Kit Harington

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1:00with the iconic horrors you love to fear and an all-star cast reprising fan favorite roles. Light your candles, draw your pentagrams, and prepare for a supreme surprise. FX's American Horror Story 13 now streaming on Hulu. Have you sorted yourself? Have I well sorted yourself? What house are you in? Oh, yeah, yeah, I'm Gryffindole. Yeah, yeah, obviously. You know, like that's the most and something question. But as we ask, I'm not slithering, Josh. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Gryffindole. So just back off. Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused, begins. Hey guys, it's Josh. Welcome to another edition of Happy, sad, confused, today on the show. It's Kit Harrington. Yes, John Snowes in the house talking not only Game of Thrones, but Harry Potter, Marvel, a tale of two cities, and more. Thanks guys, as always for checking

2:05out the podcast. Remember to subscribe if you haven't already, YouTube, Spotify, whatever podcast platform you're using. I appreciate you guys. And remember to check out our Patreon. If you like what I do, if you want early access to what I do, bonus materials, all the sorts of fun stuff that support Happy, sad, confused, check out patreon.com. Slash Happy, sad, confused. Okay, so main event today, we always have a first time guest on the pod. And this is someone that it's long overdue to have Kit Harrington here. But to be fair, he hasn't really done much in the way of podcasts. So I really appreciate him taking the time to do this today. There was a ton to talk about. His new project is a tale of two cities. It's on NGM Plus. And of course, it is based on the Charles Dickens classic. But you know, I'm going to talk about Game of Thrones and Marvel and Harry Potter. It all comes up here and Kit is in a great place in his life now. Well, he's been through what he's talked about it openly, dealing with addiction issues way back when and coming out the other side and now being a dad, having a great career going, just being happy and well adjusted. It was great to see him in good spirits today and have a great career

3:07chat about so many, so many cool projects. So a brief intro today because we're going to get to the main event. I hope you guys enjoy this. Remember to check out a tale of two cities on NGM Plus and enjoy this conversation with me and Kit Harrington. Kit, shall we do this? Yeah, this didn't. Welcome to the podcast, man. Thank you. It's good to see you. It's been a minute. And I know you don't do a ton of this kind of thing. So I really appreciate you, like the on-form stuff. So I think this is the second podcast I've ever done. I appreciate the trust. Yeah. So I'm sorry if I'm terrible. You're going to kill it. You're going to kill it. I think the first time I met you was briefly for you. You came to MTV Studios for Testament of Youth. That's my that's my recollection. You were a little intimidating to me back then. Really? You were. I've I've I've I'm I less intimidating now. Now you're whatever. I'm like, Kit coming in. No, I don't know. I think you project. I don't know. What do you think you project into the world? Like do you feel like you've you have kind of a demeanor that you consciously or unconsciously

4:09project? I think he's changed. Yeah. I think I tried to project something but probably around that time into the world. Maybe that might have made me that came across as intimidating. I don't you were perfectly lovely. Don't get me wrong. He was not nothing rude about you. But yeah, sometimes you know, it's an energy thing and maybe at that time you were you were in the height of a lot of things. Yeah. I think I was trying to project some sort of gravitas. Is that right? And some sort of some seriousness. And now? Now I don't really care. I've been too long in the teeth now. We were catching up in terms of like where you're out in life and work. Busy being dad, obviously, the two kids doing the press stuff. We're telling two cities that we'll talk about. I also seem to be working quite a bit. I feel like you've been in the city a bit. Have you spent a lot of time in our fair city? New York? I was here for a good few months earlier this year filming a TV series for Hulu called Count My Lies. And yeah, we moved the family over here. I was here throughout the whole

5:12next run, which is amazing. Come on. Did you jump on the bandwagon? Yes, I did. I went to game four. I know. So lucky. I was that so cheeky as well. I had no right to those tickets. You knew I had zero right to do this. Have you ever been to a basketball game before? No. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Well, maybe like one at the next like previously. But I was not, you know, I was I was passing people in the street on the way there that like die hard next fan. Yeah, crying. I did. There was a bit of guilt that I was getting to go. But I now know you got to consider myself you better quite a serious next fan. What did you know? It was going on. Did you know the basic rules of the sport? Yes. By the end, I was really cleared up. Yeah. No, I'm starting to resent you. No, I'm starting to get angry. I resent me too. I would resent me. No, not at all. What is your relationship to New York? I mean, it's like I always feel like the twin cities London and New York. I grew up in New York. I love London. I feel like folks. I don't know. There's a symmetry there in some ways. I find it. I love it. I find it. I mean, it sounds like the most obvious thing. I find it quite

6:17intense. Yeah. Like I it's about three notches faster than my general pace of life. Okay. And so I can I can deal with it for for a few weeks. But then after that, I find that my I'm an anxiety ridden person anyway. My anxiety is up. Yeah. And I and I have to you. And then questioning why that is and I go, maybe it's the city and then I step out and I'm okay. But I love coming here. Yeah. And it has it kind of like it gives me a fix. But I do also love leaving. You've never I don't think you've done theatre here. Have you? You've done so much theatre in your life? No. Is that is that not a I mean again, for the reason you just described, maybe it's not a priority. But still there's something about ringing your talents here on the stage. It will be exciting. No. There's been times and there's been times there are I've done a show in London that you know, there's been talk of it transferring or coming to New York. I've nothing against Broadway. I would love to do some Broadway or off Broadway or whatever.

