Interview - How To Raise Healthy, Confident Eaters

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2:05This will change the way you think about hydration. Again, go out and get that special monos deal over at drinklmnt.com slash monos. Hey everybody, welcome back to a special edition of the Monos podcast. This is much more new here. A special shout out to all your premium members. So grateful for all of your support. You keep this operation going and growing. And I just want to say thank you for your support. For Mono's premium, it's the reason we can have conversations like the one we're having today where my guest is Jennifer Anderson. She is a registered dietician behind kids eating color. You might follow her on Instagram and social media. She's the author of a brand new book. Feed them well. If you ever wondered whether you're feeding your kid the right way or your grandchild or the kid in your life the right way, today's conversation is for you. Well, Jennifer Anderson thought she had it all figured out, especially given that she's a dietician. She had a whole game plan until her pediatrician told her that her nine month old son was not gaining enough weight. Suddenly the rules she had made for feeding him had to change.

3:06So Jennifer and I talk about why a child can become a picky eater, how to introduce solids, but things you may have been told out there that are totally false, what things that are actually helpful, everything from purees versus finger foods during those early days, what happens when you promise dessert and exchange for one more bite of broccoli. Also how to feed kids on a budget, healthily, introduce new foods without a fight and know when picky eating may be a call for more help. I of course am raising a three year old and a newborn. So I had plenty of questions of my own. And I also tried to include questions that I got from some of you. Here is my conversation with Jennifer Anderson, registered dietician and the author of the new book Feed Them Well. Jennifer is so great to have you here in person today. Thank you so much for having me. First of all congrats on the book. How are you feeling right now? Good. Yeah. Good. Like, amazing. This thing is, it's real. Yeah. I mean, what's that process been like taking what you've been doing on social media and

4:09updating your community over the last few years and converting it into a book? I mean, it's something when I started I never was like, oh, you know, I really want to turn this into a book. It was growing. It never starts that way. No. I mean, it was a hobby. I never thought it would become my job. Amen. Amen. Same thing in my life too. So like, okay, just kind of have followed it. And at some point I was like, I can't say everything I want to say on social media. Yeah. We can't get deep enough here. There has to be something bigger. And that was the book. So your book starts with how this whole story started with you. Your son is a few months old. You went in with a plan. Right. That plan met the pediatrician. Yep. Talk about what your plan was, what the pediatrician revealed to you and what then happened next. I was just out of graduate school. I had just become a registered dietitian. So I was ready. I was like, I have a master of public health.

5:11I'm a dietitian. My kid is not going to have any sugar until he's two. He's going to eat perfectly blah, blah, blah. And when I walked into the pediatrician, he was nine months old and she said, hey, he's not gaining weight. And I was like, what? Doesn't he know I'm a dietitian? No, he doesn't care. And that began my journey of realizing, hey, feeding kids is tricky. And my second son, when he was 10 months old, started showing signs of extreme picky eating. And we worked really hard with him. And he never actually became an extreme picky eater. But this stuff is very tricky. Yeah. I think that's a question for a lot of parents ask themselves, which is, you know, if their kid turns out to be picky eater, like, what have I done wrong? And how much of this is nature versus nurture? That is my pet peeve. So you go on social media, you see all these clips, these headlines. If you do this, you're not going to have a picky eater. If you wing your baby in this way, you're not going to have a picky eater. I'm sorry. No research can back up any statement like that. I talked to so many parents who were like, I did baby live weaning.

6:11And now my kid is a picky eater. And I'm just, I'm wondering, what did I do wrong? I just talked to somebody two weeks ago who's like, for the past seven years, I've been wondering what I did wrong. And the answer is, nothing. You didn't do anything wrong. Your kid just became a picky eater. That's really how it works. Sure, how you feed your baby. It matters. Right. Which we'll get into in the book. Yeah, but it's like, that's one piece of the puzzle. There's so many other pieces. And you are winning way more than you think you might. So we could follow every piece of advice you have in this book and you could still end up having a picky eater. Which is why this book has two parts. And yes, you could absolutely end up with a picky eater. Because my biggest pet peeve with parenting books is they're like, oh, if you do XYZ, your kid is going to do ABC. And then I do XYZ and then my kid does QZ R. Or S. Right. And you're like, what? And then the book leaves you. And I was like, I'm not putting on another parenting book like that. I'm not going to do that to parents. So part two is all about dilemmas.

7:12Where you're like, something went wrong. How do I know what to do? How do I know what to prioritize? What actions do I take? It's like I give you permission in part two to do all the things you're like, that's what I wanted to do. And I didn't know I was allowed to. And finally, you get permission to do what your kid needs. So we were talking about this before we got started. I am now the father of a student to be three year old and a six week old, two girls. We are very fortunate because our three year olds so far has shown no major regression. She's an incredible eater. She eats what we eat. My wife went through the whole hundred foods and a hundred days. But this is a subject that is a very high interest. And no matter what we're doing, like as we talked about, social media feeds are inundated with like, you know, it knows who I am. It knows how old my kids are. And I'm constantly getting this and that and this and that. And maybe we should try this and maybe we should try that. And if your child shows this, then do, you know, do why? Why has feeding our children become so overwhelming? I think one of the reasons is we're constantly being hit with information.

