HR 5: Does the QB have to be a captain of your team? +Do you think the Browns can win week 1?

0:00I'm Jennifer and I'm Angela Kinsey. And together we have the podcast Office Ladies. Just because we finish rewatching the office does not mean we're going anywhere. Every Wednesday will be sharing even more exclusive stories from the office and our friendship with brand new guests. Plus, you can revisit all the Office Ladies rewatch episodes every Monday with new bonus tidbits before every episode. So follow and listen to Office Ladies on the free Odyssey app and wherever you get your podcasts. Final hour with you guys, it's Anthony Lam, Mike Markcatchin, with y'all been a fun show so far. I can tell we're kind of, might be getting a little ordinary with each other here. I don't think, you know, that happens in a five hour show. What are you going to do? I want to give you a chance to explain a little bit better yourself because when I get angsty, I tend to yell. And I think I pulled a muscle yelling at you last segment. So not yelling at you, just yelling at the situation.

1:00Yeah, I guess my biggest thing is like, I, there has not been any addressing of what has happened to us as fans by the team. And it's just like kind of everywhere you turn, there's just a different indication of like, man, they really just don't care about us. And even, again, like, I lost my cool, but knowing that as a fan, they shouldn't have, like we shouldn't have any input other than ticket sales and merchandise and food and stuff like that. Yeah, basically what I'm saying is I'm not trying to be like non sympathetic to the fans here. Like Anthony, you know, and this is one of the things like you said, obviously I'm from Michigan, but I mean, don't pull a Kent Karmino on me and tell me that I'm not a Cleveland fan. Yeah, that was me, I'm sorry. I grew up a Cleveland fan even though I grew up in Michigan. And so like I, I've been with you guys throughout this whole Deshan Watson debacle. And it's not that I'm not sympathetic to the fans cause.

2:02My point is the moment that Deshan Watson was named the starter, I have no idea what would lead you to believe that Deshan Watson wouldn't be named captain for week one for the season, whatever. But that's all I'm saying. I'm not saying I don't agree with you that it's not a great look to name Deshan Watson a captain. I understand that people will say, well, you never be a captain because of the off the field stuff. And all this other, like I get it. Like I'm not trying to tell the fans, I don't hear you. What I'm trying to say is I don't know why you would be naive enough to believe that he wasn't going to be named captain. That's it. Like the quarterback of a national football league team is going to be named captain. That's, I'm sorry if you guys disagree with that or if you think we should challenge the norm, by all means push for that. That's the way that this goes in this league. Deshan Watson, whether it was permanent year captain or whether it was week by week, which I actually, again, I'm arguing might actually be your olive ranch from the organization of saying we're not making any permanent captain. We're just saying he's the captain probably as long as he's the starter.

3:04That's just what it's going to be. And if you actually thought that there was a chance that Deshan Watson wasn't going to be named captain, that's on you for believing that because I just don't see any world where Deshan Watson wasn't going to be named captain, at least for week one, or whether it was going to be for a permanent thing. I'm glad it's not a permanent thing. And whether or not we can just say it's because the Browns are admitting that Deshan Watson isn't going to be starting all year. And so they're kind of covering themselves and saying we're going to have these ambiguous captains every week. Fine, I'll take it as kind of like, you know what, maybe they are hearing you out a little bit and saying, you know what, the fans don't really like this guy. He shouldn't be the face of our organization all the time, but like the quarterback kind of has to be captain or else it's kind of a bad look on your team. If you're saying that your quarterback's not enough of a leader of the locker room, not necessarily to the fans, but you need someone to go out there and lead that locker room and those players. And if it's not your quarterback, that is an awful look. Yeah. So to me, they're kind of trying to thread an edel here and I can understand if fans are upset about it.

