Sheen Beatified!

0:00The heart of Richard Fulton, Jay Sheen is now blessed Fulton, Jay Sheen following his Beatification Mass in St. Louis, Missouri. Look at the life and legacy of one of the most influential Catholic evangelists in history, the papal posse, father Gerald Murray and Robert Royal, along with special guests, Bishop Theron, Monk Sr. Jason Gray, and many more on a special edition of the world over from St. Louis, it begins right now. Now, Raymond DeRoyo. A warm welcome to all of you joining us in the United States and the world over as we celebrate

1:04our 30th year we're coming to you from St. Louis, the Beatification of Archbishop Fulton, Jay Sheen, just concluded. If you'd like to comment, send me an ex-post on that Raymond, a Royal and at a Royal Grande show on YouTube and we are in St. Louis, of course, the site of this Beatification. The ceremony in Mass just wrapped up a short while ago and I'm delighted to be joined by the papal posse, Robert Royal, father Gerald Murray, and a few special guests coming up, including members of the Sheen family and the postulator of the cause and Bishop Robert Barron. Stay for that. I'm also going to reveal how Sheen returned to television, which is very personal to me, and the reason I had to be here. Gentlemen, I want to start with Sheen's legacy. Why does he matter today, father Jerry? Well, he matters because of holiness. He was a very holy man, but he was holy in his vocation, which was to become a priest and an a bishop, and in addition to that he was a professor, he was an author, he was a radio personality, and a television personality, a retreat master, brought many converts into

2:10the church. In other words, he lived the mission of Christ's Gate to the Apostles to go out, reached to the world, and to baptize all nations. He really was an exemplary apostle mission. And I mean, after 20 years, we should say, teaching philosophy. He then, farms with really nothing but a ziketo, a cape, a chalkboard, and a statue of the blessed mother, went up against Milton Burle on Tuesday nights. A year later, Sheen beats Lucille Ball, Edward Armurrow, Jimmy Duranty for the Emmy, and he'd go toe-to-toe with Sinatra, who by the way he removed from television. So my question is, what was it about that moment of American culture and Sheen himself, Bob, that allowed him to compete with and really outdone some of the biggest names of the day? Well, it's a number of things, Raymond. I mean, he was an academic initially. He went and studied in Europe at Lou Van U University in Belgium. He received the highest award you could get for your dissertation, which was the Mercier

3:12Day Prize, and he was primed to be an academic. He had offers from Columbia University and from Oxford to Teach, but his bishops made him go back to Illinois and spend a year as a priest just to show that he was still humble enough to listen to a bishops. So I think that that, right away, shows us that as great an intellectual he was, he was first of all a churchman. And I think in particular, the reason that he became so prominent among Catholics and non-Catholics after World War II is that people were looking for something solid. America, I've just been through the trauma of World War II. You hadn't yet gone into the cultural spiral that we have today, but he knew that that was coming. And he knew that the Catholic Church was the only institution that was capable of bringing America back from the outbreak. And he had that very, very rare gift. I can tell you this from experience of being an academic who could also speak to people.

4:13And to the members they have. Yeah, well, and when he accepted the Emmy, he thanked his four writers, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. Father, talk about Sheen as a New York priest. This is different from other clergy. And the power of his message that was an urbanity about being in New York that allowed him to reach the upper echelons in society as well as the common man. Yes, he was, even before he came to New York where he worked at the Society for Provocation of the Faith, he would come up on weekends while he was a professor and give conjured instruction. Because his radio show drew a lot of interest. And people wrote to him and said they like to become Catholics. When New York, he developed a very important apostolate. He got to know the priest. He was invited to preach. And then he was called the Cardinal Spellman, received him. That's where he became an auxiliary bishop. What it means to be a priest in New York like in every diocese is that you're dedicated to the people that God puts in your path. And he did that. And as Bob was saying, he brought to them a hope and optimism based on faith and a certainty that life is not just a series of opinions.

5:22That there's someone who said, I am the way the truth and the life. And he introduced people to that person. Yeah, it was the message and the way he imparted it. It was so important. There's a reason that we wanted to be here and that I wanted to be here. And firstly, for our EWT and family who could not be present at this beattification, I thought it would be important for us to represent you all here. But there's a personal side to this beattification to me. I was part of the initial Sheen Guild that opened Fulton Sheen's cause for saying to it. We're going to talk about my friend, Father Andrew Apostoli, who asked me to join that guild. When Bishop Baron joined us last week, he told me he came to Sheen via his seminarians who had seen him on EWTN. And I want to tell you how he returned to TV because I didn't realize how it would happen or how important that moment was. But it's the story of a convert, Maliki Martin, and a secret deal made in a crypt. And it's a very personal story.