8:17And we're like, I don't know who to believe or what to believe or what to do. And so we have so much information coming in and we believe that there's the research out there that will tell us the best way to do things. We so want confidence that if I put resources into my child, I'm going to get the result I want. If I go through 100 foods in 100 days, I'm going to get the perfect eater. And you might and it will have been worth it. But at the same time, you now have all this pressure of like, I have to do all the things so that I get this perfect child. Bottom line is you have a child who's a human. So they're going to run into some issues, regardless of what you do. And we're overwhelming ourselves thinking there's one right way to do everything. And that we have to learn it and then implement it like a professional. So is one of your hopes if somebody reads this book that like, it'll allow parents to

9:19breathe at the end of the book? Oh my gosh. You, no parent could read this and feel bad about themselves. I just think deeply, deeply believe that every parent is doing an amazing job. Regardless of what you think is going wrong, you're doing so many more things right. You have no idea. So I'm going to go back to your story. So the pediatrician says your child's not growing. You're a dietician. So you have this game plan. What happens next? I had to like liberalize his diet. I had to introduce sweet like added sugars earlier because those made him eat more. I had to learn to cook in a totally different way. So I had to do things that made me change my plan. And yet that is what he needed at that time. Explain the added sweets element. Like, you know, it seems like that was against your rule going in. Yeah, right. Right. So like public health recommendations are no added sugars before too. Right. And there's great evidence kind of backing that up.

10:21But at the same time, if your child isn't getting enough calories or nutrition, you just have to get it in. That's always going to take precedent. So here I've got this kid and I realize, hey, if I add a little bit of honey to his yogurt, he'll eat twice as much. That's an easy yes. Like the answer is, I've got to get the food in him. And I started with a smaller amount and a chocolate chip here and a chocolate chip there. And it wasn't like I was feeding him a ton of donuts or something like that. But it made a big difference. And it also taught me that, yeah, you really have to pay attention to your kid. Because if you're just wildly following recommendations, you're going to end up in a spot at some point where you're like, but they're not working or my kid isn't doing well. What do I do? You know, we got to stay flexible. Yeah, customized for the kid. Yeah. And I imagine you were two sons. They were different too. Oh my gosh.

11:22Yeah, for sure. But of course, when your older kid is eating sweet and yogurt, the younger kid is going to eat sweet and yogurt a lot earlier. Yeah. Never is good. So there's just life realities too. You know, like the, we've always had a bedtime snack because the one kid needs it. And so this is like after dinner right before bed. Right before bed. We have a bedtime snack that's part of our routine. Everybody knows it's coming. So of course, the second kid who probably would not have needed a bedtime snack. That's also part of his routine because we're a family. And so how does that experience? How do you decide to start documenting that experience and turn into, you know, what becomes kids eating color? So I was sending very cute little bento lunches with my son to preschool to kind of capture his attention. Hi, calorie bento lunches. Capture his attention. Get him eating at preschool. And they were cute. And so a friend of mine said, hey, why don't you pose, you know, why don't you create

12:25an Instagram page? So I was like, okay, you know, so I would post a picture of the lunch and then add some comments. Like, hey, this is what I'm doing. This is why this is how to do food exposure. This is how to do no pressure introductions to different foods. And people really liked it. You know, I had gone in thinking, gosh, I can't be the only parent having a really hard time feeding my kid. And I learned that I was not the only parent. I think you just got very quickly on social media and people found you and now millions of people follow you. What does that feel like? I, you know, what I always go back to thinking about the single parent in the, I mean, a parent in their house feeding their kid, that's what I'm here for. I'm here for that one person. And yeah, there's millions of them. But to me, it's still very personal. Whether it's one million or 20 or, you know, 2000 to me, it's still been the same core

13:25of I'm here for you. Let's start at the beginning here. How do parents know that their baby is ready for salad food and then take us through that whole debate between pure rays versus finger foods? Yeah. So if your baby, you know, usually around five to six months, everything kind of comes together. Your baby is sitting up there watching you, they're watching you eat. And you're like, okay, they're definitely interested. If you try to give them something and they kind of put it in their mouth, they won't push their tongue out automatically as much. They can kind of sit with support or on their own and they're bringing toys to their mouth. They're generally ready. And again, that's like, usually around five to six months, you know, sometimes people started a little earlier at four. When it comes to these debates about finger foods and purees, look, they're both good. There's evidence backing them both up. The claims that, you know, baby lead meaning is going to prevent picky eating are overblown.

14:30There is some research showing that, yeah, there's less incidence of picky eating. But that doesn't mean there's no picky eating or that everybody who does this is guaranteed to not have a picky eater. There's plenty of babies also who do purees who are adventurous eaters. So the fact that it's overblown is what gets me. But also it's great. Like, hey, finger foods are great. My son, I started with purees the first day I gave him, you know, I don't know, some banana mixed with breast milk or something on a spoon. He picked up the spoon. I tried to feed it to him. No way. He picks up the spoon. Shops it in his mouth. I mean, this is like a spoon that was like eight inches long. And he managed to get it in his own mouth. Never one time did he ever let us feed him. He was like self-fed from the start. So we did various purees and he developed all these little ways of feeding himself and chunks of food. And, you know, so he did the baby self-feeding from the start.

15:32My other kid, honestly, to be perfectly honest. I remember. That's how important it was to me. I'm in here right now with a toddler and an infant. And I ask friends and they're like, I don't remember that part, man. I don't remember. I do not have enough sleep to make memories. It basically, I think of that six month period as like, it's important. It's important to get the iron rich foods, the zinc rich foods, foods like that, into baby, whether that's through finger foods or purees. What we want to focus on is a positive meal time experience and helping the baby feed themselves and learn and have fun. That's going to go so far. And the puree versus baby-led weaning, do whichever one feels good to you. But keep an open mind because you have to pay attention to your baby. And if they're not thriving, like sometimes I get people in my Better Bites treatment program, which is kind of the, uh, that focuses on arphid and extreme picky eating. And they'll say, oh, we started with baby-led weaning and people just kept saying, wait,

