying it's more of a butt issue. Yes, so here's Jay Glazer. No matter what, the hip injury is not good, right? But this is a better possible scenario. Because initially, they thought he actually fractured that hip socket, which probably would have put him out for the year. Instead, there's a tendon injury in the glute. So here's what's happening. There's still trying to gather information so much so that they're getting four second opinions. Which I guess would be second, third, fourth. Yeah, this is for the second. To figure out exactly what the time cable will be,

4:06and what the plan of a tackle before this. So he's going to miss next week. We have no idea after that. How do you feel about a tendon versus a muscle? I don't know. Okay. It's not a ligament. Every body is different. It's going to respond to that differently too. Right. I mean, do they have to fly him over to Germany for one of those second opinions? Like they did for Sydney Rice to the Regennekein Circle way back when? Or was that Switzerland? Part of the circle? Yeah, we have us. We have one. We have one. Right. Do they need to get in this really cadaver hip like they had to do for Javon Walker back in the day? I mean, like, there's a lot of options probably on the table. And while Ian Rappaport is who's late less credible? Ian Rappaport or Mike Floreo? Out of curiosity. Who's opinion, who's report? Would you believe less? Ian Rappaport says one to two weeks. And then Mike Floreo says four to six weeks,

5:06according to a source that he has. Jay Glazer says they're gathering four second opinions. I mean, I think Ian and Chefty are in a different group in Floreo. Floreo flirts with some of the news breaking stuff. But he's more of a daily opinionist. Right. He and Sims do their show and everything else. But of all of the people that actually do the reporting, Ian Rappaport's the one who gets stuff wrong the most. Right. So I mean, trying to, trying to determine what the heck is real. That's why I said we're kind of building a mystery here because there's no, there's no one clear, obvious answer. So how do you feel about a, how do you feel? The biggest piece of information is four seconds. Just a complete and total disrespectful. Oh no. And then to do that in the middle of a live interview after you've already screwed me once, go yourself, dude, you get stuff wrong all the time. And everybody knows it.

6:07Let's chat, dude, some Washington a few years ago after Ian Rappaport bailed on him. Yeah. He's a nerd and a suede said. Yeah, he was not happy about you get stuff wrong all the time. And everybody knows it. The biggest piece of info, quite honestly, are all the second opinions. Because they got brilliant folks in house, right? You really do. They're team in house is so good at what they do. But this is kind of such a, I think a unique deal that you've got to go find specialists that know this situation. I got of all the injuries through all the years. I am an injury expert talk. But this is one that kind of befuddles me too because you don't see it. Right? When was the last time we've ever had a player with a tendon ligament but issue? I can't remember one. Right. We're used to hamstring. We're used to MCL. You're used to knee. High ankle. You're used to lisp. Frank. You're used to broken bones. I sort of know how I know how that works. Yes.

7:07This falls more in the line of some of the spinal stuff that you got to like be careful of because everybody is just different. Now, the spinal stuff can be sadly. And unfortunately, we've seen it with Avril and with Chancellor like career shortening stuff. It's awful. It stinks. But when it comes to like the difficult part to diagnose and then even more difficult to project, like where is this going to go from here? That is why you seek I think all of those opinions from hopefully some experts in the field that can help see them in the team figured out. And then the biggest thing will be evidence. Right? Is he going to go on IR? If he goes on IR, Mike Florios, right? And it's going to be a four to six week kind of injury. If he avoids IR, then I think the Glazer, Rapp report, Shifty, you know, that Pelisaro, the whole like, yeah, he's probably going to miss this week. And then it will be a week to week thing from that. So yeah, kind of a kind of a bummer. It's not just a bummer. It's mysterious.

8:07I think that's the thing that just sort of gets me. If the Mariners this weekend were a horror show, this thing is a mystery. Right? I say that word so good. Horror. I can't say anything. I know it makes you very nervous. It does. It's one of those things with like an asterisk and Jaguars. Some of those things I fixed. That one I still don't do. That's for the Mariners weekend. Right? Sort of how the Mariners weekend felt at times, bro. Maybe even this one. Oh, one of your favorites. All right. We'll deal with that in greater detail coming up. Jeff Passon will join us at 830 or rare Monday pass in appearance. I've even double checked with him. So Jeff will join us here coming up in about 20. And then we'll react to what he had to say soon after that. Then flipping back to the sea ox at 930 with our friend Hawk Blogger, Brian NEMHOWSER. So I feel like the show's basically done. Like we got all those things left to go. It's a reaction Monday, power by some Kwame Casino in hotel. And we'll give you guys everything you need to know next.

