Stacey Abrams on Midterms: What's Going to Happen?

0:00Welcome back to We Can Do Hard Things. Today is surprisingly wonderful. Surprisingly because we are talking about midterm elections. Wonderful because we have the incomparable, magnificent, inspiring badass, Stacy Abrams, who is an antidote to despair with her wisdom and action and knowledge. And you're in for a real treat. So listen in, we're setting the stage. We are exactly six weeks from midterm elections today. And in a world full of very, very bad news, very, very often, we are coming in hot with three pieces of good news. Okay. Number one, we are two day, 610 days, into the 1461 day Trump's second term.

1:03That's good news. It's good news. We are 42% of the way through 42%. Just think about that. In a hot, we'll be over the 51. Yeah, that's true. That's a lot of bullshit. Okay, we're almost there. We're almost there. The glass is half still full of Trump. The point is, we're still a glass. We haven't cracked. That is a feat. I am proud of us. Good job. This is what midterms mean. The folks that we elect. This is number two in six weeks are the ones who will be in office for the second half of the term. They will be elected in November. They will take office in January. They will take us through the last two years, which means they are the ones that will have the power to either continue to enable the circus of devastation or terrain him in. Okay. I don't like the term, but it's usually called lame duck to whether he is going to be able to be emboldened to continue to do his stuff or whether he will be ineffective for the second half of his term. If he does, we could call him a lame fuck.

2:05That's good. I'm not supposed to say lame because it's like an endless term. So I was trying to think we need a new one. We could just call him a dumb fuck. A dumb fuck. Let's call him a dumb fuck. We're going to try to make him a dumb fuck president, which shouldn't be hard since he already is. Okay. Number three. This is the three bits of good news. Remember, number one, you're already 42% there. Number two, we have the opportunity to make him a dumb fuck. Number three. In the Senate, the magic number is 51. Okay. We need 51 Democrats in Senate to overcome the fact that the vice president gets a tie-breaking vote. If it's 50-50, Republicans win. So we need 51. So we need 51. That means that the Democrats need to pick up at least four more seats. That's what we're actually talking about. That's the magic number to get to where we need to be. Right now, the good news is that we have a real chance to take Senate seats in Maine. For the love of God, please know more Collins.

3:07We deserve more than this. Oh, God. North Carolina. And Texas. I know we have believed this before. But there is a shot in those three states. Also, we have the possibility of flipping Alaska or Ohio and Iowa and Michigan are also in the mix. Like, there are real chances here. Okay. This is good news. For the House of Representatives, the magic number is 218. Dems need 218 to have them, Jordy. This is notwithstanding the fact that there was this massive racial gerrymandering after the Supreme Court passed the Kelly decision, which if you want to do, I know that I did. But despite that, which we had much better chances before that, even so, even with the gerrymandering, we have a real fighting chance. It looks like right now the Democrats and Republicans are pretty evenly split with likely wins. And it's all coming down to about 21 very, very close races. That will make all the difference. So you need to be aware of this.

4:08They're in Florida, Iowa, Michigan, North Carolina, Texas, New York, Ohio, and Michigan. Texas, New York, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Colorado, Wisconsin, Washington, Arizona, California, New Jersey, and Virginia. Okay. Also, regardless of whether you are all blue or all red in your state and you think it doesn't matter, it does. You need to show up anyway because the down ballot really matters. All right. We are going to be guided through today with St. ABC Abrams, who has spent decades effectively organizing people. She is a dreamboat. And what I love about her is she is always fought for power in places where people who believe the things that she believes and look like her have traditionally not had power. So she knows a lot about power, which people who are trying to make us feel powerless don't want us to know. That's what she's talking about today. Come on over and take a listen, y'all. Stacey Abrams.

5:08Stacey Abrams. Leader Abrams is here. Wow. Let's go. It's actually happening. No pressure. Look, I now have new best friends. I was just expecting to say hi. So this is a really nice welcome. Oh no, this is a really big freaking day for us. I can't believe it's happening. Okay. Hello. It is an honor. Likewise. I am a huge fan. Okay. Yeah. Are we recording? Did we get that on tape? Did we get that on tape? To send our parents after this? Because that's what we have to make. Absolutely. And while I'm not the most avid soccer fan, I do know that I am in the presence of greatness as well. And as someone who has sister to five other people, you know, you know, this is the whole thing. I'm good. Stacey Abrams served in the Georgia House of Representatives for 11 years with seven as minority leader.

6:08In 2018, she became the Democratic nominee for governor of Georgia in which she was the first black woman to become the gubernatorial nominee for a major party in the United States. And one more votes than any other Democrat in the state's history. Over the course of her career, she has founded multiple organizations devoted to voting rights, including fair fight, fair count. And American Pride rises. Abrams is a New York Times bestselling author and host of the podcast assembly required, which you should listen to. And right now, as lead organizer of the 10 steps campaign, she is laser focused on mobilizing to curb the rise of competitive authoritarianism in America through the 10 steps to a talker see an authoritarianism framework. And equipping folks with the tools to fight back through her 10 steps to freedom and power today. We are going to find out exactly where we are in those steps. Please and thank you as well as what we can expect in the upcoming midterm elections.

