Patrick Clancy Speaks — Holdout Says Lindsay Was Guilty From Day One

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2:04A former American Idol contestant goes on trial for his wife's murder. We've got a couple of more cases for you. This day in legal history, our legal quote of the day and our dumb criminal. Let's talk about it. All right, lawyer. Lawyer. Lawyer. Lawyer. Good day, everyone. My name is Scott Reichen. This is Crime Talk. Thanks for joining us. You know the drill. Subscribe if you haven't. Like if you do. Leave me a comment below and make sure you hit that little bell for notifications of when we go live. And yes, you can check us out on any of your favorite podcasting apps. Let's get straight to it today. So let's go ahead and open the record for September 17th, 2026. And first on the docket, we've got two major developments in the Lindsay Clancy case. Patrick Clancy is preparing to give his first major television interview since the mistrial. And we're also hearing a very different version of what happened inside that jury room from the loan holdout. Whose vote prevented a unanimous verdict?

3:06Patrick will appear on 60 minutes this Sunday. And CBS has now revealed that his new wife, Dr. Rachel, Dennis will appear alongside him. Now Dennis is the New York based fertility specialist whom Patrick married in April. This will be the first time that she has spoken publicly since their private life became a major subject of attention during the Lindsay Clancy trial. So CBS says Patrick will discuss grief, mental health, the conspiracy theories that spread about him online. And the most importantly, he's going to talk about Korra, Dawson and Callan. And one very short moment from the interview gives you an idea of where Patrick is still at emotionally. He says he talks to his children all the time. And the correspondent asks him what he says to them. Patrick answers simply help me all the time. That really connects back to what Patrick told the public just days after the children

4:10died back in January of 2023. They didn't just die. They were murdered. And at that time, he wrote that he was barely sleeping and was dreaming about Korra, Dawson and Callan over and over again. He described Korra as having an infectious laugh and said that she dreamed to be coming a doctor and a mother. He remembered Dawson for what he called his pure kindness. And he described Callan as an incredibly happy baby who always seemed to be able to make him feel better. Patrick said his children had given him life purpose. And that after losing them, there was an enormous void where that purpose has been. But perhaps the most remarkable part of that original statement was what Patrick said about Lindsay. Only days after discovering his children, Patrick publicly said he had forgiven her and asked others to find forgiveness as well. He said that the Lindsay he knew was loving, caring and completely dedicated to being a mother. More than three years later, when Patrick testified at her murder trial, that position had not

5:13dramatically changed. He described Lindsay as a loving and involved mother while also telling the jury about the severe deterioration in her mental health before the killings. Now Patrick was technically a prosecution witness, not technically he was a prosecution witness, but portions of his testimony became extremely important to the defense. He told jurors that Lindsay had struggled with insomnia, depression, suicidal thoughts and intrusive thoughts involving the children and that she sought extensive psychiatric treatment before January 24th of 2023 when she killed her kids. At that same time, Patrick testified that no doctor ever told him Lindsay could not safely be left alone with the children. He also described Lindsay he knew before her mental crisis as someone whose life revolved around being a mother. That testimony affected at least some of the jurors. Now Jura Paula Devlin later said Patrick's testimony was particularly significant to her because even after everything he had suffered, he did not simply portray Lindsay as an evil

6:16person. And Patrick's position has always been complicated. He is the father of the three victims, the person who came home and discovered what happened. And one of the most emotionally devastating witnesses in the prosecution's case, while at the same time continuing to describe Lindsay as someone he believes had become profoundly mentally ill. Well now Patrick is going to talk publicly about what life looks like after all of that. He has remarried and is trying to move forward, but CBS says the interview will also confront the conspiracy theories that exploded during the trial, including completely unsupported accusation that Patrick himself somehow had something to do with his children's deaths. There has never been any evidence establishing that Patrick was involved and he never has been charged or identified by any authorities involved in this case as a suspect. Lindsay's own attorney has publicly condemned those theories as well. And while Patrick prepares to tell that story, we're now getting another major development

