Sheryl Crow

0:00This message comes from Capella University. That spark you feel? That's your drive for more. Capella University's Flex Path Learning Format lets you earn your degree at your pace. Without putting life on pause, learn more at capella.edu. This is Fresh Air. I'm Terry Gross. Cheryl Crowe was recently inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Now she has a new album. She talked about that and a whole lot more with our guest interviewer, Sam Fragoso. He hosts the interview podcast, Talk Easy. Here's Sam. Since her 1993 platinum debut, Tuesday night music club, Cheryl Crowe has won nine Grammy awards with even more top charting songs. You may know some of them. All I want to do is have some fun. I gotta feel them. I'm not the only one. All I want to do is have some fun. And if the sun comes up, I'll be sent a Monica for the fun.

1:07If it makes you happy, it can't be that bad. If it makes you happy, then why the hell are you so sad? Every day is a winding road. I can love it, go sad. Every day is a thing. Her latest album is called Pick You Up. It features seven new songs, which she describes as quote, commentaries on being human and wanting connection. They are written by Crowe and longtime collaborator Jeff Trott, who she first worked with in the mid-90s back in Los Angeles. These days Crowe lives and works out of Nashville, Tennessee, and was recently inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. But amid selling over 50 million records worldwide, headlighting tours around the globe,

2:09the singer-songwriter from Missouri has also battled sexism, depression, and cancer. Quote, I've always had really high highs in real low lows, end quote, which across various genres and decades she's channeled through the music. Cheryl Crowe, welcome back to Fresh Air. Thank you. You have said in the past that quote, if I'm honest with myself, what art is a picture of who you are at any given moment? And so with your new record, pick you up. What does that picture look like? Well, yes, I think that whatever you are experiencing, it definitely informs your art. And it's been interesting to age out of pop music, but there's great liberation in being able to just write whatever I want and not be thinking, okay, is this gonna be a play to radio? Is it gonna be as big as my last hit?

3:10Blah, blah, blah. For me, this record is me at my age. As a mom, asking the same questions that I think a lot of us are asking about who we are at this moment in our humanity, what do we stand for? That being said, it sounds like a very morose record, a very depressing record, and it's really not. It's very hopeful. But there's a lot of questions on it, you know, about kind of where we're at right now, and what kind of world we're leaving our kids. You know, I think many people feel these are increasingly isolated times. Yeah. And I'm thinking the first song on your record is a track called Freight Train that speaks to some of what we're talking about. Let's take a listen.

4:16I'm in a lot of night. Oh, it's so close. I hear it though it's nowhere inside. It's always after midnight, a lonely voice is heard. That go through the backyards, disappear in without a word. I hear a sing from miles around while the crook is stream and the oath of sleep in miles around. That was a song Freight Train on Shale Crows latest record. Pick you up. Now, it sounds like you have built a pretty tight-knit life back in Nashville. You have horses, children, your band.

5:16I think records at a studio above the barn that you have. Yeah. And yet, I got to say that song is a deeply lonely track. Where are you in that? Well, a couple of things. I think by nature, I have a certain amount of melancholy, a certain amount of, I don't know, loneliness built in. I think most artists do. Otherwise, why would they be doing it? Is that the question? I think so. I've been really open about my mental struggles. And thank God we're all talking about it now. And it's not swept under the rug. But yeah, it took me a really long time to sort of navigate how to not sink further into darkness when it hits. And how to know that it's not a forever thing. And to be able to sometimes be quiet or sometimes to write songs to it. And for me, music has been sort of a live saver.

