Oct 8 Hr 2

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1:00LinkedIn can help you land more clients so you have a calendar to organize. Grow your small business on LinkedIn. Learn more at linkedin.com slash small business. This is the Joe Pag Show. To talk to Joe, call 888-941-PagS. And now it's Joe Pags. Great radio stations everywhere, along with CJN for Sam. It is Polo Get It Done. It's the Joe Pags Show. Thanks. Appreciate you stopping by. There's a lot going on. There's a lot to get to. Nadal Hassan is going to be executed. He's the guy that showed up in the ready room at Ford Hood. And the execution is going to be public. It's pretty interesting. I see people complaining about it over on X. He's a guy in a wheelchair. He's quite a fleets. Right. Because he got shot killing a bunch of people at Ford Hood.

2:00Now, am I going to be watching it? No. Now, I don't care to. If you want to, you should. And those who see it, who might think to themselves, maybe I'll be a terrorist. They might want to watch it too. Because this will be the end result of your terrorist. The Secretary of War, Pete Heggseth was asked about this today from our friend Jack Pazobik. And he asked him about whether the guy had any last wishes, whether he's talked to him with the story is and how this is going to go down. Excitution by firing squad. Army major betrays his country. Radical Islamist kills a bunch of Americans at Ford Hood. Of course, we're going to do it at Ford Hood. And do it on a Thursday. We're going to do it at one o'clock, which is when he did it. And it's going to be soldiers with rifles executing the firing squad. He hadn't been since World War II since we've done that. Well, I kind of like the mentality we had in World War II, which was when, which was, you understand when the enemy attacks you, you, you, you do stand your ground. So it was radical Islamist terror attack. Remember what a, remember what a bomb called it? Workplace violence.

3:00I mean, that's what we're up against. That's the world viewer up against is workplace violence. A CVE. We know what it is. It was a radical Islamist attack in uniform inside the ranks. And so he's going to get a firing squad of soldiers as it should be. And we'll make sure that people are able to watch it. That it's public because people need to understand that. This is a, there's serious consequences for these types of things. Do you, it has major has on made any final requests reach out to the president like that's your knowledge? Don't care. We'll see you in December, third, December, third, forwardhood, latent German secretary or Pete Hegsett. Thank you very much. Thanks for coming with us. Jack Pizovic out there talking to the Secretary of War, Pete Hegsett. What do you think of that? Public firing squad. Watch it if you want to watch it. What do you think about that? It is eight nine four one pegs. It is eight nine four one seven two four seven Joe Pags. Calm. It's interesting timing knowing that this whole Christophe pike thing is still drama in Tennessee. She's up walking around breathing the air getting better every day.

4:03The goal was to execute her and it didn't happen. And listen, don't act like I don't know. How ironic it sounds that I as a Christian want to see somebody die. I'm not, I don't want to watch it. I want to see somebody get retribution. It is biblical. It's in the Old Testament, it's in the New Testament. It's all over the place that this is just retribution. So the idea that somehow Jesus would be against that. And it's from the same people. It's so weird to me that those who are anti capital punishment are the same ones that are pro abortion, which is so weird. And I don't call them pro choice because if you're pro choice, that you are pro abortion. And yes, if you say to yourself, you know, I'm pro choice, but I would never be part of an abortion, then you're pro life. You're just afraid to say it. And if you don't want to say pro life, because somehow that's an issue. You probably would say pro choice,

5:05anti abortion. The whole terminology thing kills me. Same thing with gender affirming care. That's just a lie, just something made up. But what do you think about executing somebody with a firing squad, which has been done historically in this country, doing it where the public can see that they want to, I don't want to, don't need to. If you tell me that you executed, I believe you. But what do you think about Christophe like walking around and surviving two doses of the drug cocktail that wasn't properly put into her arm? What do you think about her like getting on your dime? We are paying for her health care right now. What do you think about that? She was ready to die. Hang me firing squad. Let's do it. And for some reason, it didn't do that. It doesn't make any sense, to be honest. It just doesn't. So this is a secretary of war. Says, this is the way it's going to happen. Good. We won't have any doubt that Nidalha son will be dead on that day.

