Michael Le Flem

0:00I love dead and bold, going subscribed to the book I'm spending, I love dead and bold, I listen to the time subscribe with me. Welcome to the Delling Podge, with me James Dellingpole, and I know I always say I'm excited about this special guest, but before we meet him, let's have a word from one of our sponsors. Global warming is a massive calm, there was no evidence whatsoever that manmade climate change is a problem that is going to kill us, that we need to amend our lifestyle in order to deal with it, it's a normal, existent problem. But how do you explain this stuff to your normal friends? Well, I've just brought out the revised edition, my 2012 classic book Waterman's, which captures the story of how some really nasty people decided to invent the global warming scare in order to fleece you, to take away your freedoms, to take away your land.

1:11It's a shocking story, I wrote it, as I say, in 2011 actually, the first edition came out, and it's a snapshot of a particular era, the era when the people behind the climate change scan got caught, red handed, tinkering with the data, torturing till it screamed, in a scandal that I helped for some climate gate. I give you the background to the skulljugglery that went on in these seats of learning where these supposed experts were following us, we've got to let now, I rumbled their scan. I then asked the question, okay, if it is a scan, who's doing this, and why? It's a good story. I've kept the original book pretty much as is, but I've written two new chapters, one at the beginning and one at the end. Explaining how it's even worse than we thought. I think it still stands out, I think it's a good read, I'm obviously unbiased, but I'd recommend it.

2:16You can buy it from JamesDellingpole.co.uk forward slash shop, but you're probably fine, just go to my website and look for it. JamesDellingpole.co.uk and I hope it helps keep you informed and gives you the maturity you need to bring around all those people who are still persuaded that, oh, it's a disaster, we must amend our ways and appease the gods, appease mother God, where we're going, it's a scam. Michael the Flam, welcome to the Delling pod. We're going to talk about Atlantis mainly, aren't we? If you say so. Well, I mean, you've written a book about Atlantis, so I'm figuring, I like the fact you're smoking. Is this because you're currently in China and everyone smokes still? Yes, I started in Chicago when I worked as a security guard at a bar, I picked up the habit, but yeah, here in China, I fit right in, right?

3:23Well, you're living in mainland China. Yes, I've lived here for a year as a professor, so I lived in Mexico for a long time before that and was in a band rock band and then a teacher kind of, and before that, I lived in United States. But I wrote the book in Mexico, actually, yeah. Okay, well, we're coming to the book and I'm just curious about your background. I mean, so what do you teach in China? I teach a lot of things. I teach history. I was teaching at a high school. Now I'm teaching at a university, teach English, things like that, US culture. So it's nice. You can teach a lot of different things here and great students, great culture, really interesting, difficult language, but you do your best.

4:23How is your Mandarin? Oh, I've only studied Mandarin probably, I would say, I've only had about two months after teaching full time almost 50 hours a week, so we'll show you the end. Yeah, I can speak just a little bit. And I know the basics and things like that, but, yeah, I'm only fluent in Spanish and a little bit of French and English, of course, but, you know, yeah, I'm thinking, is it the CIA or some similar institution which ranks languages according to the difficulty? Yeah, that's like the monitor is easy language. You know, everybody says that, but I always test my friends that say, oh, Spanish is easy. I test them on the subjunctive tense, for example, and it's really to me a more complex language grammatically than English. You know, if you really speak Spanish correctly, it sounds like almost speaking English from the 1700s. It's a much more eloquent grammar than English, you know, but compared to Mandarin, yes, you should have an argument with ways dead.

5:43I think it was Borges who, you can find it on the internet somewhere where he's talking about the difference in Spanish and English. That's so much better for expressing yourself in it. That's so funny. I actually saw that black and white interview because he spoke both languages. And yeah, he said, you know, I think he was using an expression of like gloom or something. And he said, you know, there's only one way to say this in Spanish and so much more power in like the Germanic roots of English, which, you know, to some degree, that's true. And, you know, in Chinese, I find it almost it's like an extreme where it's almost such a logical language that, you know, until I speak fluent Mandarin to understand how they express poetry, it sounds quite robotic in their structure. But it's interesting. It's been an experience and I've had a great time. I like it here, you know.

6:45So, would you, how would you describe your position in the great sort of divide between normies and the awake? I mean, you written the book about Atlantis. I mean, how far down the rabbit hole are you? Well, pretty far. I mean, yeah, I think I wrote the book as almost like a kind of exorcism or something because it was just kind of driving me crazy. You know, these, these questions and you know, it really was a kind of weird process because I didn't set out with a goal to prove that I knew that Atlantis was historical reality. It turned out to be more the case than than not almost overwhelmingly true that it absolutely was a historical reality. But it was almost like an intellectual exercise for me. And I think a lot of the, you know, the people who have read it, it's, you know, it's so very well for, you know, it's my first self published book.

7:59And, you know, it actually got to number one in the world in prehistory a few years ago and sold probably 7,000 or so copies. So for me, that was a success. I thought maybe one or two people would buy it. But all the people that read it in left reviews said that, you know, it really wasn't just a book about Atlantis. It was a book about what can we really say about any historical episode for which we, you know, lack not just physical evidence of which, you know, there's still some, there's the great Pyramidic Esa, things like this. There's some historical, extant records play till the most obvious, but others that I talk about. But really it was as a historian, that's my training, you know, my history professor by training. And I wanted to just show people like, for example, we know little to nothing. Let's say about Alexander the Great because he has nothing he personally wrote, tommy his closest bodyguard companion, Hattar Roy, his records were lost. His autobiography was lost in one of the fires at the Library of Alexandria.

9:11So we have, you know, Roman sources, opion and things like this from hundreds of years later and we take that as absolute fact. And we know exactly how the battle of Galgamellas went and we know exactly what Busefilus his horse looked like. But we really don't, you know, we fictionalize almost 95% of that man's life. But I don't think anybody would deny he was a real character that was probably born when we think he was born and there's evidence from his travels across the Middle East and India that there was indeed a person there. But we don't know as much as we think and yet we say the same thing about Atlantis, you know, and I would say there's actually it's an equally substantial story. And there's plenty of evidence if you know what to look, but somehow that's crazy and, you know, the other thing is believable because it doesn't interfere with the paradigm.

10:13It's not hard to imagine a Macedonian warlord because we know there are other people like that. It is hard to imagine some of the things that say Edgar Casey and Frederick Oliver, two of my main sources say about high technology. 12,000 years ago, but it's really not when you consider the level of destruction that happened at the end of the younger dry as and had that happened today. It would have reset all of our technological progress possibly for another 10,000 years. So it's a very complicated story to unpack and I tried to kind of like hold people's hands but not dumb it down. You know, that was the most difficult part of writing the book was maintaining an academic rigor, but also making it almost like a mystery like a Michael Crite novel or something.

11:13And a lot of the reader said that was what set the book apart was it was really an exciting read. It wasn't just some dry catalog of, you know, ancient sources and maps and procession of the equinox numbers. I use those things, but I kind of just it's like a choose your own level of involvement. You could skip certain chapters that might be perhaps dull, you know, on the pyramids, dimensions and things like that. But it all ties in. So it was a strange project. I don't know really how it fits into the wider historiography of Atlantis. I mean, I've read a lot of books on Atlantis and I've never read one quite like this. You know, I didn't want to just repeat. Can you move your microphones slightly away from me? I, I, I, yes, yeah, I'm thinking it's the site. So I want to believe in Atlantis because it's like cool, the idea, the idea that there was this extraordinary sea kingdom where which was undone by its, by its greed and folly and and ungodliness, I suppose you might say.

12:31I mean, there's no, I'm a question. I don't know whether you know, I, so I'm curious from apart from any else from a biblical perspective, because there is the question as, was man was, was Adam the first man or was, was Adam? And you get debates about this, because the Bible just relieves the bit before, the early Genesis is the regaps and anything could have happened in those, those gaps. There's presumably no, no biblical reference to Atlantis. I mean, would the, would these Atlantians have predated Adam? Well, that's a great question. In fact, I do mention some Christian elements. I was raised, you know, in the Catholic church myself as a young man. I don't belong to any, I guess, faith, but, you know, Christianity interests me quite a lot. I've read the Bible and, you know, hermanutical texts on the Gospels and things like this.

