Of Miracles & Monsters - The Paranormal 60

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2:04Heidi Hollis has spent decades investigating the unexplained. Shadow people, the hat man, UFOs, strange entities, and encounters she believes reach into the divine. But while she was searching for answers to mystery surrounding her, another mystery had been quietly waiting, much closer to home. A series of unusual medical discoveries would eventually force Heidi to reconsider experiences stretching back across her lifetime and lead experts from the worlds of science, medicine, and faith to examine evidence. She never knew she carried. Tonight the investigator becomes the mystery. Her new book, The Enomalies, A True Story of Medical Mysteries, Jesus Encounters, and Stigmata is the topic for our one. Our guest will be here all night and in our two we will dive into the realm of shadow people. Origins. We'll talk about that a little later. But right now the paranormal 360 is very happy to welcome to the program on the John Schuster Coldwell Banker Hotline, our guest Heidi Hollis.

3:04Heidi, it is a delight to see you again. Thank you for being on the show. Oh, this has been a long time coming to speak with you again. Pleasures all mine truly. Our two we're going to delve into the realm of shadow people and kind of the darker elements of this. I was really excited to see your new book looks at kind of a lighter, different take on things and to know that this is something that has been specific to you is really an important element of this. And I wanted to start off with that. I mean, I've known you a long time. I know that you are a religious person by nature. I know that you've had a lot of encounters on many different levels of the supernatural. I've referred people to you that have dealt with different elements, seeking help and answers and you've always been forthcoming and helpful. So I appreciate that. But this book, this is a lot more personal. Yeah, truth was it hard to let that part of who you are and this story come forward? Oh my gosh. This has been the biggest challenge, honestly.

4:05And it's it's something I was honestly very reluctant to step forward on. I've spent the last five years aiming to disprove everything that was told to me. Essentially, by a Vatican scholar who I did not know was Vatican. I thought they were a religion scholar I was just to be working with. So being met with such a claim, like you said, I'm very faith-based. You know, I used to say I'm spiritual. I'm like, no, I'm Christian. And I think people need to start saying that instead of, you know, getting this cover all of spiritual only, you know, I'm like, I used to be that way. And truth be told, I know that Christ is real. And I've always known it from the beginning of everything that I've done in the face of naming and defining and warning people about shadow people and the hat man. So, I think where we're at in the world and I may be off on this is,

5:08and I certainly refer to myself as a Christian, but I'm spiritually centered, is there is such a strange connotation. Like even just hearing you mention, oh, I've always believed in Jesus. I know that there are two people that just tuned out, which has changed me because they will listen about bigfoot. They will listen about alien abductions, demons, ghosts, but you evoked the name Jesus and they tune out. Like that doesn't have a place in the paranormal. It's so strange to me because it is the ultimate shield for me to bus in the paranormal field. And I've had many a, um, atheist reach out to me in their moment of need. I don't do this. I don't believe in prayer, but I don't know what else to do. Can you pray for me? Can you do this? Can you find somebody that can help me rid myself of this darkness? So it's always interesting, right? The old saying is true. Everybody's an atheist till they're in the foxhole. Right. And then I'm willing to believe. Get me some help. Right. You have dealt with medical issues, yes?

6:10And, and strange anomalies. Do you believe that you became targeted because of your work and trying to expose the dark side of what's going on? No. Honestly, I never, never quite felt like that. Only with, with the timing sometimes, you know, when things would happen. Like just about to do something in the van, you know, I'd get something odd. No, for, um, myself, I've always stated this from the beginning of everything that I've been involved with that I recall before I was born. It wasn't through hypnosis or me trying to figure this out or anything like that. I was in college walking through my living room, talking to my college roommate and boom. I'm seeing this spinning sun in the middle of space. And I absolutely seeing myself as a soul within this spinning sun that I knew it had a name. It had a name called the source. Never heard of this before. You know, this is way back when. And, uh, remembering to agree to be born here.

7:13So I end to do exactly what I'm doing. Coming forward and naming these, these demons, how to approach them, how they're connected to the whole alien conversation, this interdimensional talk. So it's something that I knew I was, I came here to do. Now, getting met with some of the oddities that I did physically, medically. In fact, it was that memory that held me tight because in having my Jesus and car's at the same time back then, especially during college, that I was, I was steadfast in knowing that I'm here for a purpose. Whatever this stuff is, it's coming up. It's, it's just to the side of me, you know, I know what I'm here for. I'm, I'm going to have challenges like anybody else. And I just kind of moved on with it. But when I was met with some of the more major situations, I was like, you know, what? It's still that held me, that really did hold me because, you know, it's, it's, it's a,

8:16interesting place to be in when you're so certain about your destiny and what you're here for. So, yeah, you know, I, I was good with it, but I always knew there was a meaning to it. I sought the meaning, but I could find it, but it wasn't until I kept getting new ones that, I was like, okay, come on, give me a break. I'm in the medical field. I'm an occupational therapist. Nothing falls in the place with what I'm familiar with. And like, this is, you know, I went for a genetic testing and like, come on, you know, this has to be something. Went to a top place to get my, my DNA tested. And when I say Dave that they acted so strangely when I try to retrieve my information, I still don't have it since 2017. Everybody's like, well, that's illegal. Well, why know that? But what am I going to do? You know, it didn't cause me medical harm, but when I was talking to these people, when I say I'd never spoke to a physician who was absolutely terrified,

9:17stuttering. It didn't want to tell me anything that they'd found. And it wasn't until much later that I was met with a CIA scientist who told me, oh, they found something, but they're not going to release it. So I've had just so many things, so many mysteries upon mysteries, Dave, that brought me full circle and having to realize that I know that everything has a reason to happen. But I never thought that I would be the outright mystery to all that. You know, and that's, I mean, that's a very deep prospect. What we're talking about and what you uncovered or tried to uncover, you know, for the rest of us. I mean, you seem very, just kind of, I don't want to say passive, but you're just like, well, they're not telling me it's weird. What can I do? You know, there's one element of it that it seems like, my gosh, I would be raged that they are not giving me the information.

