Prison Break

0:00This is a global production. This is LVC from global leading Britain's conversation with Nick Ferrari at breakfast. Come on to four minutes after seven on Friday, the second of October. Coming up in this hour, the biggest boost for Nigel Farage in his political career, the reopening of the Brexit debate will play your little of what he said, we will not re-prossecute the Brexit debate. I think probably very few have the energy to do that all again, but has the Prime Minister unwittingly played into the hands of Nigel Farage? Because if you look at the polls, the shine had come off. In other news, it's a year on since. One year on from the terrorist attack that claimed the lives of two British Jews, we've been given access to the heat and park synagogue in Manchester. I'm LBC's Liam Gotting with the exclusive. You're all fuels over diesel, so says President Trump. He could start to ban exports into Europe as he suggests the continent should free up its stocks.

1:04We'll look at that, not just what it means with a pump, so it'll cost just about the prices of everything, as most of the costs are on those trucks. In other news, parents will no longer be stung with rip off fees just to sit next to their children on flights. That seems to make good news, but what about aviation more generally? And if we need growth in the country, yes, all eyes on Heathrow. Prime Minister Andy Burnham told me at the Labour Conference earlier this week. I think we do need to have a wider discussion about what is the right airport configuration for the country. Plus, it's back. Yes, Traders returns with a vengeance. We'll fill in all the details for you later in the show. Nick Bororio breakfast. Call 03456060973. Text 84850. Nick Bororio breakfast. On LBC. Well, of course, you heard it on LBC when we were covering that conference speech yesterday.

2:05An ideal for Irish claiming Andy Burnham has given him the biggest boost in my career by reviving the Brexit debate. The reform UK leader say he'd open a huge flank to his party. Now, this comes after a series of pledges to the Labour Conference by the Prime Minister and the declaration that rejoining the EU was among options that government would look at. Here's his speech, Mr Burnham's speech, Prime Minister's speech on Tuesday. Brexit has done more harm than good. We need to restore a higher level of growth and prosperity for Britain. So I will take the opportunity around the summit to lay out to you, to lay out to the country, what I believe the different options are for Britain's long-term relationship with our European partners. And there are different options. And I will see if we can find consensus around one, which will give us clarity

3:06about our position and the future of the continent that we live in. Meanwhile, if you listen to or saw Nigel Farage yesterday, there was definitely a spring in his step again. Here is in Donkaster. It's so contradictory. He says he wants to unite the country. A second referendum will divide the country busily in a way, perhaps we've never seen before. And he says he wants devolution. He wants power, passed down as near as possible to everybody. But somehow by doing that we will become better off and richer. What he wants to do here is transfer all all- making power, potentially up to Brussels. If Andy Burnham, the King of the North, wants a fight in Donkaster and the Red Wall with me on rejoining the European Union, then bring it on, I say. He might just have given me the biggest boost in my career I've ever ever had.

4:10Let's turn to Mike Buckley, who's the Director of the Independent Commission on UK EU Relations. And a former adviser for the Labour Party joining me now. Mr Buckley, the last part of the is clips that we played. Isn't that the political reality? This is an extraordinary boost to Philip for Farage, isn't it? No, it's the exact opposite. Actually, a good warning in fact. A good warning. Thank you for having me. I mean, we two things that Nigel Farage said that are not true, which is perhaps not the first time that has happened, but nobody's talking about having a second referendum. What Andy Burnham was talking about was putting an option on the future for our relationship with the EU in the next Labour Party manifesto and people voting on that, on that basis. And of course, Andy Burnham was not talking about transforming all or working power to Brussels. That's never been the case in the EU. What is he talking about? A single accustomed union. Can you define where he thinks we need to go? What he's talking about is setting out the real options too. The British people, they do include a custom union, also rejoining the single market in the way that say Norway does, where they are indeed a rule taker. And I will personally argue against that. I'm not all rejoining the EU entirely, which is a union state, but everybody shares their sovereignty

5:13to that greater good, both in terms of economic growth, but also security, defence, action on climate change, cheaper energy prices, cheaper food prices, lots of things that Andy and others may set out later in the year. But I think the overarching issue here, based on what Nigel Farage was saying, yesterday, is that his claim that this is going to be a boost to him politically. I don't think stacks up at all. This is not 2016. We've all been living in the consequences of Brexit for six years now. Ten years ago, he could sell us a promise and say things will get better if we leave the EU. We all know that that now isn't true, because we've all lived in the reality of the Britain being outside of the EU. And the good times have not come. The economy has not got better if that has got a lot worse. But if we have to look at the world, if they're in the UK, we can country, and we need to get a stronger one again. But if we talk about the economic side of this, while our growth has been anemic, bizarrely, it has outstripped those of our European friends, such as France and Germany. So it would be it would be it very poorly. We have grown slightly better than those. Why would that be? But that's the wrong that's the wrong that's the wrong question.

6:17The question is, I'll ask the questions if that's alright, because currently I present the show, so why would that be? No, sorry, I'm not saying that you're asking me the wrong question. I see. Whatever question you like, this is entirely your show. Sorry, I'm seeking to do so. But the question of how has our growth been better or worse than their growth is the wrong question. So ask about how are economies growing over the last few years? What, why would that be wrong, might? Well, the right question to ask is what would happen to the UK economy had we stayed in the EU? And so the answer to that question is we've always had the growth that we have had. And we've been brought down like France and Germany and Italy though. Because what has happened to their economy is not happened to their economy because the members of the EU, what has happened to their economies have happened for other factors. So for example, it's take Germany to work for one example. I know we obviously can't go into it all. Oh, it's all the different. No, sure. But one example, they have a big manufacturing base. Their economy has been swung by cheap Chinese imports. Then it's had a harming effect on their economy particularly on their car industry, which is not pivoted quickly enough to

7:21electric models and to cheaper models. And so they've been swung by cheap Chinese imports. That's had a very bad effect on their economy. Nothing to do with it whether they're in the EU or not. And indeed what they're now doing on economic protectionism as the EU is going to help Germans. But Mike, I don't drive a lot, but when I'm on the cars on the road, if I look around, it's like being in Beijing, every other car seems to be Chinese. Now, surely we've suffered the same problem. Well, we have, which is why our economy could also be better. Had we been in the EU? In the reality is we've lost what we've done. What an IGI use is Russia. So Russia's happened, they've evaded Ukraine. We as well, we've put up sanctions on Russia. We've made it more difficult for them to trade with other nations to harm their economy. But we left the EU, we did that to ourselves. No other nation on Earth has ever done that. What do you have to trade barriers on your own countries? Very, very big thing to do. Just puts up costs on businesses. The main work we've done as an organization in the last six years is talk to businesses and say, how has it been for you since we left the EU? Every single company has said it's made things worse. We've grown less, we've made less, we've sold less,

8:23we've been pulled fewer people, we've paid lower wages because our costs have gone up because we left the EU. Michael Musselvich there, thank you, I might Buckley was a Labour advisor, director of the Independent Commission on UK EU relations. Let's come back to the idea of is this a Philip Abust for Farage. Lucy Harris was a Brexit party and Conservative MP and has been an advisor to the Conservative party. So there we have good balance. Thank you very much for coming on. Is this nice for Nigel? Good morning. Good morning, Ashley, I sort of agree and fundamentally very much disagree with your call agenda. This has been a good start today. I actually do agree that this isn't the win that Nigel thinks it is mainly because I think it's a bit of a strategy from Andy Burnham because it really would distract from the inevitability of high taxes, a poor economy and immigration. If you throw in a third topic of conversation which is very juicy for the right to have a conversation over, I think it distracts us from the real issues at hand which are going to be the responsibility

9:25of Andy Burnham and prevents us from talking about them. So I think that's the agenda here. It's not really to open the debate about Brexit because in so many ways it just can't happen. The EU probably doesn't even want us back. But also it wouldn't be good for me. So your previous caller is wrong to say that it would be good for the economy mainly because we'd be signing up to more regulations, compliances which would cost a lot of money businesses. If because I'm sure at times even you lose patience for the Brexit debate, it will see if I can just bring you back. You don't think it's positive for Nigel Farage. No, I don't. I think it's right. I mean, even if it's not Guardian which, Lucy, I'm sure you'd say the Guardian is not necessarily known to be a supporter of a former indeed Nigel Farage, even they in their opinion, he says this could, they don't say it is, but this could be in terms of a boost for Farage. Well, I think they haven't thought about it hard enough because what actually happens if you open up the Brexit debate is that you get the Lib Dems on side and we can already see Andy Burnham teeing up for an early general election. Even though he says he's not going to,

10:27I don't believe him because he's got the green flank on his side by appealing to those who are concerned about the Middle East issue. And then by bringing up the Brexit debate, he gets the Lib Dems on side creating that coalition he so desperately needs to get majority next time round. So I think it's just a bit of a trap and it helps him out in the long run. I wouldn't be going into this debate. I mean, obviously inevitably I might have to go into the debate on Brexit, but I don't think it would be a smart move for the right to do so. They have to stay on the economy and immigration and not move from there. Lucy, I've enjoyed our time. Thank you, Lucy Harris, former Brexit party and Conservative MEP also, and vice-preserved party. Can I just stress? Everyone's getting, if we have to do, of course, if the Brexit debate re-emerges to dear God, of course, can we talk if you don't mind because just re-possicuting gets us nowhere, but is it a boost for Farage or is it not? I say the Guardian in Turbis, as possible, I want to stress, and they're not massive Farage fans. We'll pick up on that. In other news and after the news, get out of jail free.

11:30It's either the Oval Crowdinger's Crowdinger's anything can let us know. There's a lot of cell free doubling up virus so... We've actually released with no witness. Luckily, I've got a few friends that I can stay up. Oh no. People convicted, not necessarily those gentlemen. People convicted for domestic abuse and beating up their wives and partners having to share a cell. That breaks your heart, doesn't it? 700 of them let out yesterday. We'll look at that in more detail. Nick Ferrarian Breakfast on LBC call 03456060973. 19 minutes after seven, Joshua, you're going to be among the first callers on our conversation and I stress we're not going over the old Brexit, if the Prime Minister calls another referendum, of course it will and there'll be full coverage but at the moment, I use that expression again. Is it a philip for Farage, a reboot for reform? Is it nice for Nigel, as he was suggesting a donkatsu yesterday? Europe's on the front pages of a couple of newspapers, not the aspect that we're discussing, that's inside the papers, rather the fuel and the diesel rouse which we'll also look at later in the show. Trump tells Europe to release diesel is the telegraph emergency diesel talks for Europe after Trump ultimatum is the front page

12:34of the Times. Quickly through the other front page, well the story we're about to cover actually is a front page of the Daily Mail, Labor Freeze first of 10 tidal waves of convicts as the Daily Mail puts it. An interesting story on the front page of the Sun which we're also going to do own goal and there's a picture of, of course, football loving Andy Burr, a number big Everton fan, he's been forced to back pedal after saying he did not want to lose Manchester City's mega rich owners, accused of political interference as sporting bodies decide the fate of the club, number 10 being forced to release a clarification of the Prime Minister's work stating that he always said what he meant to say but we'll give you more detail on that later in the show and let you decide it is possibly an own goal or even do we need to blow the whistle on what the Prime Minister said. Joshua is in Birmingham as regards Nigel Farage when he heard about the Prime Minister and the EU debate what do you think his reaction was? Good morning. Good morning mate. It's not a fillet for Farage at all. The middle of the road voter that may have been once swayed by him

13:39or possibly might have been swayed by him now knows from all of the sleaze that's admiring reform UK that he is a chancer, a charlatan, he has next to no chance of becoming the Prime Minister and you can clip this up and play it back at the next election. He has next to zero chance of becoming Prime Minister, he's poll rating the retro surest. Can I put it to you and you're absolutely I think you're coming without too much of an independent view. I'm just asking you if you were a believer in leave and you voted leave and then you saw Theresa May Boris Johnson the Governor of the Bank of England muddled and fuddle and then you suddenly think my god they're coming back. Would you not think we better go back tonight? I appreciate you wouldn't sir and I absolutely respect that but do you not think there's a lot of voters out there who might? I think the people who are wedged inside Nigel Fraud just fundamentally might think that but I think most most people who have seen the disaster that Brexit has been over the last six years know that