13:41In fact, there is a weird tie-in, which I don't want to really spoil, but there is a fascinating connection between the biblical records, not just of the flood, but particularly of Atlantis. And, you know, I found a very interesting Edgar Casey reading where he does mention a specific passage of the Bible, which is very obscure and says that actually is referencing one of the three destructions of the Atlantean civilization. But actually, who is that Edgar Casey? Yeah, I should mention that, you know, Edgar Casey was a famous, probably the most famous, most accurate, I would say, undocumented clairvoyant in the 20th century, who spent about 30 years actively giving medical readings mostly to help people with the Bible. To help people with severe illnesses that were seemingly incurable. And he was studied by Harvard psychologists, Harvard professors, Princeton professors, New York Times, everybody tried to debunk him mainly in the 20s and 30s.

14:50I think he died around 1945 at the end of World War II. And from stress from giving these deep coma-like trans sessions where he would channel the Akashic records and a stenographer wrote down, you know, 14,000 plus readings. And included in these readings, sometimes were past life readings, which many times stretched back 30,000 years to the second iteration of Atlantis. Because in Casey's story, people did ask him, he was a Christian, and most of his clients in Virginia Beach were Christian. And they would ask him questions like this, like, how does the Bible tie into Atlantis and stuff? And it's quite fascinating. But it seems like in the case of Atlantis, you know, he puts the kind of origin of that civilization around 50,000 plus BC, which sounds an extraordinarily long time ago.

15:52But if you really look at the numbers of, say, the Yuga cycle or the procession of the equinox, it actually does add up. It's just we are so trained in this, I would say, inaccurate linear timeline, which says, you know, for 300,000 years that anatomically modern humans have existed, they've done nothing. And then they suddenly woke up one day and created agriculture, law, writing, built the pyramids, founded civilizations, but they did nothing for, you know, 295,000 years before that. His story is very different. So there will be people listening to this, I guarantee, I hate the word creationists, because I think it's a kind of it's used as a slur. But I think that there will be people who think that Earth is not much older than what 5,000 years old.

16:58We don't believe the kind of the, we don't believe in dinosaurs, we don't believe in an paleontology, we don't believe in a lot of the kind of claims made by Charles Lyle about geology. There's a lot of, there's a lot of fakery about geological time. I mean, I listen, I don't, I don't know the answer, but alarm bells are going off when I hear somebody confidently stating that, the Earth is as old as the, the normatologists say, you know what I mean? I don't, I don't, I don't trust any of the conventional authorities. So I mean, I'm up to the, I'm up for the idea that a brilliant psychic called Edgar Casey had this gift of being able to see this stuff. But you can see why it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, somebody will see that as quite quite flimsy.

18:02Well, of course, and in fact, the, to me, the real strength of the book is taking people, including myself, who are extremely skeptical of anything that has, let's say, sure psychic information channel because of course I could say I'm a channeler. The difference with Casey is so much of what he said later turned out to be accurate, including, for example, in the 20s, he identified a hidden river system in sub-Saharan Africa that was not known to any geologist on planet Earth, and he identified the correct depth of it, the length, and where it probably used to empty into the Atlantic Ocean. Now that was filed away and 60 years later, I did not know that. Well, 60 years later, space imaging radar confirmed exactly where he said it was. Now they didn't know that Edgar Casey said that.

19:04But that's kind of my job is finding disparate information from all kinds of fields, geology, anthropology, history, mythology, oceanography, and actually showing that more often than not, there is compelling evidence that what Edgar Casey said particularly, and also this other character, Frederick Oliver, who was a similar predated Casey, both of them said things that were not known in their time to a degree of accuracy that's statistically impossible. And what they said about Atlantis is logical. In fact, it's absolutely more logical than dismissing it. Okay, it's hard for most people to believe. Before you get that, I just want to wet my appetite with a few more examples of things that Casey and Oliver said that they couldn't possibly have known, because that will make me feel like you're not just...

20:04Of course, and that's... I appreciate that because I spent majority of the time when I was writing this, anticipating pure hard course skeptics coming at me and trying to really show people that there was a lot more. In the case of Casey, I mean, it's pretty well documented his predictions, for example, on who would be in World War II, how long it would last, and how it would play out, in a time where unless you were intimately connected with those events at a diplomatic level, it would be nearly impossible to identify. That's one example. The other is he was used to find shipwrecks. For example, the divers that needed to dive on the Lucetania that were spending millions of dollars went to him. Henry Ford went to him for a past life reading. Nicholas Tesla went to him. Woodrow Wilson went to him. So these are not insignificant people. This isn't just a reader's digest club. People at the highest levels were using Edgar Casey for all kinds of things. Treasure hunts mineral deposits. Prospectors were using him. And they found mineral deposits exactly at the levels he mentioned. They would find them in the places like Bimini and things like this.

21:25Also medical readings. For example, a famous Harvard psychologist came to see Edgar Casey, a guy named Dr. I think it was Hubert Munsterberg to debunk him because he read the newspaper article. And I think I got cut off on my back. No, I can still see. Okay. So famously, it's a really funny vignette in the book. This Harvard very stern German Harvard professor of psychology, I believe, visited Casey in his home, which was very poor area in Hopkinsville, Kentucky. I think this was in the late 20s. And he said, okay, so what is your deal? You know, you realize you're doing basically medical malpractice, you're giving medical advice. You know, who are you? You must surely just be skimming from medical all men acts and things like this. And Casey said, no, I'm not. I'm channeling the Akashic records. He didn't use that himself, but he said I'm channeling information from a source. And it confuses me just as much as it confuses everybody around me.

22:39And the guy says, so let me get this straight. You're an uneducated Sunday school teacher by day. But when you go to sleep on your hypnagogic trance, you know everything. And Casey gave him this famous kind of look he used to give a lot of people, which kind of unnerved them. And he said, that's right. And he says, if you don't believe me, you can watch. And a week later, that doctor went back to Harvard and said, indeed, I witnessed something that we cannot explain. And then a person, after that, who was a hard core materialist, who later became a famous psychiatrist named Dr. Harmon Bro. When he was in his early 20s, he was at the University of Chicago and his wife was into Edgar Casey. So she said, hey, there's an internship opportunity. Would you like to go be his secretary and file all his readings?

23:41And his this guy said, this is a bunch of bullshit, you know, my wife's into new age crap. You know, before the term existed. So I'll go, sure, I need the money. And he wrote this incredible biography called a seer out of season where he shows his process where he went in it, not just as a skeptic, but again to discredit him. And he left saying, this is statistically impossible. For example, he said, I know a quick word from our sponsor. Seenah, crisp. I used to eat loads and loads of crisps in my normal days. And then of course I discovered that they're all cooked in toxic seed oils. And so I pretty much gave up. The people behind Seenah have come up with a brilliant idea of cooking crisps not in seed oils, but in coconut oil. So they're actually not harmful to you. And they also taste. What was that good idea to eat my crisp in the middle of the advert? I'm not sure. Anyway, I just want to make something absolutely clear.

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25:48Harmon Bro watched Edgar Casey one time. There was a guy who needed a special medical device for a Qatar in his eye, cataract, I believe. And it was a machine that only existed in four places in the United States. It was an experimental machine in the 1940s. This was like 1944. And nobody that had the machine knew the location of the other machines. You know, this is pre-internet, pre-tell division. And Casey in his trance said, you can find this device at these four hospitals in the United States. And Harmon Bro was listening to this reading. And he said, this guy's just making this up. He called each of those places. And each of them said, yes, indeed, we just did get this device. Our own staff doesn't know we even have it. We don't know where the other ones are. And how did you find this?

