Not Criminally Responsible

0:00Support for criminal comes from IAMATE. IAMATE's daily ultimate essentials contain 16 supplements in one drink. They sent me some to try, and I like drinking it in the morning before breakfast. Go to IAMATEhealth.com slash criminal right now, and use code criminal for a free welcome kit, 5 free travel sachets, plus 10% off your order. That's code criminal at IAMATEhealth.com slash criminal. These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to dog no street cure or prevent any disease. Support for criminal comes from Fetch Pet Insurance. Every six seconds a pet owner in the US gets hit with a vet bill over $1,000. Fetch can help. Fetch is the most complete pet insurance for dogs and cats, according to ConsumerAdvocate.org. You get paid back up to 90% of vet bills at any vet in the US and Canada, with claims paid back in as little as two days. Go to fetch pet.com slash save right now for your free quote.

1:03That's fetch pet.com slash save. I've been telling stories about people who've done wrong, been wronged, or gotten caught somewhere in the middle for more than a decade. But what you probably don't know is that while I was starting one of the very first true crime podcasts out there, I was also taking phone calls from my sister from an Iowa prison. This fall I'm going back out on tour. But it's going to be very different from the criminal tours we've done before. Because this time I'm telling a story I've never told before. My own. I'll be coming to Chicago, Philadelphia, Boston, New York, Washington, D.C., Raleigh, Austin, Denver, Minneapolis, LA, Portland, Oregon, San Francisco, and Seattle. Get tickets at this is criminal.com slash live. This episode contains descriptions of violence. Please use discretion. In 1992, a young man turned up by the police headquarters saying that he'd just fled the

2:09scene of the crime and that he wanted to turn himself in. This was in Port St. Joe, a small town along the Gulf Coast of Florida. The man told the police officer his name was Brian Bechtold and that he was 23 years old. The officer asked when the crime had taken place. Brian said he couldn't remember exactly, maybe 10 days ago or maybe 7. The officer asked where he'd been 7 days ago. Brian said he'd been at home in Maryland. And then the officer asked if there were any relatives home who would pick up the phone if they called. And he said, that's who I killed. I killed my parents. We're hearing from author, Makita Brautman. She says at first the police didn't believe Brian. He told them that he'd been, quote, insane for six or seven years. An officer asked why he did it. He said, I'm not sure exactly.

3:10There were a lot of things going on at the time. Brian was able to tell the officer some details. He said he'd used a 12-gauge shotgun and that his father had been eating breakfast. And his mother had been sitting in a recliner. But he also said, quote, I'm not sure about what I remember and what happened. It seemed like I was possessed. It seemed like I wasn't alive. It seemed like something on TV or something like that. Like I wasn't there. Like it wasn't going on. And because he was being so confusing in his responses, the officers didn't know what to do. They thought maybe he was on drugs or maybe he was mistaken. Brian also told them that his parents traveled often and had a mobile home in Deland, Florida. An officer asked if it was possible his parents were just at the mobile home and hadn't been killed. Brian said, I'm sure it happened.

4:12But immediately after that, the officer asked, is there a possibility you dreamed it or thought it? And Brian replied, yes, there is. They went back and forth for a while. But then Brian said, I wish it didn't happen. I wish that something else happened. But I don't know. I don't think so. I think it happened. I'm Phoebe Judge. This is criminal. Brian Bechtold was the fifth and youngest child of George and Dorothy Bechtold. Brian was much younger than the rest of his siblings. When he was born, his oldest sister was 17. The family moved around a lot. And Brian lived in three states before he was five. They eventually settled in Hillendale, Maryland.

5:14Tell me a little bit more about Brian's parents. Who were they? Well, his father, George, had a PhD in engineering. He was kind of like a mechanical genius. He worked for the federal government on military technology. And Dorothy was a homemaker. George, the father was really odd. He had a very bad temper. He could be terrifying to the children. One of Brian's sisters remembered seeing George punch Dorothy in the stomach when she was pregnant with Brian. Brian's older brother, George Jr. got in trouble often. And by the time he was 15, he and his father would get into physical fights, once, outside in front of their house. And it seemed as though George's violence seemed to make Dorothy the mother feel like using force was acceptable. And so she too began to physically abuse and also humiliate the children. Brian's sister Kathy told Makita that once their mother gave her a black eye from hitting

