Lanterns - S01E07 - The Jordan Boys Legacy

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1:17Welcome to Comics Versus, we're the lore hounds. I think I must be shit in your jack. And we're here to talk about a television show. Actually, this is John. Hi, everyone. Hi, this is coverage of episode 7, season 1 of the show lanterns titled The Jordan Boys Legacy. It's our ultimate. Oh gosh, who is it? It's our ultimate show. Just a quick note, I am traveling. So I am on a different microphone. So the room acoustics may sound a little different. Hopefully you won't get too much of a bleed over from the endless sirens and the horn honking of the fabulous soundscape that is the city of New York. We're actually in the same... Not really. That's what's happening. We're actually in the same city, but we have not seen each other. Yeah, that's how it is to be in New Yorker. Oh, what?

2:18Traversing the burrows, man. It's a big thing. Quick PSA to my fellow New York City residents. When you're getting on and off to the whole... Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. Did you just say my fellow? Hey, I'm still... My Donnie Stons residents. Hey, man. My fellow. I still identify... We're going to have to talk about this. I still identify. I mean, the city. I'm here. I'm in the place where I used to live. I still feel... Uh-huh, uh-huh. But my brothers and my sisters on the transiting on the New York subway system... You know, you want to get off the subway. I don't want to take too many people's time here, but you want to get off the subway. You want to get on and get your seat and you want to get off and get off. You got to let people off the subway, man. You got to stay and clear them doors. Yeah. Good. Good. That's like headpiece. That's a headpiece. I almost lost it a couple of times today. Yeah, that's a pet peeve.

3:20Yeah. Like, get out the doors. Get out the way. That's... You know? Just float. Just float. Let the flow. Yeah. Step aside. It's all good. All right. All right. You know, enough of that. I don't know for that. Remember, uh, if you feel like you want to support the show and support all the work that we do here in the lorehounds, we would love to have your subscriptions. Link in the show notes, Patreon, uh, or Supercast. Both of them the same. If you want to get in touch with us and send us more feedback, comics and verses at the lorehounds.com. Link in the show notes as well. Discord conversation has happened in, uh, lots of good comments. A lot of people asking questions and, and make, and musings and, and, and, and sharing their musings about what's happening on the show. Uh, if you've got some musings, join in there. Uh, people are, yeah, it's good. Conversations going well. Uh, definitely be sure to check out all of our different affiliates. Alicia is finishing up her wool shift dust.

4:20Uh, her silo coverage on her wool shift dust podcast. Uh, the book club's going strong. Uh, she had a great interview with not only the writer of the books, but the showrunner of the show. Had them on both same time. Got to interview them. Incredible. Incredible. Fabulous get really, really great. Again, and for them to recognize the work that she's doing on that podcast, faithfully season in season out with the book, book club stuff as well. Like, uh, it's a really great gift for her. It's like, good for you, Alicia. She's, she put in the work and, you know, she, she grabbed that interview. So that's awesome. Uh, Dungeons and Duhacks are friends over. All also doing, uh, Lanterns coverage. So that's really going to be fun is when they do, uh, parallel rings of power coverage as well. I'm going to be listening in on that. But you and I are invited to go over to their podcast when Lanterns wraps up. We are still going to do our wrap up with Alicia and then, but we'll pop over to Dungeons and Duhacks.

5:21Have a little chat with them. Uh, also definitely check out Nevermind the Music. They are kicking off their season three podcast. John obviously is busy with the Cosmere Corner book read-along stuff. So go check out that if you're into the brand in Sanderson books. And of course, rings of power season three is coming back, which means that Maryland and Dr. Sarah Brown are doing their episode to episode coverage of season two of rings of power, but looking at all of the rituals that we see on screen. Deconstructing those and talking about the historicity of them, that what ritual means and all this great stuff. So it's a really great way to get into the show and get into, to talk and stuff, but also just talk about mythology and talk about what ritual is. So definitely go check out that. I think episode three will be dropping this Wednesday and they're going to run up one episode per week right up until the start of rings of power season three.

6:23Two last quick shout outs. Uh, corners reading list are green lantern liaison officer has an amazing list of if you're interested in getting into the comics, he's put that together. We put that as a Google document that's publicly available. The link is in the show notes. You don't have to go to a link to another link or anything like that. I'll just put it straight in the notes. And you can take that document and you could download it as a PDF or copy it into your Google thing, print it off, whatever. But it's a really amazing resource and at the very end of it, there's sort of like a combined sort of synthesized list for one of the main story lines. So if you want to check like you're like, whoa, there's like pages and pages of stuff here, just go to the very end and that's a good concise reading list for a subset of the stories. The last thing I want to shout out and I know you were talking on mic before we got started, you haven't checked out.

7:23This interview, but the midnight boys over on the ringer verse had an interview with a couple of the writers from lanterns Vanessa Baggen Kelly and Justin Britt Gibson. And I was listening to it on my commute this morning and I have to say it was an amazing conversation. It was so great to hear from these two writers who they're talking about their process. They're talking about how they were just pouring themselves into these characters, taking care of the characters, the different unlocks, different things like when they realized, you know, because the father was like, this is one little thing that came up was, you know, Lindelof and the other guys had written the pilot and they'd only seen the father and so Vanessa Bed and Kelly was like, so where's the mom? And she was like, yo, I'm a sports mom myself and I know how I'm into like trying to work with my kids to up there, you know, improve what they're doing on that kind of stuff.

8:27Like, what if the real prime motivator in John's family is burn a debt and boom, like, you know, they show you talks about that process and how like when they figured that out and how it unlocked a whole bunch of stuff. So it's really great to get into hearing a little bit about the approach and the feelings and the thoughts and just how does how does some of this stuff work? So it's a sausage get me and it's a really great conversation and I know midnight boys isn't everybody's favorite podcast, but this is a really cool interview. It's all of them and they're all, you know, doing questions with Justin and Vanessa, but it's like, it's just a really cool conversation. It's not a normal sort of banter and nonsense. So I'll check it out. Yeah, definitely. Cool. Okay. So for today, we're going to have our fresh takes. We're going to do our scene by scene. I think we're going to kick all feedback.

9:31And even the comics corner to Thursday night, I should be back home by then. That'll give us time to collect some more. We've already got some feedback. I noticed a couple of our Patreon users were actually interacting with each other of a tree out, which is great. Like a whole other like conversation was like getting sparked off. So we'll try to pull all of that in and we're going to cover all of that Thursday. So tonight we're just going to focus in on the show or the episode itself. So let's get into it. Fresh takes. Jean, what did you think of this episode? Just Kyle, Chandler and Aaron Pierre are just magnetic together on screen. They play off each other so well. And their conversations in this episode, the conversations between Hal and Junior are just so, so good. Kind of like Kingsley and Matin in Wonder Man.

10:37There's like an unexpected chemistry that occurs. Absolutely, absolutely. And I just love any time to tour the tour of them on screen together. I don't... We have one episode left. Dude, that's crazy. I have no idea how they're going to wrap this up. Is it going to be two hours? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know where the story is going. How is going to end? And maybe that's a good thing. No speculations, no musings, no predictions. No, no, no. Yeah. I'm excited to see how they plan on landing this plane.

11:41Because they've set up so many things, so many storylines, so many plots, so many interesting character developments. And we want to see so many things happen between these two men. And it's just, can they do it in one episode? Yeah. So yeah. I just... The planet that Anton came from, just amazing work. It looked tremendous. This might have been the one time that I said, oh wow. I was looking on the screen. And I actually like stopped and said, oh my, look at, wow. What is going on here? And it was really something special to view that they had the effects that they were able to pull off in this way.

12:42Yeah, they dumped a bunch of the budget into this particular episode. Into this particular, is that? This in episode five, I think, where the two big ones. Yes, yes. Because we have a bunch of new stuff going on in there. It was good to see that. I'm just part of me is super excited. And part of me is super led down that this show is about to end. Like, yeah. So we'll see. Yeah. And I really, every time a show that's wrapping up, they announced that season two's green lid writings, or whatever news production, or already in the writer's room, we've already got, you know, the episode map laid out, whatever. There's an excitement. And an investment that you get into the show. And whenever they don't release that information or tell us something,

13:42when we're getting to the end of a really satisfying season of television, there's just a little something that's missing. And I just wish that we would know if this is one and done season, mini series. Okay, cool. Call it. You know, that's fine. Let it be that. We'll look forward to the movie. We'll look forward to future, you know, projects, which you'll ensture at an air in Pierre. But just to like have this ambiguity is just such a dissatisfying experience. I think there was even some research out recently, where they're like, yo, the longer a show takes the get back, the more it, you're actually weakening your own audience building by not bringing shows back sooner. And so you get into this death spiral where like each season does a little bit worse.

