Meta CEO Weighs In On AI Safety Debate

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1:00That's the kind of stuff Optum is changing. They're using data and technology to integrate patient care, pharmacy, and everything else. So Healthcare is connected, not complicated. What's that look like? Cheaper prescriptions that are easier to get and care that looks at the whole person. How you need it. Optum is helping make Healthcare work as one for everyone. Learn more at business.optum.com. Bloomberg Audio Studios. Podcasts, radio, news. Bloomberg Tech is live from the heart of Silicon Valley with Ed Loveville in San Francisco. This is Bloomberg Tech coming up Mark Zuckerberg ways in on the global AI safety debate and says AI labs should rely on independent evaluators and advisors to ensure models are safe. Plus open AI could be looking to raise more money before it heads to the public markets

2:01and a new funding round could value it at more than $1.2 trillion. An impulse space announces a 300 and 8 million series the extension we speak with the CEO later. This hour, our top story, Mark Zuckerberg is weighed in on the AI safety debate. The meta-CEO said AI labs should rely on independent evaluators and advisors to ensure that models are safe rather than forcing an industry-wise slowdown. He wrote on X that the company had delayed the release of its latest AI tool, Mule's, for several months to ensure it was safe. Bloomberg's Riley Griffin, who leads a coverage of meta, is with us. Very simply, Mark Zuckerberg is saying, this is for each lab to do itself. Just get on with it. Go through the post. Yeah, I mean, the most notable thing about the post to me is he's throwing a little bit of shade at his competitors. He's here with the tweet that we have on the screen. He effectively has said, we did a slowdown. We did it internally. We didn't raise a kerfuffle about it.

3:01And we didn't call on our peers to slowdown, too. So meta is moving ahead. It's calling on independent evaluation. But it's not saying, hey, right now, we're going to slow down after these calls. Some like camps are emerging, right? So Dario Amade in his anthropic essay on Saturday explicitly said, we think independent evaluation is important. But where Zuckerberg disagrees with Amade is, there doesn't need to be this coalition of the frontier labs together. You talked about safety at Metta with Dean of Palma Cormick. Explain who she is, but also her answer to your question if there was one. Yeah, so on Monday, I spoke with Dean of Palma Cormick in Metta's headquarters in Menlo Park. She is the president of the company someone who came in just earlier this year from the board. She is playing a really broad and sweeping role with her hands all over the AI story. And in this case, she said that safety should be baked in from the bottom up. It should be a part of the process day to day.

4:03Again, it's a polite way of saying, we're not going to commit to slowing down right now. We think this is a part of our process. No, she is in the Gents and One camp, which is safety is an engineering problem, right? It's for the companies themselves to say, if we're good at AI, we should make sure it's safe. That conversation with Palma Cormick's interesting, the question I ask myself is, is Dean of Palma Cormick the present day, Shell Sandberg? How does Mark Zuckerberg rely on her as the face of the company? I think it's a comparison that's made often because of their backgrounds in Washington, their connections to the financial sector, their focus on men's business. She was a Trump administration official. She was at Goldman Sachs. Correct. And Shell Sandberg notably had more connections to the Democratic Party. But in this case, there's a big difference. Cheryl grew the company from something small to what it is now. Dean is coming into 1.7 trillion dollar company, trying to smooth out its rough edges. They have a lot of challenges ahead,

5:04particularly when it comes to the AI backlash, focus on data centers. And she is both helping to clinch deals and retell that AI story. So those deals and that focus on data centers, meta is massively committed to spending on compute. And reading your reporting and the statements from Eda, Dean of Palma Cormick's kind of overseeing all facets of that, it's a really big portfolio for her. She's everywhere all at once. And not only is she working on compute, something that emerged, she was critical to the up to $18 billion settlement with the state attorney's general. That is altogether separate from the compute story. But she is a right hand to Mark Zuckerberg. She has really earned his trust. She left our interview to go have dinner at his house after four hours of conversation that very day. So she's very involved, CJ Mahoney, who is the chief legal officer, said she's the last person consulted on every decision. So it's notable that she has risen to this level

6:05in such a short amount of time. So there's two stories here. Mark Zuckerberg weighing in in the last 24 hours on the AI safety environment, and then Riley's conversation with Dean of Palma Cormick and her profile of her go and read that on all Bloomberg platforms. Bloomberg's really good. And thank you very much. Sticking with AI, open AI could be looking to raise more money before it heads to the public markets. The chat GBT maker is said to be in early talks with investors about a new funding round that could value it at more than $1.2 trillion. That's according to a Bloomberg source. Bloomberg Sharingafari leads a coverage of the frontier labs and is with us. Let's be very clear here. This sounds like this was an investible approaching open AI and saying, should we do this? This sounds like a good idea. But that $1.2 trillion valuation, what would that represent relative to open AI's last private valuation? That's right. So it would be a jump. Open AI's last private market valuation was, I believe, over 750 billion.

