PreCOP climate summit kicks off in the Pacific

0:00ABC Listen, podcasts, radio, news, music and more. Good evening, this is PM, I'm Barbara Miller on Gadigal Land in Sydney. Tonight, Pacific nations zone the alarm as climate talks begin in Fiji and Tuvalu. Also, a ban on card surcharges changes the way some renters can pay and concerns about security checks on pilots. After last week's mid-air emergency on a flight to Tel Aviv. How should I daily work is that there should be greater sharing of security concerns between airlines. And that really doesn't happen in this no international requirement for that to happen. Anthony Albanese has touched on in Fiji at the start of pre-COP 31,

1:03four days of climate meetings in preparation for the main conference in Trutkia next month. Australia is co-hosting the pre-COP with Fiji and Tuvalu, with the event being held in the Pacific as a way of highlighting the region's challenges as a result of climate change. Former Australian and New Zealand leaders Julia Gillard and Jacinda Ardern are two of the headline speakers. But the Albanese government is facing criticism from the federal opposition that the event has not attracted enough senior figures and is costing too much. The ABC's Fiji reporter Live Muvono is in Tuvalu. Live, some political debate here about the value of pre-COP 31. How is the event being viewed there? To be quite honest, intervalu speaking to the people at the community level but also at national leadership. There is some skepticism about the value of COP 31 itself.

2:06But pre-COP is being seen as a way for the leaders of the Pacific to first get on to the same page about those issues that's important to them. But the invitation that had been issued to other leaders from around the world outside of Oshiania had been in attempt on the part of Pacific leaders and that's Fiji Australia and Tuvalu to get the rest of the world to see the world. So we can see what it's really like to be on the front lines of climate change. And that has implications for the goals that the Pacific countries have set for themselves at pre-COP 31. And it's three key priority areas, the first of which that they need for the world to agree to halt global warming at 1.5. And priority is a better mechanism around climate financing for projects in the Pacific and the third of which is a bigger call for the Oshiania agenda to be part of the climate change agenda.

3:08So pre-COP is seen as a necessary step to unify, if you will, the positions of the Pacific and to hopefully go stronger to COP 31. And Australia wanting to send a strong signal about the Pacific as you say on the front lines of climate change by hosting pre-COP 31 in the Pacific. Yet countries like Australia are also copying flag for their continued support of the fossil fuel industry. You've been speaking to the Prime Minister of Tuvalu. Tell us about his message for developed nations. Yes, and it's a pretty interesting relationship that Australia has with the rest of the members of the Pacific Islands Forum of which Australia is of course a member in that they see Australia as a big brother, if you will, who comes to their aid, but also who helps to strengthen the Pacific position on a number of issues, but then at the same time, the countries of the Pacific don't mean

4:09to answer their words when they call on Australia to live up to its promise to live up to its position of being a brother and being part of the Pacific Vuvale, which means family in that family don't do what harms the rest of the family. However, in speaking with the to Valouin Prime Minister, Felicity Teo, he doesn't name Australia specifically when he calls on the carbon-emitting countries of the world to fulfill their part as being contributors or protectors of the climate system is what he calls it. For us, it's not a financial conversation or an economic conversation. It's a matter of survivability for us. So we cannot wait until they are in a situation to sort out the economic situation. I just want to pick up on one of those key agenda issues you mentioned, climate financing.

5:11Just give us an overview of the frustrations that I believe nations, including those in the Pacific, have around the issue of climate finance. Over the last two to three weeks, so the ABC has worked with our partners in the region to talk to communities and I myself spent two weeks up in Vanuolevo, which is a more remote, northern part of VG speaking to communities, one of which had relocated 12 years ago, but has continuously plagued by some of the difficulties of relocating and that's to do with a cultural disconnection. And it's also to do with simple things like drainage and having a church and having kitchen extensions to their homes and on the other hand, other communities that I've visited have been living in tents for five years waiting for climate financing to come through the government so that their new village can be built and they can move in.