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11:10We go, we go, we go, we go. Ask your prescriber about We Govi, some Maglatide Injection 2.4mg, a GLP1. Call 1-8334 We Govi or visit We Govi.com to view the Medication Guide and to learn more about We Govi. Why wait? We Govi. Trick or treat! No one's home. I see you inside eating a Reese's. Why do people ignore trick or treaters? Do they not have treats or do they not want to share their Reese's? Perhaps it's true, everything happens for a Reese's. Need to know. 15 minutes passed every hour with Brock & Salk. Presented by Marquis Data. Here's what you need to know. First. Yeah, a weekend of huge disappointment for the Mariners. And it's funny, it shouldn't have even mattered, Brock.

12:12The weekend shouldn't have mattered. The Mariners should be so far out of it that these games should be meaningless. But they weren't. The Astros continue to give them a shot. They got swept this weekend by the rays. Texas is not doing anything. Cleveland's not doing much of anything. Like everyone who is a contender ahead of the Mariners is just sort of floatin' along or worse. And so if you could have just beaten the A's, a terrible team with a negative 200 run differential this year, missing almost all of their good players. You're right back in the thick of this thing, two or three games out. Instead, you get walked off while you had a one run lead on Friday night. And then you get walked off with a one run lead again on Sunday. Stretch and the three one pitch. Swing in a high flight ball. Deep to right center field. Hands on going back to the one-tea track to the wall. Good by baseball and the A's, walk it off for the second time in three days.

13:14Lawrence Butler with a walk off to run home run. Here in the bottom of the ninth inning. And the A's, one at eight to seven this afternoon. It is one thing when you get walked off in the tenth. Like a team's got a, you know, you don't score on the top of the tenth. And then they drive in the run or whatever. And you're like, yeah, I felt inevitable. When you score. When you score and then you get walked off twice with those home runs. And Julio had a nice weekend. And Julio, I wish you would have done this three months ago, maybe with his BP guy and everything else. But he is delivered, Randy is delivered. But then you're starting pitching doesn't Bryce walks five more guys. What happened? There were, there were months where Bryce Miller didn't walk a guy. And he walks five with a hit by pitches well. So he only goes five. And it's like a miracle to get through the fifth. I mean, Dan kept him in. And I think you could hear Goldie's voice like when you got the lefty here for Butler. But when you've got Munoz, I know Munoz was down two days earlier than that. But I mean, just like, there's only so many guys. Rocker's not particularly effective.

14:15And Bizarro has been a total mess. Burgess had no idea on any given day where the ball's going. True. He's no idea. Always been the case. And so, you know, right now you're trusting Munoz, Anthony Dominguez, Spire and Ferrer. And even that, and even those four iffy. And eventually you're asking Munoz to get five outs for you. He couldn't do it. And he was not the same pitcher when he came back out for the ninth as he was in the eighth. He had no command at that point. The ball was going all over the place. And the next thing you know, it's over the fence. And you've lost two out of three to it. Just a lousy ace team is really sad. And then you made mental mistakes along the way too, which is the thing that continues to drive me even crazier. Two mental mistakes. Throwing the ball in the left field, allowing a runner to go to third, which allow it, which forced Munoz into the game. And then, uh, Parade, I get caught off second base. Where are you going? Are you going to race over to third with your Ricky Henderson leg speed? You're a freaking catcher. Stand on second base. Start acting like it.