4:06Like again, I'm not unsympathetic to fans and how they feel about this. I totally get it. I'm just saying it's on you if you thought they weren't going to name Deshan Watson a captain. It was always going to be the case if he was named the starter. Sorry for bringing up the year from Michigan. No, it's like, no, it's a rough thing because Ken has gone on in the mornings before and literally said, I'm not a Michigan fan. When Ken and I had this conversation before and he went on air when I couldn't defend myself and said that and everyone here knows, yes, I'm from Michigan, but I'm a Cleveland fan. Do you forgive me? No, you have to think we're good, man. Yeah, we're boys. Yeah, yeah. All right, I promise not to do that again. Leadership thing, you mentioned. Yeah, I just, you know, I did that with Calavita frequently about I'd bring up like you're from Philly. You don't understand that's that's what he actually is in a Cleveland fan. Oh, oh, you want to imagine working out and not being a Cleveland fan? Come on, that's crazy. That's crazy working on the top morning show in town. Anywho, you so you mentioned the leadership thing and that is probably like from an actual like

5:08in the building standpoint, my biggest hang up is that I don't believe that Deshan has demonstrated anything since he's gotten here to that building that he is a leader. And if your captains are supposed to be your leaders, then either something changed with Deshan, he's turned a new leaf, Todd Munkin believes, you know, foolishly that he's a leader or they're just giving him the seed because he's the starting quarterback and that's that is just kind of what you do. Yeah, I mean, it could be a little bit of both, but like I can tell you as people have said and as we've had coaches say at other players, like this locker room likes Deshan Watson, they respect him, like they view him as that leader figure the quarterback, listen, I should door talks about Deshan. How Deshan helped him last year, even though he wasn't playing. And Deshan has still kind of been a strong voice to try to help bring the young guys along. Like I think this year maybe, maybe Deshan, like got to the point where he's just kind of accepted

6:11that this is his last shot. So like I at least, I better put my best mindset into this and I better try to be this leader and I'm gonna try to be there for my team and do all the other stuff. And then whatever happened after the bills game happened, like he didn't, for whatever reason, he was not even up to think he wasn't gonna get booed and then he did and he snapped and something broken it. I'm not, I'm not excusing that. What I'm saying is that that happened and that's a thing, I just don't, the Browns don't care about that and the Browns believe that maybe he has turned the corner, maybe he has shown that he wants to be a better leader for this team and make them move forward. Again, that's what's weird about the whole weekly captains thing because like no other team does it this way. Which again, it could be one of two things. I think it's more likely the team's pretty much saying, we know he's probably not gonna be the starter all year and it's a bad look to have a permanent captain that basically we might be telling to stay home by week 10. But also it's a way to kind of tell the fans, look, we have a lot of other leaders on this team that we'd like to give the opportunity

7:12to have the captain ship. So we're gonna have it by a week by week basis. And you know what? I'll give Todd Munkin at least, Dishon Watson's gonna be a captain in Jacksonville. Let's see what he does for Tampa Bay. Like maybe he rotates around all these guys and says you know what Dishon, maybe our quarterback won't be captain against Tampa Bay. Maybe it will be Fanon and Jerry Judy. Like we'll see. I will give him that opportunity and I will be the first to put my hand up on the afternoon show and say, look, we're naming a quarterback on offense that is, we're naming a captain on offense that isn't a quarterback. Like fine, prove me wrong. I'll believe it when I see it. I guess the, like we spent so long, it makes me feel a lot better if it's just like, you just happen to win the starting quarterback job so you get to see and then we set it in forget it. As opposed to if they believe he's a leader because we did it with Miles Garrett for so long that we wanted him to be the leader because he's the best guy on the team. He's the generational player that we knew that he has been basically since he got here.

