The Challenge: Cutthroat Recap | Episode 9

0:00This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. If you could wake up tomorrow and be better at one thing, what would it be? For me, it would be finding time to relax. Between multiple jobs and podcasts for various shows, life can sometimes feel like it's just go, go, go. Finding time to step back and just enjoy the moment each day would be, well, better. Better is a feeling, defined by you, and for BetterHelp, it's a BetterHelp therapist who really gets you. It's a focus on global, emotional well-being with thousands of therapists and millions of members in over 100 countries. It's progress. Sign up and get 10% off at BetterHelp.com. That's BetterHELP.com. This podcast is supported by your Southern California key dealers. Around Southern California, it's easy to spend plenty of time behind the wheel. Whether you're commuting from OC or heading to Santa Barbara for the weekend, going farther between fuel stops is something everyone can appreciate. That's exactly what Kia's hybrid lineup is built for. Kia offers five hybrid models that combine turbocharged power with hybrid efficiency,

1:05with some delivering more than 600 miles of driving range on a single tank. One model that really stands out is the all-new 2027 Kia Tell You Ride hybrid. It offers seating for up to seven passengers, the confidence and capability of a three-row SUV, and a turbocharged hybrid powertrain that delivers impressive efficiency for fewer stops at the gas station. It's ready for weekday errands, weekend getaways, and everything in between. If a hybrid fits the way you drive, Kia has a model designed to fit your needs. Learn more at Kia.com or visit your Southern California Kia dealer. Challenge specialist John and Alex are back to recap episode 9 of the Challenge Cop wrote, you know, the last couple of weeks have been a little bit of a downer with felt like triple DQ, Coriapno leaf because of his daughter and everything, just losing so many people without challenges going on. This episode felt like a return to form.

2:06Despite the fact that there's some terrible, terrible formatting in the season that I'm sure Alex and I will get into very in-depth because it is a big piss off and I'll honestly, however, we had drama this episode and it did not feel like manufactured drama. Sometimes these type of fights feel manufactured. This felt like genuine fights, even if the entire context of them wasn't in the episode so we didn't know what was going on exactly. We had an elimination that was actually incredibly exciting, depending on how you feel about the people who are in it and everything. But I think this, to me, felt like the season was getting back on track after it was derailed the last two weeks. Do you think Alex? Yeah. One sec. It's just this entire season I think was, we've been hyping up the season so much at the beginning and then as soon as we hit this, like, kind of dead air of the last two episodes

3:09to get conflict and I wasn't sure what was going to happen with the blue team and great team merging. There would be conflicts there because there were three on each and it was clearly even going into it but this delivered much more than I could have expected here even if the storyline seemed to come out of nowhere. Yeah. I really enjoyed the episode. It was also very good. A lot of drama, a lot of decisions being made. I do have fears for especially now that with some time pass we've seen the next week on. Like we at least get to have one week where it's semi-normal. But really, this is where I'm like pro and against production because production made the choices they had to do given other decisions that they made. So once you eliminate four people, what do we do to ensure that we have this many rounds

4:10we get to the final at this stage? And I think they did almost the best of a bad situation. I think the main mechanical issue I would have done was somehow, some way you just make it where even it ends up being a mixed gender elimination. The losing team only sends people down. I don't feel like there's any reason to essentially penalize a team for winning and you're like congratulate you one and in that sense you get to pick who you are going to put down in theory. In theory. But we get way into that. Yeah, but in this instance it should just been like okay, orange lost, orange you need to put two guys down there. And then we go down there and it's I think we actually get a better episode out of it because you have for weeks now Justin talking crap about CT.

5:11You then also get CT's realization that he isn't as comfy amongst this team as he was thinking he was. And then you have that elimination. You have it all come to a head right there right then and you could potentially have a J 2.0 situation or you see CT overcome. Yeah, I think for the storyline perspective that makes a lot more sense. Unfortunately, it's not the hand we are dealt here. And I you bring up a really good point with these eliminations. This is production kind of happening to do things on the fly. Clearly they wanted this to go a certain way. I think they I think we were ready for this format down to two teams no matter what. I don't think they thought that we would get down to two teams where there was one person from a gender on a team. That would be into that would make it so that they had to go in. So before we get into all that aspect of the episode though, we do start with the new Blu-ray team. Who knew that Johnny was predicting this was going to happen back in the first episode

6:12when he made that ridiculous shirt. But here we are. The blue and gray teams have merged together to form one team consisting of the six members from those teams that were taking out of the game. And now there's this question of who can be the captain. So that's a little more complicated that it might see on the surface just because there's three blue members with Cara, Annoly and Letty and the three gray members in Chris, Cassidy and Adrian. And it really does make it complicated here because neither team really wants to see their position, especially given what they already know about the format. We know that the captain is really important to determine who is going into elimination. And if that's the case, who this captain is is really important for almost everyone on this team that isn't named Chris. Yeah. And obviously there's a lot of other stuff that has come out since then.