6:22I was interviewing Maliki Martin in New York who was a kind of flamboyant novelist. He'd written about exorcisms and Jesuits. And he asked me about my personal life on the way out the door and I told him I was dating this girl who was raised Baptist, was now an Episcopalian. And he said, well, wait a minute. He went into a closet and he brought me this package of Fulton Sheen audio cassettes. And apparently it was the convert classes that Sheen recorded at Catholic University. He said, give this to your girlfriend, let her listen to it. And on your way downtown, I lived in Lower Manhattan. He said on your way downtown, stop at St. Patrick's and make a deal with Fulton Sheen. Now, I barely knew who Fulton Sheen was. But he said, he's in the crypt, down beneath the main altar of St. Patrick's. Go there and make a deal with him. So I did. I went down and I promised him that if he converted this girl that I was dating, I would do everything I could to get him back on television.

7:24Well, he did convert that girl. She became my wife or Becca. And it was Sheen's instruction that really moved her. And then later I came to EWT and I was working at EWT and at the time. 30 years ago, it took me until about the year 2000 to produce a documentary on Fulton Sheen, which we aired. And in it were clips of his life's worth living series, which we were given permission to use, but they were kind of hard to come by. So I felt with that airing, I was making good on my deal to Archbishop Sheen. And I didn't realize in some ways we were all helping to shift history. Watch this. This is the first time Bishop Sheen's programs have appeared on broadcast television since their first showing nearly 40 years ago. Now, Bishop Lard said, Loved by neighbor. Loved by neighbors by self. Well, you might say, how can I like my neighbor?

8:26First of all, the neighbor isn't the one from whom you borrow sugar. The neighbor isn't the one who tells you that you're making too much noise at your party. He isn't the one that knows your affairs before you do. The definition of a neighbor is one who is in need or else your enemy. Do good to them who hate you. And as we begin to do what we ought, and what is commanded, we may eventually begin to love that which we ought. And that is how we gradually come to love God, and to love the neighbor sometimes that is not worth your attention. That was the first time Sheen would be seen on broadcast television in 40 years.

9:27The owners of the Sheen shows were so elated by the response that they asked us if EWTN wanted to air the show weekly. By producer John Elson and Doug Keck and mother herself, love that idea. And for years, Fulton Sheen's show premiered right after the world over every Friday. It is how millions first encounter Bishop Sheen's brilliance, his prophetic voice, and of course that cape. And it's also how Bishop Aaron's seminarians and countless others would come to know him. The economy of God, and I thought about this the other day, if it weren't for Malachi Martin's and my wife Rebecca and mother Angelica's willingness to put Fulton Sheen back on the air, none of this may have happened and I dare say this cause would have been greatly delayed. It really is a sign of how divine Providence worse unexpected people unexpected at you probably never thought you'd be kneeling down. No, they patrished asking Bishop to get you a wife. Right. And he did and a good word, but that's how God works.

10:28And that's one reason I mother Angelica Fulton Sheen, they were the progenitors of what we're trying to do here in EWTN and elsewhere on the internet because so many people are doing the same thing, which is talk about God and help people understand he's interested in them. Well, look, what he proved to me is what this story proves. Life is worth living. You know, go out and really live it. And, you know, and of course, mother's great witness and Fulton Sheen's was that love of the blessed sacrament. It's really was the center of both of their lives in many ways. Yeah, well, Raymond, as we know, Fulton Sheen was a very, very busy man. Not only was he on radio, a television, he was at one point ahead of the society for the propagation of faith in New York City. And yet he vowed early on in his life to do an hour of adoration, no matter where he was in the world. I mean, I can say from personal experience, it's hard for me to do 10 minutes of adoration. Yeah, it's hard.

11:28And he was able to do it. And he, of course, he said that that was the foundation of everything else that he didn't. Very quickly, one of his books was three to get married. Right. I always thought that was God, husband and wife. It turns out in your case, it was him. It's Fulton Sheen, Rebecca and Raymond. That's how it worked out. Look, and I'm going to tell you a little later how mother and Jeleka and Sheen are connected through an interesting link. And look, last anybody think Fulton Sheen had an easy path. You know, the media path, success often draws jealousy. And in his case, from other clerics, there was a infamous powdered milk controversy with Cardinal France, a Spellman of New York, where Spellman wanted government milk that had been donated to the diocese. To basically be bought by Sheen, who was then running the propagation of faith, Sheen refused and took it to the Pope. The Pope sided with Sheen as a result, as they were leaving that meeting with Pius XII. Cardinal Spellman turns to Sheen and says, everybody's going to know who you are and what you are.