7:06I don't remember offhand the exact number. But it would be potentially a big jump for it. But not as big as potentially some of the numbers being floated for anthropics, public listing, expected public listing coming up soon. So it'll be interesting to see if this round has happened how it prices. There are some other reports out there that a valuation could be even higher. I think we lose sight of the basics, right? Remind us where open AI and anthropic actually sit in their path to the public markets. We will assume that it will happen eventually. But right now, they file confidentially, and we're waiting. That's right. So there's been all this talk in the AI industry about a potential slowdown and all this immense anxiety about the risks of AI right now. However, we don't see any signs so far of anthropics, expected IPOs slowing down. And it's sort of from the outside still seems like full speed ahead here now,

8:07at the same time they're having conversations about maybe having external auditors, as you were mentioning earlier on your show. But we are still very much expecting and waiting for anthropic to move forward with its S1 as soon as in the coming days, weeks. So comparing contrast, open AI, CEO, Sam Altman gave an interview to Fortune this past week. And basically, it looks like the IPO will happen next year at some point. But he cited the current environment. What did he say? That's right. So open AI is taking, or as Sam Altman has made a little bit of a different sort of statement, right, than we're seeing with some others. And then he was saying that the IPO could be delayed, or rather that it would be a strange time or moment for his company to go public right now. That being said, as we've reported, open AI has been considering not going public this year, pushing that to 2027, predating this current wave of AI anxiety. So our reporting indicates that that is certainly

9:09the only factor, potentially the main factor here. That being said, yes, it is sort of a cognitive dissonance to be certainly for having conversations about all of this AI anxiety at the same time as some of the most highly valued private companies ever are preparing to go public. Bloomberg Sheringafari, who's the author of the Bloomberg Q&A I Newsletter, which I highly recommend you subscribe to. Another story in semiconductor. So shares of SK Heinex and Intel. Those are the US listed ADRs of SK Heinex, by the way, both higher, markedly higher in Intel's case. SK Heinex says it is exploring options to boost its global competitiveness. That's after a report said it could be teaming up with Intel to make chips in the United States. The memory chip maker said no decisions been made and nothing's been finalized. But on that initial report on the tie up and then SK coming out with that statement, both stocks continue to be higher. Scented from both parties,

10:15blogged a landmark digital asset market structure bill in a procedural vote sending crypto stocks tumbling. So this bill would have handed the CFTC the primary authority to regulate the digital assets industry, but it fell to advance with a vote of 49 to 50. A major blow for crypto industry players here to discuss is summer mercenaries. CEO of the Blockchain Association, a DC based nonprofit dedicated to promoting a pro-innovation policy environment for the digital asset economy. And whether this piece of legislation was pro-innovation or not, right now it's not proceeding. Just on behalf of the industry, summarize your response to how or not how this is passed through Congress. Yeah, legislation is rarely a linear process. You're always going to have two steps forward, three steps back. That's not unusual at all. And so I don't see it as a major blow. This isn't over.

11:16There was a procedural step taken so that this bill could potentially come back up on the floor. And we've got a lot of great things going on at the SEC in the CFTC. At the end of the day, we're going to get clarity for this industry. So this is why the market reaction is so interesting. The market reaction being to the downside, right? The clarity act would basically empower the CFTC. But if you read Bloomberg's reporting, what happens next is that it goes back into the hands of the regulators anyway, both the CFTC and the SEC to make rules. Why is that being perceived through the markets as a negative thing? Well, I think any time you are dealing with just using the regular regulatory process versus having something in law, it's a little bit less durable. That's not to say that they can't come up with a framework. The SEC and the CFTC, I've already been working on some ways to do that. So I think we're going to get the framework that we need.