6:20But it was also the thing that I made my identity. So that was also part of the issue of my feeling like, I love music, but I hate music. You know, like the pressure of it. So I've learned how to navigate it, like how to not use it as an escape, but also to be able to use it as a sav and a system of relief. And that's really what this song is. Like, we're all kind of going through this weird thing where we're connected on social media. We're connected through watching reels. And then when we put the phone down, it's like, I should put my phone back up. Otherwise, what do I do? And that's really what the song is about. You know, it's about, and I remember this feeling, I grew up in a town where we heard the train go by all the time. And it went through twice a day, always at night, and that feeling of a train whistle that always, for me, was emblematic of, you know, middle of the night, darkness,

7:22aloneness. And so that became sort of the metaphor for the song. Hmm. One of the first jobs you landed was as a background singer from Michael Jackson on his bad tour. And Jackson, as many people know, was notoriously meticulous. And so I wanted to play a bit from a rehearsal that you were part of, where he's teaching you and everyone else how to harmonize on the song, Billie Jean. This is in 1987. She just again. One more wave. But the kid isn't at my son. She says I am the one. You're so great. You're so great. Can you still hit the high note? She says I am the one. You know, it's crazy. I mean, when I reflect on my life, which I think when you get older, you do do a lot of that,

8:22and you think, wow. Now that I'm able to look back on it, it is a profound thing to think about a kid who was from a town that was like the closest city was Memphis. We had three or four stoplights. I mean, it was just a tiny place in the middle of a bunch of cotton fields. And then to dream about going on and working for Michael Jackson and people like Don Henley and singing with Rolling Stones, I mean, I couldn't even dreamt that up. But if you put so much of your energy into something, and if you have a modicum of ambition, which I will say, I was very ambitious. You know, I never, if there was an opportunity, I created it. And the Michael Jackson tour wasn't, you know, I wasn't supposed to go. And I heard some singers talking about the audition and being recommended by Quincy or Bruce Whitting or Ted Templeton. And I thought, well, this is when you're working as a waitress at a restaurant. Well, I was working as a waitress, but I was also doing a little bit of session work.

9:24I was finally getting some work as a session singer. I was on a session with Darryl Phantasy, who actually ultimately wound up being one of the backup singers. And he was one that told me about it. And I crashed the audition. I said, hi, Michael, into a video. I said, I just moved here like six months ago. I was a school teacher. And then I sang a song by Denise Williams called Free. And I got called back. And we went from there. You're like, what, 26 at the time? 26? You've been a Los Angeles for six months? I've been there about six or eight months. And didn't have a passport. And the next thing I know, we're rehearsing in a month later. We're in Tokyo playing for 65,000 people. When you're watching him backstage waiting to go on in Tokyo, 60,000 people in the crowd. What did you take away from that? You have to remember every single thing about this was new.

10:25I think I'd only been on one or two airplanes in my whole life. So every single thing about this was new. Obviously going to Tokyo, then going all over Japan, all over Australia, coming home for a little bit, doing a run, and then going to Europe. And then also compound that with rehearsing with a top-notch band. It was a crash course in music industry, for sure. How records get made, how records get on the charts. I mean, there were so many things about it that were new to me. And when I came home from the tour, I felt like I had lived in LA and worked for, you know, 30 years. It was such a crash course in the music industry, but 88% of it favorable. And the 12% of it? Not so, but you know, there were things along the way that were really problematic. Michael's manager, I think as a young female artist with men and power,

11:26it can become problematic. You know, I want to know, did that experience inform not only the music you wanted to make, but the kind of musician you wanted to be in the world. Because you said in one interview recently, watching Michael quote, it was the first time I started thinking about why some people can manipulate 60,000 people physically. Yeah. I wondered what you meant by that or what you were thinking about. I look at Michael and I think he is the embodiment of somebody who's, I mean, you have the ego, which is obviously the flawed part, but then you have this other part that is completely anointed in the spirit, basically. I mean, that he could bring people in a way where it's physical. I mean, it changed the molecules in a whole stadium. People who were just enthralled and feeling music and crying and just,

12:27you know, I've always said that there is a fine line between being able to really wield this connection, but also knowing that you're doing it. And I think the moments when you're really lost in it are pure and beautiful. And he had so much of that. And then there's the other parts too, where it's orchestrated and it's more, you know, ego-driven. And we all have it. And thinking about what would become your first release record, Tuesday Night Music Club, what's the track that best encapsulates the kind of song you wanted to make? What was the first song where you felt like you actually spoke your mind? I think I shall believe was probably the one that came the closest to who I was. I mean, there were songs on that record that I really felt like spoke to who I was in that moment, you know. What can I do for you?