10:19What is it that they've uncovered? And we're going to go into our first break. When we come back, what led you to start going in for these tests? What led you to start seeking answers? And especially going into even the DNA element of it. Now, I'm somebody who's done ancestry and 23 in me and I've located family members. I never knew existed and I knew that was the purpose for why I did it. Yeah. But I'd like to know from your perspective, what led you to these points? It was the stacking of the diagnoses I was getting that just didn't make any sense. And then I got a really horrific one that no one could answer. And this is what my doctor had told me. I was trying to understand why I started having these odd little blackouts. Didn't know what was going on. Go to a physician. I, first of all, was ER and all of these urgent situations, only to find out. It looked like I had been nearly choked to death. And it sounds a-hide. I'm like, well, just somebody choked you.

11:20Well, no. I think I'd be at the police station to dislocate my highway bone. So it was hitting my credit arteries, making me have these little blackouts. I'm like, wow. What gives? This is so rare, so unheard of. It was like, okay, perhaps I have something called EDS, Elyrs-Danlos. That's like stretchy tendons and ligaments and things of that nature to make something like that happen. I didn't have any of that. I didn't have any sign of that. I did get that bit of information. But yeah, and one thing I want to address too, you mentioned being so casual, if there was anything I've ever received static about over the years and speaking about demons and the devil himself, gosh, you're so casual and laid back, you're talking about the most horrific things. I think having a sense of humor has gone a long way. So I'm a cartoonist. And also having been raised in a haunted house,

12:21always having a deal with something that I wouldn't know what it's like to not have some kind of challenge. And I was sick as a kid. It's severe seizures. There was always something going on. So I just kind of learned to roll with the punches. And I have to say, talking about this subject, is still so very new for me, Dave. I'm like, I've held back for several years. I wasn't posting on social media. I really was dig a deep. I felt like I couldn't be really honest to say what I'm up to these days. Why haven't you written a book? I'm dealing with something right now. I was just told I have something astronomically odd that I don't even know how to interpret it for myself, let alone tell somebody else. So it's been a very long and agonizing process for myself. And nothing like that. That's why I asked earlier in the first segment, do you feel that you're working trying to out the darkness and confront demons and creatures of the night?

13:22This has marked you or made you vulnerable. And people seem to want to point that finger quite often. Right? I've listened. I bought a haunted hotel in December. Since then, I've had three falls, tumbles. I've been heard a few times. Everybody's so quick to jump to, Dave, the ghosts, the demons. This and I'm like, or I was walking on ice in Minnesota, in the winter, and I slipped. Right. Or I also walk like a duck. And I was going down a flight of stairs. And I just stepped wrong and fell down a flight of stairs. It doesn't always have to be something dark, demonic, evil that that's got it in for us. But I would, I would have assumed dealing with what you're dealing with, that would be kind of niggling at the back of your brain. That, oh, is something messing with me? Were you surprised to find that maybe there was more divinity behind this, not darkness? You know, I always felt rather protected, because I had these Jesus encounters when I was in college. So I, I know I was okay. And I knew it, it's, it sounds so odd,

14:23but it deep inside me, I knew somehow it's going to find these answers. And it would give me, and as odd as this sounds, it would give me an answer to who and whatever I was. I always had that inkling. It was odd. It was so odd. And I've written about it in books. And, and also in my very first book, the alien being that I had a lot of interaction with said, I was made different. Now, I surely didn't know what they're talking about. But they gave me one word, and my word was timing. I was like, well, what does that mean? Well, just timing and how we help to make sure that you would be formed properly. And I say alien being just because it wasn't human, but this was a being that spoke of manners of the soul, that spoke of Christ being the ruler of all, and how they didn't do anything without his commands. So, yeah, it didn't look human, but it spoke of Christ and actually wondered why I wasn't praying so much anymore. I'm like, well, I'm in college, I'm busy.

15:24You know, I'm not going to church. You know, it was a really a strange thing. And my sophomore, my college roommate, were met with this being together. And who really just flipped things around for us? Now, when you say you're encountering this being, is this something that's being done in physical human form? Like, Dave and Heidi are sitting at the table having dinner in this being approaches? Or is this more of a, an ethereal, more of a dream visitation? How would you explain it? Initially, it came for my college roommate, Samantha. There were a couple of beings that one was like a gelatinous, like sparkly sea through being. That was very physical. Jumped on the hood of her car while she was driving through downtown Milwaukee. And started speaking to her and relaying to her how they were there to introduce who's to come next. And that was this other being who essentially started communicating through my friend, but also appeared.

16:24They said it was a form of technology. We're sitting in my car and this being. Oh, one second, Heidi. I need to back up for just a second because, again, you feel called, you feel like some things trying to get through to you. I would guess, I'm just throwing it out there. In the angel guardian angel book 101, the way to get attention of the human that I'm set up with is not to jump on the hood of their car while they're driving. Right. Yeah. Looking like a gelatinous sparkle being. That seems counterproductive to let me introduce myself. Right. That would be like somewhere else, but that seems like it would put you in danger as well. How the heck did she not zip off the road and end up wrapped around a telephone pole? That's the first thing I asked her. I said, what do you mean? I'm like, how did you not have a car accident driving through downtown Milwaukee? I absolutely. First thing I asked her and she said, Heidi, it was really odd. I had a very calming and peaceful feeling to it. And I was totally at ease. And I felt like I could easily ask it questions. So it was some conversation piece, trust me.

17:29But there's so much to the story. I mean, I've spoken about this so much over the years. And there's so many different chapters to this whole thing. But yeah, she was somebody who was penicostal, super religious. Don't talk to me about anything weird. Those are all demons. So for her to even speak to me about anything odd happening, it was totally something that changed a lot for both of us to have this realization that this being is real, especially when it projected an image of itself. And yeah, very physical. I did see it. Look like a small child. Fleshy pinky color with more rounded features, smiling. Very pleasant. Like they're going to crack a joke at any moment. Like that kind of a feel. So yeah, it was a real thing that we experienced. We've got one minute left in the segment. So it'll be a quick little question on this. Do you now look at this being as being something alien in nature,

18:30meaning from out there, outer space, or alien in nature from out there, the heavens, like an angelic being. Can you? It's actions were more angelic and it was interdimensional, but also could manifest to be very solid. And it never once did you get the sense of a dread of fear that you were in any kind of danger? No, in fact, it taught us how to keep the more negative beings away and how to teach others and also explained about shadow people, hat man, all of the beginnings of where these things come from and why they're here. I have no meat to study this. It came to us. We're going to take a break. We'll come back. We've got more with Heidi Hollis. I have a link for Heidi on today's program guide. You can also find her at HeidiHallis.com. There are moments that define who you are and who you're becoming. And when those moments arrive, what you drive should rise to meet them. The Range Rover Sport commands attention from the very first glance.