6:20her in the face with a belt buckle. Another time, Brian and Kathy were at their neighborhood swimming pool. And Brian was hit in the head by a toy that one of the other kids was playing with. And Kathy looked over. He was covered in blood. And Kathy immediately gathered him up and they called Dorothy to take him to the hospital. But Dorothy said she was busy and couldn't deal with it right now. And so it was another friend's mother who took them to the hospital. But doctors said they needed a parent's permission to treat Brian. When the hospital tried to call Dorothy, the line was busy. Eventually, a doctor persuaded the operator to interrupt Dorothy's call to get permission to give Brian stitches. Another one of Brian's sisters, Carol, tried running away a few times. And once ended up joining a cult in New York called the Forever Family that, according to Carol, performed exorcisms.

7:20Once she sent Brian an audio recording of one of them, Makita says Brian was six or seven at the time and became fixated on the idea that someone could be possessed by the devil. Makita says that most of Brian's siblings exhibited some signs of mental illness when they were children. For example, George Jr., the oldest child, was really turning into a replica of his father. He became violent, rude, abusive. Kathy, who Brian was very close to, started retreating inwardly and was actually in an out of psychiatric hospitals for suicidal depression. She actually attempted suicide numerous times. And basically, all the children just tried to get away from home as soon as possible. And Brian was left at home alone. Like I said, he was significantly younger than the other siblings. And he himself was depressed and never seemed to have any friends. And then at one point, he mentioned to his school counselor that he had thought about suicide.

8:25The counselor suggested he go to a psychiatric hospital and his parents agreed. And Brian thought that they didn't really so much want to help him as just get him out of the house. By this point, Brian was 16. At the psychiatric hospital, he was diagnosed with depression. He was kept on a maximum security ward for children and put on lithium. He only stayed for 13 days before Dorothy changed her mind and brought him back home against medical advice, according to Brian's records. For a while, things seemed to get a little better. He joined a karate studio and made a friend there. He thought maybe he could train to be a karate teacher after he finished high school. He started dating someone. By this time, Brian's father, George, had retired. And he and Dorothy decided to buy the mobile home in Florida. And they planned to spend five months there every year.

9:28But Brian wasn't invited. So even though he was only 18, he was going to be spending half the year alone in his family home in Maryland. Karate had been a great help for him for a while. But he injured his knee and could no longer go to karate. He started smoking more part doing PCP and LSD. The girl he'd been in love with broke up with him. He had a job delivering pizza which he lost. He got arrested when marijuana was found in his car. So it seemed as though things were really starting to fall apart for him. Brian was put on probation and his parents decided to send him to rehab. Makita says he became paranoid and started to believe that other patients at the facility were secret agents that had been sent to spy on him. His doctors diagnosed him with schizophrenia personality disorder and mixed substance abuse

10:29disorder. Brian made a New Year's resolution in January of 1988 to quit drugs completely. For a while, he isolated himself in his bedroom at his parents' house. With his knee injury, he knew it wasn't realistic to try to become a karate teacher. So he applied to college. And in 1990, was accepted by DeVry University in Georgia. He lived in a house with roommates, but pretty quickly he descended into paranoia. Again, he was very isolated and suspicious and took to even holding a knife behind his back when he answered the door because he was worried about people being against him. After his second trimester, his probation officer told him that he'd violated terms of his probation on the drug charge by moving out of state. Now, his father could easily have helped him work things out with the court so he could finish college. But instead, George simply stopped paying his tuition, so Brian had to return him to

11:33Maryland. He had no choice but to move back in with his parents. Dorothy had brass cancer and wasn't doing well. She used an oxygen tank and was in a lot of pain. Brian noticed that she would drink a whole bottle of cough syrup every evening to knock herself out. Brian told Mikiida that a few times, Dorothy asked him to help her die. Brian just took to living in the basement. He became like inert, apathetic, lost his appetite, started having bad dreams, began staying up all night and slept only during the day. And when his parents went to Florida, he only left the house to buy groceries. He had a dog that he really loved. He walked his dog at night. He said that he would notice strange shadows moving under the trees and he felt people seem to be watching him. Certain cars would go past at certain times of the day. He felt people were in disguise.