6:08We won't have any doubt. That we will know that he's gone. If this isn't, did you find the vein? And doing it in public is I think a big departure from where we've been for the past more than half century, maybe 70, 80 years. But don't you think it's a deterrent for people to see somebody who broke the law, killed a bunch of people, did the most heinous things on our country? Don't you think it would be a deterrent for people to see that and go, man, I don't, I don't want to ever be in that position. I might not like the military. I might not like the country, but I'm not going to put myself in that position. I think that would be effective on some. 889 for one packs. 889 for one, 7247 Joe Pags.com Steve is in Cambridge. Steve, what's going on? Hi. Hi, Joe. I'm really glad to see that the army is going to employ something that is very efficient and less complicated and probably in the long run, much more human and lethal injection or the electric chair or the gas chamber.

7:13Well, it is more humane because you're dead immediately. You're done. That's right. And there's none of these complications. And I think I think the state of Utah, for example, still has hanging and the firing squad and a person can get his or her choice. And if either way, if done correctly, again, it's instantaneous. And very efficient. Joe, I don't think it's a good idea to make it public because I think Trump's enemies will use this politically to say, oh, isn't this barbaric? So I don't really think it might be, as you say, a deterrent for some, but most radical Islamists and the people who commit these kind of terrorist crimes are usually are pretty happy to die in the commission of the crime. So I don't think making it public is good. I think making it public gives me a choice if I want to watch it or not.

8:16I think making it public might actually wake somebody up who is on the path to radicalization. And without a doubt, what Steve said is true. This guy was a radical Islamist. He did this because of his religion. And he said so as he was doing it. So I think that this might stop the radicalization process for some. This might wake some people up to the point that, wow, if I do this, I'm really going to die. I'm all for it. Secretary of war saying, I don't care what his thoughts are. I don't care what request he has. I think that's appropriate as well. I never understood the whole. What do you want for your last meal? Screw you, give him a piece of bread and some water and take him down. Because his option was, and he was a major in the army. His option was, continue collecting big bucks, get your nice pension, enjoy the fruits of this land and the opportunities given to you. And don't kill a bunch of people in the ready room at Fort Hood. He had that option just like we all have the option to not kill somebody today. And the vast majority of us, thank God, would never even consider doing it.

9:21But for some reason, this guy thought it was the right thing to do. Let me go back. Let me say how to Rick who is in North Carolina. Rick, what's going on? Hi. Hey, Joe, how you doing? Living a dream man. What's happening? Thank you. Hey, man, I'm going to tell you what. It's all going to be this short and sweet. You know, I, I believe that making his execution public. I, I am for it myself. Now, whether somebody chooses to watch it or not, it's certainly just like you said up to them. Yes. I think if it stops it, it, it, it, it, doing this publicly stops one of these people from doing something. Yes. I think it's worth it. I, Rick, I agree. And, and we have no way to quantify that. I like what you said. I want you to continue in a second. But you can't quantify it so that people in any other side will say, you have no idea if it's going to stop them from doing it. If they don't do it, we didn't know that it stopped them. Right. Well, what I'm saying is if it does, we agree. What I'm saying, you know, and that's possible. And I'll leave you with this. Obama is disgusting.

10:22All right, Rick. We appreciate you. What Obama did to this country, I agree was disgusting. His entire plan administratively was to divide this country and he did it. He did it very well. And before you jump to conclusion, oh, you're talking to the first black president. Listen, I would have been fine with many different black people who are politicians being president way before Obama. But that said, this was Obama's plan. If I can divide the country, I can control the country. And we can, we can expand government, expand entitlements to have more control on people. Tell black people, whites don't like you. Tell whites Hispanics don't like you. Tell Hispanics Asians don't like you. And separating it on that level really does work for the left, for Democrats in this country. Obama was an expert at a good looking guy, spoke very well, smooth communicator. And a guy was able to, to make people fall for the Okidook that otherwise would not have. And Talariko is trying to do the same thing. He's not as smooth. El Sian is trying to do the same thing. He's not as smooth.