14:43that it's not you know it's not the we were much better off closer to the European Union than we are. Last and I don't want to do this but I will just but then why have we grown faster than Germany and France and Italy and Spain and Belgium and the Netherlands why? Well I mean that is the refrain that Brexit has keep using for reality of it. It's the truth. Well you heard what you're you're you're heard what you're commentator said we would have grown significantly. We know but we but we wouldn't because we wouldn't have had the deals with India we wouldn't have had the deals with Japan and we wouldn't have had we'd have had less trade less beneficial trading terms the United States of America. Quick-curred on that because we're going down the debate I don't want to go but you don't think you don't think we'll really help Nigel Fraud too much Joshua. No I don't think so. All right so have a good one in the heart of England in Birmingham thanks very much again I don't want to be seen to be rude but I think we've all talked about Brexit so many times but the Fraud in impact is an interesting one and we'll come back to that. 723 get out of jail free

15:45these prisoners speaking with LBC yesterday after they were released. It's eases the overcrowded and it's crowded there's anything can there's not there's not so free doubling up high-risk souls. How are you going to celebrate freedom? Have a bear and get a fry up. You've got somewhere to live? I have to go probation first hopefully they'll arrange somewhere. Me and Tronto just to get myself some some work some employment if I'm really proud maybe maybe get a girlfriend get married you never know. What you have to say to the finance man? Thanks mate thanks yeah keep the early release going it's good it's a good idea very good idea because it is extra steps to come. You've got a home to go to then. No no the fact we released with no way to stay so luckily I've got a few friends that I can stay up but the people who don't they'll be back doing whatever they're doing. And their friends and possibly family we're waiting with hugs and cigarettes and beer and fizzy wine and whatever else it might be one of them saying what are you going to do? He said I'm going to go back to stealing another bragged about 360 crimes but don't worry they're

16:46out on the street. Some of course were convicted of domestic abuse. Dame Anne Oars is formerly her Majesty's Chief Inspector of Prison and Chair of the Howard League for Penal Reform. We have to start with a very brief history lesson. Dame Anne this was a problem inherited by the new administration it was desperately tight the so-called Prison Estate but your reactions you heard those interviews or possibly so on television these people coming out of jail. What went through your heart in mind? Good morning. What went through my mind is that if you don't do prison well and you don't do probation well and you don't look at what's going to happen afterwards the risk is there for for the public and for people coming out whether you release them at a third at 40% at 50% we've gone through all of those different things but the trick is to try to work within prisons and outside prisons to reduce the risk that people pose to the general public and sometimes to themselves and you can increase that risk by if people don't have a home don't have a job

17:48and you can release and you can increase that risk by putting people in overcrowded prisons where they're sitting in a cell for 23 hours a day watching daytime television and maybe hoping for the next drone drop of drugs and we know that there's insufficient activity in our prisons it's dropped education structratically so if we don't have better prisons we're not going to have better results whenever we release people. Demons some of the people who released I say again some not all are convicted of domestic abuse and you probably know the domestic abuse commissioner uh Dame Nicole Jacob Sussex press concern that not enough background work was done in some instances we don't have enough tags and these I will say men I would imagine they're virtually all been actually we'll have to be tagged over the next two weeks do you share her concern and dismay there? I I could share any concern about people being released and not being and and where where the systems aren't there to to support them but as I said before that risk is there whenever those people are released and in some cases by holding people in prison longer you can actually increase

18:49risk rather than diminish it so it is about where is about investing in in in in in better prisons it's investing in better probation care and so on because that's the only way that you're going to reduce risk and reduce victims for for for all crimes including including domestic abuse. Reminding my listeners you led an independent review of prison capacity as recently as last year can you briefly and I'm sure you could keep talking till I go home at 10 o'clock this morning but could and I don't mean that and an insult by the way could you briefly encapsulate what those findings you and your colleagues found have discovered? Well that that that over time and really the whole of the century prisons have buttered up against capacity ministers have then instituted schemes to to release people to release people early sometimes surreptitiously sometimes openly the last conservative government had three goals at it and by the time they finished prisons were and the criminal justice system were three days away from total collapse so we we work on crisis management and it's really really important that we look at the whole system we look at not just

19:54prisons which take a lot of a lot of energy out we look at probation and we look at the other services which the drug services and mental health services unless we look at the whole ecosystem we're just going to carry on bumbling from crisis to crisis. Grateful for your time thank you day man oars formally a message to his chief inspector of prisons chair of the Howard Lee for penal reform let's take a call on that as 727 Diana's in Beverly your reaction to the interviews you heard or you might have seen on TV good morning hi mooney neck i think it's absolutely ridiculous let them out i do agree that some have done low level crime um but you know it's all this oh we've got a share of room do you know a new recruit in the army it's four to twelve that share of room oh yes i don't know the dimensions of the room the game yeah yes ago prison has used to have four in the room or two at least two so all this about oh it's over crowd and you know the the more the story is you don't want to go to prison don't do the bleeding crime and i do disagree with love that these poor women now that are going to be absolutely right and help and then they get you get some of them coming out covering their faces

21:00oh wonder what they're doing now it will only take god forbid one of those poor victims to be contacted let alone harass by it but you know also Nick they're sending people out they're sending people to prison and they're keeping saying oh well they're not they're not keeping sending them because they're letting them out but they're letting them out so we're overcrowded but i won't know none because of people know i'm talking about but you get someone slushed dingy get go get get go all right i so we'll go carefully there Diana because i know and thank you for giving me the warning i'm going to have to fade you down there but i get the power of your views thank you and we'll take more on that kevin's in oxford waiting to talk about Nigel Farage on the prime minister's decision to possibly review our relationship with the EU how much of a bonus would that be good morning morning yeah i think it'd be a bonus for a farage person me um trying to overflow a democratic vote i don't think it's always good for government i'll be honest with you Nick our debate society was quite wide across a large vernacular people i don't know one single person nor the margaray society has changed their mind on the way they voted oh right um so these polls

22:02nigger for the birds i mean i can give you polls you know i can go to hamster to do a poll with 500 people yeah and i can go to solihill and do a poll with 500 people every two opposite ends of the scour to opposite so polls are for the birds and trump you know that the polls the polls will Brexit you know it's nonsense kevin thank you have yourself a good weekend talking you of that man it's pain at the pump so here's Donald trump i'm thinking about it it'll help diesel but it might raise the price of other things and i think we're in a good place because all prices are going to start to come down tremendous oil is coming out of the hormones straight now he's talking about a us export ban that's panic europe should be ready to start to release some of our stocks there and what on earth makes him think that the oil has start flowing through the straitle pool moves and talking about flowing getting gross into the country prime is handy burners speaking with about airport expansion earlier this week what is the right airport configuration for the country in the long run and where airports have got capacity should that be used first before we allow further airport expansion staying with matters in the skies aviation minister kir maith will

23:05join me later in the show to tell us more about an airline's kids seat fees ban that will save you some cash Nick for worry at breakfast call o3456060973 734 is the time two conversations running at the moment get out of jail free we're going to be looking at that and spare thought for those who have victims of domestic abuse as their husbands or partners are now out of course they are I have to say they are tagged on the ministry of justice would talk about the world leading conditions under which their liberty is governed and we'll come back to whether that's a boost for Nigel Farage getting back into the EU debate into the world of business christian mayors editor-in-chief at city a.m. and there seems to be a bit of a horror horror story with a footsy 100 what's gone wrong over there good morning good morning yeah but every rough day in the markets in london and indeed elsewhere across europe yesterday lost the different reasons of course saw as the case that there are different reasons behind the behavior of different markets one commonality was another surge in the cost of government borrowing

24:11in those bond markets the yield on guilt in the UK is there no in the amount the government will have to pay on interest to convince people to take on that debt and have searched again reasons for that of course as we've often discussed to do with inflation to do with the Iran war also to do with the amount of borrowing going on in the UK and other western economies what happened on the footsy it did take a battering and there are other reasons not least the housing market there's concerns now about where the trajectory of interest rates is going to go in the knock on effects of borrowing costs and mortgages so that took a chunk out of the housebuilders even though they had surged somewhat off the back of the government's new plan to help people get onto the housing ladder when it comes to new builds they lost some of those gains also the bank's nick footsy 100 indexes very heavily weighted towards banks like the standard charted HSBC now where they all took a beating and that is because the banking chiefs have been summoned into talk to john heli next week

25:15as the budget approaches speculation now that he may look to that sector for another tax take and that has sent investors a little bit spooky there are other reasons as to why trouble in the bond market causes in this instance some concern in the equity market stocks and the shares in British listed companies why the concerns about an economic slowdown and also is those guilt yields surged and it becomes more attractive for people to take on the debt because there's a higher interest paid so big institutional investors can shift their money out of stock markets and into the bond market so there's all sorts of things that play should be noted the footsy 100 yes it did take a dive yesterday a little bit down 1.67 percent overall it is still up quite considerably fairly relentlessly over the last six seven years even more so if you put your money in the footsy 100 six or seven years ago and left it well alone you'd still be feeling pretty good if you checked your London listed portfolio yesterday you might notice a few things have gone down a bit but on the

26:16whole it is still a fairly healthy trajectory let's move to another story and the Manchester City store should that be Manchita City scandal goes on and now seems to involve possibly the accounting world well I think there's going to be all sorts of people tumbling out of the woodwork as more and more information comes to light this is of course relating to the charges levied by the Premier League against Manchester City he's in the Vaz officially inflating their revenues by nearly a billion pounds over an eight year period from 2010 now the financial reporting council this is according to the times this morning is considering whether or not to look into the role played by the Accountancy Group BDO auditing Manchester City there is no formal investigation underway but the times reports that the regulators are weighing it up so yes this scandal could touch the city just as it's touched

27:17in Westminster fairly extraordinary intervention from Andy Burnham who said he'd be very sorry indeed to see any of that Arab Emirates money leave his beloved Manchester and Manchester City football club of course with their parent company the Abu Dhabi United Group Downing Street forced to clarify that the Prime Minister is actually deeply concerned about what's been I think we call that a VAR don't we I think I had to go to VAR Christian I think that's right there was suddenly substituted disposition for for another one that was a little bit firmer by the end of the day let's finish with Heathrow Airport and another wrinkle of the idea of a third runway because an MP a fairly influential MP has raised doubts if following on from your interview with Andy Burnham in which you just discussed Heathrow which I think he sought to again clarify some comments he'd made just 24 hours or so before I was by the way speaking to some people closer downing Street yesterday who are beginning to pluck the Andy Burnham in their words does shoot from the hip quite a lot and pups something

28:17you might find out refreshing but if you're Heathrow if you're planning on that expansion you might find it frustrating but everybody has a view on it not least the transport select committee who have raised fresh questions about the viability of the proposed expansions sort of 40-50 billion pound project all in they're also reiterating the fact that it's deeply in their words incompatible with the UK's net zero in climate obligations we spaces some senior figures throughout the aviation industry to take their temperature on where this is going this sort of chop change position from the government from the top of the government they're still confident the planning it is continuing that this project will get the green light despite Andy Burnham saying things like well it's really a matter for West London councils which of course it isn't so a little bit clarity wouldn't go amiss but the view among the industry is still that this thing will just about go ahead even if the political debate around it none assumes to settle. Grateful for that enjoy your weekend thanks Christian Christian may Edwin Sheep at CityA I'm taking us to 739 a couple of emails and coming to you emails and texts Sue concerning

29:21this idea that Andy Burnham starting to look again at the relationship with the EU could help Nigel Farage matching notting them a boost no it's listening to him that got us into the problem in the first place bust maybe Brexit has been as a disaster the growth figures are completely misleading I'm not sure about that completely their apprentices we've grown faster than the Europeans because we will put further down the toilet by the cost of Brexit and by Covid meanwhile Mick in time side I think Farage will win the next general election the process of elimination the electric have tried the rest and frankly nothing works Sue and Thurick is this a boost for breakfast for a reform good morning good morning and I actually want to take this from a different point of view you've asked several times why is the UK economy growing more than the EU's and the reason would be that we're no longer a manufacturing nation we don't depend on manufacturing for our economy the EU does Oh because you talk about the importance of the city another matter sir yeah so you know we haven't got a manufacturing industry anymore I can remember back to the 70s

30:25when we had a massive car industry ship builders why do you remember that yeah yeah and we don't have that anymore we don't rely on that and you were saying that you know sort of every other car you see on the road is Chinese you know we haven't gotten a say these or Renault or any of those other European manufacturers well we do build cars over here but but you're right we build them we don't build them for a British company such no no I think we do a symbol Nisans and Persia and cars yeah yeah yeah so lastly on the question a yay or no yes or no would this help Nigel Farage in reform because the shine is off a little bit or would it not would what difference would it make so and I don't think it'll give him the boost that he thinks to think it'll give him have a good weekend soon thank you for talking about cars let's talk about what many of us have to put in them president Trump talking about a US export ban on fuel I'm thinking about it it'll help diesel but it might raise the price of other things and I think we're in a good place because all prices are going to start to come down tremendous oil is coming out of the Hormos straight