7:19from the opposite side of the case, the lone hold out Jura, the Jura publicly identified only as Michael recently sat down with Ray Marcel of fugitive TV Marcel then appeared on news nation and described what Michael told him. Now according to Marcel, Michael says he believes Lindsay Clancy was sane when she killed her children and believed that she was guilty essentially from the beginning of the case. Marcel says Michael also denies ever telling the other jurors that he had a reasonable doubt that directly conflicts with what several other jurors have said publicly. And the jury for a person Ronnie Carlson has said that Michael acknowledged having reasonable doubt but still refused to vote for a finding of not guilty by reason of lack of criminal responsibility. While Carlson and other jurors have also described increasingly tense deliberations and said they struggled to get Michael to explain what evidence supports his position. Michael's version according to Marcel is that those jurors have misrepresented what actually happened inside the room.

8:20And the phrase from day one is going to get attention. Jures are supposed to keep an open mind. Here all of the evidence listen to the judges instructions and then deliberate before reaching a final conclusion. And if a jury had actually decided guilt before hearing the complete case, the defense would obviously have questions about that. But we also need to be careful here. We do not yet know whether Michael literally meant he had permanently made up his mind before hearing all the evidence or whether he was describing his overall view of the case in hindsight. There has been no judicial finding that Michael violated his oath or committed any sort of germis conduct whatsoever. What we do know is that 11 jurors ultimately favored finding Lindsay not guilty by reason of lack of criminal responsibility while Michael remain the lone holdout. After more than 38 hours of deliberation, Judge Sullivan declared that mistrial back on September 4. Lindsay's attorney, Kevin Renington, is now asking Sullivan to enter a required finding of not guilty rather than put her through a second trial.

9:22That motion is expected to be addressed on September 29th at a hearing and the prosecutors have still not publicly announced whether they will retry Lindsay if that motion fails. So this case is moving in two directions at the same time. On one side, Patrick Lansley is finally talking publicly about the three children. He says he still speaks to every day. The woman he once asked the public to forgive, the new life he has tried to build and the extraordinary amount of attention that has fallen. Most women have been there. Something feels off. You don't feel like yourself. Yet your doctor says everything looks fine. Spoiler, it's your hormones. Midi is a virtual care platform built for women by women and offers specialized hormone care from trained clinicians. Plus, it's covered by most major insurances. Getting started is easy. You can book your first visit with a clinician right away. It's not you. It's your hormones. Visit joinmidi.com to book your first visit. That's joinmidi.com. Insurance coverage varies. Check with your plan for coverage. Hey, I'm running out to drop off a stack of letters and packages.

10:25Need anything shipped while I'm gone? Save the gas. Stamps.com lets you print, postage, and schedule pickups right from your desk. Sink your contacts into the address book. Get detailed accounting insights and get notified the moment your certified mail is delivered. All from my desk? All from your desk. Join the four million businesses using stamps.com right now with Code Podcast and get your free welcome gift. Stamps.com Code Podcast. Text us in the description. Follow him. On the other side, the one juror who prevented this case from ending with an 11 to 1 verdict is now speaking out saying something very different from the other 11 jurors. He says Lindsey Kancey was guilty from the beginning. And depending on exactly what he meant by that, his attempt to defend his decision may have just created another issue for the defense to examine. Sometimes ladies and gentlemen, jurors just shouldn't talk about things they don't know anything about. But that's what happens.

11:26Everybody wants their 15 minutes of fame. After a big case like this, jurors want to write a book. They want to get on TV. I mean, we had the other jurors saying that they felt, you know, compassion and sympathy for Lindsey Kancey from basically opening statements. Is that abandoning your impartial role as well as a juror? I think you have to look at the semantics of it and say, listen, I was the answer. You know, kind of leaning towards guilty. I, you know, it's not saying I wasn't listening to the evidence, but he wasn't convinced. Listen, it took her 18 minutes to kill her children, ladies and gentlemen. She took a call during that time to answer questions about children's laxatives. Okay. Her husband noticed nothing unusual or out of the ordinary whatsoever when she took that call with Patrick Lansy. I guess that there is sufficient evidence. If you wanted to find her guilty and there's sufficient evidence, if you wanted to find her not criminal responsible by reason of insanity, it's there. The bottom line is the jury deliberated.