13:28Yeah, what I can do for you really addressed the sexual harassment that I endured on that tour. But songs like, you know, strong enough were very, you know, very true to who I was. But I think, as I believe, is really the one that's probably the closest. Just because it talks about being broken, but it talks about not giving up on yourself. Let's take a listen. This is I Shall Believe from Cheryl Crowe's first record Tuesday Night Music Club. I say

14:40That I only come home when I'm so alone I don't believe That not everything is gonna be the way you're thinking of it Seems like every time I try to make it right it all comes down on me Please see honestly you won't live above me I shall believe I shall believe That was I shall believe from Tuesday Night Music Club When you look back on that period now Cheryl I hear it in that song I hear it in what I can do for you As you said in it like those songs it sounds like a young person who has older people

15:41particularly Michael Jackson's manager trying their best to squeeze any last drop of innocence left in that person Is that how it felt? You know I was raised a very close-knit family My dad was a small talent attorney with big cases that were steeped in civil rights and all kinds of things I mean he was like an Atticus Finch kind of guy of loved books, my mom, an incredible singer And they raised us with this ideology of like work really hard and be a good person And things will work out for you right? So when I went on that tour and I just you know I was exposed to a lot of things that I do think Sort of robbed me of my innocence about how everything works I came home from that tour First I visited an attorney to help me like what do I do and this attorney said by the end of the meeting you should feel

16:47Sometimes you have to put up with a certain amount of things in order to have the kind of success that you want Put up with what? The kind of well I was being promised that my record would come out and the top ten that that's how it works His response was well if you look at what they're offering you Sometimes you have to put up with a certain amount of you know and so a certain amount of sexual harassment Well basically yeah and so I went home from that tour and I called in the bed and about six months later my mom showed up And said this is not the way you're going out and that was the first time I ever got into therapy And it was a it was a game changer and it was a life changer And I'm always kidding in my kids I'm like you have a college fund and you have a therapy fund I really hope that you use a therapy fund Right? Great if you go to college that's awesome too And I don't know I came away from it a different person but I also came away from it the same person but stronger

17:50I believe it was Bob Dylan who said to you once quote you record a song and then spend the rest of your life trying to find the perfect version of it Yes that is exactly right What was the context in which you said that too? I've had some funny experiences with Bob I mean he was one of the first people I got the chance to open up for And I got to know him a little bit then and then through the years but there was one point I think it was the late 90s I was going through a really hard moment where I could not finish anything I could have all these great ideas and then I just couldn't finish him And I had read that Bob had had a really long bout a writer's block And he had told me anytime you have any problems or you just want to pick my brain about anything call me So I thought you know what? I'll call Bob So I called Bob and I said hey we talked for a little bit and then I said hey I'm having writers block and I understand you had writers block at one point

18:54And he's like nope never did And then I said he said well how long has it been since you finished the song I said God I feel like I've been struggling for like eight months Oh that's bad But he told me he's like you know get your band together and play like an old muddy water song or play like he's like recently I got the band together and we played He played a song by Boy George I believe it was come on come on come on come on come really understand like that He's like just jam on it for a while and then start writing your own lyrics over it and the next thing you know you have a song And you know little things throughout my life little moments like that have really seriously formed moments that came after them Like getting my band together and jamming on something and finding my way through it so he has been instrumental in a lot of the big moments of my life We're listening to the conversation our guest interviewer San Fragosa recorded with Cheryl Crow