7:20I think it is now it's a practical element for me. It's too young kids. They're in school. It means uprooting everyone for a long time. It's difficult. No, it's difficult to factor that to factor that in nowadays. Yeah. Yeah. Did you come to the States a lot as a as a kid? Like what was your relationship to? No. My first the first time I ever came to America or was to New York. I did this trip down the East Coast. I was 18 and I came by myself and I went New York. It's not very long trip. New York, Washington, Philadelphia, or New York, Philadelphia, Washington. Sure. Sure. Sure. It's not yeah. It's it's you got some major landmarks out of the way. Yeah. That's good. Yeah. Yeah. Some of the yeah. And it was it was it was amazing. I remember feeling like I'm walking onto a film. I fell in love with New York then. Yeah. But yeah, it's a little bit in the misty in the misty part of my memory. Were you were you watching our silly sitcoms or silly pop culture?

8:20Were you as much engaged with American pop culture as stuff back home? Yeah. Yes. I think it sort of was limited in my childhood to the Chicago Bulls. Yes. So there we go. See? So I am a. And it is in my blood. The Chicago Bulls. What was my childhood memory of America? US Chicago Bulls. Friends. Sure. Of course. Yeah. And like and maybe that's it. And like just vague. You've signed up on America. I don't know. I know. That's whatever the word is in America, file. I'm not like. Yeah. But I remember it feeling like. Rome. Like like being the center of the world. Sure. And and I think if you have kind of born and raised in the West like I was, yeah, it would have had a kind of mythical place. Yeah. The reason that you've come in today is I was complimenting you before

9:24a tell of two cities. Is it ambitious piece of work as you would hope it would be based on the source material. This is on MGM plus. Where were you at when this one comes around? I mean, I would imagine like it's often as much about like where you are at in your life, what you're looking to do lifestyle wise as the material sometimes that this catch you at the right time in terms of what you were looking for or this was a long process. Yeah. About 10 years ago, my producing partner and best friend Dan West and I we did a show called Gunpowder. Right. Another period piece. And that was the first thing we produced in our company. And after that was done, we started knocking around other ideas and it was quite quickly that we landed on the idea of doing tell of two cities because we just felt it had not that Dickens, we love Dickens and we were both big fans of the book and but it felt like every Dickens that there was had been trotted out almost yearly. Yeah. But tell to cities haven't been done since the 80s. It's funny.

10:27I was thinking back to this. It's like I can actually think of like a definitive recent or even ancient kind of depiction of it and not a successful depiction of it. It's a difficult one to to adapt. There's the reason perhaps. Yeah. But it's the reasons it was difficult to adapt. We isolated to being okay, you have these two central characters around this central character of the female central character and then meant to be identical. Right. The doppelgangers. Right. And that's always like, pose the question of okay, do you have the one actor playing the same parts? And I think that never works. Right. Not tempting to you because like a lot of actors will be like, oh, not tempting at all. Really? Double the number of days. I'm thinking fratical. And just like, my ego is big enough. I don't need to play too well. The time horror did you all the double roles? I just think it never works. I think it's a really hard thing to pull off and I don't think it works. Yeah. So there was that, that's one reason we felt it hadn't really been done. And Dan sort of posed the idea that you only need these guys to be similar enough. Yes.

11:34That in a court of law, you can throw up a reasonable doubt and that towards without spoiling it towards the end, there can be a moment where they get confused for one another. Right. And the other problem with it is it's bilingual. That you've got the tell to cities, it's French and English, but we felt that now audiences have a much greater capacity for reading subtitles. So we felt that this was the time to do it. And once you get past those two issues, the story is fantastic. Yeah. It is a sweeping romance in the backdrop of the bloody revolution. It's got all of the elements to make a great entrancing, pulsive period drama. And then you've got to try and sell the thing. And is that difficult? Period drama is difficult because people love them. Once they come to screen, people really enjoy the period nature or something. But they're difficult to get off the ground at times.

12:36And that's why I took a little bit. But thankfully, we had a wonderful, company called Federation and then MGM Plus came in and they believed in it. So it's got a scale. It feels like it's a massive production again as you know, something like this would demand. Yes. I mean, it sounds like Gunpowder might have been a shift for you in terms of like realizing like to have some agency and crafting a production. Yeah. Do you get something more out of something like this like on powder where you have a seat of the table? Yeah. I love it. And I'm not interested particularly in, when you're doing your actors deals with things occasionally, they're like, the really big thing. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm not interested in that because I feel like if I'm an exec producer on something, I should be an exec producer on something. So I'm only interested in that regard coming in as an exec if I'm actually at the table. And with Dan and I stuff, we're there from work go, building it from the ground up