12:28They were unable to reach a decision. Let's get that hearing date set and get the next trial moving. Let's move forward next on the docket. That Ohio House of Horrors case gets more interesting as we go by. So we have a major update in the Ohio House of Horrors case involving the Ciders family and the 16 children. The authorities found living in horrific conditions earlier this summer. So Elizabeth Siders was back in court Wednesday and pled not guilty to four additional felony sex charges, two counts of sexual battery and two counts of unlawful sexual conduct with a minor. Prosecutors say the alleged victim was a relative between 13 and 15 years old at the time, and the court record identifies Elizabeth as the child's aunt, her husband, Gary Siders Jr. is facing the same four charges and is also pled not guilty. Now what makes this even more significant is that the sexual abuse investigation is actually what eventually led authorities to the Siders home.

13:31Investigators went to the family's house in Hamden on June 30th while working a separate case involving alleged unlawful sexual conduct with a minor. It's inside the police discovered 16 children raging from 18 months to 18 years old living in conditions authorities described as deplorable. Investigators said that the children had spent much of their lives isolated inside the home. Many were not attending school or received regular medical care. Several had serious developmental and communication disabilities and seven children initially required hospitalization. Well Elizabeth, Gary Jr. and Gary's parents were later indicted on extensive child endangerment charges and according to the Ohio Attorney General's Office, Elizabeth now faces 19 counts of endangering children in addition to the four new sex charges. Gary Jr. faces the same 19 in child endangerment counts while Christina Siders also faces 19 and Gary Siders senior faces 16.

14:33Siders have said some of those counts are charged in the alternative meaning that they represent different legal theories involving the same alleged conduct and if the jury found them guilty of all those they would merge. At Wednesday's hearing, the judge set another $250,000 bond on Elizabeth's sex crime case. She already had a $300,000 bond in the child endangerment case bringing the combined total to a whopping $550,000. She was also ordered to have no contact with her husband but another part of her court appearance is now getting a lot of attention. Elizabeth was repeatedly seen holding or cradling her stomach, leading to speculation that she could be pregnant again. Her attorney, Thomas Stolley, was asked directly whether she is pregnant and he declined to answer. At this point, there is no official confirmation that Elizabeth Siders is expecting another child. Now what her attorney did confirm is somewhat remarkable. Stolley says Elizabeth married Gary Jr. when she was only 15 years old and was given

15:37birth to 18 children. Sixteen are living while two can join twins die shortly after birth. He described Elizabeth as having been essentially pregnant for much of the last two decades and said she has never really experienced an extended postpartum period or received consistent medical care appropriate for that many pregnancies and births. Her attorney says that history is one of the reasons he requested a competency evaluation. He wants to make sure that the mental health professionals examine her and determine whether Elizabeth currently understands the criminal proceedings and can properly assist in her defense while also considering the potential psychological effects of marrying so young, spending much of her adult life pregnant or caring for children and living in an extremely isolated lifestyle. Stolley says Elizabeth does not personally describe herself as a victim, but he believes there may be deeper psychological issues that need to be evaluated now that she's been removed from that environment. And competency has become an issue throughout the case.

16:40Gary Jr. and Christina Siders have also requested evaluations while Gary Siders senior, the 73-year-old grandfather, has already been found incompetent to stand trial and reportedly is not restorable to competency. His attorney expects the criminal case may eventually be dismissed, although prosecutors will determine how that process moves forward. So what began as the shocking discovery of 16 children allegedly living isolated from society has now expanded dramatically. Elizabeth Siders is facing 19 child endangerment counts for additional felony sex charges, a combined $550,000 bond and a pending competency evaluation. Her husband is facing the same new sex allegations and the investigation that produced those charges is the same investigation that ultimately led police to discover the children in the first place. Now Elizabeth and Gary Jr. have pled not guilty, the sexual allegations have not been proven in court, and Elizabeth's possible pregnancy remains unconfirmed.

