Live App Teardowns: App Growth Optimization

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1:07now goes to remarketing. Yes, remarketing, not acquisition, but re-engagement. The playbook has completely flipped. Apps flyer just released their state of e-commerce app marketing report for 2026 and it's full of data like this. Platform trends, conversion benchmarks, fraud signals, market by market breakdowns. If you're planning your Q4 budgets, this is required it's free. Grab it at the link in the description. What is up, AppNation? It is your boy Steve P. Young, founder of AppMasters.com. And today we're going to look at your apps, give you all the latest and greatest when it comes to monetization, when it comes to onboarding, and obviously when it comes to distribution. So if you got any questions, it's just going to be me and you put them in the comments below

2:13without further ado. Let's get started. Oh, I'm loving this new music. Good job, H. All right, what's up, Kev? Always good to see you, my friend, week in and week out. Thank you so much for being here and being one of the first comments. What happened to me? What happened? I don't know what happened. Oh, well, I thought this would be better, but my video going the way. So let's figure that out. We got the musical mandala. Okay, all right. And I love what you commented. Effent app masters. Yeah. What's the question mark for, man? Come on. Question. What's up, Hakeem? We got PJ. We got A E T. I forgot who that person is. I think this is Patrick as well. And then Luis. Let me see if I remember. All right, guys,

3:14we've got, so if you got any questions for me, leave a comment below. This is really cater to helping you. We have a long wait for these apps. So if you want your app featured in the future livestream, just go to appmasters.com slash audit at masters.com slash audit. We'll take a look at your app. But you know what? Since it was one, we're think H and I were thinking about the topics and said, let's just do, just kind of clear this, all the the apps that we have in our portfolio. So I'm going to start off with, oh, the guy did give me, Paul did give me his promo code. So I'll try to download your app, Paul. Oh, okay. Paul, there you go. There I see you, Paul. All right, I'm going to start with the Android app from pre-tom. He wants ASO improvements. So I'm going to share my screen real quick. We've got pre-tom's app right here. It is a block app blocker app. And we're porn. So interesting enough, I'm going to search. So he wants ASO help. I'm going to kind

4:17of put in the keyword here just to kind of see where he ranks. Oh, okay. Perfect. I love it. Now, here's what I would talk about pre-tom. Looks like you're already number two in the US, where that particular term, which is awesome. From an ASO standpoint, he's doing all the best practices where he on Google Play, usually leading with the keyword that you're targeting works best. And so he's doing that. The other thing I would do is think about custom store listings because they do work. And what you can do pre-tom is like, look at the ASO. It seems like you know a little bit about ASO already because you're ranking so well for this particular term. But think about other terms that you can be ranking for. So for this, hey, looks like I reviewed your app already. Ready to do. For this, you might want to think through what other social media blocker is a keyword that I know that has volume. So you can create a custom store listing because the mechanism is probably the same, whether you're blocking social media, what a adult websites,

5:19whatever you're trying to block. It's all the same. So think about other keywords that you could be targeting and trying to leverage that for a bit more downloads. And then we'll get into the app itself even though you did not ask for it. But I already left your review. So, okay, just saying, I don't know if I'm going to do another one. All right, let me pull up this. Okay, shared it. All right, let me get into the app itself, H. There's the button, H, that's the button. I did it. Okay, let's get into the app itself. Blocker plus. I like it. I like any type of apps. It could be like app blocker plus or blocker app plus. Welcome to blocker plus. I think the UI UX could be changed a little bit, but it is Android. And so I'm going to give you a break. No offense, any

6:21Android gets started should have a space. These are little things. What I've also noticed in the onboarding is, and I've got a video that I'm going to record later today, H, that we'll talk about this Apple bit. But love the little animations. If you guys remember past podcast episodes with Timo from with Clem, she talked about how subtle, subtle animations actually do improve retention rate and makes the app feel more professional, more, just like, yeah, like a great app, right? So I'm going to hit this. Let's experience this. Myself, what's your age? Thank you for not saying just saying 35 and up. Hey, 35 and up, we don't care. That's good. All right, what's your majority of the problem? Effective, do I guess I'll leave both. What strategies have you tried? It is just okay. I don't want to. Never. You find it difficult to stop watching when you

7:25started. Not at all. Oh, never for that. Have you feel the need to watch one? Have you ever come back? Okay, let's see. Am I? Okay, often none of my kids watch this. All right, let's get into this. Calculate your result. Get to me to the paywall. Okay. I'm 68% addicted. Okay, it's funny. Cool. I like this. Right now. All right, I already gave you a rating bug. Give you another one. All right, this three string problem. I don't know. It went pretty quickly. I don't feel like I hit continue, but maybe I did. All right, we offer three days free. Cool. One day reminder. Awesome. I'm not allowed for now. I like this. I like this paywall. What I would also

8:27test with this paywall is look, try a hard paywall. I know it does. It might not work well with Android, but what I would also do is what we found is play around with the pricing. Maybe 29.99 would convert better than 25.99. We've actually seen rounded pricing work better, a bit better than non-rounded pricing like this. So try that. I'm actually even seeing like just $30 versus the sole 29.99 thing pop up in a few apps. I love these ratings. So we have a case study where we A, B tested ratings versus or actually sorry, where we A, B tested testimonials versus rating like the sheer number of rating average rating. We actually saw that one testimonial from and one of our apps we do do this. We asked if you're male and female. So I did tell you I'm a male and have on our paywall, we only have one. We don't have this scrolling one. We have a male. So if you have a if you put female, you're going to see a female. If you have a male, you see a male. And then I do like this paywall, but this is this is good, but those are some of the suggestions.

9:32I have I'm going to hit X on this. Okay, discount offer, get premium. I'm going to say no. Let's set up the blocker permissions and so forth. Yeah, I think you can expand on this app. I honestly think that you should figure out like, hey, are you here to block adult websites? Are you here to block social media? What else are you here to block? Because I think the next step, not yeah. I think the next step to monetization is tailoring your onboarding to the person that is downloading and telling you a little bit about themselves. And so I'm recording a video a little bit later for our academy where I don't want to give away the app because they told me privately what how they've been doing it. And so I'm going to share it just for the academy that like, hey anecdotally, I've heard that this works really well for them, but they kind of tailor the pricing and the paywall to what you kind of said during your onboarding. And the clearest example I can say right now that

10:32it should be obvious to everybody is, canba. So if you do personal or professional or even any of the AI tools, they'll ask you personal professional and you'll see different prices based off what you say in that personal or professional realm. Oh, okay, man, no questions. All right, how came good to see you? Joseph, good to see you, bro. As well, I can see your app is doing really well. Joseph, so congrats, bro. All right, let me get into some more stuff. Each no questions, huh? I'm not gonna have to talk the whole time, dude. Nobody wants that. Nobody wants that. Okay, Paul, I feel like we've talked before because your app looks pretty in, like I've seen this app before. All right, let me get into my knowledge. Please review my knowledge. I didn't just not tell you there's like a six month weight, bro. Like it does take a bit. So I will just send it. Maybe we'll do another live like this if this does well in terms of numbers. All right, we got Jonathan's app that's called glisten. If I think of