7:13Thank you for joining us leader Abrams. Absolutely. So really small, low key things. Yeah, just real quick, quick, and then if we'll have time, we'll just move on to other things. I'm good. I'm good. So as we approach midterm elections, they are exactly six weeks from today. Listener, we are in it together. Many of us are seeing kind of an authoritarian takeover while others of us are seeing just another election happening. So leader Abrams, if you could just shoot it to us real straight. When you're looking at the United States right now, where are we on the continuum between functioning democracy and authoritarian state? We are what is known as a competitive authoritarian country. We have the perks of democratic institutions, but those democratic institutions are being leveraged to achieve authoritarian ends. But let's take a big step back. What do we mean by authoritarianism?

8:14Because we often sort of dive into the diagnosis without explaining the definitions. So an authoritarian country is a country where the people in power sees power from the citizens, from the residents. They take your power. They then hoard that power to a really small group. You can call them tech bros, oligarchs, Trump children. You see the power being aggregated and hoarded by a very small group of people. And so all of the people's power has been taken and it's hoarded. But the real defining feature is that there's no accountability for what they do. It's why corruption always follows authoritarianism. Because if you're going to steal and you're going to use it for your own benefit, you don't want anyone to say anything to you about it. And to dope then is democracy. Democracy is about shared power. Even if we don't like each other, we share the power. It's kind of like being siblings. Some people are going to be happy on Thursdays. Other going to be happy on Saturdays. If you're the youngest, you probably get everything you want all the time. But you're going to have to share the power.

9:16But then you leverage the power for the benefit of others. And that's the second part. So where they hoard it, democracy is ideally when it works at its best. It's sharing that power and then leveraging it for everyone's benefit or at least for the benefit of those who need the help. And it's not going to be the same thing every time, but it's always the intention. And the way you make sure it works and that there is a process is that you hold people accountable for what they do with that shared power. And that's why we have elections. That's why we have open government. That's why we used to have public media. But that's the whole point. The other thing to recognize is that for a really long time in this country, we all thought we were heading in the same direction. We were headed towards this more perfect union. And we were just in a disagreement about how we were going to get there. And this, I think Amanda goes to your point about people who think we're in deep trouble or this is just politics. When it was just politics, we were arguing over whether we were going to get there using Apple Max if you were a Democrat or Google Maps if you were a Republican and ways if you were an independent and you start crashing to people's houses because, you know, group thing for topography is kind of difficult.

10:21But we were all heading in the same direction. But we're not doing that anymore. Authoritarians have a very different destination in mind. They look like it's just yesterday. But their intention is very clearly different. And it's often fascism. And that's the last time I've wrote a list. Fascism is about ideological intention. What do you want to make different? What kind of purity are you demanding? And in this case, their fascism is functioned around white Christian nationalism, proto-natalism, and a xenophobia that says anything that isn't what they want isn't right. And so what we've got to understand is that being a competitive authoritarian country says we look and feel like a democracy. But it's kind of like, you know, I can't believe it's not butter. I can't believe it's not democracy, but it's not because they are trying to steal our power, court it, and never be held accountable for how they do so. So even in this framework for folks who say, look, six weeks from today, we're all going to go vote.

11:23Crimea, river, about all of this doomsday talk that you're talking about. What you're saying is that that is consistent with the competitive authoritarianism model. And in fact, has been replicated over and over in other countries where there is a free election, but it's not a fair election. Exactly. So authoritarianism begins with the last free and fair election because they are usually elected into power. That's how they get there. Otherwise, we're talking about totalitarianism, dictatorship. It's usually an election. And the reality is the reason it's competitive authoritarianism is it feels like what we had the day before it started. And it's using the institutions we're used to. But let's think about the courts, for example, because one of the perque visits, it's step three in competitive authoritarianism. Step three is that you weaken competing powers. Well, we've got a court system that has basically abdicated responsibility and the chief justice of the US Supreme Court.

12:28And at one point in 2025 said, we can't make him do anything. I'm paraphrasing, but he's basically said, we can't make him do anything. So why hold him accountable? So we have a court where we're not arguing over what the law says. We have a court saying we don't think we can make the law do what it should. So we're not going to do it. And that's why we have this expanded shadow docket. We didn't have a shadow docket six years ago that every other decision made by the Supreme Court. There was no hearing. There was no public notice. There was just an unsigned opinion saying you can run a mock. When it comes to Congress, we've had two shutdowns over whether or not it was okay to murder Americans in Minneapolis or whether it was okay to strip Americans of their health care. And in both places, what's happened is yes, they use the systems were used to the arguments were used to, but it's on steroids and it's to the goal of denying us a say in our government. And it's to benefit an authoritarian regime that doesn't want to do what it's supposed to do. That's why it feels different. It looks just like what we did before, but the consequences are different.

13:37And therefore the outcome has to be seen through a different filter. It's the kind of thing that someone who was having this plan might say in the last election. This is the last time you'll ever have to vote because next time we'll have it fixed so good, it won't matter. For example, you know, if you want to quote you know somebody who eventually becomes leader of the free world or what used to be a free world. Yeah, okay, just for people who haven't had the benefit of going to your 10 step site, can you just run us real quick through those 10 steps because I think it's so granular the way you talk about it and show it's kind of like flipping through a photo book of our last few years. I have like the worst spring break you ever had. Can you just run through those so people know what you're talking about when you're saying that. Sure. So again, starts with the last free and fair election and they mean the last. The second step is that you see an expansion of executive authority. You look at the news every other day saying, oh my god, the president's doing what? That's expansion of executive authority.