16:34your baby will eat when they're ready, when they're ready. And it just kept going out now. And then they're like, well, my baby's won and they're still not eating. Huge red flag. We should have switched to purees like when the baby was seven months old, right, or eight months old. So if something is going weird, if you're like, ah, this doesn't seem to be working, change. That's not, that is going to be better for your baby than to keep going with something that you thought was the best practice. So flexibility is key here regardless of what someone to tick-tack tells you. Absolutely. So yes, as you brought up sort of feeding them versus being an independent feeder, you know, one of the concerns a lot of parents have is in regards to, are they getting enough nutrition? Yeah. The joke is that like my child survives on two blueberries and three shrugberries and a half a banana. Right. And I don't know. And they're still running around, you know, 18 hours a day. To what extent, you know, how do you navigate that at the, at the lunch table at the dinner table? Sure. So when they're babies, you just want to keep going to the pediatrician having them measured, you know, the pediatrician is usually the one who's going to be like, hey, something's

17:35a little off with their growth. But if they're growing and they are eating, then that generally indicates they're doing okay. At the one year mark, there's this period of time where your baby may, as they become a toddler, stop eating very much because they're not growing that much. You think about an infant, right? Your infant at six weeks is tiny. And then by the time they're one, they're like ginormous. They weigh three times as much, maybe. And that's a lot of growth. Whereas your toddler is only going to grow a couple of inches, right? And so growth has slowed way down and they just don't need the same amount of food. So parents often freak out at that point. And they're like, oh my gosh. I put the phone to play to the eight. You only get the two blueberries. Like how are you alive? Only that's normal. It doesn't happen to every kid, but it's also not a cause for alarm. And it's also not the time to say jump in and be like, oh my gosh, I have to get them to eat something.

18:36So chicken nuggets or whatever, hyperpellable food, those foods with the added sweets or sugar or sodium. I mean, there's a place for that. Obviously, I just talked about that. But also, that's the time where we often contribute to piggy eating in that phase because we're so worried about how much they're eating. But the reality was they just didn't need as much because they're not growing as much. Because you want your kids to have a healthy relationship with food. But then a lot of stuff plays into that, like how your parents fed you. And then like, okay, if you eat one more piece of this chicken or fish or something, then you'll get a dessert. Yeah. How should parents, again, understanding that every child is different, never family is different, navigate the like, oh, but I really just want them to eat another piece of broccoli and another piece of meat before, you know, and should I incentivize them with dessert? Yeah. So, if you tell your kid, if you eat broccoli, you can get a cookie. Often what they're hearing is, oh, cookies are really good. And broccoli is bad, so bad that my parent has to bribe me. I mean, they get that.

19:37And so sometimes what they can do is then make the broccoli seem even worse and the cookie seem even better, which is usually the opposite of what parents are looking for because like cookies are amazing on their own. They don't really need anything extra. So I generally recommend avoiding using food as a reward. Connect it. Don't really connect it if you really, really want to incentivize it. And it's not like my go to recommendation, but let's say this is something you really want to do. Okay, use a non-food reward. Use a sticker or some praise. Actually, there is some research behind using praise to kind of incentivize kids to eat food. And if you know your kid and they're okay with praise, that might be a better fit. You also have to know if your kid, like my kid is like, you're praising me? Not sure, but I think about that. So that wasn't good strategy. But on the scale of the nudge, like, are you sure you don't want an extra piece of whatever healthy? Sure. You know, like, where does one draw the line?

20:39You know, like, when you, when you, when should you feel okay, like, okay, doing the nudge versus like, okay, I guess they're done. Yeah. You can kind of see how your kid is reacting, right? Are you nudging and then they're digging in? In that case, it's probably not serving you well. Or are you nudging and they're like, okay, so have a warm, friendly nudge. Like, hey, do you want more broccoli? I mean, the rest of my broccoli would you also like another bite? Something that's warm that's friendly, your kid is going to pick up on the pressure. Some of those kids, again, if you pressure on, they're going to be like, oh no, I'm not. I'm not going to eat my broccoli. You got to know your kid. You got to know your kid. And then even the way that kids eat, you know, my parent, my mother likes to tell me that like, I hated as a small child eating at the table, but they would leave food along the table for me to run by and grab stuff on the way. So like creative approaches. Right. Yeah. I mean, that's what this book is. It's like, whatever you've heard that like, oh my gosh, you should never let kids, you know, graze or whatever.

21:41Like, no, that's generally not the go to, right? And if you're finding that is the key to your child eating what they need to eat, go for it. Curious, you know, sometimes things start off really well and then there's a regression. Yeah. And we heard this a lot from folks like, oh, you're, you just wait in a year, they're only going to want pizza and chicken fingers. Like, even if they're eating really well right now, to what extent are those regressions normal and what can be done if possible to prevent those regressions or make them as brief as possible? Sure. I think I would go in not assuming those regressions are typical. Is your kid going to get choosy? Yeah. I mean, you think about yourself. There's flavors you like and flavors you don't like, right? So that's going to come up. But the more you have in your mind, oh, they're, they're just going to be going all the way to mac and cheese and nuggets, you're going to be making that happen. Instead, if you stick to what you're eating and you're like, this is what's for dinner. And you know, maybe your kid goes through a phase where they primarily eat rice whenever you serve rice and chicken and chickpeas or like, you know, whatever the meal is.

22:45And you can kind of wait that out, right? But if you stop serving that, you actually start changing the way that you're putting together meals, your kid will rise to that level, right? In that case, perhaps fall to that level. So it's always a, it's always a dance. But if you're finding your kid is really losing a lot of foods and becoming really extremely picky, even as early as one, two, three, you're like, wow, things are getting really weird and they won't eat mashed food and they will only touch red foods. Those are actually signs that eating may be something a little bit more serious. So I have the pediatric screener for Arphid and Extreme Picky eating on my website that helps parents know, is this extreme or is this normal? What's your website again? Kidsinkolor.com. Yeah, you know, I want to get to the core here, which is when we say picky eater, what is actually happening? Is it a sensory issue? Is it a taste issue? Is it a control issue?