12:17But it is always difficult to recognize how does this last across future administrations. I do think that there are ways to do it. And I'm confident that they're headed in the right direction. We're just showing the members of your association, by the way, crack in, coin-based, circle, et cetera. Did they want the clarity act to pass? Yeah. Industry wanted it to pass. We still would like to see it pass. I don't think anyone's giving up yet. But again, we can't wait for this to happen. Digital asset users deserve some protections that we're going to be in this bill, but just are not in place right now yet. So using the regulatory efforts to do so, I think, is important. We need to make sure that we don't have another FTX situation. You never want Congress to legislate in a crisis. So we're going to work closely with the regulators. But also, we're not giving up on Congress. Again, these are setbacks.

13:18They're not unusual. And something that I've seen many times in my many years on Capitol Hill. I appreciate that. I would say it's been a slow march, right? Because I think odds of this bill passing over quite a long period of time have been coming down. Right now, there is just absolute focus on artificial intelligence. OK. How much does that sort of universal attention on one field help or not help your industry when they're trying to make regulatory progress like this? Yeah. AI and crypto actually do. They're very much hand in hand. I think we're going to see a lot of intersection of the two industries. So the fact that today you're hearing a lot about AI and less about crypto, that doesn't necessarily mean that people have moved on.

14:18I think that we are going to be part of the AI conversation and how that is handled going forward. And again, we have to keep pushing forward on some sort of crypto regulatory framework. Because the status quo doesn't work. So the interesting political discussion here is that the Clarity Act was intended to outlive the administration of the day, to have rules with some permanency. So if the rulemaking goes back to the regulator, CFTC and SEC, that would leave those rules subjected to amendment by the administration of the day. How much was this the moment under the Trump administration like perceived as open-minded, friendly towards your industry? Yeah. I think it's important that we have this administration that is this locked in on having the US via the crypto capital of the world. And that does give us some flexibility to work with the regulators to get some rules in place that it's not law, but you can get things put in place

15:22that help the markets. That's really difficult to unwind. And people don't want to unwind it after a new administration comes in. Because if you have consumer protections, why would you want to take those away from the market? Some immersing of the blockchain association back on the show, really great to have you. Thank you very much. Sticking with crypto, a quick piece of news. Two former Robin Hood employees were charged by US prosecutors with fraud for allegedly using confidential information to trade crypto linked perpetual futures. There's two staffers allegedly made more than $50,000 each from their trades. A Robin Hood spokesperson says the company has, quote, zero tolerance for insider trading and has, quote, robust insider trading policies and procedures in place. OK. Coming up, we're going to go to space and speak with Tom Nulla in Pulse Space CEO. The company extending its series D by about $308 million also hiring a CFO. Interesting. What happens next? This has been in Boketech.

16:22The people who seem to get more done than everyone else. They're not working longer hours or running on more caffeine. They've just stopped wasting time on the stuff that doesn't move work forward. Switching apps, re-explaining context, hunting for files, those aren't small inefficiencies. They're hours wasted every week. Superhuman Go gives you those hours back. From the makers of Grammarly, Go is an AI assistant that sits inside every tab and tool you already use, always available and already aware of what you're working on. Ask it to draft something. Summarize a long thread, pull up a file, or prep you for a meeting. Go handles it without you ever leaving the page you're on. This is what it looks like when AI actually fits into your work, instead of adding to it. It's like having a teammate whose only job is to help you be better at yours.

17:24Go keeps up so you can move forward. With Go working with you, you can show off what you do best. Superhuman Go. Find out more at superhuman.com. Some people treat Chachi-P-T like some kind of smart search engine, and some use it to get work done. Chachi-P-T work is a new way of working in Chachi-P-T that can take action across your apps and files, stay with a project for hours if needed, and turn a goal into finished work. It's designed to help you move from a chaotic starting point to a reviewable first version. So all the source materials, briefs, and scattered information that you have to grind through to turn into something useful, can just become something useful. Put Chachi-P-T to work on your most ambitious ideas and projects. Get started at chachi-P-T dot com by selecting work mode, available on plus and pro plans. Let's talk about health care for a second. It doesn't always work the way people expect it to. If you've ever waited on a prescription refill

18:25or had a hard time getting the care you needed, you know the feeling. The system should just work better for everyone. That's exactly what the people at Optum are trying to do every day. They're a health care company linking patient care and pharmacy services and using data and technology to drive the whole system, so care is connected, not complicated, for patients and providers. Things like making it easier to get care that looks at the whole person from primary care doctors to mental health support and even in-home care, and then using technology to make sure they all work together. Technology designed to help doctors spend less time on busy work and more time with their patients. In those prescriptions, Optum is working to bring costs down, save patients money and make it easier to get refills. Little by little, Optum is helping make health care work as one for everyone. Head to business.optum.com to see how. Impost Space has announced a $308 million extension