15:15Michael Roy had a really nice weekend. Las Montes hit. Ridiculous. Oh, Ron. His home run's been the best part of this season. So, and right now feels like the only good part. Just so so frustrating. Five back in the division. Six in the wildcard Brock. Twelve games left to play. They start in Anaheim. Three games tonight. Here's the second thing you need to know is going on with Sam Darnold. Here's Ian Rapa, who says, no, it's not a hip. It's a, it's a glute. It's my understanding is Sam Darnold is going to be out next week. And then we'll see. So, probably a couple games with his description given to me. We will see if he's able to get there for a week, three against the commanders. We've been calling it a hip injury. My understanding is it's actually a glued injury. So, Darnold heard his, heard his butt. It's a muscular injury not considered to be major. Big pods before saying he heard his butt.

16:15Yeah. Very uncomfortable saying. Like what does that mean? Like the chunky glute muscle? Does it mean the ligament, the tendon around it? This is a glute, right? That's the gluteus maximus? Connected to the hip bone. I know, but Jay Glazer says it could be, well, not just a glute muscle, but a glute tendon? Which definitely sounds worse. And Mike Floreo says four to six weeks. I don't know what to believe. Hopefully we'll find out more soon. And they may not know. I think my guess is that this is a bit of a mystery to them as well. It's a complicated part of the body. It's not an injury that we see all the time in the NFL. It's not as typical as some of the others that we see, you know, every couple weeks. So, we just kind of have to wait. In the meantime, getting an opportunity to watch a ton of football this weekend. Cardinals did win. They beat the chargers. The giants look good last night. Buffalo wins in Houston. Vikings came back. They looked down and out of that game. They come roaring back to beat Green Bay. Bears dropped almost 60 points.

17:16Ravens, Ravens looked like they were as good as anybody. But then they lost both of their wide receivers in the game. Chargers going to charge your cowboys are going to cowboy. Browns are going to brown. Browns are certainly going to brown. They were awful. Yeah, were they down 31, nothing or whatever the score was in the first half? I mean, they were just awful. Here's their head coach Todd Monk in on his quarterback situation. I'd rather just talk about today because I haven't had time to even look at the tape. I mean, I'm sure it's hell not firing me. I'm not firing our staff. I'm not giving it all of our players. So, he happens to be one of 53. And, uh, however many practice squad guys we got. And our staff, he's one of that. So, we'll evaluate everything. But to just say that emotionally here at the end when we're, you know, he was just in play good enough and didn't coach well enough. Ah! Nah, that was a browns fan after the game. I guess sorry about that. I don't know where that came from. So bad. Here's the third day you need to be a browns fan. You need to be a browns fan. What terrible existence. Huh.

18:17Huskies? Hey, not great. Not great, Brock. Do you know? There's struggles so much you wearing a different purple today. Do you know? Are you wearing different purple? Every man in the wild can. Get tripped into the little apple. You know, I've always been one of my favorite places. I know. Do you like their color? Oh, well, you're sort of colorblind. But they have a cool color. That purpleish blue is a blue or purple. It's purple. It's kind of, but it's a much bluer purple though. Is it the Huskies purple? I would say. Don't you think? I think so. It's a much bluer purple. You're asking a colorblind guy that can't tell blue from purple. Hmm. I can't tell that. That's hard for you. Yes. I can tell you everything. Blue let it says it's a signature royal purple. A royal purple. Yeah, that's about right. One of the Huskies purple. A little deeper. With a gold. You have DeBon's not having much fun, man. I know a little bit of the feeling. I know what it was like to hand the ball to Cory Dillon and Roshan Chihi and sort of Fred Coleman and Jerome Pathan and Cam Clilland and Olik Roots and like NFL guys Benjelson.

19:18Like, I know that existence. And it's no shot. shot I got to play or you know thrown into my last year with a lot of freshmen. And they ended up being great players and different makers in their career. We went to a Rose Bowl, but yeah, it was, it was some hard like, not the separation. Like, where's my Denzel Boston? Like, where's my Roman Dunez? Where's my Jaylen McMillan? Where are my, they're not around. Nice. Where, where's my Roger Rosengarten? And Troy Fautanu and like, where are my guys? Like, they're all playing in the NFL and starting and making differences. Was I tried to leave? I think there was a little game of, hey, make sure you think he didn't want to be here. He tried to be elsewhere and unfortunately didn't work out for him. That is everything you need to know. A quarter pass to every hour here in the Brock and Salk show. 253 says, great show guys. But what would it take for Brock to never say chunky glute muscle again? Yeah, I didn't have a problem with that. What was wrong with chunky glute muscle? That wasn't too bad. Brock said so many worse things than that. That's true.