11:33it right here, it says unlock your active listening. All right, train your brain with the real world scenarios, improve your thinking speed where it counts, control accents, speed and distractions. Don't know what this is about. So maybe think through that a little bit, your positioning, active listening. I feel like I'm a good active listener already because of the podcast. So I'm trying to really figure out where your niche is right now. Jonathan, but that's just sort of my feedback. Unlock your brain, mine's potential. So is it like brain training? What is it that you're trying to go after? And I see the keywords and this feels, let's just brain training, but that is a tough keyword, bro. Brain training. Like yeah, you got impulse, you got elevate, you got all these apps. So if you're trying to compete with these guys, you know, this is what I talked about in the tentacle strategy, like is there a keyword under impulse that they can't rank for, that you can,

12:39and whether if it's active listening, along as active listening has pretty decent volume, we will, you know, then I would target that and maybe you should have active listening in your title because glisten is so short that you can probably fit that in just fine. So yeah, Joseph says with things to your private audit, get the people audit, thanks Joseph. Yeah, Joseph's doing really well. Man, Joseph, you're ranking number one for a lot of good keywords, bro. So congrats. But thank you for that. Joseph and I got to do a in that app masters.com slash audit. There is a consultation call where you can jump on a one hour consult with just you and me privately, just like Joseph and I did. All right, let's take a look at it's Jonathan's glisten app. Yeah, cool. Put that up. I see you, AE taps. So I will get to you. Got glisten. You want some boarding and potential product market fit. Yeah, so I kind of gave you that

13:40device there. I think if this is like, say for the ADHD audience who might have trouble kind of focusing and listening to something, that's probably the market. I would cater to because, I mean, ADHD is a thing now since it's like a popular thing that everybody has. And I do know that people do search for ADHD stuff. So master active listening. Well, I love that. You see those little animation struggling to stop drifting off. Not when Steve's talking, boost your term memory memory for career life and relationships. Get going. All right, I don't love a sign in right here. Now look at your own data Jonathan. But what I typically seen is a big drop off here. So really pay attention to that. Like the drop off is typically pretty huge on this page. So don't I wouldn't I personally wouldn't do a sign up right here, but I will sign up just for you. All right. And then I'm going to get Paul's app done soon too. So I'm going to text myself on this phone.

14:45Perfect. All right. I'm assigning just for you. I got you. I see you Patrick's. I think that's Patrick. Patrick, come on. Come for me. That's your name. See just P. All right. So what option describes best? So here, right? If I'm just a student, maybe it's a weekly offer. If I'm a podcast or a legal professional, you could probably charge me more. So mail, but my date range, damn bro, I'm in a 46 range. What listening skill are you most interested in proving for me? Keeping up with slow talkers. Really. Let's see. Pretty, pretty decent at all this stuff, but let's see. Let's put focus and concentration. Why not short term memory? Don't have enough data. I actually prefer the circle to be full versus empty. You're kind of emptying the circle. I kind of prefer it to be full. I didn't really love the rotation, but this is just me,

15:48you know, nitpicking here. Don't change anything other than then don't ask for the sign up, because I think you're going to probably see a lot of drop off. Love this video. There is sound on, but let's see if I can. H, can you hear that sound or no? No, okay. Back. Let me see if I can share the audio. There you go. Let's see. What is Stephen built the platform? Yeah, so I'm now engaging. I love this. Jonathan. I heard you the first time. Yeah, the cavalry just walked in. Later. Let me guess. You hear this now? HR sends you up. Stephen, you're really doing this.

16:48I'm not doing anything. The problem. The HR rep who broke the news is blank and you're the one who stormed in or in a... I'm no idea, bro. HR rep who broke the news is... your Ember H director? What do you think? No, don't remember. My director. The other thing I would say is look, this might be good after the paywall. He's the best engineer we've got and you're causing him like... He's a contractor in Berlin. That whole office is gone. Eight years he gave this place. You can't hear the audio anymore, right? I still hear it, but that's fine. I can get through it. So I like this paywall. What I might... Okay, I love this free trial. Continue for... And then you have a 14-day free trial. Love this toggle. I like this paywall a lot.

17:49I think for an app like this, you should hard paywall them, especially since you have the five. If you're going to do anything, Jonathan, just look at the numbers. Is there a drop off on the sign-up screen? Is there a drop off during the five tests that you give? Because I might move the five tests to a bit later here. And man, this needs some work, bro. Like this is pretty bad. By the way, the audio is still going on. Jonathan. So there might be a bug in the app. Just keep that in mind. I know you guys... I lowered the volume on this so you guys can't hear it, but I was still hearing it myself. It was pretty bad. Okay, and I think this could be cleaned up. This feels too messy. It doesn't feel like a brain training app. If you're going to be a brain training app, you need to really focus on UI UX because you know, I need to feel like my brain is the most important thing. And I feel like your UI doesn't instill a lot of confidence that this is a well-built app for me. All right?

18:54Okay. Cute. Old friend of the Vec. How's it going, bro? Danville, Danville, California, or Danville? Where the other Danville be? Are we neighbors? That's cool. What up? Andre. And then we got C-Side, Yep, it's Patrick. All right. Any tips for Max conversion for ASA? Tell me more. Okay? So if you guys don't know about this, I did a video. Look it up on YouTube. Like it's like our we're spending $80,000 for a client and that can show you the ROS positivity there. But Max conversion campaign, we have a, what we're finding is it is a good campaign. But our basic plus that it's only shared in the app master's academy and our app founders community. So appbounders.co, you can get access to that. But Max conversion, if you don't want to pay, don't we're not asking you to pay and join that community. But Max conversion is the next best. But we're seeing that basic plus sometimes performs better than Max conversion. But any tips, eight taps, like I don't know what specifically you want. But what I do for Max conversion campaigns

19:59is I do leave the search match turned on. And then so when I create the broad campaign, I only focus on a few keywords. Pick the ones that have the highest traffic that are in your niche. Put those keywords anywhere from five to 10. And then put a really high cost per tap and whatever cost per install you're aiming for. What I've also seen other people do, that's the broad. So there's three different ad groups in this Max conversion campaign. The broad with search match turned on. And I have data that you should leave search match turned on. So leave it on. And then exact. So you have all the same keywords, the five to 10 as the exact match with the super high cost per tap. And then Apple automatically creates an automated one that uses your metadata to find new keywords. So those are the three you can't get rid of the automated, but I would have the broad and exact match because we've seen other clients where they have an exact match. And because within the Max conversion campaign and the campaign settings, you're saying, you know,

21:00I only want to cost per install for let's say $2. Apple will do its best to get through that inventory and hit that $2 cost per install versus whatever Max cost per tap you have. So hopefully that answers your question. But if you have specific ones, then yeah, let me know. Andre, all right. Cool, man. You're from Danville. All right. We're neighbors. Come on by. Send you my address. All right. Patrick says, I ranked number one for a keyword for the first time the other day. Only lasted 24 hours, but it was fun while it lasted. Congrats. Patrick, but I think you're in the community. But anyways, then, you know, we'll show you how to actually maintain that. And we talked about that in our hangout earlier this morning. All right. Let's see. Hakeem got to help my buddy Hakeem out. Fix on boarding, as you said, and started our first ASA campaign with quad cohort. Nice in walking us through anything. Any recommendations for a math app like ours, $40 a day across five tiers, two countries. Yeah,