19:54Her new album is called pick you up the conversation continues after a break I'm Terry Gross and this is fresh air I can't record I'm paying no more to your shirt I check the other And I'll play a small bit I pour a drink I pour the blinds I wonder what I'll find I'm making my stay guest

20:55I show Stay tuned for the following announcements and messages from our sponsors This message comes from wise the smart way to manage your money around the world with wise you can send spend and receive money in over 40 Currencies at the mid market rate learn more at wise calm tease and seize apply this message comes from better help better Help is in network with more than 125 health plans with an average copay for eligible members of just 23 dollars per session don't have eligible insurance you can still get 10% off your first month Visit betterhelp.com slash NPR to explore your payment options. That's better HLP dot com slash NPR This message comes from AT&T people love to stay connected right now at AT&T you can get the new iPhone 18 pro for zero dollars with iPhone trade-in any condition

21:56It has the ultimate pro camera system and a big leap in battery life to keep up with your day So you can turn this deal into a long lasting connection Connecting changes everything requires trade-in a iPhone 14 or higher excluding iPhone 16 E and eligible plan Terms and restrictions apply subject to change visit an AT&T store for details This is fresh air. I'm Terry Gross. Let's get back to the interview our guest interviewer Sam Fragosa recorded with Cheryl Crow Her new studio album is called Pick You Up. It features seven new songs which she describes as Commentaries on being human and wanting connection. They were written by Crow and her longtime collaborator Jeff Trott Crow's best-known songs include All I Want to Do If It Makes You Happy, Soak Up the Sun, and Everyday as a Winding Road Can we take a listen to a song of the record the Globe Sessions? Sure This is called My Favorite Mistake

23:06That was my favorite mistake off the record the Globe Sessions. That's the album that you have called your favorite record. Why is that? I don't know. I think at that moment where I just picked up and moved to New York City Had had a break up and had made an offer on a house that I loved and didn't get the house and Thought, you know what? I'm just going to move. So I moved to New York and I set up my equipment in a warehouse in the meatpacking district And it felt like such a glorious change of scenery, especially while I was sort of looking my wounds.

24:07Were you in love at the time or was that one of your periods of favorite mistake? I was, but I was newly out. I mean I was still in love and Case in Point I wrote that song because I was really looking my wounds. And in my defense. You're not on trial. I always say this. I always say I've I have loved some amazing people and then I've loved some other people as well. So and we'll leave it at that. We've talked about like you having high highs. Yes. And low low. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Can you tell me what happened in that Boston hotel room? Oh wow. Yeah. Where you call your manager up. I think you're distressed on the road. I was I think first and foremost I was really tired because when you're always going. I mean we were really playing five or six nights a week like we play three nights day off or nights day off three night. You know. I think if you're a person who already struggles with mental instability or whatever.

25:15Becoming that fatigued and also losing your perspective can be detrimental to your mental health. And I remember calling scooter my manager and just saying I'm in Boston. I don't want to keep going. I don't know what to do where to go. And so he came pick me up. We went to New York. And I went to Mount Sinai and got help. I mean I was just not able to figure out the difference between what it meant to feel alive and okay or what it meant to feel like you didn't want to be alive and okay. And that was a turning point. And it was very helpful. You know. And out of that you know came I mean I think the weather channel was one of the things that came out of that song. It's a beautiful, beautiful song. Oh thank you. Why don't we take a listen to it. This is Weather Channel. I'll be album. Come on. Come on. From Cheryl Crow.

26:39I'm running. Can you make it better for me? Can you make me see the light of day? I got no one will bring me a umbrella. So I'm watching the weather channel waiting for the storm. That was Weather Channel. Off the record. Come on. Come on. From 2002. Do you remember writing and recording that one? I don't. It's funny. We were working at Clinton Studios in New York City. And I had been doing some writing with Steve Earl and we were messing around.