13:39and learning our craft as producers as we go. Still, we're still very green, I think. But yeah, I'm restless as a person and I find that I am unsatisfied sometimes. This is very greedy of me, but I'm unsatisfied just being an actor on something. The famous adage is that they put their paid or weights right there. That's what you're being paid for. I'm bad at waiting. I'm an impatient, restless person. So I find myself on sets muscling in and try and make directorial decisions. And I have to stop myself. And that's why I directed something recently. So I was like, really want to do that. You should go and direct something. But the producing is part of that. I'm really interested in that creative producer side, which says, okay, this is an amazing story. Can we build something out? But can I ask you because you mentioned directing. I saw the trailer for it. I don't think it's

14:40available on one yet. You did a short, among others, great Harry Melling. I just saw him in a film that one of these festivals, he's just so talented. It's amazing. Did that scratch that edge, that kind of like knight something in the undidirector side of things? What did you get out of that experience? Absolutely did. Yeah. Interestingly, it also gave me a new appreciation for actors. Because until that point, I'd be like, I was like, acting is actually not, you know, probably the easiest element of filmmaking. But I then, being on the other side of camera and watching what Harry was doing and Kira was doing, the two actors we had not in the short, you know, I would come in and I give some really crap, simple piece of direction. Like, okay, that was perfect. But could you try it with a bit of vulnerability? A bit more just up the vulnerable. And watching them take this bad dialogue I've written and upping the vulnerability in it and just it totally changing. You're going and knowing that I knew how to do that myself made me appreciate the art of acting.

15:45But the directing side, it was explained to me like this and I thought it was, this is a really good way of putting it. Miguel Sapochnik, who I worked with on Game of Thrones, and has become a good friend, guided me through it and he said, what you are is a fishing net. You put all the best people that you can find around you. And you catch their ideas as they go through. And I love that because I love being at the center of all these ideas coming to me and going, that's good. I'm not sure about that. Let's work on that one and just like twiddling here in there. Yeah, no directing is kind of like saying yes and no to a thousand actions essentially. And then that's how you're finding your own voice. But it's foolish to think you have all the answers like the best as to. And knowing when to trust in someone else's thing. Yeah. Yeah. More happy, say, confused coming up. Well, guys, if you're a happy, say confused fan, I'm going to bet you're an Outer Banks fan.

16:47And have I got the podcast for you? Check out Outer Banks, the official podcast. That's right. If you want the perfect companion to the final season of Outer Banks, this is the one for you. It's hosted by Rietchipho of Chicks in the Office, who was one of the original OVX super fans. And it's got everything you want and need in a deep dive into all things Outer Banks. It's got intimate interviews with all the core pose, Chase Stokes, Madeline Klein, Madison Bailey, Jonathan Davis, Carlisio Grant. Plus, it's not just about the final season. This one goes all the way back with the stars, really reflecting on their full journey with this amazing show that has changed their lives and maybe your life too. It's nostalgic and funny and sweet and crazy, just like this cast and this show. I've been listening and it's honestly the perfect, additive bid of OVX content any super fan could want. So check it out. You can watch Outer Banks, the official podcast only on Netflix or listen on Apple podcasts and Spotify. That's Outer Banks, the official podcast. Starting or growing your own business can be intimidating and lonely at times. Your to-do list may feel endless with new tasks and lists can easily begin to overrun your life.

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18:54$1 per month trial today at Shopify.com slash realm. Go to Shopify.com slash realm. That's Shopify.com slash realm. So back to this production from a character perspective, from an acting perspective, what's intriguing to you about Sydney? Kind of like an archetypal anti-hero in some ways. What do you get out of it from an acting perspective? I think he fascinates me. I mean, there's so much about him that I relate to personally like he's gone through or he's going through. He's an addict. What I really love about that character is he is a lawyer and always two steps ahead of everybody else. And he's two steps ahead of the reader or the audience. Right. And that's the thing he struggles with is that he's incredibly smart and almost two

19:59two smart for this world, which makes him very cynical and nihilistic. But I think the way I approached him and the I felt was the right way to approach him was at this point in the story, he is the only thing that keeps him going is the booze or being in a courtroom. And in walks this incredible entity of Lucy Manette. And he suddenly gets a new belief in life. The trouble is that he approaches it from an addict to his standpoint. So he looks at her to be his fix that she's going to fix everything for him. If they just are together, then that's going to be the thing that solves him rather than coming into it as an equal partnership. Now, I won't spoil the end for anyone, but the end is one of the most iconic

21:00endings in any literature. And if you are watching the show or going to come watch the show, please follow it through. Yeah, because the end is beautiful. But I think his realization at the end is about yeah, I don't have to say that. I don't want to spoil it for anyone who read the book. But it's about he does feel completed in the choices he's making. I mean, it's interesting to hear you talk about parallels that you feel the character and you've been honest and open about dealing with your own issues in the past, an engine, etc. I mean, is that scary for you to kind of like go to characters that share some of that stuff that you've reckoned with yourself because like you can go another way. Like, I don't want to fucking even think about that. No, I love it. I realized I love it. And you know, I did a couple of seasons on industry. I'm filming that as well at the moment with a character who has to delve into that stuff as well. And I've realized that it's a way of getting, it's now fun.