22:04Hakeem, like think about iPad. Like if you got $40 a just let it fly and see what happens. But I would also focus on the iPad. The iPad ASO is a lot easier to rank for. And one of our clients right now, man, doing bonkers, like 200,000, 200,000 plus, okay, revenues. But under 300, I think it's like 220, 250. Anyways, about 200 of it, 200 of the 250, just keep math simple is on iPad. So iPad, I love that. It might not scale as much, but the revenue per install on an iPad install is amazing. So maybe think about an iPad only campaign, especially Hakeem, if you're going after those really competitive terms like math related terms. And I know we talked about this a bit in our call, but think about the iPad because iPad is very, very interesting to me. All right, got some more questions from Luis is hard, hard, hard paywalls that thing right now, Luis, it depends on where you're

23:10at with the app. But look, everything works. If you're getting downloads and you're trying to drive in, you're still early in the app journey. So let's say anywhere from under 10k, you know, that's sort of, I try to hit 1k first. And then ultimately, then in the next step for me is like five and then 10 ultimately, I like to jump five and go straight to 10 like we all would. But if you're underneath that, think about hard paywall because depending on the category, hard paywalls do tend to convert better. If you're just early on, hard paywalls will force you to make a decision. And I just launched the video on Tuesday where we show you two paywalls, how two paywalls are performing, have tripled conversions, tripled sales. And it has a hard paywall as well. So that initial paywall and then towards the end, you get the hard paywall. So you can do it that way. And then, again, I'm going to share this in our our founders community. But there is, I'm sorry, you see other apps do this, but there is a great way to sort of have that nice blend while still

24:13having a quote unquote, soft paywall while still having a hard paywall. But I'm going to save that for a private channel there. But yes, definitely do it. Okay, answer your question. All right, what's up, Joe? What's your take on using the Hongle filler? Filler character to rank for keywords without displaying them in the app title. Yeah, so let's just keep it broad without game generic. If you want to target a brand that's pretty well known, there are two ways to do it. One, put that keyword to the left of your keyword field. We found that keyword to the left tend to have better rankings. This is anecdotal data, but we were able to get to number two for Apple wallet for a client. And we have wallet in the title. And we just moved Apple all the way to the left. It used to be somewhere on the right. I moved it all the way to the left as the first word. And then we just got to number two or three for that particular term. So I feel like the more left in the

25:16keyword field, you can do it the better. The other way is to just hide it in the Spanish Mexico. Look, I'm not a lawyer. If you get in trouble, don't get a lawyer, no, duh. But like don't come after me if you get in trouble for this. But if you want to be play a risky game, you can hide that keyword. So in the US, it's in the keyword field in Spanish Mexico. You might want to add it in title and subtitle. So that, you know, your hopes is nobody looks at the Spanish Mexico localization. And you can hide those keywords in there. So that's another way to do that. But again, do at your own risk. I'm not telling you to do anything. All right. Okay. Got a question about reviews. We got one app. We've been trying to launch man. We've been in Apple's been rejecting stuff. So I can tell you like, you know, we've been talking about hate onboarding. Let me answer his question first. Hi, nice session that you were great insights. Okay. My question is I have two apps that are waiting for review. First one is for 15 days. The other is seven days. What would you recommend? So

26:20listen guys, if you're launching a brand new app, what and we have a client that's doing that right now and really cool client. But I told them launch it as soon as you can. Meaning like, I'm sorry, let me be frank. Submit to the app store as soon as you have a working version. Because that first version that you launch for any new app is going to take a little bit longer. Hopefully this is, I don't know if this is happening for you, Hunter. But it's going to take a little bit longer. Apple's going to pay a lot more attention to that new app that first go around. So launch a good enough app to get it through the app store review process because you never know how long it's going to take. It's delayed my launch by like two or three weeks now. And so it sucks. So just launch it and then never like make it public. Don't let it be available for everybody. Then you can start to upgrade the screenshots, add these little features. But that first go around with the new subscriptions. Apple's always going to play closer attention. So you can do that.

27:23Hunter, the other thing you can do is there is a link that again, I've only shared in the community. But there is a special link you can use to schedule a call with Apple. I'm sure you can find it if you just AI it. But use that link. And then you can try to get somebody from Apple to jump on a call with you. When we had our India app Santa taken down, I was able to do that. They're a lot friendlier when you get them on a call. Did it help? Nope. India app Santa is down. We have a different version of India app Santa did not hasn't changed the results. And I did. I'm happy to give you guys an update on India app Santa and the effectiveness of the campaigns because we just did it for one of our apps. And I'll kind of cover that in a different video. But anyways, that's what I would do. The only other thing you can do is just reject it and re-submit it and hope that you get a different reviewer there. So there it is. Okay. Let's I've already done two apps. So let's do a couple more questions. Andre says my five year old app got an unnoticed technical outage for a couple of

28:27months and got lots of bad ratings. And I can't recover from them for several months. Any advice? So Andre, it depends on how many reviews you have. You could just easily just reset them and be done with it. Right? So I might just do that and just start over. Because if it's let's say if it's in the thousands and you're like, I don't want to reset that Steve. But if you're in the few hundreds like you could probably and especially if you're like under 100, you can recover from that. You'll be fine regardless. So I think the benefits of the sheer number far out way the the the con. Yeah. The benefits of having such a high number far away the cons of just having a 3.9 and a hundred ratings. Right? So you can just reset it and just start over there. Yeah, great question from Joe. At my day job, we've been in review for a new app all week. Not waiting not even waiting for review, but in review itself. Yeah. Like I told you on a new app like a new app

29:28takes a long time. So take my advice. Launch it when it's good enough when you have a good enough working version because Apple is going to take a lot more time, especially in his day and age with all the AI slot that's going out. I think that's why Apple is taking a lot more time. Is this something more on the app store? Because once it's approved at first time, it becomes a lot easier to get it proof subsequently. So like all the things that we're getting rejected for for a new app literally are live in other apps that are other popular apps literally they're live. Right? You can't you know, there's a lot of popular apps that still ask for a rating during the onboarding. There's still a lot of apps that you know ask for a rating after somebody activates a trial. Like a lot of people do this. These are best practices, but we're getting rejected for them because it's a brand new app. All right. Let's get into. Yeah, you guys if you're in the comments everybody's complaining about the review stuff. All right. Let's get into the next app. I have value studies here. All right. Cool. We've got shanes. Let's get into shanes app and then

30:33Paul, I'm going to cover your app at the end because I need to download it using that promo code. All right. Shane, you're here. Value value study. I see you. All right. That might be a job. So maybe this is shanes app and then whatever. Okay. How to grow the app without getting people that don't understand it value study is a tool that helps with value studies. An artist looking for it would know straight away. How do I grow the user base without trying to sell it to someone that doesn't need it? What the heck is value studies with that helps with value studies? So okay. There's a couple of options here. Art reference. It looks like you have great ratings. Okay. So that's awesome. I'm going to Google it because I have no idea. Value study is a simplified drawing or painting that maps out the light and dark patterns of the subject without using color. Awesome. Yeah. I was going to say Google might be interesting, but according to I have keywords everywhere because I know you guys ask when you see me share my screen. So