14:43And then the studio is like, ah, we're going to let it go. And then we don't finish the story. And then it's like, ah, well, yeah, because you're not green lighting properties, properties in and off. You're not bringing, even if it does take you two years, that's fine. Just, you know, hit your two years and keep us informed and let us know. Yeah, it's coming. It's coming. You know, market it. Push it. Like let's, let's go. They just are weakening their own, um, the ground underneath them. Yeah. Those shows that come back on a yearly basis hold their audience retention. And they, you know, they get audience engagement. So I'm, I'm, I'm both nervous and sad because we do only have one episode and whatever we do, I feel I'm really confident that they're going to give us something that's really amazing. And I'm just kind of annoyed that it's like you have two great stars here. You're getting weekly growth. You know, the, the, I forget who it was, maybe Elon or somebody was posted in the discord that week on week minute watching is growing for the show.

15:48Each week is more. And it's like, that's crazy. Lean into it and, and build the excitement and build the fandom. And then if we know, hey, season two is coming back. Man, we're going to be there day one to watch that, you know, that new, new season. So anyway, sorry, I got off on a little tangent there. Uh, I just, they have, they have something good here. Air and Pierre is a star, Kyle Chandler, right? I don't know if we'll get care of Kelly McDonnell. If she'll survive this season or not, but you've got something here that's, that's worthwhile. And we've been enjoying it. And this is a great writer's room. It's an amazing writer's room. So, uh, and to that end, the skill at like weaving the backstory into the contemporaneous story. Yeah. Do that was so well done. The themes of the father of fatherhood, how they wove it all the way through. I was even thinking, God is, is John Jr. kind of a son to how?

16:53Right. Is there some fatherly stuff going on there, trainee, junior, you know, all that kind of stuff? Even Billy, like even we got some dad stuff from Billy, you know, it was like, oh, you're showing up with my son's, uh, hats ceremony. What have you? But to throw in on the penultimate, the backstory of how it was just, just kind of perfect. I did not know that I wanted that. And then after it was over, I was just like, oh, that's so great. And the way they ended it with him, go to get the baseball. And you think about the ring and like, well, how he doesn't want to let go of the ring. There's just so much there. It's just so rich. So well done. But then it's the same time too. At the same time, we just went from Nebraska to some alternate reality space. Who are we? Are we somewhere in this like, you know, there's a bunch of comic book stuff that we could probably talk about on Thursday. But is this one of these planets where they make weapons or something or it's in some antimatter or whatever galaxy?

17:56Because they're. But we went to it just in a flash, right? And then the whole episode was just completely something different. We went from the, you know, cowboy boots in the dust, you know, solving a murder mystery kind of thing to this intergalactic espionage mystery. And the only thing that I can think about it is kind of like one of those articulated buses, like the back of the bus is like following. And it's connected, but it has its own movement and it can flex around on its own, but yet it's all still one vehicle and it's all still connected. And it's just like, wow, the ability to scale from rush fill to that is is really something. Something special, something really, really cool. And then you throw in the great writing and the acting and you like carry McDonald's little double take when she's saying goodbye to Hal in the science room.

18:56But there's just like she does this little thing. Look over there kind of does. Huh? That together said a lot when she said, we'll go there together together. Yeah. And then she kind of looks back at how it's like there's like a just this that's when I was like, oh, that's the guilty moment. That's it right there. There's something more going on and it is just great or the lines about football like, yeah, you know, he's like the football game. You know, he's like the sports team that you, you know, it's always kind of just a quick like. So good. And then just the funny, just all the little funny stuff that's thrown in there. Like you were saying to have Chandler and Pierre on screen together. The chemistry is just too good. Just too good. And then I was so into the show like I didn't even register that, you know, that this could be Antann's planet or that the gas was what was causing him to have the hallucinations because I was just showing. I didn't see it coming.

19:56The only thing that I saw coming was when halogram says maybe I was trying to keep something in the vault. That's what I knew Sinestra was on the other side of the vault. In one way, shape or another. That was like the only thing I picked up. Otherwise, I was completely clueless to all the twists and turns because I was just so invested in what was just. Just watching the show. Yeah. Just watching show. Yeah. No, no speculations. No, trying to, you know, prove it out. Just let it right in the story. You know, you're in the story. Exactly. And just in what's happening on screen. And that feels good, right? When you feel transported. Yeah. So, yeah, just just really good. All right. Let's see this. Let's take a quick break. And then we'll come back and we will get into our scene by scene of the episode.

20:56This summer, don't squeeze in. Spread out. Find homes big enough for your whole guest list on Verbo. That's vacation rentals done right. Look your stay now. And we're back. All right. We go to 1975 for the cold open house baseball coach has called in Martin Jordan to discipline how. Martin chooses violence and later father and son share a bomb pop on the flight line. Martin gives his son a key and later we watch the funeral for how's dad. A bunch of stuff in here. And what did you, what did you make of this whole first of all, he got to kick that coach's ass. But it's just calling what it is.

21:56This is ridiculous. You know what I'm saying? Like, okay, he didn't want to give up the ball. But then the whole team jumps him and he's the only kid in the office. Like, come on man. We're not doing that. We're not playing these games. You're not doing that. But it's just how you like, you know, I almost had it. I'm not going to let it go. And that's it. So you see from a very young age, how who has difficulty with letting things go started all the way back then started all the way back then. And what's funny is that when you he's talking to his father, when they're sitting outside, eating the hops and whatever, I didn't get the feeling that his father was like that. No, his father is a different kind of man.

22:57Yeah. So it's interesting that he revered his dad, but he was not the same person. Yeah. That he didn't even really try to be the same person because how was just, yeah, he was not want to let shit slide. He's not going to let it go. And his dad, gosh, just I can't imagine saying that to my child, like whatever the burden is to say to them at 10 years of age that you can carry it. You, you're the only one that can carry your mom can't carry it. Nobody else can carry it up to you. You're the one who's got a carry at a 10. I can't imagine ever doing such a thing.

23:58Right. And that hit so hard because it was just why. And then you figure out we find out why because of his own, you know, internal struggles, but to put that on your child at that age. Right. That is just care. How do you, how does, how does the kid grow up to be functional? So the interesting things coming to mind is that how and John really do kind of like each other. I mean, we're getting more of a hologram here and I think how of the 2026, 2016 era that was post synestro. Right. And I think the synestro thing, if I'm reading the timeline right, the synestro encounter, I think is what really broke him and really jaded him.

25:08So the hologram is a bit more peppy, a little bit more chirpy, a little bit more positive is, is complimentary is apologetic. And yet, even that how and and John Jr. have their issues. And they both come from this childhood that has all of this really intense, not idealistic kind of stuff. John Jr. being pushed to be the green lantern. And how, you know, you know, dealing with a, you know, the generational trauma that's in his family and then losing his father at this age. And both of their baggage that they can't let go is what's actually clashing on screen. That's actually keeping them from like being each other's best friends and best allies and actually being, you know, mentor and mentee.

26:16That there's these broken kids, these, these basically two 10 year old boys who are broken. But who have who are in control of one of the most powerful forces in the, you know, in the known universe. And that if they could figure out how to, I'm not saying fix themselves, but if they could figure out how to like not have their baggage be what's out in front of them, you know, that's. And you know, maybe we're getting there a little bit right now because by the end of the scene, they actually do a rope a dope right to actually, you know, he's like, hey, our song is playing and then boop he blips out and. John's able to knock out Sinestro right like that's a perfect rope a dope thing right to actually work together as a team and it worked right right. So yeah. Yeah, the things that we, you know, the folks pass on to their kids.

27:17Just um. And we can't help it. Hardware. Yeah. I mean, we don't have to be shooting apples off our kids heads, but like at the same time, like, you know, we're the kids are there is no perfect, you know, parenting. There is no perfect thing for like we all have to learn to live within this world. And that means encountering the world. So I have to say that kid actor was great too. Like he really sold it. Oh, yeah, yeah, so that's seen. So all the scenes. That was really being a kid actor on a show like this can be really tough. So I think they really found the right kind of guy. Okay. I do love that we go from grave to grave. So we go down into the grave and then we come back up with how it's like really great. But I do it military nitpick corner here.