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21:31DJs. Sugars. To kill the tastings and non-stop action. The light up reveals coming soon. Cabins are disappearing fast and the prices won't stay this low. Reserve your spot with just $200 down at BKF-SEA.com. I'm Dave Schrader, your host, Heidi Hollis. My guest tonight, we're discussing her book. And it's a brand new book. We'll have a link up for it on today's program guide as well. The anomalies, a true story of medical mysteries, Jesus encounters, and stigma. Now, you said, Heidi, that you began having Jesus encounters. How old were you when that happened? And how certain were you that what you were speaking to was the Christ? You know, first I have to say, I was in college, so college years. I was such a skeptic of such things. But as at the time people were saying, oh, he's in my piece of toast or in this tree trunk. And I thought it was the most ridiculous thing. I, in fact, said that in my first book, The Secret War.

22:34And I'm like, you know, come on, give me a break. I said, if Jesus were around, I think I would have seen him by now. Like I literally dedicated nearly a full chapter, bashing the idea that he could do that. Because I'd seen Angelic beans. I'd seen Ali being seen ghostly and demonic. I'm like, obviously people are mistaken. One of these beings for Christ. So I was hugely skeptical. Was it going to church? Was it praying? You know, I believe God was real. I thought Jesus was more of a historical figure. I didn't put a whole lot of weight into him showing up any top suit. So for me to have had the encounter that I did, first off, it changed everything for me. You know, people think I'm just this, you know, UFO, you know, paranormal person. No. Only reason I have the guts to do anything that I do is because he did show up that first time. And I get that question a lot like, well, did you, did you test the spirits? I'm like, I tell people, you know, I kind of been blind and see it was him because every cell in my body screamed.

23:36It's Jesus. So I'm like, and my college friends, you know, I took great pride in picking on them, going to bed early on a Saturday night to get up to go to church on a Sunday while you're in college. No. And I'm like, I like to tell people was, Jesus, no joke. He's real. He's real. Oh my gosh, you know, and my friends were like, something must have happened to you because they surely I wasn't talking that way. I had to rewrite that chapter and have booked too. And I put that first encounter in there. And I wrote this book, the first book on Shadow People and the whole conflict with these alien beings in 1997. It took me to 2001 to finally find a publisher. It was horrific. But I had extended around a lot of people in the field trying to, you know, would you publish this? Will you put it? You know, I'm in college. I didn't know how to get this thing out there. So yeah, a lot of legwork were there to it. But the only reason I could do any of this, again, the first time that I saw Jesus, he told me something.

24:37He said, do not worry what other people say. Know that I'll be there to give you the words because he told me I need to finish writing my book. What was already written, but I was just editing it trying to find a publisher. And so I gave up grades in college because I hated public speaking. I would give up the grade. And I'm a therapist, very difficult program. And if you didn't have straight A's, you're going to be dropped from the program. And I didn't care. I did not do a presentation. So even to this day when Jesus, which Jesus had told me, I tell him I'm like, you promised me to give me the words and I'm holding you to it. Because I have nothing to say. I'm always looking for the exit at every conference I'm speaking at. I mean, I would not speak about this had he not said those words. So yeah, he gave me the courage and they changed everything. And that was the first time I'd seen him. Who would expect you to come back again? But I mean, I said here in goosebumps right now, I have no doubts. I have no doubts.

25:38Yeah. Did you ever at any point have a doubt? Did you ever as a therapist think, you know, there are medical conditions that could bring on or in, in, in boost these feelings of euphoria and religious elements? Did you ever get checked for any of that? No, no, I don't, I don't have any signs of, or symptoms of anything. Never had an anxiety or panic attacks. I just didn't do public speaking. And I didn't freak out. I just stopped. I just didn't do it. I meant more in the sign of seeing Jesus, dealing having these moments. And when you, when you have these encounters, are they brief or are they, I mean, are you talking to Jesus for an hour? Don't get us. I don't know how people write books like full chapters. Jesus said, blah, blah, blah, blah. I'm like, well, you have a whole heck of a lot to say to me. He chatted a couple of, you know, a few moments. But if anything, what would be projected is his whole emotion. And, and a whole lot comes with that, you know,

26:41without words, without words. And they're rather brief, I would say, rather brief. And it's not like he's been around a whole heck of a lot. Last time I seen him was, oh gosh, that was about 10 years ago. So it's been a while. You know, so you think that's because you're on the track. You're doing things that, that you've been encouraged from the other side to do. So therefore, there's no need to intercede. There's no need to do that. At least in front of you, it's all being done in the spiritual realm. I had of you and behind you. You know, I really wish I knew, Dave. I guess so. You know, I'm like, I should be grateful and faithful for the times that I got to see him, of course. But when I got presented with this huge challenge of, quote, stigmata, you know, I was calling out to the heavens going, really, what is, is, you know, what, now for listeners that maybe weren't raised in any kind of religious background, or at least not Catholic and stigmata may not be a term that they understand,

27:44not to be confused with stigmatized, which, you know, you commit a murder in a home that houses now stigmatized. It carries this, this mental scar, if you will. But stigmata is something different. And it is directly correlated with, with Jesus and the wounds of the cross, if I understand. Yeah, I was it raised Catholic when it was told to me, I just kind of froze and I'm like, I saw the horror movie. It was a bloody mess. I'm like, what are we talking about here? Essentially what I was told, I thought I was supposed to be working on a book project and a couple of television series with this religion scholar who upon meeting me, knew about my medical anomalies. And that's another long story how that came to be. And after they learned about them, invited me to go work with them. So I did. And pretty much upon it being introduced,

28:46shaking my hand, looking deep in my eyes, saying, Heidi, you have a level of stigmata that we haven't seen since the first one, St. Francis of a CC. And I'm like, what? You know, where are we going with this? I don't understand. You know, saw the horror movie. I said, I'm like, what is, what are we talking about? I was familiar with it to an extent, but, you know, I'm a Methodist. So I'm like, okay, you know, let's carry on with another conversation. But it kept being brought up and brought up to the point where I was. What were they being? Because obviously, you know, in the movies and in TV shows, you get these cross marks across your forehead, like little, where the crown of thorns would have been. Your hands in the palms, there would be these bloody wounds or open wounds on the palm denoting the crucifixion, which also kind of conflicts. Because we know that that wouldn't have been possible.