26:49And this went on and on and on. And it became evident to me that not all channelers are created equally. He happens to have 14,000 readings in a special library, which I've read. It took me that long to read them. Probably by the book took seven years. That document each of his readings, along with testimonials, letters from people that diagnose spinal problems, brain aneurysms, bone spurs, exactly where he said, without even being present when they were asked. And I think at this point now, you know, since the book came out in the last four years, so much more, you know, involving, let's say, remote viewers from the government, people like Lin Bu Cannon and people like that have now come forward into the mainstream and demonstrated that, indeed,

27:50remote viewing, regardless of the method, some is waking, some is semi waking, cases was hypnagogic, is absolutely real. It's just extremely rare to find somebody that's accurate and reliable. But he was one of the few sources that I found like Frederick Oliver that was. So I always tell people, yeah, what's that? You sold Casey to me. Tell me about all of them. Frederick Oliver. Yeah, Frederick Oliver is one of the even stranger cases who he was a teenager living in, I believe it was Eureka, California. During the ending, yeah, during the near Mount Chasta at the end of the wild west, really, 1886. And he was a, you know, just a kid who worked with a mining family. And one day, according to his prologue, to his famous book, A Dweller on Two Planets,

28:51he says he started receiving kind of voices in his head that told him, look, you got to tell this story. You got to go home and write these notes down. And this process really unnerved him. He didn't like it. He kind of worried his parents. But in any case, he went to his cabin and he wrote what turned into this. One of the most bizarre books I've ever read in my life read it probably ten times. This magnum opus called the Dweller on Two Planets, which according to him is a channeled message from this voice of the life of a person who lived in 11,160 BC during the final destruction of Atlantis. And in that story, which was in 1886, he started writing it. He finished it in 18, maybe 90, but he died as a young man with it unpublished.

29:56And so his mother kept it unpublished until I believe 1914 around there and it really didn't get popular until the 20s. So he didn't gain anything from this. He didn't make any money. The family didn't really make any money. The estate didn't make any money. But what that book says, not only correlates with what Casey said and Casey had never read the book. But it also identifies things that only recently a hundred plus years later we've discovered. Like for example, he says in 1886, many species from the Amazon basin were not native. They were transplanted there from the island continent of Atlantis. And he specifically mentions species of plants. And again, just kind of fortuitously, I discovered while I was writing the book an article came out that said, we have a problem because there are species in the Amazon that don't belong there. This is by a team of international bodeness. And they said it appears that people have been farming and transplanting plants in the Amazon stretching back to the ice age, which presents a major problem for our timeline.

31:12And on and on, I found these absolutely impossible correlations that kind of like piece by piece by piece like the mosaic started to become kind of clear. And it was a kind of unnerving experience for myself. Wow. Now you wetted my appetite. So tell me about Atlantis. Well, I think, you know, Casey Oliver even play toe to some degree, I should start with that because you know, play toe was writing, you know, around the 5th century, 4th century, I should say BC, I think 360 BC, his critis and Tameas dialogues came out. So, you know, about 2400 years ago, he wrote these dialogues. And most people think, well, that's just a bunch of bullshit. That's the only source in history that ever says Atlantis, it was an allegory. And how can you believe play toe? Well, I should say that Plato explicitly says this is not an allegory for those who have not read the goddamn dialogues, which is most people.

32:25It's not a allegory. He specifically says it's not an allegory. It's not written even close to allegorically. And the critical part about Plato's dialogues is he identifies the chain of custody of the story. And he says, this story came from my distant relative, Solon, who lived around the 7th century BC, and he got the story from the temple priests at Saís in Egypt, which is a critical part because as Casey Oliver so many other sources would argue in myself included. What we think is Dynastic Egypt. Really, Dynastic Egypt, if you look at the timeline I project, Dynastic Egypt is a kind of holdover, final kind of declining iteration of the true Egyptian high technology level, which was a direct transplant from Atlantis.

33:33Before the younger dry as cataclysm wiped out the remaining continental landmass that Plato, Casey, and Oliver describe. And in Casey's timeline, the reason there's evidence of Atlantis in say the Caribbean, Mexico, that tail tewakon, for example. And other parts of North America as well as in places like the Mediterranean is because according to Casey, the original landmass was continental, was basically where the mid-Atlantic ridges today. After the first destruction, it was reduced to five large subcontinental islands. He puts that date at 22,000 BC. And then finally, during the third phase, it was reduced to three islands. And that's the phase that Plato only had access to because he couldn't access the clairvoyant records, or if he did, we don't know about it.

34:41But the records that existed that the Egyptians kept, which I would argue probably still existed up until the major destruction of the Library of Alexandria. Casey said that library actually, the records in it originally go back to that time, 10,000 BC. So whenever you have to go to the Vatican and break into the labyrinth to find out what they stole before they burned it in the second destruction. That would be cool, wouldn't it? Yeah. But the first was a legitimate accident. Julius Caesar set the docks on fire trying to save his girlfriend Cleopatra from her crazy brother. So the first destruction was unintentional. God knows what was lost. The second was the one that's very controversial. And that's when the, I think it was the Adosius ordered the utter, you know, exturpation of all pagan so-called ideology from the Mediterranean.

35:44And what was that? Oh, put me on the spot here, James. I believe fourth century AD, I think. Okay. Yeah. So, so, and by your account, or your theory anyway, a lot of the key documents were, were sneaked out before they burned it and are now in the Vatican library. I mean, if any record on a level of Plato, which we have, you know, through the Ray Conquista and things like that in the 15th century, when the dialogues became more kind of known outside of theological circles, if there's any extant physical document that I haven't described in the book, there are key kind of illusions to Atlantis in the Ramayana, the Mahabharata, in other Indian Vedic texts. In other Native American lore, there are mentions of a civilization to the east and things like this and Cherokee legend and Hopi legend, even they mentioned to some degree.

36:50But if there's anything explicit, like Plato's description of the circular city and the depth of the canals, it certainly exists in the Vatican library, or was destroyed in one of the three destructions of the library of Alexandria, which Casey, again, said, is the oldest library in the world and actually goes back to 10,000 BC, the records that were contained in the later building that, tommy, you know, standardized into the classic library of Alexandria, Alexander's friend there, Cleopatra's great, great, great, great, grandpa. But to me, you got to come at this from every side, you know, you can't just rely, so many people just rely on texts. And as I say to people, if you just rely on primary sources for the life of Alexander the great, there is no story.

37:55There's literally zero, there's nothing on earth that was written. So what do we rely on? We rely on archaeology or genealogy or common sense or other cultures, descriptions of battles. How do they line up? What did the Persians say about it? Does it line up with what, you know, the Greeks said, you have to use deductive and inductive methods. And it bothered me that so many people were just relying on Plato's dialogues and saying, the entire story rests on a elaborate platonic myth, you know, I opened the book with that quote from a Greeks classics professor Alan Cameron. And it's like, no, actually it doesn't. The entire story is global. There's hundreds of sources the world over. It's just that the name often is different. Sometimes it's Atlantis, sometimes it's Atala, sometimes it's Atalia, sometimes it's other things.

38:55But if you really look at what all these different cultures are saying, just like you mentioned the, you know, the Bible with the flood myth, they all are pointing to a anti-deluvian high civilization that was destroyed, that also existed with other cultures and their versions of whatever technology was around in other parts of the world. That basically the world we think we built today, which we consider the apex of human innovation. Really, if you look at what many ancient sources are saying and then really look into what the clairvoyant sources are saying. This world already existed thousands of years ago. In fact, and it actually reached a much higher level than even we are at today according to Frederick Oliver and wasn't identical was slightly different. So I just invite people to be open minded. And as Edgar Casey's son Hugh Lynn Casey famously said he said, look, let's say the same series of asteroids which likely hit the earth around 9700 BC roughly.

40:13Let's say those same cataclysmic events happened today and then somebody in the year. 14,000 AD. Stumbles upon a sunken landmass and drills a hole two inches into the sea floor. What are they going to find? Are they going to find the Dellingpole podcast studio? Yes, yes, they are. It's going to be the one remnant of our civilization and they'll be blessed to have discovered that particular part of that. It's the most important thing for the future. It's our only hope in fact. So thank you for coming on this podcast and being part of the podcast that in 14,000 years. They'll find out everything. Well, but you know, I think it's funny because numbers are very tricky, even for me. Like I think it's.