22:08And I'll get to have fun, a Sydney, sozzled in a bar or Henry, you know, doing lines or like whatever it is. Like I get to like really exorcise something without the consequences that you want to have to do without the consequences of drinking or whatever it is. So yeah, no, I also think that, you know, I have this belief that any good character is addicted to something. Yeah, I think it's built into all drama. Built into all humans. Like we're all we all have our addiction. Some manifest in different ways. And I suppose some personalities just were wired differently. Some have more addictive personalities generally. But yeah, so there's always a call it what you want. They're super objective. Whatever it is. There's something that they desperately want. And I look at that almost as from an addict's standpoint, what is he, what is he addicted to? Yeah, you know, it's usually pretty clear. It's a person or a

23:12thing or an objective or a, you know, he's hunting the truth or he's addicted to himself. Yeah. Like whatever it is, like it's it's there. And then you've got your kind of, your call kind of principle to the person. That's interesting. It must like kind of clarify your purposes in actor. Like once you kind of walk in, like what is the reason for this person to get up and, you know, out of bed. Yeah. What are they driving towards? It kind of like answers a lot of questions. Yeah, it does. And I often find if I'm reading a script and I can't see it, I'm like, I don't know how to play that. Yeah, right. Yeah. I don't know how to play this. I don't know what this person wants. Yeah. And there's probably something either wrong with the script or it's just a part that's not for me. Right. All right. Since we have the luxury of time, if you'll indulge me, let's go back a little bit. So young kit, which was asking this to, I asked this to do a lot of guess like extrovert introvert, where it was a clear, very early on to those in your friends and family that like you were going to be a performer or did that come weight. I think he probably was, I think definitely extrovert. Yeah. I would describe myself still and then as anxiety ridden

24:19extrovert. Maybe I think I think I was, I was quite loud and verbose as a kid and me, me, me, and look at me and wanted attention and enjoyed attention. Yeah. I had a very busy brain always and wanted to be heard a lot. So yeah, I think I'd like to say I'm, I'd like to say I'm introverted, but I'm not. I'm extroverted, but incredibly socially anxious at the same time. How did anxiety manifest when you were a kid, when you were a teenager or like in what kind of situations? Like is it is a teenager like I'm very um, you know, I think that I would I would crawl off into a into a cupboard and hide. This is a metaphorical cupboard. No, no, real cupboard. If I was in a social situation, I would go to a party. He is in his cupboard. Yeah, yeah, I would often be found

25:20like just kind of like breathing because it all got too much. Yeah. But I think I'm one of one of those whatever that is and one of those. But I was as far as being an actor or in or creative. I always sort of assumed I actually have a distinct memory of wanting to be a journalist and then and then I looked at some some old school stuff and like age 12 I'd written and said what do you want to be when you grow up and I said an actor? Not just really clearly. Yeah. And I think that was my A plan and B plan. Yeah. It was on my A plan is actor. Yeah. But my like that that is incredibly who becomes that? How does that happen to make a life out of it? Yeah. And what else I'm interested in? I'm interested in journalism. Yeah. So that was kind of my kind of B plan in some way. What were you? Did you have posters on the wall? Or there are all icons or all iconography? It was like Bob

26:22Mali, Dylan for are there any actors? I'm sure like I'm sure. Why am I why am I drawing on the name of Marlon Brando? Of course. Like it was all big but my whole bedroom was covered every inch of it was covered with artwork or posters and they were all posters of quite I of icon icons really. Yeah. And both in the acting and the music world. Were there did you have a genre of film you gravitated towards? Were you into kind of like you know genre stuff? Obviously you end up working in a lot of genre fair. Was that your bag as a kid too? Not really. No, no it wasn't. I always liked a horror movie there. Yeah. And I still do what's your good head this big year for horror? Have you got up with obsession? I loved obsession. I thought obsession was brilliant. It's exactly the type of

27:23horror I like as well. Yeah. And they were both the two leads and that were both incredible. Yeah. I think she is she he is well but no indeed. There was something about her that was just that was an emagnetic performance. Yeah. I love that film. Trying to think have you done horror? I'm biking. I'm trying to think. I did I did a very long long long time ago. I did a movie based on the video game. Well Silent Hill. Silent Hill. Silent Hill Revelation 3D. That'll just not. That'll just not. Other than that. I took on a time when you were. I did one I did baby Ruby. Was a kind of interesting. I was a lovely kind of little kind of horror thriller I did. That's what we talked about. That's what we talked about in Toronto. Yeah. It was that. We were trying to remember when we were a baby Ruby. Yeah. Silent Hill gamer. Clearly not. You couldn't come up with the name of it. Were you a gamer? No. No. I know not a gamer. Not a gamer. I don't know why.