29:48It wasn't actually crucified through the palms, right? It was through the wrists. But yet the palm seems to be the focal point for these injuries. Were you developing these actual injuries? Yeah, I know I've been skipping around on some of the different topics. It's so hard to squeeze it all in to make it always make sense, especially, you know, speaking on this. To back it up a little bit, I was met with someone who was familiar with the topic of something called synesthesia. So, turned out, I have a lot of synesthesia. And synesthesia is essentially the crossing of the different senses in the brain. So, if you've ever seen the old television series, heroes, you know, somebody hears music and they see colors in the air, it's that. It's this crossing. And I was found to have a lot of it. And I couldn't help but to mention, I'm like, I wonder if that's because I have a lot of physical anomalies that I can't make any sense of. I can't get answers about my genetics and pass it on to the synesthesia person who introduced me to this religion scholar who has these different anomalies.

30:51And I'll go through some of those now about what they were. And they are predominantly things that I was born with. So, the main one is having, and all these things have diagnoses. So, why would I think this is anything, you know, mystical? So, something that's called a bilateral interacias ganglion cysts inside the lune of my bone risk, okay? So, it's rare. There's like three others in the world. And they look like a bullet hole going through the bone in my wrist. But I'm like being logical. Well, how many people have had their wrist x-ray, you know? I'm like, so, you know, moving on, okay, it's rare, but again. Then I was also told I have something that's also kind of odd. I have bilateral both sides. My kneecaps are split. They've never fully formed. And there are different forms of that. People generally get them, usually in guys.

31:53I think it's like 2% of women will get it. And it's usually in one knee. Well, I got it in both. And I've got a form that there's three different types, okay, where your knee can be split. Mine is a type that is not. It's a medial bipart patela is what it's called. Usually it's in a different spot. So, why I have that? I don't know. It's really strange. And astronomical, I think there's only a couple others that have been reported in the world. And to have, I don't know about one of them to be exactly that, but I know the other one is. And then to have something called congenital morphia and koo desovers. Weird name. But essentially, I was born with a cut, you know, like we're talking Harry Potter almost looking, but it's a straight cut above my eyebrow. I always thought I'm baby number eight. My mother probably let me fall and, you know, cut my, oh well, you know, it'll heal. That's what I'm thinking, you know, but it turns out to be this super rare thing

32:54that there's only 25 others reported in the world. It could be an understatement. How many people get diagnosed with that? So, there's so many different things we're stacking on and on. I have a loose rib between the fifth and sixth rib. It's a whole lot of stuff. I have over 50 anomalies that don't make any sense to have. And when I've spoken to now a couple of scientists about it, they said it's unheard of. And again, to back it up a little bit, you know, I've got this array. Apparently, it lines up, according to this Vatican scholar, that I learned later was Vatican, that it lines up with what's seen on the shroud of terror. And I don't even know how to, I don't want to make this seem minimal in my reaction.

33:54I understand. Because it was nothing to celebrate like, yay me, you know, I'm like, oh, you know, I've had these encounters with him. And it's like, well, if that's what you're saying, well, these are not mine. These are his. I didn't earn this. You know, this, why tell me this? How does this help with something? And like, if it helps with something, here, take it, make me anonymous, you know. And it was a lot of cloak and dagger, Dave. I have to tell you, it was a lot of cloak and dagger, because I wasn't being given straight answers about things. They obviously knew a lot of things about myself, my family, just a lot of things, a lot of things. And I'm like, who, who am I dealing with here? I thought we're going to be working on projects, but it's, it can clear, I was being essentially studied and. You became the project. I did. And I didn't know that coming. We know of things called genetic memory.

34:55Is there a chance that you come from the lineage of Christ, and therefore you're going to bear some of those scars? Okay, Dave. All right, Dave. Dave. I need these are questions that thanks to Dan Brown, people want to know. That's why I'm going to bring it up. Did you really just come on to fly with that, Dave? Because I'm just, I'm just a bit blown away. This is something that was told to me, okay? And that moment was, it was something that I was told never get my ancestry tested. Don't go to these, these different places, these, these public places, because they're tracing and tracking the bloodline. And so yeah, I know. So I've been in your family, did a crime, of course. You know, and they're like, no, Heidi, they're, they're tracing the bloodline. I'm like, yeah, Crimmel's in the family. You know, I'm cracking a joke. It's like, no, Heidi, the bloodline, Christ's bloodline.

36:00And I'm like, hold on. Now, why would you think I have Christ's bloodline? And then I was asked, well, where's your mother from? I shared, um, farmer Prussia. And said, yeah, that's about the area. I'm like, but it was very blank face of, we already knew this. You know, you're not shalant, right? We're not shalant. And I'm like, it's such a, such a guttural, uh, reaction of a, what a thing to drop on somebody, you know? And it became clear that, um, uh, I was told so many different things, but one in particular, that really just got me to respond in such a, not repulsed, but just, just too much. I was told thousands of people would want to line up just to meet you. Because of what we have and what we understand that you, you are and what you have,

37:02and we're referring to me with, with titles, I don't, I don't, I don't deserve. I didn't earn. And I was hopping out of their truck when they told me this. And I literally, Dave, if I have a supernatural power, I spun in midair and said, well, we can't let that happen. Because, and I said, I can't imagine anybody who's actually met Christ would want to block a hair on his head from being glorified. And then they said, and that was the right answer. I'm like, this is, this is a test, you know, everything seemed to be a test. And, um, I found no, no reason to celebrate. I found no reason to, oh, I don't know. Take it any other way than, if, if this is to help somebody, then great, you know, but for me, I'm, I'm just a volunteer, if anything, because I remember volunteering, agreeing to come here, um, to work on certain things. But everything else is just, I'm just as clueless as the next person.