19:28to its Series D round, bringing its total combined to $808 million. The company also announced that it's appointing its first CFO, Adam Townsend, who's joining from Visio, here with Maurice Tomula, Impost Space CEO. I've been where you're sitting now. I've been through the facility with you. I think we start with why extend the Series D. I know you want to get moving. Did you need more capital? Yeah, we did. This shows how much our customers and our investors like what we're doing. We do in-space mobility, moving things precisely around in space and out beyond Earth. We're seeing a lot of demand from our customers, and certainly a lot of excitement from our investors. Tom, I appreciate you have high degree of competence in your own right, in the domain you're focused on. But I do want to understand how post-space X IPO interest has changed in your company,

20:30in your work, the appetite of venture capital in particular to back a company like Impost Space. Yeah, certainly we're seeing a lot of excitement in space. AI is the big technology right now, and with data centers, we now see space combining with AI. So it's just really energizing industry. And also, I think what we're doing mobility is something that's really needed by commercial customers, NASA, and certainly by the government. So in all those sectors, we're seeing a lot of demand for our products. We're talking about, and we're showing space tugs, like for the completely uninitiated, those of us that haven't been to space, I appreciate that's most. What's a space tug? Like, why is that a critical cog in the space ecosystem? Well, that image you have right now, those, you know,

21:31that's Helios, which is that big rocket on a rocket that brought all these, this bright share up to G.O. Security Sorbite. And then you can see the space tugs, the mirror, spacecraft that are undocking from that and going to their orbit. So it's basically, it's a satellite like that right there that has power systems, carries payload. And but mainly what makes it a space tug is it has a very, you know, very powerful propulsion system on it. So a lot of propellant and a lot of thrusters. So it can move around very precisely in space. It can move around with an orbit or it can change orbits. And so who then, Tom, are your customers? Who needs the space tug? For the mirror, mostly has been space force. But we have three of those flying right now. We just did a flyby between our Leo 2 and our Leo 3 missions. They got within about 200 meters of each other. We, those previous flights were mostly commercial and demo flights for us.

22:33And going forward, we have mostly government flights. Although we do have another commercial one, Leo 4 going up later this year. And then we have, when Helios flies for the first time next year, we have our first geo mirror going to geosecenas or of it. So it's a mix of both government and commercial. Tom, when we say flies, which launch system are we talking about SpaceX, right? And principally Falcon 9? Yeah, most of what we, everything we booked for the most part right now that's flying soon is on Falcon 9. We're also going to be flying on on others in the future. So those others are interesting. There's been a lot of debate and reporting about how SpaceX, of which are an alumni, right? Transitions, the Falcon 9 program to Starship. There are these reports that beyond 2029, SpaceX has stopped taking orders on Falcon 9. What's your experience of that to be able to get reliable launch over that longer time horizon?

23:34Yeah, um, fortunately for us, we're already booked on Falcon 9's out through that date. And then a lot of our customers are commercial, I mean, I'm sorry, our government customers, which are already booked through block buys. So we're mostly covered for the next few years. And then I think this is a huge opportunity for all the, you know, the new, uh, other launch vehicles to step up. We've got a few that have flown for the first time in the last couple of years. We've got several, they're going to fly for the first time in the coming year. So there's a lot of demand and I think there's going to be a lot of supply. You've also hired your first CFO. I don't know, were you doing the pencil pushing on the spreadsheets until this point on? But, um, you know, how much, no, go ahead, like tell me what's the thinking about in the hinders like pre-cursor. Yeah, mostly. I've been mostly functioning in the CTO, uh, you know, with the share of my CEO. And Eric Roma, Mr. Roma, has been doing, uh, you know, most of the helping with the financial stuff.

24:36And, you know, now that, uh, we've got so much, uh, customers and, yeah, and really so much capital to manage, we just, it was time for a sea level finance officer. So we were very lucky to find Adam, the guy's remarkable, uh, perfect fit for us. So, um, yeah, it worked, it really worked out at a great time. Um, just from a pure founder perspective, you know, is impulse being a public company one day, an ambition for you, Tom? Uh, we'll see. Uh, yeah, it can happen. It's, uh, not something we're really focused on right now. Right now, we're just addressing the market and trying to build up our, uh, you know, our capabilities. Can we just talk to end the conversation about building? Um, you and I have gone over this in the past, this idea that you are part of an ecosystem in southern California, where there is a concentration of talent, there is the ripple effect of SpaceX coming out of Hawthorne. Just talk about that environment right now and, and, and let's end on, on how it's going. Yeah, there's, you know, a lot of founders of new companies like mine that, uh, that, that we're at

