Reimagining Wellness: Karen Bentley on Stopping and Harmlessness

0:00You know that moment when you realize the way you've been thinking about wellness might be missing something. Not wrong exactly just incomplete, like you've been looking at one corner of a much larger room. Today we are stepping back to see what else might be there. But we might have overlooked on how expanding our view changes everything about how we care for ourselves and each other. I am Navya and you are listening to Wellness Reimagined, where we explore the intersections of mind, body and spirit in ways that honor complexity and welcome curiosity. Today I am sitting down with Karen Benquill to explore what it really means to re-imagined wellness from the ground up. Hi, Karen, it's great to have you here with us. I know, Navya. Thank you for the invitation. I'm grateful to be here.

1:01Thank you so much. So Karen, before we begin any quick introduction for our listeners to know you better. I'm the author of over 17 books. My latest one is The Warrior Strong Manifesto. And it's a revolutionary book about the conservation of life, energy. And if you'd like to learn more about me, go to my website KarenBentley.com. Thank you so much. I'm sure you're going to be very insightful and very beautiful section. Thank you. Karen, let's just start it off with something which is quite common. When most people hear the phrase about wellness re-imagined, what do you think they get wrong about what that actually means? I think what they get wrong is that they don't, they want to do more. What can I do more? Affirmations and journaling and praying.

2:02And I'm not saying that any of those things are wrong or not helpful. But it's really about doing less. It's not about adding more. It's about stopping some of the things that you're already doing. And one of the most important things that we all need to become more aware of for our mental health and our physical health and our emotional health is the idea of becoming harmless. It's a really radical idea that isn't discussed very much. And none of us think of ourselves as being harmful, which is hurting self or another. But because we think of harm as physical harm, you know, or shooting somebody or assaulting somebody. But we all go to the dark side. You know what I mean by that? We all use dark side practices to get people to do what we want. And every time we do, it makes us feel bad about ourselves. And when you feel bad about yourself, it's very hard to think of yourself as worthy of

3:08having good health and good relationships and money and everything that you want in life. So it's really useful to become aware of your own harmful thoughts and to neutralize them. We can't prevent harmful thoughts from coming to us because we all have an ego, which I like to call the ego robot because, you know, it just comes to us automatically. We have really no control over it. The only thing we can control is neutralizing it and saying, okay, I don't want to keep that wretched thought. I'm going to just get, I'm going to neutralize it. And that's all we can do. That's the best. So I have a story to share. Can I tell it? Of course. So in my country, I live in the United States and in my country, we have the practice of sending Christmas cards. Do you do that in India? Do you send cards? Are Christmas, do you celebrate Christmas? No. I'll have to let's come in a family, please do. Not everybody.

4:08Christmas used to be a religious occasion. Now it's just kind of eating and gifts, but, but, but, but anyways, the practice is to send a card and and and the current practice is to send a picture of your family as as your card so that you can see what everybody looks like. And last year, I moved to this crazy residence, which is a church and I'm living very inconveniently in this church. You know, it doesn't have modern conveniences. And I'm all by myself. I don't have a husband. I don't have a family. And I got for a Christmas card this this picture of my cousin who I love, I love her, but she had everything I didn't have. She had a husband standing next to her on one side and he was looking at her so adoringly and she had a grown son on the other side and he's looking at her so adoringly and they're scanning in front of the big suburban house, the big expensive suburban house and with the big wreath and it's so beautiful.

5:09And I have loving my heart for this woman, but at that moment, I was jealous. I was really jealous. She had every I didn't have a man. I didn't have the kid. I didn't have the suburban house. I was like, whoa. And I was so jealous. And I wanted to take that picture and I wanted to throw it in the garbage because I didn't want to see that she had what I didn't have. You know what I mean? And so I had this dilemma. I know that I have love in my heart for this woman, but I had hate in my mind and which one was which one was true, which which was real. And so it's important to me to experience myself as a loving being. And so I wanted to neutralize that hateful thought. And I came up with this little exercise that I was going to do to help myself to do that.