14:40Things we didn't think a president can do they do and things we know they shouldn't they do anyway like accepting a multi billion dollar plane from a foreign nation without the requirements that Congress usually follow. But in order to do all that step three is that you see a weakening of competing power. So Congress goes complicit and the Supreme Court our judiciary basically goes inert. Then step four is that you see the attack on government itself authoritarianism works because people don't think government will serve them. So make sure that they can't get food or housing. Make sure that farmers can't get with any make sure that we're afraid of lettuce. That's when you break government so that nobody trusted anymore step five you install loyalist you end up with someone in charge of the department of defense who thinks that he's some sort of 10 pot patent or you have someone in charge of health and you have someone in charge of health and human services who cares neither for health or humans apparently you have someone in charge of the FBI who was a podcaster before he got the job and you put loyalist in place because loyalists are not answerable to the people they're answerable to the power which is why the head of the department of justice is literally the attorney for Trump right before he becomes the attorney for Trump again as the president of the state of the state.

16:00And as the leader of justice department like that it's exactly that test and when people say well wasn't it like this before no if you remember that's why people kept quitting in the first administration because they were actually answerable they were worried about what they would do the day after it ended these folks don't care because they only survive if he survives that's loyalty to the power step six you have to attack the truth that's why the FCC spends all this time trying to shut people down it's why Jimmy Kimmel and Karen Ahtia and others who try to speak up it's why we no longer publicly fund public media in what used to be the bastion of democracy in America but it's also why they lie to us about what is true because you can't just attack the people telling us truth you have to attack the truth itself because when you attack the truth then the propaganda seems normal. Step seven you scapegoat communities you go after immigrants people of color the LGBTQ plus community you you demonize transgender children as though they are the reason that we are fighting a foreign war or that immigrants are the reason that inflation is high you connect the dots by attacking people because you have to make someone responsible for everything you've broken and in the US we are incredibly efficient and we just call it DEI and so when they attack DEI

17:21they don't mean black kids going to Harvard they mean any community that is ever required government intervention so they can participate in the American dream. Step eight you attack the support systems that's why they began by suing universities and law firms the people who taught us stuff and the people who defended stuff and then you go after philanthropy because they are people who pay for stuff. You attack those support systems because then people are afraid to stop you they're afraid to displace you step nine you normalize state violence let's remember that Washington DC the capital city of the United States is under military occupation if you go there national guards been carrying weapons are wandering the streets with the impromatur to take action. We live in a military state but we have also seen an armed mask ice a military police a secret paramilitary police kill people that step nine and you do all of that to get step 10 and that's where we are undermining our elections because step 10 is that you end democracy for everyone but authoritarians love elections let's be clear they love elections because it's the you know great leader they love people saying how wonderful they are they just don't like fair elections and so you attack male.

18:36You attack people of color you try to get voting roles you try to pass a save act so women can't vote you do all of those things because you want elections you just don't want the election outcome and those are the 10 steps to authoritarian in this kind of talk or see. As many of you know who listened to this podcast dressing myself is a huge challenge for me the clothes I end up loving the most aren't ever the trendy ones they are the ones that somehow make me feel kind of put together but also completely comfortable if that's you to then welcome to the next. Next generation of island Fisher their new fall collection is simple enough to feel timeless but current enough that it feels exactly right for right now I just got the cashmere crew neck top this gorgeous wool drape neck coat and define wool alpaca classic collar coat in this kind of very rich coffee brown I can already tell that they're going to become real closet staples for me explore the new collection of island Fisher dot com and received.

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22:10I'm thinking about what are the 12 steps of the people during this I'm so glad you have Stacy has a plan for that yes so if you go if you go to the 10 steps campaign I began by laying out the 10 steps to authoritarianism talking to group of young people who asked if there would be democracy when they graduated from college back at July of 25 I'm like I don't know what I'm doing actually when I explained it to them I got picked up when I was on the Jimmy Kimmel show to talk about how a eyes going to kill us all but we can do that later and then I talked about it what got me and gets me every time is that people want to know what do we do and so the 10 steps to authoritarianism and a talker see are matched by the 10 steps to freedom and power and that's what we call it and if you go back to the beginning this is all about power the power to take the power to corrupt or the power to be answerable and so the 10 steps to the

23:10freedom and power are we have to commit to knowing what we face we can't pretend that this is business as usual number two we have to share what we know so you go on podcasts like this where people are hungry for the truth but don't necessarily know they have questions step three you have to organize that means a few people I'm the daughter of pastors we believe you know we're two more gathered you got church you had three to five you got an usher board seven you got choir so we just have to organize and then you mobilize and mobilization isn't just about no Kings rally it's about feeding that immigrant family that is afraid to go the grocery store it's about going to the school where they have slash snap benefits and children are hungry mobilization simply means reminding people why we do this together the next step is that we have to litigate we have to not just sue but we have to argue the case because the other side is loud and we are so complacent sometimes because either we don't believe it's true or we don't think we should say something but if we don't litigate for democracy we lose it the next step after that so step six is my favorite which is that we have to be disruptive so you have to cost trouble then which I love step seven you have to deny you have to deny them the ability to steal our language I talk about DEI all the time