31:26net and he went on to demand that Europe release emergency diesel reserves or risk being cut off from US supplies Ellen Fraser is an energy expert and partner at Beringa partners and joins me now what sort of stocks do we think the United Kingdom might have and the rest of Europe might have how plentiful are they good morning yeah good morning the stocks in the UK unfortunately aren't massively high the stocks in Europe absolutely are higher of diesel and they've been quite carefully protected so far so the IEA obviously pushed many countries to release stocks earlier on this year when we saw the straight-of-formities first clothes but that was mostly release of crude oil and the raw material if you'd like rather than the refined product so Europe has a reasonable supply we don't unfortunately in the UK and that's primarily actually because we don't have any that many refineries in the UK ties back in beautifully to the point that your previous listener made about the lack of manufacturing capability in the UK we only have four here in the UK now

32:27and obviously a lot of the stocks that we have are tied into the private sector and into assets like those Ellen the newspapers are talking the talk review saying that the talks between Britain and the rest of the opinion were quotes crisis talks is that a fair counterization? I wasn't in the room but I suspect that's right I mean diesel prices are obviously at a very difficult position for the European markets at the moment right in the middle of the harvest and right in the middle of a point where we're obviously moving a lot of food around that then don't in the European region as we as we hit the harvest and all of the peak food processing etc and diesel really you know much as we're all switching to petrol and electric vehicles diesel is still a significant backbone of European economies to move stuff around whether that's trains or whether it's road haulage so there's a huge amount of sensitivity in terms of the availability of diesel and the price of diesel and we import quite a significant amount from the US and yet we're very

33:28reluctant at the same time to release those reserves because we just don't know when things in the straight for moves are going to calm down. Ellen not all but much of the country now paying more than two pound a litre for diesel where do you see that going over the coming weeks? Yeah it depends to some degree on on what happens in the straight of formulas as Trump said to be fair actually we're seeing quite a lot of crude flowing through the straight at the moment which is great we're not yet seeing the refined product come through so there's a big dependence on that and there obviously is a big dependence on what the US decides to do with this export ban but there is certainly a lot of upwards pressure on prices so my senses that they'll go up before they come down. If and I'm afraid it is a big if if peace breaks out in the straight of formulas how long does it take for that release to be felt at the pumps from my listeners? Yeah it should happen reasonably quickly that the challenges that actually the straight of formulas is one layer of the challenge but we've created a multiple layered crisis in that region so we obviously now have the

34:34Houthis and Saudi Arabia and actually the Red Sea and the Babel Mandeb's straight is a really important trade flow to get crude oil and refined products up through the Red Sea and into the Med and to European markets so you know we've got to keep eyes on a multi layered resolution that actually creates peace across a number of different dynamics if that happens actually the traders start to get fairly confident reasonably quickly so within two to three weeks you can start to see if you pennies come off at the price of diesel but really to see a sustained reduction we need obviously as a say reliable trade flows and a lasting peace across a number of different dynamics. Thanks your time the Swany Ellen Fraser energy expert and partner Beringa partners coming up after the news parents will no longer be stung with those ripoff fees just to sit next to their children flights the government will announce and in other matters of aviation here's the prime minister speaking with me at the Labour conference this week about Heathrow. I think we do need to have a wider discussion about what is the right airport configuration for

35:37the country. Nick Ferrari and breakfast on LBC call 03456060973. Just going to go on nine minutes before eight is the time and I've mentioned on a couple of occasions this is of course a cost of living government and they're trying to help people particularly parents who want to fly with their children on aircraft more details now from Labour and be an aviation minister here may that who joins me I believe from Manchester Airport minister good to have you on what is it that you and your colleagues are announcing as regards parents and their children this morning good morning good morning Nick and thank you for having me well obviously this week the prime minister Andy Bernheim set out some big ideas for the future of our country but that doesn't mean that we can't take steps to get today to give people a bit more breathing space so we're announcing changes on some of the extra charges that people have to pay when they fly we are getting rid of the charge that some parents have to pay when they sit next to their children aboard aircraft to reserve seats sometimes if you spell your name wrong on a ticket you can have to pay a mandatory charge just to get it changed.

36:37Creating a new system with airlines whether they can share the details of disruptive passengers with other airlines to make sure that those people who are abusive who are violent can't get back aboard different carriers and carry on to act with impunity so hopefully all of these measures together will give people a bit of breathing space and give them more certainty that they can enjoy their summer holidays and get off to where they want to go. Okay so let's just come to the financial side of this what sort of money might this be saving people minister? Well if you take the issue of parents sitting next to their children on a carrier like Lingus if you book a return flight and you do mandatory seat reservations to sit next to your kid each way that can cost you as much as £106 and on the issue of correcting name changes on tickets if you fly with Singapore Airlines and you want to correct a name change issue that can cost you as much as £40 so these are material costs for parents or for travelers who want to be spending their hard-earned money when they go away on holiday so hopefully it'll make a big difference and give people that little bit of extra room. Minister you've mentioned a couple of airlines can I own

37:40name? Excuse me sir can I name you another airline Ryan Air where I am told by listeners they can levies some fairly hefty charges if you've spelled your name wrong or whatever it might be. Will they also be included in this legislation? So this will be a minimum standard that applies to every airline both domestic UK airlines but also international carriers who fly through the United Kingdom. So that sorry that's political speak that does mean right that's right. That's right. Air is included as I would put it as a journalist okay if we stay with my with Ryan Air Michael O'Leary the CEO someone I'm sure you know of or you possibly know personally he still says because of diesel price and a fuel price this is out of course of a government's control that they could go up by 10 to 20% his fares how concerned you about that? Um well fuel supply isn't an enormous issue I would disagree that it's outside of the government's control we took action last summer to pass emergency legislation on slot reform to make sure that airlines could rejig when they do their flights to make sure that they can prioritize their fuel it's something we keep under really close watch and his aviation minister I meet

38:41regularly with industry to monitor the level of supply which obviously impact cost and we think that our suppliers robust at this stage. Well if you're okay if you say you can take more issues I know I know your aviation minister but let's expand on fuel the problem in the state of our moves means that diesel is now north of two pounds and liter in much of the country I appreciate you're the aviation minister but if you can help with a aviation fuel why can't your colleagues help with diesel and unledged minister? Well I'm also the maritime minister next so I was security in the straits of farmers and also the babble mendev is incredibly important to me and it's something that we work very closely with industry on like our jet fuel supply the supply of diesel to the United Kingdom comes from a diverse range of sources and therefore it is resilient but you are right to say the price has gone up at the pump and I get why people are concerned it's why that fuel duty freeze remains in place and the UK continues its work through the international energy agency and our discussions with US counterparts to ensure the West stressing how important it is that those flows of diesel continue. Do you run a motor car minister? I do I do. How much was it

39:45last time you filled out? It was 65 quid which I'm not so happy about. That's a lot and if you have a family and you've got a couple of kids and whatever that's a lot of money for people to find on a weekly or whatever it is basis minister. You're absolutely right and it's why that fuel duty freeze is in place right now and it's why we're continuing that work that needs to happen on the international level to make sure that we're working with European partners and with the United States to make sure that we keep those flows coming into the United Kingdom. So your maritime your aviation you're in the Department of Transport. I need a view from you what President Trump has been saying that Europe should look to release its diesel reserve stocks. Do you conquer with President Trump minister? Well we're working closely with our European partners on diesel supply. It means that we're continuing those discussions about how we retain our resilience and the robustness of our supply chains. President Trump is welcome to make those comments we've got to focus here at home about ensuring that we have diversity of supply into our economy. Our European partners are absolutely central to that particularly the flows of diesel that come through the Netherlands

40:45but this work actually needs to happen at the level of the international energy agency. That's where those discussions ultimately need to take place. You've kindly joined us from Manchester Airport. There is a very live debate minister about where airport expansion. Can you still hear me? I noticed you're having what can you hear me? Can you hear me? Yeah, don't don't be silly. You've joined us from Manchester Airport. There's a very live debate about where airport expansion expansion should go for this country. Should it be Manchester or should it be Heathrow? Why can't you have both? Manchester Airport has been able to enhance its capacity. We've also signed off expansion under this government at Luton and get with airport and we are moving through that process by which you could expand Heathrow Airport. So we understand the importance of regional aviation but Heathrow is also critical both to our national economy but also as an international hub which lots of regional airports rely on to offer connecting flights to access broader aviation markets. So your four square across the piece is important. Your four square behind a third runway. Are you? Well, the reason that we're moving through this consultation process is to create a

41:47framework by which expansion could happen. We of course, and I think the prime minister said this in his conversation with you need to take into account the robust tests that we have in place around carbon, air pollution, noise pollution, economic growth around expansion. But we are doing this consultation process exactly so a potential promoter could bring forward a scheme for Heathrow expansion and they can get on and do it. I only ask because Ruth Cadbury who is a colleague of yours who as you will know chairs the transport select committee says the economic case for the runway was even weaker when they first started looking at it eight years ago. Would you concur with that? Well, it's important that we're honest with people about whether the narrative is gone on the principle of Heathrow expansion and I think Ruth is referencing a report that came out a few years ago. The one that has both recently been released, the analysis around the expansion that the department for transport has recently done, still shows that Heathrow expansion could add tens of billions of pounds as we go towards 2050. But it's also really important to say that Heathrow is our international hub airport. So although we're talking about the growth impacts that it could have,

42:50there is also a really important resilience concern there as well because we don't want people flying to Shardagall or Shippell. We want them flying to Heathrow to connect with the rest of the world. So we need to retain that international hub status. So there's a resilience aspect as well, which needs to factor into these conversations. Lastly and minister, this is out of your brief, but you are a representative of the government. You'll be aware that the early release of some prisoners had to touch comments yesterday as an inheritance from what you had, what your cup, what your government picked up from the crisis in the prison state. But there's a lot of concern, including one through the domestic abuse commissioner saying not enough preparation was done to tag in some cases violent domestic abuse offenders. Have not you personally, have you done enough work? Can you guarantee the safety of some women who are really, really concerned this weekend? It's the government's utmost priority to do everything we can to maintain people's safety. On the very valid point that's raised of concern about whether people are tagged when they leave prison, yes, people we've had a presumption now that there must be mandatory tagging. Some people

43:53are tagged when they depart the prisoner state. Some people are tagged within the community. You don't have enough tags with probation services. I appreciate this isn't your department, but they weren't enough tags. Where they're? Well, these things happen in different ways in different places. Some leave prison with the tags, some get them in the community. But there is an important thing to also bear in mind because you're absolutely right to say that victims need to feel secure and safe. We've got a really robust system in place where in consultation with victims and their families, we can draw exclusion zones that perpetrators cannot enter, where these people are tagged, their monitoring is extremely close. They're banned from attending football matches from attending pubs, so there is a robust system in place to do our utmost to ensure people safety. Grateful for your time. The end of so-called ripoff fees of up to 104 pounds or 106 pounds. I'm sorry, there's some airlines could charge us. Outline by aviation is to give me them. This is LVC from Global, leading Britain's conversation with Nick Ferrarian Breakfast.

44:57Good morning, three minutes after eight on Friday, the second of October, get out of jail free. Hundreds of convicts release. One of them saying he's going to go back to stealing many of them saying cheers Andy, lot of them are raining about the situations and conditions inside their jails. Hundreds more to come. We'll look at that in more detail and get your view on that. Plus a year on from the synagogue attack. One year on from the terrorist attack that claim the lives of two British Jews we've been given exclusive access to the Heaton Park synagogue. I'm LBC's Liam Gotting in Manchester. Well-fair changes that could act disability benefits for the young. Yes, you did hear that correctly. Here's former Labour Health Secretary Alan Milburn, I remind you, leading review into the number of people not in education, work or training. And he told me earlier this week. We should have a working space, not a welfare state, Nick. So the whole thing here is you've got a million young people not in education, employment and training. Too many of them are trapped on benefit. After a VAR as the Prime Minister committed a foul and an O, that's enough me.