27:43And then he left the studio and then Trina says that I went into the studio and I said I have a song I want to sing. And I sang it, playing the guitar and singing it live on the mic. All one take. And I actually did not remember it at all. So when we were mixing she's like what about the song Weather Channel and I had absolutely no recollection of it all. And when she played it for me I burst into tears. I had no recollection of it. And they had me on a medication. I think it was called Adivine or something. Which evidently I think can mess with your short-term memory. But I didn't earn a writing it. And so we wound up finishing it, put a little bit of strings on it and put it on the record. And what are you brought back to? Yeah, I mean I don't ever sing it where I don't think about that. You know I think about what it must have been like to stand there and play that song with no lead up to it and no aftermath.

28:47That is one of the things about music that I find to be mystical and divine. Is that sometimes we don't really know where music comes from. But that if we get out of our own way, just like all art I guess, if we get out of our own way that sometimes we get something. And that line, I don't feel so human. Did it take leaving Los Angeles and moving to Nashville? To feel human again. Yeah, you know it's funny that that song when I think about it. My dad used to talk about Winston Churchill having like struggling with depression. How you called the black dog and just the fact that that is in the song. And I don't have any recollection of writing it. And what did he make of the song? Well, you know I think he has avoided the fact that he also has distinct bouts of loneliness. But now we handle it differently. I mean I went on antidepressants and that was a game changer for me and it really helped me at that time.

29:53And it helped me to lift the bottom but also lowered the top a little bit, you know, just so I could sort of re-enter life. But I think also at a time when everything seemed like it was falling apart, when I got diagnosed and the paparazzi were all over me, it felt like you know what it's time to move to someplace that feels more connected to my humanity. That was Nashville mainly because I had family around here and it felt like a gentler place to make music than a place that felt very commerce based, which was LA. So Cheryl, you record most of your records on this compound that you have in Nashville. I believe in a studio that sits atop a horse stable. Is there also a chapel on the property? Well Sam, it's funny you should ask that. Yes, there is. To quote field of dreams if you build it, they will come.

30:57Yes, there is. And by it, do you mean men? That's the day. Yeah, I'm always like, I'm going to get married in that church. So far a couple of people have gotten married in that church. Is that true? Yeah, actually, that's true. When that happened, really like, well, I mean, I feel like I should have first dibs on this. I don't want to get married. I'm very, very happy. I liked what Dolly said when somebody asked her, do you think people should live together before they get married? She's like, I don't think people should live together after they get married. You said, I think you were talking to Bill Marr and you said something funny. You adopted two children shortly after relocating the Nashville. And you said, quote, I don't know if I was cut out to be married. I just, I want to know, do you think that's true? Listen, I come from, like I said, a close-knit family. My parents are still married at 71 years.

31:57And they have a high functioning relationship. They have years of making each other laugh. I'm sure they have years, you know, where it was a struggle. I think for me, having been on the road so much during my earlier life, that was never conducive to having a working functioning relationship. But I chose that and I loved it and I wouldn't change it. It is a lot to ask somebody to be in relationship with a woman who was always gone. And by the time I moved to Nashville, I'm a big believer in talking to God. And we had a little, I'll call it a come to Jesus. I was like, I'll row that boat across. And if you meet me with a couple of kids, that's great. And if you don't, I'm great with that too. You've blessed me so much already. And she did.

32:57Or he did. Or it did whatever God is. My guest today is award-winning musician Cheryl Crow. And her latest album is called Pick You Up. We'll continue our conversation after a short break. This is Fresh Air. Stay tuned for the following announcements and messages from our sponsors. This message comes from Aliens Travel Insurance. The kids are with grandma while you're at a resort spawn Italy for your birthday. Then your phone rings. Instead of hearing the happy birthday song you were hoping for, you hear a symphony of toddler sniffles and sneezes. Not the kind of homesickness you were expecting. You decide grandma can't fend off the germs alone. Luckily, trip interruption benefits can help cover the extra costs of heading home early, saving you money while you save the day. Learn more at Aliens Travel Insurance.com. This message comes from Granger. This is the story of the one. As a maintenance supervisor at a manufacturing facility,