20:18That's nothing. That's a walk in the park. Compared to some of the other things the Brock said over the years. Chunky glute muscle. Some of the things that I say it and then you look at Mora like you can't say that. Well, there was the one last week where you're talking about the different types of love. That was very inappropriate in every way. Don't ever say whatever you said yesterday last week. That was that one. That was a horse ride. Remember that area where the horses went potty. There was some kind of showers there and I can't say that. Like, there's some things that, yeah, the minute I say, even know what that was. I don't even remember that. Well, I can't. I'm not going to say that clearly not. All right. But you know what? Let's just, let's just all calm down. Jeff Passons can join us next. I think we need to hear what Jeffrey has to say. He was pretty pointed last week and I would imagine that would be even more significant next on Brock and Salk. At QVC, shopping is more than just checking out. It's discovering something new every day. Start with today's special value.

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24:34to be true next year because it doesn't feel like this year is going to be the beginning of that big run. They are five games back after two miserable losses again this weekend to a really bad A's team. Jeff Passon joining us now. Good morning, Jeffrey. Hey, they won 19 to one. They did. They did. Differential. They had to plus, uh, plus 15 run differential in this series. Why aren't you looking on the bright side, Sock? I think because they lost two out of three to a team with a negative 200 run differential. I think that had something to do with it that's missing all of its good players and still walk them off twice. And not your garden variety tie game walkoffs. Up one walkoffs, which really are worse. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And coming off of another series against the A's in which they lost three or four and, you know, needed a brilliant pitching performance to salvage that fourth.

25:36It's funny to me because every year I fall for the same trap. And I look at strength of schedule going into September and act like that matters. And it should like in theory, the Mariners had a cake walk or a relative cake walk through September ahead of them. And they bungled it. Simple as that. Jeffrey, for some years, you have applauded the process of the organization. And I think or even earlier this year talked about, you know, out of the 30 organizations in totality with 180 players in it and everything else. This is a top five organization kind of through and through. Does this season challenge any of your thought of their process? Yeah. I think I think it has to. Right? Like if process is rate. But outcome is ultimately the most important thing in sports.

26:39We can talk about how an individual loss here or there is not nearly as big of a deal as it might feel like as long as the process was sound. But ultimately, what's the point of process if not to get better outcomes? And if the better outcomes are coming, where have the flaws in the process been? And what have the Mariners not paid enough attention to? And most of all, how are they going to change? How are they going to adjust? That to me is going to be the most interesting part of 2026 for the Seattle Mariners. It's not the failures that they have, which have been manifold. It's the response to them and the ability to get back on track with what I still think is an extremely solid core. I don't think my assessment of their talent has necessarily changed all that much.

27:39But I think how they go about figuring out how to translate that talent into wins. That's going to say everything you need to know about this team and about the people who are in position to lead it right now. And it's just going to be interesting to me to see if those are the same people next year's there right now. All right, so let's walk through that. Do you think the manager is back next year? No. If he's not back, how much of the coaching staff do you think goes with him? Oh, because one thing, but until this year, one interesting thing about this coaching staff is that until this year, the pitching coaches were beyond highly revered, right? I mean, you're talking about two guys that are thought of league wide as being among the best. The pitching has fallen off this year, but it's been so good for so long. Could you be in a situation where you keep the pitching coaches, but you move on from much of

28:42the rest of the staff? Yes, you could, but I also think that if a manager who you want is coming in and he has a particular pitching coach or group pitching coach in mind to bring in, and you have to be open-minded to that at least, I think that would be a mistake. I do still think that the manager's pitching coaches do a good job. Results this year are notwithstanding, but I don't think anything guys should be off the table right now. Like that, that to me is where I'm going to land on this whole thing. That after a year like this where things have gone still bad in so many ways, you can't sit here and have any sacred cows. There are no sacred cows anymore. This year is a wake-up call for the organization where you still have all that talent that we've

29:42been talking about for years now, but who's going to be the person to get it out of them? There's going to be a person to find it and get the best out of the players who you have under contract long term. It's tough problem to solve. No question. If they do make that kind of a move, let's say they make a move at manager, but the front office remains intact. The last two managers hired by this front office, the only two managers hired by this front office, both had zero experience managing before they were hired. I would assume the next manager would have more experience. What would be out there this off-season? It's going to be interesting to see what exactly they do prioritize, because I think part of hiring a manager, it's indicative of what you think of yourself and your own stuff.