12:34He thought that someone had set up a device in the attic, like a machine that had a microphone that picked up his thoughts. And he thought there was a speaker system sending him some liminal messages. His parents said they'd see him talk on the phone without dialing a number. And then believing that all these enemies were against him, he decided he was going to fight back. He bought a gun and kept it on him at all times, even to the point that he kept it with him in the shower. In February of 1992, Brian stopped sleeping. The kida says at first it was on purpose to stay alert in case he was attacked. But then, when he became exhausted, he still couldn't fall asleep. He became frustrated and started punching the walls in his room. He told Makita he thought this went on for about a week. And then, early one morning, he finally started drifting to sleep.

13:35And suddenly he was jolted awake by this violent noise, which was his father yelling in the kitchen downstairs. And Brian said he was almost mesmerized and almost in a trance. All he recalls is he got the gun, went downstairs and shot them both. And he later said it felt like his feet weren't touching the ground. He was just in this kind of strange trance like state. We'll be right back. Support for criminal comes from Mint Mobile. The fall can be a great time to rethink some of your expenses. If you have a pricey phone bill, Mint Mobile can help you replace it with one of their affordable wireless plans. They started just $15 a month. We have a friend who switched to Mint Mobile and said it couldn't have been simpler. And he was able to keep using the same device and phone number. To get your new wireless plan for just $15 a month, go to MintMobile.com slash Phoebe.

14:41That's MintMobile.com slash Phoebe. Cut your wireless bill to $15 a month at MintMobile.com slash Phoebe. That's it. There's no catch. Up front payment of $45 for $3, $90 for $6 or $180 for $12 a month plan required. $15 per month equivalent. Taxes and fees extra. Initial plan term only. Later than 50 gigabytes, my slow and network is busy. Includes up to 20 gigabyte hotspot, capable device required, availability, speed and coverage fairies, MintMobile.com. Support for criminal comes from NetSuite. Maybe you've heard that AI can help your business stay out of the curve. NetSuite next can help you figure out what that actually looks like for you. NetSuite is the AI-powered business management suite that securely connects all of your data. It's a unified suite that brings your financials, inventory, commerce, HR and CRM into a single

15:41source of truth, trusted by over 44,000 customers. NetSuite next is the next big leap in how business gets done, because AI is built into everything you do. It can automatically surface custom insights throughout your day, and anytime you have a question about anything, you can simply ask it. Whether your company earns millions or even hundreds of millions, it's time for NetSuite next, where your business meets AI. If your revenues are at least in the seven figures, get your free business guide aligning for the agentic era, how AI is changing everyday work at NetSuite.com slash criminal. The guide is free to you at NetSuite.com slash criminal. NetSuite.com slash criminal. Brian Bechtold told the police that after he shot his parents, he got in his father's car and started driving. Arthur McEda Brodman. All the way he was hallucinating, he was paranoid, he didn't sleep, he barely ate, he slept

16:46in his car, he thought the police were following him. At one point he hallucinated that there were dead animals all over the highway, so he was an incredibly psychotic state. And why did he eventually decide to go to the police? When he arrived at Port St. Joe in Florida, he was staying at a campsite and at the campsite in the office, he found a King James Bible. He said that he read the Bible all day and all night for three days, doing nothing but walking his dog and reading the Bible, and he said that as he read, he felt like his sonnety was starting to return, and he said he realized that he'd been under the influence of the devil, and now God was saving him, and Jesus wanted him to do the right thing, which was going to turn himself in. After interviewing Brian, the police in Port St. Joe contacted the police in Maryland, an officer's were sent to George and Dorothy's house.