33:59he knows keeping the line up and running is a top priority. That's why he chooses Granger. Because when a drive belt gets damaged, Granger makes it easy to find the exact specs for the replacement product he needs. And next day delivery helps ensure he'll have everything in place and running like clockwork. Call 1-800-Granger. Click Granger.com or just stop by. Granger. For the ones who get it done. This message comes from Lisa and their lineup of beautifully crafted mattresses tailored to how you sleep. Go to leesay.com for up to 30% off mattresses. Plus get an extra $50 off with promo code NPR. This is Fresh Air. I'm San Francisco. So today I'm talking with award-winning musician Cheryl Crow. To go back to the beginning of our conversation, when you write songs like strong enough, this is a young person, late 20s or early 30s, in some ways writing about the road ahead. Like those early songs, there seemed to be this preoccupation that you had with the future.

35:03Yeah. And moving towards it. And now you're here in it, playing these songs around the world, that a younger version of you wrote. And I wonder in playing a song like strong enough. How that comes together in coalesces for you. Now that you're in your early 60s. Well, it's funny. You know, early days, you're playing all the hits, and you're really tired of playing the hits. You're tired of playing all I want to do. And you're like, I have to play this song one more time. When you get older, that is when you learn what gratitude is. And it makes a huge difference in the kind of shows that you do. And you know, when you get older, I think you spend more time obviously reflecting than you do looking forward and thinking of all the things that you're going to accomplish. Which is not a bad thing. It just is a byproduct of getting older. And I feel a sense of gratitude that I did not have when I was young because I was always chasing the next hit, chasing the next.

36:03You know, what's the next thing? And that's more pressure. And this is more joy for me. You know, every time that my band and I are always laughing. Every time we go out on stage, we feel like we're getting away with something. Like, did they, are we really supposed to be here? Did they make a mistake? Like, we can't believe we're still getting to do this, man. You know, it's just, it's amazing. And to get to play songs that people are singing back to us is, you know, dream of dreams. Do you want to play strong enough for a second? Sure. I always tell my audience that I happen to engage three times. I've never been married. But I've never been divorced, so I still have all my money. It's a very bad joke. I've got to feel like, hold a night. A tease of rage I cannot fight. That'd be the last to help you understand.

37:06Are you strong enough to be my man? My man. Nothing's true and nothing's right. So let me be alone tonight. Because you can't change the way I am. Are you strong enough to be my man? Light me up a promise I believe. Light me up a lease, don't leave. That was strong enough of the record Tuesday night music club by Cheryl Crow.

38:12Growing up in Missouri, your dad was a lawyer, Atticus Finch, like as you said. But he also played the trumpet. Yes. And your mother played piano. I think both of them were huge inspirations, along with James Taylor and Carol King. Is there a song that we could end on that we could play that is the track that young Cheryl Crow would go? That's the thing I want to make. Well, it's interesting. I wrote a song about my upbringing. My upbringing was unique in the fact that my parents played in a swing band. And they would go to local areas. And they would come home. And they would have wine and smoke. And they would play records like Count Basie and Duke Ellington. And they would play along. I mean, stand up based trombone.

39:12Our living room would be filled as if we're supposed to be sleeping upstairs. But we never were. We were always down. You know, laying on the stairs listening. It sounds like this was their own Tuesday night music club. And I thought every kid grew up that way. So I wrote a song about it called We Do What We Can. And it was full circle getting to have my dad come out and play on it. You play trumpet on it. Let's close on that track. This is We Do What We Can. Off-Share All Crow's first album, Tuesday Night Music Club. Downstairs they play Kitten. The house set to sleep. They lay in my bed and listen to everything. Cause Leo's in red form tonight.