41:13It's just a product of we we deal in such a short lifespan that it's really hard, even for me to really imagine 13,000 years ago. It's really not a common unit of measure and I think that's a problem most people have is like how could all this technology all this city civilizations how could it literally be gone with the exception of say, I think it's easier to imagine it going forward. So it's like imagine how long it was, you know, I don't know how old you were, but imagine from the time you were born to now all the things that have happened in the world. And then multiply that. You know, by whatever co factor to get to 14,000 AD.

42:13And I think that's why it's so difficult for people to wrap their mind around this because in their mind subconsciously they're still thinking, well, this probably happened like couple hundred years ago, right. And I always say no, this is a story that goes back 13,000 plus years. And it's like, no, no, that's too far. That's too far. Yeah. I'm with you. I'm with you. I'm you're sending it to me that I was thinking while you were mentioning the people who've written about Atlantis. And of course, Francis Bacon referred to a new Atlantis, didn't he? Yeah. He was well connected with the with the demonic spirits and with knowledge. I mean, he knew everything. So he's if he came for Atlantis. Well, and you know, I'm glad you mentioned Francis Bacon James because you know, my training in graduate school was as like they call it like an intellectual historian, somebody who traces the history of an idea.

43:20You know, I had the real pleasure of working with a really preeminent scholar, you know, shout out, Dr. Darren McMahon now at Dartmouth, my mentor. And you know, he taught me how to trace an idea like happiness or communism back to a source that you would never think you think, oh, it starts with Karl Marx. No, it doesn't. You know, there was some French guy before that or, you know, going back. So I used that same approach with the story of Atlantis. You know, and so I go back to so long Plato. But then the book actually starts kind of in a non clairvoyant way. I don't even think you get to Casey and Oliver until the middle of the book where I'm showing you that this is not an isolated, quack story. Like the most preeminent scholars that we study in history, like Michelle de Montaigne, Francis Bacon, Isaac, Dula Pereira, all these people took Atlantis.

44:22And so, I think that's really the way that Atlantis extremely seriously as if it was a historical fact. And they absolutely did. Yeah. Going forward to your mic because you, because like me, you're excited about what this thing, but try and try and move it back away from you. You're too close to it. Yeah. Yeah. It's going on to the red too much. And it's upsetting me. I don't want to redline it. No. But that's, that's a fact. And I did. What's, what's really crazy is just, you know, you'd never know this unless you spent seven years doing this kind of research. And what it turns out is this story was taken seriously by even the most preeminent oceanographers. For example, in the 19th century, when the mid-Atlantic Ridge was discovered by a very prominent group of London-based oceanographers on survey ships.

45:31When they got back and announced their discovery, they wrote an article in Scientific American magazine. I think it was in 1877, 1880. Do you know what they called it? Glimpses of Atlantis. And what they said in this very obscure article that a friend at my library had to get for me with J-Store or something like that, I lost my subscription after grad school. They say that, you know, that myth quote unquote that we all thought Plato was making up. Well, we seem to have found evidence directly in front of the Straits of Gibraltar as the ancient sources say of this sunken landmass. And now it seems that what was once a perhaps story that we all couldn't prove has now taken on the realm of fact. And these were not new age people. These were classically trained oceanographers. And as time goes on, you realize that really up until, I would say the last 30 years,

46:44this story was not ridiculed the way it is today. That for the last 2,400 years that the story has existed in the Western consciousness, it was actually debated very seriously. It was not ridiculed. It was not considered goofball material. So do you think there are any artifacts anywhere in any museum or any private under in the Vatican library or whatever, which come from Atlantis? Yeah, I mean, as far as artifacts, I mean, beyond the great pyramid of Giza, perhaps the pyramids of Teotihuacan or the pyramids in Shian China, which people don't like to talk about. Besides megalithic architectural remains artifacts, there was one that I mentioned that's in a museum collection in Spain. There's a carved bone with, I believe the word, a thala on it.

47:51But in terms of what most people would be looking for, that appears to be still locked away in the famed hall of records under the sphinx, which, you know, many people believe was recently confirmed by that Italian research team with ground penetrating radar. But what do you think it's still there, this hall of records? Oh, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. Well, that would be so of the mystery, wouldn't it? I mean, if we could just go into, do you think we're going to go into the hall of records? Yeah, well, I mean, I won't spoil that part of the book. According to Casey, it's not so easy to get in there. You know, they anticipated this timeline. Of course, the people that built these structures basically had access to the same clairvoyance as Casey plus high technology and could in many respects anticipate future events far, far in the future. So they put protective measures in place, according to Casey to prevent that discovery until the earth had gone through a kind of period of purification, which I would argue we're going through.

49:01In the next 20 to 30 years, if you follow the work of like Babu Dev Misra, a colleague of mine who studies the yoga cycle, we're going through the Echperosis purification by fire cleansing. You take that as spiritual or physical. Yeah, I mean, you take that however you want, but it would seem and Casey said the same thing. You know, Casey said like around 36 in many people thought that was 1936, but he didn't say 1936. Major events in the earth would bring back these ancient memories of our true heritage. But I think absolutely in my lifetime, the irrefutable truth of this story will emerge and vindicate what a lot of people have thought. You know, was just myth. Just to be clear, the pyramids and the Sphinx presumably you reckon they're all Atlantean era, the much older than we think them.

50:07Yeah, almost without a doubt. I mean, the idea that this is a tomb built by Kufu is such a spurious argument. And, you know, I don't have to spend much time on that. I mean, many, many people of the highest, you know, caliber. Mind have written countless articles in books showing how Kufu and traditional methods could not have built these structures. I have some of those sources in a chapter specifically on the pyramids, which I'm very proud of. But, you know, for example, with the Sphinx, you know, Casey said that is one of the oldest structures, you know, on earth at the moment, possibly the oldest monument and the work of a colleague of mine, a sculptor, rob Nealand, who went there with some colleagues, one of whom can read Egyptian hieroglyphics. You know, he proposed a very interesting theory, which I put in the book, which suggests that, you know, the original head was indeed a lion. That's why it's disproportionately small. And it would make sense because at 10,500 BC, the earth was in the constellation of Leo, the lion.

51:21And Casey himself said that the lion is the guardian of the hall of records. And there's an Egyptian god called Mehit, which is a lion, which is the king's royal librarian. So it all kind of does seem like, yes, indeed, there is a hidden hall of records underneath the Sphinx that I'm sure the world's governments are aware of, but perhaps they can't even access it. Well, that would be exciting. Okay, so I want to know what the story, what, what, what technology do they have, what was the, what was the, what was the system, did they look like us, were they, were they descendants of the fallen angels? What? Those are great questions. I mean, that those are very detailed questions, but, you know, Casey said that the original, you know, he puts the data at 50,000 BC. For the original iteration of the continent of Atlantis in the mid Atlantic. And he says that the people that later became the Iroquois tribe, may of Americans, were the original root race of that civilization.

52:31And that they emerged around the same time as all the races that exist today, emerged. But what you find is that, you know, much like America and the world is today, it was a multicultural civilization that had interesting, that had international reach. They were same mixtures of people as there are today. But the root race, the original Atlanteans, Casey said were Native Americans. And then different races kind of, you know, conquered portions of the island and interbred with the people and then took over certain islands. And really by the end, let's say around 10,000 BC, the final decline in Casey and all of her story. There seems to be this kind of technocratic, almost Nazi group that Casey calls the sons of Belial and Edgar and Frederick Oliver just says, kind of like he doesn't have the language for tech bros because he's writing in 1886. But it is kind of this like sinister tech obsessed.

53:43He'd anistic group of people who in Oliver's account basically merge with technology and become he calls it as electricity and just kind of leave the culture to their own devices. They kind of check out and the culture devolves. And then eventually is destroyed in the cataclysm in Casey's account. He talks about the first and second destructions explicitly as a misapplication of technology combined with pole shifts and geographic and climatic events that were natural as precipitating the first and second destructions. And he kind of doesn't really talk about the third destruction beyond it was a gradual and then sudden geological event caused by probably asteroids themselves.