17:46And they found a dead woman sitting on a chair in the living room, and also a dead man lying face down on the kitchen floor. They'd both been killed by a shotgun, and they seemed to have been dead for about 10 days. And the house was just completely neglected. There were newspapers, county rappers, serial boxes, and then things like a walking frame in oxygen tank, medicine, pill bottles, and there was also a TV guide open to a page, and on the page the words go to hell had been, seems like they'd been smeared apparently in blood. Brian was taken into custody in Florida. He spent four days in the Port St. Joe jail, and then was transferred by an extradition company back to Maryland. Brian's sister Kathy told a detective that Brian had, quote, never been right in the head. Makita says two of Brian's siblings were furious with him, but the other two, including

18:47Kathy, felt some sympathy for Brian. Obviously, they were extremely shocked and grief-stricken, but they also understood that Brian had been seriously ill, and they knew that if he'd been in his right mind, he'd never have been capable of an act like this, and his sisters got him a lawyer who said immediately that he should be given a psychological evaluation. The lawyer they hired told Makita that his first impression of Brian was that he was a very pleasant young man, but obviously insane. He remembers that when he visited Brian at the detention center, quote, he was constantly aware of sounds and noises in the building and gave them sinister motivations, air conditioning, doors closing, and things like that. He thought they were people watching him or devices that had been set up to observe him. In July of 1992, a psychiatrist interviewed Brian.

19:50The psychiatrist concluded that Brian was suffering from a psychotic illness, namely schizophrenia or parinotype, at the time of his alleged offences, and that he could not appreciate the criminality of his conduct and his ability to conform to the requirements of the law. The crime of killing one's own parent, or paracid, has been called, quote, the schizophrenic crime. I mean, people think that paracid is this terribly rare crime, but it's not. There are about 300 cases of paracid a year, and many of these are committed by young men like Brian suffering from paranoid schizophrenia, which begins, usually the onset is in the late teens to early 20s, usually in young men. And almost all of these incidents of parasite occurring dysfunctional or codependent families like Brian's, and again, often after years of physical, verbal and sometimes sexual abuse

20:54on the part of one or both of the parents, Brian is very typical of such perpetrators. They tend to be a male in late teens or early 20s from a white middle class family. Like Brian, they tend to be isolated without many friends, and the typical weapon is a gun kept in the home. And in most cases, when the murder occurs, the perpetrator reports exactly like Brian being in a dissociative state. And afterwards, if he can remember the crime at all, it seems like unreal or dreamlike or vague, almost as though it happened to someone else. So what? Brian's mental evaluation mean. What would happen next? Well both the defense and the state psychiatrists found him NCR, which means not criminally responsible. So there was no trial, and he was committed to Clifton Perkins State Hospital, which is

21:55Maryland's only maximum security forensic psychiatric facility. And he was determined to do well. He felt like he made some friends, and he liked having order and structure in his life. And he realized that, you know, he'd been so isolated that it was really important to have the company of other people. There seemed to be very minimal therapy. There was no one on one therapy, just group therapy. And there were some other non-clinical groups like choir, cooking, art. Otherwise, there was not really anything to do. After just over a year at the hospital, Brian was moved from maximum security to medium security. He had more freedom. He could drink coffee and wear street clothes. And the rooms were more comfortable with air conditioning and real mirrors. After a couple of years, Brian's doctors considered moving him to minimum security. There he'd be able to leave the hospital occasionally, as long as he was accompanied

22:57by a chaperone. But when Brian went before the hospital's review board, they decided he wasn't ready for minimum security. Instead, they thought he needed to be on more medication. He was already on an antidepressant. Now his doctor wanted to add an anti-psychotic. Makeda says Brian didn't want to be on an anti-psychotic. But he hoped it would help his chances of moving to lower security in the future. But within weeks, he felt very stiff. His brain was kind of fogged up. The days started to merge into one another. He'd sleep, wake up, eat, go back to bed, and started to sort of regress into a similar hallucinogenic hypnotic state that he'd been in in the past, except it was a much more inert version of that state. Makeda says around this time, Brian started thinking to himself, he shouldn't have pled

24:00not criminally responsible. If he was in prison instead of the hospital, he thought he wouldn't be forced to take such heavy medication. By this point, Brian had been at the hospital for more than three years. Makeda says at the time, three years was the average length of time patient stayed at Perkins. And people who'd committed similar crimes, Brian noticed were getting out in four or five years. So he thought he'd be there around five, six years maximum, especially since he was obeying the psychiatrist. Things got a little better when a new psychiatrist started working on his ward. The psychiatrist swapped Brian to a lower dose of anti-psychotic medication and seemed happy with the results. Brian was moved to minimum security in the fall of 1997. And that doctor was so pleased with his progress that he actually said, a year on minimum,