8:13And we just tried to force him into this position that he was just not suited for. There's leaders and then there's people that aren't leaders or lead by example. And it's okay if you're not a, you know, Raul Raul, James Winston style leader, but you gotta be honest with yourself in the locker room. I've seen it so much in the past with Kevin Spansky and Tishon Watson where they're just forcing Tishon into this like leadership. Everybody likes him, Raul, that I'm just like scarred by it and this just feels like another indication of it. So I will say this is a little bit different just in the sense of like I said, I do feel like maybe we have a bit more buy-in from Tishon just because he's that desperate and he understands situation he's in. But also didn't we just do this with Miles Garrett? We forced that sea on his chest every single year he was here and he didn't want it. Yeah. Yeah, you're right. He'd be fair. He doesn't wanted it. I mean, he's a captain in LA, but there's like whatever seven other captains so he can kind of fade into the background. Yeah, but also every other video that I've seen since he's got LA, he's like the greatest locker room guy ever.

9:15But listen to what I mean. We forced this on Miles Garrett for so long and nobody, I mean, I understand it wasn't the off the field stuff. And again, I'm not trying to be again, all this other stuff about Tishon, whatever. We did this about Miles Garrett and he wasn't a vocal leader. He wasn't a captain. Like if I was on the Browns team and I had a vote for captain, I would not have voted for Miles Garrett. That's just the way it would have worked. 100%. Yeah. And so, but we did it. We put the sea on his chest every single year and despite so why is this any different? And I understand it's because he hasn't played well. At least Miles went out there and played well and did do the lead by example thing. Yeah. He did the same thing with Nick Chubb and Nick Chubb was great. Obviously he's can go in the ring of honor someday. Nick Chubb is not a vocal leader. I wouldn't have voted Nick Chubb is captain, but that's the thing like there's certain players who are captain and then there's some players who are just leaders by example. You need both on your team. But if it's like, you know, Dishonn seems like a very quiet person and I don't think he loves talking to the media. Okay, that's fine. It doesn't, he just hasn't been around the organization

10:18because the second that he got hurt, you know, I'm looking at Instagram, a picture's in him in foreign countries I've never even heard of before. And he, so he's not a presence in the locker room like Dak Prescott was when he got hurt. And he also hasn't led by example because his example has been terrible. And I don't want anyone to follow in his lead. So I just think that like anytime an organization flips over a GM or a head coach, and I know it's the basically all the same players from last year, you want the organization to learn something from why the last guy didn't work out. And it felt like the leadership vacuum and forcing that leadership thing like we were mentioning was a big part of why Kevin Spansky's message just ended up running thin. And I just don't want Todd Munkin to make the same mistakes. When I do believe that he is a very good coach and that he is a good enough leader to get these young guys in a good enough position. Yeah. And like I said, I guess I maybe misspoke last segment when I said, you know, the captaincy

11:18doesn't matter to the fans. Like, I'm sure it does, but at the end of the day what the captains are important for is the team. Maybe it's us, you know, I'm interested to hear like what, what y'all saying to afternoon tomorrow, what Ken and Anthony, what basketball and Phillips and Jake say? I'm just, I'm just, and I know Nick's very passionate about this. Like Nick Wilson's the same way. Like he did not want to Sean being named captain. I kind of, I would have said the same thing. Like I just think you're naive. If you don't think he's going to be named captain, that's just the reality of the situation. Like the quarterback's going to get named captain to the team. I can understand why you don't want it. I think you're crazy if you didn't think it was going to happen. And like, I'm sorry if you're disappointed, but like you kind of set yourself up for that. And it's like I said, if the captains are about leading the team. And if the team views to Sean Watson as a leader, that's what matters here. And at the end of the day, Todd Munkin feels good enough about it where the coaches have gotten together and they have decided to name to Sean Watson a captain for week one against Jacksonville. And if they feel like he is the best person to represent the team at the coin toss and lead the team into battle, so be it.