54:47But in the second destruction, that's the most interesting and that, according to Casey, was around you know, 22,000. Some people say 28. It depends on which reading you pick. It's very vague. But the reason was not vague. And he puts that at a very high level. And over tuning of this enormous crystal in a tower that was used to basically generate not just energy but wireless signals almost like a Tesla's warden cliff tower device that also guided their flying and submersible craft. And one of the groups harness this technology. And it became a weapon. There are various accounts, but it is important to note that as I say in my forget which chapter chapter 10 I go into that crystal. And I just take the Casey reading because he describes the dimensions. He describes the type of as bestos lining that was in the tower because the crystal got very hot.

56:03And I found this very obscure article by a NASA physicist who studied that reading in the 70s and determined that it actually was a viable technology. And I won't spoil that, but it's fascinating what this device was according to this NASA physicist. But in the end, I always say, look, I don't tell anybody what to think. I don't really care what anybody thinks. I go to sleep at night just like anybody else, whether it exactly happened that way or not. But there's so much compelling evidence, James, to suggest certainly this vacuum that we believe existed until the agricultural revolution is not a tenable or even realistic concept. I don't think in 2026. I think there's too much evidence today to really believe that we are at the apex of 300,000. And that number keeps going back and back and back and back every decade.

57:15At the time of Casey's writing, people didn't even know that the anthropological record went back that far. They still thought that people, you know, modern humans probably only went back 75,000 years, you know. And every decade, they discover some new strange thing that pushes it back to 350 or 400. And so I always tell people like you, you know, I'm everything is tentative in all fields of science. Real science is purely tentative, you know. And anybody that tells you anything, absolutely, including me, you should be very suspicious of. Yeah, sure. But now you've set the scene. I mean, it's no point, no points of the backtracking and saying, well, you know, what do I know up to you, make up your own mind. I want to know what the deal is. What, what was the deal in Atlantis? Who was what was the, what was the system of rule? What, what was there? What was their moral code? I mean, in so far as you've been able to infer any of this stuff, which maybe you haven't.

58:19Well, I have, I mean, but you also have to say like, what was the moral code in America? You know, how old is America? 250 years old. How many times has the governmental system and moral code changed in 250 years? When people ask me that question, I say, well, pick a time from 50,000 BC to 10,000 BC, you know, and you can get kind of windows of iterations from the Casey and Oliver readings. In the Oliver readings, it's actually one of the weirdest, unnecessarily detailed accounts of daily life in Atlantis. The most detailed in the world, actually, is that book a dweller on two planets where he describes the school system, the inheritance tax in Atlantis, the roads, the monorail system, how much it costs to ride the monorail. The technology of the submersible craft. What's that? What's the name of the currency? Does he name that? No, he doesn't, he doesn't ever say, he says it's a coin that you put in the monorail in the capital city of, he calls it Kaiful. He has a name for the city.

59:25And the circular city, the Casey and Plato both describe, he calls Kaiful. He calls the island Poseid, which makes sense because Casey said the same thing. And Plato said the same thing. He says Atlantis was a civilization, not a city. And it had a circular capital city with the statue of Poseidon in the center. So I think they're all talking about the same thing. But Frederick Oliver describes a very beautiful, you know, capital city with, you know, the classic mode system and but he also adds these flying craft, you know, he calls them veil or valixie, which is a Sanskrit word, which again, how does a 17 year old kid in Eureka, California in the Wild West speaks Sanskrit. And you know, he names a lot of the people's past life names, the leader of Atlantis in 11,160 calls Rai Gwalan,

1:00:28which is interesting because Rai is very close to Ray in Spanish for King. And what's really interesting is I took all the past life names that Casey, for example, and Oliver gave to their clients. Oliver didn't channel for people. He just said these are the characters names. Casey did. He said James, your name in Atlantis was Ox Tell, for example, that was one character. Yeah. And he said, yeah. And so I, I collated like thousands of Atlantean names in alphabetical order from all the Casey readings. And to my great shock, you know, Casey said before the final destruction, the people that knew it was coming went to three places. They went to the Basque country near Andora on the border of Spain and France and the Pyrenees. They went to the Yucatan Peninsula in Mexico.

1:01:31And they went to the Giza Plateau to prepare for the coming cataclysm and to preserve the knowledge. Well, to my great surprise, you know, the Basque language, which has no Indo-European roots, actually, most of the names are nearly identical to the past life Basque names that Casey and Oliver who did not have a Basque dictionary. I mentioned, yeah. We're saying, you know, and so it all does actually add, and you know, in the Basque country, you know, the Center for Basque Studies, I did some research through their online, you know, research portal. And the people from the Basque country who don't speak any dialect of Spanish or Catalan or Galician or any of the other things that people speak around there, they all say, you know, we don't know where we come from, but our ancestors said we come from this place called Atlantis. So it's just the Basques, the Egyptians and the people in Mexico.

1:02:38Well, the Aztecs themselves, I mean, you know, the Aztec legend is we come from a place called Ausdlan. Oh, I see. Okay. So if the Aztecs are descended from, the Aztecs weren't very, I mean, they cut people's beatings hearts out and... Yes. ...sacrifice. So that sounds like maybe that was inheritance from the... It was. And in fact, as funny you say that because you're kind of like, you're reminding me of like the connections I made when I was just encountering all this data and trying to figure out, how do I put all this together. And it's funny because right before the final destruction, Casey and Oliver both say, and Plato himself says this in the final lines of the dialogue where he taught, they all talk about this group of people that had this kind of like breakaway culture.

1:03:43You know, because they left the common people to their own devices, the civilization, it did devolve. It lost access to the high technology. It lost access to the infrastructure. So they did go back to almost like a Bronze Age civilization. It appears in the final couple hundred years where human sacrifice was practiced in barbarism. And so perhaps many of those people who didn't have access to the high technology that some of the groups of Atlanteans had, did indeed sail physically on tri-ream type vessels from these mid-Atlantic islands. They didn't have to cross the whole ocean like Columbus. And actually that that was the critical kind of aha moment was how could they have high technology and corroborate everything that Plato said. But why doesn't Plato talk about the high technology? And then Frederick Oliver said it's because it got so high and then it actually devolved right before.

1:04:46And those people became the kind of human progenitors or preservers, I should say, of whatever was left. And whatever happened to the people who became his electricity, guess is as good as mine. Maybe there's still in the goddamn AI somewhere. But what I found is that more often than not, it's like right in your face. You know, Casey didn't know what the Geese of Plato looked like. And Casey had never been to Teotie, Wakon and seen it from an overhead view. But if you look at the Geese of Plato and you look at Teotie, Wakon, it's almost identical in their layout of the pyramid, the pyramid of the Sun, the pyramid of the Moon, etc. Same megalithic architecture, different style. Okay, Egypt is where the story of Atlantis got to Plato. Then you have Aztecs who say we come from Oztlan. Then you have the vast people who say we come from Atlent.

1:05:47So these are not random. He didn't say they went to Germany and Norway and Finland where there is no evidence of any of this to my knowledge. He said three very specific places where indeed there is very strange anomalous connections. So I always tell people find me a case where Edgar Casey or anybody that I cite says something that doesn't have quite substantial proof. And I'll listen. But I almost got frustrated because I was almost trying to convince myself this can't be real. And the harder I tried, the more I realized this is a much deeper story than I realized. And it's going to take me seven years to get to the bottom of this one. Okay. So basically we got the descendants of the shit of the shit Atlantians, the kind of the human sacrificing ignorant technologically illiterate ones.