12:30I will destroy you, or words to that effect. He effectively banned him from pulpits in New York. He was banished to the hinterlands. He was off of television. That was really the beginning of the passion of Fulton Sheen. Talk to me briefly about that and how it's reshaped the man and his mission. No, and that's always in the church. Bishop's unfortunately aren't perfect, and they get into fights with priests and other bishops and all. And Sheen was exemplary. He said, well, if I can't do something, I'll do something else. He became a diocesan bishop, gave his best effort. Admittedly, when you've named a diocesan, Bishop ate 71. It's hard to make the adjustment. But then when he retired at age 74, he then based another 10 years of preaching and bringing the message to people. So tragedy is part of life. And he understood that we don't look at the fact that someone doesn't like me, meaning my life should stop. We say, okay, I'm going to pray for you. Maybe something else. And he did. He kind of reoriented his life. He turned to the people focused on priests, focused on the diocesan.

13:31And he was exiled to Rochester. I mean, it wasn't a, it wasn't to, you know, Barbados or somewhere, you know, Rochester's a nice place. And he tries to implement the council there, even to offer a parish to the federal government, to house the poor. And there's a rebellion. I mean, Sheen really suffers there. He was an avowed anti-communist, Bob. I want you to talk about this. He used his programs and his pulpit to decry the evils of communism because he considered it a counter religion. Watch this. On the third day. And whenever a civilization begins to die morally or spiritually, then they're begin to appear vultures. And that is the mission of communism in the world. Communism is the scavenger of decaying civilizations.

14:36It makes its way into a country and into a culture only when that culture begins to rot from the inside. The measure of the incipient death in any civilization. Is the progress that communism makes? Wow. Well, welcome to today. That could have been given this afternoon. Why was he so virulently anti-communist? What was he warning of so? Well, because of his deep philosophical understanding of things, he understood, as I think no one else was at least able to explain publicly the way he was, that communism is an atheist religion in which human beings don't simply become just and loving toward one another. They start to set up their own tyrannies. And he pointed to fascism, to communism. And he worried about what was happening in the United States as well. The once you lose God.

15:37And by the way, the communist party was beginning to grow even in the United States back in those days. And one of the most amazing conversions that he was involved with was that Louis Boudin, who was the head of the communist newspaper in New York City back in the 1930s, came to try to convert she in. Because she had made some criticisms of capitalism. He said that capitalism has accidental evils. But communism has essential evils. It is essentially a godless tyrannical system. Well, Boudin's came to him and tried to to to return him. And at one point, she said, look, I don't want to talk about communist very any longer. I want to talk about your soul. Boudin's went home, thought about that, became a Catholic, his whole family became Catholics. And he later said when he was asked, why did you become a Catholic? He said, because that priest asked me about my soul. Wow. I want to father, before I get you to comment on this whole question of sheen's ministry,

16:39which was so warning about communism, this is father Andrew Apostolais, on another aspect of the communist influence and sheen's concern for the priesthood. There was one part of the message, which may be a little bit startling to many of our viewers. But in his converts, among his converts, he converted a woman who was a communist. Her name was Bella Dodd. Bella Dodd was a communist from 1930 to 1950. And this is not very well known and so on. But when she entered the communist party, Joseph Stalin was the head of the party in there in Russia. And he said, the greatest enemy communism has is the Roman Catholic Church. And the way to destroy it is to recruit men into the priesthood who have no faith. And they will cause havoc in the priesthood. Bella Dodd told Bishop Sheen that she personally was involved with recruiting between 800 and 1200

17:44men into the priesthood who had no faith. And that's why I think his concern for the priesthood. He himself admits in some of his tapes that he converted men who were communist, who had entered the priesthood to destroy the church and he converted them. Father, your reaction. Oh, my reaction is that this precisely communist tries, communism tries to subvert everything. And the Catholic Church is their only serious enemy. Now, the United States and the free countries of the West certainly based on their Christian heritage, Fort Communism. But Sheen did it on the basis of philosophy and his appreciation of how man's is situated in the world. Communism denies individuality, denies personal moral responsibility. And it defines you simply as a creature of the state. And he said, no, we're created by God to be his children. And we're created with the moral ability to judge between right and wrong. You know, if you go to a communist country, you'd listen to the leaders talking for hours on and telling you what to do.