6:10And you know, people think that you can just decide once and be done with it. Oh, I'm not going to have that hateful thought and be done with it. No, it took me like three weeks to get rid of this thought and to neutralize this thought in my mind. And what I did was in my church, every time I came in, I posted her picture, her Christmas card, where I couldn't miss it, where I had to see it every time I walked in the door. And then in my mind, I zapped love to her every time I walked in that door. I looked at her picture of her smiling pretty face and I sent her love in my mind. And maybe I did that, you know, five or six times every single day. And I'm telling you, it took me, it took me at least three weeks to, for my mind, to agree with my heart. Oh, for me, not to want to throw that picture in the garbage and to be jealous, it took me all that time. So, you know, and so why did I go through this exercise? You know, because I want to experience myself as a loving being, because I want to be

7:16invited on your program and to think of myself as worthy of being here, you know, because why? Because I neutralize this dreadful hateful thought that comes to all of us, not just me, everybody. And so, I thought it was worth it. And the point is that at first you have to recognize that you're having the thought, you know, which nobody wants to do. It's kind of hard to do that, right? And then you have to do something to neutralize it and you don't have to do what I did. I mean, there's nothing magical about it, but it worked for me. And then to recognize that it's not one and done, you don't just do it one time and you're done with it. You have to keep at it like scrubbing a dirty pot, you know what I mean? Like you have to scrub it. You have to scrub it until you get the whole thing off. So it takes a little bit of work, but it wasn't hard work. It wasn't work that anybody else can't easily do.

8:17And I think it's worth it because it keeps me from entertaining the thought that I'm not worthy of being well. I'm not worthy of having good relationships. I'm not worthy of having the things I want, you know, because why? Because I did that tiny little bit of work. So that's why I so agree with you, you know, there are a lot of situations and circumstances wherein no matter how much of love you have in your heart for that certain someone or XYZ, whatever person, it's just something kicks in your brain and then out of, you know, I don't know for what apparent reason, but you just start keeping that person. And letting again, as you beautifully mentioned, it takes that one conscious decision to change how you feel. The soul's gotten bit is acknowledging that. It is. It's hard. And the other thing that's hard is that, you know, I didn't get any points, you know, what

9:18I mean points, I didn't get any social recognition for undoing the hate in my own mind. You know, nobody was patting me on the back. Nobody said, add a girl. You know, it was just something I did privately and that's kind of hard. You don't get any, nobody was coaching me, nobody was praising me. You know, it was just something I did privately by myself for myself and that makes it hard too. You know, we don't get really easy. You know, when, when you have to do something, I mean, when you know at the other end, there is going to be nobody who's going to praise you for that. So you exactly, you're just doing it for the sake of your own wellness and your own health, the happy mind, so that you can look at yourself in the mirror and say to yourself that I am a nice person without any grudges and without any second thoughts. Exactly. Exactly. So, you know, it takes a little bit of awareness, you know, what I mean?

10:20And you have to have a little bit of awareness and you have to, you have to recognize that that that thought that we all get and that, and that happens to us whether we want it or not. So, you know, it's going to appear and that, you know, but you don't have to keep it, you know, but it takes a little awareness and then a tiny bit of skill, but, you know, it doesn't just disappear on its own. I agree, I agree, I agree. So, you know, there's another very bit of a question that I have to you. What do you think as, you know, those deeper patterns that keep our stock in that, you know, those limited definitions of wellness, even when we genuinely want something much more expensive? Yeah. Well, again, it is very hard to overcome the thoughts that you keep in your mind that you think are real and to have a different thought. It's the hardest thing, you know, you think that the hardest thing is maybe doing something

11:23physical or making money, but the hardest thing is actually changing a thought that you have in your mind. And, you know, what I do to change things that my own thoughts that limit me is that I'll do a meditation or a career with a new, I start reprogramming myself with the new thought, you know, and, you know, it takes a long time to change your mind and to give yourself a new thought, but I keep at it. And, you know, if you just keep at it, finally your mind will change and accept a new thought. But, you know, it's not one and done and it takes a little bit of vigilance. You know, talking about these patterns that we've discussed, how do these certain patterns differ from person to person depending on their context or like the systems that they're navigating through? Well, we all have this thing called it, I call it the ego robots.