25:40SpaceX or have a lot of key employees that, that we're at SpaceX that have joined. And it's just, I think really, if you think about Silicon Valley is doing, uh, bits, you know, doing software, I think about L.A. is doing hardware. So we're making parts here. We don't, we're making spacecraft, we're making drones, we're, uh, making nuclear reactors. There's all kinds of things going on within just a few miles of, of, of where I'm at here in, in Reno, and beach. Tom Moodle, Vimpulse Space, back on Bloomberg Tech, extending the series, the $808 million. Thank you very much indeed. Welcome back to Bloomberg Tech, the AI Safety Debates heating up in Washington. And for a pic met with senior Trump officials yesterday, is leading AI companies discuss working together on safeguard. Small arrivals warn, new rules could make it harder to compete, and gosh, Ferris thought for the bench capitalist. They must all be there a little bit worried right now. Bloomberg's an attached to mascaranus,

26:40and Maggie Eustlin join us now. So Natasha, I'm going to go to you first. You've done what you always do, which is go out to industry and say, what do you guys think about what's going on here? Right. If you think about anthropic and open-air and private markets, let's say meta in the public markets, there are lots of investors that are bracing for what this net results in, right? Absolutely. I mean, I spoke to over a dozen founders in the first 48 hours since Dario posted his call for AI pacing. And I would say the headline is, we are worried about a regulatory wall emerging here. We are worried that the bigger companies are going to set rules that us small arrivals are going to have to follow. So there is a lot of fear. I would say on the investor side, a little bit more optimistic of, as per usual, of, you know, let's keep working, but everything is fine, no chilling effect here, you know, maybe keep your fundraising dollars a little closer to heart, in case you need to work on your own models instead of relying on the other one. Okay, the US government's really important here. Maggie Eustlin, down in Washington, DC, bring us the reporting. So we know there's been some contact between Anthropic and US officials at

27:46least. Yes, and we know that going into that meeting Howard Lautnick, Commerce Secretary, as well as Amel Michael, we're both eager to push back on Anthropic about this idea, all of this doom that has been spreading and has kind of burst onto the public scene. You saw President Trump post, you know, really just a barrage of comments on his true social platform, talking about how he did not want to slow down AI, and you know, we can definitely bet that that's the message that Anthropic's Tom Brown received on that call that we reported on yesterday. Natasha, you know, timing in, in the world of Silicon Valley, Inventure Capital is everything. There's the report out about OpenAI considering a private market round, pre IPO, you know, is there anything in the reporting that suggests a slow down or a pacing at the frontier, results in reduced activity across the ecosystem, both investment and sort of the activity of founders? I think that will be answered by how successful OpenAI is in getting this valuation and in getting an actual round done.

28:52I mean, our sources tell us that this is something that investors have approached the company with, and so we don't know exactly where it will land, but I do think it will definitely be a sign of where energy and activity is. Maggie, yesterday, UNI participated in a Bloomberg Live Q&A, on what's happening broadly, and there is this idea, let's go back to the David Sachs interview, 36 hours ago, that actually there are enough pieces of regulation and laws in place that no more government interventions needed, kind of summarise that camp in this debate. Yeah, so there definitely is one side of the story here that says, look, these AI companies are liable for the products they make, and if they make dangerous products, they're going to be held responsible for that. One interesting twist in this story is that I also reported yesterday that OpenAI said that it's working with Anthropic and with Google DeepMine already to set safety standards, and they said they actually don't see any need for the government to get involved or to issue any

29:55kind of antitrust waiver for the companies to be able to do that. Maggie, let's actually get some more specifics on that. So this was Crystal Hane doing a briefing essentially, who is Crystal Hane, and literally in concrete terms, what does OpenAI agree to do? Yeah, Crystal Hane leads global policy for OpenAI, and he spoke to reporters yesterday in Washington. And specifically, what OpenAI is saying is they've agreed to look into setting safety standards. Now, this is along the terms of what, you know, Demis Hossivus Google's DeepMines leader laid out in a proposal that compared this to something like FINRA for the financial industry. So this would be the company is getting together and deciding for themselves, you know, what the standards should be, and potentially even grading each other's models or having independent evaluators do that. But right now, it seems that it's still early discussions about this among those three companies. And it's actually there's another party in your reporting more from Maggie's