38:06Long before Shadow people became a worldwide phenomenon, there was a little girl trying to understand why impossible things kept finding her. Heidi Hollis remembers extraordinary visions, mysterious beings, angelic encounters, and following the loss of her mother, haunting presence that entered her life and refused to remain in childhood. Those experiences would eventually put Heidi on a path toward identifying and writing about something millions of people would come to recognize. Shadow people. Obviously, as a little girl, you became targeted by supernatural forces. It would only make sense if there is a bloodline, see through a genetic memory, you would become attractive to the other side because there's something innately different about you than every other human being on earth. So dealing with that now, and I love the fact that you're very humble in this, this is not something as you said, this is not something you celebrate. You're not out, you know, or shaking your fist in the air saying, woohoo, related to Christ, you take this very, um,

39:11seriously, empathetically, and you are learning to absorb this element into who you are, knowing that there's always been something about you. But for the darkness to start bleeding into your realm at such an early age, now with the hindsight being 2020, do you start to see that it all makes sense that you are chosen to explore and answer these questions to help people because of the bloodline and where you've come from? Um, it, you know, wow, so a lot. Yeah. It's, it's, uh, I'll tell you first, like, the bloodline, it was explained to me, it wasn't because Christ had children. It was his siblings, um, that they're talking about the bloodline coming from, um, and as far as taking on this role, it, oh, it is still a lot to take in Dave and I don't want to deny, you know, anything, I do understand better now. It does make more sense.

40:17Um, I, I feel very fortunate and humbled to be in the position to be of help in this way and how I've been able to handle dealing with this, uh, thing that claims to be the devil himself, a hat man, it makes more sense how I haven't had the level of threats that he tends to do to a lot of people that look into, uh, the, these conversations and these experiences as far as shadow people and hat man. Um, but I, I, I do understand it better. I think that these things were coming at me as a kid because I had no understanding of what it was, why things kept coming my, my way, of course, of course, it's when you were most vulnerable to. Yes, I had no, no idea. Um, but I had a standout pretty early to the very first haunted situation that, that occurred and I share this in the book, um, the shadow people book that, uh, it was, my mother had, had passed and I, my two sisters and I,

41:19it was Christmas morning and my future step brother had already, uh, moved in and my, my future stepmother had already moved some items in, uh, to the home and we're playing with our, our new Christmas toys. There's mounds of wrapping paper all over the place. My dad, a future stepmom say, we're going to go wish them other people were Christmas, we're having a ball. We don't care. Uh, you know, have fun. You know, we're, we're having a blast and my stepmother had, uh, an organ that started pounding away by itself. Really, really loud, you know, deep sounds, right? And my sisters and I, we loved old Western movies and, you know, country with, with the automatic plane pianos. And we're like, this is amazing. You know, we crowd around it. We're like, what's the button you push to let this thing play like that? And my little redhead freckled step brother is backing away, freaked out going, it doesn't do that. And it just took, I remember this is the moment of it sinking in going, oh, no, you know, racing, locking ourselves in the

42:22only room that has a lock with just the bathroom and having it, you know, everybody, we're all crowded in there having a moment. Um, had an older sister that was a bit of a bully and shoves me out of the bathroom door and I'm being met with this organ going crazy just across the room in front of me. And I took on the challenge and pulled the cover over it and locked it and stopped it from playing. Um, so I had to, I had to be met with some crazy forces pretty early on. And I, I think it, it exercised that paranormal muscle day because I don't know how else, uh, sometimes I stay calm in the face of things, but you know, this is another thing, Dave, I don't startle. My poor nephews have tried their little hearts out to make auntie Heidi jump and scream, but anything, I don't startle. Um, I'm also not ticklish. I don't, I'm like, what, what is this? And, and I did learn that this is just, uh, some people have that more, more, more analytical approach to things where I just don't,

43:27I don't have that quick response like that. Pretty chill laid back. Um, so I think that just kind of comes with, with a territory too. And it's, it's been a, it's been a lifelong, uh, level of experiences, but I wanted to put that book together to show people like this wasn't just something I just came up with in dealing with the paranormal. It started very young. I was seven years old when it started. And, uh, it just kind of gone from there and I didn't realize I was dealing with shadow people back then. But when I thought back on the different things that happened and something that attacked my step brother, like black with glowing red eyes scratched him all up. Um, yeah, broad day like and, and it's, it's just kind of these things have been after me for a while and it always seemed to be very much targeted. I went from that to Pulitzer Geist activity moving into the dormitory and just everywhere I went, I'm like, who has this crazy bad luck? Well, I don't think it was just bad luck

44:27always. So, Eddie Hollis our guest, I want to talk about shadow people that story, that phenomena, it seems there's different elements to the shadow people encounters. There are some that just see that hazy, dark, faded outline of humanity. There are others that see it deep, dark, rich blackness with red glowing eyes. Others see them wearing what seems to be fancy hats of some sort, whether it's a top ad, a fedora, something along those lines, uh, denoting that that is a different echelon of being. I'd like to hear a little bit more about the definitions and the, the, I guess hierarchy when we return. It's fall in America. Make it count at the Ram Drive into Fall sales event. Make it powerful with our strongest Ram 1500 ever. Make it move with the Ram Heavy Duty with an available Cummins diesel and make it go the distance with a 10 year or 100,000 mile powertrain limited warranty. Hurry and now for great deals during the Ram Drive into Fall sales event.