24:25yeah and their friends of mine who are like will stay see that's really out of favor no they want us to change our language because when you change your language you change your mind it's true and I will not and so we have to decide what truths do we hold and we've got to deny them the authority and the ability to steal it from us the next step is that we have to engage step eight engage show up talk about things make sure those who hold power know we see them and if they don't do what we want with the power step nine is we have to elect new people that's why we have elections because if you do those nine steps step ten is we get to demand the democracy we deserve and at the ten steps campaign we tell you how to do all of these and we even tell you what kind of democracy defender you are we have a quiz we've got resources the whole point is not just for me to sit on a call and say here's what you should do is to help you find what to do and the last thing I'll say a lot of us think we have to be able to do everything or we can do nothing everything everywhere all at once fantastic title for movie terrible mission statement we can all go do something somewhere soon

25:34so I need people to pick the one thing or the two things they want to do and just do it because it doesn't take everything it takes all of us doing something and that's how you save democracy I love this so much because as terrifying and chilling as the steps are to authoritarianism what both sets of steps seem to be revealing is that this like core truth that authoritarianism doesn't actually require most people to support it it doesn't require most people to reject it it just requires people to conclude nothing I do matters exactly it's not the opposite of authoritarianism isn't some doing everything all the time nor does it require this kind of polyanna belief that anybody else has the answer I think that's what's happening right now people are looking at Democrats and being like oh shit and then they're looking at Republicans and being like oh shit more and then you don't have a belief in anything and so you just throw your hands up it doesn't require optimism or a fidelity to a system it's just participation in any level

26:48so you're speaking my love language when people ask me are you an optimist pessimist I'm like I'm neither I believe in determination optimism requires a set of beliefs that aren't necessarily always grounded in truth and pessimism requires that you ignore how good things can get I do determination I can only control what I do and I cannot do everything I consider myself a bit of a Costco of democracy but I can't do all this stuff but I can do something and the minute we recognize that their goal is to convince us that we've already lost yes I grew up in the South I'm a black woman from the deep South I didn't Mississippi and Georgia with a little sword turn over to Texas so I'm good at this you have seen the promised land I looked I lived in Connecticut when it was a Republican so look I've not been good at picking the places that want me to be I but wow but what I am is I'm determined to fix it where I am and we've done it before we have come through the

27:49misogyny of this nation that was embedded from the beginning it took a century plus for women to have the right to vote my communities my grandparents not only my grandparents my parents grew up under Jim Crow and people treat it like it was a long time ago my grandfather my mother's father was born 25 years after the end of slavery that's how recent that history is but that's why I'm also so bullish about what we can do because all we have to do is decide we're going to do something and if enough of us decide to do something they cannot overwhelm all of us my god every time someone says the democrats don't have any good messaging there's I'm like you're just giving yourself a way that you have not listen to stacey Abrams such a powerful message it's kind of like who needs enemies when your friends are the people who are like it's over we've lost that's not a thing we can do we don't have the luxury of doing that and that's playing exactly into their game I get the despair because I have it but I also get that that is a strategic goal if they get us to believe we've already lost

28:53that is their only way that they win so that feels very exciting to bring us to what is happening in six weeks from now which is our midterm elections I mean for me six times shame on me but there is reason to be hopeful about the outcome in terms of democrats potentially taking the senate in the house and then really historic races like the one in your state for governor so are you willing to tell us from where you sit deep deep deep in this forest what you're thinking about the midterms is other than that this is what we need to do to get there what are you feeling in your heart about that possibility so this is just a secret conversation between us and I can tell anybody oh shit no okay well tell us the one we can't tell anyone and they can we record a little piece where we can't help people I'm I'm teasing I'm okay like I've assumed I've been recorded since like 2014 so don't worry about it I'm sure you have Stacy I'm sure you have okay so here's the thing the midterms are a referendum on two things one it's a referendum on the ability of

30:06authoritarian to completely decimate our sense of ownership of this country yes and so part of what we have to do is know that by showing up we are showing them that we are still willing to claim our patriotism yes but the second it's a test run because they don't care about the midterms they care about 2028 the voter suppression that we're seeing is all about how do we shave off enough points in this election so that we don't have to work to worry about the outcome in the big election because whatever happens in the midterms it's going to give us a bridge but it's a bridge to what happens in 2028 yeah and let's talk about what that is number one there's a guy you know who's term limited but he's got some acolytes who want the job and they would not just continue what he's done there are architects of this overthrow of our democracy who've been waiting for 60 years to manifest this and they don't care who sits in that seat he is a proxy he's like the snake oil salesman or he's the guy at the you know use car lot he doesn't own the cars can't fix the cars but he's really good at selling the cars but if you need to sue somebody he has no money and you're never going to be able to find them and so we get so fixated on the salesman we ignore who actually owns the lot owns the cars and lied on the blue paper so we've got to remember that that's what this is about 2020

31:352024 the margins were so thin Harris lost by 1.5 million votes that's a suburb and yet we think that it was this mandate they know it wasn't a mandate and they can count they know all of the communities they've been attacking if aggregated can change the outcome of this country and by 2046 the US is a majority minority nation and why does all of this matter because the midterms are about them testing the state of the country testing how much they can get away with how much they can break and how we will respond but for us it's a test of what do we want how hard will we work to get it and how far down the ballot will we go to protect ourselves I care about Congress absolutely I'm doing as much as I can to elect senators and congressional members but I care about governors because I'm from the south and I know that once they lose power in Congress they're coming after the state and so I'm working on state legislative races not just chambers we can flip although I'm working on those I'm looking for places where they have a super majority so they can pass a constitutional amendment saying, Women can't go outside and let's not pretend they won't try it and so what we've got to do is make sure that they have to fight us for everything, I'm a Democrat by political leaning I'm a patriot by birth and my patriotism says that I fight for the democracy

33:03I want Democrats to implement the policies, but the democracy has to stand. And what they really want this midterm to be is the end of democracy. That's right. They want this midterm to convince us that we've already lost, but more importantly, that it doesn't really matter below the line. And so your question about what I'm thinking about in the forest is that I care about the midterms, but I care more about the day after. I care more about what do we do with what we get? And how do we use it to make sure we get to keep what we have? Because in 2028, we have a presidential election, but they will also lock down the US census for 2030. Yeah. That census tells us who we are. And if they can weaponize that census, they will lie to us about who we are, but it's also how we spend the money on who we want to be. And so I'm bullish that we can win, but I'm also very, very clear that the election is the opening. It is not the closing. I just want to ask about election day.