11:23There are some people out there that are tricking the voters. Obama tricked the voters. It was a, a presidency that hurt this country by a lot. And I don't care what his background is. What his ethnicity is. 88941 PAGS, 889417247, jailpags.com. A lot of people calling in. Public execution, what do you think? Fire and Squat, what do you think? What about Chris the Pike? Are we just going to now? We should stop executing anybody because it didn't work. Or maybe should we get people that can do it successfully and make it happen? Because that is her retribution for the disgusting act that she did. And she's ready to die. That's the weird part. She's like, yeah, why am I alive? And there are people like advocating for her and she's not. I believe she said, give me the firing squad or give me the, give me the hanging. And they said, no, we want to shoot some drugs in your army. They missed it. They missed the vein. Weird. 88941 PAGS, jailpags.com. Car shield is a great organization that wants to make sure that you've got a plan that will help you to get through massive car repair bills. And it's what they are.

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13:35Fall tastes better with better ingredients from whole foods market. No added growth hormones or antibiotics in their meat department means slow braze short ribs are even more satisfying. All see food is well caught like their vibrant sockeye salmon or verified responsibly farmed and all sweets, including fall themed cookies are made without high fruit toast corn syrup spice up fall at whole foods market. I'm not a bad guy. I great to have you thanks. I appreciate your stuff and bites the Joe Pax show thanks bottom of the average Jennifer coffin. Defer she literally received four emails that were ransom emails. In April about Nancy Guthrie Jennifer coffin never who we've had in the show many times received those emails and. I took a fake news last hour and I said that you're going to get the reliable news for me that I'll give you my opinion afterwards.

14:38I want to play this audio and video again and perhaps I didn't hear JD Vance say what he said. And I will always always say if I got something wrong, I got something wrong. Let's listen. Visa program is meant to allow companies to bring in really the best of the best from outside the United States of America for positions that are completely impossible to fill with American workers. Unfortunately, the program has become a rife with fraud over the last several years, probably the last several decades. And here's the basic game that American corporations and foreign corporations will play. If you're just joining us this hour, the administration is cracking down on big tech companies. Microsoft is I guess the worst defender, according to vice president JD Vance when it comes to the H1B visa program. They will say maybe they'll put an advertisement in a small town newspaper. They'll go out there and say that we have advertised for a position with our company and nobody is responding to it. And they will use that lack of a response to then go and replace American workers with what is effectively foreign indentured servants.

15:40And I'll get into that in a second, but these are not people who are coming into the United States of America. These H1B visas with the full rights of an American citizen or an American employee. They're coming in and being mistreated by their employers and being used to undercut the wages of American workers. Now there are two ways this system fundamentally works. What's interesting is he's turning the page, but he's not reading anything. He's turning it where he knows he should turn it, but he's not looking down at all. The H1B visa is how the people get into the United States in the first place. And then a perm program is how those employees stay. So after a couple of cycles of H1B reapplication, the companies will then apply for a perm at P.R.M. which will allow the employee to stay, get a green card and potentially stay in the United States indefinitely. So if the H1B visa is how people come into the country, the perm program is how they stay in the United States to begin with. Now there has been no company in the United States, unfortunately, that has abused the system more than Microsoft.