23:45It could be any of those things for what I call typical picky eating. I mean, just kind of a kid being a kid. I feel like kind of captures this a little bit of sensory, a little bit of like, hey, I'm my own person and a little bit of this, a little bit of that. When it comes to more extreme picky eating, then we're getting into anxiety, over food, like me, during anxiety, sensory processing differences and also a lack of appetite, right? But these are like enough to where you're like, something is worse for trying to most people. You can call the pediatrician. Sometimes pediatricians aren't as well versed in extreme picky eating. So sometimes you need a little something. It's one of the reasons I developed this screener so that parents had some information that they could then take to the pediatrician and say, hey, I think these things are not normal, right? Not typical. Can we talk more?

24:46So what extent have you spoken to parents about and what are the solutions around parents not letting their own anxieties and hangups around food continue with their children? Yeah. You know what? Do the best you can because you do have your own things, but I do find feeding kids to be a great opportunity for us to develop our own eating. So let's say you're a picky eater and you're like, I really don't want my kids to be a picky eater, then you're going to have to model trying foods that you don't like. You're going to have to push yourself a little bit. It doesn't mean you have to be a perfect eater, but your ability to model saying, you know what? I'm still in into like mushrooms. Today I'm going to touch it. Today I'm going to poke it. I'm going to take a bite of this. That's so powerful because you're actually teaching your child all the skills to learn to try new foods, even as you're doing it, even though you're not able to eat it yet. One of your core things you discuss in the book is independence, eating with embodied

25:46independence. Explain what that means. Embodied independence means our kids know how to feed themselves. That independence piece. Like, oh, I know how to take care of my body. I know to eat a variety of foods. I know how to maybe cook or like eat routinely. And embodied is where we're actually helping kids live in and feel their bodies and appreciate their bodies for what they are as opposed to being focused on body size, body shape. Or, you know, getting into diet culture. So we're avoiding diet culture. We're also kind of avoiding a culture that really glorifies eating hyper-palatable ultra-processed foods all the time. So we're bringing together this idea that, hey, kids can have a good relationship with their body and they can also know how to take care of their body at the same time. So we, you know, initially we've been talking about kids at a very young age. This is their starting out. But, you know, eating is a, they're in your household for a while, you know, through elementary school and middle school and junior high and high school. How do things shift over time?

26:48And are there, you know, sort of key milestones that we should be following as our kids age? So the most important milestone is that one to two age, where I feel like there's just a huge thing. The other one's kind of morph over time. So as you're, you know, dealing with your toddler and preschooler, what you're often struggling with at that time is just them being like, feral at dinner time. Like, how are you like this? Like, I can't get you to sit down. I can't get you to eat. And so we're connecting with kids. We're bringing some fun to the table. We're helping expose them to new foods. We're doing those things. And we're doing that through typical picky eating as well. Like if your kid does start to be picky, then you're going to be exposing them to do foods modeling, all those things. And then as we get older, all of a sudden kids start having a little bit more independence. They start making their own decisions. Maybe they decide to use their money to buy foods that you don't necessarily like, or

27:51they come home and they say, I'm fat. And you're like, wait, what, what do I say about that? So the outside influence starts to play a bigger role. My kid came home the other day and was like, can I have energy drinks? And I was like, absolutely not. They are not, I mean, I didn't say absolutely not. I said, no, they're not safe for kids. And he was like, well, why? Because obviously kids do drink them. And so we're having to have these more in-depth conversations with kids. And at that point, we're really trying to steer them toward having a good relationship with their body, but also understanding food in a positive way. And sometimes at times, some of the more negative side of things as well. Yeah, I mean, there's always that debate, right? Well, if they don't get it in the house, they're going to go find somewhere else. If we have a really restrictive policy in our house. Sure. Actually, it leads to the recent viral debate about the Oreo cookies. The mother who didn't serve her child Oreo cookies, and then they saw them at school,

28:52and she's on the note to the other parents, being like, can nobody give their kids Oreos? And the other parents said, actually, forget you. Yeah, right. We're going to send as many Oreos as possible. So what do you make of all of that? And now I'm getting that as a parent, too. Some parents want to have certain rules. Yeah. Yeah. First of all, I think it's hilarious. And it happens in real life. And I think what's been interesting for me is, I'm always going to come down on the side of Hey, feature kid, but you want a feature kid. Like that's just my parent team philosophy. You've never sent memos with your parents. You know, with a chicken pack and their kids long-term. I have it. You know, if a parent did, I'd be like, you do you. No, I'm not going to change what I said by kid. But like, you know, so that's my parenting philosophy. When it comes to being a dietitian, what's been interesting about this is to see the whole, I mean, one person came across a comment that someone said, oh, let's talk about the Oreo to eating disorder pipeline. And there has been this belief.

29:53I mean, I call it a belief. We were taught that it was evidence-based that if you do restrictor kid a lot, they are going to become obsessed with food, potentially restrictive, developed, disordered eating, that sort of thing. And so when I went into writing my book, I had that mindset. And that's something that I had kind of told parents before, like, hey, let's not be restrictive with sweets because this very clear relationship. And when I was researching my book, I came across a paper. I kind of drafted it, came across this paper because I pride myself in being an evidence-based that changed everything for me. It was so big that it kind of like jaw-dropping. I've read that thing so many times. What this paper said was that in their study, they had noticed that people used the gold standard of what we consider to be gold standard evidence-based parenting practices and feeding practices, had some children had lower diet quality when the parents used these practices. And I was like, wait, excuse me?

