Is Andrew Hastie launching a Coalition fightback against One Nation?

0:00This is the Guardian. Regidarmad here coming to you from Gadigal land. And I think this sort of nasty, grubby, politics underscores Paul Enhancens true character. I think she's revealed that she doesn't have what it takes to be prime minister of this country. Is Andrew Hastie becoming the face of the liberal party fight back against one nation? In the last week the MP has become the loudest voice, louder even than opposition leader Angus Taylor, when he spoke about being labelled a traitor. And that's why I think she's revealed herself to be weak, glassed to wood, and unable to take responsibility for her position. It's brought the spotlight onto the MP and renewed focus on whether he has the winning formula for the coalition to stem the bleed of supporters to the ascendant one nation.

1:02Today, political editor Tom McElroy on what Andrew Hastie's battle with Paul Enhancens means for his leadership ambitions. It's Wednesday the 16th of September. Today's markets move fast. Get the insights you need in 10 minutes with the Barclays Brief, a new podcast from Barclays Investment Bank. Through sharp dialogue and scenario-based analysis, our leading experts analyze key market themes each week. So whether you're managing a portfolio or leading a business, the Barclays Brief podcast can help you make smarter decisions today. Stay sharp, stay briefed. Find Barclays Brief wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you for calling the Bombas Comfort Line. Bombas make socks, slippers, tees, and underwear made with the highest quality materials.

2:02Press 1 for comfort, 2 for style, 3 for donation. You chose style. Bombas are styles for whatever you enjoy. You can run in Bombas, lounge in Bombas, dress them up, dress them down, but always give back in Bombas because with every item purchased, another is donated. Bombas, comfort worth calling for. Go to Bombas.com-sach-audio and use code audio for 20% off your first purchase. That's B-O-M-B-A-S.com and use code audio. Hi Tom, good to see you. Rager, great to be with you. Andrew Hastie has been around in politics for quite a while now, but can you give me a sense of who he was and what he was doing before he entered the political fray? Yeah, he's got an interesting backstory and I think some of our listeners will know brought outlines of it. He was born in Victoria and grew up mostly in New South Wales. His father was a Presbyterian minister and he was at university in Sydney when the 9-11 attacks happened. Later found himself studying at the Defence Force Academy and then the Royal Military College

3:04at Duntrown here in Canberra and that took him into the SAS, you know, the elite unit within the military here in Australia. And people will know that he was deployed to Afghanistan and served in the Middle East and the Asia Pacific. But that SAS service puts him in a rare category. He came into Parliament in 2015 in a bi-election, the sitting member for the WAC of Canning, Don Randall died and there was a bi-election and this was when Tony Abbott was the Prime Minister just as he was coming under pressure from Malcolm Turnbull. The bi-election was one of the pivotal points at the end of the Abbott era. He's been close to Abbott over time and these days he's a member of the right faction of the Liberal Party considered a possible leadership challenger to Angus Taylor, the opposition leader. Our listeners will remember that earlier in the year, Hastie opted not to contest the leadership against Taylor.

4:06But I think plenty of people in the party and certainly people across the Parliament here expect that if Taylor comes under pressure, some Liberal colleagues will be looking for Hastie to run and potentially replace him as the opposition leader. We're going to talk about all of that, but you said he's on the right of the party. So he's not a moderate, is that right? Like how far right does he go? I think he has some conservative views. I think he's more conservative than moderate colleagues in the Liberal Party. As I say, he's close to people like Tony Abbott. I think he's opinions on a lot of things aligned with more conservative people in the party. He's further to the right than some of his more moderate colleagues. And I think he's conservative views are quite interesting on issues like the Australia US Alliance and the need for Australia to stick close to the US on the rise of China and the threat that that might pose to Australia. And even on things like Net Zero, he's a staunch opponent of Net Zero and campaigns for Australia to get out of Net Zero commitments.

5:08Does he tend to attract the religious conservative voters? I think some religious conservatives would be attracted to someone like Andrew Hastie. He talks about his faith sometimes. He talks about the strength of the family unit being really important. And I think some of the views that he has that are more conservative would appeal to people who feel that the place of religion in Australian society has slipped and should be restored. So that might be part of his constituency, I think. And just briefly, you mentioned, you know, there was a seat available in Western Australia. Is that how we ended up representing WA federally that it was he was parachuted in? Or does he have more of a connection to that state? No. Hastie moved to Western Australia ahead of joining the SAS and has had links there ever since. Although he grew up on the East Coast, I think he's very much a West Australian these days. His wife is American, they have three kids and that electorate.

6:08And we're going to be talking a lot about that electorate of canning between now and the next federal election because of the dynamics going on there. But I think, like for a lot of WAMPs, coming from the West has become a big part of his political brand, I think. Something that is very noticeable about him and that analysts and journalists talk about is his style that does he have something of a particular ability to use the language of conservatives to challenge the conservative view? I think a big part of the appeal that a lot of people see in someone like Andrew Hastie is that he's well put together and kind of a political package that will appeal to voters broadly. He's a strong conservative, he's not ashamed of that. He's not trying to resile from that. And he comes with a backstory and with a political brand that some conservatives will find quite appealing, I think. Now, there's a few interesting elements going underneath the hood of that.