16:42And let me just give you a couple of statistics on this. So in the last year, Microsoft, and I want to be clear about the data here, so let me check this. But Microsoft laid off last year 6,000, 6,000 American workers. At the same time, the company benefited from 6,300 H1B visas and almost 3,000 green cards. In other words, if you do the math for every worker that Microsoft laid off, they replaced that worker with one and a half foreign indentured servants. Now that is a scandal system that we've allowed in this country for far too long. But thanks to the work of this task force and thanks to the empowerment of the President of the United States, we're going to stop. I'm willing to be wrong if I'm wrong. I still don't think that I am. And let me tell you why of the 6,300 that were brought in. How many of them converted into the 3,000 that got their green card? Again, when you come in on an H1B visa, that is not a green card. What he's saying is that many of the people that are being brought in then converted to a green card. So whereas he might be counting as at 9,300, a lot of those 6,300 might be the ones that are getting the green card through the PURM program.

17:48If it's not, if it's on top of, he's right, it's 1.5. Listen, I was a pretty good at math. When I did my ACT back in the day in 1984, I was placed in advanced college calculus. So I do it pretty quickly in my brain. If he does mean that the 3,000 are separate from the 6,300, then the numbers right. It's even more than 1.5. But those 3,000, we don't know if they're PURM programs from the 6,300 that came in. Either way, suffice it to say this. This program has been abused and defrauded. And American workers have lost their jobs to the tune of thousands of people just through Microsoft. And I hope his numbers are right. That would mean it's even worse than we thought. 9,300 instead of 6,300. But I don't think that he says, because he says on top of that, 6,300, top of that 3,000 GodVee's or God green cards, you could have gotten green cards if you were somebody who came in and an H1B. Again, I'm willing to be wrong. And if I am at the end of the day, great. It's even better that he's exposing this and it's better for the country and better for American workers. If I'm not wrong, still it's a lot of people. And the math was a little bit off.

18:48Either way, let me get back to the phone lines on the idea that Nadal Hassan is going to be executed publicly by a firing squad. If you want to watch it, I guess you can. Let me go to Mark and Marilyn. Mark with tongue your mind. Hi. Yeah, hi. Thank you for taking my call. I really appreciate it. Thank you. I wanted to talk about this for a long time. I just retired from active duty after 37 and a half years in the military. And I was one of Nadal Hassan's classmates at the age back in 2007. And it brings a lot of feelings to me. I was first really worried that he was commuted when Biden had really commuted a lot of people with the death penalty. It was horrific what Nadal Hassan did. And it impacted a lot of us because of the telematar. I had to go to Ford Hood because I was in Washington, DC in a one year program with him in Bethesda, in Bethesda, Maryland.

19:54And so I got to know Nadal very well. In fact, I live with a lot of guilt with it because I defended him and his ideology to people in the class. And we all saw it. We all knew that he was radicalizing. I mean, you've heard a lot of the stories about his talks, which are accurate. Right. The stuff that was said. Him being able to come to class in his in his attire is accurate. That that did happen. He talked throughout the class. I mean, he was a psychiatrist and he really laid out on a timeline in a very veiled way, kind of a third person way. I mean, the one thing about him, he was smart, but he was, you know, he was radicalized. One of my classmates at the time, a good friend turned to me and said, Mark, within five years, he's working to see him on CNN. He's going to went postal. Talk about like foreshadowing of it, right? Mark, do me a favor. I'm right up against the break.

20:54It's a hard break. I can't hold you over. I've got an interview coming up. I'm going to put you on hold. I'd love to talk to you more about this tomorrow or maybe early next week. I'm going to put you on hold. CJ, do me a favor. Grab Mark's information. And we'll call him back. I'd like to, I'd certainly like to delve into that more. I remember when these shooting happened that people suddenly were saying, well, people wanted to call him out because of his possible radicalization. And also the things that he was saying, but they were afraid to be called Islamophobic by not allowing him to stay in there. I want to see if Mark is right about that or if Mark agrees with that. CJ, grab a line to let's get Mark's info. We'll get him back on the program. Got to hit a break here. Jennifer Koffendapher, formerly of the FBI on Info on Guthrie. Keep it here. Don't be an A-Dub. Stay with the Joe Bad Show. Fall tastes better with better ingredients from Whole Foods Market. No added growth hormones are antibiotics in their meat department. Means slow braised short ribs are even more satisfying. All-See food is well caught like their vibrant sockeye salmon or verified responsibly farmed.