7:17And multiple other people on the team have mentioned their stuff. I haven't been able to watch any of that. But if you just give the context of what the game is right there, I honestly don't. I expected more of a push from Chris. Like, make it a guy's day. Like, it was so similar to like Tori in the first episode where it's like, well, what happens if there's a tie? How long will they find out? So I know like Chris mentioned in his exit interview that they were all expecting it to be another girl's day. And that's why like we see Michelle's freak out when they mention what the new terms of the game are because they're assuming it's already a women's day. So Michelle's going to go in regardless in that bubble. So they're like, oh, we're going to give it to a girl. But in my head, I'm like, well, if you think it's a girl's day already, that's even more reason to give it to Chris. And then because most of these people are wanting Chris to run the final with them. You give Chris this power because they know that I think Chris has made it clear almost

8:21similar to Adrianne where he's going to do the best thing for the team, not necessarily what's best for people that he has known longer. So Cassie is going to be going in and Ali is going to be going in if you give Chris the captain ship in a world where it's a girl's day. And then you find out what happens if they do make it a guy's day. But I think there was a reason for them to all believe it was going to be a girl's day because like, why would you suddenly make it more guy's days when you just eliminated four men right in a row? Yeah. It's like the logic's there for what they were thinking in the moment. Do you think production said Chris can't be the captain? Do you think there's a possibility that he's not going to be the last man remaining on the team? There's potential that they had some meddling in there, but Chris starts with him pitching to be a captain. So I truly believe Chris is on who's claiming he's going full Westberg, men on us, and retiring

9:29from the challenge. He would say in the exits that, yeah, production, production made me do it. But you have to also look at it in the other way. Let's say they didn't a world where they didn't say Chris could not be captain. With all the girls' opinions, going to be a girl's day, all these girls are going to in one way or another, think a little selfishly, well, what can I do to get that power so I can ensure I'm safe. And there's the infighting amongst all of them of being like, well, we want to make sure specifically these people aren't safe. Yeah. I mean, that's really what it has come down to this entire decision on who's captain is, who's going to keep who safe. And we really see that, I mean, obviously Chris mentions it in his exit interview with Juan Parade with Mike Bloom. How he, you know, there were a lot of emotions going through this team. There was a lot of high emotions, a lot of people who didn't really like each other,

10:31didn't really trust each other. And there was a lot that wasn't shown in the episode that we now know about because people like Ladi and Cara have been talking about on social media where Annaly said, okay, let's make sure that one of the blue girls is captain. Like, we can't really concede this. And then came back and was like, you know what? I think Cassie's okay. And everyone kind of read that into being, yeah, of course you're the Cassie's okay. Cassie will always protect you, Annaly. So that made them a little suspicious of Annaly at that point. Cara was getting a massive push from the orange team to be captain. Like Ladi was saying that they made signs like Cara for captain signs. The orange team did so. Well, that's Cara productive. It is. It is very kind of one card to be the captain. And but that also sort of leads into like daily where without giving us any context through nine episodes, well, eight episodes and then into nine episodes. Suddenly we find out that bananas and Cara have been working together this entire game.

11:35And what capacity, who's to say because like in the terms of the game outside the first few rounds, there's not really like a moment here or there where they're really able to protect each other, which again, like this whole episode is so confusing with all the inter team alliances or intra intra team alliances where it's like. It's much just like you guys know each other and you say you want to protect each other. It's just like. And today if there's only two teams. Yeah. What like what good is that? What that that kind of thing is prior to this merging and when there were still three teams left, you could still kind of have cross team alliances and things that really work people looking out for you and stuff. Obviously we saw that previously, right? Like with Michelle and Tori and Chris and some of the other people around there. So to find out that Cara has kind of looked into this, they kind of make sense with like the Tori Michelle of it all. Like we know that they kind of got close through 40 and everything.

12:36And we're in opposition to Johnny, which is why it doesn't really make sense that bananas is also part of this conglomerate. We know Cara is close with CT because of the whole Boston of it all. So it makes sense that Cara would be working with them except we're at a point in the game where there is no reason to try and help the other team because now it's just an us first them situation. So when we get into this daily, and TJ asks for a captain and the orange can really pushing Cara to nominate herself, it doesn't make sense. Like it makes no sense because now Cara is just putting herself in a position where it seemed like she was going to have the votes to do it, but like it didn't 100% go there. And the easiest way to stop tension Cara trusted Adrian is just what it came down to. Cara trusted Adrian. It was very clear that Cassidy and Anna Lee were kind of on the outsides with Adrian being captain. It was something that Chris was happy being captain as well.