7:08I think we'll talk more as we go along. But one thing that has emerged recently is a preparedness to challenge other people claiming to be conservative or of the right of politics. And I'm speaking about one nation here and actually challenging them on their bonafides and saying that he finds them lacking. We're seeing that on a character debate with Pauline Hansen and one nation at the moment. And I think the reason that a lot of liberals believe that Hastie is a good person to be having that argument is that he's got real credibility in the conservative political world. A big part of that will be his military service that he's viewed as being in the right faction of the party, which is ascended at the moment under Angus Taylor, you know, the moderates are feeling diminished and limited within the party. And equally, I think conservatives will think someone like Andrew Hastie's got a lot to offer voters. A strong personal record, a set of personal values that are appealing, family values, those kinds of things. And one policy area that I'm noticing him making a lot of contributions on at the moment is the rise of artificial intelligence.

8:14I think he's been talking a lot about that with colleagues in the Liberal Party, but also across the parliament. He was behind a push to get an AI committee set up here in federal parliament and worked with Labor to have those numbers. So I think he's building out his policy contributions beyond things just like defense acquisitions and the Orcas partnership and that kind of thing. So we're starting to see a broader contribution. The other thing I would say is that his statements about AI often talk about his kids and the kind of work that they will do the education they'll receive, the kinds of jobs they might have in the future. I think that will be appealing to a lot of voters, you know, families who are concerned about jobs, education, about the rise of this technology and how it's going to change our lives. So I think he's on good political ground there and making an interesting policy contribution as well. Before we come on to his approach to one nation now, Andrew Hastie himself is not without controversy. There have been some moments that brought him to public attention. I'm thinking of one in particular where he was criticized about his comments of women in the military.

9:21Yeah, that's right. He has been a couple of times grilled over whether he viewed women as having a role in the defense force and on the front lines. Most recently, a couple of years ago, he attracted controversy for saying that women shouldn't be in combat roles in the defense forces. He said that the fighting DNA of close combat is best preserved for what's exclusively male. He first made those comments in 2018. They've bubbled up a couple of times during his political career. He doesn't step back from them, but I think he started to realise that holding strong views that perhaps might not always be in line with broad sections of the electorate is one thing, but articulating them over and over again isn't necessarily the best strategy. So my understanding is that he hasn't changed those views, but equally he hasn't made that argument in public again and again. We'll be right back. You're a pro at running your life, at committing to your workout, at showing up every day, at Bombas War Pros 2. Pros at Making Socks.

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11:32Legal Zoom changed that. Start your Willard Trust online today with an independent attorney available to help if you want one, without the hourly rates. When you need a legal hand, visit Legal Zoom. Legal Zoom provides access to independent attorneys and self-service tools. Legal Zoom is not a law firm and does not provide legal advice. I wonder how much of Andrew Hastie's experience in politics and his political career has been restricted since he gave evidence in the Ben Robertsmith defamation case. Has that caused problems for him? Yes, it would be an understatement to say that it has caused problems for him. He was subpoenaed to be witness in that case. Ben Robertsmith, the Victoria Cross recipient, was taking defamation action against the nine newspapers. Hastie was one of a group of SAS veterans who were called to give evidence about what happened in their service overseas.

12:32Now, he's been criticized for giving evidence against Ben Robertsmith by some on the right, including some in the one nation voting group. They view him as speaking out against a hero. Of course, our listeners will know that Ben Robertsmith has been charged with alleged war crimes. And I think there's a section of the community that view that as going after an Australian hero. Hastie has defended his actions and said that he wasn't voluntarily giving evidence in the defamation case, that he was subpoenaed and therefore required to give evidence. And he has pushed back against claims that he is a traitor as one nation have labeled him various other insults. He says that he believes in the legal process and was required by the court to give that evidence. Now, that's not good enough for people like Paul Enhancin and indeed for one nation's benefactor and patron, Gina Reinhart. Reinhart, the mining magnate, is a strong supporter of Ben Robertsmith and the recent relations between her and Andrew Hastie have been very tense.

13:38And part of that is his evidence in the defamation case that Robert Smith brought. Now, this is leading to a growing political mess for Hastie. Reinhart is a powerful person in the West Australian media market and in politics in the West. She's previously been a big supporter of the Liberals. She seems to be moving her support over to one nation. But as well as political criticism and online criticism, Hastie is finding that some of the media forces, some of the political forces in Western Australia have turned against him in recent years. Now, I think that's partly the reason why he's pushing back so strongly against one nation. We saw last week him challenging Paul Enhancin to take down a cartoon that one nation had distributed where he was repeatedly labeled as a traitor. And he's criticised Hansen as the party leader for not taking responsibility for that. I think that Reinhart's influencing these things is very strong and she's really playing into the politics.