21:56And all sweets, including fall-themed cookies, are made without high-fructose corn syrup. Spice up fall at Whole Foods Market. I got on my show prep yesterday that a former FBI agent says she received a bunch of ransom emails back in April. I'm like, oh, who's this? I looked it up. It's my friend Jennifer Koffendapher. Jennifer is now with us. News, nation law and justice contribute a great friend of ours, retired FBI, special agent and host of breaking the case with Jen Koffendapher FBI. Jen Koffendapher, FBI. I'm doing great. How are you, Joe Pigs? I thought I was in the circle. How did I not get enough? Find this out. It's very interesting finding it out yesterday in my show prep because it now makes a lot of sense. You have been certainly in the know. You didn't give out more information than you should have. But you also were carefully critical of some outlets that were putting that information in from the beginning. I'm not sure if you're going to be able to find it out. I'm not sure if you're going to find it out. I'm not sure if you're going to find it out.

23:21I don't know who's except for personal friends and things. That was a little unsettling that somebody did their prep. But I could tell this was more of a professional group that targeted me based on then finding my email based on my name that was used, which isn't. I never used my full name. In fact, legally took away my middle name. When you have a name like Jennifer Koffendapher, there's no room in the spaces for your middle name. You can't have no name. You start getting emails. Do you immediately think to yourself, these people are involved. Do you think it was really the people involved in the disappearance of Nancy Guthrie? I didn't because of the date. April 10th, it was just too far down the line, Joe Pags. And I really felt she was most likely deceased by that point. So what do you do with them? I know that you still have many contacts in the agency. Do you immediately just take it up that level here? Let's elevate this to the FBI and see what they think.

24:21And when you get an email like that, second part of the question, do you respond? Do you even hit reply and say anything? So, first question, I immediately contacted the FBI, spoke with an agent for quite a while, and then afforded all those emails onto them. No, I do not reply. You never want to reply to these people. They just kind of keeps just egging on the situation I already had for, and I had all the information I really needed in terms of an IP address, a Bitcoin address, a QR code, pictures of the purported Nancy. And I had never seen them anywhere. And so I knew this was original material. Jennifer Coffin-Daffer, go and check out Break the Case, App Break the Case over on YouTube. It's growing quickly. She's at Coffin-Daffer FBI over on X. So you get it, and you just mentioned a Bitcoin address. Were they asking you for money? Yes. They were asking me for money for the safe return of Nancy Guthrie, and then they sent a photo of her that was AI.

25:26I obviously believe it was very distressed, you know, with her head shaven, her... Well. ...dirty and soiled with a tear coming down her face. A pretty decent AI when I ran it through my AI detectors. They said likely AI, but not 100% AI. So they did a decent job with it. Are these professional ransom getters? Is this what they do for a living? And again, you don't think they had any connection whatsoever with the case. That's correct. I don't think they do. I really believe that these are professional ransom getters. I like how you put that. And likely not even in this country. I think they're very organized. I know of two people who have been hit by this same group. And I don't know of any others. It's Jennifer Coffin-Daffer going to follow her Coffin-Daffer FBI over on X. Let me ask you this. When you start researching something, I'm going to go into your expertise as a forward special agent. And I wonder if you think this is what the FBI did when you elevated it to them.

26:28I know about VPNs. I know about bouncing things around. I know about Torah browsers. Do people like this bounce it around 10, 15, 20 different places so you can't possibly know where it started? Or do you have the technology and the expertise to be able to find where the starting IP really was? You really can't. When they use a VPN, you're absolutely in the dark for somebody that doesn't have the tools that's been used. They have the tools that say the FBI has. And then even the FBI who had those first two notes that they haven't been able to trace. If you do it the right way and I've gone through the recipe before, it's very difficult to find the originator. Do you know if the Bitcoin address they were giving you was the same exact Bitcoin address TMZ was getting? I do not. I did make sure that it didn't match the first two notes or the TMZ received one note. And I made sure that it didn't match that note because that is who I believe were the true kidnappers.