13:38And let he was like, yeah, sure. Cara, if you if you trust this, let's go with it. It makes sense as to how Adrian ends up being captain. We also had the moment in the as we see this team meeting between the blue team where Anna Lee suggests that someone who's been in the sand should be captain, which to me, like how I read that scene in the episode was, oh, this is like a massive advocating for Cara here. Like this seems to be the role. Yeah, but they're all seeing it as. You're assuming that we wouldn't vote Cara and amongst all the rest of us, you're the only one who has been down in elimination because all of us were able to play better. But that's the thing. It's also be real here. I love Cassidy, but this cast doesn't on this season. No, I don't. I don't know what it is exactly about. It could just be that she's associated with Anna Lee and their friends.

14:43It could be all these rumors that people decided to just like put out there that, oh, well, because Cassidy needs the money. So bad, she's going to steal it all from you. So then no one is willing to because it's like, you even had Chris in the episode before all the all the shit hits the fan. And in reality, the different order happened. He was going to vote for Adrian instead of Cassidy, but felt obligated to vote for Cassidy in that situation. So it's not hard for him to pick Adrian because him and Adrian think very much alike. They both see each other as among the better people amongst this team. They're going to protect each other to the best of their abilities because they want to run the final together. Chris is one Adrian had a strong showing like they both feel confident in that. But yeah, Anna Lee just doing that. It's a lot of what this team is actually going to have Anna Lee and Carr. It's a damn if you do, damn if you don't. It's like, oh, you didn't speak up. That's your fault. But then when you speak up, it's your fault for speaking up.

15:46It's now we're thinking you're just doing something that's self-interested. When we're doing stuff that's self-interested. And that's what you love about a show like the challenge because it's one of the few reality shows where you can really just have hypocrisy just consistently hit you in the face. And Ed Blumkin mad at you for doing what they are also doing. It's one of the beautiful, beautiful things about the challenge, right? The fact that in other social strategy games like Survivor or Big Brother, you have to kind of navigate the way you eliminate people from the game in a way where you need them to vote for you at the end of the game in order to win, right? So you have to kind of maintain your relationship. So that's why we don't see as many big blowups in those shows as we do in the challenge. The challenge also has this unique factor where you're with the same people over and over again. So that also leads to tensions. Yes, it can make it so that we get like the vacation alliance, which is super boring and just riding for each other at the entire time. But it also makes it so that we have rivalry. That's why we have seasons based on rivalries in the show.

16:47It's because the show was for bad in a way where you can do that. And when you have these conflicts here, I think what it really can down to. Let me mention this in her Instagram post today that. Anneli was really riding for this idea of blue. Okay, we'll vote like Kara captain. That's fine. And then realized she was on the bottom of Kara's list. And that wasn't good for her. And that's clearly where this like push was coming from. For cats to you to be captain instead. So I think it was really smart of letting Kara to be like, okay, Adrian's like the better idea for us. And then riding with Chris again, like you mentioned earlier, the person. I think every single person here wants to protect his Chris because that's who they want to run the final list. Yeah. And I will say like I will give like sort of like a slap on the hand to letty and Kara here because like what they really needed to do no matter what they feel about Anneli,

17:47they need they needed her to be on side. Because especially when we get down to it and obviously production could pick in a different way depending on what they're expecting because obviously production comes in expecting that Adrian's going to be called based off the other conversations that we don't see amongst all of them. So that's why they do Cassie first and then they do the rest who all end up picking Adrian. But they did the same order regardless. There's an opportunity here where if you're the blue three and you can just like get past all this other stuff and just be like we think we can do this. Cassie votes for herself Adrian votes for herself. You then have the opportunity for all of blue that just have picked any of the three could have been letty could have been Kara. It was never going to be Anneli. Let's be real. And you could three persons swept this because Cassie chose to vote herself and then Adrian chose to vote herself and then suddenly you have a whole different it's not even a whole different dynamic because like if all you have to do is trick Anneli into believing in

18:50it Kara gets the captain chip and she's going to throw Anneli in. But that doesn't matter at this point because Kara has the power and as long as her and letty are good she's never going to lose that power. Yeah, exactly. So we get into this Adrian is eventually anointed the new gray captain here and TJ explains like the rules of change. There's two teams now. We have to change the way the rules are working. The winning team. The captain will choose someone from the winning team to go into elimination. The losing team will kind of do the same thing they were already doing the captain picks one person and then they vote for another person to go in and then the captain from the other team will choose out of those two who competes in the elimination and Michelle has Michelle down. And it's great. He's fantastic. He kind of loved Michelle calling out production for how shitty this entire format is because as Michelle says, what's the point in winning?

19:54Right. Because like and it's funny because you're doing the TJ who doesn't make the rules but like obviously everyone pretends that TJ makes all the rules. Yeah. And you even see TJ looking a little dumbfounded as she's like having this freak out because it's true. In this format, which is just what they started the game with just because there's no 13, the winning teams playing one of their own in instead of just picking the one person from the last place team. So Michelle and Chris buy this format change, get put in a spot where whenever it's a guy or girl's day, unless in the one situation is where Tory volunteers to put herself in, it's always going to be Michelle on a girl's day. It's always going to be Chris on a guy's day. So it doesn't matter what your alliances are at that point. It doesn't matter how protected you are. We'll never know what would have happened if Chris was given the captain. I assume he still was going to be put down there, which is made Chris even more mad.