28:29I feel like I played the only game I've ever played really. Was Mario Kart and Diddy Kong Racing and some Tekken. Sure. And then recently the Harry Potter game. That was the thing I've played. I'll get to that obviously. Not Grand Theft Auto. Everyone's going to be talking about Grand Theft Auto. No, but I do want to play that. I've seen it. I've seen it. I've advertised it. It's going to be bigger than any movie this year. You know how much it's going to be? It's a good joy. It's brilliant video of these guys. There's a video on YouTube that these guys like pretending they're in. Have you seen that? No. It's so good because of how real the graphics are now. Yeah. There's videos of people actually walking across the street like as in the game. And then beating someone up in it's brilliant. Amazing. More happy, second views coming up. FX's American Horror Story Returns for an unrivaled 13th installment

29:34with the iconic horrors you love to fear and an all-star cast reprising fan favorite roles. Light your candles, draw your pentagrams and prepare for a supreme surprise. FX's American Horror Story 13. Now streaming on Hulu. What are you doing? Setting up my pole. I need to go viral to earn extra cash. And you're going to help me. Here, start filming when I say. Seems like a lot when you could just depop all those boots. Ah, resell socks. They take such a big cut. There's no selling fees on D-Pop and it's easy to list. Oh, really? Huh, easy. Make money on D-Pop with no selling fees. Download D-Pop and start selling today. Okay, so was there performance you saw on stage or film that really made an impact on you

30:38growing up that kind of cemented the cause? Yeah, there were a few. There was, I always admired D-CAP. I always loved what he did. It's from a kind of like big movie star perspective, like watching him in Romeo and Juliet was a big formative thing. I've never heard him refer to as D-CAP. This is like D-CAP. You never heard D-CAP? No, at first I was like, I don't know what the fuck he's talking about and then I got it. You don't call him D-CAP? It's just Leo. It's just Leo. That makes you sound like a no-in. D-CAP sounds like he's a rapper. Like what's the D-CAP? Yeah. D-CAP. So what were the D-CAP performances again? Romeo and Juliet, of course. Yeah. And you're going to have to help me out with names of things. You're okay. Gilbert Grape. What was the one he did where he was a basketball director? Basketball's the theme today. You were a die-hard basketball player. Turns out I was. Yeah. Turns out I won't let D-CAP ever. No, he won't pass me once. Yeah.

31:40And I sort of half smiled. And he half smiled at me. And I always regret not full of bother him. Yeah. Yeah. But I always regret. Next time you say D-CAP. What what up? D-CAP. It's good. How are over here? Okay. So that's an inspiration. It kicks in. I mean war horses the game changer. I would assume that's that the one that really kind of puts you on the map in terms of... I mean that was my first job. I had my trajectory out of drama school was unreal. I got war horse while I was in my third year of drama school. So I knew I was leaving and two weeks later I'll start rehearsals to be the lead alongside the puppet. It's a much more importantly in the national theatre. I'll great theatre in London. Yeah. I still to this day don't think I've ever jumped higher than when I got that role. Right. There's never anything like that first moment, right? Yeah. Just to be

32:45just to be spear carrier number three at the RSC would have been enough but to be the lead on the Olivier stage people work their whole careers to to do that. And I walked out of drama school into that role. And it's that show was remarkable. I mean it's I didn't see I didn't see it. I didn't see it. I saw it here in New York eventually. Yeah. But I mean it's a historic production obviously. It was still it still lives in my memories being one of my like my all-time great jobs because the audience reaction during it was astounding. And you got to feel it and witness it. And it really was it was truly truly wonderful theatre. Did you go up for the Spielberg film? Was that even in the cards? I did I think and I and I didn't I didn't obviously didn't get it. But I remember like leaving Warhorse and at the time you know especially my dad thought that was mental. He was like why are you leaving a job? And as I know I have to I've been doing it for a year. And then a lot

33:48of stuff kind of came in. I had American agents by that point and so you know the Warhorse the movie was happening. Then I then thrones came along. Yeah. And so I was I was in I was in that world. Was there a close call before thrones in terms of like were you going up from major? I went Warhorse then thrones. I auditioned for thrones while I was in Warhorse. So I that's what I mean I went boom boom boom. Crazy. But I remember there being some like so everything had gone well. And then I remember like I was probably very hebristic within and I remember going up for a film called Arthur and Lance Lot. Right. Which never happened. That was never happened. But I assumed oh now you go theatre, major TV, Hollywood film. Of course that's how it works. You weren't like everybody else some humility along the way they're gonna be ups and down. And then I realized that that and then that never happened. And I was like oh I remember that being bit crushing. But yeah. Yeah. That's good for me that didn't happen. Good to learn that at some

34:52point for all of us. Right. So look thrones obviously can take up an entire conversation. But like it's such a huge part of your life and for personal and professional reasons I would imagine. I mean when you think back to I mean can you kind of like slice it up into different periods of time? Like do you remember the first year or two when it just exploded out into the world and just how that changed your life and practical terms and how you reckoned with it? Yeah. I can and I can't like I think it was a slower build than people sort of remember. Really? I mean it really exploded after season three. Okay. But back at the start it was a obviously a big show that they were pouring money into and it had done well. But it was still a kind of fringe show. People were like heavy into breaking bad I think. Sure. And Game of Thrones was the kind of upstart one coming along here. Yeah. But no I sort of always assumed that it would