30:56world, which is the US Federal Trade Commission chair coming in. What did that part of this debate have to say? I mean, that is the thing that a law striker is still trying to figure out if I'm being honest, like how seriously do we take this perspective when trying to, you know, decide what the next even week, month, year looks like in terms of startup spend and how much to kind of change the way we're pacing our own models. They are talking about the the anti-trust exemption, which, you know, Maggie, come back in here real quick on the anti-trust exemption. So this was something the Dario Amadei had mentioned in his Saturday essay, right? The anti-trust exemption. And that is a particular point that David Sax in his response was like, absolutely not. Do not ask for that. But could you try and explain what an anti-trust exemption would look like? Why would be the anthropical others would ask for that? I think the details of how exactly that would look aren't clear. But obviously, anytime, you know, companies are coming together and trading

31:58information, there is a risk there. Open AI and Anthropics seem to differ on this issue. In Open AI, I think, you know, there's precedent for this. There's things like the airline industry. There's sometimes when sharing safety information is not a competition risk. But in terms of a waiver, we actually saw yesterday as well, FTC chair, saying, you know, he'd be deeply suspicious of that. So it seems like the US government is unlikely to issue that. And now Open AI has put forward this plan that they say they can move ahead without any kind of anti-trust exemption. Bloomberg's Natasha Mascaran is here in SF and Bloomberg's Maggie Eastland in Washington, DC. Thank you very much. Let's go to robotics. Agility robotics has a new humanoid robot, and this one is designed to work right alongside people. It's called Digit 5, and it's meant to take on jobs like loading materials or inspecting items. And with more than $300 million in multi-year orders, agility is now preparing to go public through a SPAC. CEO Peggy Johnson explains why. We looked at all of our options available to us, and you know, whether that was staying private

33:03and continuing to fundraise or going versus a standard IPO or choosing the route we're going to through the SPAC, which is the most efficient, quickest way to market. And we have orders pending. We have over $300 million of orders for multi-year commitments for Digit 5, and we wanted to ensure we were able to deliver on those as well as continue to work with the number of customers in our pipeline. So it was really about acceleration speed to market. But it also does give us the ability to define the category. Being first out the door, the first pure play humanoid to go public, we can show other companies what will be needed, the high safety bar, reliability, the ability to plug into existing IT systems in these facilities. The enterprise hardening of the robots is where we'll get to set some of the standards going forward. Well, the first pure play humanoid robotics public company, maybe in the United States. Elon Musk might have something to

34:08say about that with Tesla and Optimus. But how closely did you watch what happened in China and in Asian capital markets with unitary, for example? You know, it's on a regular basis, we're kind of comparing and contrasting the progress on humanoids here in the States versus China, in terms of like the scale of output where they're deployed. What do you take from that? Well, what we take is we want to be able to deliver what our customers need. We haven't seen this to tell you the truth across the industry. We have a robot that can lift 50 pounds over and over again. We have hands that can be replaced with different kinds of tools, swappable end effectors and a battery that allows for three shifts of work with one robot. It's got a 10 to 1 run to charge ratio, which means it can run for 90 minutes and very quickly in nine minutes have the battery recharged. So it was listening to our customers understanding the needs and deploying that functionality

35:13and digit five, which allows us to get paid to work. We really haven't seen that deploying anywhere else yet. What's the jealousy you get to focus on for the next one to years? You'll go public via the SPAC, but in terms of the technology, scaling, what's the big priority for you Peggy? The big priority is with AI, continuing to teach digit five new skills and listening to our customers, what they need, how we can fill in any gaps in their workflow in these facilities. So with AI now, teaching digit new skills can go much more quickly than in the past when an engineer had to program every movement of the robot. So you'll see a lot more functionality, capability from digit five in the next few years to come. That was agility CEO Peggy Johnson. Coming up, we're going to stick with physical AI. Among other early stage investing opportunities,

36:13the slater stage of Bane Capital joins us to talk about the firm's latest fund target, fund targeting early stage AI slater stage of Bane Capital Ventures. That's next. This is Bloomberg Tech. The people who seem to get more done than everyone else, they're not working longer hours or running on more caffeine. They've just stopped wasting time on the stuff that doesn't move work forward. Switching apps, re-explaining context, hunting for files, those aren't small and efficiencies, they're hours wasted every week. Superhuman Go gives you those hours back. From the makers of Grammarly, Go is an AI assistant that sits inside every tab and tool you already use, always available and already aware of what you're working on. Ask it to draft something, summarize a long thread, pull up a file or prep you for a meeting. Go handles it without you ever leaving