20:59We may have seen Chris quit on the spot. I think that world, but the inclination that production must have told them that Chris couldn't be captain because they didn't want that. Where's the captain's going? Right? I guess my only issue there is like, let's say they made it a girl's day. Michelle goes out and there's only Tory. It's like, well, then you're punishing Chris for not for not being captain at that specific moment. But Tory gets to be rewarded because she's the captain of that specific moment. Unless they say at the next round, Tory, since you are the last eligible woman, you are no longer eligible to be the captain and you must pick someone else on your team to be the captain. Like, that's the only thing that could have happened. And given what this season has been like, I wouldn't have been surprised if that's what it ultimately ended up to. But we have this moment. Michelle has her freak out. And I think it's just like warranted. And I'm like, thank you, Michelle, for coming back onto our screen. And it's funny because like, you'll see it online where it's like Tory and Michelle are

21:59just big mad this episode because they have to actually play the game now because it's only two teams. They do. Yeah. It's very reminiscent of like, obviously getting the Korean 41 after the hour left and everything. The difference is like you said, in survivor Jeff is an EP. He does have a lot of say in what happens with the twists and everything in that show. DJ doesn't have that same power when it comes to the challenge. So it is a little bit of a different situation. However, it is good seeing these players call out production because it does need to be done. And the benefit of it is, I think a rookie probably would have been a little scared to do this if they're in Michelle's situation because they're like, Oh, what if I never get a spec because of this. Michelle has been 10 year old Michelle for long enough. She can be like, no, no, no, no, this is dumb. Like, what are you doing? You also know it's going to be a good TV.

23:02And she also knows she has a traders call coming along the way. So well, I don't think she do that back then. However, in retrospect, she has been pushing the beyond on that show for a while now. So it's only a matter of time. But let's get into the actual daily. Yeah. So in this daily, which I think I reckon, I didn't actually have the name of it this time. Anyways, it's essentially a game of telephone where there are two sets of statues, 12 statues that the team, someone on the team have to memorize what they look like and then communicate it to the next person. And then that person runs and communicates it to the next person, etc. And so he gets the last person who is then ordering those statues at the end. I kind of like this idea and concept. I actually think it adds like a big strategic element to the game that we'll get into in a second with like the bananas car conversation of it all. I think this is a really good challenge.

24:04It's just like, I don't like challenges that are we can't know how well a team is doing. I like knowing some sort of like visual representation. It is one of like my big pet peeves when it comes to challenges in these shows is I don't know if a team is doing well or not. I just have to kind of like trust the edit with how this is going. And it's like seen very clear as we progressed through this, which of the two teams was pulling ahead and be based on their strategy. However, this was so neat. Like I think the concept of something so simple as play telephone, but also run a whole lot of ways and climb a bunch of stairs. I like that in concept for the challenge. And I think the challenge does need to go lean into this type of thing a little bit more when it comes to their challenges of let's take simple concept. Just do it to the extreme. Yeah. And what I like about challenge like this is this is one of those moments and I feel like

25:06other challenges would mention it like this. I especially would expect like West if I ever were to have listened to his Patreon content, but you would never see me pay for more content. Only for here, only for here on that link below is the only Patreon content I have. But you should want to figure out how can you work smarter and not harder. And the problem with orange team was they're working very hard on two different levels. They're working way too hard on like trying to like be so precise and move stuff around and they're working too hard and trying to get caught to throw instead of just doing the thing which I'm surprised CT didn't think about this given he's Mr. CT Pro Tip. Devon actually mentioned this and it was something I was already thinking about but he like confirmed it to me. Whereas like on all types of puzzle challenges there's a pretty clear like identifier for production because production is the one that has to call the shot from the cameras.

26:08So it's like when I feel like if I'm CT one I'm looking at all these because like I have full access to all these where it looks like like Kara and Annelie actually have to be like from a distance away. So like they're seeing the stuff that's different that they can see easily. Whereas production is only looking for one specific thing. So like why would production be looking for all these things that become so complicated then sure that it's going instead of one universal thing which is why get Adrian such kudos for this challenge where like let's say Kara was throwing. Adrian could trial and error this and eventually win if the other team never picks up on what it is as she's identified which was the ring on each statue being different. Because instead you're focusing so much on like well this one had this one has a cape with flames this one does not this one has a super top this one does not or all the other ones are

27:10pointed. I'm like you're asking you're like I would have loved on set some point like realize you're putting so many variables out here that doesn't make sense for what like the challenge does. That's all there to trick the person that's doing the competition instead of looking for the finer detail. Yeah absolutely and we hear the way they're describing these things as well right and they're describing it like pointy hat black hat this one looks like that one and etc etc smooth line squiggly line squiggly line what the heck squiggly line they all have squiggly. They're all squiggly. So yeah like you said this is one of those like challenge hacks and good on Adrian for figuring it out because that is one of those things where she's just like I have to wait anyway so we'll just like turn move these around and see if I can do it and she found the exact identifier that is how production would determine if they're correct or not. Yeah it was very smart of her um and we should have figured it out in all honesty uh like I don't know. Well show two CT2 like all of them looking at these things should have