35:53never get another season until like until we got to like season five where where it kind of was inevitable. It was going to carry on. But I just I just I played each season like each season and but yeah it I look back and I and we talked earlier about sort of like putting up a front or like I think I just look back and I just really all of this all of the fresh stuff was very alarming. You were you were you by necessity were playing a role you were playing this is how you're supposed to be. Yeah. In this kind of environment. I'm really cool. I'm really collected. I know what I'm doing and the inside I'm. I want to go and stand in the cupboard. In the cupboard. Yeah. Well by nature and you've talked about this like that role also not wasn't just the show it was the role and everything that people put upon you as that character. Yes. Yeah. And you had this like bifurcation this like this connection with like I'm not that guy no one's that guy but I'm certainly not that guy. I'm sorry. Yeah. Well this it's weird. You like I think that happens to a

36:58lot of actors and but especially if the if the role is so so seen so known by you know it that and you look like it the whole time people do sort of. Yo John Snow. You got that. You got like you get you get a lot of that and you're like hello actually I'm just to you know I try to get my coffee. Yeah. But you do yeah there's a there's a there's a way of personality. That happens. Is do you still get the Yo John Snow's do you still get the I know you know nothing. Yeah. Yeah. You've reconciled that you're going to hear people scream you know nothing until the day you die. I know how by day. Yeah. You've come to that. You've come to that because I again I've talked to many actors that have these iconic roles associated with them and it's a journey. There's that period of time probably where you feel like really today like yeah I could use today off from it and then you kind of go to the other side and become appreciative hopefully and I think I need to do some other stuff

38:01like outside of it and it's been a number of years and I've done all these these different things. Some have been seen more widely than others but I've done enough of them now that I don't just feel to find that that character. Yes. And of course I'll always be asked about him and I'll always be yelled out in the street hopefully. Well I won't always there'll be a point where people aren't and I'll be like well what happened what happened. But um there's a lot of them yelling it in the street this is the amazing I genuinely find this amazing that like I'll get like a 20 year old yell it and I'm like you just watching you're showing like yeah man just came in you're like that's wicked. It's still got a life it's still people are still watching it that's amazing. In our in our in our world now we're things a lot yeah onto the next. The next sort of watching that. It's quite incredible. Yeah. I rewatched that like famous table read of the final episode where you would say it didn't you you deprived yourself of knowing

39:04the end until that moment. Yeah. I took this day of compliment whether that was laziness or whether I don't know whether I think I didn't I intentionally did because I wanted to hear it. It's amazing to watch you react in real time and connect with Amelia across the table. I mean do you remember what I mean I guess we can see it on your face. Well I remember telling everyone stupidly when I walked in that was like I haven't read it. I was like I haven't read it so I want to hear it and then they were like what you see all the BTS guys going okay well let's get this footage. Right. You know the focus was on me. I was like what the you know but I yeah it was um but there's something sweet about seeing like your authentic yeah like sadness and regaining. Everything to us by then it was like the characters were everything to us and the and the story was everything so a gut punch like that. Yeah. As gut punches it was for everyone else is kind of even yeah even bigger for us I think. So the famed spin-off is not happening but

40:05you went down that road. I mean it sounds like you went down it for a while. How come to come to happening. I mean I don't know I think we developed it for developing it for two two years or so. Yeah and I still think there's a world in which something could work. I wouldn't have gone into it in the first place if I didn't but I was very insistent at the start and and they were as well H.P.O. and George of like if this doesn't if we didn't find the right thing let's not do it. Right. It's a much much better we don't and after a little while of of thinking about it we I it I kind of was me when I look out I think I think this isn't quite the right time. Yeah you want to either feel it you don't want to go into that yeah. And I'm quite sure I think it was right because I know you've discussed before I've gone and done all these other things and now I feel more comfortable with yes that character in that world again in in where it sits in my life. Totally. In terms of finding opportunities during that run was it tough for you to kind of like

41:10because you're it's that was a big job it took a lot of just space in your life. In retrospect when you look at the things that you took the the pumpays etc only trying to find the best material possible I don't know how do you look back at that kind of like what you were prioritizing and what you were able to accomplish in those years. I think you always have during the my 20s during the game thrones years you had six months on yeah and six months off and and within that six months off window you had to find something that actually fit in that time and that wasn't other TV because you weren't allowed to do that right so it was either a play which you did a lot of yeah or it was a film and I'm really I'm always proud of everything I've done genuinely yeah there are some that works and some that maybe didn't but they all taught me something

42:11and I have distinct wonderful memories of Pompeii like and I think there are a lot of people who come up and go I love Pompeii great and and probably a lot of people you don't but I I I sort of I am I have fond memories of of it but I you had to fit something you had to find something to fit into that window and it's and that's not always like easy to find the kind of it was all big learning experience really yeah but I was sort of like a hit oh kind of weird hero character then right well the theater especially it seems interesting and it's how I wasn't able to see you do like Dr. Faustus in True West which is one of my all-time favorite productions was wonderful and what you did one of the alternate you did the alternating roles no we didn't no no no no no okay no I was Austin and Johnny and Johnny was Lee yeah special piece of material I know I would imagine like to just like own the stage with one other actor with the image material not to link it back but I am going to link it up please tell two cities here because I think there is a link between those two pieces and I think it's it's always interesting when a writer does