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47:41And I would like your take on it. Not what you hear Heidi explain, but I would like to know your take. And I say that because Heidi, it's been fascinating over the 20 years that I've vested into trying to understand the supernatural. There are those that were terrified by shadow people that much like alien encounters seem to eventually just accept them. And the fear factor is gone and almost an acceptance. Not that they're happy with the shadow encounters, but it's as though I can't do anything about it. I just they're here. What are some of the elements of a true shadow person? And are there different shades of the shadow? Are there different elements of these beings denoting their dark history? Oh gosh. Um, you know, first I want to say like these were a thing that like you name your teddy bear or something. And I was naming these things shadow people for myself because they would kind of loosely look like a person, but then they'd shape shift and

48:46become like a shadow spider shadow, shadow streak. And I just kind of put these different names and titles together and through the mon line. And the stories just never stop coming in, you know. So it's they are something that can manifest to to look like a lot of different things, but there are their favorite forms and shapes. Like I said, shadow spiders, I have the most of, unfortunately, hate spiders with a passion Dave. I mean, I could feel their little BDIs. I mean, I walk into her room. So these shadow beings knew, oh, this is what's gonna trigger her. So yeah, they could take on different shapes and forms. I had a good friend who hated any kind of rodent and they would look like shadow rodents, you know, shadow mice. And yeah, but then I made a mistake once and I called the hat man another form that shadow people took. And I call him the hat man shadow. And but I hadn't personally experienced him. My college roommate had. And that's just kind of stuck.

49:50And people have always kind of referred to him as being a shadow being. And yeah, he could blend in with the shadows, but he could also step out of the shadows too. And yes, some people do say, you know, they're not so bad. You know, I think they're guardian or, you know, uncomfortable with them now. And I'm like, that wasn't the, that wasn't how it was going in the beginning. There's a lot of terror, a lot of screaming and oh my gosh, what's going on here. But I might like alien encounters, Heidi. Many people that originally felt that they were being abducted, that they were being forcibly taken and tested. Have this, I call it Stockholm syndrome for them. They seem to now become empathetic to these beings. And accepting is though, well, I have no other choice. They must be friendly because they haven't killed me. They're just checking on me. They're testing me. Of you, you hit the nail and head from the first moment that I spoke of shadow people. I always related them to the alien abduction scenarios. They because they are absolutely connected.

50:54People that are abducted see shadow people and vice versa. They have the similar MO. They get you generally at night. They paralyze you. They have their way with you in horrific ways. And then the person starts to grow in affinity. It takes a while, but they grow in affinity to these things. And I had a UFO paranormal discussion group for 15 years that met at a public library and the stories that I heard over the years. Unbelievable. People sleep in with guns and knives under their pillow to say, and I'm going to get on the next time they show up talking about alien beings. And then saying, you know what, they're not so bad. You know, I'm chosen. I'm special. And now that that's that's still continuing out there, this conversation. And that's happening, like you said, with the shadow people, hat man thing. And I've had people saying, I fell in love with hat man. He would cuddle me at night. I'm like, anything that's completely black, absent of light is the word choice. And a glowing red eyes at time or even a wonderful

51:56set of shark teeth. How is that something warm and fuzzy? I really am blown away at the level of deceit that these things are able to pull on people and cause them so much harm. Hey, Heidi, not to put light on it, but cats do the same thing. Oh, you know what? Okay. They're delightful to cuddle. They're sharp teeth, sharp claws, and they will try to kill you at least four times a week. So there is that. But they don't try to take your soul. Now hat man, this, yeah, for you, one of them is known for once he gets really comfortable and understands what you're about to try and try to find your weaknesses. Make you sick, make you have an accident, whatever it is. And people become addicted. And right when you're just like, you know, at your weakest moment, or he scared you so bad, this is when he likes to take his fist and punch it through your chest and pull your soul out. I don't know how many people this has happened to where they didn't come back because I didn't hear from them. I heard from the other people that did get back

53:00and how they're absolutely terrified for their very souls. I mean, and then to have ailing objections also run in a very similar manner. The way the narrative comes in with this, the concept of the hat man. Yeah. Right. You, the horn man, the winged man, the clawed man. Yeah. That sounds terrifying. For a dapper ghost, a dapper element. Why hat? Why, why do you think there's this element that it's wearing some kind of a chepoe and that makes it more hierarchy dangerous? You know, it's interesting because he could be anything he wants. But my understanding is he wants people to recognize and know it was him who did whatever it was. To be recognized around the globe to put that element of terror at such a point, like, I've had people write me who saw him once 40 years ago and it's destroyed their life. They're paranoid about anything that's it. They can't have lights off whatever it is. And then I've had

54:04people who have written me who have had experiences with him almost every night for 40 years. And they're equally as terrified. What kind of being that's recognizable between those two different people that it's a level of of terror and respect that he's getting. He wants to be recognized as the living devil in the world today. In the beginning, I didn't know that he was anything different than another shadow being. It wasn't until, I mean, hundreds, it's not thousands of emails from around the globe. People ask me who is he and then answering in the next line. He's a devil, isn't he? And he will answer you. He will tell you he is. He'll come up with a lot of different terms for it sometimes. But the scenario is that he gives to people to make sure they know who he is. It's just to get in the alien world. There are these beings known as the men in black, dark suited, dark lapses in fedoras. Is this something akin to that?

55:08Actually, kind of, kind of sort of. I was told that the non-human men in black types are a straight up form that shadow people have an easier time to possess in order to control. And it's also important to know right on the main page of my website, HeidiHolest.com. I have an image of hat man and what he looks like straight up without any shadowing going on on his face. And he's known as Aramon. Rudolph Steiner created this sculpture of his face. And I thought somebody had recently just done this and it's my friend sends this to me. What do you think of this image? I'm like, what a great rendition of hat man. Who did this? It's 100 years old. Shadow people, the origin story part one, Heidi Holest is the author of this book. She's an experiencer. We're talking also about the strange alignment between alien encounters and shadow figuring counters with this hat man and the men in black.