45:58And an own goal over Manchester City, not above the rules. Number 10 forced into a clarification and we'll give you more details on that. And there. It's back with a vengeance, celebrity traitors, but we'll hear from the original traitor, Wolf Webster, how he rated the show. Adrian Sartre. The reality of those early releases, it's not those grinning convicts coming out with people waiting for cans of beer or what look like fizzy wine and cigarettes and the back of the motorbike and into a fast car and off we go and cheers and smiles and waves. The reality is a man who strangled his partner until she lost consciousness and left in thousands of pounds of debt is one of the violent criminals freed under the government's

46:58early release scheme. Domestic abuse has stalkers, repeat violent offenders who became eligible for early release in the next six months of left victims fearing for their lives. That is the reality. Expressed in part by victim's commissioner for England and Wales, Claire Waxman, telling my obviously colleague Andrew Marr last night, it is a dark day for the victims. We know that domestic abusers and stalkers are in this cohort that are eligible for early release and will be coming out over the next nine months. And so yes, there will be women and girls across the country who will have to live in the most awful state of fear and anxiety, waiting for their offender to come out with a real risk that they will reoffend. And in the last few minutes I asked aviation minister Keir May that whether he could assure victims they would be safe despite them not being enough tags for release. Well, these things happen in different ways in different places, some leave prison with the tags, some get them in the community, but there is an important thing to also bear in mind because you're absolutely right to say that victims need to feel secure and safe. We've got a really

48:04robust system in place where in consultation with victims and their families, we can draw exclusion zones that perpetrators cannot enter, where these people are tagged, their monitoring is extremely close. They are banned from attending football matches from attending pubs, so there is a robust system in place to do our utmost to ensure people safety. And on the subject of that government minister, in fairness, as around this time yesterday, we were talking about what would be the glaring incompetence it would appear as a deputy chancellor. I will share the praise that's coming in from a lot of people for minister Keir May that. David Sykes, give that government minister some praise, clear, concise, and polite, well done. This comes in Liam and Lisa, minister at last who appears to be switched on and knows his brief. I predict he might very well climb the ladder. You are not alone a lot of praise. Perhaps he'll go as far as another Labour politician known as Cold Keir. If he does, hopefully I would imagine he's going to last a little bit longer. But let's come back to those events that Jail's up and down the land, Gleeful in mates, thanking Andy Burnham, as they left Jail early. One criminal walking out of Brixton, Jail said he was over the moon. Asked if he had a message for prime minister, he said,

49:08yes, Andy, cheers mate. I appreciate it. Another prisoner also leaving Brixton, David Elliot, announced he planned to immediately reoffend, telling journalists, and I quote, I've got 360 convictions and an addiction to stealing. I'm going to go steaming again, whatever I get, whatever I get. So those are the people who are out. Mark Fairhurst, national chair of the prison officers association. Some of the prisoners gave us an insight into what life is like behind bars for them. What's it like for the colleagues that you represent? Mark, good morning. Good morning, Nick. It's absolutely horrific at the moment. We have severe staff insured to do this in many Jails. We can't retain staff who we recruit. And of course, the work and conditions and liver conditions compatible with each other. It's horrendous for prisoners. It's horrendous for staff as well under immense pressure. Can you walk us through the process by which prisoners who are eligible for early release are identified and do they have to satisfy any requirements as to their behaviour in Jail? Yes, so at the moment there is criteria for who is

50:13eligible for early release. And the admin staff in the offender management units will assess them and recalculate their sentences. Once you are eligible, it's just the case for those as prisoners. We get all your property together and we give you a discharge grant and you leave our care. And of course, once you've left our care, you are then the responsibility of an overworked, overstretched and under-resourced probation service. Is this a solution or a sticking blaster? This is the consequences of cuts from successive governments who fail to invest in the prison service over the last 20 to 30 years. For example, the last government closed over 20 public sector prisons. That meant we lost 10,500 cell spaces. If we did it invested in those prisons and modernised them, we wouldn't be in this mess now. So we need to really start invested in the prison service to prevent this in the future. Noting how the prison population, the numbers have increased dramatically over past decades, is there another argument here, Mark? We're putting

51:17too many people behind bars. I think we are and the biggest problem with these early risk schemes as the recall figures will prove. We are recalling significantly more people than we ever have. So are we going to be in this situation by the end of the year? So we need to do things differently. For example, Nick, if we invested in our communities, we create more secure mental health beds and rid our prisons of people who shouldn't be there, but are only there because there's nowhere else for them to go. We've got over 10,000 foreign national prisoners in prison. If we repatriated those people to their country of origin, we could create further capacity. And we've got a remand population approaching 17,000. Not everybody on remand is convicted of a crime. They're only charged with a crime. And not everybody on remand. This is a risk to the public. So we do have further options. But this is all about investment, Nick. We need to invest in our prisons and get this done immediately. So we can prevent this in the future. Lastly, put yourself in the shoes of your colleagues down at Brickston when David Elliott, upon being

52:21released, told journalists, made no attempt to cover his identity. And I'll quote again, I've got 360 convictions and an addiction to stealing. I'm going to go stealing again, whatever I get, whatever I get. That's a slap in the face of the men and women you out for, isn't it? It is, but this highlights the issue that we face. Prisoners are supposed to address offending behavior and put support services in place. So they leave us with hope and work skills. And can they get a job and can they go into stable accommodation? We can't do any of those things in overcrowded, dilapidated, violent, chaotic prisons. That needs to be addressed. Mark Foehous, your National Chair of the PEOA Prison Office Association. Thanks for your input. 11 minutes after. I'm listening, Hetty Barg with Nanton, who chairs the Board of Trustees at Refuge, the UK's largest specialist domestic abuse charity. And if I may, I just want to start to read you a little bit of what I said. One man who was jailed for three and a half years in January, pleading guilty to assault, occasionally bodily harm, engaging in controlling or co-host of behavior, strangled his partner

53:22with her own necklace until she passed out. It's going to walk free. What does that say for the people you act for? Good morning. Yes, good morning, Nick. Look, the people that we act for, they are terrified and a lot of that to be honest, is down to poor communication, to them there and certain what's happening. But I think we need to step back a little bit, because the example that you gave, that our laws around sentencing and the sentence of that perpetrator was given, meant that he was always going to come out early, automatically. He was probably going to come out halfway through automatically. All the time, he's coming out earlier than was predicted. A little bit earlier than was predicted and expected. And I think that's really important. And the other thing I would say from your previous speaker is this sort of oh well, it's subject of then behaving themselves. I can promise you from personal experience, it's absolutely isn't. The law on these sentences means they are automatically released,

54:24unless they actually do another crime in prison. And the example I would give is Robert Brown, who killed my close friend and he was given a sentence where he was, due to be automatically released halfway through. And without the Secretary of State intervening, he would have been released regardless of the fact he'd done no rehabilitation programs. He was still being a complete nut and last assist. So we've got to, I think, use this to recognise the law on sentencing or what's been going on for decades. What will the week end be like for some women now that they know their husbands, their husbands, their husbands, their partners are out free? They will be looking around, looking over their shoulders and they will be terrified. These crimes are, as we all know, well hopefully most people know by now, they're a pattern of behaviour and actually very few of them end up in the criminal courts much less convicted. So these women have almost certainly suffered for months, if not years, of coercion and violence and utter object trauma and terrorism,

55:32because that's what it is. So all of that now will be retrygared. They know what that perpetrator is like because they know them intimately and they will know no matter what safeguards they're told are in place, they will know that person will not obey those safeguards and therefore they are at risk in certain cases. They'll be feeling like they're at mortal risk. What should happen here lastly, Hetty? We need to have a proper root and branch review of actually the criminal justice when it comes to violence against women and girls and particularly domestic abuse and stalking because of the intimacy of the crime. It fails at every level and let me make that real. Many of these perpetrators are very dangerous and they could have been given a sentence in the court that would have given more protection and made their release subject to the parole board but they're not they're given these standard determinant sentences which results in early automatic release and

56:36ultimately puts victims at risk. So we need to look at it end to end root and branch and make sure they're convicted properly, they're sentenced properly and critically when they're released we've got really substantive measures in place to protect victims and tagging is no good if the alert that comes from tagging is putting a file and giving to the probation officer three days later it only works for these sort of perpetrators if it goes straight to 999 and creates an automatic response. Hetty, grateful for your input today. Thank you. Hetty Barg with Mountain. You chair the board of trustees at Refuge. UK's largest specialist domestic abuse charges calls already coming in on that and we will obviously take those calls and it's eight years on since the murder at the Hayden Park synagogue. Rabbi Daniel Walker's told LBC. The dominant emotion should we say was one really of shock at a level of hate. I haven't thank God. I've witnessed so much hate. The Rabbi talking about coming face to face with the attacker through the door window at that synagogue. Nick Ferrari at breakfast call 0356060973. So this was the view from the prison gates. I've

57:46already told you about the serial criminal David Elliott who said he's going to go roping again. Other people cheered and celebrators as they came out at once with a prisoner who died in an ad-advanced service David. So he was going to get some cababs. He'd been convicted of shoplifting a hundred times and said to Andy Burnham keep the early release going mate it's good. Tagging us is better than prison. This place ain't no good in its fall. The rapist child killer's emerged should stay in there but people like me shouldn't be kept inside for that long. I don't vote but if I vote I'd vote Labour. A prisoner called Dean who came out from a jail in Salford in Manchester said he was buzzing as there's big people in there they've got like years off. I've had to explain people don't even know who Andy Burnham is. I think he's a really good bloke. Meanwhile at Norwich jail shoplift to Lee Welling was promptly greeted by two police officers who served him with a stalking protection order and at Leeds prison, Leeds prison, a balaclava clad former prisoner shouted free the boys revving a dirt bike. So those are the sort of people

58:52and some of them are as I've said before convicted of violent offenses some of them in the field of domestic abuse. Now I know the problem was inherited. I've said that many times but to the point that we've just heard from the POA the Prison Office Association there are 10,000 people in our jails roughly roughly 10% give or take who are foreign inmates. Now even if they're going to have lawyers and whatever even if you only got 20% out of those suddenly suddenly you freed up thousands of prison places rather than releasing these people and when and I sincerely hope it's not you and I very much hope it's not me or any of my family but at David Elliott convicted thief is going to go un-equipped I'm going to go steening again whatever I get whatever I get so I don't know where this man lives I presume somewhere in London he was in prison in London he's out again and then there's the representative of the reputes the charity there's others

59:53let's see what you're saying on the emails and the tweets this comes in from Lloyd people released from prison earlier happy about it who would have expected that I thought they'd hate I thought they'd hate it I hear what you're saying Ian says regretful but if the perpetrator completed the whole sentence would the victim be any less terrified possibly not but the idea you get three and a half years and you're out now in 25% of the time or whatever that doesn't seem right does it Joe says these IPP sentences which are indefinite are keen to humane I cannot believe they keep people in prison like this over 20 years for the crime of arson you now get less for murder our prisons are surely full of lots of those they were made illegal they're still significant numbers of IPP prisoners with ongoing indeterminate sentences that go on and on with no end in sites as Joe in one so with all right we'll come back to more of those in a moment now a year ago today terror returned to Manchester with the attack on the Hilton Park Hebrew congregation synagogue the attack carried out by G had al-Shami left to men dead and rocked the city's Jewish

1:00:56community Cylian born UK says as an al-Shami was shot dead by police during the attack the attack in Manchester took place in on Yom Kippur the holiest day of the year in the Jewish calendar a year how is the community feeling now as any progress been made when it comes to tackling anti-semitism obviously his Liam got in went to Hilton Park synagogue to find out from global's newsroom at midday at least four people have been injured in a car and stabbing attack outside a synagogue in Greater Manchester well I remember arriving at the police cordon here a year ago and it was one of the most chaotic scenes that I've ever been a part of police helicopters flying overhead hundreds of people reading scripture trying to comfort each other one year on from that attack how is the community feeling now the hero rabbi of Hilton Park synagogue Daniel Walker who stared down jihad al-Shami in the face to keep his congregation safe as granted as access to this synagogue here and he's been recounting his memories of that day

1:01:58I heard what's on the bank from outside didn't really take much of it then probably seconds later one of the leaders of the community Alan running through those doors at the back there shouting shut those doors that one over there was open and Alan had been outside he did more happen it seemed we were coming under attack and so he ran in here and secure these these doors agent had secured the back so he was now contained and he was trying to get in through those doors was it yourself who came face to face with the attacker through the window was that you? amongst many of us yes what was that moment like when you can see his face you know here horrific the dominant emotion should we say was one really of shock at the level of hate I haven't thank god ever witnessed so much hate it just he just embodied hate and evil and I was just radiating well through his words but also his bottle language and what he was doing he was trying