43:12this but in in true West Sam Shepherd yeah both those characters are him they they he's clearly split his personality between the writer yeah the sozzled writer and the and the crazy guys trying to put he split his personality that's writing two versions of him Sam Shepherd and Dickens does the same in tell to cities is that both Dane and Carton Dickens at the time was having an affair with a younger woman he had many affairs I think but the time he was really in factuated with this younger woman and I believe that Sidney and Dane had two versions of Dickens makes sense there's the sozzled shameful guilt written nihilist side which is his side thinking about him having an affair in this younger woman and then there's a heroic kind of French aristocrat Dane who he sort of wants himself to be and I think there is I think there's something fascinating in in

44:14tell to cities that it's it's two versions of Dickens he's writing that's why they're doppelgangers I mean if you wrote the kid Harrington biopic it would be the extroer and the guy the cupboard that's the they're both him there's my next film right I'm giving you some source material of the film just in a cup it's cheap small sets um you end up in the Marvel universe and in abbreviated fashion who knows what the future holds but when you look back at that like how did that how was that presented to you was there a full plan for your character that Kevin Feige presented when it came up I met Kevin for a general a while before that came up and he was he said we really love to find something and then and then it yeah it was presented in like this is you know how they do in the Marvel universe they'll they'll throw a character in and then see if it goes anywhere or see if like they introduce him here and um and in the end it it didn't and I think

45:14that that's always the that's always the the way of things is that they they're sort of testing to see if it if there's something they want to play with and there was always the idea it might yeah I think he's a really interesting character totally he's one of he's a fascinating talking of addiction and all that I think there's something fascinating to play with the black night and I felt this from the start that the Ebony Blade is is one that he uses and then gets bloodlust yeah and I think there's an there's an interesting story of someone going from hero to villain right there so you know anyone from Marvel watching but I I do think it's a fascinating it could be a fascinating um story but they got so much they got a lot yeah was but I mean there was talk at some point like this midnight sun's idea was that ever communicated to you that like you would be in a film with Mahershala no no no yeah but there were all sorts of ideas that might but nothing isolated of kind of um yeah communicated no were you ever there was one rumor even I think that

46:16predated that that like you were on the list for for Batman every actor every actor plays hamlet or Batman at some point and they're like I love these lists I love these lists of like it's a good list to be on yeah yeah yeah I mean as far as you know where you want a list I think I met someone early on but I think it was like when I heard it was Robert Pattinson I was like yeah of course let's see she gui full but you did have a meeting it sounds like uh I can't you know what how do you forget that you had a meeting about Batman no I genuinely I can't I feel like I'm trying to wrap my brain there was some meeting in L.A. at some point you have a lot of meetings about a lot of things sure I would in my diary wrote I met about Batman maybe this is why I didn't get the job so I said what's this job for again it's what you lost as parents as kids that's horrible that's like trauma god that sounds like it's a right idea you guys should you guys should stick with you should stick with that back guy um you mentioned we mentioned at the outside uh industry that's

47:18gotta be a gift to jump into something like that were you found out of industry before you joined I loved it I still love it I think it's I think it's brilliant um it's one of the funnest jobs I've ever done yeah it has a really very fond place in my in my heart um and I'm still filming it sort of now I bring the final season right to the final season right we know that for sure I guess yeah and um and I think it's gonna be cracking yeah I I I I I making corn I think that they are just insanely talented writers yeah um much much smarter than any of us it must be security also in like jumping into something that like you already know works and just like your job is just to fit in and not muck up the rest of it in a way with that's a big duty though like I remember coming in and especially as a fan of it and they had done two seasons and I came in in the third and I was like I could ruin a show that I like because because I'm coming in at sort of muscled

48:19my way into this show well I didn't quite but I got invited in but also was thrilled to be there but like it was like I could really mess this up right like and that would be horrible that might be a career ender for me personally I like if I come into a show I like and so actually the pressure was much higher than interesting that makes sense yeah well now hopefully you're not gonna mess up Harry Potter because I know that you're in dear to you very dear like true like this is legit you are hardcore Harry Potter all the way I am yeah I am I and I'll tell you why which is that I was when I was a kid and then I found a place for it as an adult and I know a lot of people have this which is that I listen to the Stephen Fry audio but right and I do that because I'm I have a my brain is incredibly busy especially at night and I've always found going to bed very difficult like it and my brain doesn't turn off and when I got sober that got especially bad right and

49:19and so I started listening to Harry Potter audiobooks and now they're the thing I listen to every night and they just I help you yeah so they they have a very special place in my heart and when I knew they were doing this show I was I think that's a brilliant idea I think they can really delve into it further than the films did and I think I'm fully supportive of it and then got called to be in it and that was just a very simple kind of yes please and this character Gilder Roy Lockhart you know we talk about who they're what they're addicted to he's addicted to himself right I mean a very vain character it's just a tiny step to my left it's not it's not a hot finally we're seeing the true kit this is going to be the it's just there all I have to do is just take a four percent of the yeah and I'm there have you started to get into kind of like the look like cattle kind of approximate yes and I'm going to say very little about anything because it's it's highly secretive but but yes it's I'm I'm engaging with that as we as we speak so that's