56:08Growing up, Heidi, and I don't know if I've ever spoken to you about this. I grew up in a haunted house in Medina, Illinois. It's never been oppressive. It's been alarming. It's been a little weird. I slept in the basement. I do not like light. I like the dark and the darker the better. And as my eyes would adjust, I would see things moving around my room. I never felt as though I was in any danger. I never felt as a matter of fact, I preferred the dark and the night time. Was I, to me, that feels like it would be a different element to this phenomenon because again, humans, we have that innate ability to sense when there's danger and when we're in danger. I've never felt that in these situations. I would feel more in danger when I would just hear footsteps upstairs. When I knew nobody was home, the things lurking about the basement in the room with me almost felt comforting. And I never felt violated. I never, there was never that moment

57:13where I felt it and then walked it back and became used to it. It was, there was always this level of acceptance with me seeing those figures. I've seen them in other places, but I've never had that overwhelming presence of fear. And they've never in any way done something to seem terrifying. Are there different elements? Or is it just the way I'm perceiving a being that I can't fully, especially in low-light settings? Is it not necessarily a true shadow figure, but more of a ghostly image that I'm visualizing in the darkness? I'm just trying to clarify that because there does seem to be shades of gray in the dark. Truly. Yeah. Honestly, I think that there are some ghosts that look solid black like that. But it's so strange because I think we have an understanding of what a person feels like a solar spirit. When you're met with some of these more horrific things that really, really have it

58:14out for you, it's so strange how our souls seem to repel and feel the danger. Like you feel like there's a predator. So maybe you weren't being met with exactly shadow beings. Like for the longest time in the beginning, when I at first started talking about shadow people, I was poo-pooed like, who's this little girl think she is? You know, out here, you know, and I still get a lot of disrespect in that regard. Like, you know, a you trait marked it. Well, yeah, there's a lot of abuse going on out there. You know, the material, you know, the yell at Stan Lee about Spider-Man, some, you know, like what the heck, you know, I didn't know people would think this was something for us, you know, to put out there at the level that they do. But it's really sad when people have painted some of these things to seem docile, you know, to not be something to be worried about or concerned about. And in fact, here's how you conjure them. People have died. People have died. And then they look up where did this come from. And they come to me. How could you encourage

59:18this? You know, I'm like, oh my gosh, what is going on now? You know, so I think there's a level of respect that has be given to the dark and to new things. And no, not everything's a demon or a devil. But I think our good and state tells us what's in front of us more than it does it. So. Right, but you mentioned in the beginning of our conversation in our two here that, you know, some people talk about the main guardians. I've talked about that. I've said I wonder if they're just like, when are we our most vulnerable? When we sleep at night? And how many women specifically, I've spoken to who awaken to see something dark looming over them in their room. They'll see it kind of like, huh? And then roll over and go back to sleep. Which also sounds like alien. Interactions, even in some cases, big foot interactions as though you see them, your brain processes it and then it just stops focusing on that. That's why I've often wondered if there are guardians in those instances because we don't have that innate ability. And I tell people, now Heidi, you wake up and

1:00:22see that over your bed. It's terrifying. Yeah. To me, but you just rolled over and went back to sleep. If you woke up tonight and Dave Schrader standing at the end of your bed, are you going to just look at me go, huh, Dave Schrader, and then roll over and go to sleep. I think the screams begin, the shots start getting fired. So to me, it's always like, why is it, don't hurt my feelings now, but I mean, why isn't it that we see something ethereal, something supernatural? And we seem, I don't even know the word for it complacent to, yeah, it's not a normal reaction. We know ourselves, like, and we take note of, I just rolled over. Has it make sense? You know, so we know we're being manipulated somehow, even if a little bit to just ignore them like that. And I'm like, you know, if something comes like a thief in the night and they wait to fall asleep and then they go, got you now, I'm not feeling really warm and fuzzy about that, you know, and you're paralyzed. It's crazy. And then people

1:01:26like guardian, like what part, you know, I don't understand. Can they handle the name of Jesus? These non-human beings that I first met in college told me, use the name of Christ, they cannot handle his name. If you use his name, you'll know if it's good or bad. And I was also told that these more negative alien beings, like we're looking at reptilians, grays and doing abusive things very similar to shadow people and hat man. And I was told they are possessed beings. They were conquered beings from other places, other dimensions, other planets, whatever it is. And this is what we're dealing with. So possessed alien beings, what a thought, you know. And listen, I can hear eyes rolling from behind my microphone here. As these people are listening in their cars or in the comfort of their own home, perhaps listening on the treadmill at the concepts of this. But think about it for yourself. How many times have you found yourself in a position you should not have been in? And there is this sense of security around you. Even though you know the

1:02:31danger is there, is that a protection for us, you know, something that's innate within us to try to not face the terror of what could be. It's so strange to me. And I never mean to sound dismissive. And I know you and I have traded lines over the years at times where I think you think I'm dismissing the work that you put. And then there's other times I feel like, know what I'm trying to do is really dig down and try to understand why this encounter with the same being is terrifying to person A and a comfort to person B. Why is it that we relate to these things in such diametrically opposed views of it? And is it just because our brain in order to try to not shatter, we just accept the inevitable of whatever this thing is? Some of these people are really vigilant about it too. Like, no, you're not going to talk bad about aliens or these demon things or they're glorified that are, you know, absolutely abusing people to

1:03:34crazy levels, causing them to do self harm and harm to others, but everybody's crazy, but your perspective. I think that people have to have more tolerance and understanding like, I'm glad it didn't harm you, but recognize others have been harmed. It's like a serial killer. Well, he didn't kill you, but he killed somebody else's family member. Can you respect that? And just having a level of respect and understanding, stop attacking because somebody has a different perspective or experience. I think we need to have more tolerance and patience. Agreed. And I also think that, you know, there are elements of the paranormal we warn people about when I tell women, specifically, and this is not picking on women, don't start getting down on your knees to talk to the child ghost that you perceive is there. And then telling them, come home with me. Oh, God, kids, you can, you don't know what you're doing. And as big as your heart is, you're the target that they're looking for. Heidi Hollis, our guest, I will admit there are different elements to the paranormal 20 years in of full research and talking to guests and experiences and scientists and