28:17It's not even like a very serious one. The jets that fly overhead, those are the correct jets. Those are F4 phantoms. So that's correct for the time periods, workhorse of flight. And they were flying a valid formation of the missing man formation. So one jet missing a lot of times they have like one jet peel off and fly off. That's what they mostly do. But the only little thing that they messed up was the the contrails or the smoke screens coming out of the. The F4 was a real dirty bird and put out a lot of black kind of oily smoke. And that was like white perfect lines for all the jets. So anyway, that was definitely some CGI action. So. But otherwise they did a good job. They did a good job. I was. I can't tell you about it. The don't think twice it's all right song. That's a cover by that's a Bob Dylan song from 1962. From the freewheeling Bob Dylan album.

29:19And it was also the B side of the single blown in the wind. And the cover is being sung by Melanie who I don't know I'm not familiar with as an artist. But that song's been covered by a lot of people like you go to the wiki page for. Don't think twice and there's just lists of like all these people who who've covered it. So the other thing that I had to pull up was I had to do a little bit of research on the bomb pop was a bomb pop. Well, one of your favorite popsicle. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Okay. I was never down with the bomb pop. They called them something else now. Okay. Yeah, because we don't want to be kids like eating bombs. Yeah, they call us up the notes now. What they still have them. So it was invented by James S. Merritt and DS Abernathy in Kansas City, Missouri in July of 1955. The tree marked it in 71 and patented it in 75.

30:19And it was the original flavors were cherry, lime and blue raspberry in the mimics the American flag. And I guess as of 2025, there's actually nine main bomb pop flavors as well as four extreme flavors. And the last Thursday of every June is National Bomb Pop Day. I had no idea. We'll knew that. Never heard of that. Wikipedia knew that. That's who knew that. So thank you, Wikipedia. But I had to laugh at the bomb pop. That was like perfect time. You know, again, they were just playing perfectly into the 1975 vibe and picture. All right. Anything else? Otherwise, we'll jump real quick to the grave side. Okay. Let's go to the grave. Back in 2026, John Jr. tries to explain the situation to the halogram who is a shoot here.

31:22I just got confused with my notes here. I had a little grammar. I was going to make a little grammar joke about who versus whom as opposed to what did John say in the thing? He said, Mogo and I or I and Mogo were said. He does like a school grammar tense thing. It was very funny. But then John tries to turn off the halogram when the conversation gets tense. A bunch of Easter eggs in here for comic readers. Who's the squirrel? He's a squirrel. But he's got an egg. What's his name though? I can't remember his name. He's a green letter squirrel. All right. You carry me. Yeah. Better than me. I'll play this audio clip real quick. I got the funeral go over. The funeral's great. We mean great. I mean, it was great just how sad it was. Everyone showed up. You know, the guardians of the lantern court gave you the full works.

32:25The sky was lit up. How the hero. The entire court. Everybody. I'm not sure. Of course he did. How about Mogo? You kidding me? Me and Mogo was still right here. Mogo and I. Mogo's a goddamn planet. Why are you lying to me? And what the fuck is going on? So good. So good. So good. So Marker. Marker. His name is Chip. Oh, Chip. All right. We don't need a marker for that. You just go just. We're going to leave that in. I'm not going to edit that. Chip. Yes. His name. The squirrel's name is Chip. Man. Chip. With a fan favorite. Oh, fan favorite. Uh, depends on the fan, I guess. Okay. He's not rocket. He's not rocket raccoon. He's not in that vein. So got it.

33:25Very funny though. It was just great to have. I don't know if he was in trying to hurt the halogram. Halograms feelings. Or he was just like, do I tell them nobody showed up? You know, you can see them making the calculus. That's a. Yeah. I don't know if he was in trying to hurt the halograms feelings. Or. And he was just like, do I tell them nobody showed up? Like, calculus, let's say. It was only three people that do I tell them that? And he's like, yeah, Moga, we were standing right here. Well, he's not thinking that. He's not thinking the halogram is all that. Uh, he's just trying to, he needs him to just work him just enough to get him to open the vault. Yeah. He thinks the halogram is just like a. Who knows like,

34:26you know, not as advanced as. Right. Halogram really is. So this is an imprint of Hal Jordan. His personality treats everything about that makes Hal Jordan Hal Jordan is. Halogram. You know what I mean? So you can't be as the halogram because you can't be as Hal Jordan. But I think when Hal chipped off his ring, remember an episode five when he, he sort of used his pocket knife and he chipped it and there was like a little green spark went flying. Yes. And he was up on the water tower and he's like sent, you know, activate sentry mode or whatever. Yes. Yes. I think that's another one of his bump hacks. That because the ways that the halogram is turning himself on or often being aware, being able to be aware of like, hey, you were talking to, you know, your brothers or what have you or is able to actually save his life on the,

35:26on the fear planet later on. I think that whole ability for the halogram to come in and out is like has to do with him sparking it. It's like a hack that he's figured out for his ring. Yeah. I know it's a hack. Yeah. That's literally that was a hack that he, but that kind of that makes sense. Like he is. Because remember, we he flicked it and there's a little green spark went shooting off, right? Yeah. So. All right. Next scene, John junior talks to his brothers to arrange reparations. And then shows the halogram the vault. The halogram is suspicious and demands to talk to the local authorities. On the drives the station, John junior is able to manifest the halogram. Well, not wearing the ring. So John, John's given in.

36:28Is back now, not reparations, you know, saying I'm changing the terminology here. No, sorry. I have what was about it. You know, that's not what the racist want you to use their their terms, you know, say we don't do that. No longer reparations. Black man. He hex that out. Black male. Yes, yes, yes. And again, we get some more of Aaron Pierre talking to his brothers. Some people have been having fun with his accent saying like any given time, he's West Coast, East Coast, he's South, East Coast, they're like, man is all over the place. But it was a crazy conversation to have. He's like, yo, you got to send me this, you know, 315 ASAP, you know, oh, cash. You know what I mean? So like you called it last last week, my boy, Junior got the dough. He does. I told you he got the dough. I told you.

37:28He's got the money. He's got the money. He's not struggling out here. You know, saying that architecture firm of his is doing quite well. So those panic rooms, yeah, he's taking and taking the money from the rich people who want those panic groups. So nice back and forth. I thought between the brothers. Yeah. Like, you know, what are you talking about right now, but you know what you mean? Like you're going to send it to me or not. I'll think about it. Click. Just like, man, you're going to be like, you know, you're going to be like, you know, you're going to be like, you know, you're going to be like, you know, you're going to be like, you know, you're going to be like, you know, it's, you know, you're going to be like, you're going to be fast. And that is ok. We are going to chance it to happen. A love. Michael. I come to Dune, but, uh, I think about it. Click. Just by, dude, you already done messed up the deal that we were supposed to work on, and now you're talking about, senator three fifteen, I got to think about it me. Yeah, that's uh, it's a crazy talk. He's back in rush. two words. I was permed of finger up. Yeah. And I love watching Kyle Chandler act in this.

38:36He gets to play this real jaded burnt out gruff howl and now he gets to play this sort of more fun chipper howl. It's like the same person, but at two different points in time, it's really, it's really good work. That's really good work to you know, you say chipper. I don't even think he's chipper. I just think he is he's not negative. Like the howl of twenty six and now, right? He's not beaten down. He's not beaten down. Jaded. The halogram is not beaten down, right? And it really able to see the landscape and not through the eyes of the person who had to put their mentor and jail had to you know, knows that the lanterns want to replace me. Right. That's not the halogram. The halogram is how being just howl, just being himself, you know what I mean without the baggage, without the the weight of the world on his shoulders and the way that it's on his shoulders, you

39:41know, what he first meets John Jr. So yeah, I just think he doesn't have the weight of the world on his shoulders. Like, you know, like the howl that we get to meet and the how that that's good point on sees in the in the diner in this time frame before he dies, you know, who did time in jail. So we have this these the comparisons to make. It's like the hal of before and the hal of now. And gosh, the hal of now has been through some shit. Yeah, the because you know, the imprint that he made of himself is not this is not this. So it's really sad. It's sad to be able to see how how was in comparison to how he is now before he died. Right. How are you doing that? Don't want. I'm still here. You're not wearing the