25:03and in my opinion, you'll be ready to go home. So he was getting, he was very optimistic about his chances of leaving soon, especially since he saw so many other people leaving. And because he was really well behaved and responsiveness to therapy, he started to be allowed to take trips outside the hospital, supervised trips. And all in all, he took 14 supervised trips outside the hospital when he was on minimum. But then in a therapy session, his therapist announced there was something new he wanted to try with Brian. He'd been taking lessons in hypnosis and he wanted to try to hypnotize him. When the therapist instructed him to lie down, Brian said no. After that, there was a note in his chart that said he'd, quote, refuse therapy. And at the hospital, if a patient refused therapy, they were automatically moved to a higher security ward. So Brian was sent back to medium.

26:05The doctor he liked was no longer there. And it didn't take long for the new doctor to increase Brian's medication. This time it's worse, he actually becomes incontinent and he feels like they're medicating him in a stupor. He's really frustrated because there seemed to be this constant parade of patients who arrive at Perkins and get discharged and he's just staying in the same place or even going backwards. And he realizes that there's a strong possibility that he was going to end up as one of those old men that he saw wearing diapers who just slumped in front of the television for 20 years. And to him, that was a fate worse than death. What did he decide to do next? I mean, he's really stuck here. He decides to get a weapon, take a hostage, and if he gets shot by the police, great. If he lives, he'll plead guilty and get sent to prison because many of the patients in

27:09Perkins who'd been in prison actually said they preferred it in prison. In prison, you're not being judged all the time. If you don't want to come for breakfast, that's fine. You don't go for breakfast. It's not written in your file as some kind of psychological deficit that you're going through. So also in prison, you have a set sentence, you know, it's 10 years or 20 years. Brian was starting to see that his time at Perkins seemed to be endless. So one day, finding himself alone in the laundry room, he managed to break a support strut off an iron board. And this was a piece of metal about 14 inches long. And he filed it down by rubbing it against the grout in his shower. And he made a sling for it. And he started wearing it all the time under his clothes, waiting for a chance to use it. They'll be right back.

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29:20Support for criminal comes from Shopify. As fall gets closer and life gets busier, you might feel like now isn't the right time to jump into an intense new process like starting a business. But you don't always need to wait for the right time. Instead you can create it. Shopify can help. It's the e-commerce platform responsible for millions of sales worldwide. They take care of everything you need to break out of the brainstorming phase and create your first successful sale. Shopify's templates and tools can help you build a great looking website fast. No coding required. And if you have any questions, Shopify's built-in AI assistant sidekick is there to help you build, troubleshoot and keep things moving. If you're ready to hear the sound of your first sale today, then head over to Shopify.com slash criminal to start your free trial today. You can start your free trial at Shopify.com slash criminal. That's Shopify.com slash criminal. On Sunday, December 5, 1999, around 3pm, Brian Bechtold stood just inside the door of

30:27the ward and waited. The nurses were just finishing their shift change. And Brian knew the guards were often distracted around this time. When a nurse unlock the door, Brian held up the metal shank he'd made. He told the nurse to turn around and take him out of the ward. Two security guards tried to intercept Brian but he told them to back off or he'd kill them. The guards didn't carry weapons and they just let him go. Brian made it to the hospital lobby and then out into the parking lot. From there, he started running. He didn't make it far before the police found him walking along the side of a road. An officer approached him, drew his gun and yelled for Brian to get down on the ground. Brian faced the police officer with his arms open and said, come on, shoot me. You're going to have to shoot me. I'm not going back. You'd better shoot me in the head.

31:30After some back and forth with the officer, Brian turned around and ran down the street and the officers followed him. At the end of the road, Brian turned, headed past a warehouse and towards some loading dogs. He again told the officers, I'm not going back. What are you waiting for? Shoot me. Nearby there was a black pickup truck with a man inside. Brian said, I'm going to count to three. Then I'm going to stab this guy and take his truck so you'd better get ready to shoot me. Brian started counting and moved towards the truck and the officer shot him. He was shot once in the arm and twice in the stomach. He was airlifted to a hospital in Baltimore for surgery. After weeks recovering in another hospital, he was brought to police headquarters and interviewed. When they asked him if he knew why he was there, he said, sure, I escaped from Perkins hospital. I took a hostage.