18:44And in the end, it was pick up gods and kill people all around us. That's what communists do. That's what communists have always done. And this fascination in our own society, I said, well, we became communist rather more equitable society. Tell that to the Cuban people. Tell that to the North Korean people. Tell that to the people in red China who don't want to be under an oppressive government. That's what communists do. And Sheen was, she not only was militantly anti-communist, he drew the iron, even of the United States government, they investigated his life because they wonder, who is this guy? Turns out they found nothing. He said he has very little social life. He placed tennis and dresses like a dandy. That was the worst they could come up with with a full machine. We're going to take a break and we will be right back with other members of the initial Sheen Guild and a priest of Father Andrew Apostles' order. Joining me now to talk about the early years of the Sheen cause and the role of our beloved Father Andrew Apostles, as many of you familiar with EWTN, will remember Father Andrew.

19:50And I'm joined by the advisory board member of the Sheen Foundation, Jerry Kerns. And a member of Father Andrews ordered the friars, Franciscan friars of the renewal, Father John Anthony Bowton. Thank you both for being here. Jerry is a member of the Sheen Advisory Board. Talk to me a little about how this cause was in jeopardy. I remember this like it was yesterday when I was a member of that board. And Cardinal Egan said he didn't want Sheen. Let's be honest. That's right. He didn't want Sheen in New York. Which is why we'll always be so grateful to Bishop Janky for taking this. Yeah, there were a few times we didn't think this was going to happen. So that makes this day even more special. Oh yeah. And Father Andrew just stuck with it and he was the face of this cause for years. You got it, bless him. I want to remind people for those of you who don't know Father Andrew. I want to show this to you. This is the late Father Andrew Apostle, the postulator, vice postulator of Sheen's cause for St. Father Andrew was ordained by Archbishop Sheen, which we're going to talk about in a moment.

20:52And I interviewed him back in 2008 on this show and asked him about Sheen's legacy. And why he felt this cause was so necessary. Listen. You know, I just felt Raymond such a strong feeling that we could not allow his voice to go silent in the Catholic Church. There are many people today, good priests and religious and so on who lay people who quote Bishop Sheen extensively. He had such insights. Right. And I said, we can't lose that treasure. But at the same time, the thing that really hit me most was the fact that his impact on me is a priest. I said, you know, he has a message for priests and he had said something at my ordination that kept haunting me later on. He said, if there's any key to the reform of the Catholic Church and the salvation of the world at this time, it lies in the renewal of the priesthood.

21:54That's why he said to me in the day he ordained me, he said, I want you to become with me the beginning of a sanctified priesthood. He wanted to put the teachings of Vatican to the true teachings of the council into effect. And he said, we really, the church is calling us to a sanctification in the priesthood. And that more than any other factor kept coming back to me. It haunted me for a couple of years. That's why I even tried my hand to try and doing some priests retreats. I had not done that. That's how I got connected to work with Father Benedict. Really? Yeah. So I think Bishop Sheen had a lot to do with that. Of course, as I said, it was a great convert maker. So great seeing him hearing him, Father John. Your thoughts as you watch that, that ordination had a profound effect on Father Andrew possibly any event where we experienced it. Absolutely. As Jerry said, he was the face of the cause. He pushed it. He was the guy that we actually had all the files and drove them in a car to Peoria, hoping we didn't

22:59get into a wreck. But I have right here the homily that Father Andrew's ordination, wonderful picture there. And he talked about exactly that. The renewal of the priesthood will come, the renewal of the church will come through renewal of the priesthood, but particularly through Eucharistic devotion. And that impacted Father Andrew personally, but also our community. Yeah, it became the focus of the CFRs really from then on. Exactly. And then there's also there was so many prophetic words in the homily itself. So that that became a mainstay of Father's life. He wound up giving many priesthood treats with Father Benedict. That grace continues and cares and continues in our community today. And he also said something at dinner to Father Andrew after the ordination saying, you know, you guys in the seminary, you get a lot on Christology, a lot on the Father, a lot on the Trinity, but you never hear anything about the Holy Spirit. And Father Andrew didn't remember that until he got to Trinity and was starting with Father

24:01Benedict and goes, oh, I got to do some numerology. And so all those books on the Holy Spirit direct intervention by Fulton Sheen. Wow. So priestly formation really became the centerpiece of Sheen's ministry, particularly after the television career. So and I love how he passed that on. And it really went to his spiritual son, Father Andrew. What is the lasting impact on your community of the Sheen cause and that charrison? Well, Father Andrew obviously was formed by Sheen. He was one of his sons. So we feel kind of like his grandsons as it were. And the Eucharistic devotion came both both through Sheen and Mother Teresa. We have it in our constitutions. We have daily holy hour. There's no wiggle room. You have to do it. Right. And then this charrison of priestly renewal, I keep seeing that being raised up amongst brothers. We're doing the Institute for Priestly Formation. We're doing spiritual director and for priestly all over the country doing priest retreats.