34:05Like I want, I think if I'm a person listening right now, I'm thinking the corruption is open. We're all watching it. So of course, we're not expecting election day to be fair, right? What should we be looking for? How do we show up on election day and fight back against all of the little teeny and big corruptions? We're going to see the intimidation at the polls. Should we be voting early? Malin Ballet. Should we do that? What can you tell us that will help us fight strong on election day? Okay. So voter suppression has three parts. One, can you register and stay on the rolls? So make sure you check your registration. And if you haven't registered, register and stay on the rolls. The second is can you cast a ballot? And that's the mail-in voting issue. The reason they're going after mail-in voting is that we don't live in 1790 anymore. People don't all have time on a Tuesday to walk to market and go and vote. And so we have created multiple methods of voting, mail-in voting being the strongest. And what's annoyed them is that for years, it was largely the province of Republicans.

35:10Now everybody uses it and they think too many people are voting. And so mail-in voting is under attack. Right now, the Supreme Court has not allowed them to end mail-in voting. I know people saw headlines saying, the Supreme Court cite no. What the Supreme Court said was that the states that had sued were not ready to sue yet. But they have yet to weigh in on the underlying question of mail-in voting. The US Postal Service is trying to stop it from working, but they can't figure out how to do so quite effectively. And as of September 4th, North Carolina is already sending out ballots. They were in entire states to do nothing but mail-in voting. And I am fairly confident as a strong word. I don't think they're going to break it right now. I think they're going to test to see how they can. But what we have seen in recent days from the Supreme Court, especially because of what they did in Missouri, and I'm happy to talk about that, is that the Supreme Court knows they're being watched really closely. So they'll do a lot to destroy democracy, but they do still have at least the basement level standards

36:13of let's not break it in plain sight. So the second one is, can you cast a ballot? Then the third is does that ballot get counted? And that's why there's going to be voter intimidation. They want to have ice at the polls. Well, Rulac and Unitas and Common Cause just filed a lawsuit to forced all ice being at the polls. Because Brett Kavanaugh and Supreme Court said, yes, you can interrogate anyone who's a personal color or who speaks the language that you don't understand or has an accent as a black woman from the South. It's just a terrible set of things. I don't typically have a Southern accent, but you know, it could be problematic. But what we know they want to do is intimidate people at the polls because that's worked. And so we need people to show up. There are chaplains that are practicing being poll watchers. There are organizations that are doing this. So if you go to 10stepscampaign.org, slash elections, we have a whole election center that can tell you how to get involved. But can you register and stay on the rolls? Can you cast a ballot and does that ballot get counted? And yes, we have the ability to do all three of those things.

37:13It's going to be hard. They are trying to make it impossible. They have not won yet. And the antidote to voter suppression is not to stay home. It's to show up and bring friends. Make them work for it. Do not give it to them. Okay, y'all. This is Amanda, a quick post script to this part of the conversation. A few hours after we recorded with Stacy, the Supreme Court actually issued a ruling blocking Trump's executive order, which would have restricted mail-in ballots. So this is a major win for mail-in voting. Mail-in voting, there has not been evidence of fraudulent use that President votes by mail 30% of voters in the 2024 election voted by mail. So we can officially put all of this to rest and please spread the word mail-in voting for midterm elections remains unrestricted, unchanged. If you want to vote by mail, please do so. And please spread the word.

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41:19and getting care that actually designed for what I'm going through. It's time to get back to feeling like you again. Visit joinmitty.com right now to book your first visit today. That's joinmid.com to book your first visit. Joinmitty.com. So you said it's the day after the election that you care about. You leader Abrams are in charge of everything the day after the election. If that's the most important thing, if it all comes down to what we do, if we get the ball, how we run with it, what play we're running, what are we doing? Okay, so if we're in Congress, we need our congressional members to immediately pay attention to whether they intend to actually seat new members of Congress. And we can't hold back and think, well, let's wait and see what they do. No, we need to start talking about the fact that every member of Congress who got elected on November 3rd is entitled to take their seats in January

42:22because they count on us being too steeped in tradition to question Ignomini. They don't mind it. So they did it before with the Arizona representative because she was going to vote on Epstein. They didn't see her for what, 60 days or something? Yes. So we've got to start beating the drums, starting the day after that this is so. And here's, let's be clear, we will not know who is representing California at that point. And that's okay because mail-in balloting takes longer. We are good. We have a whole couple of months to get it right, but we need to talk about whoever wins gets to take the seat. That's number one. Number two, at the state and local level, we needed to have shown up for those elections, and we need to start going to hearings. Most state legislators are going to start hearing about the budgets before we get into session. They're going to be hearing about possible bills before it starts. If you show up in January, you've already missed the party. And so call your state representative.