17:44But the scope of the Ohio House of Horrors case, well, it continues to grow. Next, jury selection begins today in Ohio in the murder trial of Caleb Flynn. A former American idol contestant accused of shooting and killing his wife Ashley Flynn and then allegedly trying to make the scene look like a home invasion. The case began back on February 16th at the couple's home in Tip City. Caleb called 911, reporting a burglary and said his wife had been shot. Police found 37-year-old Ashley dead inside the home from two gunshot wounds, investigating the murder. The investigators initially saw what appeared to be the signs of forced entry. Authorities later concluded there had not been a random break in and arrested Caleb three days later. He was eventually indicted on 11 charges, including aggravated murder, murder, felonies assault, tampering and with evidence and intimidation. He's pled not guilty and is being held on a $3.5 million bond.

18:46Prosecutors are expected to argue and present evidence that Flynn staged part of the scene to support his story. I'm Serena Williams and I'm healthier on Rho. I've lost 34 pounds in a year with GLP1's diet and exercise. On Rho, you can access GLP1 options, including the first FDA-approved GLP1 pill for weight loss. Go to Rho.co slash journey to see if you qualify. 14-20% average weight loss in one year in non-diabetics with obesity or overweight with a weight-related medical condition versus 2.2% to 3.1% in placebo R.Rx only to stay informed about serious side effects. Go to Rho.co slash safety. It's fall in America. Make it count. At the Ram Drive-in to Fall Sales event, make it powerful with our strongest Ram 1500 ever. Make it move with the Ram Heavy Duty with an available Cummins diesel and make it go to the distance with a 10-year or 100,000-mile powertrain limited warranty. Hurry and now for great deals during the Ram Drive-in to Fall Sales event. Excludes fully electric vehicles applied to 2026 model-year vehicles non-transferrable visit MoPAR.com for complete details and a copy of the powertrain limited warranty.

19:47Ram and his are registered trademark of Cummins Inc. Ram and Hemi are registered trademark of FCA US LLC. That an intruder killed Ashley. Two of the most important witnesses could be his own daughters who were inside the home at the time of the shooting. Both are expected to testify along with a woman. Prosecutors have reportedly identified as Flynn's alleged mistress. Prosecutors have listed nearly 200 potential witnesses overall. Now there has already been some significant litigation over how the children will testify. The girls will not be shown on video during their testimony, although their audio can still be broadcast. The judge also ordered witnesses separated during the trial so they cannot watch testimony or discuss the case before taking the stand. Pretty standard sequestration order wherever I practice. Only place I've never seen that was South Carolina. Anyway, Flynn gained some public attention when he appeared on season 12 of American Idol in 2013 where he described himself as a music pastor and spoke publicly about his

20:49love for Ashley. She later became an elementary school teacher and a volleyball coach in tip city and was well known within the community. Now the defense previously tried to move the trial out of Miami County because of the public city surrounding the case, but the judge ruled that they must first attempt to seat in impartial jury locally. Their selection could take up to two days and the trial itself is expected to last roughly two weeks. That's normally the way the change of venue has happened is let's see if we can't get a jury and if we can't then we'll move it. So Caleb Flynn obviously has played knock guilty and the prosecutors will have to prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt. But once testimony begins this could become an especially personal trial with Flynn sitting at the defense table while prosecutors potentially call his own daughters and a woman described as his alleged mistress to testify against him. A disturbing case out of West Virginia where a 75 year old woman is accused of leaving her severely ill husband sitting on a toilet for approximately 19 hours without food, water,

21:52or medication and investigators say that the neglect significantly contributed to his death. Now significantly, is that a proximate cause type of thing that but for that conduct he would have survived. That's what it'll probably blow down to. Authorities say Margaret Rogs 76 year old husband suffered from dementia Alzheimer's disease and legal blindness. And on August 20th he went to the restroom around 3 pm. But when he was finished, Rogs was apparently unable to get himself off the toilet. Investigators alleged that instead of calling for help, she simply left him there. Court records say the man remained on the toilet overnight, groaning in pain while Rog eventually went to bed. He wasn't discovered until around 10 the following morning when a speech therapist arrived at the home for an appointment and found him unresponsive. The therapist immediately called the ambulance at the hospital doctors diagnosed him with multiple serious conditions, including heart and respiratory failure, a pulmonary embolism sepsis, severe dehydration, and a dangerous condition involving the breakdown of muscle