32:30I tried to steal a car. I threatened a citizen. I got shot by police. He was charged with several counts of assault. But instead of going to jail to await trial, he was sent back to Perkins. And now things were much worse. He was considered a high security risk. He was put in restraints. He was tied down to a bed. He was bullet and harassed. He wasn't given any individual therapy because that was considered too dangerous. He wasn't allowed to go into the courtyard or have visitors. He was put back on anti-psychotic medication. After Brian's restraints were finally removed, he got in trouble when a guard saw a exercising. In a psych evaluation, after Brian's escape attempt, the doctor conducting it said the results, quote, presented little evidence for the existence of psychotic processes. And Makita says the doctor saw the test results as proof that Brian was hiding his psychosis,

33:34and therefore still had paranoid schizophrenia. In August of 2002, Brian's trial for his escape attempt took place. Perkins staff testified that Brian had never shown any sign of violence in his seven years there before his escape. The hospital's clinical director said this was proof he was dangerous. Quote, this man obviously has a desperation going on that he kept from us. Brian was found guilty of second degree assault and a weapons violation. The judge declined to send him to prison, saying doing so would be, quote, rewarding Brian. He was sent back to Perkins and sentenced to 13 years probation. Makita says by this point, Brian had lost all hope of ever being released. Several years passed, and in 2005, he started having trouble with his health.

34:36He was taken to the hospital and diagnosed with an eye condition. He also got a routine chest x-ray, and it came back with a shadow on his lung. The doctors suspected that Brian might have lung cancer. Of course they wanted to treat it, but Brian thought this is a great opportunity for him to get out of the hospital through death he wanted to die. He refused treatment, and the hospital opposed this very vehemently. His psychiatrist said that he wasn't mentally competent enough to make his own decision, especially in a matter like this, of such serious importance. At this time, the only member of his family that he was in contact with was his sister Kathy, and she lived in Ohio. He rarely saw her. He had no family or friends who were willing to act as a surrogate decision maker. But he felt that this was a physical illness, and like anyone else who has a physical illness,

35:40he had the right to refuse treatment. Brian decided to try to argue his case in front of a jury. He chose to defend himself, and told the jury that, if a doctor says he wants to perform a biopsy, you have every right to say no thank you, and go on your way. Individuals have autonomy, and things can't be done to them without their consent. Hospital staff testified, and gave examples of behavior that they said proved Brian was mentally ill. And therefore unfit to make decisions about his health. For example, one psychiatrist said Brian had once stuffed his ears with toilet paper for an unknown reason. But Brian said he was in bed. The nurses were talking in the hall. He couldn't get to sleep. He got extremely frustrated. He'd asked them again and again. And he put toilet paper in his ears. I mean, that seems to be kind of a rational decision for me. In the end, the judge announced a mistrial on a technicality, and Brian was sent back to Perkins.

36:47The court-cranted Perkins' temporary authority to make medical decisions on his behalf. In the months after, Brian had a chest x-ray that came back with an even darker mark on his lung, a mass 13 centimeters wide. He had a biopsy. But the doctors couldn't figure out if it was definitely cancer. And then one day, the mass vanished. Doctors decided it was something called spontaneous regression. Mikaida met Brian when she started volunteering at Perkins. She's also a certified psychoanalyst. In 2013, she began leading a reading group where patients read and discuss short stories. Brian took part. And he always seemed to me perfectly articulate, sensible, intelligent, I saw no sign of mental illness. She says she was shocked when she learned that Brian had been at Perkins more than 20 years.

37:52Less than a year after Mikaida met Brian, she heard that he had filed a lawsuit against the Maryland Department of Health and Mental Hygiene. He again chose to represent himself. And his trial began in February of 2014. The judge told the jury they would be considering whether Brian currently had a mental disorder. And if so, if he would be a danger to himself or others if he were released. The hospital's chief psychiatrist testified that Brian had a very subtle kind of mental illness that could only be identified by experienced psychiatrist that had known him and studied him for a long time. But she also said that she hadn't had much contact with Brian. And it only ever spoken at length with him once, just before the trial. One witness, a social worker whose specialty was the educational psychology of deaf children, said she had only reviewed his most recent medical records.