12:28So, the ego is the thought of me, me, me, me, me, me. And the robot is the automatic responses that it does for us. And a robot is not creative, right? A robot is a machine. It's just very mechanical. It gets into a pattern and then it just repeats that pattern over and over and over again. But, we are called to live so as to demonstrate we are not a machine. And that's really what the whole show is about here, so that we can override that machine that comes to our mind and it gives us all the thoughts that we don't want to keep and the patterns that are not useful to us. And so, what I teach is three skills for undoing that ego robot and one of them is called stopping. You know, in my country, in the United States, it's all go, go, go, get, get, do, do, do, you know, but really what's more important is not doing and it's, and it's a, or stopping

13:34or overriding. And if you can stop yourself, you've got half of the game in the one because all any of us has is going and stopping, you know, we can go or we can stop. That's all anybody has. And if you know how to stop yourself, you've got 50% of the game already done, but nobody puts any attention on stopping because it's very, very hard to do nothing. But if you, if you can stop yourself, you can prove, you can demonstrate to yourself that you're not a machine, a machine can't stop itself. Just keeps going and going and going. But if you can stop yourself, oh, you're not a machine. In what, what I really am a keen on is the, the shaman, the shaman position about power that shaman's believe, the shaman's of Mexico in particular, believe that the way that you become a powerful being is by stopping every habit, every routine, every ritual.

14:35And the more that you were able to stop, the more powerful you become. And so that that was how they became sorcerers and magicians and rujos was by stopping every, every behavior. And, you know, so not eating at the same time every day and not dressing the same predictable way and not using the same sentences. You know, that that was, that was the technique that they used for becoming powerful. And we can use the same technique when you stop yourself, you're taking your power back from that ego robot that wants to do things for you, right? Wants to do what's just once so you don't have to think about what you're doing. But when, when you stop yourself, you have to actually, oh, you have to make the decision that you want to stop something. And then, then you have to pay attention to what you're doing. It's kind of hard. Yeah. I have another quick story. So in my country, they have speed limits. I don't know. Do they have speed limits and, and, and, as well? Okay.

15:36So I like to speed. It's bad. I'm bad. I'm so bad. And I like to put the radio on really loud. And I like to paint it every single scene. Yeah. I like to sing. And I like to drink coffee and, you know, not really pay too much attention to what I'm doing. And, you know, have you ever driven from one city to another and you arrive there and you don't know how? You were just, you know, you didn't kill anybody. But you get from point A to point B and you don't know how. That's the ego robot taking over for you. You know, it'll just, it'll do things for you so you, you can do two things at once. And so, I got stopped three times for speeding in my, in my little town and, and the cops really sick of me. And, and they said it, if I, if I did it, if they caught me again, they were going to give me a ticket and a really big fine. And maybe I would lose my license and that really got my attention. I was like, oh, bad. I'm so bad. So I had to, one, I had to make the decision that I wasn't going to speed, that I was going

16:38to follow the speed limit. You know, and what was my decision before? Don't get caught. So I had to check. I did change my decision. And my decision was, I'm going to follow the speed limit. And then, two, I had to pay attention to what I was doing. My time will go out in the car. I had to remember, oh, yeah, I'm going to, I'm going to follow the speed limit. And then, I had to pay attention to what the odometer said on my car. And then, I had to actually pay attention to the speed limit signs, which I never look at, you know, but I had to look at them. And then, I had to not pay attention to the cars in back of me who were all crazy because I was going the speed limit. You know, nobody else was. You know, so it caused me to pay so much attention. I had to pay so much attention. And we all think that, you know, transcending the ego or going up and over is a big deal. But all it is, it's just, it's paying attention to what you're doing in that. You know, every time I got in the car, I had to, I had to pay attention.