30:45If you're hiring somebody who does not have a whole lot of experience, inherently you're going to have more front office input. Sometimes it can be difficult to find in MLB managerial candidate, who has experience and doesn't want to use that and put that input in. So hiring a manager who's been around the block, it can be a tricky thing, because he comes with ideas and thoughts that may not align perfectly with what the organization has, but he might still be the best candidate for the job. I look if we're looking at guys who have been there, or are expected to be available right now. I don't think that Tory Levello is going to be back in Arizona. I think he's done a very good job there. I'm not sure that Joe Espada is going to be

31:46back in Houston. I think he's done a pretty good job there. Rockleball, Deli, and Minnesota led the twins to the postseason. I think he could be a good candidate. Of course, Alex Corden, don't think there's going to be that. Brandon Hyde, a couple of playoff runs with the Orioles. There are guys who have found success in recent years, who are going to be available. When we look at the managerial openings that they're going to be outside of Philadelphia, if not, Mattingley is not hired there long-term. I'm not sure there's better spot than Seattle. How much of that hiring do you have with the focus on your 40-man, on your 180-man, that you want somebody in that spot that has a real keen eye expertise and where with all to manage that roster versus when this started over eight, nine years ago?

32:49Yeah, I think all the focus is on the 40 at this point. Let the player develop, when people do the player development thing. Your job as a major league manager is to win major league baseball games right now, especially where the Mariners are in their development curve. They are firmly in win-now territory right now, which is where the great amount of the frustration I think over this season has been. For a long time, Mariners fans were conditioned to steer the worst and hope for the best. Now that has changed, or at least coming into this season, it was, hey, the best is here. Let's see what it looks like. Oops. If this is the best word, trouble. Getting back to that point of just feeling like a winning ball club, that to me is the priority of the next candidate. Somebody is going to be able to capitalize on

33:50what's there and do a better job making something out of it than Daniel Wilson's son. We're going to do a full expose tomorrow on all the challenges of this year. I think one of the biggest challenges you have for this year is you know what we've had veteran instead of coming here and struggled. There was winker, there was Wong, there was Paulic, there was Wright, Rob Reff Snyder this year, Donovan Solano. I mean, the numbers are staggering, but you didn't really invest much in any of those guys and it just didn't work with those veteran players. I think the challenge of this year is your pitching because for year after year after year after year, the rotation and even pieces of the bullpen have been elite and got a carrier, right? And pitching always wins. It's pitching, pitching, pitching. And this year, my goodness gracious, it just feels like the wheels have come off on so many as you look at the numbers and you look at the pitching fall off. What stands out, Jeff? Because this has not been all health related. I mean, last year was more health related. Last year was the, you know, the Bonespur in Bryce's elbow and Kirby a couple times on and off the Logan's first injury in his career. And like,

34:51what has happened to the staple of this organization, which has been their pitching this season? We talked for years guys about, I don't know if the mariners were wasting all these years of pitching health, but, you know, year after year, it seemed like they were getting 30 plus starts from five guys. And just don't see that very often. And, you know, part of, part of pitching is, teachers get hurt a lot. And it felt like there was some sort of inevitability to this that it was going to regress in some way. I didn't think it would be as severe as it's been, but I'll also acknowledge that when you're throwing hard as all of these guys do, it's tough to maintain that year after year consistently. And I think eventually there was going to be something like this.