40:44ring. That's not possible. Yeah, well, I guess it has. The lanterns that can do that. Hell, I can't even do that. Bravo. Well, fucking done, trainee. That's amazing. You serious? You know, I'm serious. God damn incredible. What? It's kind of funny. It's how I'll never compliment it before. So it's just weird. It's fucking incredible. Right. That's the howl of back then who can actually recognize something cool and call it out and be fun with it and acknowledge it for what it is. Yeah, I really do think the the synestro thing and then knowing that the lanterns want to replace him in this like really gross kind of way. Yeah, that's going to make anybody really jaded and pissed off and salty. Yeah, suspicious. Yeah. And then we have, you know, knowing now what we know

41:51about how his father passed, you know, it's these these things that have built up in his life, you know, I'm saying the first person that he looked up to was his father and gave him gave him that that ring to unlock what he unlocked, right? So now who knows for how long he's been thinking about this? Do I have this inside of me? Yeah, right. He's getting to that age where it's going maybe start to affect him. Right. Right. They're trying to replace me. You know, it's just so much happening here. Do you think the guardians know the guardians wouldn't care about his family history? No, I don't think they don't care. I don't think they would care. Yeah. But when he compliments, you know, Jr. here is like, yeah, fucking, hey, look at how you doing this shit. You know, I don't think that's impressive. Yeah. And the first when we saw how when they first met and

42:54he just asked John, Jr. How you doing that? When John, you know, had the bird without the ring? Yeah, how'd you do that? Like, and you can see in his eyes in that moment while he's talking to him, like that's some incredible shit that you just did, but he didn't say it. Right. And then he makes a he makes a kind of demand out of it. It's like, okay, well, your assignment is to go get this my bag and don't let the bird dissolve, you know, in the intro. And he does it in a really jerky kind of way. Like, and like, oh, yeah, let's see if you can do that. Like something impossible. And that's the thing because he recognized the impossibility of what John Jr. was doing. Right. But he he just could not let him know that. Right. Right. Whereas the hologram is like, fuck, yo, this is yo, you do know what you're doing. You don't know me. Like, and John is really

43:58receptive. He's like, wow, absolutely. Like, that's cool. Absolutely. Because he wanted, he needs to hear that. He does and he's the head. Remember when he was, remember when he was watching TV when he was a little kid, you know, back to the very beginning. Yes. He really does idolize the Green Lantern. He always has. He's always felt the pull. And yeah, there's this whole tension about, did you ever really want it? Are we just being pushed by your parents? But I think there's something really in there. And so, yeah, he had, he does admire how in a lot of ways. And once he's approval, he wants that fatherly figure, that person to train him to take him to the next level. He's gotten here. He needs to get to the next level. And that's, and how Jordan has that experience and that wisdom to pass down. And I think how would like to pass that on? Right? Like as a, in a fatherly, just, you know, in a fatherly kind of way. Not not the how that we meet in the beginning. No, no, no, but the, but the hologram,

45:03the version of how back then. Yes, yes, yes. Yes. All right, let's move on to the next scene. The duo stops by the sheriff station, but everyone's at the hat ceremony. The hologram sees the Green Lantern beacon. And then on the ride over to the hat ceremony, John's able to forget how for the moment. And then Maggie gives John a little bit more time, but takes his watch. I got another. What's that? Maggie, Maggie got to go. You're on the clock. I was listening to, I was actually this in the Midnight Boys main podcast and they were looking up that watch and like, that's an expensive watch. Like that should be the debt paid right there in that watch. I mean, like what's a, what's a waitress in Nebraska doing with a high end watch like that? That's like a couple hundred thousand dollar watch. Like an crazy amount of money.

46:06So yeah. I got this other audio clip here. I want to play, which is pretty funny. A gym teacher with a gold. You got to be shitting me. Nope, and I don't really want to talk about it. I want to talk about it. Why would a gold two gym teacher get the ring over you? Dickie Shoritz Lincoln clean. Leaning check in out the scene. What are you doing? Gangsta boys, blickers, lia. Yeah, that's very clever training. Right around, talk your shitting. I'm your mind. Well, I tell you, you know, what? It's not going to go. That's some lines from Spadee Adi Doe Policius, which is an outcast song from the 1998 album a quake aqua mini aqua mini aqua aqua. Oh, oh, oh, oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. My brother, my brother, my brother, my brother, my brother, Klamonai. Aquaman, Aquaman. Now I can't even do that. I apologize. I apologize. Everybody do not

47:11at me. Do not eat nasty comments about I am sorry for that. That is an honest bad mistake. That's a song. You know, I don't know the song. I don't know this, you know, I never listened to outcast. No, it's a dope album. No albums. When a hologram is like, it's not going to work. And he phased out. That just tickled me. I laughed. I think you laughed at that in that moment. It's just like this back and forth that they have with each other. Yeah. It's just really, really well done, well acted. And you can feel, you know, a friendship, a budding friendship. Right. You know, like you can see it there. You can see it. They have something there that they can be a support to each other. And as grown men, you know, if you don't have it,

48:16it's hard to find it. Yeah. As adults. It is. I will say as an older man, it's like it's harder and harder to make new friends. I agree. New life. If you don't have it, it's hard to acquire it. And you can see hologram 20 years older than John Jr. Doesn't have many friends. How did you have my friends? So there was a possibility to have this connection with someone, but he's so weighted down by everything that he's gone through that connection could not form until he's died. Right. That's crazy. Now he's got to be friends with his ghost. That's fucking crazy. So my head Canon was that because John Jr. was kind of a nerd kid and they

49:22were forced, you know, doing all this training with him and all that kind of stuff. So that when it comes to black American culture, he's kind of stunted in a way. And so what he's singing the lyrics and they're off key and he's not very sounding very credible. To me, that all just goes into the personality of John as being this kid who was adjacent to that culture, but it wasn't his. He didn't. He wasn't able to internalize it as his brothers might have. And that could be the same for me. It was like, I hear an ACDC song or I'm trying to think of something else from that era. There are certain things. Well, I had classic rock and a new wave at the same time. So I could go flock of sequels or come on or whatever. And I'm just like, I feel it. I sing it. I can sing the lyrics. I'm in it because that was the culture that I was steeped in and we were all steeped in. But John was like a little bit set outside of that because of the structure of his family and

50:25the pressures of training. And so that he's a little bit nerdy when he knows the lyrics. He knows this song, but he sort of sings it in this like very awkward way in this very sort of it was hilarious. So to me, it works for his character. It tells me a little bit about him in a funny way. It's the same. It's the same thing that we get when they're in the car together, the family. And he's singing and he's rapping to his brothers, making fun of the way he reps. The way he sounds. It's the same thing. He has an algorithm that he has an algorithm. And then that they use this device as twice more in this episode. And then it becomes the decisive element for counteracting Sinestro in the moment. Really great way to build in a little bit of character moment, a little bit of backstory, a little bit of plot drama. And then boom, it turns out to be like

51:27a key element for the heroes to overcome a villain in a minor moment. Really great. Very smart. I want to ask you a quick question. How says or the halogram says something about Green Lanterns don't kill even man hunters, you know, understanding in front of the thing. The hit. They hit John Jr. Do Green Lanterns try not to kill? They try to be cops. Yeah, they're not. Yeah. Yeah. So, they don't kill. Right. So, you know, how was trying not to kill Zoe as well in that, right? And he was John who did trying to capture her. Yeah. Because he even says I'm going to I wanted to capture her to bring her back to Ola so the guardians could kiss my ass. Kiss my leg. Kiss my ring. So, his intent was to capture the man hunter. John is a soldier.