31:33keywords everywhere. I have it on. I do pay for it. But I'm able to see that. How it's me to see the search volume of particular keyword pretty easily. It's only 260. So it's not a huge market chain. This is a market where you do need probably ads and more of a push campaign. So hopefully your number one for value study. And for an app like this, you are like iPad is the most interesting for me. Get good. Good. Number one. There too. The to grow this and to people not having this. What I would say is this, you can use your if you're getting people downloading not understanding it, you can use your screenshots to tell them what you're selling right now your screenshots are selling to the somebody already knows value study. And if your problem is that what? Okay. I'd see what you're saying. If your problem is that you're getting downloads that people don't understand it, then like you need to explain it to people. So I would try to explain

32:42it a bit more like, Hey, what is value study? Or hate's an art reference app. It's like, okay, if you're not familiar with it, you're not the right person for this. But I think you're selling too much to somebody already knows a bit about it, which might be good, right? It's good and bad because it's good that but I would just explain it. The value study app, see the differences, blah, blah, blah. And then I did do the singular version of value study still 260. So it's not a whole lot of volume. And I feel like this is one where it would probably do pretty well on meta. Like I think meta would, if you know, I mean, you seem to be an artist, so you seem to know your audience. If you can, we have a client and a friend of mine who is doing really well on meta right now and his app is not super niche, but niche enough and man, his numbers are amazing. So I think if you can find, if you do can get the right creative, you know your audience and target

33:44the right audience, you can do wonders on, you can really scale this app through ads through meta or TikTok, wherever is more valuable. But yeah, this app is, it's got high potential, especially with this number of rating, 3000 over 3000 ratings with 4.8 average rating. That's amazing man. Congrats to you. Okay, shall we go through the app Shane? Yeah, you're here, might as well, especially since you're here. Give you some feedback on the app itself. And just like that, my thing freezes. Let's see if I can get it back. Simple solution. Did you restart it? The answer to every single problem we have. All right, I'm going to use a different piece of software to show off my phone, start broadcast. This one's a little bit laggy, but you know what? Quick time has been working pretty crappy lately.

34:48Center this for you guys. Bring it back. All right, let's bring it in. Let's get into Shane's app. So welcome to Valley Study, helping you simplify shapes and refine value. Love it. You know, this is where you can ask too. Like, do you know what value study is? So yes or no? Are you new to value study? That's the easiest way that you can start to do that too. Use your color palette. Guess gray scale. Customize the value. Okay, I don't know what to do here. Sure. What art mediums do you use? None. But all right. Love this app store. Okay, nice. Look, I think you can charge a bit more. Shane, I know you're an artist and you're like, I'm an artist. I like to make sure I give value. It looks like you're in the UK or Australia. I don't know what exactly where, but just based off of the way you spell color. I don't know where you're the queen's English, not the

35:54presidential English, but I would say in the US, and I know you have a lot of revenues, probably more in the US than anywhere else. But typically, I think, you know, in Chris said this last week in our podcast, he found that $2,999 because he does test primarily with lifetime, since I saw lifetime for you. And we're doing the same tests on our app. But when I see a $3 per year, I almost think the absucks. And when I see a $10 purchase, I almost think the absucks as well. So, usually in the US, the higher the price, the more value we tend to put on it. So think about that, especially, I know it's usually like a shocking thing when people outside of the years, he had to hear this knowledge. And that's why I'm only telling you, because I'm going to assume you're not in the US, depending on the way you, because of the way you spell color. But that's what I would do. Play around the price to find the right one that actually gets you the highest revenue per install, right?

36:56UK. Okay. Ha. It was free for years. So I've slightly up the charging. Yeah. In the UK. Yeah. So in the UK, maybe you leave the same, but in US audience, like maybe think about like 20 bucks annually, and then $30 lifetime, that's what we're going to try with our utility apps that are way probably less features than yours. And I'll give you the feedback on that. But that's based off of Chris's interview. And so my sort of like mentality moving forward is take all the things that we learn from these podcasts. And I know you guys learn a ton too and try to implement it right away and then try to give you guys data back on like, Hey, here's what's working. So we have a few tests right now that two paywall tests. I'm running for one of my apps right now with the hard paywall and the Chris's strategy about the $2,999 being the optimal lifetime price for his apps. I'm trying that out with a lot of our utility apps. So we have $5 a week, $20 a year, and $30 lifetime. And I'll tell you how that works. Okay, Joe's got some feedback for you. This paywall is

37:59off. I keep staring at the animating reviews and my attention is nowhere at the bottom where the user pays. I agree with you. And you already have an X up here, Shane. So you don't need to, you're two, you know, you two British, bro, but like you're trying to be too nice. I'll just keep it here. And I agree with Joe. That's why I hate anything scrolling because your eye like a magician, you think about a magician, right? They're like, Hey, look over here. And then I'm hiding something with my other hand. It's, you know, like so don't have things moving because the eye will go to whatever is moving. That's why like visuals. Last thank you. All right, bro. So keep or me keep it up. Let me know how it goes, you know, send me an email or come on to a future live stream. And I'd love to learn whether it worked or not. So I'm going to hit X first actually and figure this out. I'm not value. Oh, love this. Watch and subscribe on YouTube. See? Awesome, dude. There you are, Shane. I'm going to assume that you

39:02okay. And then this takes you to yeah, love. I mean, this makes it so easy, Shane. Like I, I have small hands, but like I have to like, I'm not struggling, but it's not super comfortable to take my finger. My thumb all the way to the continue button. You know what? Simple, though? What's easy? You're free. That's pretty easy. Reach. So maybe think about ways to, that's why I like the X up here. And I might just put one review up here and then put the pricing down here a little bit and just talk about some of the features you get out of it because I'm sure people are curious. Okay. Joseph says we're finding $40 a year. Seems to be good. Spot for us. Don't be afraid to charge more. Yeah, we're seeing similar things for our apps. Like $40 a year is usually my, the price point that we have right now. I wish I could charge more, but I'm a little bit afraid. What's up, K. York? It's CU, bro. Grats on the wedding.

40:06Cool. Let me see. Okay. A lot of review stuff in the comments. Do you have some questions? So, well, man, you guys have been active on the comments. All right. Let's see. H, you're going to have to help me with some of the questions because there's a lot of comments back and forth on this. So maybe you can help me. Okay. This son, I'll go with that and then I'll get into some of the, everything after that. H, can you help me with some of the questions? Just pull it up. Thanks, bro. Okay. Is a language learning app game okay to make the first India app? Look, Andreys, like, if you think about the tentacle strategy. Okay. So here's some, home, here's a moment for you, bro. The what I would do is think about, I'm going to say yes or no. Yes, potentially, but maybe not in the US market because a language learning app

41:06is interesting, but if you're going to go after Spanish, English, probably too competitive. So I did a podcast way back in the day with somebody that was focused more on like Southeast Asian markets. And so Burmese, that's where I'm originally from Myanmar, Burmup, the Thailand Thai Vietnamese. And that was it. That was the whole strategy. Learn these other languages. So maybe yes, but think about what market, think about what language, and think about where there's volume outside of the US. And that's what mose. So I did a podcast with them two weeks ago. And the title is, this developer made $5,000 MMR look easy. And he kind of breaks on the entire process. And he kind of shared his, his MCP with us in the app founders community. So the benefit being the community. And we got to see and his stuff works because I tested with my app. We saw the Netherlands seeing a lot of volume with the max conversion campaign.