1:02:58to smash a door and he was stabbing a door with his knife he was throwing plant pots and the doors why does this man hate us so bad 66 year old Melvin Kravitz was killed due to multiple stab wounds to his body inflicted by Jihad al-Shami 53 year old Adrian Dolby was killed by a stray police bullet that struck him in the chest the synagogue has put plaques on their usual seats to remember them maybe I would say that you know the world was okay because Adrian was okay it's funny it's innocent Melvin was a very hugerious character he was exceptionally kind man he's famous for everybody knowing him usually because it helped him in some way or another also joining us at the synagogue was Mark Levy the Greater Manchester Jewish Representative Council leader I asked him if over the last year he feels like the government has done enough to make him and this community here feels safe we thought I'll tow with a second last year had to be aligned in the sound how much worse could things possibly get unfortunately we were wrong because the situation now is far

1:04:01worse than it was a year ago what we need from government is for them to be brave and call out is a limits extremism because the answer cannot be to build high awards we need to actually combat the hatred and source look we're representative Mark Levy concluding Liam Gotting's report eight just coming on eight twenty seven let's get down in Lusham we're talking about early raised down thank you for holding on the line the point you want to make they they did inherit a crisis it's the handling of the crisis that we could perhaps discuss good morning good morning how you doing all right tell me your view on this yeah I'm the reason why the prisons are always full because the government made money out of prison I noticed I used to be a prisoner in fact okay I'm going to stop you there how do you know they make money I've done quite a lot of time in prison I see how they're running so all right let me give you an example okay yes the prisons in the cells you have a TV probably all like all you need to TV or will kind of be yeah very cheap

1:05:08so you've got like over 80 thousand prisoners in the prison system they all got TVs you have to pay a pound a week for these TVs the daily mail will tell you things like the prisoners got tv's made the public mad they're angry but the government are getting a pound a week from every one of us to rent these TVs now let's say they're getting 50 thousand pounds a week for these TVs if you add it up over a year that's two and a half million where did this money go where where where how I'm saying I've not heard this before where is a prison event to find that pound from their prison from their wages or for money what you get sent in right right a normal prison wage if you're unemployed in there you're getting two pound 50 you get two pounds you get two pounds to rent so sorry two pound two pound 50 sorry so two pound 50 a week or two I didn't I don't you want two pounds to be a week two pounds to be unemployed and one pound goes towards your television

1:06:10okay all right okay go ahead yeah so where does this money going it well hold on you you are of course receiving albeit you're in jail but you're receiving ball you're receiving lodgings and food yeah okay so that's vastly expensive and with the greatest of respect one pound a week is got anywhere near the cost of accommodation and feeding you right I don't want to be there no I would rather go home but I'm saying that's just one that's just one that's just one example of well I'm grateful and when you're missing so many many things yeah and down down down I have learned that every day is a school day I didn't know that and it is you're absolutely right and I'm grateful but I don't see that means you can say they make money it's vastly expensive to keep prisoner I've seen figures of 30,000 per annum okay I hear that what about this one then um it took out a tobacco yeah to bring in the paper for business to smoke

1:07:15to bring in the other things you know right yeah I do believe that um uh uh government ministers husband invested in that date from before they started bringing it okay but again and I'm grateful you haven't said a name because there's nothing to back that up but it costs around 35,000 pounds a year to keep someone injured it's it's a it's a kin to the fees at Eton school I just don't why is it why is it that all the prisons in England for England is the only country where the prison population goes up where the rest of Europe are closing down prisons um I I don't know that they're closing but they're not closing down in Poland because I know they're building something in Poland um sadly it's possibly because we're not causing the to my masking what what did you go what were your crimes um Gbh where robbery I was I was not packing the day in fact I'm packing the late 80s early 90s I remember when this situation of

1:08:22the prison spaces running out where they have to use the police stations to lock up prisoners right and they had to treat them as prisoners so basically they were getting run ragged and have you you sorted yourself out now yeah yeah you're in your job you're in a job yeah I'm done well done that's fantastic I'm really pleased for you thank you you've opened a window on a a life I don't know and I hope I never will get to know and I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this one so I take on board your point but I didn't know about a pound a week but it's 30 plus thousand a year thank you for your views we'll continue this conversation also coming up after the news as it said coming from Israel accusing Britain of being hell bent on destroying relations between the two countries and they said they gave the British government a tip off about that RAF Fairford incident what are our relations like for insects they had millaband speaking with me last month about that relationship we want a thriving Israel we want

1:09:23a prosperous Israel and we want an Israeli government we can work with you Nick Ferrari and breakfast on lbc call 0345 6060973 835 let's continue our conversation about those early releases bear is in flanethy news is hanging on the line thanks for holding on sir the point you want to make good morning oh good morning Nick yeah the point I'm I heard you could talk to the voter at the chat that was saying that he's going to start stealing the game he's got 300 plus convictions yeah yeah I did was the fall interview with him and I believe the reason he said that was on the back of that he's actually homeless and the prison system haven't helped him look for anywhere hence the reason he said you might as well start stealing the game right so I think the prison obviously they're releasing these prisoners and I think someone like him who's a shop thief you know they do need rehabilitation of some sort but they need support in to get it and I don't believe that I just

1:10:24is what he said sir yeah that's what he says and maybe that's why he's he believes or but obviously you can't get addicted to stealing in the way you know that you can get addicted to drugs or something I think he possibly need support to live and getting to like the normal system and he's just not familiar with flanethy sir but I know London well and I know Liverpool a bit better this week because I was there there are unfortunately plenty of homeless people they don't all go stealing they don't all go breaking the law yeah not everybody does but so there's no excuse to criminality is that there's no excuse at all and I believe yeah every prison sentence is a is a rightful prison sentence however but when they're in prison if they've got nothing else to go to and some of the reasons were to get them into prison I to get to make sure they got meals and stuff like that then they need some kind of help and support be it some kind of housing and some kind of work training schemes or something do you reckon of some of

1:11:26those 700 lastly who were released Barry many of them not all many of them will be offered some of those initiatives and they're going to go stealing again one of them was immediately re-arrested that's the odd in all cases but let's not have rose tinted glasses no no no we won't but I believe they might not okay if there's a minority that want to better themselves or but they can't because of the system you're the ones that do well to front it and carry on cracking on yeah come back come back down really hard on them and never give them an early release but the ones that I you know even if it was 10% of the people it's 10% less I still believe some people do need that help you know I've never been to prison but I do look at some of these people and you can just blatantly see they've got nothing they don't know what to do they need that support in like how to live a normal respectable life well that's where I've been blessed in that I had tremendous parents outside good couple of brothers as well and I was fortunate to go to peace and I realized for a lot of people that doesn't happen but again as regards criminality but Barry I heard what you say

1:12:31thank you will come tomorrow and that in a moment 838 how common are acts of true heroism they're not are they what was that rugby player Kevin Sinfield carrying his mate across that that was heroic behavior but this week we've another act another act of heroism with those extraordinary brave actions on board that fly Dubai flight as the plane from Dubai near to Israel the co-pilot reportedly tried to step what probably tried to kill his colleague and take control of the crowd and in the views of the Israeli Prime Minister take it into the ground and it was the heroism or the pilot and others and the passengers and the crew that prevented it so wouldn't it be good if Britain was proudly standing with Israel today and say what extraordinary actions were taking place over there well done rather than standing accused of being hell bent on destroying relations between the two countries despite Britain being a receipt from the government of a tip off about that alleged terror plot at RAF Fairford Israeli intelligence warned MO5 about an imminent Iran

1:13:36back to attack on the Gloucestershire base shortly before Ed Miliband the foreign secretary announced sanctions on goods from the West Bank I think that's worse reading again Israel intelligence warned MO5 about an imminent Iran back to attack on the Gloucestershire base shortly before foreign secretary Ed Miliband announced those sanctions and a senior Israeli official is now saying the warning related was realized weeks later an accused labor of trying to destroy ties with Israel by imposing sanctions to Stuart now Lord Pollack whose conservative peer and honorary president the conservative friends of Israel joining me now Lopella how would you counterize relations between the United Kingdom and Israel good morning good morning to you I'm actually here in in Tel Aviv the share the answer to your question sadly is quite simple they are as bad as I can remember I've been in this game a long time and I actually wrote a piece on the July July 16th just as Andy Burnham was taking over from

1:14:37Kierstarma and I I suggested that the government under Starmer was the worst for relations with Israel since Ted Heath and I my last paragraph on that day in July said that that Starmer leaves an in Delaware I'm just reading it though in Delaware will stay in on a foreign policy the UK can no longer be considered a friend of Israel we are at best an irrelevance and then I I did and with Andy Berman pledging to double down we may soon find ourselves becoming a foe and nothing that has happened since I wrote that piece in July has suggested to me that I wasn't right what was the reaction among commentators within the Jewish community to the imposition of those sanctions Lord Polar well I think what the you know the community is a wide ranging community

1:15:38and everybody has their view you know better than me you know two Jews three opinions and everybody has their everybody has their views but I tell you what bothered me what you know nobody can accuse and milliband of being an exciting speaker or you know somebody with but it's worth watching the bits of his conference speech where he talks about Israel where he talks about doing suspending whatever he wants to do and do that and making it difficult he suddenly became excited it's it's as if they are pleased to have been able to now be in this position to do this and I and that that to me is deeply deeply troubling and yet if I take you back to that Lord Polar he did reference his lineage and how the United Kingdom will provide a refuge for his relatives well of course he did but it suits him when his lineage also I think it's his mother and I forget it for Tom wrong who who was one of the first trustees of Jews for justice for Palestinians we've

1:16:41got no problem of justice for everybody but he he's now enacting everything that he was brought up in which is not and I you know his mainstream Jewish community views in fact what he's doing and what they're doing is making the lives of the Jewish community in the UK much more difficult okay how does the relationship need to be reset who needs to do what and well I'll tell you how I'll tell you how it can't be reset just before I came on you played a piece where or where Miliband was speaking and it's the last thing he said was we want in Israel and his really government we can work with there's an election process going on here it's as if he's like saying well we prefer something else interfering in an election from sitting there in in in whitehall and when you've got a hammer with a photo you were in Liverpool the photo of him with the Iranian foreign minister bowing his head who who did he get support for his speech he got

1:17:43support from Hamas last time I looked Hamas were a prescribed organisation in the as a terrorist organisation in the UK they're supporting they're thanking the foreign secretary so you know I need to remind I'm Ed Miliband the British Empire is gone the British mandate ended 78 years ago and you know Israel is the only place around this region that has proper and fair democratic elections and for him to start suggesting he would prefer a different government I think is outrageous he'd hated if somebody did that in an election over in the UK back home lastly and goodness knows so many theories are swirling around what might or might not happen of Fairford but one thing we do now know is that Israeli intelligence actually had warned MI5 had given us a tip off do you think that sort of level of intelligence intelligence sharing will continue I hope it does for the safety of Britain and the safety of Israel's safety of us all

1:18:48my my concern as I wear friendship though with respect law well yeah well yeah that's some way friendship but they don't last well at some point at some point you got this raise will potentially say well why are we doing this well they're just just a they're ignoring it which is their own safe so I think that this student politics of making these sort of announcements and getting excited making these announcements they know have no effect the way recognizing the Palestinian saying had no effect on the ground here it's student politics but actually it's the safety of of Brits the safety of his raided safety is is that risk here and they haven't thought this through and I only hope that they wake up and I realize that the the way forward is a proper friendship as you say a two way one grateful for your time this morning thank you Lord Polak has conserved appeared on a represident the conservative friends of Israel in an interview with Fox News Benjamin Netanyahu says the following we gave the about the Fairford event we gave the

1:19:50Brits the intel that there was going to be an attack and it's an Iranian sponsored attack and pretty much the next day they slapped sanctions on us it's wild the caving in the collapse of all the Islamist Marxist allies is very dangerous for the future of the West we'll pick up on your views from that also in the world of entertainment it's back traitors with a vengeance and you'll get a review from Wolf Webster and if you're a traitor fan you'll know he was the original traitor and I'm told runner up of the series one Nick Ferrari at breakfast call o3456060973 tenants for nine are going to be talking traitors in a moment of course years past traitors went to jail didn't they but we're talking about those early releases this one it took place yesterday this comes in from Danny send the foreign prisons back to their encounters on the condition they never stepped foot set foot on British soil again if they do they start their original