1:06:55And all the all the tech bros they vaporized or turned into electricity. So we don't we don't. Well, the tech bros weren't exactly good. But I think you know, I think you probably got a mixture of both. You know, Casey says the groups that were part of this children of the law of one, which again has taken on a new age five. But Casey to my knowledge was the first first person to say that word. Frederick Oliver calls him something different. He calls him the sons of the solitude, kind of like the Jedi in Star Wars, which I argue in the book is a subconscious reiteration in fiction of the actual story of Atlantis. In many ways, there's a lot of connections between Star Wars and Casey and Oliver's descriptions of Atlantis with the Jedi and the Sith. He calls him the sons of the law of one children of the law of one or the sons of the solitude and the sons of Belly all.

1:08:00And Belly all is described in in the Bible as well, you know, ball. Well, the sons of, exactly, well, the sons of Bidiel did say that this is where you've got the biblical connection. I get that. I mean, I would be. I'm not, I'm not sort of, it will dispose towards your, your, your theories, even, even though I'm a sort of Bible believer, because I think that there is. Because as I said, there's missing gaps in, there's missing areas of, of, there's gaps in Genesis where, you know, between God's creation of, of the world and, man appearing. Where do they, where do they, where do they, when was the rebel against rebel rebellion in heaven, when were the fallen angels and so on? Do you not think it's possible that these Atlantians were, at least the, the tech-broend of them were, were fallen angels? Well, I mean, the fallen angel aspect, Casey describes specifically that passage of the mixing, you know, of the sons, you know, with the daughters of man and things like this, the fallen angels.

1:09:09And it's very difficult because the people asking him these questions were just kind of like, they were asking about their own lives. It's unfortunate that there weren't people like you there saying, it could you, like the only way we know that Casey gave a specific date, for example, for like the final destruction or the second destruction is because somebody said to him, given exact precise date, and he did. In that case, it's very difficult to identify like at what point biblical narratives line up with Casey, like all of her says Noah's flood was the second destruction of Atlantis, which he puts around the same time as Casey, like 22,000 BC. People think that Noah's flood was the younger dry as flood, who am I to say, I don't know. The mixing of angelic, demonic entities, spirit beings with the preexisting, you know, hominid population, Casey puts that around 50,000 BC.

1:10:17So I don't know, I just kind of, I look at all of this though as you're seeing recurring motifs, the world over, not just up the flood, but of a time where there's a distant vague memory of the world being very advanced, you know, like, and you'd see it in places that you wouldn't expect, like in the, I forget which tribe there's a tribe I cite in the book in Oklahoma, where in the 20s a guy live with them and said, you know, tell us your, your ancestral story, and they describe, we once lived in these islands with huge buildings made of glass and crystal, and they were destroyed in a great war, where the people flew in flying. And then it's like, you know, you know, you see that motifs repeated in obviously Vedic texts where they're talking about Vimanas and the wars between the, you know, the gods and things like this.

1:11:38And so, what kind of references to high technology, if you really read the Greek myths in a different non-mythical way, you know, with, it doesn't always seem the way we're taught. So, what you kind of come to the conclusion, at least what I did, is there is a absolute overwhelming global narrative of a time where we lived at this level or much higher, but that it's so far removed, that it has only persisted in these kind of allegories and myths, because we've only rediscovered this technology in the last, let's say, 150 years. So, apart from airships, which presumably moved faster, I mean, maybe they had sort of anti-gravity type UFO type systems. What else do they want to rail? Yeah, they have monorails. So, in KC and Oliver's accounts, they had, you know, cigars, I mean, Oliver's very specific.

1:12:44And remember, he's writing this in 1886 before the first plane ever took flight. And he says, you know, he describes a voyage, a diplomatic mission from Kaifull, capital of Poseid in the Empire of Atlantis, a diplomatic mission to what's now modern day, let's say Pakistan, India, region. And he describes the ship. He says it's a long, you know, a couple hundred meter long circle, excuse me, cigar shaped aluminum craft that is entrained to be guided by our wireless crystal technology that projects a flight path. And we don't have to fly it, we just link up to it and it puts us on a flight plan. And we can go underwater, we can go in the stratosphere. And he calls it a veil, V-A-I-L-X. And, you know, veilixi is plural, veil, but that word also comes up in, you know, other ancient texts of Vimanas and things like this.

1:13:44So, it does appear that, as many people have said, you know, perhaps some of these modern sightings by the military and other people of these similar transmedial crafts are, perhaps a breakaway civilization from that time, maybe loosely continuous, continuous, or this technology has always been around. And, you know, there is an extraterrestrial component to this. KC doesn't really go into too much detail, but, you know, KC was talking about extraterrestrials 20 years before Kenneth Arnold talked about flying saucers. He called them the people from other worlds. He called them the visitors. He called them the others. Kind of warning humanity and kind of guiding them during cataclysmic events. And other people have mentioned as much that, that that was an aspect.

1:14:49But again, it's so complicated because you can't just say Atlantis was aliens. But it's just like today, do aliens interact with humanity today? I think the evidence is pretty clear they do. But there's not an alien. Right. You've lost me then, Michael, because I don't believe an aliens are out of space. I don't believe space is real. That's interesting. And you know what's funny? I absolutely, I have no problem with that. I think a lot of people have a knee jerk reaction when people say, I don't believe in space or I don't believe aliens coming from space. I just say, look, there seems to be a non human entity or entities that have been documented for a long time, that interact with us, where they come from, where are they? We remains to be seen. What about the ice wall? Maybe that'd be on the ice wall in the Antarctic.

1:15:50You know, there's been a lot of Antarctica Atlantis research done. I touch on that a little bit, but you know, it turns out to me that in the case of locating it, you know, I always say, you know, go to my website, microleflum.com and look at the map of the Atlantic Ocean drained and look at the top of the mid Atlantic ridge. And that landmass is exactly where Plato said the final, extant islands of Atlantis were. But because it was such a powerful community empire, it left fingerprints the world over. And when people say, well, Atlantis is in Antarctica, Atlantis is in Peru, Atlantis is in Mexico. It's like, yes, colonies of Atlantis, just like colonies of England, leave traces the world over.

1:16:57But the principle landmass, I believe personally, of the third iteration is where the Azores Islands are today. And I've always thought that. Okay. But have you been to the Azores? No, not yet. I bet there's not much there. Well, there is a mountain. There is a mountain that Frederick Oliver describes. And again, he'd never been to the Azores and he didn't have Google to find this. But that mountain that he describes as part of a scene from 11,160 BC. But when I did like a map of the real mountain that's still there today, lines up exactly with what he said it was, how tall it was, things like this. So are there megalithic structures on the Azores like the pyramids?

1:17:57No. But there wasn't underwater pyramid found off the coast of the Azores. And I spoke to the guy who found it with the Portuguese translator. And he was famous on international Portuguese television. He found a absolute huge pyramid at about 250 feet under water while fishing. He saw it on his depthfinder. There's a picture of his depthfinder with a pyramid on the depthfinder that's real. And you know, I thought how big is it the size of the great pyramidal? Believe it was slightly bigger. Really? Yes. When was this? I think this was 2010, 2009. You've got to go, Michael. You've got to go and check out that mountain. Although, I mean, you on your own. I mean, you're not going to be able to excavate the mountain. You're not going to find a hidden tunnel that leads into the kind of the library of truth.

1:19:00Well, you know, the library, I believe, has been identified. You know, Casey said there are three locations in the world that he was living in, in the 20s and 30s. He said there's three copies of the records, you know, one in Mexico, one in Egypt, and one underwater off the Azores. But to me, you know, it's not something you really, you know, I think too much has been... There are already great people that do archaeology and, you know, go to places and they want to find a smoking gun. They want to find a ruin. They want to find a thing that says made in Atlantis. My, I guess, specialty or what I do, maybe differently, is, you know, I cite a bunch of archaeologists. I mean, I'm absolutely, you know, it'd be fun to do that. But it's like too many people couldn't put that camp with channeling, with history, with archaeology, with geology, anthropology.

1:20:11All these different groups had their own kind of compartmentalized versions. And what I was trying to do with the book is show, look, you're all talking about the same thing. You're just coming at it from different paradigms, so to speak. I know this is a bit of a leap, but I remember that I've got to ask you about this. Did they eat a lot of fish in Atlantis? I mean, was it a fishy themed place or was it, or was it like a kind of one of our continents where, there was a coast, but it's all about the land, really. Yeah, I mean, again, you know, even the island of Poseid, according to Oliver's kind of map that he drew of it is, it's still large. You know, it's still about half the size of Spain. So it's not just a little tiny island like the Hawaiian island. No, but that's still an island. It was like, Creech, maybe. No, much, I was a bigger than Creech.