6:11So a lot of the frustration we're hearing is around the formal and complex nature of climate finance mechanisms and a tovaluan prime minister, Felicity, talked about it last night when he said that sometimes it can take up to a decade for climate financing to come through a project in the Pacific through to completion. So that's going to be a key agenda at the pre-cop is also going to be possibly the number one agenda going into take here in a month from now. A decade that is an awful lot of red tape. Leave a more vulnerable in to Valor. Thank you so much. Vinlaka and Fasete. A national ban on credit and debit card surcharges wasn't intended to stop nasty surprises, but a few days into the ban the changes caught some Australians off guard. A system used by many renters and those who pay strata fees is no longer allowing credit card payments. Isabelle Mussali reports.

7:13Perth Woman Liz Millwood has been using a credit card for years to pay her strata fees. It was an option through a payment system called DEFT. I don't have to worry about my strata payment going through if it's on my credit card, you know, it'll be automatically debited and when I get my credit card statements, I'll pay it. The 26 year old says this approach allowed her to collect frequent flyer points and made it easier to manage her money. But now credit cards aren't accepted so she set up direct payments from her bank account. That's the other point now. I have to make sure there's enough money in my account every month to pay my gift. DEFT is owned by McCwory bank. It's used by strata companies and more than 1200 real estate agencies who provide it to tenants for rent payments. From this month DEFT has stopped accepting credit or debit cards in response to new reforms that ban businesses from adding a card surcharge. Liz Millwood thought DEFT would just stop the card surcharges.

8:16City of Vincent are still letting us pay council rates with credit cards and not charging an excess. So, yeah, I don't know why DEFT had to do it. It's a point to the new South Wales tenants union is making too. Here's CEO Leo Patterson Ross. I think it's more of a question here about how much choice tenants get and the big problem with this decision and with the system generally is that it's not the person who is paying the fee or actually utilizing the service in the most real sense of paying the rent who gets to choose the provider. In a statement, a McCwory spokesperson said it's evolving the payment options to focus on fast fee-free methods and continues to support customers with alternative payment options including B pay, direct debit and pay ID. Another option is to pay in store at Australia Post via FPOS or check and in some cases people can still pay by card on B pay but that's decided by the agent or strata company.

9:21McCwory is a very strategic bank. It makes business decisions and this is obviously a business decision that they're not going to absorb those costs anymore. Dr. Meg Elkins is an associate professor in economics at RMIT University. We've also seen the same from 80 oh and 80 oh it's not a business so it seems like particular organisations are trying to streamline this rather than factor it in. The Australian Taxation Office will accept credit card payments until the end of November saying it's not tenable to absorb the costs and credit card companies declined to offer a sufficiently low rate. As good as policy makers can be no one will be 100% happy and it's just looking at who the winners and the losers are here and in this instance it's potentially renters and it's potentially small business owners with the ATHO. It's understood less than 2% of rental and strata payments through debt were made through credit and debit cards.

10:23Dr. Elkins warns some of those customers would have been relying on credit cards as a buffer or because they don't have the funds when it's due. I don't think anyone wants to go into a rears but it might for some people it might be the reality. Whereas before they might just be accumulating the credit card debt which they would. It feels to some extent like Macquarie is protecting them like being a good parent but at the same time we are in a difficult economic state right now. It's not like people necessarily have as much choice as they did previously so I feel like it's a double way me not only you subject to higher inflation we're also now subject to not being able to put things in credit. He says tenants should consider speaking to their real estate agents if they're struggling. Isabel Musali reporting. The joy and relief that passengers onboard a fly-to-by plane involved in alleged attempted hijacking managed to avert disaster is giving way to a bitter debate in Israel about the apparent security failures that led to the incident.

11:31According to media reports Oman Air banned the coal pilot alleged to have attempted to down the Tel Aviv-bound plane over concerns he'd been radicalized. Opposition leaders in Israel are now calling for the transport minister media Yoreghev to resign over what they alleged is a failure to properly vet lists of crew and passengers. And Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has announced a review of all aspects of security of foreign flights to Israel amid a blame game over which agency is ultimately responsible for vetting. Ron Barck is chairman of the Aviation Consultancy Avlov. How should I ideally work is that there should be greater sharing of security concerns between airlines. And that really doesn't happen. Then there's no international requirement for that to happen. There's no requirement for an airline that has concerns about an employee to share those concerns.