30:55What? And what this study had done is it had considered two things that most studies had, one child temperament, and two, the relationship between parents and kids, parents affect kids, and kids, and who they are in their temperament affects what parenting practices parents use. And what I learned is the vast majority of child feeding research did not take that into consideration. And I was like, whoa, I, that pulled the rug out from under me. Because then I was like, well, what else have I been taught in school was evidence-based. And in reality, it's based on this observational research that can't show causality and also did not take into consideration who the child was or this relationship between parents and kids. Which is to translate that into the real world, translate that into like my kitchen and my dining room. Sure. Sure. Sure. So one of the things were taught as dieticians to use this model called the division of responsibility and child feeding, which you may have heard it as like the parent provides

31:56the child decides, or the parent is deciding what is served, when it's served, where it's served, and the kid is deciding how much to eat and whether to eat. And it kind of checks out on like the broader scale. We were taught that, hey, this is the evidence-based practice. So I would probably advise you, I would advise you to never pressure your child to eat the broccoli. I would also say if they want unlimited ice cream, you know, in some cases at least, let ameta unlimited ice cream or unlimited ice cream. I mean, at times, at times, right? So I would be very very. You never tried to put my childhood bed after that jazz cream. I would definitely be more on the side of like, hey, we're going to let them decide how much to eat. They're listening to their body. And also, we're not going to be pressuring them at all. What I learned is this framework that we have been taught, this little method.

32:57It was created in the 80s, which is before child feeding research mostly existed. We have very little research before that. So we couldn't be evidence-based. And kudos to the person who developed it, like for developing a framework that has helped so many millions of families do a great job eating their kid. But it was created. So this person was a dietician and therapist. And she had a private practice working with eating disorder clients. So what's created for a very specific group of people? But what I learned is even now, there's not a strong evidence space for that. And that really checked out for me because I was like, okay, I've been working for so many years with families in my better bites programs. And for a lot of them, this method has just broken down. And I talked it up to, you know, some things work for some kids and some things don't. But now I know why? Because this method was only ever created for a specific group of people.

33:57And for modern parents in the modern world who are living, you know, decades after that was created in a totally different food environment with food created by food companies and engineered to be hyper-palatable. Like we need a framework that goes beyond that one that we had before. All right. So we like to get points on everything these days. And a major question that many of you may have asked is, why can't I get points on my rent? It's been so much my money on my rent or my mortgage and built has an answer for you. Yes, you can. Becoming a built member means earning points on every housing payment, no matter where you live. And then built points can be redeemed for flights, hotels, lift rides, Amazon.com purchases, future housing payments, and more. And beyond rent, you can get so much out of built. So here's what you should do right now. First, download the built app. I don't know what you guys are waiting for. Second, link any credit card or debit card to the app. So purchases made at local spots become even more rewarding. And third, ask the neighborhood concierge in the app for pretty much everything.

35:01It'll tell you about exclusive member benefits. It places like restaurants, fitness studios, things like lift rides, and more around your home. Download the built app, join the membership for where you live at joinbilt.com slash monos that is j-o-i-n-b-i-l-t dot com slash monos use our links so they know we sent you. So John, I'm feeling a little hungry right now. I'm thinking about lunch. Most I am always hungry and thinking about food. And that is why I love factor, which makes it very easy to eat chef crafted dietitian designed ready to eat meals. And this way you don't have to choose between real food and convenience. Yeah, it's all about eating well, but also convenience, especially as people who have young children and they have over a hundred different menu items to choose from everything from salmon burgers to shredded pork to pumpkin flavored cheesecakes to protein shakes a whole variety of things there are 97% of their users, by the way, agree that factor meals help them live a healthier life. So you can feel confident that you're doing something good and not feel guilty at all about

36:02how convenient your next meal is. Most our podcast listeners know I am delving into cooking, but my favorite thing about factor. No cleanup. So let's eat real head to factor meals dot com slash monos 50 off use the code monos 50 off get 50% off and one free breakfast item per box for a year, while supplies last until October 31st that is code monos 50 off at factor meals dot com. See website for more details. You use the phrase hyper palatability. Yeah. And the American food system, the multi billion dollar food industry. Yeah. This is what's different here in America versus around the world. And what that trend over the last couple decades has led to. Yeah. So I know there's a lot of there's a lot of information out there that's actually incorrect about food dies being allowed here and not in other countries and you can. It's like half my teeth are clean. Yeah. That's right. There's a lot of that. Oh my gosh, everybody in Europe has a better.

37:04It's not like European food systems are perfect, right? A few things that they don't have in other countries is pharmaceutical advertising directly to people and also food advertising to children. So a lot of some countries don't allow character advertising. So there's there's really a lot of food advertising. Yeah. And if you think hyper palatable food in Europe is not as hyper palatable as in America, then you're mistaken. hyper palatable means that the food has added sugar, added sodium or added fat. And that makes the and food companies they engineer them not only to have those properties to give us a higher reward in our brain, but also they'll do things like change the texture just so so that we want to keep eating it. So they're designed to override our hunger and fullness cues. It's color. It's crunch. It's everything. And if we're focused on like additives and and you know dies and that sort of thing.

38:08But in a lot has been made of like even most recently in the last couple of weeks, you saw like M&Ms and you know, well, a whole bunch of them go to like natural dies versus the artificial. What an amazing marketing opportunity for them. Look at all the press they got for changing their food dies. Of course, they're still offering all the normal ones. They ended up not I think they ended up not doing blue right because it was too exciting. Yeah, they're right. So they're going to do I don't know probably a short run thing of their natural version or whatever. They're still M&Ms. And I like M&Ms and I don't demonize M&Ms. They're a lot of your house. They are a lot in my house. And also a die free M&M is still an M&M. So all those things are concerned about with health like eating candy and all that. That's still there. They're just now doing it without a little bit of die. So if your child has a diet issue, right? Which is small.