1:21:11It was a quite significant, yeah, significantly. Oh, okay. Yeah, significant. Right. Yeah, there's really no island like that left. I mean, it's not like Australia, but I would say probably, I mean, when I look at the map of the Mid-Atlantic Ridge that I believe is the kind of, there's like a triangular shaped landmass that Oliver, by the way, drew before anybody knew what the bottom of the goddamn ocean looked like, he drew a picture of what the Mid-Atlantic Ridge looked like, which is confirmed by satellite imagery a hundred years later. I find that a smoking gun, by the way. But, yeah, I mean, he does talk about their habits, you know, he says, you know, the women wore turbans, purple turbans. He says, um, purple. Yeah. Yeah, the later color of royalty and in Rome and things like this. Yeah, I think, you know, it's, um, it's like sex lives. Do we know about the sex lives?

1:22:11Well, Casey talks a lot about that. Casey talks actually quite a length about the depravity of the Suns of Belial. You know, reads kind of like an Epstein client list in the end there. Really? What are we talking about the, the sort of the upper classes or the, or everybody? Was it like the last days of the suns? Yeah, the Suns of Belial, who would be essentially like Epstein would be like a reincarnation of those. People in many ways. Um, but with much, much more advanced technology today. I mean, even beyond our current ability to clone, you know, talking about creating human beings for sex slavery out of cloning. Which again, there's evidence Epstein was doing things like that with his friends in the, uh, the ranch out there in New Mexico. But, Casey has these very bizarre readings. You know, I go into one in the book and I have to laugh where a guy was taken to Casey actually on June 6, 1944 on the Operation Overlord D-Day.

1:23:16Casey gave a reading while D-Day was going on to this guy. And the guy said, you know, I want to know why I have problems with women today. And Casey takes him back through his past lives and eventually gets to, you know, 14,000 BC and says, you know, you were one of these high technology, almost kind of wizards in a sense of, of ability to manipulate energy. And you would create a sex harem of women with every possible combination for your own pleasure, you know, from all sizes and all shapes and trap their souls in there. And, um, you know, he doesn't go into more detail like that. And, uh, Casey was a Christian and he kind of self censored his, his things, but he did mention this, this very perverse kind of class of people who were kind of ultimate hedonists and were opposed by this other group who were not all good.

1:24:20They were just kind of like more for stability and peace, but they, they had people from both sides that crossed over, you know, many people from the Sunsabellia all crossed over. Many other people went kind of to the dark side, you know, so just like our world, really basically. Yeah, not much. So we were going to, we've got about 10 or so minutes left. Sure. Or we can have a, have we missed anything key about Atlantis before we move on to what happened to Hitler? No, no, I've spoiled the book James. I know he's going to buy the damn book. How dare you know, we were to you. And anyway, you know, I think people are the read books or they don't, it's not. That's right. The people who don't get, don't get on up on it. The things that you and I do, it's really, it's getting the word out there by one way or another. You're doing, you're doing good by doing this podcast and and you enjoyed writing the book. I do. We all want to be read.

1:25:25No, you know, you know, you know what's funny is, I'm not exaggerating when I say I literally wrote the book to get these ideas out of my head, because it was just driving me crazy. And I only very reluctantly at the end edited it, made a cover and published it just because all my friends kept bugging me so much. But I never intended this to be for commercial release until the very end. And then I went back and said, okay, nobody's going to read 400 pages of your crazy notes. You've got to add transitions, you've got to add a narrative, you've got to add all kinds of things that make the book, you know, thrilling and engaging without sacrificing the kind of weirdness of it. But we've only scratched the surface, you know, we basically outlined maybe five of the 12 chapters in the book, but there's so much more. And like I say, it's kind of, it's like choose your own adventure, you know, you don't have to read every chapter to basically understand that, yeah, there's more to the story than we've all been told in our generation.

1:26:37Tell me about Hitler. Well, out of Hitler was a not the people thing. Lots of people think that he died in a bunker in Berlin, having committed suicide with his mistress. What's the evidence to the contrary? Well, you know, it's funny because I always say, you know, it's just like Atlantis. Every story we believe has an origin. So when did the origin story that Hitler committed suicide in the bunker emerge? Well, come to find out it did not emerge at the time of those alleged events. In fact, if you go back and read the newspaper from May of 45, Stalin said he went to Argentina by way of Spain and President Eisenhower, you know, general Eisenhower at the time later said the same thing.

1:27:39Our intelligence assets cannot identify the whereabouts of that all Hitler, but thank God the war is over. Doesn't matter. And then, you know, you discover 80 years later that the FBI has thousands of pages of archives where they've been tracking allegedly Hitler through Argentina and Paraguay and Uruguay with agents following him spending millions of dollars. So I always say, that's a problem. The other thing is Peter Baumgaert, who was Hitler's private pilot, who was arrested after the war ended or surrendered willingly. He was on trial in Poland, which Gerard Butler explains in his excellent book, Grey Wolf, the escape of out of Hitler. Peter Baumgaert was under multiple lie detector tests of his whereabouts in the last days. He said with a completely normal expression like everybody knew it. Well, of course, I flew Hitler and Ava Brown and a handful of others out, you know, on this, you know,

1:28:47makeshift airstrip during the battle of Berlin in a Fisler store. And then I dropped them off here and then they ended up in Trondheim. And then I ended up on a submarine, you know, from a base in the Canary Islands or somewhere and they went to Argentina. That's what I heard. That's what he's saying. And the Polish authorities were like, are you kidding me? What are you talking about? Because by then that story that was largely created by, you know, British historian Hugh Trevor Roper, who was, it was M.I.5. Right. You know, that's where that story of the suicide in the bunker really became like the quote official story. But there are too many anomalies in Argentina bank accounts in the name of Juan Keller, who many eyewitnesses say was Martin Boruman. Then you have, of course, famously the house on in Alko in Argentina near Barrio Lote that looks identical to Hitler's house, you know, in, I believe it was in

1:30:00the, I forget which town the, the Bergdorf, I believe. But in any case, when Gerard Butler went to Argentina and interviewed, for example, the maids at the Eden hotel, which was run and owned by Nazis who have pictures with Hitler and letters saying, if you ever get in trouble on your little adventure and lose, you can always come here. Well, he interviewed the maid who's an old lady now. And she said, yeah, of course he was here. His name was Mr. Wolf. And I'm not supposed to tell you that Mr. Wolf, Mr. Wolf, you know, and what does Adolf mean? It means noble wolf in high German. So I think it's absolutely true that, you know, Evita and Juan Perone washed the Nazi money, you know, and of course you could take it from there. Did they build a secret fourth Reich? And was that what operation high jump was and all this stuff? I don't know. I just know that there's no evidence that I've seen that skull is not been, you know, connected to Hitler.

1:31:18The one I always thought and Hitler had multiple doubles, just like Churchill and others. And, you know, many people have said the one that they found was one of the doubles and the other one was a woman. But I would trust Russian and US intelligence sources at the time, yeah, combine with what I just said as probably more the story than this very convenient nothing to see here. He shot himself. We burned the body. Story we've all been told. Yeah. Yeah. It's really weird, Michael, that I've been in this kind of in this realm for at least five years and doing two podcasts a week. So that's several hundred podcasts. Wow. And I've never talked about, I've never found anyone to talk about.