52:35His intent is to put down the threat. He was a sniper too, right? And so, yeah, like he killed people. That was his job. Yeah. And the soldier is not a cop and a cop is not a soldier. And this is something that he should have learned from interest. How? Yeah. Right. Which is why when the halogram says I don't kill Green Lanterns don't kill even man hunters. You see John's face in that moment. There's like a twitch in his face. It's like, yeah. Yeah. He doesn't even know that much. It's true. And not that how was he as teaching him that much either back then. So, they were. No, that's exactly it. How was in teaching them anything? And you've got to, if you're going to take a soldier and turn them into a cop, then you have to unlearn them a bunch of stuff. You have to work with that and redirects

53:39that training. And then I think when we think about how and John sitting in the diner and John's expecting an apology, how's like, man, I didn't kill nobody. Right. I didn't pull the trigger on nobody. Right. Right. But I took the fall. I went to jail for all this. Right. And I'm not saying, you know, I'm not, I'm not weighing out who's to blame for how much or whatever, but both of them were in that situation. And John did kill somebody. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. All right. Let's do this. Let's take another quick break. And then when we come back, we'll jump into the hat ceremony. And we're back. The hat ceremony Noah declines to make a selection. And Billy has, has words with

54:43John Jr. Who's vouched for by Sheriff Kerry. They agree to meet in the science lab down the hall. And John authorizes the bank withdrawal for 300,000. Kerry and the hologram meet and the hologram becomes convinced that Sheriff Kerry is actually his murderer. So the biggest, the biggest critique I'm hearing of this whole episode is everybody doggin that offensive line. Yeah. It's Nebraska. You know, they, they, they, that's not an offensive line. No, that's not a old line. That's like a middle school offensive line. Yeah. Basically, that's not a old line. So I don't know what's going on in this town currently. I know they, you know, there you go. There's, there's a, there's a lot of people who've left, right? They're just

55:44a lot of, so yes, I don't have, yeah, probably a lot of families left. A lot of people have left. Right. And they're just, you know, making do with what they got, you know, but I was pissed at Noah, was like so manipulative. You know, like everybody's there for you to pick your school. You know that everybody's there to pick your school. You know that you're not going to do it. And you're like, yeah, I know we are here for this, but I'm not going to do that right now. I need to come to the game and I'll do this at another time. Like to uplift the community. The community wanted to be uplifted by Noah and what school you're going to, not by beating your rival. So again, Noah is suspect as hell. I don't care what anybody says. That's really interesting. I hadn't thought about how manipulative it was. I was thinking more of the, well, that kind of sucks for everybody,

56:48but that that you're right, that it is intention, what he did is intentional. Yeah, he knows what he's doing. And he's doing it for, I just love the way the show is this, does these origami folds like this? Because like, however, this part of this storyline unfolds, it's going to be something that like, oh, I didn't think about how that was going to play out. Like, this is just really cool. Because it is. That's a real big, that's a big deal. It's a big deal for the town. Everybody's together. Everybody is clapping and then you step up there and it's like you're pulling on their emotions. You know what I mean? Like he knows what he's doing. It's foul. Boy, there's a spawn of manhunter, man. Let's put that. So people were trying to figure out the fourth hat. We have Michigan Woolver Reigns, which is not Michigan State. I have family who would like murder me if I got Michigan and Michigan

57:52state mixed together. The Navy Academy and the University of Nebraska, Lincoln, the Huskers. Nobody's, I'm not sure anybody's able to figure out that fourth hat, not that it matters, but it's like, you know, everybody's doing Reddit, playing Reddit, detective, and trying to figure things out. So do you have any theories, any musings on what the fourth hat was? Some people say FSU. I didn't even think about it actually. Okay, fair enough. I didn't, yeah, I didn't even really think about it. I was just like, because I was just stuck in the fact that he didn't choose. Right. You're like, he didn't choose any and the smattering of applause that he got when he's trying to fire them up to come to the game. Like, yeah, nobody was really clapping. And Billy was like looking around going, yeah, that's kind of cool, right? Yeah. This is embarrassing. Exactly. Like, come on, man. It's up at this kid. 33 old high school senior was going on. Interesting that how

58:56fought with his new, his whole team, but Noah brought his team up from the serum, you know, to be part of a ceremony with him. Just an interesting, I don't think that's a big intention. An intentional point that they were trying to make. Just just an interesting contrast. That how like got this big fight with his whole team. Any names, every single one of them, you know, and then here they name off his offensive line when they, when they call them up. Right. This is a fun little bookend thing. All right, let's talk about the conversation in the science room and disc votes. What did I say about him? You talked about John like a football team who's always giving you hope and then letting you down. He's the TV you yell at every Sunday, but you never miss again because, you know, big fan. We should go. Rings running out of charge. What's that? So did you so busy? Where did you get his rank? Oh, he dug me up.

59:57Yeah. I love how they take these soulful moments, these deep introspections, these like, yeah, he's like the team that you always hope for and are always disappointed by. Oh, where'd you get that? Oh, he dug my, he dug me up. That's great. He dug me up. He dug me up. I love that contrast of like being all serious and then just being completely tongue and cheek. But I just like how the hologram is, you know, probing carry. Yeah. You know, just probing carry. And I like how he didn't tell John that that's what his intent was going to be. Because all he's like, I want, I want to talk to the sheriff. I won't, I won't, I won't go anywhere if you don't let me talk to the sheriff. You know what I mean? And he never hinted that he wanted to find out what the sheriff might know.

1:00:57Right. But here in this moment, again, this is something for John Jr. to learn, how to approach things, you know. He's always, yeah, he's, the hologram is very clever. He's always testing. Very, very. Did you ever see that movie Miminto? Yeah, with Guy Pierce. Yeah. And he's got no memory. Two. Was it Guy Pierce, really? Yeah. I was. Yeah. It was Guy Pierce. Yeah. Joey Palantino is in it. Carrie and Moss. Yeah. Chris, early Christopher Nolan. So like the whole thing on that is the guy has no short-term memory, right? He can't, or he can't form long-term memories. Sorry. He can't form long-term memories. So he's writing on the notes. And it's like the hologram reminds me of that in some ways. I know I'm not, I'm not making an equation. I'm just saying it's like a triggering a memory. It's like, oh, he's got to do all these things to like figure out what he know,

1:02:01what's really going on here. And he's got to figure out all these little tricks to interrogate the world and find out the information that he doesn't have. Yeah, because John isn't telling, isn't being fourth, right? Right. So he's doing his own investigation. And he's like, okay, I can't count on this guy. So I have to do it on my own. And yeah, it's, he's really good at what he does, man. And then later we get the reveal that the, the how about reveal the conversation that the hologram thinks that Carrie, Sheriff Carrie is guilty for his experiencing guilt and was probably the one that killed him. Yeah. Yeah. And there's some great musings that are happening on the, the discord. Some of them are like, is Carrie a man hunter? Or is she just the mother of a man hunter hybrid?

1:03:02Like did her and Zoe spawn an offspring in, in Noah? Did how find out about that? Because how was there? Yeah, he was trying to do some reparations. That like he was trying to not reparations, but he was trying to like make amends it away. But he was also still investigating. A hundred percent he was still digging around it. Yeah, I agree. Because something was not right. I agree. Something in his gut was not right. And so did he find out that Noah, who is that, who was that on the discord was saying this too? I got to look again. Where are we here? I think he was, yeah, Elon and I had the same thing. And Chambarusky, Chambaruni as well was positing that, you know, the question of Sheriff Carrie and how, how, I think you've gotten a lot of people on your side of the musings here is to, that Sheriff Carrie is sus.

1:04:02Yeah, I told you. I mean, the first one, no trust the police. No, I think you'll trust no cops. When the, when the halagram says, oh, yeah, I think she, I think it was her. I was like, I was like, oh, damn. It's like, how's gut is never wrong, right? That's one of the things that they've established with it is like when he's got a hunch, he's more often. It's probably right. Right. Yeah. And so, Wei-Zhon has a hunch. Do not discount that hunch. They're not hunches. They're just musings of my mind. That's it. So back at the fortress of storage, they find a backpack, a portable hole in a bag, which I find is hilarious. And then they head to the old water tower. So it's not to be discovered. And then they step through the portal. Let's play this audio clip really quick to set this up.

1:05:06Breathing. Sorry, let me get to straight. You got a planet in a box, in a storage unit, in the middle of fucking Nebraska. I thought you only got one. You know what, let's go. Wait, wait, wait. We should move this first. That hot, but possibly evil shares could be back after a brunch. We don't want to play in shenanigans at point A. You got a fucked up brain. There's a bullet in it. Again, we go from this very serious and intense conversation to like this really great lighthearted. Yeah, I got a bullet in my brain. Of course, I'm like weird. And then everything in that backpack, connection questions. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Did, did how put that there for John? I don't know what the vault, the backpack, what do you mean? Yeah, did he pack those things for John? I thought about it that way, because I thought he might have had that for himself.

1:06:07But then if he did that, that means that he is somehow involved in. Okay, so this, to have this part of the conversation means that we have to have the part of the conversation about Sinestro. Sorry, I don't think Sinestro is on that planet by free will. Because he was trying to, he was like, somebody's here, I'm going to take them hostage and I'm going to get the F out of here. I don't want to be here. I am not here of my free will. So how did how know that Sinestro was there or set up that Sinestro was there, or was he involved in Sinestro's jailbreak? I have no clue what to think about this. I thought that it's like, okay, well, if I have to go to that planet, then I know certain things. I'm going to get hungry, so I need to snack. I need a poncho because the poison is still around. And you don't just need a gun because, you know, like dealing with a dangerous situation here.