1:20:52sentence and add a further 10 years remember we heard from the prison officers association it's thought there's around 10,000 around 10,000 prisoners from prisons in our what's called arrestated it equates to about 12 something percent actually in Beckenfield this is an utter failure for this woford unept government yes they inherit the situation however they've been at the wheel for over two years is all they come up with marking leads has a similar point to you actually laborer nearly halfway through a governmental term and to say they've inherited the issue now doesn't wash are they saying they didn't know about the prison problem along with how bad the economy is and this fictitious black hole they've come up with a ridiculous idea which is doomed to fail one in one out anyone well of course that was ditch yesterday by the French wasn't it Jason's in Mariban let's talk early release of you Jason the point you want to make good morning morning it the hope you're well thank you that a lot of prisoners that get released end up reoffending and going straight back to prison so the problem we still haven't addressed in any

1:21:53way shape or form because prison isn't rehabilitating people which no it's a good point yeah it's a huge concern they're not they haven't actually done anything really because why they not tackle this from the other end so in other words too many people have been sent to prison and I said to I spoke about this a few months ago that if you gave if you went to the courts and said to people look if you plead guilty now you won't go to prison but you'll be tagged but if you do make mistakes whilst you're on tag you're going to get a more severe prison sentence surely that is going to be motivation to stop people wanting to go into prison to rather let them people out early stop people going into prison but it's not the on a danger I think you make an excellent point about rehabilitation is that going to provide for rehabilitation do you think well I suppose you could do more with people outside of prison than you can inside of prison so if you've got people that are on tag but you make them go to workshops for outside of prison you make them go and work in charity shops you make them work in certain charities with certain scenarios perhaps

1:22:54they can look at what they're doing wrong and try and change their life without being in prison here's a question and there's I don't know the answer and I don't think there is any answer and by the way I think an answer would be impossible so there we go I wonder what the percentages of those people who were released yesterday who genuinely if given a chance i.e. education possibly learning a trade let's remember what we heard from Darren who was candid enough to say that he's been in jail many times some pretty grave crimes including robbery and G.B.H. he's learned to trade he's a plumber he's now earning money paying his taxes there's no way he's going to go back inside I wonder how many of that would apply to I think it would apply to a lot I think half the problem or a big part of the problem is that ex-offenders aren't given opportunities when they come out so they're not they're not re-evitated whilst they're in prison and then when you come out of prison life becomes extremely difficult because you're an offender because you're an ex-offender you've got a criminal record so everything becomes really really challenging for you and isn't that where we look at the great work of people like Jim John Timp I think sorry I think it's Sir John it might be Lord Tumpson with

1:23:54Timp's and Sue they have a positive employment policy towards ex-convicts absolutely but unfortunately without sounding negative it's just it's nowhere near enough is it one one company I mean yeah he what he does is brilliant but his voice is gone quiet in the sense that it gets browned out because they're just the government are just not actually dealing with this problem they're not dealing to let people out early that aren't ready to come out it's not dealing with a problem Jason have a good weekend thank you right it's back and Traders is back with the Avengers now we had a long conversation we probably discuss this more than anything else this morning how far we go because I I'm acutely aware that we don't want to have any spoilers but as one of my was my senior colleagues said look it's only episode one it's not everything so we are going to have Sophie didn't watch it last night we're not going to give it all away but we've got to give a little bit of way because if you by the way

1:24:55if you go to a petrol station today a news agency supermarket anywhere near where you'll see the newspapers on the racks you're going to see that unfortunately this actor who I really really admire was made a bit of a fool of himself what are you Trader you're what Trader is a traitor are you no right what's the point of being the game if you're not right okay so that's Richard E Grant the great Richard E Grant speaking with Joe Lysett and I don't want to give it away but I don't think these necessarily they combine taxes of Alex works and then our same venga I don't know if it's the right way of thinking but I know someone who will know better wolf webster was the original traitor and runner up of series one joins me now I hope I don't know I have to ask did you watch it last night because otherwise we're in for a world of pain okay what did you make what do

1:25:55you make of it overall what did you make of a Richard E Grant's tactics morning you I think overall it's amazing watching celebrities how we see them and then you see them slowly become different people and they become scared and nervous like James A. Castell at the end yeah was a completely different person to the beginning of the episode but Richard Grant oh my god I thought he was joking I didn't realize he actually messed up and he did what happens to him now is he as they say to use them on expression is he toast no not at all like when we watched Alan Car well you'll thought he was toast didn't we after episode one and the end up winning so I'm not quite sure we'll see we'll see how it goes I think he's got to get through the next couple of days and just stay quiet basically if you were asked for from an emotional background two or three key pointers so that you play the game and you play to stay in not necessarily but no one wants to be the first or second to go what would those pointers be well

1:26:58separate the game from emotions I really struggled doing that so I cry quite a lot if you watch these are what you'll see out cry quite a lot but separate separate in the game from the emotions and also treat everybody like you don't know them a lot of them know each other but in this game you don't know anyone like everyone identifies differently in the game okay so obviously some of these people I mean I think two of the comments Robb and Rommesh I think they actually work together on tour so there's going to be a dynamic where they know each other very very well what will that bring to the process do you think Will? Well you can already see that really funny like when you watch it they're hilarious and I think one of the key things when you're playing a social deduction game is when people when you make people laugh people just can't believe it's you so they play they'll play really well together but they'll be a point where they'll have to turn on each other and I can't wait for that what's the best way to sell a lie the best way to sell a lie

1:28:00whenever I have to do not that I ever do I keep eye contact all the time absolutely eye contact I offer no facial expression whatsoever and when I finish the question I stop I don't I let just silence there silence is my friend so that's what next time I try and tell a lie to anybody I've just given it away but now gives me clear this is how you think the best way is to tell a lie or I know tell me something about yourself right but I've got to deduce whether it's true or false so tell me anything you like I don't know whether it's true I don't know whether it's false and I'm going to listen now let me watch it okay so I'm going to come slightly off you because I've been on the monitor which is so I've gone so I'm a professional dancer at a falsehood no nice true but your eyes look to where as you said it you couldn't keep eye contact yeah but the biggest lie is do keep eye contact I see because they know you they're lying that's one of the things that you've got all bluffed me will thanks you don't have to look at what you're up to do you want

1:29:02to advertise anything you do anything you put where you're dancing or what are you writing what are you doing but we've just started a new YouTube YouTube channel which is great so look at that but apart from that enjoy the show thanks mate thanks for your time wolf webster the original traitor runner up of series one right the conversation he's the runner up we have to move on and we come into story I mentioned briefly which is on one of your front pages this one welfare changes could be axing disability benefits for the young ministers working on that his former Labour Health Secretary Alan Milburn leading a review of course into those needs telling me in Liverpool earlier this week for every 25 quid that we spend on income support for young people we spend a pound on employment support even though over eight in ten of these young people who are not an education employment and training want to be working at an own goal by Andy Burnham over the Manchester City scandal I would be really concerned to lose them they've been such a huge partner in the building of modern Manchester those stories and more follow the 9 o'clock news on

1:30:05LBC this is LBC from global leading Britain's conversation with Nick Ferrari at breakfast good morning four minutes after night Friday the second of October we need to shake up the welfare system we need to cut those benefit payments that's been a running crisis not for all of you but for some and it would appear they're going to take action on the disabled young that's who's being targeted seems strange more in a moment plus an own goal for the PMO but this team simply the best so much better than all the rest Manchester City undisputed champions of the Premier League yeah man cheetah city as they're now being called as it was all built on the sham but what about the PM's involvement and a fairly rapid rowing back yesterday and have you seen it yet is a clue

1:31:16morning that's the 11th century Norman song the song of Roland heralding the arrival of the billier tapestry but some people are paying 50 pounds waiting weeks and then turned away I'll give you that particular story but I don't know whether I'm going to be honest whether to take sit whether I need to take the grandchildren whether I do I need to see it if you've been do let me know Nick Ferrari at breakfast call 03456060973 text 84850 Nick Ferrari at breakfast on ldc quite a way to do powerful front page for the guardian today getting away with an exclusive ministers are working up sweeping plans for welfare changes including scrapping a key disability benefit for under 25s now I've just pressed pause there because I have said many times that I think the welfare system needs a shake up and I've also said many times that there's a considerable amount of money to be saved and I think that's a rally and call call for for not all but for many

1:32:18poly politicians but the idea you'd look first at the young and the disabled young but I don't know if that sits particularly comfortably with me they say it will be replaced with a multi-billion pound package of support to get into work well again you've seen that in other areas and I'm sure everybody tries their hardest whitehall sources saying the package of changes was much bigger than previously thought as the government hopes to persuade more people on benefits back into work give me a call now will you own benefits and how were you persuaded or was it your wife your husband your dad whoever it might be your brother what what does that persuasion look like now as the paper notes this could be fraught with political danger to use there was after the dramatic welfare rebellion by labor MPs that was if you recall that was pretty much what newtards secure starmer because he stared down his back benches and he lost as simple as that the plans await the conclusion reviews by Alan Milburn of course you'll hear from Alan Milburn in a moment he's a good friend to this show he's looking at the young people's employment do you remember in the spring he

1:33:21came forward with the report which identified the high number of needs and then he said in autumn he'll come back with some ideas so here is mr. Milburn the former Labour Health Secretary serving under Tony Blair talking about those needs he spoke with me earlier this week at the Labour Party conference we should have a working space at all a welfare state now so the whole thing here is you've got a million young people not an education employment and training too many of them are trapped on benefit if you go on to a benefit today by a way and you get a health and disability benefit you stand a 50% chance in 15 years time of still being stuck on that benefit and unemployed why is that because it's sticky because it's sort of you know you're you're earning a decent living on the on the benefit it's not long money but you know it's secure and critically you're not being helped to get off it so if you think about the welfare state it's really two things isn't it it's income support which we give to people who are when it's needed if you're not working you've got disability or whatever and then its employment support helped to get you into work at the moment

1:34:24for every 25 quid that we spend on income support for young people we spend a pound on employment support even though over eight in ten of these young people who are not an education employment and training want to be working and they need some help to get there so that's why we've got a welfare state what you need is a working state that says the starting point should be for every single young person who can there should be in work and if we can help them we should do that for the small minority who've got a enduring severe complex need of course then there should be security and the state should step in and because people like that can't earn the state should give them a proper income our receptives Andy Burnham John Healy to that message I think pretty receptive if I've obviously had a lot of conversations over the course the last few weeks and months about this you heard John speech yesterday which I liked I like it when a chancellor uses the word down payment when he says there's a hundred million pounds available to create more apprenticeships I view that as a start not the end we need a lot more apprenticeships the number is fallen by

1:35:28about third for young people over the course of the last ten years young people are clamoring to get them there aren't enough of them employers would like to gift them so there's some things that we can really share wouldn't it be more sensible to spend some money on apprenticeships than spend some money on welfare payments get people into work get them paying their taxes that's the way you get the benefits bill down Alan Milburn speaking with me up in Liverpool well here from an expert Laura Jane Rawlings interest rent but here's what I understand to be the figures around 184,000 young people in the UK age between 16 and 24 receive universal credit the government has already cut this having previous announced a 50% reduction to 217 pounds a month for most new claimants from next year Laura Jane Rawlings is CEO of youth employment UK start wherever you see appropriate Laura Jane what you've heard from this report from the newspaper or what you heard from Alan Milburn how do you want to take it forward good morning good morning Nick I'm just feeling quite frustrated this morning yes there is a big welfare cost yes it needs addressing yes we want young people

1:36:33in work those are things I wouldn't argue with but this really feels like something else is going on there's a different undercurrent you know we've appointed Milburn to do a really good review I have been so impressed by that review and rather than wait for his full findings we're now deciding what things were going to cut and that's been a bit of a legacy of governments this one and previous that we appoint experts and then don't listen to them young people aren't choosing benefits that's not their first you know made of operation but that anyway do go on Laura Jane right and and you know in Milburn's diagnostic he said the system is not working the mental health sports not there the disability systems not there colleges schools educators whoever don't have what they need to help these young people and there's a lack of vacancies at what point just cutting benefits address either of those two ends of that problem in how we're preparing and supporting young people or how we're doing job creation I think if we spent more time thinking