1:32:21What really happened to Hitler that he did some of it by your reckoning he died in the say 61 62. It's for his private. That's what Gerard Butler proposed because I can't say if the the testimony of every witness he said was a hundred percent accurate, but he had found people that swore that they had still seen evidence that Hitler was alive into the late 50s early 60s. But of course he was probably in very poor health. And I don't think he was active. I think he was probably laying low. And according to the FBI reports, he had changed his mustache. Yeah, but Martin Bormon was walking around with no disguise as a man named Juan Keller. And everybody kind of knew he was a former high ranking Nazi in Paraguay and Argentina at the time. And I remember I mean, I was in the everybody that lives in Barry Loché to this day still celebrates in a parade Hitler's coming to power, you know, and the onsh loose and things like that. So it's like people think South America and they're very myopic. They think, well, why would the Nazis? Well, Barry Loché in Argentina, Patagonia looks very similar to Germany. It's very cold. There's mountains and his fill with German speaking people. So that would be actually perfect place to hide Hitler. Right.

1:33:46What being who was who was Jared Butler? Gerard Butler was a he's still around. He's a British journalist who wrote this incredible book based on firsthand accounts and his own investigation of the FBI files when they first came out called Grey Wolf. And he's a British journalist and I read it. I don't know. Oh my god. He's incredible. Yeah, his book is amazing. You know, and since then many people have like tried to debunk him and it just you hit a brick wall because he's pretty hard core journalist. And he doesn't say anything without factual evidence. That's that's where I learned a lot about like the pilot, for example, you know, I didn't go to the Polish archives. I found that in Butler's book and it's true. And then he got a bunch of death threats while he was poking around on there. So he had to kind of be very careful himself. People said, you know, let it go, man. We don't need to bring that back. That was a long time ago.

1:34:49Before we go, Michael, how I mean some academics, I imagine would be quite nervous about being seen to embrace so called conspiracy theorists. The other Chinese not bothered by that kind of thing. They're much more open people because they don't have that propaganda that tells them like in the West that every year, ironically, you know, you're told that but actually in my experience, they're very open to, for example, the Epstein files, like none of them doubt that that's absolutely true. You know, and they believe that much more than many of my friends in America who can't believe it, you know, I think they're much more aware that the world is a mysterious place that governments don't always tell the truth and they know that they know that they know that the China definitely. Yeah, they do. And you know, I find people that I talk to they many students like know about that thing. I just told you about with Hitler. You know, they they I don't know how they discovered it.

1:35:56But they, you know, have VPNs and things like this. And you know, they're very open-minded people, you know, but it's it's an interesting, you know, tie in because it's like in the end, whether it's Atlantis or what is the real image of Cleopatra or Alexander or where was Hitler. There's so many things, James, that we just take for granted and we don't realize we're taking one story that becomes the official story at a specific time in space and ignoring the vast body of evidence to the contrary. Um, Michael, I love talking to you. Um, where can we find your book? Because some people mark you. Some people will read your book. I'll bet you that there's an uptick in sales. So tell us where we can find it.

1:36:57Well, yeah, thanks. First of all, thank you so much for for how have I come out of retirement for you, James. I haven't been on a podcast in about a year. Um, but yeah, that's the truth. It's been about a year. But, um, yeah, you can find the book on Amazon.com in all the places that, you know, most continents have it, even India now. And it's also in Spanish. You can find it. Just click on my name when you get to the Amazon and you'll see the version in fully translated in Spanish by me. And, uh, you can also contact me if you have a question at my website, Michael LeFlem one word.com. Is that your name, by the way? Yes, that is my real, my real name is what you're in the flam. That's a French name. My mother is from Brittany, France and my, my father's from Black from the Bahamas, actually. Yes, but I have my mother's last name. Okay. Yeah. It's not. Yeah, you can get the book on, you could get the book on on Amazon. And it's also, um, if you like listening to audiobooks, it's, uh, unaudible.

1:38:10And it's in Kindle hardcover, softcover and all the same formats in Spanish, even Spanish audiobook, if you're interested. And a book is called Visions of Atlantis reclaiming our lost ancient legacy. Well, well done, Michael. And thank you. You've, you've taught me around. I haven't gone away thinking as I sometimes do. I'm always up for giving people a good hearing. That's always been my main aim. And often, no, not often, sometimes in the course of the podcast, I find myself thinking, this guy's a dick. He doesn't. He's making it up. He's, and one of the, one of the tales I find is, is the ease with which people answer questions and their fluency. And if they can't answer great questions, my, my antenna start twitching because I think, well, why were you, why are you in this realm? If you can't answer straight questions, if you can't communicate.

1:39:12So thank you. I think you've, I think you've been great and very good luck with learning Mandarin. I think you'll need that luck. Yes. Yes. That's, that's almost harder than finding Atlantis. Yes. Yes. Yes. I think you probably is. Yeah. And I hope you get, I hope you end up in the Azores. I mean, not permanently. I don't think anyone want to be permanently in the Azores. I don't know. I was just in, I was just scuba diving in, in a remote island off in the Gulf of Thailand. So I thought to myself, man, I really am like one of those weird people that could live on a two kilometer square island in a paradise for the rest of my life. I actually think that I think the diving is probably quite good round the Azores. I'm sure. But the diving I just went on in Thailand on a cave wall that just dropped sheer into the ocean on purpose of ability. 20 meters down with the sharks and the octopi and everything spectacular, spectacular, spectacular. Was that what kind of sharks?

1:40:16Yeah. Little leopard sharks. Yeah. Leper sharks and just absolute. Like I've been scuba diving for, you know, since I was 15 mainly in Florida. And you know, our reefs are pretty. Yeah. Five out of 10. But this was something like I've only seen on like national geographic. And I just, you know, got back a couple of days ago. And I was just like, man, I got to get back there. You know, I'm not made for the big city. I'm like an island person, I think, that heart, you know. Yeah, yeah. Oh, well, it's been great, great reaching you. Thank you. And everyone else viewers and listeners, you know, I like you. I love you. In fact, but the ones I love especially are the ones that make the effort to become paid subscribers. I really do. I mean, is that a kind of it? It's quite an exclusive club. The people who support me. And I, and it makes, it makes such a huge difference. It's the difference between me living in penury and misery. And in kind of in penury and misery, I will not, I'll put you ship ship podcasts. You need me on form. You need me being happy. You need me being secure. So that's why that's why you're doing it. You're not doing it because I spam you every day with, with my thoughts on, oh, on anything.

1:41:37I don't show you pictures of my children and pets to make you love me more. It's not about that. It's about, do you like what I do? And if you like what I do, then you should morally, I think support me. So thank you. And thank you. One more thing, James. Yeah. Before I go, I always wondered how did you find me? And number two, I don't know if you know, I've been a fan of your podcast for years. And I never thought I would meet you. And I used to listen to you. You never mentioned that. I used to listen to you. Yeah, I used to listen to you years ago in Mexico. I'd listen to, you know, Patrick Henningson, James Dillingpo, I'd listen to all kinds of people. But when I heard that James Dillingpo was into Atlanta, I was like, I looked at the link. I said, what? I listen to that podcast, you know, for political news all the time. So how funny? We can thank Venetia, my lovely assistant and legal advisor.

1:42:37Because Venetia's Venetia's, she's a bit like me. I mean, she's, she's a, she's a, a, a question, but she's totally open to all that the more esoteric, the better. So we're relentlessly curious. That's what we want to, we want to find out. We want to get to the bottom of things and find out the truth. Yeah. And that's why I watched your show because, you know, there were times where I'm like, everybody commenting on whatever I was interested in is full of shit and doesn't really want to get to the truth. And then I'd be like, what does James think about this? And I listen, I say, there's a person that thinks the way I think that's a person that's willing to go a little bit out there. So when I heard that you were interested in my work, I said, wow, how funny. I wonder if he knows I'm a fan of his show for many years. No, I had no idea and I'm, I'm, it's, you've totally made my day. Thank you. Thank you. That's, it's been great. I've loved it. Well, you're welcome. And maybe I'll do another one. I mean, why not? I'll come, everyone, I'm back from Thailand. I'll come out of retirement next year.

1:43:40Okay. Cool. I'm going to have my morning coffee and cigarette now and you go and enjoy your Chinese day. I have my afternoon coffee and cigarette here in Cool Bay. All right. Thank you, James. Okay. Thank you, Michael. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Thank you.

1:44:47Thank you.