50:24going to be a trip for you like to step into those sets in that world even for like yeah I've been on Game of Thrones I've been on Marvel sets like that's going to be yeah crazy yeah I think so I think so especially as I'm a bit of a nerd for it right and and I love it like I do and um have you sorted yourself what were you uh have I walked sorted yourself what what house are you in oh oh yeah yeah I'm Gryffindor you're Gryffindor yeah yeah yeah obviously you you wait that's the most insulting question as we ask I'm not slithering Josh you asshole yeah yeah yeah Gryffindor so I'm just back off have you been to Wizarding World where you at theme parks no I haven't done that okay there's there's a line there's not a theme park guy generally no no no no no I just I just think I I'm sure there's some Game of Thrones Harry Potter crossover and I think if I ended up a theme park it might get a bit intense where where are you at in terms of that's going to take up

51:27I would imagine a bit of your time your dad which takes up I would imagine probably most of your time yes as it should do yeah so um changing obviously this is the cliche but it's true it changes your priority in terms of like where you're gonna work how you're gonna work etc um what are you I don't know what are you looking for work wise right now or do you feel like you're sorted in terms of like I feel fulfilled I am what I was looking for work wise was something that would be close to home yeah so it could be a dad um uh more because I've struggled this year and I've been a way a lot yeah and Harry Potter came along um which films down the road for me so I I get to be a dad I get to go and play in a world I love yeah I genuinely right now I'm very content yeah yeah enjoying being being a dad this is yeah yeah yeah and and that's the main job and we should be the main job so um do you

52:30read them stories are you like yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah we have and we have wonderful voices we put on and I really perform them they're very lucky they've got two very talented performers as parents that can just do all the voices I would imagine we compete though this is the problem Rose step off I've got this wrong slot you'll get my boy will be like um I want mommy to read me a book tonight I'm like really you want mommy wow okay yeah I'll do better tomorrow I can try I could what do you do the big no okay what's your wheelhouse what's your in terms of the voices that you do that versus Rose I go big I go really big until I'm sort of shouting and they're like asking me to be a bit quiet it sounds like story time is really my ear it's really more for you than for them but they'll talk in the middle there's trouble about having actors as parents is that they'll be like daddy don't you got no no no no I'm I'm just in the middle of the just one second because I was doing the elephant so in a second like yeah that's going to be there and jury memories like daddy gave

53:37a performance yeah daddy daddy wanted a second tape and we had to listen yeah yeah it's a good problem that yeah it's nice okay we're gonna end with this happy second views for family random questions for you kid dogs or cats dogs do you collect anything I mean I feel like I do but what do I no that's fair that's fair do you have we talk video games before is there a favorite video game of all time ultimately um the Nintendo 64 James Bond oh yeah yeah like the Golden Eye yeah yeah yeah comes up a lot yeah yeah yeah we didn't you also do like a Call of Duty thing you did the yeah I was in yeah I did that for my brother because he's a bit cooler teaching correct you enjoy the mocap was that he just wanted to kill me in a video game so we did here's my gift to you yeah yeah yeah uh to put a Johnson ask me I ask everybody would you rather have a mouthful

54:37be is there one being your butt being the butt yeah correct um what's the wallpaper on your phone is my mom well asked actor you were mistaken for I'm always confused with Christopher Abbott oh really but I feel like he's a better looking version he's yeah I think he's coming in here like two weeks yes yes you can be like he's like he said what's the worst in the director has ever given you um yeah was that good yeah doesn't feel good yeah it doesn't feel good now in the spirit of happy second fuse an actor who always makes you happy when you see the monscreen oh gosh oh there's two sopids in it um oh I just could say Harry Melling because he does

55:38yeah he's great yeah great movie that makes you sad oh my god oh oh oh oh oh you got it was that one with I forgot all the names it's okay it's the one about the the the the man he meets his parents at the same age he is wait back to the future no no never cry back to the future no you know the one with um andry Scott oh yeah all of our strangers all of our strangers yeah I've wept like a baby doing that yeah yeah back to the future and the future and a food that makes you confused you don't get it why do people eat that kit um either either celery or licorice or um or like chocolate lava cake just too much no that's what I don't like like like any sort of fruit with chocolate oh

56:42I don't understand like berries and chocolate like chocolate gato like right that that give them separate separate yeah each fine but combined together no I'm the celery front I get it I don't see the point it's basically if you mix anything with chocolate right like if you mix like orange or like raspberry or any fruit right there's not a nut yeah with chocolate do you want never seen you so agitated yeah we've discovered something here today um okay full circle back to the point at hand congratulations on a tale of two cities it's on mgm plus uh well worth checking out everybody to check it out support kit as always um I'm so happy this happened I really appreciate taking the time especially because you haven't done a lot of this so it's all the more meaningful keep killing it and come back anytime thank you very much thank you for having me next dude and so ends another edition of happy sad confused remember to review rate and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts I'm a big podcast person I'm Daisy Ridley

57:47and I definitely wasn't shit did it's my job effects is American horror story returns for an unrivaled 13th installment with the iconic horrors you love to fear and an all-star cast reprising fan favorite roles light your candles draw your pentagrams and prepare for a supreme surprise effects is American horror story 13 now streaming on hulu