37:14the page you're on. This is what it looks like when AI actually fits into your work, instead of adding to it. It's like having a teammate whose only job is to help you be better at yours. Go keeps up so you can move forward. With Go working with you, you can show off what you do best. Superhuman Go find out more at superhuman.com that's superhuman.com. Some people treat Chachy-P-T like some kind of smart search engine and some use it to get work done. Chachy-P-T work is a new way of working in Chachy-P-T that can take action across your apps and files, stay with a project for hours if needed, and turn a goal into finished work. It's designed to help you move from a chaotic starting point to a reviewable first version. So all the source materials, briefs, and scattered information that you have to grind through to turn into something useful can just become something useful. Put Chachy-P-T to work on your most ambitious ideas and projects. Get started at chachy-P-T dot com by selecting Work Mode,

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39:27for building on a playbook it established with its previous fun 10, BCV partners, Slater Stitches with us, and this fund is for life after AGI. Explain. That's right. Well, first of all, I'd great to see you. So good to be here. Thanks for having me on the show. You're right. So one of the big ideas that we have for this fund is that we have stored up this incredible ability with artificial intelligence, and we've seen some applications for it. In some cases, there may be the more obvious applications, but as the technology gets even better, we should expect an explosion of new applications. And we want to approach this fund with the philosophy of really thinking about that hard from first principles. What does it mean like when we go through a technological revolution, an intelligence just as profound as electrification or mechanization earlier? What would it mean to sort of have a post-AGI economy? There are three different sort of, well, four probably, flavors of this, infrastructure, physical AI, which can mean robotics,

40:31security, which given the events of the last seven days is massively important, and then also services of those four to your mind, which is most present in the post-AGI life that you're envisaging. I think that all of those will have important roles to play, and it's just a question of sequencing. You know, sort of in what order will we see these different DC and order? I think that, you know, things that seem sort of like knowledge work on a computer-flavored are going to be the form factor where it's easiest to make progress fastest. We sort of know how we would ascend up the scaling curves there. The models, the base models, get more intelligent each generation, the harnesses get better, the sort of task-cherizing for agents gets better, the tool usage. It's just easier to do things in a purely digital domain. So that's where we see it happening first, but of course we're incredibly optimistic about applications and robotics and other physical world. At applications every time. No, you guys talk about life after AGI. The difficulty is AGI is

41:35not universally defined. Some would say we are at AGI. I'm thinking more recently about OpenAIs release of Astra, and Greg Brockman is an example saying, you know, this is the first step to true AGI. How are you defining it? Yeah, measuring it. Well, you know, one thing I think about is if I just gave my past self-information, what I have called this AGI, I've went back to how I thought in 2016 or something like that. And by that measure, absolutely, I mean, I think if you would told me that we would be solving millennium problems or being able to run these incredibly useful long-running agents that would have surprised me at the time. So I would say that from an economic and also even from a scientific perspective, a lot of the promise we're already seeing there. You know, I do think AGI is one of these terms that can never be fully defined, no matter how good the systems are, there will always be sort of some next thing. But I personally, most interested in the ways that will affect the economy and I feel like the technology is already

42:39there to do so much. This is an early stage fund, right? So it's $1.6 billion to invest it at that early stage for companies where you feel they have an opportunity in that future economy. So if we take Physico AI robotics, for example, where would you apply that to the economy today? Where are the gaps in this US economy where you think, okay, this is ripe for robotics to be the solution? Yeah, I think that the nature of, you know, again, I think a lot of things will happen in the long run. In the short run, you know, application areas with predictable environments, with sort of relatively set tasks are the ones that will of course be easiest. But I, you know, in some ways, in the long run, that might be the least important. So, you know, for example, we're investors in a company called Sunday Robotics that's working on home robots, sort of fully integrated to that use case. And I do think that when you take an application like that really seriously, you can make progress very quickly. You know, I do think that there's also this question

43:45of, you know, the industrial applications will probably have some of the biggest impacts. We have, you know, sort of good industrial robots for relatively predictable manufacturing tasks, for manufacturing tasks that are less predictable. That's where intelligence can actually play a role. Can we talk a little bit about investing? So this is a specific fund. It is fund 11 technically. It comes out to fund 10. What's realistic in a calendar year? Do you go off to high volume? Or do you just say, okay, like this is high conviction in this environment? We have a thesis for this fund. So we'll do a handful of investments and kind of cap it. How does that work? We don't think about it in that way. Like the way that we think about it is that we know what it looks like when we see a incredible founder pursuing an outlier opportunity that we believe in. You know, we might get the conviction on that opportunity in different ways. In some cases, it could be thesis driven. Like you're describing, you know, I would say that our investment in fleet, for example, the Arle Environments Company, happened that way. You know, in other cases,