12:19To assist the way it goes. Two and six, four, seven, four, double, 92. Do you feel like the Browns should or should not have named to Sean Watson, the captain week one? When we come back, gotta get to Shadour Sanders as well. We gotta give some sort of predictions. Maybe not go game by game here, but gotta give some sort of predictions for this season because we had a game coming up in less than a week. It's Anthony Lant, Michael Markcotch. Two more seconds to do guys on 92 through the fan. Once again, full vote of programming tomorrow afternoon. I think, as Nick Wilson talked about the captain's thing before he talked about it after his name, the starter. Because he's like, well, I can deal with it if he starts, but he better not be named captain. Please God for me. And then text me after you do it. The first thing that you say in the show meeting tomorrow be like, I don't really care that he was named a captain or not, not actually, you know what, phrase it like that. Even if that's not like truly what you believe, I think you should phrase it like that. And then just show me a picture of his face.

13:20Tomorrow's my first day full time with the guys. I don't know what to do with the feathers. This is the way you should get off on the right. I set it on the air. So it's not like I can take it back. I think that'd be a fun way to start things off. The mutual respect thing. You know, it's like going into prison and like beating up the biggest guy in there. I don't know. I only watch movies that that happens. Anywho, this segment is brought to you by the Y's heart, right? We make it right, call Kyle right, hotline. Do you think that the Browns can actually win? The podcast campus files is back with more stories of scandal, crime and intrigue on college campuses. Campus files available now wherever you got your podcasts. Tomorrow tomorrow. Let's try that again. Do you think that the Browns can actually win on Sunday in Jacksonville? Sure they can. Yeah. Why? And honestly, this isn't even a disrespect to Jacksonville. I think Jacksonville is a good team, but it's one of those things where I don't think they're one of like the elite teams. Like it's not like we're going up against the bills week one or you have to go up against like the Rams of the Seahawks.

14:21Like the Jaguars were a playoff team last year. They won the division. It was a very bad division. Like there's nothing about Jacksonville that I look at. I mean, like we can't deal with that. Like their offense is good, but I'm like, I think our defense can handle it. Their defense is, is okay. I'd say it's probably middle of the pack in the league. They're looking to take a step up this year. I think we can move the ball on Jacksonville. Like can't, am I going to pick the new in probably not, but do I think that they can? Absolutely they can. So it's weird because Sean Watson seven and one all time against the jacks. I know and somebody asked Todd Munkin about that. You brought this up to me, right? Todd Munkin, somebody asked Todd Munkin about it and he's like, I didn't know anything about that, but it makes me feel better kind of going into it. Jacksonville had the same thing that the Patriots did last year. They both won 13 games and somehow no one really took them like seriously. Obviously the Patriots then end up going on to the Super Bowl. So you take them seriously. But it was more so like, hey, you got this way

15:23because of the schedule. I think that a lot of Browns fans were looking at it. How in the hell, because we had their pick, how in the hell is this even happening? I don't know where people stand overall on Trevor Lawrence. I feel like he had a savior ass season last year where he looked closer to that number one overall pick, had some incredible games, great moments, but still was not like left a lot to be desired. And maybe that's kind of the final book on him is that he's gonna be a good enough NFL quarterback, but he's not gonna be this guy that was promised that, dragged or been my route of retirement for a couple of games to go down to Jacksonville for. Yeah, I'm not worried about the jacks like running game a whole lot. What is it like, Tutan? Yeah. Bush will Tutan or whatever the heck his name is. He's there starting running back now because. I'm not gonna lie, I'm not pretty much his first name. The passing game worries me. Like Brian Thomas Jr. Parker Washington,

16:24Travis Hunter potentially, even though they're playing him exclusively on defense now, but he may get, who knows, we may see him. They have a couple tight ends I like. So like their passing game concerns me, especially with the Brown secondary. So I think Trevor Lawrence actually probably will have a good game. It's just, I'm not worried about like, I think they can move the ball in this defense. Like if the offensive like can hold up against Josh Heinz Allen, against Trayvon Walker, you can hold your own and get the ball out. Like you can move the ball in this Jaguar secondary. Does it surprise you that at least based on the betting site that I just pulled up there eight and a half point underdog's brown zone? That's gone up. Yes. So they at least think that you're gonna lose by a touchdown. I mean, look, if the Browns only lost by a touchdown, I think that might take it. You think that a lot of people. So you're cautiously optimistic that they can at least play a close enough game. I don't think they're gonna get blown out. Like I know a lot of people are like, well, they're just gonna get blown out every game. Like guys, they're not that bad. Like I think the defense will hold their road. Enough to keep it close. Is the offense gonna hold up there? And I don't know.