35:53Now that doesn't mean that I don't trust the mariners. Pictures going forward. You know, look at what Brian was done this month. He's finally looked like himself, but figuring out how to get back to this place where you feel like you have five really good starters. I don't know who those five are going to be. Jeff, you talked about no sacred cows and making perhaps large changes. I think we know what that looks like off the field. What could that look like on the field in what will obviously be a funky off season, but even if you take away the funkiness of the expected lockout, what does major overhaul or major looking at everything look like for the major league roster? Well, let's look at the major league roster. I don't think Julio Rodriguez is going anywhere. I even if you were inclined to move him for any particular reason, I don't think you do it

36:57after the second half like he's had after, you know, who knows how much of this is concussion related. But it's not been good. Don't try to guy at his major in value. I don't think Cal Raleigh is going anywhere. I don't think Josh Naylor is going anywhere because I don't think anyone would take Josh Naylor. That contract, this being the first year of it, I hope I'm wrong about this. It doesn't look great right now. You know, the Mariners owe him $80 plus million for the next four years. So I don't think he's moving. And everyone else at this point, I mean, should anyone be off limits? That's just your question. I'll turn this cold down. Yeah, cold down. But no, of course, nobody else would be off limits. The question is, what do you do with someone like Randy Oroz Arana, who's been their best player on the field this year? He's obviously had some. He's not coming back. Okay. So you offer him the qualifying offer. You take the draft pick, JP Crawford,

37:58overing in JP Crawford back. And then how are you going about, you know, putting those pieces together? Are you going to give Las Montes a full time job? Michael Aroyo, Colt Emerson, like, are you are you flipping it that quickly to that many young guys? How do you go about that? I don't know that they have another choice. I mean, Brendan, Brendan Donovan will be back. And I imagine he will be penciled in as the third baseman. Colt Emerson will be back. And I imagine he will be penciled in as the shortstop. Colt Young is the second baseman. I don't know where Aroyo plays. Maybe you have him in a super utility role or maybe you put him in in field position and just move Donovan around because you know, he can play outfield as well. And I know I'm talking about Brandon Donovan as if he's going to be healthy, which how many stops and starts if we have this year four? Yeah, like that's that's been rough. But you can't walk into next season with that

39:01Brandon Donovan being a pretty central piece of it. He gave up good talent to go get him. He got him for one more year. I think he has to be part of that. Las Montes, I mean, yeah, I think he's full time next year, right? He's been the most fun part of this year. The three home run sees hit have been the three best moments of this Mariner season. I'm not even joking. The one in the middle, the 470 foot bombing hit over seven. That was incredible. Was unbelievable. I think a legitimate big picture question, Jeff is honestly about the veteran player in this market and how hard it is to sustain and travel. And I mentioned all those veteran names over the last four or five years. And those were kind of largely like one offs, right? I mean, you didn't commit a ton of money to those guys, but you did trade for them. And you certainly your analytics team counted on

40:01them between Solano, Ref's Night Award, Wong, Paul, like Winker. That's a negative four player in over 1100 of bats. Right? We talked about Taylor Ward last week and he had a couple hits over the last seven days or whatever, but it's just been these veteran players from the outside have just not worked. And I'm kind of curious as we watch JP Crawford really slow down and guys really slow down like how much of a challenge is there and being an older player in living in this market where you've got to travel over the course of the season, the way you do have to now travel with the inter league play the way it is. I, you know, Brock, I don't know that I have a way to quantify this. And we have seed older players in the past succeed in Seattle when the travel has been brutal then too. So I'm not going to say that that is impossible. It's interesting though as, you know,

41:07this is this is the first time I've actually maybe the first time someone just set it out loud and it's dawned on me that yeah, maybe as you get older the travel does become a little bit more difficult and your your body recovering. It just doesn't work exactly the same way. Things can happen when you travel you might forget your your contact case and I mean like you never know what's going to happen when you're traveling. Sometimes, sometimes give you really dangerous as you get older. Yeah, I got nothing that's why I come on the show. Watch for the for the insights in the bonbaugh. That's really funny. No, you're right. And Jeff right, they have had something Nelson Cruz certainly didn't slow down as he got older here and some other players. Yeah, you have to travel this schedule though. Yeah, you have to travel this