28:13been able to notice that. Like those three are the ones that should have figured it out. Everyone else is just their um consequences of circumstance because they're not the ones at the end and they're the only ones that ones at the end are the only ones that could not change positioning. Um so you have all that happen but I think the bigger detail here is what is the catalyst for the back half of the episode is bananas and Kara are at the same spot and bananas essentially is trying to uh swarm you like his way and manipulate Kara into being like look we're all working together it doesn't even make sense for you guys to win. If you lose Chris is the only one eligible anyway and then Tori can just pick whoever from our team but that would protect me and CT. So like she's more so CT in this instance of like trying to pull on Kara's like hard string bear of like protect CT at all costs not knowing what like Tori actually does have like some ideas

29:18of like wanting to put CT down there um I don't disagree with Kara's ultimate decision of not throwing though and while the logic the nans are saying in theory is sound it makes sense it's like it because it doesn't matter why should I go full all out in this and try to win it and put my like friends in a bad spot. Issues there's only two teams. I don't care if all my best friends are on the other team I want you to lose uh and also if it ever came out that Kara blatantly cheat or not cheat it but blatantly through. Look I don't trust Adrienne to keep her safe on the next girls day if she finds out that Kara threw especially let's say she threw and the same results happen in Chris goes home. Yeah. Kara's going right back in. Yeah but it kind of falls back on what we were talking about wax feet with that challenge where all the girls on orange were rowing and none of them were eating despite it being a girl's did right. There's no incentive for

30:23the guys to do that unless they like specifically want to maintain their numbers. There's no other reason to do that and bananas makes an even more point because of the stupid format that we have here where Chris is going in no matter what like it doesn't matter if you win or lose there's just a little bit more control for orange. I obviously is the correct decision to do this but orange could have retaliated by putting like okay we're putting in like CT and will which was discussed in the opposite later right right where it's like okay you have to choose between one of these two guys hope Chris can beat one of them or this way like maybe we'll like put in someone that you know Chris could be it's it's an interesting proposition by Johnny obviously we had identified it last week so I'm not surprised that someone like bananas would come up with this obviously he is trying to save his own ass here he is a little worried I don't know why he's terribly worried because I don't think

31:23he has a worry about being voted in it all nor does he have to worry about Tory putting him in so I don't see why he's terribly concerned in this place however he also makes a really good point that of all the challenges this is the easiest challenge to throw ever. Oh yeah all you have to do is give wrong information that's just slightly off could you can easily just be like look I'm not the puzzle person between me running and listening to that information and running over to tell you being slipped. Karas also is a third person in that lineup too like you can even pinpoint that it was Kara who was doing it wrong about she's in the middle of the telephone line. It would require a lot of people to be very specific of remembering who what was said and when and also how far off were you. Yeah and so it takes a lot of thought process that I don't think a lot of them would have taken including like MVP will here which by the way once again great work by the orange vets to just

32:32instill into Will's mind that he is the MVP of the team. Yeah and so essential for them to win when really you're the muscle like that is all you can do and even then like well I've been gassing out on those stairs too. Yeah but like he was more focused on going up the stairs than giving the information to CT and then whenever CT would be like here I need to do this Will's just complaining because he's going up and down the stairs. Yeah it's like I'll have to remember all three things before I go up and down the stairs. Yes Will is a memory challenge. Well and we also got to that point as well. I was it Kara who said it is like how many of you guys doing it once? Are you ready for your paycheck date to become the most irrelevant date in your life? Let me tell you about Ernan. Ernan is a non-bank finance app five million people in growing. The concept is almost annoyingly simple. You earn money you access it up to $150 per day of what you've already worked for

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38:46I don't hate the orange strategy just because as long as you're accurate like that's what you're banking on you're banking that you're being accurate so it's a quality over quantity. So how you know the saying always goes and I'm someone who would rather do quality than quantity because the more stuff you add especially down a whisper down the lane the more opportunities for things to change along the way whether intentionally or unintentionally. So if you do want to add time you also skip two things because if there's 10 items all you need is to be accurate on the first eight and then you do two checks. But that being said like the way the anomaly approach it where she was pairing the strategies right like we heard her talking one and four I think that's just more effective way to do it. Yes you have to be like reliant

39:47on the memories of people and everything but if you can really rely on your own memory that's fine and one of the big things we don't see is how long the challenge takes I imagine it's quite a while. There was a moment I'm assuming it was a little over an hour because there was a moment where they were showing I think close to when CT was doing his first check that it was like in the 50 minute range. So I'm imagining it was a little over an hour total because I would also have to think like we probably missed a bunch of checks from Adrian that they said was wrong while she was like figuring out the coding all the the rings stuff because we never see we hear her talk about it but we never actually see the path come back to like hey can you check for this specific thing on each hand and then come back and I get it you only have 40 something minutes an episode. But shout out to Adrian very good episode for her honestly overall like