12:32Well, look, what happened in this particular instance is that one of the other airlines had actually detected that there had been issues but Oman Air did not pass that information on to fly-to-by. Yeah, that's according to reports citing officials involved in the investigation. But what Yoreghev is saying is that worldwide an airline that has concerns about the views and possible radicalization about any employee does not as a matter of course pass those on to other airlines. Yes, look, that's it. There's very strict requirement on the medical requirements for the international civil aviation organization. But psychological testing isn't one of those areas. And even though a medical examiner may have concerns about psychological issues that really is at the discretion of the individual medical officer and part of the problem and big part of the problem is that

13:37it's a very reluctant to admit to any psychological issues with the fear that their license may be suspended or cancelled. But I do think that I care of the international civil aviation organization could introduce a standard to require formal psychological assessment by a psychologist. And at the moment, that's at the individual discretion of the airline. Is it the case then that there's a wide variation in the rigor of testing that a pilot might be put through depending on the airline employing them? Absolutely. Each of the 193 countries that are part of Chicago Convention and the international civil aviation organization standards require high levels of medical, usually a medical once a year for a class one medical. But in terms of psychological assessment, that's left purely to the airline standard, but so to is competency standard. So it really does depend on the individual airlines recruitment and ongoing monitoring program as to the level of safety and security that's provided.

14:49But I think it's worth noting that this particular instance seemed to be extremism rather than mental illness. The difficulty is psychological testing may not have picked that up. So ongoing monitoring of cruise behavior and that by other crew members and other personnel within the airline is probably a good way to get feedback that may not have come from the individual themselves. Having a healthy reporting culture within the airline is absolutely essential. That's aviation consultant Ron Barge. You're listening to PM. I'm Barbara Miller and you can hear the program live or you can catch up anytime later on ABC Listen. New figures from Queensland show that tougher laws targeting illegal tobacco shops have led to a 55% increase in legal cigarette sales in the state. The federal government says the numbers prove that tougher policing works and wants other states to follow Queensland's lead. But premieres say their police forces are already stretched and Canberra needs to do more to stop illegal tobacco from entering the country in the first place. Christy, sexton McGraw reports.

16:05The federal government was out and about today sprucing Queensland's crackdown on illegal tobacco assistant minister Julian Hill says other states should be taking note. Queensland's magic formula which I've been talking with other states about includes closure orders so not just a long weekend but the 90 day closure orders but landlord penalties. So it gives the landlord the power to terminate the lease but then says to the landlord if you don't terminate the lease when the shop's been court selling illegal tobacco the landlord suffers a penalty. There are some big numbers behind the sales pitch. Legal cigarette sales jumped 55% in the first month after Queensland tougher laws came into effect in November last year according to the illicit tobacco and e-cigarette commissioner. Sales of legal cigarettes also stayed 40 to 45% higher than before the crackdown for the next six months and a legal packet can sell for around $12 to $15 compared with $40 to $60 for a legal packet. But the states aren't exactly lining up behind Canberra.

17:11The federal government should be doing more to stop illegal tobacco entering the country. Ultimately law enforcement is an important part of what state governments do. The federal government has more work to do in this space quite frankly. The reason why we have illegal tobacco operations is because illegal tobacco is entering the country. So if the federal government thinks the states should do more in this space we'll write back out. New South Wales Premier Chris Minnes has also questioned how much police time should be spent chasing illegal tobacco saying it's diverting resources from frontline policing including responding to domestic violence incidents. Dr Vincent Hurley is a former police officer and criminologist. Training police from frontline resources, you know, attending motor vehicle actions, attending domestic arguments, spotting their own organized crime whether it be state or local drug trafficking, investigating the homicide. There's also a lot of money writing on where smokers buy their cigarettes.

18:13Tobacco excise is the tax the federal government puts on legal cigarettes. Queensland expects it's cracked down to generate an extra 89 million in tobacco excise and 11 million in GST for the federal government over two years. The federal coalition and one nation want deep cuts to the excise. Arguing the high price of legal cigarettes is fueling the illegal market. He is National's leader Matt Kavanan. We're not raising money from the tobacco excise. It is funding organized crime and it's increasing the amount of nicotine used in our country is failing on all levels. The federal government is ruling that out. He's assistant minister Julian Hill. But even if you imagine a world where you wiped out all tobacco excise, the illegal cigarettes are still cheaper. Dr Hurley says lowering the tax won't necessarily reduce the impact of organized crime groups. The organized crime syndicates are not going to find it as profitable. So they're just going to move into say legal drugs or human trafficking or firearm trafficking.