43:23Whoever won, they need to hear from you. And they need to know you are watching them like a hawk. Politicians are like teenagers. They respond to money, peer pressure, and attention. And so we've got to pay attention. If you got some money spend it on getting the right people elected, peer pressure only works if they think that somebody else is going to do the right thing or the wrong thing, but attention is our currency. Pay attention. And then number three, every single person who got a vote, whether you vote it for them or not, if they hold that seat, they are answerable to you. Your partisanship is private. Their leadership is public. And they need to be afraid that if they don't do what they're supposed to, you will make sure they do not hold that seat the next time around. OK, that's good. I'm going to do those things. Yeah, for sure. I feel stressed out about still doing the rest of the podcast. I feel like we need to go now. I know. I know. I'm doing these things. I wrote it all down. I think I won't be able to listen to this later.

44:24You talk a lot about our need to think, especially those of us who just became politically engaged when Trump started scaring the shit out of us 12 years ago. For some of us who are newly engaged, there is this very upsetting thing that keeps happening, which is things keep going wrong. Can you talk us through a little bit about how, I mean, especially in those races that you ran, what was reported to be losses, but so many wins, including if you just look at the state of Georgia right now. I mean, can we take a moment, a stacey Abrams appreciation moment of silence to say that you two democratic senators, including one black man, a woman of color running to potentially and running ahead, running ahead. And that is so clearly a line of not only your races

45:25but your organizations. So show us the wins that are in those losses so we stop with the vending machine. Yeah, so I'm going to actually invoke Abby for a second. So when you think about sports, nobody thinks you show up at a championship game and you win. Number one, you have to fight to get there. You have to win a lot of games and you have to lose a lot of games. You had injuries. You had bad calls. Terrible things happened. And sometimes it was your fault. Sometimes it was their fault. Sometimes it was just fate. But you never quit playing simply because of a single loss. And you never assume your opponent when you win decides they're the minute you score a goal. They don't go, oh, now we've lost. We're going to go home. And yet that's how we treat politics. We don't win and we take our marbles and go home. Or we're like, well, we don't think we're going to win. So we're not going to bother practicing. We're not going to train. We're not going to do scrimmages.

46:25They do all of that. They practice every day. They play every game hard. And they never quit because they know that the next time around, they may have lost, but they can win. And so our first responsibility is to recognize that this is not a cinematic moment. This is a process. And you don't win a game. You win life. That's right. Whether you think your end of politics or not, politics is into you and it is a stalker. Yes. That's so funny. We've got to get that. If you're a woman in 27 American states, you do not get to control your health care. If you are an immigrant in the United States, you are afraid to go outside. If you are a child who is trying to figure out your sexual identity, your gender identity, you have been told that you are a demon by people who hold power. If you're a person of color, you've been blamed for planes falling out of the sky. Those things are real.

47:26And if you're not any of those categories, I promise they are constantly expanding their categories. They're coming for you next. And so my work is grounded in the reality that sometimes you don't get a victory, but you get progress. I did not win twice. I came really close the first time. I came less close the second time. And for many people, the interregnum that 2020 election is what defines what I do. I am deeply grateful for the role I got to play in delivering electoral college votes for Joe Biden, for electing John Assof and Darofi Al-Warnock. But I am prouder of the 800,000 people who had never voted in a statewide election before to vote for me. I didn't register 800,000 people. I convinced them that for the first time, their voices mattered. And the day I lost, the day I made my non-concession speech, I acknowledged that I didn't win. I acknowledged that the other guy got the job.

48:27I even said, I'll pray for it. But I also acknowledged that the system that allowed him to deny the right to vote to thousands of Georgians was wrong. Because the other thing that you do, and you see this in sports, again, when there is a bad call, you don't just sit there and look at it, you call out the referee. You may not get the remedy you want. But the only people who can actually speak to the referee are the players or the coach, the people on the field. And if you are on the field, you have the responsibility to call out the problem. I did not win. Why I didn't win matters. Why people couldn't be heard matters more. And so the victories I claim are that more people thought their voices should be heard and they keep showing up, that we got people into office that no one expected to ever hold that kind of power, and that every single time we run new elections, new people find their voices and decide that they are worth the work.

49:29It's like redefining what success is, too. And we had a little one who, when she was on the field, and when she was young, she just, every time something went wrong, she would just burst into tears and on the field, and just ball. And so our win for her became, you can cry, but we just need you to cry and keep running. Just cry and run, cry and run. So that could be a vibe for us, right now. I mean, Glenda, you're right, because part of it is the opposition never stops. That's right. We don't get to either. And yes, you cry because it hurts, you cry because you're mad, you cry because crying feels good. But you run because if you don't, they're going to overtake you. That's right. And we can't afford to lose. So we keep running. Give us a Stacey Abrams way to understand how the Democratic Party, I mean, when I say this, I also mean just in our little family. We have a very politically engaged family with everyone has very strong opinions in our family. How do we, as a party or a group,

50:31communicate and unite the left and the centrist? How do we talk about moving forward to our kiddos who are saying, you let a genocide happen? How do I vote for this candidate? And when you give people freedom to think, they tend to be splintered. That is why Republicans are so united, because they don't often get to think. So if you have the Democratic Party, you're of course going to have a lot of groups who are infighting. But now, how do we unite so that we can beat fascism and then fight afterwards? There are two frames I use. So one is, I use dating. I used to write romance novels. So a lot of my analysis comes from being really bad at dating. So I don't trust anyone who's really good at dating. I don't, I'd like to be honest with you. I mean, you don't trust though, but anyway. That's another.