1:37:36about job creation and helping employers you'd find that those young people would have opportunity wouldn't need the welfare state can you give me a sense of the sort of benefits these people are in seat of yeah so you'll see some young people like we said who might be on universal credit which is around about 11 pound a day you know this is not a life changing some of money for young people that they can live off those young people then who have health conditions and complex health needs might also be on the pit payments which will be larger and dependent on their conditions and you might see some young people on housing benefit as well you know the there are some young people that simply cannot live at home with parents and without work we find themselves in precarious living arrangements so there there'll be a staffable kind of payment welfare system based on the young persons need but I don't think you know these young people are choosing that over having a fulfilling job that gives them purpose the report suggests that coming hand in hand with these

1:38:40potential acts of benefits will we come a back to work scheme that you briefly touched on how do you think a back to work scheme should function well in the current universal credit system already there is a requirement for claimants to be looking for work to be accessing support the job centers offer support for claimants and there is conditionality so if you're not showing that you are making progress then you can have your benefits cut so it already is that in the system the issue that is being avoided here is how you can get employers to hire these young people and create good employment conditions you know for them we've got entry-level cuts everywhere less apprenticeship opportunities employees thanks to expensive to hire people economic conditions are terrible for those employers that's the that's the bit that needs to be attention I was just in China recently and you know there's a lot to there's a lot going on over there but actually what you can see is a government that is creating jobs by investing what we're looking at doing is removing

1:39:45and investment and taking away benefits lastly what would you when you talk to young people in this age group are struggling to get into employment what is the biggest hurdle for them Laura Jane a lack of work experiences what they've told us initially is youthful census and a lack of good jobs where they live so we're seeing some regional disparity about where the job distribution is and the types of opportunities available so young people really recognise that you know they're turning up to school they're turning up to college they're doing what they can there is ready for workers they can be without work so we have got to find work experience and we've got to recreate an entry-level system and particularly in the view of what's going to change with AI coming down we've got to find ways to help employers recruit our young people thanks your time this morning Laura Jane Rawlings your CEO of youth employment UK calls coming in on that already is there a need for reform of the welfare benefit system downright there is do you necessarily go after disabled young people not quite so relaxed about that but we'll pick up on your views and to

1:40:49my contributors point that why would you commission a report from Alan Milvin who I'm going to say I believe is one of the better blitz and then decide to start floating these measures before he's so he always said he would hit give us the problem in the spring and offer solutions in the autumn and we're jumping ahead of that what's the thinking there in other news coming up after the headlines back of the net well Martin Martin Tyler probably shouldn't have done that was said you are a wearer of gold for Manchester City which clinched on the Premier League title back in 2012 but that could be an own goal for the Prime Minister I'll explain why after this Nick Ferrari and breakfast on LBC call 03456060973 come on let's go after those welfare let's go after those benefits grounders let's target them let's let's go after the disabled young

1:41:51it if the report is right I find that extraordinary Catherine's in brain tree your reactions that Catherine good morning good morning Nick what can you tell me I'm an other follower of your show and I've never called I've never called him before but I felt really I really felt I had to call in and speak to you what's the view from brain tree come on laid out for me Catherine okay I have four children but one of them is 17 and currently out of education and employment right she left school at six after GCSEs did she is is that right yeah she did her GCSEs did really well went to college but her disabilities have taken a dramatic decline in the last year or more do you want to share with me what they are there's no reason why you don't have to for one moment well she primarily has a problem with her joint and collagen it's mainly hypermobility but

1:42:59suspected further but it causes her dramatic fatigue and all over body pain she can barely function frankly she's in a wheelchair a lot of the time to move she can manage top of her e-moo walk maybe 50 yards before it causes extreme pain she's are there jobs she would be able to do no well that's the problem because even sticking up requires because of the ligaments and collagen lachos or she struggles to sit up even so for a lot of the time she has to lie down and rest so she struggles with something called pots which is something when you stand up it causes blood pressure loss and she sometimes flates the faints and collapses so at 17 it's quite a lot to deal with and she has trapped she wants to work she had her dream set on musical theatre

1:44:02she worked really hard through school and struggled through her conditions hoping it would get better but tell me what she is supposed to do when she struggles with all these conditions and they're proposing to cut for those that actually need it and so she's lucky and now she can live at home with us for the fourth year to be online my asking and you don't have to answer any of the following questions what is she in receipt of presumed she nothing currently we've just started to process a universal credit because clearly in the current situation what she doesn't get you see and not right now she's waiting she's just just applied we are considering the route to pick because clearly she's going to need to have some form of supporting herself financially as we can't continue we've lost all of our child benefit for her now that she got medication so we can support her to a point but she is a young adult who wants to have her own life going forward and how on earth

1:45:08I have no idea I have no idea what the future holds for her what would you say to the people within the government who are planning they've not I want to stress it's not come in but who are planning these changes what would you say to them I think that they need to take proper they don't need an overall outright ban they need to take and know it's costly but they need to take each case seriously individually and for those that generally cannot genuinely cannot work and I'll track between they need to really affect how how that person is supposed to live and independent life going forward give my best wishes to her and indeed the whole family lovely speaking to her first time all those are very serious issues we're discussing Catherine thank you best wishes to her first class first time be it like Catherine get it off your chest get it on the radio call me on that number zero five don't know what the next one number is having done for 20 plus years not going to start now on this subject chance says my son is desperate to get a job he gets around 350 on UC 200 pounds on pit he's mildly autistic and he can't get a break due to a lack of experience

1:46:14experience he'll never get unless someone gives him a chance why not often employers that money for say 12 months is an incentive to take the youngsters on and give them a chance of getting experience Nick and Croydon in the last year I've gone from a six figure salary to now living on universal credit take any way for me and I'm homeless if normal working people don't have money at the end of the month what do you think UC claimants will have less than nothing do keep them coming on that all right in other news and to when sport comes off the back pages and onto the front pages one paper today the son own gold you turn as fans blast Andy Burnham this is the prime minister reacting early to the week that Manchester City owners might have to sell up I would be really concerned to lose them they've been such a huge partner in the building of modern Manchester and obviously the building of Manchester City into the global force that it is I can't intervene more in the process it would be wrong for me to do that it would be wrong I think to jump to a conclusion before having really studied all of the detail but obviously it's ongoing and because

1:47:19it's still contested by Manchester City then I think it's right that I don't say much wide spread condemnation of the prime minister's remarks number 10 forced to put out a statement as the prime minister made clear the initial judgment is serious and there can't be any suggestion that anyone is above the rules he also stresses an ongoing independent process it's a sensual it's allowed to run its course and the outcome respected wherever wrong doing is established those responsible should face the appropriate consequences Pete Hall is north west football correspondent for the i-paper probably in the heart of football actually a moment in this country where suggestions got most of the big teams around it and he joins me now Pete is gone to the VAR is it an embarrassing home goal morning to you good morning Nick yes yesterday isn't I especially the backtracking when I did especially like the line on the on the statement where he says the prime minister has been clear he hasn't been clear he said completely he said completely the opposite in what he said first time around and I understand the Nibbunna's point of view because

1:48:21she's man sure and Abu Dhabi a united group have been a huge part of Manchester Manchester has been absolutely transformed but what have they provided they put in infrastructure and roads and things like that and parks what is it they've actually provided in in plain terms Pete so it splits into two really so with Manchester City they've just completely regenerated the entire area they built a brand new training facility they revamped the stadium and apartments and transport links all around it have been massively improved lots and lots of jobs have been created and then their other investment is in Manchester City Centre they've rebuilt whole areas like Angcoats for example has been completely transformed into luxury mostly luxury apartments it's one of the most desired areas of Manchester City Centre to live so it's two part really but the main the main part ownership and the main benefit of having them on board for Andy Berner when he was mayor of Manchester was the money I'm sure it was what is the judicial process that will now be applied to

1:49:27Manchester City and its owners so they're going to they're going to officially announce they're going to appeal today and their argument is going to be despite the fact they claim they're not stay-towned that the payments to Manchester City came from the government rather than the sponsorship sham partnerships as the Premier League called them so City are going to have something up the sleeve they've got the best lawyers in the country no expense has been spared we're talking hundreds of million you know it will be hundreds of millions by the end the legal bills no they're going to have something up the sleeve for them to be this bullish at this stage when the Premier League have this ardent in their guilty guilty verdict and that detailed we didn't expect to have this much detail at this stage they're going to have something up the sleeve so this is going to drag on for a long long while yeah tell me what might the sanctions be so if the guilty of the 114 of

1:50:31115 charges then it has to be a severe as possible punishment now I've spoken to a lot of people this week as you can imagine who have who have varying views on what should be the punishment it's going to be at the very very least an almighty unprecedented points total that would probably almost certainly mean that they get relegated so you're talking 50 60 points but people are saying that's not enough we're talking years and years of transfer bans and other things but if I'm Erling Harland right and I'm earning 500,000 pound a week I don't necessarily want to play at Bromley next year or against the cream of British soccer lester city that's my own personal pain I don't need to share that with you okay but I don't I don't want to turn out at Bromley or I don't know crew do I can I can I effectively walk away from a contract no they haven't got so this is this is the thing about city knew about this before the summer so they knew they were going to be

1:51:33guilty before the summer and they still spent 400 million on new players and none of which have got relegation clauses in the contracts and because they just didn't think this you know they thought they think they're going to be able to fight this they're still so bullish I think they can be able to fight it's but if I'm a lawyer for heart or one of those players can I say ah but when I signed my player to your books I didn't know you were guilty of 115 charges ago I think you've counseled the contract by your way would there be an argument for a lawyer there well I think it'd be more of a more likely there'd be a fire sale I don't I don't think city you've got to fight the players over this because they might need the money to pay off all the enormous fines that they're going to have to pay but the thing is and as I said earlier Nick this is going to drag on for years yet so the players aren't panicking yet lastly you're the eyes northwest of your correspondent so you haven't just got city you've got united down the road or up the road or across the road you've got Liverpool or Everton what's the rest of the football community saying

1:52:35well I thought I did think people have been a bit more adamant that city would be let's get them out the league let's demote them down the leagues that's really punishment punished them but there's kind of a mixed reaction at the moment because what you've got a bear in mind is Nick is there's going to be repercussions way beyond this case so Premier League clubs up and down the country I've got to try and sue Manchester City for compensation for missing out on Champions League missing out on prize money and it's good to drag on for years and years it's going to make the Premier League a legal mess for years and really nobody's good nobody wins because it's going to be an awful place it's going to it's going to deter investors there's so many downsides to this that clubs are like yes city deserve to be punished but are we going to be better off maybe not lester city need those six points bet like down this major city I'm not asking you out for a drink or taking you from here what are you doing Sunday week then where are you going to be peep for the eye paper oh well low and behold I may be down the m62 to a certain

1:53:36unfield where I think maybe the atmosphere might be might be a little bit techie how do the people who do the fixtures get often if a player sells their key player to another club the first game they play is against this and this will be Liverpool Manchester City Sunday week the broadcasters are rubbing their hands that atmosphere is good I think I'll get there early yeah and tell me you get paid for this do you you're doing pretty well for thanks Pete enjoy speaking have a good weekend peephole northwest football crossman of the eye newspaper coming up after the new singing a different song ria ria there is the 11th century norma song the song of roland ushering in the bayour tapestry where people are paying 50 pounds waiting weeks and then when they get there turned away due to corporate deals but if you've seen it is it worth seeing anyway Nick for one re at breakfast call 0 3 4 5 6 0 9 7 3

1:54:39right they reforms the welfare reforms that many people say are necessary but it would seem fit and I say this is not policy but being planned certainly being planned and the government don't deny it in their sights of the disabled young marks in wigan being hanging on the line appreciate the time you spent on the line the points you want to get across mark good morning sir hello Nick I hope that I'm coming through clear and much later go on yeah oh you're not now come in mark come in mark one no oh what a I promise baby we will get you I promise but I've got to move on now uh someone are on you about Alex and Camden you're on the radio good morning Alex hi next good morning the point you said the point I wanted to make was that if the government and not just this government any government didn't have such a downer on small business then we could employ people give them that first break we could employ local people we're not after and we're not going to get the odds bridge maths and science graduates no we're going to get people who are in

1:55:42our community in all shapes and sizes we'll take them on we'll keep them on they've got character they've got a contribution to make but we have just been smothered by the bureaucracy and the same treatment that's that large businesses get that we simply can't cope with I need a bit we're doing on the line can I ask you what your business is yes I'm in residential rental and development so what jobs would the people you hire would be like managers of the properties that you have is it or actually working on the yeah handyman gardeners right do I the people a bit you know with a bit of a skill that they can develop we used to do that my business is a family business it's been going for more than 70 years that's how we used to operate what what what changed and when Alex oh well when that came in I had a when what came in the line click yes this was this idea