17:40And it was, it was actually hard work for me because I like to be mindless when I'm driving, you know, so that's, that's what it takes to break those patterns. It's first with the decision, it starts with the decision, everything, nothing's going to happen without your decision. And then you have to pay attention to what you're doing and figure out a different way. You know, I loved how you mentioned above stopping for a certain point of time. And that, I think sort of made me realize that we're always stuck, as you mentioned, we're just stuck like robots doing the same repetitive thing year and months and for the same, you know, endless number of days that probably people do not want to stop because stopping means sitting with your own thoughts, like sitting with your own thoughts and just like kind of navigating through life on your own. And we're all just stuck in that, that way is that you're sitting with your own self

18:44and with your own thoughts, having to interrupt our spectra and retrospect. And it, in itself, feels like a task, which is probably stopping again, as you mentioned, the sort of people now. Yeah, yeah. It's, it's, it's, what's hard is that it's countercultural, maybe not in your country, but in my country, it's very countercultural. So you're not going to get much coaching, you know, or much recognition that this is an important skill. And, you know, you really do have to have a little bit of awareness and willingness on your own. And that, you know, that makes it hard when you're self directed. I think that is exactly where, you know, meditations like yoga or sorry, practices like meditation or you, and you know, all of these just sort of help you because they give you that path to just sit with yourself and being with your own self at that.

19:45And you know, it's really hard to nothing. It's really, really hard, don't you think? It is. I agree. So, Karen, in, in everyday life, what does this reimagined approach to wellness actually look like when, you know, someone is trying to make decisions about their health or their lives? I think the most important thing is to become aware of the concept of homelessness. So, harm is hurting yourself or another, right? And we don't generally recognize ourselves as harmful because we associate harm with assault and guns and, you know, things that are very physical. But harm is going to the dark side to get people to do what you want. And we all do it. You know, there's no judgment here. So what is, what is going to the dark side? Fitching a fit, getting angry, doing a guilt trip, raising your voice, being mean.

20:47You know, we all do it. And, and the thing is that everything, I don't know about you, but everything I feel bad about for myself is my own harshness, you know? Every time that I've been harsh, that's, that's where I'm most regretful or that's where I have to scrub my own guilt away. And, you know, you just can prevent it by becoming aware that harmful thoughts come to us from the ego robot and we can change them and we can get what we want. Here's the really important thing. So we think that we have to use these dark side practices to get what we want, right? And it's possible to get what you want another way. It takes awareness that you can get it another way and it takes a little skill and you have to be patient because it usually takes longer. You can get what you want. It's not being a dormant, you know? It's not letting people walk all over you. It's not just being a people pleaser. And it's not just saying yes to everything, but it's, again, it's maybe not in India,

21:51but in my country, it's very countercultural. You know, because every book, every movie, every professional, every coach will tell you to get even, you know, or to get your justice. And, you know, maybe there is a something that you need to correct, but you can correct it without the hate in your mind. And so, you know, and the reason you want to do that is so that you can be mentally healthy, emotionally healthy. And so you don't make yourself sick, you know? Make yourself sick with your own unworthiness. I absolutely love that framing because it sort of gives permission for wellness to be messy and, you know, contextual rather than something to be able to perform perfectly. I mean, it becomes more, I mean, more human that way. Yeah, exactly, exactly. Yeah, so. So, you know, for someone who's ready to start remagining their own relationship with wellness,

22:55where would you suggest they begin? Like, what kind of approach or practice might support that shift? You know what I would do? I would do one simple thing. I would teach myself stopping because it's such an important skill. And I would take something super easy, like, you know, a super easy habit. And you know, in my country, people say the effort in every sentence. You know, so maybe you want to stop saying the effort for a week. And just teach yourself stopping with something super easy. And then that one basic, simple skill can be transferred to other more important areas of your life, where you want to stop yourself from doing something that's more consequential. You know, but if you just start, so that, you know, you're developing the awareness that stopping is important. You're developing a skill about how to do it. And then you're transferring that skill to other areas of your life.