42:08So all I'm telling you is his stuff works because I validated his data and you can start to build an app outside of the US, where that particular market. So I would say yes, but think about where other markets you can go after. Thanks, H. How about open place central for pickle ball? Is this a good app hyper targeted audience? Dude, good app or not, it doesn't matter as much. With this app, what I would say is yes, we've worked with a, I love pickle ball. I've worked with a pickle ball app. It's getting more competitive than you think for that term. So ASO might not be the best play, but you can drive pretty low cost installs for this type of stuff. But with an open play, like it's hard. There's, I think there's just play or something. There's an app I use. But a lot of times when I play people, I just go to a local court and just follow the stuff. So that's usually good enough because what I found with these open play type of apps is you need a

43:09lot of people. And you need a lot of people using that app. Otherwise, it's dead. So it's a marketplace. The downside to a marketplace is it takes a lot of time to build it up. But once you are built up, it's very hard to disrupt because it took so long to build up. Think about Uber, you think about Lyft, like they have drivers, they have demand. It took a long time to build up. And now that they've got a foothold on the market, it's very hard for new entrants to come in and be like, I want to be the next Uber. It's like, okay, but I already use Uber a lot and I trust Uber. I trust Lyft. So that's that's the sort of, I don't like it. I would probably just try to do it for all sports because I mean, I wouldn't do it for all sports, but I just think it's too hard for me. It's too hard. And I'm impatient. Okay. Hey, you got another question that you found out? No more? Okay. Okay. Yeah. H is in the background just telling me stuff. This is all conversations amongst

44:10each other. That's insane. Okay. Well, he had 3000 registered pickables. Great, but from where? If they're all 3000s in Danville, California, amazing, bro, congrats. But if they're 3000 all over the world, your job is to be dense, not wide. Right. So if you want to do it, then I would just say I don't know, Florida. There's a huge pickable community in Florida. Then I know a lot of pros are from there. So I might just pick Florida and just go, okay, let's really concentrate on Florida. Let's build this out in Florida and then we'll take it worldwide. That's the way I would do it. That's what other dating apps that I've had on the podcast do it. That's how Uber started. Black car in San Francisco driven by the founder. So that's how I would launch it. If I were to launch this app, you know, my job isn't to tell you what if an app is a good idea or not, my job is to tell you, like, Hey, here's how to market it. Because if you told me I would get into a stranger's car and let them take me to my house and to the airport, I would have said that seems like a ridiculous

45:12idea, bro, but Uber exists. So it's big and I use it too. Okay. Let's get into man. How do I redeem codes? Paul's app. But so Paul's got to pay that. But I'm Paul. I forgot how to do it. I thought it was in the app store. How to redeem stuff. Let me answer this question. Settings, app store and settings, app store. App store settings. Let's have to go to redeem. Where the hell do I redeem stuff now? Yeah, that's what I did. Okay. Let me get into value study. Shane says, when you said put price up in US, would that be an AB test or literally, yeah, all US products. So Shane, I would probably just say, be test it just because am I right or wrong? So just

46:16AB test it for now. All right. Okay. Thanks. It's free within app purchases. I'll go there. Here, H, I'll show you what I'm looking at. I tapped on my name here. Yeah, there is an option over there and a bottom. We need to go back. Go back. Back. Yeah. Back. Yeah, there is an option. See the middle one. Blue. Oh, we're team code. Wow. I'm blind, bro. All right. Let me just do that. Thank you, H. There you go. All right. I know. All lucky. I got much. So here's Paul's app, Congo, Bongo, metronome, design the rhythms that you play along with real congos and bongos,

47:17no clicks or beeps, the rhythm library share. So I love this type of app. Metronome would be the primary keyword that you're targeting. And I think you're just trying to make it fun. If I'm not, if I'm just I'm kind of really analyzing this correctly, Paul metronome is the main keyword. You're trying to make it more fun by having this monkey in there and trying to train it. So he wants ASO and onboarding monetization. So from an ASO perspective, metronome is the main keyword. So lean into that. So you might be like metronome monkey, like MailChimp or MetronomeChimp. I like these type of names because one, you know, to our app, we have this app called SignPanda that I'm running. I just ran it in the app Santa campaign on. Whoops. This is in Mexico. But after I ran the Indiana Santa campaign, some of the people are like, we did a lifetime free plan. Some people are like, hey, Steve, you know, yeah, they sent me emails asking for features.

48:18One, it's secondly, they were like, I downloaded it because of the icon. So I feel like, you know, I didn't think that icons were that important, but Chris talked about it in last week's, again, you know, I'm trying to implement it fast. So we're a testing icons for one of our new apps. And I'll just kind of show you guys which one one. But I do think icons are important, especially for apps that have a more utility, like signature maker, like, you know, like, how much different is this app from all the other signature makers and creators? Not that much different. I feel like the brand separates it. You know, you think about Doolingo. There's a lot of learns banish, but they're owl. So I like mascots now. Think about that. And I think you have a great job. You've done a good job about this. But metronome would be the primary keyword. And then think about all the keywords under metronome that you can kind of target off of that from the ASOS standpoint. Also, what we typically see in Paul, welcome to 20, the 2020s all, but anyways, free apps generally make more money. Yes, you're like, oh, it's,

49:22it was paid up front before Paul made it free, but this was like from 2013, Paul, like a friend of mine had started with paid apps, made some money, then went to free within app purchases, made more money, then went to free with subscriptions, made even more money, right? And so just cut the line and just go free with subscription. And we've had clients in this particular space that have done fairly well targeting like a niche audience and just having multiple apps. And you'll find one or two that you know can actually scale a bit bigger. So I would say, ASOS metronome go double down on that metronome and and then make it into like metronome monkey metronome conga whatever metronome should be first. Okay. All right, let's get into the app now that successfully downloaded it. I can't go metronome. I'm sure there's audio. Just nothing. Well, it's just not coming through. Oh,

50:24well. Sorry, Paul. Tap a coconut to turn a beat on and off. Okay. I'm sure you can hear it better. Swipe up on a coconut for a hydrome. Swipe down. So I just don't swipe left. Nice. You got it. Make now make a rhythm. Okay. Again, I don't know if you have in app purchases, but this is what I would try to have on here. Now, I don't know. I don't have enough case studies, but I also feel like having an app like this, the vertical mode, I never know portrait landscape, but this portrait. So the vertical mode, I feel this is just what my gut says, it converts better than horizontal mode. And the only app that I've seen this that can kind of link to is called lingo kids, where they do

51:29have a vertical onboarding, but the app usage is horizontal. So if you want me to use it horizontally, maybe just have a vertical onboarding, what you're missing is just an onboarding experience. I know it's like upfront paid app, but I think just having making it free, adding onboarding screens, this tutorial with sounds in the background, I'm sure you have it. I just don't have audio turned on and a paywall eventually will do a lot better than your current monetization of paid off front. So that's how I would kind of do it that way. All right. Andre says, how do I get after viewed? Andre, where were you bro? Where were you just passively listening at masters.com slash audit. Again, there's a long lit waiting list. So if you think that's going to get to next month, it's going to take a long time. You can speak, you know, shortcut it. You can sign up for a paid console with me, but yeah, for there, it's just at masters.com slash audit. Okay.