27:31But I call them the TMZ 12, all those other notes. I don't know. I need to reach out to be honest with you. I only reached out when I got the first one to make sure it wasn't from one of the first two notes. So these people are trying to get some ransom money. You don't think that they're involved. So what happened to her? Jennifer, what the heck happened to this human being that disappeared? I think that you and I have talked about this a lot. It's pretty clear to you that if she were alive, we would get some real signs of life, not AI, some real signs of life. So is it your assumption at this point that she's probably dead and that these people really covered their tracks very well? Yes. When you put everything together, Joe Pags, the timeline, the fact she had a serious medical condition, the fact that she was on medication to keep her alive day to day, the amount of time we are out right now, her age, when you added all together, it would not make much sense that she would still be in the living, unfortunately. Well, we talk about the medication. I think you and I have talked about this before, but I want to visit it again. If it weren't inside job, and at one point we were going, I don't know, nobody's really excluded yet.

28:34If it weren't inside job, they would know about her medication and probably take it, wouldn't they? Is that sort of a guy who would tolerate people close to her? 100%. I believe that now, now that we have all these details, I don't think it's going to be anyone close in the close inner circle for somebody much further out. Did you think we'd be in October and still not know? My six month mark was the mark that I really thought we would know when I base an investigation on everything that needed to be done. I really thought that would be sort of the magic mark for getting DNA results back for getting the investigation done on those videos, for all of the, everything they did to do their interviewing and the neighborhood canvases we call them. So I was surprised when by the six month mark we didn't have anything, and now that we're at the eight month mark, now I'm really concerned. Breaking the case podcast, go and check her out at Jennifer Coffingduff for Forward Special Agent with the FBI, great friend of ours, and also a contributor of a news nation.

29:38Let me ask you about the porch guy. Who, as we sit here today on October 8th, who do you think the porch guy was? Was he the mastermind? Was he just a henchman? Was he somebody who really did plan this whole thing? Because I know that I think you and I've talked about he made more than one visit to the porch or to that area. Who do you think porch guy is? I really think he's what we called in the FBI a moat. The moat is sort of the loaf hanging fruit that's doing the dirty work, and that's who I think he is. He is somebody that is the one that you know, abducted her. I do think more than one person wasn't involved. Look, when you look, you can see the antenna hanging out of his pocket. I really think there's more than one person involved. So you think somebody was either in a car or down the street or somewhere giving him instructions on what to do? Now I'm really instructions on what to do, but just communicating with on, you know, when he exited the front porch with her and bringing the car around, and just things like that.

30:38I really think there's he's not the lone perpetrator and also judging by the first two ransom notes, which I do believe are authentically from the kidnappers. I just don't think the FBI is that cruel to put the family through something like that if they didn't believe in those notes. By the way, the first two you're talking about, the ones that went to TMZ, not the ones that went to you. Well, actually only one went to TMZ. So there were two notes. There were the day after there were three notes set, two to local media outlets and one to TMZ. And then five days later, there was the apology note, I call it, that was sent to the local outlets, not to TMZ. And then TMZ 12 after that got all these fake ransom notes like I received just trying to get money. Do you think TMZ hurt the investigation? I like Harvey Levin, he seems like a fine guy and it's a pretty good outlet. Do you think they hurt the investigation by being so open about it?