44:48it's really through conversations with the founder and learning the opportunity that we get to conviction. But I don't think about it in terms of, you know, capital deployment over some period of time or some sort of strict rules about how it would deploy it. It's, yeah. Take us in psych being kept to bench is how it's working as a firm at the moment. So if you have an opportunity or an idea, you're this sponsor of it. How did the partners kind of get around it and decide like, this is the bet we want to make, particularly when you're saying, okay, we want to invest in an opportunity for life after AGI. Yeah, I think it's, so one way that I think about this is opportunities that we think could be tremendously valuable and that we understand the technological path to achieving them. So for example, you know, in companies like Decagon or Cognition, you know, we understand the promise of what those companies are, an automating software engineering or customer support. And it's sort of clear that the plan, if the sort of founders are

45:51able to do the things they want to do that we should be able to achieve that. There's other cases, you know, company like Periodic Labs, for example, which is building an AI scientist initially focused on material science applications where we spend, you know, sort of more time on the technology and sort of why we think the founders are going to be uniquely able to achieve that. I'd like to end the conversation talking a little bit about cognition, you know, they've just closed around. But the thing that's changed for me in the last calendar year or so is the ads in San Francisco. I'm paraphrasing, but it says, Devin is actually good now. Yeah. Which is sort of an admission that it's taken time. But that's amazing. I mean, you see billboards over SF all the time, but just in cognition's case, what you saw in the development arc. Totally. So I really love that campaign. And what I like about it is to me, it's cognition calling their shot really early on. So, you know, at the time that they sort of put a flag out and said, we're going to be the autonomous software agent that works. You know, I would say that the

46:52base models were not quite there yet. At that time, that wasn't easy thing to do. But they understood exactly where things were going and sort of understood that that was the valuable place to be in the long run. And so I think it was like a courageous thing to do. And I think they called it perfectly. Is there a next cognition then with this fund that you think you can find? We do. I think that there will be, you know, other applications that look like this. And then I also think that as you just sort of go up levels of intelligence automation, there will be all sorts of things that we can't even anticipate yet. Slay this there. Partner at Bank, is really great to have you. Finger on Bloomberg Tech. There's a lot going on in the world. Let's get out to New York, where Bloomberg's, your higher-end end is standing by. How are you, Hyra? Hey Ed, it's time now for talking tech. First up, as you said earlier, Europe is joining the AI debt boom between five and 10 billion dollars of data center bonds could reach European markets by year end. That's according to

47:53Goldman Sachs with a bigger wave expected in 2027. This comes as the continent is pushing to reduce reliance to overseas technology. Plus over in South Korea, its deputy prime minister says the country must continue advancing AI without pause or delay. Saying the nation can't afford a slowdown like the one proposed by anthropic leader Dario Amode. The country has of course been one of the biggest beneficiaries of the AI build out. And by dance co-founder John Geeming is now Asia's richest person overtaking Indian billionaire Gotam Adani. The Bloomberg billionaire's index puts John's fortune at more than $105 billion as by dance pushes deeper into AI and moves past that regulatory fight that nearly forced TikTok, TikTok out of big US. Ed, thank you, Hyra. A real quick, go back to Intel and the US as the shares of SK high nakes. Both higher. There was a report that the two are looking at a tie up in the United States over manufacturing, Intel now

48:56markedly higher up more than 5% SK's 80 yards to 1.5%. There is another chip story out there, Apple. In the moment there was some share reaction to a report from the information that Apple is working on an enterprise server that would use its own chips and has held discussions with Nvidia about using its networking equipment. We've done a lot in the program of late about NVLink fusion, etc. The stock is obviously high now for 10% of the percent but in the moment there was a move on that story which Bloomberg is not verified. That does it for this edition of Bloomberg Tech. What an edition it was as well. A lot of you come to the show through the podcast, so thank you very much for that. You know where to find it, but recap on the terminal as well as online on Apple Spotify and iHAR halfway through the wake. This is Bloomberg Tech. Healthcare doesn't always work great. If you've ever waited on a refill or couldn't schedule an

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