1:07:11Okay. So whether it was for how, for his own use or for John's use, that's a good question. I hadn't thought about that. Do you have any music? I'm not. I don't. That was a genuine question. That was a real question. Okay. That was not amusing on my part. That was a real question. Like did how intentionally, you know, pack that, knowing or hoping to have John show up? So that also brings up that question also makes me think about what was how saying to Bernadette and was how manipulating Bernadette and their quote unquote friendship? Because how new he was close to solving the situation, the crime, whatever I'd solving the crime, the, you know, like figuring out the mystery.

1:08:12But maybe he thought that he could do it alone. He needed John there. And so he said something to Bernadette knowing that that would get to John and then that would trigger John to come and see him. Like he had to manipulate that situation because John's, he just could call up John and says, Hey, meet me in Rushville. I want to apologize. You know, I got something for you. Right. He had to manipulate that situation. So did he leave that? That's interesting because that's a whole lot of chain of events. He's got to be able to get the ring. He's got to get the helmet ring to activate. That's so much. So many things, so many things were happening. But I was just, you know, because maybe he didn't envision himself dying. I don't think he did envision himself dying. I think when he was, I think when he was in the, I still think the Wush, I still think that here, let me, let me play some Wush sounds for y'all. Nobody reacted to my Rush. Absolutely. Fuck right.

1:09:12Vom Pomp. Like that was a, that's a real sound that they had in there. Right. So is Guy involved? Is the, is Leana involved the Guardian? Like man, I, they got to do this in one. I don't know how they're going to. One episode, bro. Dude, one dude. By the way, I love the shot composition when they're in the locker again. And the way that they shoot over the vault. It's dark. Yeah. Yeah, it's like dark in there. And so it's a very, it's a, it's kind of a horror shot composition. Something you'd see in a horror film. But it's also a great visual marker that lets us know that the, the episode is about to become something else. Like this is the articulate, this is when the episode articulates into a different thing. And we go from Midwest murder mystery solving thing to this intergalactic

1:10:14sort of horror or brain thing. So have you heard of an Einstein Rosenbridge? Yes, yes. I've heard about it. It's basically, I don't know. I've heard it from how though. No. It's basically how they teach me Jackson. Motherfucker. See what I say. He's getting hot under the collar a few times this episode too. He was like, I love, I love, Julia just cursing. So it's a wormhole. That's what we would call a wormhole in sort of popular culture. And it's a mathematical on paper. It mathematically describes a tunnel-like connection between two regions of space time. And it comes from a 1935 paper that Albert Einstein and Nathan Rosen wrote. And they were trying to describe some particles relative to general relativity. And when they rework the math of the black hole, they found that it could be read as

1:11:20two identical sheets of space time joined by a narrow throat. And the narrow throat was this bridge. And then I'm just regurgitating Wikipedia here, y'all. The wormhole term was coined later by physicist John Wheeler in 1957. And so the bridge is a real mathematical feature. But apparently it's impossible to reverse it. It's impassable. And you would need some other physics. You would need some other particles to basically keep the tunnel open. Like the tunnel isn't stable enough and it collapses too quickly or something for you to actually go through it. So anyway, it's a thing and we use it a lot in Stargate and StarTrack and all kinds of other stuff. DC's boom tubes? Is that something that? Yes, boom tubes. Seeing that reference here.

1:12:21Okay, new guides. That's in a comic, sir. Dark side, yes. Okay. Comics. And also they showed them in Snyder's DCU. So yeah. Got it. So yeah, so wormholes have made their way from a 1935 paper describing a mathematical feature to a pretty well used sci-fi trope tool. You know, it's ways to actually get around the cosmos in ways that are otherwise impossible. All right. The water tower. At the old water tower, they use it as a safe place to set up the wormhole so that they can step through to what we learn later as Antan's dead planet. John Jude and your reminds us that he was given the memories of Antan's people and he's able to tell us the fate of those folks.

1:13:26Real quick as just another shot thing because I was talking about the shot in the in the storage in the fortress of storage. As they're driving to the water tower, there's the truck is driving in the road and we have this tracking shot with a drone that sort of following the truck. And rather than like sweeping in and zooming in, they do this really cool thing where the drone fades back and zooms out. And it's just really it opens up the landscape for us and it opens up the sense of space. And it's just a cool shot the way that the truck and the drone are sort of in motion relative to each other. But then when I was thinking about oh, like because now we're about to go to Antan's planet and it's this big open space. So they're giving us visual, they're preparing us the visual landscape of the Presca to the visual landscape of Antan's planet. And they're showing us a planet that's alive that's got crops on it that's got farms on it and

1:14:29people are working the land and working the soil when we go to Antan's planet. And it's dead and it's lifeless. And so it's setting up a really nice contrast. Nice. Yeah. Let me ask you a question. Is using acts twice in an episode? Good to it is. Ask me if I'm afraid. Why? I said, ask me if I'm afraid. You afraid? Fuck. It's like Aaron Pierce finding is an Americanness and so he's just leaning in whenever he can use you know a black American slang speech pattern and he's like kind of throwing it in now left and right. That is this. I mean, I have a lot of poetic about the actors. So I'm not going to keep going with it.

1:15:30But you know, it's I don't I think it was Ron. I think it was, um, Dungeons and Duras, the acts who did it better, Idris Elba, or um, like the MTA. And I was just like, okay, Stringabell takes the cake all the time. You know what I said? Stringabell. It's always going to be Stringabell. Always going to be Stringabell. You know, I mean, so, gif, but what it's worth having, you know, British actors who are playing African American, Black American roles, um, I think Idris Elba's Stringabell takes the cake out of everyone. So yes, that's in the side. I'm sorry, I had to put that out there. The day very decide and it goes it's because there's there are so many Australian and English television and film actors who are,

1:16:31you know, what I don't know what, what casting directors are falling for for these, for our commonwealth brothers and sisters, but it is a phenomenon in many areas of film and television. So it's pretty funny. And I would have, prior to this, I didn't, I had no idea that Aaron Pierre was, not an American, not based on his accent early on, but like in the first couple of years. So that was like, oh, right. So, and John, John Bagoya shot out to him because then they, they cloned Tyrone. He, his accent was passable as well. So, right, right. I'll just put that out there. I forgot about him too. Yeah, he's definitely, you haven't seen much of him recently. No, we haven't. Yeah. Yeah. Just like he had gotten, I think there was some movie. Yeah, I really enjoyed. And there was another little act, I think it was a television show or the series. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that was pretty good too. Yeah.

1:17:31So, well, hopefully, let's get back to that. What's that? Let's get back to the lectures in the city and the sky. Okay, all right. There's desert that they're walking on, the bones of the skeletons of the people who you know, fell to their depths because of the guys that Zoe unleashed on this planet, diabolical shit. Because the way that it's explained that they killed each other, diabolical shit. Like, this is, this is, you know, we, we're asking about the man hunters. What did they do? It's there you go. They, an entire planet was just human civilization, completely. Magnus to the point of madness where people were, you know, killing each other and killing

1:18:33themselves and jumping, you know, falling down from the city and the sky to their depths at the behest of the man hunter. I mean, yeah, if I was the answer, I would wear some vengeance too. And they did it. Was it rockets and guns and evading armies and giant spaceships, you know, sending giant death rays? It was something very insidious that prayed on their own instincts and own reactions to things, this gas that, you know, that caused them to take themselves out. Right. And they didn't have a death star. They let themselves do it to themselves. Right. Right. Right. Which is way worse. Right. It's as way worse. Right. I'd rather be blown up in an instant than to like have a whole civilization go mad and

1:19:33descend upon itself and tear itself apart. Right. But I'm dying to go. Good old Zoe. Yeah. That's what she, that's what she enjoyed. Right. And then then I'm like, oh, you know, John and her and her love and they have these feelings for each other and all this stuff. And it's like, no, that's what the man hunter does is they're praying on our, on Zoe prayed on my emotions. I thought she was cool, you know, hang out with her and like live in her town. Cool. You know, like no problem. Right. That's what the hologram tells John too, right? Mm-hmm. That's how they get you to get, they get into your head. Yeah. You're not the only one who felt a rush real girl, you know? That's right. That manipulate you and they pray on your emotions. Okay. And that's exactly what happened to John. So one thing I wanted to call out to you on the, the color grading of the planet,

1:20:36it's yellow. Oh, when they're out there in that desert area, it's yellow. What is the color yellow represent in the lantern mythos? Fear. Let's say it. Yep. Yep. So, and this is this, this gas, the right that made people afraid and then here's this death. Here's this like everything is up. But what's interesting is when they cross the river or the lake or whatever this thing is, when they get into this old industrial thing, which we're going to talk about in a second, the color grading, the overall, the overriding color grading for the scenes is more shifted into a green gas spectrum. Yeah. And there's even this little green, sort of exhaust gas from whatever sort of blow off is happening in this old factory thing. So let's talk about the canoe trip. But then I wanted to talk about that, that green color light as well, real quick.