1:04:39theologians. I still can't make sense of. I'm always looking for those answers. I'm always hoping that somebody's going to kick that door open just a little further for me to slip through. But maybe there's a reason that door doesn't fully swing open because we do need to be more respectful of the things we don't know. We have to be cautious because walking in, thinking you're prepared, calling yourself a demonologist because you've watched the exercise a hundred times and feel like you're prepared to do battle because you've got a couple of prayers on prayer cards. I think we're trying to be protected. We're given enough without fully facing some of these elements. Is that a fair assessment idea? I mean, that's why some of these are fleeting moments for people that door doesn't fully open. We don't get a full acknowledgement of it, but we need to respect that like a cute little wolf, that wolf could turn on you because it's a wild animal. Yeah, you know, I'm concerned with a lot of people who are just trying to feel something other

1:05:44than this loop this life. I don't know if people are so bored that they want to be terrifying anything, anything paranormal to happen, supernatural, whatever it is. I do understand that Heidi. I understand that element. It is this sense of feeling so oppressed by the world that we're in, the things that we see, the terrors and horrors of the world around us and the way we treat one another. Yeah. That I think sometimes we need to feel something beyond, whether it's pain or fear. It's extreme. We need to feel that, right? They say you never feel more alive than when you're facing death. You never feel more alive than when you are confronting a fear. So I think that that's why it happens is people want to feel something and they don't know how to do it anymore. That's true. Like finishing the statement, it's like to feel something that

1:06:44might put you at risk. They'll go that far. They might put themselves at risk. That's the worry I have. And I do get it. I did a Weach Abort in high school. I wanted to experience something. I wanted to see the UFOs. Yeah, I get it. But the level of risk that people put themselves at, that's what I'm concerned with. I can't, I mean, you do know what I'm talking about when I say a lot of people have and then they get something uninvited or they think it didn't invite it. But there it is. And it's so hard to get rid of. And it's like, was it worth it? You know, it's like addiction, right? That time to break from the norm, that peace of mind. And then before you know it, you're in a dark tunnel of own broken and it's so much worse than you ever thought. Right. Right. And I, it breaks my heart, especially when it hits the children, you know, and they put their children at risk. They didn't know it would follow them home. They, you know, and I get it. And a lot of us unknowingly invite these things, you know, addictions. Your, your guard is down. So

1:07:46these things are looking for a way to have their have access to you. They study you. And this goes for the negative alien beings that are abducting and abusing people and the shadow and hat man beings, anything that's dark and aiming to take over. They wait to your guys, guard is down. They wait to your sick. They wait to your high or drunk or passed out or, or your emotions are out of control. Your stress. This is when they are a pouts on you. And it is such a pattern. And, and I'm like, you know, I get it. That people want answers. But sometimes I tell people, does it really matter why it's there? Let's just find a way to get rid of it. It's like, oh, no, I want to record it. I want to be the next, you know, best thing. I'm like, this is not worth it. I haven't had so many people back away because I want to write a book about their experience. I'm like, you're being tortured. It's all your children. Do you not want to get rid of these things? You know, it's, it's wild to me. And it's, and again, it's, it's really heartbreaking. So I hope that people realize one thing too. I have spoken to people that have dealt

1:08:50with possession. I've spoken to exorcists, lay exorcists, spiritual healers, deliverance ministers. What is one of the most terrifying elements to me are people that have dealt with full possession who after a few months call it back in because they don't feel as admired. They don't feel as important. Now that they don't have this connection, people cared before Heidi. People wanted to help Dave when he was possessed by blah, blah, blah, right? And now that it's gone, now that I've been stripped of that, it's almost like, where do I fit now? Who am I without this? Which also explains why people stand horrific relationships for so long. Ah, that's a, that's something I've never heard of. That's, that's really sad and heartbreaking. And, you know, it kind of flipping that the script a little bit like when I finally decided to take a step forward in regards to these medical mysteries and what was being deemed as stigmata. I didn't think I could handle it. I,

1:09:54I'm very visual. I'm a person that's like, even if I'm going to put stuff in the back of my car, I visualize how I'm going to put it in there. Whenever I thought of this topic, nothing was therapeutic. I was like, I don't know what I'm doing. I just have to be painfully on us as I've always been. But it took me five years and I kept trying to disprove everything because I don't want to have any kind of glorification for something I didn't earn, you know, and I respect Christ so much. He's everything to me. And, and I think, you know, having our values in the right place, I think that's really important in anything that's supernatural. And, uh, yeah, gosh, this has been such a long road and to come full circle. And something I want to be sure that I squeezed in when in all of this stuff that I've been doing and here, you know, started with discovering shadow people, naming that and then coming up to, I'm considered a near outlier of what it is to be called human, Dave. Like my anomalies are that vast and so out of character and

1:11:00so out of sync with what it is to grow into be a human. I was the CIA person told me they wondered and considered if I were a hybrid. And like, thank God, I didn't get that category, but I was compared to something called the adochema skeleton that changed the medical world, the scientific world and finding that it had seven novel mutations. I was told I had up to 40. That's how strange. And I'm like, so if anything, I hope in everything that I've been doing and trying to step forward and speaking about this, tying up from the shadow people to the hat man to know where I said today is to prove hopefully even in Iota to show that the miracles of God are real. I was saved so many times with Jesus showing up and to now have a CIA scientist and a professor of anatomy stepping forward to say only divine design could have done this. So I hope that this kind of evidence

1:12:06can help prove the reality of the one true God. And if I could help in being any element of proving that, I'm proud to do so. Well, and just speaking as your friend, I know that you say you don't want the glory, you don't want that kind of accolade put upon you, but I think that it is a gift that's given to people who spend their lives trying to help others in that aid. And there's though you're not wearing it as the, you know, the multi colored code of Joseph, you are in fact doing good work in God's name to help others that are in need. So not that pride should all play a part in that for you, but know that you've taken that mark because you're the warrior that you were sent here to be and that you're doing those jobs. So thank you very much, Heidi. And thank you for sharing and making it open for people. Thank you, Dave. And through your website, people can reach out to you if they need help, right? Yes, yes, Heidi house.com. And thank you for the kind words. It's been really a difficult time, but you know, I wouldn't want to any other way, honestly, I'm

1:13:12proud to be where I'm at right now. And I hope that is for all of you. And I hope that the world is just a little brighter with the information that we share here each week on your home for everything strange and anomalous. On Dave Shradder, your host, this is Paranormal for 60.