40:13His trombone seems so sweet. This is the room where they all come to meet. And you said, I do what I can. I live for the moment that's why. That's why. Isn't it good? If we could freeze moments in time we all will. That was We Do What We Can. Off-Share All Crow's first record, Tuesday Night Music Club. When you hear that now, both your parents are still with us, right?

41:17What does it bring you back to? Oh, you know, I can smell the cigarettes and the cigars. I can see the brown shag carpeting, the magnavox for you kids that are my age. We had a big magnavox console that they played records on. It just takes me back immediately to that. And to the knowing that my dad would rather have been a musician. And probably my mom as well than to have been a lawyer making house payments. And then I wound up going on and doing the thing that he dreamed of. So there you go. How do you hold all that? You do hold it, but it also informs you. You know, it's a part of your story, it's part of your mythology. All those things become your DNA and your fabric. Cheryl Crow, thank you so much for the time. Sam, thanks for having me. It was fun.

42:18Great talking with you. Cheryl Crow spoke with our guest interviewer, Sam Fragoso. He hosts the interview podcast Talk Easy. Crow's new album is called Pick You Up. After we take a short break, our criticate large John Powers has a review of the new Netflix series, My Said Dead, about a Buenos Aires doctor with the power to communicate with ghosts. This is Fresh Air. Stay tuned for the following announcements and messages from our sponsors. This message comes from Ali Ann's travel insurance. The kids are with grandma while you're at a resort spawn Italy for your birthday. Then your phone rings. Instead of hearing the happy birthday song you were hoping for, you hear a symphony of toddler sniffles and sneezes. Not the kind of homesickness you were expecting. You decide grandma can't fend off the germs alone. Luckily, trip interruption benefits can help cover the extra costs of heading home early, saving you money while you save the day. Learn more at Ali Ann's travelinsurance.com.

43:18This message comes from Granger. This is the story of the one. As a procurement manager for a hospital system, she keeps every facility in her network stocked and ready. That's why she counts on Granger to be her single source for thousands of products, from disinfectants to lighting, air filters, and more. And with fast, dependable delivery, Granger helps her keep every facility stocked, safe, and running smoothly. Call 1-800-Grainjer. Click Granger.com or just stop by. Granger for the ones who get it done. This message comes from Lisa and they're lined up of beautifully crafted mattresses tailored to how you sleep. Go to leesay.com for up to 30% off mattresses, plus get an extra $50 off with promo code in PR. This is Fresh Air. The new Netflix series, My Sad Dead, is about a Buenos Aires doctor with the power to communicate with ghosts. It brings together two of Latin America's most acclaimed storytellers,

44:19Chilean filmmaker Pablo Lorraine, and Argentine writer Mariana Enriquez, who short stories form the basis for the show. Our critic at large John Power says that My Sad Dead takes the horror genre in weirdly compelling directions you can't quite predict. Even if you don't believe in them, ghost stories are eerie. They take place on the threshold between our daily world and a mysteriously unknown realm. Now many movies and books cross this threshold merely to scare the bejesus out of us. But the greatest ghost stories aim to do something more, such as capturing the weight of Mexico's past like Juan Rufo's Pedro Paramo, or exploring Juan's own madness, as Stanley Kubrick does in his adaptation of Stephen King's much sainre the shining. You find that brand of ambition in My Sad Dead, a new Spanish language Netflix series, centering on a woman who can see and talk to ghosts.

45:19Weeping together three short stories by Mariana Enriquez, who's been dubbed the Sorceress of Buenos Aires Horror. This four-part show was directed by Pablo Lorraine, the Chilean filmmaker who's best known here for movies about Jackie O starring Natalie Portman, and Lady Dye starring Kristen Stewart. But Lorraine's always at his best closer to home, and here he's made a show whose blend of creepiness, melancholy, sarcastic humor, and political anger is unlike anything else on TV. Mercedes-Marine stars as Emma, an anti-social 60-ish doctor who has a gift or maybe a curse. She can see and communicate with ghosts. First in her retirement, she moves into her family's grand old house to live with her dead mother, who's still present and grumbling as a ghost. Now Emma can't help the dead resolve their problems, like Jennifer Love Hewitt did on that old show Ghost Whisperer.