31:38You know, I don't think hurt, but I'm just telling you, as a special agent with the FBI for all those years, I would have just been cringing that any of that got out. I really would have been. Just come on, let's please just keep this quiet so we can do our investigation. So, you know, that's the hard part now that I'm more on the media side, the side of the camera. Yeah. You know, I want to get the information out to the public just like with these notes. So for instance, that nobody else is victimized that might possibly pay. Somebody might believe that photo and actually send in a Bitcoin. I mean, a Bitcoin is only worth about, I don't know today, maybe $40,000, not that that's chunk change. It's not like it's millions they're asking for. So, you know, really, so I see his point in doing it, but as an FBI agent, I don't like it. Do you feel sure that this was only about money? Is there any way this is still maybe a grievance that we don't even know about yet?

32:40Or do you think this is purely, this is the mother of a famous person I want some money? Occam's razor, money, money, money, money. The note was addressed to Savannah specifically. She's the one with the money. It requested Bitcoin. I would love to know if they had invested in Bitcoin. A lot of people do. So, I think it was very targeted for money. How do you think we're going to get a resolution here? I think the sheriff in Pima County is horrible. I think that he certainly hurt the investigation. We talked about that many, many times. How does this thing end up coming to a conclusion somehow? We often say we want closure, but if somebody did this to my mother, it wouldn't really even be closure. I would just want to know, but I still be very angry. How does this thing come to some sort of a solution? A couple of things. One, an acute situation. In other words, somebody comes forward and they say, oh my gosh, I know who porch guy is. This is him. It's actually a good clean tip. It leads to porch guys. So that's an acute resolution. The other resolution that I could see happening is from all these things.

33:43I think it's just taking them forever to go through it because it's dark. And they have to go through all these choke points. I still am flummoxed that we have such a small window of time. And they have not identified a car, at least that we know about. But that's the other avenue. And then we have the DNA that is a possibility. You know, we looked closely, slowed everything down frame by frame. And we found that this was just a couple of days ago, a whole porch guys glove. So I'm excited about that. Maybe he did lead DNA. Really? There was a hole in his glove that we have known about for all these months. That's crazy. So there is still new information coming in. They're still actively investigating it. It is not yet what we would call a cold case. It is not a cold case. They are still, they have so many tips, so many leads, so much to follow up on. You know, no, it's not cold. It's just cold when you think of having an actual pointer. And I want to be clear, the hole in the glove was something that we did.

34:44Myself and my team slowed down frame by frame to look. So law enforcement hasn't said that. I'm saying that. And you can say it with with surety. I can hear it in your voice. It's Jennifer Kaufendaffer going check out breaking the case. The podcast over on YouTube. Follow her over on X as well. I'd be kind of dumb in what I do if I don't ask you about a couple of other very, very current cases. Well, I have you if you don't mind. I want to start with Lindsey Clancy. Is this ever been a defense that you've heard this postpartum psychosis where a man's voice tells you kill your three kids knowingly kill them. Send your husband on a goose chase and then jump out the window. Are you on the side of the people who think that she's not guilty somehow? I am on the side of the people that believe she's guilty because she is guilty. Okay. In my opinion, I admitted that she did it. So, you know, we know she did it. She's responsible criminally in my view because I'm not buying the postpartum psychosis. And this is why I'm not buying it because she planned it.

35:45She sent her husband out. She did very specific details. In other words, most people commit crimes like this. They grab a gun. You know, they use their hands. She used three different exercise bands. This was something that I truly think she could have even practiced before. So, nevertheless, I do not think she was out of her mind at all. As somebody who used to be in the FBI and somebody with a brain like yours, can you help me to understand? I'm pretty logical. Why would 11 jurors want to find her not guilty? And they're ruining the life they're trying to anyway. Of the one guy who said, no, she's guilty. I saw the evidence. There is no reasonable doubt here. Can you figure out the psychosis of something that's the psychosis? The psychology of somebody who's sitting on a jury saying, we got to let her go. I know she killed the three kids violently, but we got to let her go. Well, I'll tell you what. This was a pure example in my opinion of a jury nullification situation. These women all got together and they did their work their magic to course,