40:49uh becomes like the the factor like default choice for captain that immediately like pays dividends by putting herself in a hero spot and like I'm not gonna say she's single-handedly one this like because we don't know how far off they were to begin with but she figured out the indicator that could help confirm that this was all correct because like you saw it as soon as she went for a check t-shirts just leaning behind it and immediately immediately hits the horn because production all new she was right. Yeah exactly so great wins which means Chris is going into matter what because he's on the great team and this format sucks and then it's a matter of like which of the other boys and the four boys on the orange she were going in and we have to keep it brief Alex because we'll have plenty of time to dunk in him later. Justin once again blame CT for losing a challenge. Oh I thought it was at this point I'm like production has to be asking him like hey

41:53oh yeah I'm thinking it was CT's fault this time too like because they see like first time it's like okay second time they bring it out it's like I think we have something here so they get into the thirrups I can't believe CT couldn't figure it out I thought he was the puzzle guy and he couldn't figure it out. That's not really good things I mentioned to people who are unaware of how production works on these type of shows right like they're not heavily influencing anything but they can still create a narrative by using pointed functions in these confessions to get responses that they want right that's why that's why you have like confessions earlier on the season we're annually talking about how great Leo is despite the fact that like all that stuff's going on and everything right but they production can still manipulate conversations in confessional to build a storyline because that is what production is supposed to do in these TV shows right they are supposed to give us a storyline if they see that two people are viewing they're gonna ask those people about each

42:54other a little bit more so we get a little bit more drama there it's just a technique here it's clearly what's going on with Justin yeah look here's your casting perspective piece here I know not late but it's like if you ever get on these shows you have you have two decisions you can make you can play ball and just be completely unfiltered and know that they are you are giving them an artillery that can be used to either really prop you up or make you like you would get that dodo music immediately throughout the entire season or you are smart and you read into what they are asking you and then be careful on what you say because you could be great for 99% of the sound bite if you mess up one percent of that sound bite or you say something that you didn't mean that's what's airing yep exactly so we get to the club obviously Michelle and Chris kind of talking with their current predicament of how awful it is that both of them have to go in no matter what

43:57because it is ridiculous I can't park on that enough um yeah it's dumb the victim Chris surely wants Justin Chris wants to take Justin on paper Chris should be Justin in almost any elimination yeah on paper on paper Chris should have been Justin at this elimination but agreed uh but look this is why you can't I understand his thought process and I think he was trying to be very delicate of how he was saying it yep because he didn't want to do what Rogan did no Rogan was there literally just like you know I'm probably going to get a head banger give me this scrawny like smaller guy and it'll be like work for me it's my path of police resistance I Chris that's what Chris is thinking too is overall Justin's going to be the path of police resistance uh and we'll help me get back like I think I would have been like very brief what this would be like my preferred

44:58on average is Justin let's see what the challenges uh or the elimination is when we walk in there if it's this this this or this I have a I have a signal for each potential option that you could like pick I think what it came down to yeah is Chris wants to make sure Justin is one of these nominations by the orange team because it's pretty clear the orange team wants to get rid of CT and we'll use Chris to do so but even with CT being slower I don't think I want to be in a hall brawl against CT right like I think Chris I think Chris could beat CT at a hall brawl but you don't need to risk it that way so Chris is beating this version of CT in a hall brawl if it happened in this specific moment in the season I would put money on it but yeah why would you want to tempt me exactly so by making sure that Justin's there and CT's there you can then make that decision like you could trust Adrian who is Chris's closest ally at this point to make that

45:59decision I see what is better for his chances of coming back that is what the captain's job is at this point right this preserving their own team so it makes sense that Chris is pushing for Justin Justin is scared that he's going to be thrown in right before the final again is this kind of the first time we've had this like final discussion on the season so far I'm like not like oh my god the final but like I'm scared of going home right before the final that usually happens a couple of episodes right before the final because I don't think we have that many more episodes of the season left I don't feel like we can I think we're probably gonna have like a 12 episode 12 or 13 season I 12 or 13 it's actually a 13 for sure if they split into two episodes for the final that's that's kind of what I'm thinking that's kind of where I'm at I think we have I don't mean we know we have the UFC thing next week based on the promo that was released I don't know if it's an elimination or not it's clearly in the arena but like why show us who's going into a difference in elimination that doesn't make much sense I think it might be the daily we'll find out um I'd say maybe like two more eliminations but what do we do like does the orange team just get