17:25We're gonna see like again, am I gonna pick them to win on Sunday against the Jaguars? Probably not. But can they, Jacksonville's not like a, they're not world beaters. Yeah, they won 13 games last year. Like great for them. They are due for a regression. Like they had the new coach bump and all that stuff. Like they're due for a regression. Maybe like a 11, a 10, 11 win team maybe. Still win that division because it's egregious. But like, can I see a world where the Browns sneak out like a 20 to 17, 24, 21 win? Yeah, like I could see that happening. There's definitely games on this Brown schedule that I'm like, absolutely not. Like they have no chance of winning today. Sure enough then they'll probably win those games. But like Jacksonville's not one of them. I don't look at it and say they can't win. Jacksonville's a good team. They're not a great team. Well, and I think the point that could be either four, you all thinking that the Browns would win or end against thinking that they might win is week one of the NFL season is so sloppy. It's so weird. In many respects, it's still like a preseason game

18:27but it counts at the end of the day. So I mean, there's plenty of opportunities for you to feel like you can take advantage of some stuff that maybe Jacksonville hasn't worked out yet. Also, how much kind of credence do you lend to the idea that nobody's seen to Sean Watts in the last two years? Now, it's not like he's added anything and gone off to wherever the Canadian football league or somewhere that they can't necessarily translate tape to to become this totally different quarterback but they've never seen to Sean Watts in quite a while. They haven't seen KC Denzel, a lot of these guys together and you have no idea how things are gonna gel. Now, the flip side of that is five new offensive linemen, bunch of rookies all over the place. It's gonna be the first time where it's like legitimately loud in an NFL environment. Not that these guys didn't play a big time cause football programs but still. Yeah, I think a lot of the pessimism about the week one is about the fact that to Sean's starting and rightfully so, like do I expect to Sean to play well?

19:30Not particularly, do I expect him to be awful? No, I just kind of expect him to be okay. Like, I think he'll be okay. Like, I think that's what we're gonna come away from this game saying to Sean was. But I thought like Jake and Nick talked about this earlier. So I guess I'll ask you, like would your thoughts going into this game, would your confidence level change if you go starting? I think a little bit, but I think a lot of that has to do with emotion as opposed to actual tactics and... Yeah, and look, I said all summer, you know, even since training camp when there was the Mary K. Cabot report that it seemed like to Sean Watts and had the early lead in this thing and then they should just go ahead and name the starting quarterback. I've said like, whoever Todd Monkain decides, I have the right as a fan to bitch and complain and yelling you and yell at anybody else in my vicinity because I'm upset about it, but I'm at least gonna try my best initially to trust whomever they decide, whether it's Shador,

20:31whether it's Taylor Green. And so this is the person that they feel like over the course of training camp in the preseason was the better quarterback and who might have told him wrong? I don't know football like these guys. I'm not in the building every day. I don't know if Shador can't diagnose a coverage or make the proper checks in and out of the huddle. Like I have no idea. So I have to at least hope that there's something there with the Sean Watts and but I don't think that when anybody says stuff like that, it's thinking that he's gonna be good. It's more so like what you said, just be just hand the damn ball off. Just take five steps back and drop it off to a held fan and let him get the eight yards. Stuff like that. Like I said, there's definitely a path to victory for the brothers in this game. Like if they could jump on them early, like a seven, 10, nothing lead, give the defense a little bit of cushion. Like again, the defense, I know you were very passionate earlier about you think they're gonna take a step back. And sure they probably are. Like they've been due for regression for years.