25:03And it's because of that. Final word to you, Jerry, as a New Yorker. I mean, this call is shit. We should be in Yankee Stadium right now. I mean, it broke my heart when Cardinal Egan said, we got Dorothy Day downstairs. We got here to Saint. We don't need full and sheen. He did say that. You remember that. And then there was the battle over the body and all of that was so heartbreaking. But nonetheless, he's in Peoria now. He's now raised to the Older's. Your thoughts? I do believe he was a Yankee fan, by the way. The joy of this room, the joy of this event was the joy that Father Andrew always had me for the Sheen, which was very often. Yes. Yeah. Well, I'm I'm heartened by this. And I love that they still have full machines. Prey do down in the crib at St. Patrick's. I visited it last week. So there's a little piece of the skill there. That's right. Jerry Kerns, Father John. Thank you both for being here. Thank you. And God bless our friend Father Andrew. Yes. Thank you. He brought it home. He brought it home. Thank you, Raymond. Thank you.

26:04Joining me now for their insights into the personal side of blessed Fulton Sheen. I'm joined by Alexis Walker. Sheen. She is the author of Fulton J Sheen. And the cousin of the now blessed Rosemary, Hollinger Castello. Thank you both for being here. Alexis, I'm going to start with you. You were running crisis communications in the diocese of Palm Beach in the middle of one of the biggest scandals in that diocese. This history, I won't get into it. Fulton Sheen walks into your life through a book, three to get married. My question is, how did you find yourself in the crib beneath St. Patrick's? And how did that change your life? It changed my life. It was a very organic girl's trip to New York. I had been making Bishop Sheen a spiritual friend not knowing he was on track for St. Hood. And it was bringing to him to help me in my crisis communications role so that I would represent the church well, represent the Bishop well. And so I had one bishop here and one in heaven.

27:04And we took a trip to New York that changed my life. I knelt behind the main altar and found the neiler that I was kneeling on prayer for the canonization of servant of God Fulton J Sheen. And I realized he's on track for St. Hood. He's answering my prayers and then I had to get inside the crypt. Wow. Wow. And that began really a lifelong devotion to him. It was a lifelong devotion. I prayed five impossible intentions. I hadn't planned them. And at the end of my prayer, I said, if you help me with Jesus, I'll promote you. I came out of the crypt and my senior Stanley Debtula sent me an email I never met him before. I heard about you. My name is Father Stanley Debtula. I am the executive director of the cause for the canonization of Fulton Sheen. Would you help us promote him in South Florida? So I felt very strongly that my prayers were getting answered, but he was going to put me to work for it. Yeah, he makes you work. He does make you work for it. Rosemary, you were more than really a cousin to Fulton Sheen. You say you owe your life to him. What does that mean? He

28:05administered all the sacraments for you too. Yes. And most of them for my siblings as well. Well, I Bishop Sheen is responsible for me being here. And wonderfully so he introduced my parents. My father is the cousin, my grandmother, and then my dad. My dad was living with the Bishop for a time. And my mother became friends with the Bishop and then the Bishop decided they were meant to be together and he introduced them. And my father proposed to my mother on his pre-do and his chapel. And the Bishop married them four months later at St. Patrick's Cathedral. And then my parents had six children and the Bishop was a frequent visitor in our home and gave us all of our sacraments and said, Mass came to our school to talk to our class. Everything. He was like a wonderful grandmother. Father Jerry, I told the story earlier of how I prayed for the conversion of my wife. And I made a deal with Fulton Sheen that if he converted her, I would get

29:09him back on television. That's how he got back on EWTN. And father Jerry Murray said, Jerry said, his book three to get married. Maybe the husband and the wife at Fulton Sheen. So maybe he should be, maybe we should push him as like the patron of married couples or founding, finding a spouse. I mean, I'm on other things, but he was a wonderful matchmaker. He loved doing it. And so yeah, another blessing. Tell me the story. There was a leper, a man with lepercy that Fulton Sheen came to take care of. Tell me about that story and how he became a member of your family. Well, that's why I know the story very well. Victor Anderson was a teenager when he was abandoned because he was terribly disfigured from lepercy. Somebody called the Bishop about him because the Bishop had a wonderful kind heart. And so the Bishop took him in. He took care of him. He he's Victor had several surgeries. The Bishop paid for all of his surgeries.