47:07these guys from now on or we put the guys against each other I'm interested to see what happens here but I think we are getting towards the end now clearly because we're down to like but 11 people I'll say Adrienne handled the conversation I think as best as you can a given a friend situation where it's like look I like to see my friend succeed even if they're not like even if they're against me I'm speaking as Adrienne if it was me look sorry man I'm gonna do what's best for my team but that's essentially what she says it's like I can protect you to an extent but I'm never going to do something that would be not in the best interest of my team and keeping Chris in this game but because doing what's best in an interest for a team is what's doing best for the interest to herself too because she makes a very clearly in point when she says if I don't do this and like don't put Justin in if he's available and like give Chris what he wants there's just going to mute me

48:08against me at the next challenge anyways so like it's good to see that there is some strategy being invoked in the season because of the mute meachwest and that there actually needs to be some thought into that because we are at that point in the game where it's like whoa what are you doing you're helping your friend on the other team instead of us we can't have that right speaking of which let's get into the next wonderful conversation so there's a little bit of a conversation between like bananas and Tory and someone else there essentially it's just like yeah Chris wants Justin and Tory talking about how she doesn't want to bend the will her will to to Chris and just like let him get what he wants spoiler alert she totally does but then we get to this conversation between Tory and Michelle and they are talking about how Cara doesn't have their back now remember Cara is on the opposite team as Michelle and Tory I don't care how you come into this game

49:08at some point you have to be thinking about yourself and your chances to win right now on paper this great team is kind of good when you look at like what the orange team is compared to what they are they kind of have to hope that CT is on not dead weight to pull that team down and CT has strengths that he can use to prop that team up still like but in the end like that team is the inverse of their team right they have a team with five girls and one guy the other team has a team with four guys and two girls and those are two of the strongest girls up there yeah and I love the scene because it's just like you see the different approaches where it's like one Tory is the late in this episode like she she is gone not gone enough to know that she's making good TV because I do think this was her thing up like we have to we have to make some sort of thing like I don't believe for a second that she was ever considering will or like any of them

50:11ever considering putting will and it was always going to be CT and Johnson in some way or another because they weren't going to make Johnny an option they weren't going to make well an option it was always going to be those two and we have Tory just like completely ripping into Cara and like you have Michelle who's still like even when she's mad she's still like I would like to give Cara the benefit of how she is and Tory just goes fuck it I don't care she's probably crying in the bathroom oh she's sleeping right there on the couch yeah Michelle is such a political player that she's always trying to do this because she likes being the good guy Michelle likes being the good guy that's why she's going to be a great trader when they end up with castors or trader on the traders because she likes being the nice person she likes being the first that people get along with it's how she plays survivor it's how she plays the challenge she can be cut for when she needs to be but if she can she'll try to play next with most people

51:11and it's actually good TV there are not many people who can play the way Michelle does and actually make good TV out of it yeah when we see this fight here between Tory Michelle and Cara it's fascinating to have them be like as CT ever written for you like they don't even turn they take it away from them they take it to the CT Cara connection that everyone knows is there and then it's this big conversation of like okay has CT ever done anything he was like yeah he was looking out for me in like the Izzy elimination and they jump on that to be like CTs through that elimination and I don't know how you could possibly say that when Justin like nibbled on a piece of no he didn't he didn't he didn't he was too sorry but yeah like and this is Tory fabricating a scene to force Cara to say something that Cara that has no business even bringing up

52:12because we don't even know if that's really true it's like and especially I'm like well like they're mad at Cara they're mad at Cara because Cara didn't throw for them so then they're like okay we need some sort of excuse to be able to put CT and as like and specifically Tory just trying to be like vengeful here because Cara then just like towed a line and Cara says just like I feel like Cara's just one tired and then too she's like great more people yawning at me yes yes CT would want to keep me here and look the only person I can really say that hurt was Izzy and then like see he threw the eating challenge I'm like you can't really say the person who ate the most through the eating challenge you just sound ridiculous at this point because I'm like how can you say the dude who's literally face face to snout eating every single one of those pigs snouts is the one throwing where you literally have Justin and his fake teeth just going

53:14on a bug like I think I'm gonna throw up I think I'm gonna die by doing this and I love them panning back to him being like I think I'll go to pass out as he's not even holding anything yeah this all leads into Cara then like because obviously Cara's now reading between the lines yeah which the lines are a highway at this point of what's gonna happen so she's like I need to let CT know and goes to CT but even CT doesn't like this is why like Cara's like the um I don't know it's like diary of a wimpy kid energy you know like Alex is very bad day like the little children's book where it's like anything that can't go wrong it's going wrong where it's just like everyone's just up several of our CTs like Cara always his paranoid these these people know they need me in the final yes not the best runner but they know I will give them a win

54:18like they need me for this win me mother all like we would love to have CT in elimination and then you also then have like the anger from Chris being like well Tori and Michelle my allies why aren't you protecting me and why me they'd be the person to get through of your dead weight when I want you to have that dead weight it's just like it's all this hypocrisy spider man meaming to each other of just like wanting to be angry for the sake of being angry and I was here for it for this like 20 minutes stretch oh this was a fantastic 20 minute stretch seeing all these people yelling at each other and things seeing CT go in and like I don't know why there's this entire conversation just happening in this one bedroom with the entire team there uh and seemingly most of the great team as well but it was so entertaining it was so fun people were just yelling back and forth each other gaslighting each other this is again that drama that I love so much in the challenge that makes it fun ultimately this conversation doesn't really go anywhere everyone on the