22:56tissue. He also had wounds on his backside. While the man remained hospitalized with diet on August 31st, investigators later concluded that the injuries and medical complications associated with being left on that toilet were significant contributing factors in his death. Authorities also say Rog made statements during the investigation indicating that she knew her husband needed assistance but chose not to seek further help. She pled not guilty Tuesday and posted a $75,000 bond. Obviously, these are allegations and they have not yet been proven in court. Next, an NYPD officer is accused of burglarizing a Bronx apartment, stealing nearly $50,000 in cash and gold jewelry, and then using restricted police databases to keep tabs on the investigation into the crime. Prosecutors say that 33-year-old officer Louis Truncefeld entered an apartment in the Bronx shortly after midnight on August 31st and wheeled out a shopping cart containing a black

23:57metal safe. Inside were approximately $9,500 in cash, $38,500 worth of gold jewelry, and important personal documents including a passport, so security card and permanent resident card as well. Investigators also alleged that Truffnell returned to the apartment afterwards and erased surveillance footage that had captured the burglary. But here's where the case gets especially interesting. Prosecutors say the officer had already used the NYPD issued device the day before the burglary to look up information connected to the victim. After the theft was reported, he allegedly accessed restricted police databases repeatedly to follow the investigation, including checking the complaint report and even searching for his own name. All those databases searches were logged. Anyway, the officer pled not guilty to 17 counts, including burglary, grand larceny, evidence tampering, and 14 counts of computer trespass. Thank goodness he's been suspended from the NYPD without pay and was released on his own

25:02reconnaissance after being ordered to surrender his passport. He scheduled to return in court in October, and obviously we'll give him that presumption of innocence as well. Have it a little history to make your day a little better. On this day, 1787, after nearly four months of debate in Philadelphia, 39 delegates signed the United States Constitution. That document created the basic structure of the federal government we still have today, three branches, separate powers, and systems of checks and balances designed to keep any one branch from becoming too powerful. But the Constitution did not become law that day. It still had to be ratified by at least nine of the 13 states, and that sparked a major debate across the country over how much power the new federal government should have. Those concerns about the individual rights eventually led to the bill of rights. That's right, the restrictions on the government. And then on September 17th, Marx more than just the signing of the document, it marks the

26:02moment the little framework of the United States was formally put into place. But a little quote to make us all a little smarter quote, if men were angels, no government would be necessary. End quote James Madison. That's right. Madison wrote that line in Federalist number 51 in 1788, while defending the new Constitution and explaining why the country needed a system of checks and balances. His argument was that government is necessary because people are imperfect, but the people running government are imperfect as well. That's why the Constitution doesn't simply give power to the government. It divides the power, limits it, and creates different branches that can check one another. The idea is simple. Government must be strong enough to enforce the law, but restrained enough that no one person or institution can exercise unlimited power. And finally, our dumb criminal of the day.

27:05Today's dumb criminal comes from San Diego, where an unidentified man allegedly broke into a home and apparently forgot the part where you're supposed to leave quickly. Security video shows him jumping offence, grabbing a ladder and climbing through a second story window. Once inside, he helped himself to food from the refrigerator, wandered around the house, and then decided to take a nap while police were already surrounding the property. Meanwhile, Nash, the homeowners 90 pound golden retriever, repeatedly approached the intruder, carrying toys and wagging his tail, apparently hoping the guy would stay long enough to play. But police eventually arrested the man after he tried to escape. The homeowners say very little was actually stolen. That is a dumb burglar, ladies and gentlemen, but that's why they get caught because they're not always the smartest. Our ladies and gentlemen, that's all we have for today. We hope you enjoyed the show. Stay safe out there and remember, the Constitution matters.

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