42:07much. I don't really. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, maybe they had a it wasn't quite as it wasn't quite as balanced. There are games in an aheim and I don't know. It's just a thought and certainly Naylor's body this year has been beaten to you know what? I really hope Jeff after this season ends, we do here. Yeah, Bryce is going to have to have surgery. Naylor's got a wrist deal that was bothering him. Kyle's got that thing never went away. I hope we hear some level of context. Why does that make you feel better? Absolutely. Explanation at least it explains while these guys were so bad. If they are so hurt that they can't be affected, they shouldn't be playing. Yeah, I've heard that one before though. I mean, like you can say that, but you know how ball players are at the end of the year. Sometimes you find out what was really going on and then they have their surgery and you may be right. They shouldn't have been playing, but they were and now at this point you kind of just have to roll with it. The other thing that I think though is you're talking

43:09about next year is, okay, you almost you almost skip over. Okay, well, Randy's not going to be there and JP's not going to be there. Okay, like I'm not necessarily disagreeing. Those guys are probably two of your three best hitters this year. Like you take those guys out of the lineup this year, you're essentially just the Dom Can Zone and Cole Young Mariners. I understand why you immediately move on from both, but how much risk is involved? Randy, Randy, Randy more than JP though, right? Yes. Yes, but their record with JP versus without him is pretty significant. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but they've just been a much better team when JP's there. He has a professional at bat. He takes pitches like he gets on base. Not that he's had a great year, but they do seem to play better when he's around. Okay, I don't know if that's positive or correlated, but I think that's a reasonable point to make.

44:14This is where it gets difficult, guys. This is where you ask yourself, are we going to be an organization that makes decisions based on how we think people feel when someone's around? Are we going to be an organization that makes decisions based on what the numbers tell us? And I think there's a reasonable mix to be found there. I don't think it can necessarily one or the other, but if it's going to be, give me the numbers. Well, Jeffrey, don't you have to be an organization that you know the identity that in a 10 second elevator conversation, you can say this is the identity of our club. And hasn't that been the challenge for the last two plus years that the identity that we associate with the front office is just not the same as the identity that I associate with the manager. They just seem like they're they're they have two different views on how to play the game baseball. Yeah, you know, it's funny. Back when AJ Hinch was

45:18first hired by the Arizona Diamondbacks, Josh Burns was asked, why would you hire somebody who who doesn't have the experience? Because Hinch had never managed before and he used the words organizational advocacy. And I mean, he was ripped at the time for that, but the idea of organizational advocacy that he was speaking of is that the philosophies and theories espoused by the front office are shared by the manager so that there's alignment from the front office down and from the manager's office back up. And if there are gaps there, that that's a real problem because you need a coherent and cohesive philosophy. And what was I'm trying to think? What was it that you identity that you used earlier? Explain to me what kind of identity you'd like to see. I think you just used a bit of

46:21word. Honestly, Jeff, I think you just used a better word than identity. It's alignment. It's alignment. Yeah, yeah, that and that's why because when I when I hear identity, I think of like how you like who you are in 10 words, which I think can be really a difficult to do for a baseball team, but be something that that year over year can change. If your identity as an organization is to use the best tools available to make the best players available, I think that's something that, you know, over many years can stay the same and that you can find success with. But just because you're doing that writ large doesn't mean that individually, you're seeking out different things at different times. Just all depends on what your roster looks like. It's probably not a surprise, a couple of the teams that have clinched the playoffs. Tampa Bay and Milwaukee have about as good of alignment as anybody in baseball. That's accurate. Yes. Yeah, put the Dodgers in there and a couple

47:26other teams as well. The Braves, right? I mean, like these are all guardians. Yeah, guardians. All right, Jeff, we got to go. Let me just say this. The manager matters more than people in modern baseball want to knowledge. That's just a very simple. The manager still matters. I think that those words make it played tomorrow when we talk through the issues that the players have had this year. Jeffrey, thank you. As always, we will do this one or two more times to end the year. Thanks for moving over to Monday this week. We will talk to you next Tuesday. Thanks, buddy. Go chiefs. All right. Yes, chiefs tonight. Of course. Yeah, chiefs and Broncos tonight. Jeff will be glued in. He can see again now, which is nice too. He dealt with that scratch cornea. Now everything's fine. All right. I want to come back to a lot of that, Brock. Let's take a moment or two and just kind of let all that wash over us. And then we'll react to everything we just heard

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