21:33I just don't think they're gonna be as bad as people think. Like people think they're gonna drop from, like a top five defense to like one of the worst defenses in the league or like they may drop from a top five to like top 12. Like I still think that's pretty good. Like again, Jared versus a player guys, like he's going to do his thing out there. The secondary worries me. I think Carson Swayzenger, like he's healthy now. He's gonna be fine. The linebackers will be okay. The defense is gonna be able to hang in this game. So the question is can the offense put up enough points? Like what's the magic number in this game that you need to get to? Obviously he's probably 20, right? And I think that's been there. That'd be nice to get to. It's been their hard ceiling for a while. I think we can all agree. But like I said, can they win this game 20 to 17, 24 to 21, like 27, 24? That might be asking a lot. But like, can they win that type of game? It can they get in the end zone three times? Yes, I think they can. Will they, we don't know. I'm so interested to see Jared versus how he plays in a real live game alongside Mason Graham. And like obviously Alex, right?

22:34Like what I think we're gonna see. Well, I'll try to. No, no, I'm saying I think we're gonna see from drive number one, what his absence is gonna look like this season. And maybe they just attack the other side where Jared versus literally just, you know, put the miles to Jared, playbook in, and swap out miles for Jared versus. Like whatever it is, I'm super excited to see how he does, how Carson Swatchager develops. Like I think there's a lot of stuff that you could take away from this year to where it's probably gonna be sloppy. They might not end up winning. So Sean Watson might end up looking like the worst quarterbacks ever played. And they still might lose by 30. But it's little tiny things of like how did the rookies do? How does the defense show? Maybe it can quell some of my fears over the defense or the offensive line that they are a little bit closer to being competitive than I initially thought. And it was being way too hard on that. So a lot of this this year I think for a lot of people. And I can understand the people who are just like, oh no, it's about winning. And sure it is. But I think like how the team looks is so much more important than the results.

23:35And of course like you wanna win. But like guys they're not winning the Super Bowl this year. I think we can all admit it. We can all feel pretty comfortable saying that. But like how do they look? Like are they competing? Do they look like they belong? Like that was something Todd Monkins said when they they the joint practice against the bills. Like we went out there, we didn't get pushed around. We looked like we belonged. And sure like most people said they probably lost the practice. But that's the Buffalo Bills. Like that's a team who's expecting to win the Super Bowl. Do you go out there on a weekly basis and look like you belong? Do you compete? Are there, as you said, are the young guys coming along? Well, are we seeing some flash for them? Is Spencer Fano holding his own at left tackle? Is the defense keeping you in games continuing to do those type of things? Like if you can tell me that everything else is better in setting up the fact and we just don't have good quarterback play, I can live with that. Yeah, I think a lot of people can. I will take that this season. Cause then we get to the end of the year and we're saying what we all wanna hear, which is the Browns are a quarterback away. And if we can draft and if we hit on the right guy, which is a big if, there's a lot of work that needs to be done to get to that point.

24:36If you hit on that guy, you're talking about possibly being a playoff team next year. It can happen that quickly if you have the right situation for that rookie quarterback. All right, 216-474-2992. Dustin, I see on hold, we're gonna squeeze you in next segment. If you want one last call, four calls, final segment coming up with you guys. It's Anthony Alant and Michael Marcoach on 92-3, the fan. Understanding power requires more than headlines. I'm Peter Hamby, host of The Powers That Be, a podcast from Pock Examining, politics, economics and media to provide context analysis and clarity without sensationalism. We ask how power operates, who benefits and what's at stake. If you wanna move beyond breaking news to deeper understanding, join us on The Powers That Be. New episodes every weekday, follow The Powers That Be wherever you get your podcasts.