52:31Make sure no. Cool. Paul, let me know if you had any other questions. And then H, I think I'm all caught up. Turns to questions. So thank you for your help, brother. All right. Andre says, what are the most effective distribution channels methods for 2026? Andre, it's a hard question to say. Personally, I like to start off with ASO and Apple ads. Chris said the same thing last week, primarily because it's one of the easiest ways. Along as people are searching for your particular app, it's the easiest way to get some initial downloads because I like to use ASO and ASA just to confirm my funnel is working because I know the keywords. If people are searching for it, like Paul's app with metronome, I know it's the right audience. So it's not the wrong audience. And I know each download should typically convert. And we've seen ASO and ASA be one of the highest converting channels. Right. Does it, can it scale? Yes. It will hit a limit, but it can help you with just a starting point. Then I would go to TikTok or meta or Google, but those are the big five.

53:37I have a slide for all this and I'll share with you guys, but I think people complicated a bit and just kind of do everything. What I've seen from the successful Indies that we've got to work with in the past is they just have one or two channels and then they figured that part out. And then they go, okay, I'm adding on this other channel. So here's my favorite slide that that GBT helped me create, but essentially stick with these five and stick with one or two in the very beginning because I've seen apps and I have the proof where they're able to hit five million ARR, which just one literally one or two of these channels. That's it. So one of our clients doing four plus million ARR, guess meta, when Indie developed, I just talked to and hoping he can come on, he knows who he is, but he's been able to scale to about a million MRR, which is meta. And then he's like Steve, can you help me with Apple ads? So we're working with him

54:37for the Apple ads side of things, but he was able to scale it with just meta. You don't need that many. So depending on your audience, I think for me, I'm just always like, is this a push or pull campaign? So for value study, there's just not a lot of volume, people searching for it. So it's a pull, it's a push campaign, right? You're going to have to get in front of your audience and say, hey, I have this great app come downloaded. And that's meta, right? That's TikTok. Whereas Google, SEM, Apple ads, and ASO, they're more of a pull campaign. Hey, you're looking for metronome, you're looking for app blocker. Come over. And when you search for it, I want to show up and show you how cool I am, which is screenshots. And then you download the app. So that's how I start to think about it. Is it a pull? ASO, and I should probably update this, ASO, Apple ads are Google or is a push meta and TikTok, where I have to tell people about it. And that just, it's just data. Whether people are searching for it, tells you which channel you should go to. All right. Right. H, okay. You the man, H, all right. The, any advice value study Shane says,

55:50any advice for how to make the most out of Android? I have good reviews, but nowhere near the same amount of revenues. Welcome to life. I would say Shane, that's just the nature of the beast. So with Android, we found that start free trial tends to work better with Android. You need a whole lot more downloads than you can on iOS. What I would say with Android chain, and this is what's work for another client of ours is meta might be the best audience ASO audience might not be good. Because with meta, at least you can tell and then you don't have that many privacy issues with iOS that you do on Android. So you can tell meta, hey, meta go find me people more likely to pay on Android, and they'll find it better and faster than it would on iOS. Right. So that's how I try to think about it. But honestly, like the organic stuff or meta, it's just going to take a lot more users to get the same amount of downloads or sales. I'm sorry. Now, same amount of sales that you get on iOS. You don't need that many users to get the paying customers. But with meta, you can find people that

56:55are have like higher end devices. They're more likely to pay that act like an iOS user than just an Android user. Okay. All right, H, hit me. Which one is this one? Okay. Should we localize screenshots and keywords for every app so now that we have AI to help? Do you do like yes, but take it one at a time. Figure out Mo, cover this in his video. Figure out where there's search volume. Figure out if they're okay with just English. Figure out you can get to number one where that country and you're starting to get downloaded. Then go ahead and localize the crap out of everything with the help with AI. Distribution happened with the help of AI. This is the same question you can say for should I build a bunch of different apps with AI with the help of AI? Yeah, but like distribution matters above all. So that's how I would do it. Like we're number one, you know, since Mo's video and since we started talking, I figured out that for this particular app category, there's a lot of search for

57:58volume in the Netherlands for my app. I was getting sales. I ran a max conversion campaign outside of the US. So I said, all countries set the US from my app. And I did a max conversion. I gave it a couple of different keywords that were like super like top of the funnel. And then just ran. I saw impressions in India. Nobody bought, but I saw impressions in the Netherlands. I saw impressions in Canada, UK, like the obvious ones, but the Netherlands. And then Mo, thank you, Mo, he threw his MCP server stuff. He said, hey, Steve, here's all the different countries where there's volume for your particular niche for these keywords. And Netherlands happened to be number one. And I looked at the earlier today in our founders, the volume, that same keyword has the same search score, it's like 55 in the US as it does in the Netherlands, but in the Netherlands, the difficulties like a 17 according to Astro, but it's like 60 something in the US. So should you localize it? Yes. Which country, you know, really look at the data, let the, let the data tell you.

59:03All right. How do you choose which one to start with? Which one to start with? What? What? The ads? I think I explained that already, but I'm happy to explain that again, but push and pull. Right. Use data. Everything is data driven for me. Thank you, John. My old boss. He said this to me. He said, Steve, if we're going with opinions, we're going with mine because I'm the boss. So if you want your opinion to be heard, use data. All right. Thank you, John, for it's an advice. I have tech to heart and I still implemented. So again, if people are searching for it, use Apple, ASO and Google ads. That's what I like to start off with because it's a lot less levers to pull. I think I have a slide here. I have a slide somewhere else. I'll kind of pull up the slide for you guys. It's a lot less levers to pull. If you're coming up with, let me just share this. If people are

1:00:03not searching for it, like value study and chain, you're going to have to push. So you're going to have to use meta and TikTok and go to your audience and tell them, hey, value study is awesome. Download my app and pay for it. So that's how you figure out which one to use. But if I had to choose, long as people are searching for it, I'd always start with Apple because here's why. There's so many levers to pull with meta and TikTok. You got the creative, you got the campaign set up, you have a budget constraint that you need to hit to. You have 50 installs per week if you're on iOS and trying to set up a meta campaign. They're so creative is the main component. It's the biggest component. So there's too many levers to pull. Whereas ASO and Apple and Google, you just need keywords and your screenshots. I'm assuming I want to make good screenshots. So that's why I like to start off with those first two. All right. Hey, how do I do? Good. All right. Thank you, I'm seeing too many UGC marketing agency now. Yo, that is true.