46:20But she can calm them by talking to them. Emma spends her days soothing the dead, swapping barbed words with her photographer daughter, who feels ignored in favor of the dead, and going to community meetings. Life gets trickier when her sister and brother-in-law fly down from the US along with their daughter Julie. That's a terrific Carolina Sanchez Alvarez, whom they intend to stick in a mental institution. Her parents are horrified by her obesity, and loud moans drink supposed orgies with the dead. But Emma feels a bond with her niece. And when Julie escapes, it triggers a series of events in which suddenly everyone in her neighborhood can now hear the cries of the dead, which drives the mad. When three joyful young women are gunned down and again killing, locals call on Emma to help stop the victims' incessant wailing. She grudgingly does this, but also begins searching for Julie. Now both Enrique and Lorraine are fascinated by the liminal space connecting life and death,

47:25but they're not interested in telling a conventionally scary horror story. My sad dead has no lurid melodrama, no shot cuts. Instead, it uses Ghost to evoke the actual material horrors of today's Latin America, where the powerful wound and ignore the powerless. This is a hard thing to pull off on screen, but Lorraine does a terrific job of conjuring up Emma's somewhat alternate reality. The cinematography is a slightly bleached out old videotape look, which makes the physical whirlfield a tad transparent, open to the other side. And individual images are often uncanny, from the camera's smooth glide as it follows Emma through Buenos Aires. To the overhead shots looking straight down at scenes of death and dying. Is this Ghost Camp? Lorraine shows up Emma's once fancy neighborhood is turning into a ghost of its former self, himdened by soulless architecture, druggy encampments,

48:27and housing projects exploding with violence. With her distant gaze and blank ash-gray hair, Emma looks like a seer, a somewhat irrascible one, whom Lorraine imbues with riveting charisma. Where Julie loves her close encounters with ghosts, her smile is a wonder. Emma is worn down by decades of helping, suffering spirits find momentary peace. This only makes her angrier at her country's rulers for failing to look after all the Argentine people. In those community meetings, she snaps at her middle-class neighbors for despising the poor, or letting fear of crime lead them into calls for quasi-fascist policing. I think it's not accidental that in Reakes and Lorraine should be drawn to ghost stories, with their intrusion of past lives into the present. They grew up in countries where thousands were disappeared by military hunters in the 70s and 80s. Both Argentina and Chile are still haunted by their political victims.

49:30And you sense this watching my sad dead? Emma feels a responsibility to the dead, to hear what they have to tell us. The better to understand, our responsibility to the living. John Powers reviewed the new series My Sad Dead, which is streaming on Netflix. Fresh air is executive producer Sam Brigger, our technical director and engineer is Audrey Bentham. Our engineer today is Adam Stanishevsky. Our interviews and reviews are produced and edited by Phyllis Meieres, director of Shorok and Mrible Denato, Lauren Crenzel, Theresa Madden, Monique Nazareth, Susan Ycundi, Anna Bauman and Nico Gonzalez Whistler. Our digital media producer is Molly Seveen Esper. They are a channel director today show, Our Co-host is Tanya Mosley. I'm Terry Gross. Stay tuned for the following announcements and messages from our sponsors. This message comes from Schwab. You can get everything from self-directed investing to full service wealth management all in one place.

50:33No matter your investing goal, life stage, amount to invest or know how, you can invest your way with Schwab. This message comes from Thumbtack. Avoiding your unfinished home projects because you're not sure where to start? Thumbtack knows homes so you don't have to. Don't know the difference between Matt Payne finish and Satin or what that clunking sound from your dryer is. With Thumbtack, you don't have to be a home pro. You just have to hire one. You can hire top rated pros, see price estimates and read reviews all on the app. Download today.