19:16He says one option is to give states and territories a share of the tobacco revenue to help pay for enforcement. If the states and territories believed that they were going to get some of that excise and then fed back into their police. So the states and territories then could employ more police or get the police to do over time on their own state based issue. The federal government says it's targeting the illegal tobacco trade at the border through Australian border force seizures and is working with states on law enforcement. Christy, Sexton, McGraw, there. Two of the biggest names in Brazilian politics will face off in a runoff election for president, Lacia this month. Senator Flavio Bolsonaro, a Trump ally and the son of former president, Jair Bolsonaro, has won the first round of voting with 47%. The incumbent president, former trade union leader Lula in Atheolula da Silva came in with 45%.

20:20Although close, the result was unexpected. With polls predicting it was president Lula who would emerge ahead from first round voting. Thiago Nassimento da Silva is a Brazil specialist at ANU. I think there are a lot of reasons that we can include here for why the polls get like, got it wrong. I think the answer is first, Lula got 45%. That is like, align or expect that you want the polls that were telling us. But I see two reasons for why we saw a different result, especially with Flavio being the first. I think the first is the strategic voting on the right in Brazil. So we had several small candidates in the right, adding up to around 10 to 12% a few weeks ago. And then on Sunday, they got 7.5%. So that difference went to Flavio Bolsonaro.

21:20And it went in the last two days to Flavio Bolsonaro after the polls closed their food work. Also, I think another reason is the turnout. So abstention hits 21%. So is the highest since 1998. And abstention is Brazil is higher among poor and less educated voters who need to move up. Jaya Bolsonaro is serving lengthy jail term 27 years for masterminding the events of January 2023. A failed coup after the last election. Flavio Bolsonaro says that he would grant his father and jail supporters amnesty. If that happens and he does that, do you think we would see further unrest in Brazil? Yeah, so politically this is the strangest part of the election. We have a candidate who leads the race promising to free the men convicted of trying to overturn the previous election.

22:21Lula said he wants to win presidency. Precisely to keep that convention standing. So yes, this is important referendum on accountability for a coup attempt. The next day, I think Lula read said that he was set the results. He said that he will congratulate Bolsonaro and that's what leaders should do in a democracy. Flavio Bolsonaro was not as clear as Lula about that because he claimed that sometimes not sometimes he'd been claiming and his father has been claiming that there are some fraud in elections in Brazil. That is they were not able to prove especially because we have a reliable electronic voting in Brazil. But the thing is Bolsonaro's are the ones that have been in the past not accepting the results and then mobilizing their base and their supporters to go to streets as it happened in the January 2023.

23:22I just want to talk a little about the regional implications of a win by each candidate. Flavio Bolsonaro has aligned himself with the Trump administration. What do you think it means in broader terms if Lula retains the presidency or conversely if Bolsonaro wins? Yeah, the regional context I think is very clear. What the region tells us is that security beats everything apparently as an electoral issue in the region also the conservative idea of family, religion. I think also the Bolsonaro family is much well aligned with Trump and Trump has been very friendly with the family. So we have to remember that the review is under some economic tariffs that Trump already indicated that if Bolsonaro wins he will revoke them. And with Lula he's trying to make Lula's life more difficult.

24:26And so Lula has been used that in a way to show that he's defending the country and the sovereignty of the country. So I think the relationship with the United States will be an important one to see after their elections. Thiago Nazimento da Silva, a senior lecturer in politics and international relations at ANU and that runoff will take place on October 25th. That's it for PM this Monday of public holiday for some of you. Hope to catch you at the same time tomorrow. I'm Barbara Miller, goodnight. I, it's Sam Halley here, host of the ABC News Daily podcast. In a lower north shore Sydney suburb residents came out fighting and they won. The plan for a data center meters from local homes and a school in Lane Cove were shelved. There are so many more in the pipeline today we talked to a Lane Cove resident and ask the ABC's National AI reporter, Ham Wilson, just how many data centers we could end up.

25:37Look for the ABC News Daily podcast on ABC Listen.