30:11He ended up bringing him having dinner with him, you know, bringing him to his residence. Right. Got him an apartment, right? The Ottoman apartment. He literally took care of him for his whole life. My parents ended up knowing him because of the Bishop's closeness to him. And so when the Bishop died, you know, very similar to what was Vespers last night where it's that you're in a, it was at St. Patrick's Cathedral, but they couldn't accommodate everyone. So we had wristbands. We were family, but there was a limited number of people we were walking in. And my father saw Victor standing in the crowds because he couldn't get in and he went over and grabbed him, pulled him to come with us. He sat with us for Bishop Sheen's funeral. And ever since then until until Victor died, my parents kind of took over for Bishop Sheen. They would go in the city, pick him up, bring him home to have Sunday dinner with our family. And we all, you know, we all just welcomed him and loved him because we knew the Bishop loved him. But Victor took a special liking to my, not

31:14a special liking, but he a special appreciation of my sister Maureen, who was probably maybe about six or seven at the time because she, he, he, now he was terribly disfigured from leprosy. You have to understand for a child would be understandable to not want to go too close to him. Would, but my sister would bring him books and would sit next to him on the couch and she would, he would read books to her and he appreciated it so much. He, he sat at our dinner table. We all cared about him. But when he died, he left everything in his will, which wasn't much. But he left everything in his will to my sister Maureen and she was in high school at the, at the time. Wow. Well, what does it tell you, Alexis, about this side of Fulton Sheen? We hear we see the great preacher. We see the retreat master. We see the great author. This is the side you don't get to see. There's so much more to Bishop Sheen and blessed Bishop Sheen than the, what seems to be the glamour of TV radio and evangelization. And that was really my mission. I didn't know that either.

32:16I knew him as an Emmy award-winning Bishop. I thought he could help me in my transition with my career, working more directly in the church. And when I became immersed in his writings and, went really deep and then became very close with Rosemary and her whole family. Because Bishop Sheen was arranging those pieces. I learned so much more about him. Joan Sheen cunning him who's not with us. God bless her. God bless her. But she ministered to me in ways that she has no idea regarding the very many things like this that he would do for people. And some of those things that she was detailing were prayers that I had in the crypt for others that were very impossible. And of those five intentions for have been answered. And so he is a miracle worker. He is very active. People should, you don't need to feel like if you're not in the media, you're not an evangelist. He's not for you. He is for the whole church. And seeing this today was a point of renewal. Rosemary, I know Joan Cunningham was heroic in her zeal for the cause in her 90s when there was that tug of

33:20war between New York and Peoria over the body, which, Cardinal Egan, I was around for the meeting. Cardinal Egan promised to release the body. Should the beatification happen? The beatification happened. They wouldn't release the body. What was your perspective as a family member watching that drama play out? Well, it was heartbreaking. And I think it was extremely heartbreaking for Joan. Yeah. Because she also went to great personal expense to go to. Late at night. Yes. And she was devoted to the cause because she knew the bishop was the same, same thing with my mother. And all the other wonderful people who works hard. But Joan, you know, we wouldn't be here without Joan. I agree. Cunningham. Absolutely. No. So I want to remember Joan, her heroic struggle. She prevailed. And to be here, what was it like today? I'll ask both of you before I go. I mean, to have lived, to have known him, had him give you the sacraments, be a part of your life,

34:21watch the whole struggle over the cause. And now, to see him race to the altars of the church. I mean, I knew it was going to be emotional. I didn't know how much, but it was very emotional. And just you're feeling all the just thinking about my parents, my grandparents, you know, my grandmother growing up with him, everyone in our family adoring him, thinking about Joan not being here, thinking about Sister Marlene Brown, thinking about Monsignor Sosman, all the wonderful people that worked so hard. Father Andrew Apostoli, I could go on and on. And so it was an emotional day, but so grateful that it finally happened. And he is our blessed. Alexis, I'll give you the last word. This is a point of renewal, a moment of hope for the church. It proves the spiritual battle for Sanctity. And we should all persevere. I agree. God bless blessed Fulton Sheen May. Pray for us all. Thank you both for being here. What a joy. What a day to share with you all. Yes.

35:27As the papal posse rejoins me, I want to welcome a man who shepherded this cause through countless obstacles, the executive director of the Archbishop Fulton Jechean Foundation, Monsignor Jason Gray, Monsignor, delighted to have you here. I'm sure this is a monumental day for you. It's a great day for celebration. It's the conclusion of 24 years of work on this cause. My pleasure to be with you. Well, look, and we've we've covered this. We've been a part of this together. Two decades you've gone through Sheen's papers, his sermons, moving the tomb, the investigation, the confirmation of the miracle. What did it feel like to hear? Finally here. Blessed Fulton Sheen from that old day. It was a day great excitement and not only just personally, but to see so many people gathered together with such enthusiasm, when they, I would see them cheering on, I brought, when we bring out little relics like Campbell, the Zuceto, people just go crazy over that and to see them applaud at the revelation of the sign that said for the first time on the tomb, blessed Fulton Jechean. J.M.J. A lot of moment. Tell me, I've been getting a lot of emails online about this.