51:33And so when you're in a primary, you're dating all of the people who kind of fit your profile, but not exactly. And so the whole point of a primary is to figure out who is closest to you, who do you like the most, who's the cutest based on what you think is cute. Like if you're in the tall range, if you're into the short, whatever you're into, you're trying to find the person closest. But once you pick somebody, then you gotta decide, do you want to date the person who likes you or the person who plans to abuse you, cheat on you, and possibly put you on a date line segment? That's the difference. And we are still arguing over whether we're using Hinder Bumble instead of they are a serial killer. And so part of our responsibility is that we have to recognize that primaries are absolutely about competition of ideology and competition of who comes closest to our needs. But general elections are about who is going to save us

52:34and who is going to harm us. And they've been very explicit about their intention of harm. The second frame I use, and this is why I used to tell my colleagues when I was minority leader. My, they call you leader to make you feel good. They put minority in front of it so you never forget your place. And I could only get things done if I could work with people who I was diametrically opposed to on a number of issues. And what I realized is that I don't have to believe what you believe to get the outcome that I need to get. And so I didn't need you to share my values. I needed you to share my vision. And we spend so much time cherry picking the values and being so offended by whose values aren't incomplete alignment, we've lost sight of what we're looking towards. I want the people who are closest to me both in values and vision. But I do not ever want to be led by someone who's vision who erases me from the story. And the last way I talk about it, we use the term centrist in a way that is, I think, inappropriate.

53:38Because what is the centrist position on racism? What is the moderate posture on homophobia? What is the middle of the road place on dehumanization? I need people to tell me what they mean when they say that's where they are. Because if your success, if your comfort, if your convenience requires my diminution and my dehumanization, then we don't have values that are aligned. But we cannot say that you can't be here. We have to say, how do I move you to where we need to be? And that cannot happen if we refuse to have a conversation. I don't have to agree with you from the beginning, but we have to be able to have a conversation and we have to be willing to hear each other and move towards the common vision. Because the other side has been unacquivical about what they see. And I'd rather have our argument than theirs. I would too. I just feel like, when I hear that, and I'm hearing all of that, but I'm also hearing,

54:40you know, in my head, okay, then what is the centrist position on genocide? Like I can hear people saying, well, wait a minute. I, you're saying, like we as a people in America are saying, there is no centrist position on my dehumanization. Like I as a queer person. So there's no center there. And I hear the left of which I am apart saying, okay, we also feel the same way about the whole planet. It's not just about Americans. Like what about the genocide in Gaza? What about, so how are you thinking about socialists about all these elections? Yeah, go ahead. So part of the way I think about it is the conversation. We have these absolutist determinations. Like I believe that what has happened in Gaza is genocide. Do I believe that everyone who supports or who had a position believes that genocide was the outcome? No. My job then isn't to castigate you. My job is to have a conversation with you and to say, here's why I think this is genocide.

55:41And it is not to shrink away from that conversation because I don't want to lose an election. Because if my winning an election means that I am willing to sublimate my morality for your vote, then that's a problem. But if you legitimately do not believe that it is genocide, I need you to tell me why not. And I need you to treat me with the respect to say that what I think to be so is not accurate. And here's why. If you are a socialist, tell me what that means to you because we use so many terms of art without definition. This goes back to the very beginning of this conversation. We like to use big words. We spend a lot less time in conversation about what those words mean. I defend the rights of transgender children in part because I think that we have to have better conversations. People don't know the difference between biology and gender. They don't know how this works. But the problem is, if all we do is castigate you for not knowing

56:41and we don't do the work of educating, then we are at least complicit in the ignorance. Now, if we go through the whole process and you still come out wrong, I'm not voting for you. Or depending on who you're running against. Because then that's when you start doing, OK, what are the things that I can live without? And what are the things I'm going to let you get the job that I'm going to spend every day that you have the job changing your mind? Because that's the other part. It's not zero sum. If I can't get what I want, it's to try to get you where I need you to be. But if our only response is absolutist, if you're not everything, then you're nothing, then someone's going to fill that void. That's right. And that's the place that's hard for us because we want people to already be there with us. And the last thing I was part of my job when I was a minority leader, I had members of my caucus, Democratic caucus, who were anti-abortion. And I had members of my caucus who were absolutely strong advocates for abortion rights. My job was to recognize that I needed both of them

57:43because the other guys wanted women in chains. And so my responsibility was to make sure that we had conversations, but where we could not agree. I could respect what our disagreement was and still do my level best to defeat you if you tried to make your side right. But that did not mean that I denied you your humanity or your right to your beliefs. And sometimes we think our success requires someone else's failure. And I don't believe that to be so. So interesting when you're talking about the kind of the centrist view. And what does it that you mean when you say centrist? And I kind of feel like the same thing when people talk about electability in terms of when does electability become a kind of cover for their perpetuation of prejudice versus a electability as a legitimate harm reduction strategy, which is what you're talking about now. And for me, it relates to what is happening with the DSA that we see right now, the Democratic