36:48the other members, talking about specifically. And they came out and public and said this. This is a way bigger issue for them. They believe that women are not getting the treatment they need, especially postpartum and that these are very serious issues. And so they were really making an example of this case, Joe Pags. That is what happened. And that's why that jury came together in my opinion. But you know, we've all lived through Susan Smith. We've all lived through Andrea Yates. We've all lived through these cases where we said these people, they killed their children because they wanted to. Yates is a different story than Smith who is just trying to run away with her boyfriend or something. But at the end of the day, a mother killing her children in the most violent way that we're hearing in this case. And then somehow sending her husband off texting him while he's out, calling him while he's out. Take your time. I mean, it's crazy to me that anybody would say this is us standing up for women. I've got nothing but women in my life. Five daughters. I've got a wife. I've got a mother. I've got sisters. You know what I mean? I would not stand up for them if they killed their children. It doesn't make sense.

37:48It doesn't make any sense. And Andrea Yates was such a different situation. Remember, she was convicted the first go around. Yes. She wasn't convicted the second go around. Basically, she was found insane. But Andrea Yates from a very young age had suffered from serious psychological problems. She was schizophrenic. She had all sorts of problems with things like bulimia, bipolar. She was a hot mess. That was not the situation with Lindsey Clancy. Lindsey Clancy was depressed. She was upset about having all of these children. She had to go back to work. And I think she absolutely planned this to get out of her situation. What do you make of the attorney trying to act like somehow? The one juror was the bad guy and trying to nullify his vote and bring it an alternate to give the 12 vote that he wanted. I mean, after the fact, which can't happen. But what do you think about his tactics? Joe Pags is that is something I've never seen. Yeah. You never seen an attorney. They have certain oaths that they have that they have to hold up to.

38:51And he completely disgraced them all when he came out publicly and put the finger on it being a male juror when there were only three. And went after him with a vengeance. And it's terrible. He continues to do it. He's pulled back a little bit because I think he's worried about a bar complaint. But what he did to that juror was nothing short of the initial steps to docs. Well, do you think they'll prosecute the case again? They're going to bring another case? I think they should obviously. They sound like they're going to Joe Pags. You know, when you listen to these prosecutors, I obviously think they definitely should. I've also seen a little bit of a paradigm shift now that more of the information is coming out. And I really think it's possible they could get a conviction possibly. Jennifer Kaufendaffer go and follow her. Kaufendaffer FBI over on X and go check out Breaking the Case over on YouTube. An amazing podcast. We're back after the stay right here.

39:51This is the Joe Pags show. Fall tastes better with better ingredients from Whole Foods Market. No added growth hormones are antibiotics in their meat department. Means slow braised short ribs are even more satisfying. All-seed food is well caught like their vibrant sockeye salmon or verified responsibly farmed. And all sweets, including fall-themed cookies, are made without high-fructose corn syrup. Spice up fall at Whole Foods Market. I appreciate Jennifer coming on. We'll post that later on tonight on YouTube, JoePags.com slash YouTube. Amazing that she had contact from people who were trying to make ransom money. People she assumes as a former special agent she would know are not at all involved in the kidnapping of Nancy Guthrie, the abduction of Nancy Guthrie.

40:52It doesn't look like it's going to be a happy ending to this, to be honest with you. I can't believe it's taken this long. We still don't have the answers. Probably if you had a better sheriff in Pima County, Arizona, you might have had some interest by now. We'll stay on that case as we always do. Plus some other stuff with Kaufendaffer will be posting over on YouTube that he did not have a time to air during that interview. Another big hour coming your way. Keep it here. This is the Joe Pags show. LinkedIn is pretty amazing at helping you grow your small business. We cannot stop your new clients from emailing you at 3 a.m. We can help you sell, market, and hire in one place. We cannot help you be in three places at once. And while we can't help you organize your calendar, LinkedIn can help you land more clients so you have a calendar to organize. Grow your small business on LinkedIn. Learn more at LinkedIn.com slash small business.

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