23:56Just take something super easy and teach it to yourself. And that will serve you in so many ways. And then you also can experience yourself as a powerful being. And that's kind of cool. But just tell me just one thing. What helps people stay with that process when, you know, when it feels very uncertain or when sort of old patterns try to pull them back towards what was familiar. Yeah, well, this is why I frame my experiences as a warrior. Because to me, the concept of being a warrior, of being strong, of having the idea that I can be powerful. So what's powerful? Power is, um, use influencing outcomes so that they make me happy. Or people, power is drawing experiences that I want in my life.

24:57Or power is, you know, getting things to go my way more often than not. So I, I like to, I like to put power as a priority. And I like to frame it with warriorhood because it just keeps me, it reminds me. You know, we all need a reminder because there's so many things to distract us and to take our attention. But if I hold the intention that I'm a warrior, I mean, that keeps me inspired. It keeps me focused. And I just like it. It just makes me happy. So, you know, for me, it works. But if you can find a reason, if you have, if you give yourself a really big why, why am I doing this? The why can keep you going. It's for me, it's, it's warriorhood. But for somebody else, it might be something else. I love that, you know, and I think there's just something so grounding about starting with curiosity rather than judgment. Like, it opens up space for so much discovery instead of forcing change.

26:00You know, before we even understand what is true for us and what's not. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. I 100% agree. But, you know, talking about light practices in general, light's not always a better pros. So, how do people sustain to this process? I mean, you know, things get messy, things get really tetra. And when that happens, how do they sustain this relationship with wellness? I think that one of the most important questions you need to answer for yourself is what do I want? And, you know, if you know what you want, you can begin to organically direct yourself. If you're just responding, so if you don't take the time to know what you want, the ego robot is going to take over for you and you're just going to be doing things in a mindless way, like me driving.

27:00I'm just driving in a mindless way. Until I take over and I say, oh, I want to follow the speed limit. So it always comes with an awareness and a conscious decision of what you want. And because without that, you're on automatic, you're on autopilot, you're in the matrix, whatever you want to call it. So, you know, that will sustain you and it will keep you focused and it will keep you on your own path. I mean, it's so hard to stay directed, but it can be done. It can be done. I really think that repraining a setback as, you know, information rather than failure feels just so essential. And it lets us stay in a sort of a relationship with ourselves even when things do not go as planned, which might be the most important skill of all. It is. I 100% agree. You know, that's where it's at.

28:03And, you know, I think one thing that I definitely take away from this conversation is that reimagining wellness is not about perfecting it. It's more about expanding what we allow for it inside of us. Yeah. What you indulge, you know, what? What thoughts are you going to indulge these, you know, these angry mad thoughts are going to come to us all? Are you going to keep it and indulge it? Or are you going to neutralize it? And, you know, that's really the only two choices. And consciously deciding what to do, you know, what is right for your mental health, physical health and what's fun? Those little steps and, you know, baby steps, I think, eat us along there. Exactly. Yeah, you got it. Thank you. So, Karen, if anybody wants to continue this conversation or get to know more about your work, very exactly, can they find you?

29:05They can find me at my website, which is my name, Karen Bentley.com. Thank you. Thank you so much for being here and, you know, helping us see wellness through such a more wider lens. And to everybody listening, I really hope this conversation gave you the permission to ask questions. What you've been told, well, this should look like and to pass your own knowing about what you actually look, you know, what actually serves you. Just one small question, take one small question with you today. And, I mean, not exactly answer, just take a question, see where it leads and that's it. Well, I'm in the way and this is well as really nothing. Until next time, stay curious. Thank you, Karen. Thank you so much. This has been great. Just one little thing that I want to say before I leave, you look a lot like Taylor Swift to eat. Actually, you don't belong to this. No, I got this. I have been waking the entire house.

30:09Sorry. Good for me, bad for her. Not bad for anybody. Come on. Okay. This has been a beautiful conversation. Thank you.