38:56The jury deliberated for almost two days, but couldn't reach a decision. And in the end, the judge deferred to the doctors. And this is what often happens in cases like this, that a judge will fail that he's not an expert in these cases and felt that any legal intervention like releasing him would be an impediment to his care. Brian had lost his case. The judge told Brian, you have been perhaps the most consument gentleman in this courtroom that I've ever seen. Brian told the judge that he was okay with the result. Quote, I think you've been an excellent judge. It's been a fair trial. And I really thank you for it. I mean, he didn't show any anger at all, it seemed. No, I mean, he was so used to dealing with authority figures who were hostile towards him or who didn't take him seriously or saw him as a person who was mentally ill,

39:57unbalanced, unstable, had to be treated with kid gloves. And he was really impressed by this judge who he felt treated him as just as he would treat anyone else. And Brian felt that he'd been treated fairly by an authority figure for the first time. Brian was sent back to Perkins. McKeita says he was considered an escape risk. And by the spring of 2016, hadn't been allowed to go outside for nearly a year. He filed a complaint with the hospital's Patience Grievance Committee, but was told, quote, fresh air is not a human right. McKeita says as far as she can tell, Brian is still at Perkins. Brian's sister, Kathy, has said she doesn't understand why Brian is still being held in Perkins and is offered to take care of Brian if he were to be released.

40:57A forensic psychiatrist, not affiliated with the hospital, interviewed him four times and found him free of psychotic thinking. He said, quote, it is my profession with reasonable medical certainty that Mr. Bechtold would not be a danger to himself or others if released into the community. We've reached out to the Maryland Department of Health and haven't heard back. It just seems to me when you see all the steps that you see all the other people that have been led out of the hospital, hard to try to figure why he's still in. I think one of the main reasons why he's still in is that he doesn't have any support on the outside. His sister's been doing what she can, but she lives in a higher, she has problems of her own. And of course, after he'd behaved in this violent manner, taking people's hostage and assaulting people, and of course, his reputation at the hospital gets worse and worse and worse.

42:02And he's been at the hospital longer than most of the doctors and most of the staff. And so they don't remember him when he was young and doing all he could to get along with the psychiatrists and following the hospital rules. They just know him now from his reputation as this, like, the only person to escape from the hospital in so many years and this violent murderer who conceals weapons in his cell. I think I just kind of this idea that being found criminally insane or not liable because is the easier way out. That's what you want. This is, let's maybe we can get by on this. This case shows a different side of that. Right. And in some cases, like Brian's case, and the case of many others who don't have support in the community and who don't get consistent treatment in the hospital, it can actually be worse than prison because mostly because of this terrible sense of limbo

43:07that there's no end to it. It's not like you're going to do two years, ten years or twenty years. Or even, you know, if you have life without parole, you know, there's no hope. You're going to get used to your incarcerated life. But this endless sense of hope of possibility is just absolutely devastating and mind-numbing. But the other thing is being judged all the time. If he stays in his room to read, is that a sign of mental illness? If he keeps quiet in group therapy, is that a sign of mental illness? I mean, he's constantly being judged. And there's a sense in that that you're not seen as an individual who makes their own choices, but you're seen as, you know, a mentally ill person who is exhibiting signs of mental illness. And that's really dehumanizing, I think. You're not being given your own agency, you're not being treated with dignity. McKee-Doprotman's book is a couple found slain after a family murder.

44:14We'll have a link in our show notes. Criminal is created by Lauren Spore and me. In ADO Wilson is our senior producer. Katie Bishop is our supervising producer. Our producers are Susanna Robertson, Jackie Sajiko, Lily Clark, and Lena Silicin. Our show is mixed and engineered by Veronica Seminetti. Julie Nauxander makes original illustrations for each episode of Criminal. You can see them at thisiscriminal.com. And you can sign up for our newsletter at thisiscriminal.com slash newsletter. We hope you'll consider supporting our work by joining our membership program, Criminal Plus. You can listen to Criminal This Is Love and Phoebe Reads' A Mystery without any ads. Plus, you'll get bonus episodes. These are special episodes with me and Criminal Co-creator Lauren Spore talking about everything from how we make our episodes to the crime stories that caught our attention that week to things we've been enjoying lately. To learn more, go to patreon.com slash criminal.

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