58:45Socialist of America, where I'm actually wondering what your view of the Democratic establishment in terms of these DSA candidates were seeing because, for example, Angie Nixon in Florida, she is a, whatever the opposite of a Petri dish politician is. I mean, she is ground up. She nobody created her or picked her. She has been organizing union. She has just been doing it since the beginning. My understanding is that she recently associated with DSA because they were in some ways the ones willing to embrace her. In some ways, the Democratic establishment in some places is doing kind of the opposite of what they're asking the rest of us to do, which is to say don't have purity tests embrace us so we can get there. So what is your take on at what point does the Democratic party need to follow its voters and where they're leading

59:47and embrace those folks versus deciding who's in and out and kind of insulating this enthusiasm and trying to make it not in group? So the party is people. Yeah. And the reason the party gets power is because of what it can deliver. It delivers money. It delivers viability, meaning it says, oh, we like you and therefore you see more viable. It can give you money saying we will either raise money for you or we will introduce you to the people with money. And it has a convening power. It can bring people together to hear what you have to say. Anybody can do that. It's just the Democratic party can do it at scale. Right. That's why the party has power. But the party does not vote. People vote. And so the electability argument is a strong man argument. It is not harm reduction. It is strong man because the electable person is the person who wins.

1:00:49And that is determined by an election. Now, the responsibility in between signing up and the vote is to put your information in front of the people so they get to make their choices. The party can decide we prefer this kind of candidate. We prefer this profile. And if it chooses to spend its money in that direction, then the people who disagree can decide, well, I want to take those positions and I want to replace the people who made those decisions. That's our responsibility. But it is a false narrative that we've created to justify a phenotype of what we think power looks like. We use electability as an argument to say that we can only have what we've ever had if we want to get to what we want. But the problem is, if all we have is what we've ever had, we're going to end up in the exact same place. If our democracy had been strong enough, we wouldn't be in the position we're in today.

1:01:51Therefore, I think we have to welcome all comers. We do not have to welcome everything they bring. People come to a potluck and you know which plates go on a different table and you pass the word around, don't touch it. But you don't say you can't come into the potluck. Right. You just know not to eat the castles. Surely no one's touching your potatoes. Everybody knows. We love you. You're funny. Your potato suck. And if it has reasons, I don't know what happened. And I want to find you and I want you to come home with me so I can feed you and you can see what I'm thinking about. And decide, do you really want that in your potatoes? Just a potato centrist. That's good. OK, we know this is just one last question. All right, so there's a pod squadder right now who is, I don't know, just got off work, drive it or kid to soccer. She's politically aware. She's terrified about the country. She's overworked, overwhelmed between her job and her family

1:02:52and paramount impass and fascism and all of the things. She cares deeply about the future of this country. And she has two hours each week for the next six weeks to contribute to our democracy. What does she do? I want her first to pick the topic that worries her the most because the thing that worries you is what you're going to work on. So pick the topic and then figure out which election has the greatest impact. Congress matters. I absolutely want us to win Congress. But if you were worried about data centers, see if there is some money running in a county race who can sit on that zoning decision and say, I'm going to push for a moratorium. Or if they are pushing vouchers in your school and you know those vouchers are stealing money from your children in the public school system. And the IEP can't get fully funded because the money got taken away, then I need you to work on a school board race or state legislative race

1:03:53because state legislators decide how much money goes into schools. So I want you to pick the pain and then I need you to pick the person. And then I need you to find a friend. And the way you find a friend is that you've got a volunteer to either knock on somebody's door or make a phone call. Door knocking matters because when somebody sees you, they believe you. Postcards feel great and it's also remote. And I do not diminish the postcards. But in this moment, when we are so close, people need to see you there. They need to see that you care. And they need to have a conversation with you. They need to know that you there have been conflashes and you two can stand outside together. They need to know that you understand how hard it is to worry about your aging parents and your growing children. You know, those conversations happen at the door. And so if you have time over the next six weeks to give one hour, call that candidate and say, how can I volunteer?

1:04:54And if that candidate can't use you, then call the party, even if you're mad because the party can deploy you. Because everywhere in this country, without exception, blue state, red state, purple state, big, small, even if the outcome is already a foregone conclusion, there is someone running for office who your voice can elect to make a better outcome. And that's who need you right now. I love it. And then we just will stop asking, is there hope? Because the question is, did you do hope today? Like, that's it. Did you do hope? It is or it isn't based on whether you did it or you didn't do it. So you actually don't have to ask. You just ask yourself, did I do hope today? That's good. OK, and also just thank you. Thank you. Yeah, really. This was delightful. Thank you guys for having me. So if we let me talk about the Penn Steps campaign and waxing philosophic about many, many things. Listen, I'm 12 steper. You're a 10 steper. You have narrowed it down more than we have. You are teaching us to have this serenity and the courage.

1:05:57We're aligned. We're going to send everybody directly to your 10 steps. And we're going to keep beating that drum until midterms and beyond. Thank you. And just like a heartfelt thank you from the collective us that may never actually get the chance to have this amazing conversation in person. I know what you put on the line. And though I'm not in your schedule, I can imagine it is busy. And what you've done for Georgia, the state, what you continue to do for this country to keep us having the hope to go make hope happen. Just I wanted to say from my family to you, thank you so much. That means the world. Thank you. Thank you guys. This is really, truly so much fun. And it's such an honor to be here. It really is. Thank you. Today's C.A. Rums can do hard things. We'll see you next time, Pod Squad. We are proud to say that we can do hard things is an independent production brought to you by us.

1:06:58Treat media. Treat media makes art for humans who want to stay human. And you can follow us at We Can Do Hard Things on Instagram.