39:08But in some people have said that like they definitely notice a change in the child's behavior. They have those certain dies. And that is true for a small percentage of children. In which case, if your child is sensitive, absolutely avoid dies. But for the vast majority of children, they're not going to have a visible reaction. And the answer isn't die free M&Ms. It's hey, can we eat something other than M&Ms unless we're doing it intentionally for fun, you know, but that's not our go-to snack, say. Yeah, we talked a bit about snacks dessert. What are the reasonable limits when it comes to sweets, how to best integrate dessert? Yeah. So a lot of it is going to depend on the culture and your family. Maybe your family that doesn't do dessert. Okay. Just don't do dessert. Maybe very sad. That's not my family. But maybe there's maybe you're more of like just cake for birthdays or just for celebrations or whatever. Or more holistic definition of dessert. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Not for dessert. Sure. I mean, that wouldn't be my definition, but maybe it is for you.

40:11No, no, not in our house either. But maybe somewhere out there. Yeah, sure. So whatever it looks like for you, you can do it. What we really want to avoid is just demonizing sweets and using foods like, using words like toxic poisonous. I heard one person told me that she refers to candy as death snacks for a child. Okay. I was like, wow, that's a really strong statement. I could see perhaps how a kid would be scared of sweets. And I've introduced this level of maybe anxiety and fear about food. Morality could easily go with that. It's like, well, what if I eat this food and I be a bad person? Oh, and they add school. They're going around being like, you're going to die if you eat that. I've had teachers tell me that story. You know, a kid came in preschooler told the next preschooler, oh my gosh, your mother put poison in your lunch. So I got to ask myself, like, is that what I want my kid doing? It's not what I would like my kid doing, right?

41:12I'd rather have them go in and be like, oh, what's in your lunch? Let's be curious. Oh, different people eat different things. So while families are going to have different levels of restriction in their home or permission as I like to think of it, as we maybe have some boundaries and limits or we have permission and there's a vast range that parents can choose to be on on that spectrum. What's the best language of a cowboy than to use around healthy food versus dessert? Sure. I just like to call it dessert, right? Just this is a cookie. But mom, dad, why can't we just eat dessert? We need all foods. All foods do something in my body and my body needs them all. But do you avoid terms like good for you, healthy for you, make you stronger? I mean, there's a lot, you know, it's so funny because I don't even think about it. And I'm like, oh my god, I'm repeating what my parents said to me or what I've seen on TV show or whatever, you know, in terms of incentivizing the healthy foods without demonizing unnecessarily on healthy food, right?

42:13So what I like to do rather than saying something generic like this is healthy for you, which what does that even mean, right? Because I can make your eyes strong. Right. That's exactly right. Yeah. Is giving kids something interesting that's relevant to them. So I like carrots help you see the dark because although carrots alone aren't going to improve your vision, they will help you prevent night blindness because if you have a vitamin A deficiency, it can resist a night. There's facts behind that. Yeah, specifically night vision. So hey, carrots help you see the dark. Hey, red foods help your heart. You can keep the messages really simple for the preschoolers. And then as the kids get older, sure, maybe they want to know that vitamin A prevents night blindness and carrots are a source of beta carotene and that your body can burst out to vitamin A. I mean, it all depends on your kid. How much they care. Well, why can't they have more dessert, right? Why can't they? Desert first. Right. What's the best way to describe that with again, not demonizing it unnecessarily, but also not like talking about how great dessert is. Sure. You can say, hey, what would happen if we just ate broccoli?

43:17And I think even most kids and my kids from very early ages were like, you wouldn't feel very good. Because yeah, if you just ate broccoli, you probably wouldn't feel very good. So and also your kid will probably have the opportunity to eat too much candy or dessert at some point and they probably will get a stomach ache. Raria and belly ache is what we go with in our house. They will very quickly put that together. You need too much to escape, you need to get a belly ache, right? So I think it's okay to put those together. It's like you're not going to let your kid eat as many prunes as they want. I mean, I would substitute you, right? But like, nobody with this small child wants to be up. No, we use prunes strategically in our house around vacation. Right. You also discuss in your book. Right. So like we're not going to like kids eat as many prunes as they want and we're just going to be practical about it. Like, hey, that's going to make you cook too much, right? We're just going to be really practical and we can do that with sweets as well. As you've been watching what's been unfolding with Maha, you know, we talked a bit about the food diets. There's been a lot of discussion of seed oils.

44:18You look at the last 18 months, anything you take away, they're like, okay, that's led to positive trends in this direction. But at the same time, you know, we're not focused on the right things or it's led to, you know, some negative impact. So I think what is most important for parents to know is that while all things may be important related to nutrition, not everything has the same level of importance in nutrition related to their child. So I have what I call health impact years in my book where it's like tier one is like enough calories, right? So that's where I was with my kid when I needed to be like health is a lower concern than my child getting enough energy to grow. And so when we get into dyes and pesticides and things like that, it doesn't mean they don't matter. But the question is, are we focusing on the thing that's going to have the broadest impact on my child? For example, if we're focusing on fiber, which is a tier three thing in my phone.

45:18Fiber's tier three. Fiber's tier three because again, we're going with like, okay, we're living in tier one. We are meeting our basic growth, basic needs in tier two. And now we're starting to think about nutrition more seriously in tier three. So we have fiber. Fiber's super important. It reduces cancer risk. It improves the microbiome. It improves like immune system. You name it. Fiber is going to help with it. Keeps your cholesterol down, like all these things, right? And if you work on improving your child's fiber intake, that means they're going to be eating more whole grains, more vegetables, more fruit, all sorts of things. And when you do that, you crowd out some of the ultra processed foods that don't have fiber. Ultra processed foods are the ones most likely to have the dies. The pesticides that added it, you know, all that stuff, right? And that's what is being focused on. So when you focus on the thing with the broadest impact, you affect all the tears below.