1:01:09The, but they are not coming under affordable budget. Looks like they're advertising themselves as helpers of indie devs, but they're budget average around $25,000. Any thoughts on that? Ain't kill. I do have many thoughts on this. I would say watch the interview we do with Nicole. She breaks down her entire playbook for you, dude. Get smart about it. And then do it on your own. It's AI can make it so easy. It's not that hard. Like this is what I feel with ASO. If you get obsessive about it, you'll do wonders. And I've worked with people who've just become maniacs. Like you should hear some of my clients tell me like where certain captions should go. What should every three set by three seconds? It should hit this. Like become a maniac about it because it's not hard. Right. It's not hard. But it's not simple. So that's, I think that's what people like to say. Maybe it's simple, but not easy. I think that's the way I think that's the right way. It's simple. It's a simple process, but it's not easy because otherwise everybody would do it. So if you get smart

1:02:12with it, these UGC agencies, like they always promise like, well, if you think for me, I say this with anything, like get a little bit smart with it and then go ahead and hire an agency, right? Because at least then you know if they're not, if they're B.S.ing, you are not. That's it. That's why I need to compute your signs. What's that MCP? Hey, it's already only in the app founders community. So it connects with Astro, connects with, it's a cloud skill that connects with Astro and gives you all the keywords for all the different countries. It's pretty cool. You start off with a few different keywords and it gives you the keyword volume and expands on and translation and expands on different opportunities with just a few keywords in any country you want it in the worldwide. If you want to do that, it's just going to take forever for a cloud, but it's a cloud skill that Mo built and he shared with our app founders community. So it's only in our founders community, but like we should, there's a thing. And maybe H, we should put, I'm lazy. We should put that video

1:03:16in that MCP in our, it's own course on Teachable versus like having it part of the hangout. All right. Yeah. Thanks, H. Maybe you could edit that. That's asking too much. H, thank you. All right. What else, H? Hit me. Hey, there's Mo. That's Mo right there. That's wrong. That's Mo right there. There's Mo. Oh, man. All right. Okay. Go ahead. What was the question? Give us a cell pitch for the community, Steve. It's four, five, eight, a year. All right. You guys wanted to try not to, but look, man, I'll tell you the sales pitch. Okay. It's pretty simple. It's pretty pretty simple. H has this video that auto plays. So did we make it less auto play? Okay, good. Thank you. I hate the auto play too. All right. So look, I'll tell you the real reason why I have this community. It was a community that I joined back in 2013 that was a podcasting community where I met a couple of a bunch of different entrepreneurs when this was just a side hustle for me.

1:04:17And I met so many awesome side hustlers. This is EO fire. John Lee Doomis. It was his community shout out to John, but I met so many entrepreneurs that I feel credit. I give him a lot of credit because I was a part of that energy. And a lot of people in that community started saying I gave my two weeks notice, I gave my two weeks notice. So being around that energy, I looked over to my wife and I was like, babe, I think it's time. Like I have people listening. There's some traction here. I had already signed my first client just hired me purely based off of the trust. Here's a very early listener. And so I was like, dude, this is crazy. With the community, with the podcast, all came together. And I got I had the confidence to leave my sort of job and do this full time. And so right in 2014, I was like, I got to do this community stuff. So I started with 10. It's grown to over 100 people. And it's my favorite thing that I get to do. We meet every other week. We talk shop. Most shared is mcp with us today and how to use it. And you did it live

1:05:22with different certain keywords. So you have a private Slack community. You have access to all our courses. So a lot of it, I would say 90% of is on YouTube. Okay. That's the full truth. But it's more structured within the courses. Then you have access to these tools. Right. So we have discounts as well from zero perplexity, web flow 11 labs. Like we paid for this tool where you have access to all these discounts as part of it. We have regular hangouts that we do. And then currently we're also doing wrote like different challenges. So we have the road to one K challenge that a lot of our communities members are a part of. So you have courses. You have access to me through Slack. You have access to all the other community members and we meet every other week on Zoom. And I go early. So I've been talking since 7 AM my time and now it's already past 10. But anyways, it's a great community. I love it. There's a quarterly plan. There's no monthly because if you're this isn't a come in and get out type of situation. There are people that have been in here and thank you,

1:06:23you guys know who you are for years. I don't take that for granted. I'm appreciative of it. You can sign up quarterly or annual. And then there's actually access to me. Some people are on the coaching plan where we meet once a month and just talk shop. So that starts off with 300 bucks a month. And that gives you access to the community to the mastermind sessions. And then you have a one hour call with me as a free bonus. But then we can have 20 minute coaching sessions every month. So that's the sales pitch. But at Founders.co is where you can find out all about that. X plus beats. I'm in the community. I can't find the MCP. Hey, did you chair in the Slack? Maybe we'll tell you which Slack we're part of. Maybe we I think we should put it in the AI. Don't we have an AI channel on Slack age? Yeah. Okay. Let's throw it in the AI. We discussed in today's mastermind. But yeah, we'll put it into the AI channel as well. Thanks, H. Okay. Shane says, or UGC, I've had great success with

1:07:23Clavster and for micro influencers, there's a guy in Columbia who made a massive impact. So it's a great way to find people. Oh, nice. Thanks, Shane. Appreciate that. Shane, I'm going to reach out to you. But I would love to know where you're at in terms of if you're open to sharing all this stuff, but I'd love to have you on if you've got a pretty decent MRR. All right. X plus beats. Just message H. H. I can't find this. He will or message me and I'll just message H. But he will kill up, dude. All right. He's on the community. H is with me everywhere. H. Do you have a joke? Yeah. Okay. Well, let's end with this. If you guys got any questions, leave a comment. I'll try to answer it all. I'm going a little bit longer than usual. But let's get into the jokes. All right, H. Give me a good one. Okay. Don't lose me. Yes. Okay. What should H do when okay?

1:08:24Hains going to do it. All right. Love to do it. I actually know we have to play now. We'll talk. All right. What you got? I'm going to go first. Just a second. Yes. Let me go first. Steve. Okay. So Steve, how do you know someone has a newest iPhone duo? How? Don't worry. They will let you know. They will tell you. They will show you. I like it. H. Probably true. Jagged out so cool. H. What does Jeff Bezos do right before going to bed? What's Steve? He puts on his pajamas on. There you go. Pajamas on. Pajamas on. Write that first on. All right. Put, ask if you thought my joke was better. And then put H. If you thought H's Wamp Wamp joke was better. So where's my Wamp Wamp Wamp Wamp. H's H. You have another joke?

1:09:25Yeah. Let's go for it. Yes. Steve. So what do you call a person who saw an Apple store getting robbed? What? I witness. Yes. Right. I just want to do that. They change it. Instead of giving you. We should just end with that. Actually, that's going to be the new sound drop for all the jokes. All right. H. Tally that sucker up. Don't you lie. Don't you cheat, H. Man, what are these? You guys seriously? They'll let you know. There you go. Get the heck out of here. Thank you, Mo. Through one. You're a real one, Mo. All right. Any other questions? So for James Patterson, man, what are you in author? Are you the James Patterson? You know, as someone with the other famous last thing, I would love to know. But thank you, James.