1:21:36JJ and the halogram take a little canoe trip and JJ is affected by the ridseled jewel gas and the atmosphere. He sees visions of his past, his father himself. And then he ends up in the water and then is rescued by Hal. I guess, I was trying to figure out what was happening now that I think about it. I guess it was the halogram that knocked him into the water when he was trying to knock the gun away from his head. Okay, that makes sense now. Yes, he said, exactly what he said, you about to shoot yourself. Because he tried to knock the gun out, but then he knocked him into the water at the same time. Yeah. Right. Okay, because when he's, when you're watching that scene, he just suddenly is in the water. And I'm like, I watched that scene a couple of times. I couldn't figure out what actually caused him to go into the into the water. Now that makes sense. Now it's clear. So How does apologize?

1:22:36John actually gets an apology from Hal. I mean, this whole scene was was incredible. From the apples showing up on the water, him seeing his father first and himself, yelling at himself. And again, these are two men who haven't dealt with their past. They can't let go of shit. Great. John has a point. He's moved on in a way, but he has not let go of the trauma. He's still holding on to it. He still hasn't dealt with it. He's calling his mother Bernadette. You know, and when he's under the influence of the guys, his true emotions is the things that he's repressing come to the forefront. And he's still trying to deal with what he went through growing up.

1:23:41Still trying to deal with pointing at gun at his mother and father's head or having done point at gun at him. Right. You know, it's all so, so, so very sad to watch it as it plays out. But then who yet, you know, halogram is just his own grief as well. You know, it's just, again, like I said earlier, it's like two people who are lacking connection. And can be connected. But we're unable to because they were still dealing with their shit and letting that shit affect them. Right. And it's heartbreaking to watch. We talked a lot about in previous episodes too of watching John's,

1:24:42watching for when John's rage is getting closer to the surface of his cruel demeanor. And in this scene, we see that rage boil over. And we see the, the child raging as well. Right. And the fear and the anger that that child has, like, this is a real test of fear, right? This is a real test of character. This is like a whole river sticks, you know, death thing. Like this is a hero reborn kind of moment thing, you know. And that's the thing that's holding John back. He's not at peace with himself. Right. And then to know that how, you know, his father, you know, and grandfather took their own lives. Yeah. And what that must have done to, to how Jordan, you know, being told by, by your dad, like,

1:25:52I'm going to, you basically, I'm going to do this thing. And the only person that's going to know that I did this thing is you. Right. Right. Like, how do you care about the fact you're going to actually learn about the truth of it after the fact, after I've gone, you have to carry that. And he says, can't even tell his mother because as far as I said, his mother can't handle it. Yeah. Yeah. Well, what does that do to fearless John? Right. Not fearless John. Excuse me. Fearless how? Living his life on the edge, you know, when we talked about the, in the, about when the ring came to John's senior and his fear. Right. And then when he came to how Jordan, how Jordan was like, yeah, fuck yeah, let's do this.

1:26:53You know what I'm saying? Let's go. No fear. He doesn't, he doesn't care. Lives or dies. You know, he doesn't care. He goes to the ranch and they're telling him, yo, don't take another step or you will get shot. Right. Doesn't care. Takes three steps and then gets shot. You know, so all of these things that we see from how I think stem from obviously what he had to, to deal with, what he had to hold in just like John, Jr. is holding shit in. Right. Right. And do you have to be hold this? I mean, sorry, go ahead. No, I'm just saying, John, Jr. grew up holding having to hold shit in. And so to be a grand lantern, green lantern.

1:27:58And to be fearless, at least in a human context because aliens are aliens, you plan it, a squirrel, whatever, right? That's there's different things going on. But to be a human green lantern, does that mean that you have to be, what does that say? Are you a whole person or are you a broken person? And how do you, how does that, how do you hold that much power? Right. Right. And how do you be fearless? Can you be whole and well adjusted and, you know, I think that's an interesting tension, an interesting dilemma that's not, I'm not asking that question to, or pointing that out as a solve. But as the human condition is paradoxical in a lot of ways, right? There's a lot of what we experience, which is just, okay, both things are true in this moment. And they're both seemingly opposite of each other.

1:29:00So to be the savior for sector, what's our sector, 281, 4, or whatever, yeah. You have to be this broken individual because the shit that you got to go do out in the galaxy is like, it would break you if you were otherwise. Like, maybe you have to be broken to be able to do the job. I don't know. Yeah. You know, I was thinking about Lovecraft country as well, right? And a lot of that show, a lot of what was, they were trying to do with that show was to talk about generational trauma. Yes. And how, you know, how we, as individuals and as cultures pass on our trauma and how, how trauma moves through us at individual and sociological levels. And so I think the show is pointing to some of that as well, right?

1:30:00And so we're on an individual level. This trauma that's being, you know, this stuff that's being passed down. Right. You know, our, it was John's grandfather and father where they, were they treatable? Could they have gotten support services? Could they have, you know, medication? You know, like, could they have lived without the burden of this, whatever generational thing that's being passed from father to son? Yeah. And then, you know, assuming that how is really dead dead, then in some ways he's, he spared himself from the fear of becoming his dad or his grandfather. Right. But we all know how it's not dead. I don't know. I think it, I don't know how I would feel if how is not dead. Like dead, 2026, how dead dead. Right.

1:31:01I'm happy with the hologram. I'm down. Okay. That's a fair, fair. Because then it's a, then what does it mean, you know, if he's not dead? Anyway, let's close it up. John and the hologram reach the island and enter into some kind of old industrial space. Sinestro takes the hologram hostage and John knocks him out. The episode closes with a flashback to how running across the airfield to retrieve his baseball with Queen playing father to son, uh, playing us out over the credits. Oh, and you know what? I did get time to do any digging around on the father and son song, but that's Queen. It's Freddie Mercury. And that was the song that was, we heard a bit of it when they were having their bomb pop. That's the, at the beginning. So they tease it. It's a really interesting book ending. They tease this whole episode out from the beginning and the back.

1:32:02So when he runs across the field to pick up the ball, which just says so much, right? There's so many layers to that. So much. So much. It's just a really beautiful scene and it's a really great song. For the feedback episode, I'll read a little bit more about the father to son. Or if somebody wants to write in and give us some notes on that song, that would be awesome as well. Save me a little time. So we talked about the color grading is green inside of this building. Yeah. Yeah. So we know from comics, from Conor's comics corner and from you as well that they have not introduced it in the, did they introduce it? They didn't introduce it at all. No, that's not been introduced in the show. That a ring can recharge from any green light. Right. They haven't said that yet. So is there a green light source in this place that's going to be able to recharge the ring? That's what it looks like to me. No. Okay. Like I'm just, I'm not crazy by thinking that.

1:33:04No, no, no, no. Okay. Because I definitely sort of light as they were walking across the desert. Yeah. And it was green, not yellow. It's like it's green. It's not yellow. Yeah. It's not yellow. And to get even a little bit more comic book nerdy and I don't know this. I only know from what you got what you and Conor and other people have run into it. Is this quard? Is this this anti-matter planet where you place where they were the weapons people and where the green no, because the yellow ring was forged? They're not extinct. That civilization didn't die in the comics. Right. In the comics. Okay. Okay. So could it be quard in this universe maybe? Okay. But as far as we know, we don't know because that's how I never said what he was from. No, they didn't. They were named the planet. And they could be laying out some Easter eggs when they, when they do tell us what's going on.