14:43Equally, I think Hastie believes that the secret harbour by election, the West Australian state seat, that overlaps with his federal electorate of canning shows that the political wins are against him. So I think he's feeling the pressure at the moment and one nation are enjoying putting pressure on him as much as possible. So you've brought us to what's been happening over the last week. Is this existential for Andrew Hastie now? Is he going after one nation and his reputation because he feels like he has no choice if he wants to win his seat at the next election? I think there's a few things going on. I think the first is that political reality on the ground, I think Andrew Hastie would know that it's going to be tough in his seat. So I think the election results show that Hansen's position in the polls is really strong and that's an existential crisis for liberals and nationals all over the place. And it's a threat for some labour MPs as well. That's the first thing.

15:43I think on a point of principle though, he believes that fighting back against one nation is important. I think he sees Pauline Hansen and her insurgent party as not good enough for the Australian electorate. He sees failings with Hansen herself and I think he feels justified in fighting back in the example of the Robert Smith stuff. Hastie feels like he did nothing wrong. He followed the rules of the court in giving evidence as he was required to do. And he wants to hold his record up against someone like Pauline Hansen or her strategist James Ashby's record. He points out that neither have served in the defence force. So I think there's a principled thing and a political reality as well. What's really clear at the moment is that in terms of the public profile, Andrew Hastie is looming larger than Angus Taylor, the opposition leader. But as you sort of talk to people within the party, is there an element that Andrew Hastie is maybe doing what people think Angus Taylor should do?

16:46Or are there real divisions in the party over this? Every time Angus Taylor stands up to give a press conference, there are questions that start with Pauline Hansen has said X and Y. What do you think? And Andrew Hastie has said AB&C. What do you think? So I think that shows the political challenge for Angus Taylor. And I do believe that there are plenty of people in the party who are looking at Andrew Hastie and thinking if Angus Taylor falls over, he's our man. Equally, others are thinking we should knock off Angus Taylor if he can't improve his position in the polls for someone like Andrew Hastie. So undoubtedly the opposition dynamics are playing out. Is there a split in the party as well that people are thinking it's such a mistake to go after Pauline Hansen and you're going to upset one nation voters? I believe there is. I think some liberals think that they should take Hansen on with the kind of force that we're seeing from Andrew Hastie. But there are others who think that winning back one nation voters or possible one nation voters back to the liberals and nationals means a bit more nuances necessary.

17:52For example, you know, putting out policies that would appeal to them instead of directly engaging with Hansen and one nation, that tension is playing out. I don't know what the answer is there and we probably won't know until the election, but there are some liberals who fear that they could alienate people by directly engaging with Hansen. You've mentioned Andrew Hastie's leadership. Possibilities there that some people still look to him as someone who might take over after Angus Taylor. But does Andrew Hastie have real issues here if he doesn't have support of Gina Reinhardt, Kerry Stokes as well for the chairman of seven West media. And there's even suggestion that the liberal president Tony Abbott, there's some issues with their relationship there. I mean does Andrew Hastie really need those big players to back him if he's ever to take on the leadership? If you were to take on the leadership, those challenges would be serious. Abbott is a good example of the change that's happened in the Liberal Party in recent times.

18:54Abbott was a big supporter of Hastie and the two were quite friendly, I think. But there are on different sides of the Ben Roberts Smith divide. And I think Tony Abbott is of the view that Angus Taylor is the better leader at this point. I don't think that any of those challenges would necessarily be insurmountable. For example, if the opposition leadership became vacant, I think Hastie would still be the front runner. But they would be challenges to overcome. And on the immediate question of holding onto his seat, I think the media forces that you describe, the Reinhardt's, the Stokes, the threat of one nation is all playing into a particular tempest for him. And I would imagine that would be focusing the mind. Now of course, we're more than a year out from the next election most likely. And it's possible that the dynamic shift between now and then. But my sense is that Andrew Hastie isn't going to die wondering. He thinks that fighting back now forcefully, engaging directly with one nation, regardless of the forces behind the scenes like Reinhardt or Stokes is the best way forward.

19:59The position of Tony Abbott is interesting. He's an unconventional choice for the federal presidency of the party. And even in recent weeks, that's been awkward for Angus Taylor, his close ally. Abbott has spoken out on some policy issues which have been difficult for Taylor. So look, I think there isn't a perfect solution here. But you'd have to say if the leadership became vacant today, Hastie would be the strong front runner. Tom, this is absolutely one to watch. Thank you so much for talking to us today. Thanks for having me, Regid. Great to be with you. That was political editor Tom McElroy. This episode was produced by Taylor Strano, sound design and mixing by Lou Hill. The executive producer of Full Story is Hannah Parks. Don't forget to subscribe or follow Full Story wherever you listen to podcasts. You can also leave a review. I'm Regid Ahmed. See you soon. You have options when forming a business. The attorney who charges more than your revenue, the online forum where strangers argue what's right.

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