36:31I'm sure you had something to do with the selection of the relics, the major relics. Why the jawbone of Fulton Sheen? Well, I was present when the when the extraction relics was taken and it was Bishop Tilker that gave the direction he presided over their processes. Because the body had, the soft tissue had deteriorated, essentially with just bones and the mandible is loose. It's not connected by anything but soft tissue. So because it was available and you did not have to do anything to harm the remains, we just was lifted out. We thought this is a, the jawbone was it is how Sheen spoke to the people. See how he spoke and proclaimed the gospel. We thought there was a fitting primary relic. Well, now what's next? I know there are, for my time on the gild, there are several outstanding alleged miracles. Where are they in the lineup? And because you need another miracle for Sheen's canonization. So it's, I said we have to get through the beatification. I'm a little occupied. A little bit. And we might have a few masses of Thanksgiving to get through. But then very quickly we're going to move on to the investigation of miracles. Because the beatification

37:35itself was decreed by Pope Francis in 2019, we can go to any miracle that was presented since 2019, potentially for canonization. And we have several, several that have been reported. They'll have to be investigated. We'll have to ask for medical opinion. And of course we always defer to the Holy See and to the judgment of the Holy Father. But I'm hopeful that we might even have the miracle identified already that might lead to his canonization. So perhaps in a few years. Well, I'm going to ask his intercession and that of Mother Angelica and Father Andrew Apostle who is such a part of this cause. And remembering my senior Sosman, who's also passed and who did such heroic work in investigating Shinklake. And Bishop Janky who wasn't here today, but is fondly remembered. What is Sheen represented the church very quickly to you, month senior? Those who don't know Sheen. He's a powerful force for evangelization. He is modern media to communicate the gospel. He also supported the missions to support the church and the forest part of the world. That was what was really dear to his heart. Just a model of a communicator, someone who could grasp deep theological concepts and express them with utter clarity. I love it. I'm on senior. Thank you. Thank you for being here. Thank you for championing this

38:40important course. Appreciate it. And now I'd like to welcome to close out our coverage. Bishop Robert Barron who joins the posse. And I will remind you, you were with the posse when it was founded in the very early days during the election of Pope Francis. Well, that's true. Yeah. It was over there in 2013 as well as 2025. Yeah. Okay. What do you make of this day? I know Sheen holds a special place for you. We talked about this recently. You're looking at a pretty emotionally repressed Irishman here, but when they brought up the relic of a fault of Sheen and it was being carried, wasn't that by the young man who's prayers, right? I started tearing up and I don't do that very often. And to be in this place, I'll tell you what, to see the young people, that the armies of young people, seminarians, the young priests, the young lady that were attracted by Fulton Sheen, you see him up here. Here's his old man who died in 1979, but because of the clarity of his teaching, because of his orthodoxy, because of his vibrant sense of the Catholic tradition,

39:44he spoke, look at him. He spoke to this young generation. I found that very moving today. Me too. Father Jerry, you had a question. He, uh, Archivist of Sheen now blessed Sheen, 73 books. One year's Professor Catholic you. How does that fit into your evaluation of his work? Oh, big time. You know, I always said to people, he was so successful in part because he was so well formed in the Catholic intellectual tradition. We're each and many people today to be answered with you. I think without the shingle, you know, I'm a Catholic theologian, I'm a Catholic spokesperson. Sheen had the Agraje doctorate from Bouvain, he had 20 years of teaching at Catholic you. He had dealt with the apologetics, philosophy, theology at the highest levels, and then informed his popular teaching and gave it the heath and the power that it had, which is why I always say to people when they ask me, what should I do to get involved in, you know, apologetics? I say read and read and read and read. Get his grounded in the tradition is full of Sheen was. Yeah. Professor, let me ask you, I'm going to embarrass you and say you've got you're the closest thing we have

40:46to a living full of Sheen. We've got to help with that. But I noticed that in his autobiography, he talks about an evolution in his own way of approaching people. The beginning, he was more intellectual academic, although of course he spoke to the people even then. And toward the end of his life, he was talking about how you have to speak more to the confusion and the emptiness in people. You're now in that position of having to speak to a larger world. What do you find to be the most important thing to be doing, or the most important things to be doing at this moment in the history of the church in America? Well, I do think responding to the questions that arise from this awful culture of self-invention that we have. We've got a whole couple generations now raised on the idea that I invent myself, I invent values, it's all up to me. All I have to do is tolerate you. That is deadly to the soul. And I think we have to address that problem. And we do it. You see it here. You do it by showing the great epistemic aesthetic and moral