46:23But when you focus on the food dye and the additives first, what do you end up doing? You end up switching one hyper-palatable food for a different, hyper-palatable food. And that is not going to have a very broad impact on your child's food. So we're going to tear one here and tear two, you know, and it's ensuring, especially as we spoke earlier about like, oh, because not eating that much. But like I need them to, you know, survive and have them basic, like calories, or like protein. What are the things parents should be like hyper-focused on as they, you know, watch their kid eat breakfast lunch and dinner? So let's do choking prevention. Let's do, let's make sure they are eating protein. Now your kid is probably eating plenty of protein. And I talk about protein recommendations specifically. Well, we have live in a world now where like there's never enough protein it feels like, right? Right. And a lot of that is just hoopla, just marketing, right? The reality is your kid probably needs way less protein than you think. So they're doing fine. But I have to put it in there because, hey, protein, protein deficiency, it's a serious

47:25problem. We do need that protein. But then, you know, then we're kind of getting into the fiber and the things like that. But I think a lot of us are usually doing the top two tiers, right? We're already doing the protein. We're already, and I do throw a couple of non-food things in there like sleep and physical activity. Like, we're already working on those things. But the things we're getting in our headlines and in our social media clips are like from tiers five and six, right? And so those are in our minds. And so we're putting our energy and perhaps our finances and our creativity toward that, when in reality, we may just be able to focus on fiber and having massive impact on our child's health. Question when it comes to eating out like at restaurants, et cetera, you know, a lot of restaurants have kids menus. We've tried to order off the adult menu and it's been relatively successful actually with our daughter. Is there approach to, you know, those who are eating out often and how to ensure in the

48:26restaurant setting where you can't control what's happening in the kitchen to certain extent, you know, directionally what you should be doing? Sure. I think a lot is going to depend on your personal approach. I think restaurant and eating out can be a great opportunity to expose your kids to all kinds of new things. If it's a good fit for your family, that was like restaurants were just not a good fit for our family. So that's never been a thing for us. But we also didn't order off the kids menu. The kids menu is just limited. Like it's always the same. So if you're thinking of your finger as burger or french fries and... Right. And while that's not necessarily bad, it's just limited and we would get our kids like, you know, spaghetti and meatballs and broccoli off the adult menu and split it between them. Something that was kind of familiar to them, but also had more variety than what they were going to find on the menu. Once your kids can read. You've never... a lot of things changed. Is there any data backing up exposure to lots of different types of ethnic cuisine?

49:28Indian food, like spicy foods, you know, like that variety is helpful, you know, long-term? I cannot immediately recall a study that specifically looks at ethnic cuisines, like, you know, a variety of them in that way. But there's tons of research on just exposure, right? Exposure and modeling are always going to be your most successful strategies for getting your kids to eat in a new food. It's not going to work for extreme pig eaters. That's not enough. But those two things alone, because when you have the food there and you're eating it with them, you're showing them the modeling and then you're also exposing them. Even if they're not eating all the things yet, they're still potentially touching it. They're smelling it. They're seeing it. And then again, they're watching you eat it. So that exposure alone is so great. And if you do eat out and you eat in different, you know, and you do experience different cuisines, that's great. When we talk about exposure, generally curious, you know, we often hear about the sponge-like

50:33mind of a child at one to two. That's when you want to start, like, potentially learning foreign language or introducing, you know, various things. When it comes to food, if we're, you know, working off a baseline that about six months is when salads are ready for salads. What is that crucial period of time and what are the, without overwhelming parents, the key things need to be focused on? Yeah. So, you know, six months to ten months, I, you know, I just really focus on like under, under one year. Babies do tend to be more adventurous. And there's a little bit of data showing the more kind of food flavors and exposures that they have during that, that period, the more they're willing to kind of accept foods in toddlerhood. Does first few months of, of salads? Yeah. Kind of in that, you know, under, under one. And I would not stress yourself out about it. I would just focus on whatever you're making for the family, make it baby-friendly. Like, we ate a lot of soft food. A couple of years there. Because I was making one dinner. One dinner, we can deal with like food that's a little softer than we like, but that's

51:35the toddler and the baby can eat. Because then you're already eating a variety of foods. And my guess is you don't want to eat a boring diet. You don't have to wait to introduce different foods to your kid like one today and I'm actually going to introduce another one three days. You don't have to do that. No, even though they ever relatively new stomach, like their stomachs can handle. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I wouldn't like give them a whole bunch of like really spicy food or, you know, something like that. But they can handle different flavors and spices and, you know, whatever vegetables you're eating, my favorite tool is the old school baby food mill, you know, this got this little rotating thing on the top. Like you put the food in it and then you grind it up because I could put that in the diaper bag and take it absolutely anywhere. And if there wasn't something that was baby friendly, I could just grind it up. And then suddenly it was. They got all the flavors. It wasn't a smooth puree. So they also got texture and it's easy. So like don't think, oh, I got to make special food for the baby. Think how can I make this family meal?

52:36Something the baby can also eat. And when you do that, you're automatically going to expose your kid to way more variety and flavors. Couple of quick follow ups here. We talked a bit about how foods are packaged. You're talking the book about like going at like the eye level of a child and seeing what they're seeing through the aisles. It's a remarkable thing. How do parents and caregivers best counter that messaging? It's hard. Food marketing. I mean, we're up against billions of dollars in food marketing to both adults and kids. And so I just like every little thing we can do, whether you're not taking to your story, you're not taking your kid to the story, you're doing grocery pickup. One of my favorite little hacks is just to take the food out of the package before you give it to your child. Whether it's yogurt or pancake mix or like literally anything because your toddler is going to recognize the package and be like, I'm only going to drink the milk that has

53:36the cow on the front. And you want the flexibility, both budget and practical, just logistics. You want flexibility of being able to serve different brands. Also brand flexibility helps to prevent some picky eating. And so one of the ways that makes it easier is for you to just change the brands without your kid seeing that packaging. So take the granola bar out of the package before you give it to them. What's the most popular question you get from parents? Oh, wow, great question. Probably, how do I get my kid to eat XYZ? And does it change by food and by kid? Or do you have a sort of general rules of the road? There are in terms of helping kids eat them. Yeah. Yeah. You know what? Try this. Put it on a stick. Take a toothpick. Put it on the food that your kid won't eat. And have it a dinner. See what happens. I have seen kids try crazy things when it's on a toothpick.