1:10:27And then H said, if you're in the community and you missed that call, we're going to share it through Zoom, are being through Slack. And so just look out for that as well. Juju says, I've seen a technique where people will enforce the paywall. If it comes through from a meta ad link versus no paywall, free trial, if a regular downloads, any thoughts on this. Juju, I covered this in a other video. And I don't expect you guys to watch all my videos. Okay. That's kind of boring. I'll never expect that. But here's what I talked about because I'm a believer in a hard paywall. What I've said in the past is once you, so here's how you can do this. All right, Juju. Where the fudge is it? Let me find you. Oh, yeah, here it is. And pull it up, Juju. And I'll end up with this. Oh, we lost age. And hopefully he lost in the diagram. Okay. So hard paywall on pay traffic. So I would still rather, regardless of where they're coming from, like I would show a paywall during the onboarding. All right, Juju. So make sure

1:11:28you show a paywall on the onboarding no matter where they come in from. But should you show a hard paywall? So I should give you the numbers. Our paywall did work for an app that we purchased back in 2022. I'm no longer part of that partnership or that deal, but it worked really well. But I also got a one star bunch of one star reviews saying that now the app used to be free. So for those like, I want to be free for a long time and then shoot off charge them later. This is what happened. We bought the app was free for a long time. You only saw this if you were first time download. But if you delete the app and reinstall it, let's shoot. You're going to see that paywall. So we got a lot of one star reviews. But now I started thinking, what if, now this is a simplified way of doing it. On this, how did you hear about us page, which is very popular in acts as a backup attribution. What if when people said I search on the app, so are you sure it's soft paywall? You had to X. But if they put Instagram or Facebook or TikTok or any page channel, you remove the X and you do a hard paywall. And so it worked. And now granted this was from a budge. Moscon. I know it's

1:12:37first, but it's baiting me. Anyways, Super on app stack as an integration that allows you to do that. And he said it worked really well for him. So all his paid traffic would get a hard paywall where all the organic traffic would get a soft paywall and have the X. But juju every traffic source has a paywall. So definitely make sure every traffic source has a paywall, but you may want to show a hard one for the paid traffic, just to mitigate some of that one star reviews. But that's sort of my hypothesis. All right. All right, here's what Shane says. I did free for a long time. I was at 99% of the existing users were more than happy to pay. I gave them three months heads up. That's awesome. You hate by the way, I'm not the Patrick in the community. Yeah, it was Paul's my bad. Yeah, no, I'm named after my father. And Shane says, thank you so much for thank you so much.

1:13:39Great video. I appreciate being able to ask questions here. You bet. Where can we ask questions? Literally, were you asking this funny, unless you're making a joke. H. I had a question. So I think I answered it. Who won the dad joke round? Great age. This is why I won't want to be all this much my drum roll. I don't know how to jump. All right. Thank you PJ. All right, Andre. Hey, I'll reach out to you and you know, if you're around, give me a couple of days. All right, that is it. H, who we got on next week. We got Jeff from yeah, we got a great guess for you guys next week. It is Jake Castillo from he's one of the co-founders of Cal AI and we're going to kind of talk about all the marketing tactics, the

1:14:39apro tactics from a Cal AI perspective. So I'm super excited to have Jake on and bring you more and more awesome content. I've seen the YouTube audience continue to grow and the scene the videos grow the views grow. So thank you so much for being a part of this journey with us. I'm happy to do this weekend and week out. It's one of my favorite passions in the world to do this with you. So Jake's going to be an awesome guest. We've got some amazing guests lined up and Shane, I'll reach out to you or reach out to me and I'd love to have you on. So if you are an indie developer and you've got a great story to share, long as you're at a pretty decent MMR. I've gotten a ton of emails. Now, know if you're a real one because you shoot me an email and you're just starting out. The emails I do not want is like, Steve, I, you know, I'm just starting out and I've done all these mistakes and I love to share all my mistakes with you and I go, okay, what's your MMR? And you're like, I've got barely any sales like bro, don't need to know all the mistakes you made because I probably made them all. I need to know once you've found the breakthrough, then we can share the mistakes. That's a way more interesting story than you just sharing mistakes

1:15:40because I can do that right now. I don't need you. All right, it could just be a blog post. So anyways, find the breakthrough first. Then come on and let's share your mistakes along the way. Well, we're sharing the breakthrough as well. All right, you're a real one because if I see that message email coming up, I know you ain't a real one. Steve, before doing a hard or soft paywall, is it better to allow this structure, the bigger apps in the small niche use or should I go for a hard paywall always? Yeah, look, I don't trust the bigger apps. They are big for a reason, right? And even then like I had a, this heated, it wasn't a heated debate, but I had to debate with somebody and said, look, calm does this. They were only showing one one plan yearly and I'm like, bro, most data, most my data tells me two plans convert better than one, three plans convert better than two. That's most apps. Guess what? At the time, calm did just have the yearly. Guess what? A month, two or three weeks later, they have their monthly back because it works. We had one client that was doing $10 a year, just $10 a year. They had $1.99 per month, $10 a year, and they're like,

1:16:46hey, 90% of everybody buys the year. So they removed the monthly from their paywall. Guess what happened to the sales age? It went down. It went. Because the $10 looks so much more attractive when you put $1.99 for the month, you're like, oh, that's like so cheap $10. But if you don't have the $1.99 anchor, people think it's kind of expensive. So that's why I like to, now every test, every app is different, but don't always trust what you see with the bigger apps because they're big for a reason. That means they can make a lot of mistakes where we can't. All right, last question I'll say goodbye. Thank you, Hakim. I want to run Apple ads for my app in worldwide. So what is best strategy for segmentation? Need I run a campaign for each country? Okay, Mo. So, Mohammed, what I would say is the best strategy is to find a country that converts pretty well that there's low difficulty. So for me, it's Netherlands. And I happened to find this because I started a worldwide campaign

1:17:51using a max conversion campaign. So everybody, everywhere else, but the US, then I looked at the impression share. I only gave, hey, I want $2 per install. I looked at the impression share and I saw the countries that I saw the most impressions on. Then what I would do is then stop that campaign, found Netherlands, then I would create another lens specific campaign so that I can give it more budget because I know I can grow in that particular market a bit more than I can. Maybe in India, where am I getting down? I'm getting down those, but no conversions. So I'm trying to find the country where I can get a low cost install, but still people are willing to pay. And this is what Mo talked about in his podcast. This is worked time and time again. And so that's how I would do it if I were going through with you. All right, that is it. I got to get out of here. I want to give a shout out to my son. I know he's downstairs, but he's off to college. So it's bittersweet for me and the wife. We're excited for him to go on this new venture

1:18:54and get off to college, but this weekend he's going off the college and we're excited to take him there, but sad that he's no longer going to be in the house anymore. So I'm going to miss my football buddy, but we're going to get emotional. I'm going to miss, but I'm excited for him on this journey as well. All right. All right. Thank you for being here. Lock it, Steve. Bro, I'm really old, bro. Yes. But old enough to have 18 year old. I'll tell you that much. But thank you guys for being here. We can week out. Have a great weekend. H. Thank you, man. Oh, thanks. You look 30 max. I appreciate them and the glasses hide the back. The high backs. All right. That's it, man. But if you have more compliments, I'll stay a little bit longer. All right. Have a good weekend. I'll see you.