41:47values of the Catholic tradition and say, look, look how beautiful, look how compelling, look how life-giving these are. And people respond to that. They get over this ridiculous self-obsession. You know, Augustine's being caved in on yourself as a definition of sin. That's our problem today. Deja, before I let you go, you touched on something last week when we were talking off camera. In 2019, Blessed Shane promised, resolved every day to spend an hour before the Blessed Sacrament. A holy hour in 1919. My question is, how has that affected your own priesthood and share with people how you came to that devotion, which has an interesting EWT and connection? It does indeed, because if you were said to seminaries of my generation, did you do your holy hour today? We wouldn't know, seriously, what they were talking about. We were actually kind of discouraged from Blessed Sacrament iteration because it was the static Christ, not the dynamic Christ of the

42:48Mass. It was putting the Lord off into a corner. Well, my generation didn't really take in sheen but the next generation, the ones that I started teaching, because of EWTN, they started seeing these shows and they responded to the scene. I really learned about the discipline of a holy hour from my students at Mungal. Wow. They started doing it and I was curious about it. And then I found great spiritual value in that. And now it's essential of my spiritual. Okay, final thoughts on the day and the witness and legacy of Blessed Fulton Sheen going forward. Again, we'll trouble. beige Catholicism could never pull off today. I think it took two years ago. I was in Indianapolis. Remember the Eucharistic gathering? Yeah, I wrote a little piece about that saying, liberal Catholicism could never pull this off. What I mean there is a Catholicism that's too apologetic, is culturally accommodating, just an echo of the surrounding culture. What are they responding to here? A vigorous supernaturalism. That machine was advocating. A belief in God

43:54and in the saints and the sacraments and in grace and redemption and the cross and eternal life, when the faith gets reduced to a vague echo of liberal politics, it compels nobody. And it could never pull this off today. That's what I was thinking. No, Father Jerry, your final thoughts on the day. Yes, I mean that, Holden Sheen is someone who challenged the American people in particularly the Catholic world to think about the soul, eternal life, but how you live in a society and his critique, friends and fascism and communism, it wasn't political, it was philosophical. Right. And it basically, again, to the point, do we create ourselves or are we create? Right. When we discover or created that what does a creator want me to do? And that's the beginning of the journey of holiness and happiness. Bob, your thought on this, on the legacy of Sheen, what he, what will linger on? Well, you know, we know he's a great ecologist, we know he's a great orator, we know he was a great critic of communism and atheism in general. But I think we overlook sometimes that he wanted to reform America too. And he says in

44:57a number of places, the only thing that is going to save America is for it to go back to those parts of the founding that are congruent with Catholicism, the human person, respect for the common good. I mean, all those things that the church has to offer and that we hear too infrequently actually in public these days. So I think he still has a great deal to tell us even now in much more difficult circumstances than the ones that he lives. Well, and my prayer is that he will, that whoever's listening out there who wants to be an influencer, wants to make a difference, who wants to evangelize, that they will heed what Bishop Aaron mentioned earlier. The formation is the beginning. And then I hope they pick up the dramatic flair, the theatricality of Fulton Sheen, which is needed to cut through at times. He had both. Finally, I want to make a connection here between Archbishop Sheen and my beloved mother Angelica. Beyond the rebroadcast, in the late 1950s and early 60s, Bishop Sheen sent his book royalties to this man, Bishop Thomas

45:59Toulin. Toulin was the Bishop of Mobile Birmingham, who was building a hospital for black mothers in his diocese. That is the same Bishop Toulin who would welcome that nun you're seeing there on the left side of your screen, Sister Angelica, to establish a contemplative community in his diocese in the early 1960s. And we know the rest of this story. So Bishop Toulin, a nice connective issue between the great Fulton Sheen and the great mother Angelica, two of the great evangelists of our time. Certainly. Final word to you, Bishop Toulin. Well, thank you for being here to cover this night. This is going to uplift the whole church. I think it feels great evangelical power. I was kidding some of my brother Bishop since the longest recessional in my this liturgy is going to be evangelical power. We believe it's there on behalf of Robert Royal, Father Gerald Murray Bishop Toulin. We hope you'll join us next time until then we'll be scouting the world over the world that is seen and unseen of the staff and prove it WTN so long for now.

47:02We'll see you next time.