54:40If they're brought some on a toothpick, if the broccoli's on a toothpick. Yeah. You just never know what magic might happen when you bring toothpick magic into the equation. So toothpick is one. I mean, obviously the toothpick is a little sharp. So you have to just make sure that you're good. Yeah, yeah. I mean, definitely consider your child. All of that. Maybe don't give it to your one-year-old. And you can also take off the sharp point. But what it also captures is this idea that it's a little bit fun. When you bring some fun to the table and let's say your kid is in the imaginative stage, you're like, oh my gosh. Do you hear that? Do you hear that bird in my broccoli tree? We played that with my kids when they were toddlers. That game morphed. And of course, then in the end, you eat the bird in your broccoli tree, which they can clear is, right? And don't get too deep into that metaphor. Yeah. And then that morphed into what bird is in my tree. That morphed into what item is in your tree. And morphed into like 20 questions. My kids will still, and they're 11 and 13, they will still play some version of questions

55:41related to broccoli at some meals. It's amazing how that's shifted over time. And when we have these fun little games or we call foods little things, we are marketing those foodstrikes. We can't really go up against the big marketers when it comes to their packaging. You are fighting craft message yourself with the, you know, you've got these funny little stories, and this for your chicken or the rice or whatever it is. You are the marketing department for normal food. We also live in the ear right now where grocery prices have gone sky high in the last few years. And so there's a lot of challenges these days in order to ensure that your family is getting a healthy meal on a budget. Right. So there, you know, as people are going through the grocery all these days and the prices have gone up and, you know, they're still trying to ensure that developing healthy eating habits and getting all the necessary things to their kids. As people navigate the grocery store these days, Jennifer, what do you recommend?

56:41So I think one is, can you incorporate more beans into your diet? That is going to be, those are vegetables and protein foods at the same time. Lots of fiber, all the good stuff, and they're also, they're also lower cost. So those plant-based sources of protein are going to be a good option. I mean, if we really want to get disciplining hairs, we could, but like, I don't think we need to do that. I don't discriminate among my beans. Like they all are going to do something different. They're all going to be great options. I also do have a resource on my site, especially for, you know, families who are really struggling. They're like, hey, we have like a snap budget that we're struggling with. It's a 30-day meal plan that helps families spend a lot less on food. And that's a sliding scale available, even for your families need it. It's called affordable flavors. So we can help, but what we're going to do is we're going to simplify. We're also not going to let that noise of like, oh my gosh, I have to make healthy swaps.

57:42I have to buy the quote, better version. That's, I think that's sucking up a lot of people's emotional energy and also finances into this. I think, gosh, I have to buy the better granola bar. Well, the answer is not that because granola bars are just expensive and now you're buying the more expensive version. Can you actually find a cheaper snack that is not a granola bar, you know, that's still going to be easy. Maybe some apple and peanut butter, maybe some, maybe a muffin that you made at home, something. Of course, we're always balancing convenience and time, you know, all this stuff. But if you are in a position where you're like, I'm so stressed because my budget really can't handle these quote, healthier options. It's perfectly okay to not buy the healthier option because again, we got to be focusing on the things that have the broadest impact on health with our time, attention and money. So we talked a bit about starting out, but people listening to this and their kid is a

58:44picky eater and their kid is three, their kid is six, their kid is 12. What are the general, what's the general outline you recommend for those parents? And I imagine it changes by age. Sure. So if we've got a six year old and they're still really picky, then we're kind of dealing with something else. We're not really usually dealing with typical picky eating. We're in the more like extreme category and then we're looking at what can we change in our family behavior wise to actually make changes. So that would be like I have my allied health companies with set of better bites programs. That's where we're actually helping families who have an issue. Like, oh my gosh, my kid has ADHD, my kid has cholesterol, my kid has arphid or extreme picky eating. I need help. You know, the Instagram isn't going to be able to give you enough for that. You actually need to know what you need to change at home. But if your kid is slowly expanding and growing, you're going to run into bumps in the road,

59:48ride him out. You know, if you've got your 12 year old and all of a sudden they're like, I don't need eggs. You're like, what? Excuse me? My kid did that to me when he was like, nine. I don't need eggs. Like, when you've eaten eggs several times a week for your whole life. I didn't let it get to me, right? I just ran with it. Okay, put a little eggs on his plate. Whenever we had it, gave a normal serving to his brother in one day about six months later. He was like, why do you always give more eggs to him? You love him more than you love me. Like totally forgot about the claim that he doesn't eat eggs. Are you kidding me? So don't escalate it. Don't escalate it. Just ride it out because so many of these things are a phase. So many of these things are going to work themselves out. But I also have a lot of strategies in there for picky eating, for both extreme picky eating and typical picky eating. Yeah, and some of it is just an assertion of authority, right? The kid just wants to know that they can. Yeah. They don't have to eat eggs. They can dictate something in their house. Okay, you're right. You don't have to eat eggs. But also I'm not making you a different breakfast. So you're going to have to eat whatever else is on the side of the eggs.

1:00:49Jennifer, thank you so much for being here. Incredible resource. The book's incredible resource. So congratulations on that. And remind folks where they can find further information. Yeah, kidsinkcolor.com is where you can find everything. Thank you so much for having me. Thank you. All right. I want to thank Jennifer again for joining us. The book is Feed Dem Well. You can check it out via the link in the show notes or wherever you get your books. You can also follow her on Instagram at kidsinkcolor.com. So many great posts and helpful advice that she provides on a daily basis over there. All right, everyone. I will see you back here soon.