1:56:43that every employee should have a pension provided oh yes yes yes I had an alcoholic poor chap on my payroll and we just dealt with him we just you know we tolerated it up to a point and then Nest came in and I had to give this guy threatened to keep an ear and register for him on Nest and then all kinds of and then and then when when when we really had a lot of problems with this chap I mean it was really what you know probably farables of grossness conduct we had to bring in a mediator a represent employee representative I mean that the whole thing just became a massive bureaucratic nightmare and I saw after that I just basically fired everybody and used contractors for everything now apart from members of my family who who stepped in from now and so the family firms run 70 odd years at its pomp at its peak and I hope it's doing well now how many non-family

1:57:43would it employing four or five and now it's just not worth it correct and I bet if you could because we're talking specifically here Alex about young people who have certain disabilities you if it's possible you would work around that and find office work for kiddie as an audience yes of course I would yeah I mean absolutely you know I'm you know we all have communities and we all you know I'm cracking on a bit and I want to do my bit for young people and yeah I'm sorry why did you are I just I love that situation I'm cracking on a bit you want to go you want to you want to go down to the coast and run a pub I'm only kidding I can't think of it in worse no no no I want to do my bit I absolutely want to do my bit but but you see the problem is when government thinks of business it thinks of big business government has to concern in my understanding public sector and big business small business is is to abstract to deal with because nobody really wants to engage with

1:58:46somebody who can deal make an incremental difference of two or three people it's just not worse anyone's wild they just don't think like that you do and good luck with the businesses I thoroughly enjoyed your call good luck with what all the colleagues that you still have will I appreciate the raw family members and you want to offer more employment come more of your calls on that in just a moment but I have mentioned the Buu'er tapestry if I'm saying that correctly and is it guilty of a bit of a stitch up you saw what I did there hundreds of ticket holders hoping to see were left angry and frustrated early this week after queuing up for an hour and to be turned away in the British Museum closed record event some denied entry had traveled thousands of miles to see it ticket holders from the US a set of bin mong those turned away the British Museum has apologized and I will read more of their apology in a member one person caught up with this is Nick White who had a ticket for that day and was turned away due to a private event and Mr White joins me now thank you very much for coming on if we can just go sort of through the chronology of this is it something you've always been interested in was it well it's in the

1:59:47country I should say why did you choose to come up to town and where did you come from good morning hi good morning Nick we we came up from the South Coast so we certainly didn't travel the thousands of miles that people from the US did no it was simply something we would like to see it's a big event they're being in this country I have seen it in Bayer and I know I can't pronounce that properly but how much did you spend and tell us what happened when you actually got there imagine you had to queue for a while yeah so I mean I'm guessing we probably spend getting on for a hundred pounds in diesel and and parking plus the ticket costs is it 33 pounds am I right yes that's correct yeah yeah yeah so so we arrived as it said on the ticket it's 15 minutes before your timed entry which was at 230 so you join a first queue which stretches out into the great court the British Museum the central court after half an hour or so queuing there you go into the second queue

2:00:48where you are waiting we were there for probably another half an hour of not a bit longer then you finally get into the first part of the exhibition um whether it's really nothing to see but you're in yeah and snake through the queue they're slowly they were letting in small groups at a time into the actual exhibition space we were two or three people from the front of the queue when activity stopped and then after about 20 minutes or so some poor people came out and basically said sorry we're closed you have to go I'm handed out bits of paper with which gave you very little information just that they've had to close here's an email address we might be able to give you tickets or we may have to give you a refund and no explanation and it was only I can be a bit balsier times but I think I was I was quite kind I approached several members of staff to ask what was happening and it was them that told me it was a corporate event so

2:01:49and it turns out it was it was and I allowed to say who the event was go ahead yeah it was an event sponsored by Samsung how did you feel I felt absolutely gutted um I was getting really excited my you know I think my husband was getting bit upset by how excited I was but yeah I was I was gutted and and really angry I'm I was careful not to take my anger out and any of the stuff because it it wasn't their fault but there were people they're getting very angry and understandably so now the museum has said and I quote we have apologized to those affected and giving a refund as well as rescheduling their ticket for free this was an isolated situation we appreciate visitors patients understanding let's go to the first bottle though have you had your apology have you had your refund and have you had a rescheduled date um that's no to all of those questions I emailed the email address they gave and have had no response at all that's outrageous um I tell you let's let's out us make representations because often when the media gets involved they suddenly

2:02:52realize that emails the emails can be sent just a word on this understand you you're in in the antiques businesses that right that's correct yes yes how's that trade at the moment it's it's surprisingly good yes and what sort of things do you sell me we sell a bit of everything we're very much a proper traditional antique shop um good quality what's it cool I'm emitting white antiques and you're in is it pronounced Alphiston Alphiston yes some people say it's Alphiston but I still say Alphiston and it's it's a lovely village well worth visiting yeah and so is it people coming in is it is it online or where is the trade coming from would you say it's primarily people coming in we're very lucky we have some some excellent hotels and we're still very much your tourist hotspot hotspot okay um stay on the line we'll talk to the British Museum see if you help and then we might come with you not we know we can't get in I'm not so we'll come in with you and maybe do a report when we actually get you and your husband over the line so if you stay on then I just have a quick word Nick White who's a ticket holder who's turned away on Wednesday because of a private event doesn't appear to have been very handled particularly well I have read out

2:03:53the museum statement so I don't intend to write it out a redo again not least it doesn't appear to be held in factual possibly more out by the way have you seen it I was do I need do I need what we got told July do I need to turn it to some great family event where the whole gang of us and I think I've got a football team now we all troop past the Beyer tapestry is that what I do do let me know Nick Ferrari at breakfast call 03456060973 while I really do want to talk to you about the Beyer tapestry Robin please do I must get Mark and Wiggin on the line because we he just got on and then the line fell off I hope it's a better line Mark can you hear me this time yeah I hope to I hope so too Nick go ahead so the points you want to make okay I think that there is a need to help people on benefits into work but I don't think that that's really what this is going to turn out to be for a couple of reasons one I think the government don't know what it's it's like

2:04:55on the ground I think that the people make these policies are well out of touch and I think that they they just want to find money from somewhere with the big project that they want to fund make you think they don't know what's happening on the ground well I was I was on benefits for a while for like the best past 10 years maybe a bit more right and I think my time with from the job center I think they if I mean one job I had some issues health issues going on some mental health issues and it's getting better there was no real input at all when you say well from like what they call job coaches or people like that no one really helping you is that right there was no job coach I suppose there was there was no looking at all there was no there was no reassessment there was there was no nothing so how long ago was this one mark uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh 2013 I mean they're meant to have had these coaches and schemes have met them in around for decades

2:06:00clearly no help for you whatsoever on paper I think they exist on paper which is where I think that John Healy was it was talking about this yeah yeah I think it's to Healy and the PM yep when you go right um I think that they they're just looking on paper thinking um okay there's a bit of a there's like let's say a black hole of money the money's just we're losing money we're bleeding money maybe we can plug it here and then we can save a bit for some of our projects I just don't think that it's it's going to work on paper let me ask you this are you an employment now mark yeah I got my first job a couple of years ago um I was uh 34 and um you know I started to really get my life turned around all the time years ago something like that yeah yeah I don't want to know the firm you work for what is it that you do um I'm a support worker in a in a car hole my work mostly with the elderly with um advanced well with complex candidates yeah yeah that's

2:07:01a challenge buddy I enjoy it and I'm a student last as well I'm in my second year doing my degree so it's a big show run from 10 years ago your life's on track is it isn't it aye aye it's going in the right way I'm so thrilled for you do stay in touch well done but I'm so glad we got you on a stronger line as well that's great good luck you make you deserve the the breaks that are coming your way although golly doing that work on that nursing with those so that's going to be some stressful stressful days mark thank you let's talk well for a nice and impressive what do you tell me Nigel hello I think like you we've previously called I think there is a question of does the government really know what's going on on the ground and on benefits with the young people um we've recently had a friend who openly admits that they've struggled getting their child into work because um all of our friends are obviously 16 to 20 year old who don't have an academic background are actually on benefits whilst doing

2:08:05cash jobs during the week so he's a benefit he said it was a tough problem a boy or a girl this person um a boy so he turns around and says look at my mates what why why should I do that that's exactly what he was saying and he was saying he he's actually earning less money in a full-time job because he's having to pay tax and national insurance and his friends are staying in bed collecting benefits whilst doing cash and paying jobs during the day when did the deal get broken because when I was that kind of age I couldn't get out quick enough to earn some cash to try and save up to buy a card to put petrol in the car where did that all go wrong um I don't have to count on to that Nick but um I think I think society has changed since your day and my day where where we were brought up with values we were brought up with respect to respect to the financial background um I think those days have gone unfortunately um and you know the policies that are

2:09:05there that have been brought in now unfortunately it's a it's a pretence that the values and respect of the 60s and 70s is to let today and I don't believe that to be the case I fear you might be right sport that's a very telling story isn't it Nigel thank you for that um let's finish thanks again best wishes to the fella so what have you got planned for the weekend are you going to try and see the be your tapestry if I'm saying that correctly what about the gentleman with whom we were speaking who probably by the time he paid the petrol in the parking and obviously the tickets 200 maybe a little bit north I don't know if they stopped and have a meal on the way home or whatever but it's a lot of money and they didn't even get to see it but are they missing anything do I need to take my entire family up there robins in south hantan robin what happened to you good morning good morning yes I would say do take the family up because it is an amazing thing to see oh you've done it have you sir yeah yeah no I was very lucky I told the tickets to sold out but my wife went on to the website um when we had a day off the next day and saw that they were for going for the next morning

2:10:071130 so we yeah what a drought we we snapped them up to train up from south hantan we arrived in good time at 1115 and as the previous caller said um you go in and you're thinking right 1130 tickets would be looking at the tapestry by 1130 at 1230 we were still standing in the line I thought there was meant to be is it your 30 minutes and you moved on or something I can't well they they tell you when you arrive that you're going to get 40 minutes sorry with with the um with the tapestry but what that actually involves is 20 minutes of that minutes is standing in a dark corridor overlooking the tapestry before you then get down and you're being shuffled along to try and use the other 20 minutes up so you can have the face to face experience but the tapestry is 18 meters long and so is the corridor that runs above it and in that queue there must have been I think at least a hundred people many of them pensioners there was only four seats there was no toilet no refreshments and no photography was

2:11:11taking place this is a week before they said there was going to be a ban and blaming the public for the delay but when you get down there if you've been waiting a thousand years and an hour to actually see the thing then you're not going to be rushed you're going to actually take a bit of time to have a good look at having been there been there done it scene it how would you organise the queuing or the whole process then Robin well I would I think what's happening is they're getting a log jam at the start and they and they're failing to clear it so either sell fewer tickets and allow the queued food and unwind naturally or build in some buffer time so that if there isn't a queue it can be it can work this way out ultimately 33 quid or 66 or whatever well spent very well spent but don't go to the gift shop I bought the I bought the cometer's a Christmas decoration decoration I thought it was a biver who have 15 quid each or Robin but a day you'll never forget let's look at the positives thank you Robin a minute to

2:12:13James in gillingham James what are you going to tell me good morning well thanks for taking my calling I'll be very quick I'm I didn't know of you yourself with your listeners know that there's a full-size replica exact replica of the biotape street a reading read it yeah yeah it is a reading well my my great great aunt maybe another great adding onto that Elizabeth Ward will create it with the ladies of leak there are about 35 ladies and they created it through I it took them about that two years I think so how far are we going James what sort of year are we talking about roughly 1865 this I think they did it right and they basically certainly tiny bits of missing and they thought maybe it was a down to prudishness because maybe some bits were a bit violent but actually it's because the photographs that were given by the museum the Albert museum or where it was to the ladies were kind of wrong and so that they they followed the photographs but anyway it's at the Reading Museum and if anyone can't make it to the real one I suggest going to see that one and you've done a brilliant plug and good luck to you great great great great great

2:13:13aunt whatever it might be James you had to last word of the week if you missed any of the show listen back on a free global player app or the LBC app where you can stay up to date with all latest news videos and opinion download the official LBC app for free from your app store now that's it I'm done for the week James I'm waiting the other side of the news here on LBC I'll be back with you Monday morning from 7me time have a safe weekend this has been a global production