1:34:07Yes. So, yes, we'll see. And they could be doing a big, you know, like a misdirect got you thinking yellow, the school plan is yellow. Is it where we get the the beginnings of the yellow lanterns? Right. Which could open up. So it's Lindelof, right? So there's mystery. By right in pretty soon. I'm expecting a polar bear to walk out the corner, you know, the quarter of the frame at any moment. So do you do you think that that Sanestro knew who was there when he jumped them? No, I didn't get the impression that he knew we was John. Right. Because he said, oh, you must be John Stewart after he knocked him out. Yeah. So yeah, that goes into my theory that he's whoever sprung him stuck him here and he doesn't

1:35:11want to be here. This is not we nestro's desires. Choice. Yeah, it doesn't it doesn't look like he wants to be there. So who the hell you say you must be John. Right. What does he say that? He puts it together. Like who else is going to be? How is dead. So, um, this is happening in real time. Musings. How would he know that house dead? Yeah, he wouldn't. So why would he expect John? I don't think he was expecting John. I think he was like, I think soon, right. Sanestro smart enough. He's like putting two and two together. So musings, like what's guy gardeners level of involvement here? Oh, that's a good question.

1:36:13Guy gardener could have deposited Sanestro here. But why would guy spring him from jail to put him here? Did he and manhal have something going on because they did meet, right? I don't know. Maybe that's a abstraction, but like I'm just trying to think. No, I'm like, this is something. Are they going to introduce a whole new set of players in the last episode that like we have no connection to or connection to the two people that we've we haven't seen the parents that much. We don't know what's going on with Bernadette. I think the father is so a little bit out of the question. But is Leona Bernadette and Guy gardener are and Carrie, right? They're all suspect. So who could actually break Sanestro out and deposit him on this planet?

1:37:13How? But how didn't have a ring? His ring was decommissioned and back on Oa and he was like Moan lawns in in Rushville after he got out of prison. We don't know how long Sanestos Ben been broken out. No. It felt more recent news. You think recent? Okay. Yeah. So, okay musings, plenty of things to use upon. Anything else you want to mention about this episode or this last scene? Not just um, Cam, man, this entire sojourn to this planet, I thought was really well done. This scene you called it out with John and the hologram are working together as a team. You know, in that moment,

1:38:14where he phases out so, you know, Sanestro could get punched in the face. And it's a really good, it's a really good, you know, indication of what could have been. Right. Yeah. So it just shows us what they could have been. And perhaps what they can still be. Yeah. And I would, that's where it goes back to my, um, I don't want to say bitterness, but like slight level of disappointment in the studio. If they would just say, okay, season two is greenlit. You can cancel it later. That's fine. But just tell us now before it's over. And give us something to look forward to. Right. That John and Kyle, like John, you know, years later,

1:39:17John's Green Lantern, whatever. And he sparks up the hologram because he needs him to help him solve some history, something like that. Boom, a season two, right? Like it would be fun to have, it's fun to have these two guys on screen together. Right. They work. All right. Well, let's, uh, should we wrap it up? Yeah. Yeah. This was, um, I can't believe there's one episode left. This is our shortest episode covering this, uh, this season so far on this recording. There's one episode left. All right. I, yeah. Gosh, what am I going to do? Yeah. Well, what do you have vision quest coming up after this? Vision quest and play face. Man, this, this, this has been really, these for these seven episodes have been really great. Yeah. And pretty special.

1:40:19Oh, you know, something else too. I wanted to add just real quick at the end. And, and just to really encourage everybody, go listen to that conversation, uh, with the writers on the, on the midnight boys. Something that they talk about on that episode and something that we've talked about in our podcast and, and the way that, um, a lot of the community, the law house community has been relating to the show. Is this sort of fearless space of being able to talk about, to tell stories that center a black man or to deal with, you know, black culture and race and race in America and how we navigate it. And there's so much of our national cultural conversations where we're avoiding and we're twisting ourselves into weird shapes to like say something or not say something or can I say something or some people just, yeah, they're saying that thing. And that's like really ugly or terrible. Whatever. There's just a lot of static and a lot of energy around just even being able to talk to.

1:41:22And what's so refreshing about the show and what was really refreshing about that conversation on that interview was just that they were just, they were having fun, they were, they were chill, they were talking about their lived realities, they were talking about centering a story that is taking a black man and, and they're taking their personal experiences as writers and a black into the black family into this like man. And it was like, there's nothing weird or hyperbolic about it or contorted about it. It's just a natural story. It makes sense. The characters are, are lived in their speaking in ways that we can relate to and identify with. And as just a, this whole show has just been a refreshing look at how we can center other people's stories without it being a whole thing. But we can celebrate and investigate and to, to talk with and to live with these other characters

1:42:24that can look like all kinds of different people look like. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, I mean, you know, we've had this conversation before you and I, you know, I grew up not having seeing my face on screen, right? Not having my family dynamic be seen on screen in these fantastic stories. I still found those stories to be fantastic. I still found my way to those stories that centered whiteies, right? Right. The protagonists were always white. The families were always white. And I sat in the chair, sat in the movie theater, sat on the sofa, and I watched those stories because I enjoyed them. Right. I got to, and the good stories were good stories. My story is so, exactly. So when people say this is not for me, it's, you know, borderline, ass and eye.

1:43:30That's the nicest way I'm going to say it because just because you don't see a white person on the screen doesn't mean the story's not for you. This is not, you know, a black story. This is just a story and it's told well. But you as a white person can still find yourself in these stories that are told, even if the characters don't look like you because for the majority of black people, brown people, we've always had to do that. So it's a good story. Just enjoy it. And we had two good stories. We had, what was our first one with the, yeah, yeah, one, one, demand, thank you. I keep liking the name. We had one, demand and this in the same calendar year. Terrible portrayal of Haitian families.

1:44:31But great portrayal of LA actor culture. Yeah. Cool. Yeah. So everybody, yeah, thanks for hanging with us and we've got, oh, so next week, I have to travel out to the West Coast unexpectedly on kind of a long, good, simple basis. So recording is going to be a little bit weird because I'm not going to, I'm not going to, I'm going to be flying back, I think on Tuesday and I'm going to get home to Vermont until Wednesday. So I'm not sure when, like, when and where I'm going to be able to get the episode review done and then we'll find time for scheduling for recording. So everybody just be prepared next week is going to get pushed up, pushed around a little bit. So, but we will get an episode out and then a week later, we will get an episode you, Alicia and I will be doing a season wrap up. Season recap. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And that's where, and basically we need your feedback for that episode, for that recap,

1:45:31so that we can, you know, talk about because we want to get your conversation into the conversation. And what the way we like to do that is to use the listener feedback as the structure, as the content for it. And then at some point we'll pop over to Dungeon the Doorags and hang out with those guys. Sounds good. Sounds good. Cool. All right, well, let's give a quick shout out to our community volunteers, Nancy, our hand to the pod. Peter OH, the captain of the poll here, sub zero keeper of the show tracker, Lorbury and Brian, 863 and moderator, discord moderators Brian, 863 and Aaron K, discord server boosters, Aaron K, tiller the thriller, do 71, Athena Agilele, Astu, NCM, Ghost of Prinician, radioactive Richard, and Adrienne and to our lore master subscribers, Somarshan, Michael, G, Michelle, ESC, Peter OH, Nancy M, do 71, Brian, 863,

1:46:33Frederick, H, Sarah, L, K, C, Andra, B, Kualgu, Nathan, T, sub zero, Aaron, K, Dally, V, Mother, ship, 61, NARS, Kathy W. Lestoux, Jeffrey B. Eliseu, Ben, B, Scott, F, Steven, N, Julia, F, Koli, S, Hill, Mariel, Oroki Zim, Jessica, Redzippy, the TCS, LNR, Miz-10it, AC Wilson, Eli W, Cassie K, Chamberuni, thanks for your comments today, Chamberuni in the discord. I saw you popping up there. Ketilla, Josh Lu, paint in PDX, Cory G, Quinch, G-N-E-L, Slavinator, Cassandra C, and Forever Last, but never least, Audrey On, and special thanks to our green lantern core liaison officer Connor M, thanks Connor for all that you've been adding to the coverage of our show. And Jean, we will catch up with you in a couple of nights and we'll dig into some more of our

1:47:37listener feedback and our musings. Yeah, sounds good. Thank you for listening to The Lore Hounds. Please send any questions or feedback to LoreHounds at the lorehounds.com or dcu at the lorehounds.com and check out our supercast and patreon feeds for ad free access and bonus episodes. Look for all those links including links to all the other podcasts on our network and the link tree and the show notes. Any opinion stated or ours personally, and do not reflect the opinion of or belong to any employers or other entities. Your sausage McBuffin with egg didn't change. Your receipt did. The sausage McBuffin with egg extra value meal includes a hash brown and a small coffee for just five dollars only at McDonald's for limited time. Bryson with the Swiss Humay Berry.