55:24orange scene blame CT for throwing the eating challenge for no reason it didn't go who to do so and it just gets to a point where there's a conversation between well Chris stands up and he says how fucked him and Michelle are because they are again before Matt sucks um and then he has Chris has a conversation with Michelle uh just saying like I want Justin and Michelle's like oh I don't know if we can do that and Chris is like fine then we'll like put lead again against you like what do you want Michelle right but it's like Michelle was even more so saying like it's ultimately not my decision to make yeah like I I like I have love for you I hope you do well but like it's this Tori's called to make so you threatening to put lead on me if Tori doesn't make the call is sort of fucked up and but it is it is fucked up but also this is the challenge and Chris is here as

56:25much as he's like gang mad at like Tori and Michelle for playing the game not for him just as they are mad that he's not playing for them it's like Chris is playing for one thing and one thing only and this is family and this money goes to his family so you're gonna have to do anything you can this dude sat on edge of extinction for 30 plus days just waiting to get back into the game to them when the money for his family like I would believe that he's willing to do anything at all costs to keep moving forward and I have the blackmail my friend for one round to get what I want that I'm going to do it yeah this is probably game it is what this I will defend for us here and say he didn't actually spend 30 days on the edge of extinction just a work like it was less than 30 days he spent he spent almost the maximum time that you could on the edge of extinction any who so ultimately Tori does nominate Justin and the team wants to go CT bananas just like

57:27praise on the fact that CT was causing a bunch of shit the day before says hey like there's much chaos like we're just gonna throw CT and that's how it's gonna go CT kind of puts his advocate of like I don't think the map really worked on this with what he was saying but he three of his five wins on the flagship have been in Thailand so he knows how these finals work kind of I guess he was really advocating for like the he was more so saying like he understands the climate he understood like he is not that he's coming in dumb and thinking that it'll be an easy run like he knows that we're gonna be in a very humid environment I know it's gonna be treacherous I can handle it and I've won because I've been able to handle it yeah and then his other thing I think he was like one challenge or off but he was like since 2020 every final that he's gone to he's gone I think it was like three since 2020 that he's been but like that's

58:29semantics at this point that's true it's like it wasn't a different body of CT yeah like even them when they were calling them dad by he still shed it all by the end and was fit CT by the end of it but I think I was sort of surprised just like how like I think he was sort of just like understanding that this is what it is so he's like I'm just going to apologize because there's no point in me fighting anymore about this but I'm just actually surprised most of them spent more time talking or giving reasoning for it when like Justin is like very much having a hissy fit going well guys it's going to be me anyway because Chris wants me and agent's gonna do what Chris wants so like if I'm the resident he's like you know what Justin you're right uh I'm just gonna say CT CT CT CT CT CT CT CT CT CT but the same up in CT and Justin we get to uh the arena yeah we get to the arena they are I guess like they they they've Adrian makes a slash the first she's like

59:33Justin it was very clear but like that was the big advantage here because there were big heavy boxes in La Rida so you're clearly going to pick Justin over CT as the person that Chris is going against they're playing chain reaction in this one they have to move six heavy boxes one at a time under a heavy chain net um and then put them into a frame they can only go into the frame one way yeah only one specific way um for a long time it was like this was going to be a complete blowout Chris was so far ahead he got his six boxes through before Justin got his four box through this net yeah like he yet I'm not gonna like trash because like it's one of those things where it's like no matter how good you are at puzzles there's always going to be one that's just like no matter what you do you can't really like see it Chris Chris like something in his exit press

1:00:34that you know what like the one thing I didn't want to see was a puzzle not because he can't do puzzles but because puzzles are like it doesn't really matter how smart you are with a puzzle puzzles come down to a lot of the time and like your trial by error did you happen together and that's what we end up seeing here really right yeah is we get to a point where he has he had like a 30 40 minute lead on Justin he said it was a big lead and like add on to it Justin having child's hands and drums he was quitting yeah or threatening the quit I actually thought I was going to quit the game like I actually thought he was gonna do that and we just be the last man. Parme wanted it yeah I want it so I'm like I understand you're being upset but this is the issue of season I love season 41 but it gave a lot of these first year play or first time players this air of arrogance that like they're bigger than what they are well it's like I'm saying so

1:01:38Justin's having this whole episode be this like crashing of like the shattering glass of like oh I'm not one of the top dogs I'm I'm wearing the run of the litter you're still you're just keep being thrown down here for any future round until we get to the final and I'm facing this dude over here who's like a nadanis former football guy he has this big lead I have no shot but like they were he was doing it right and like his team was helping him and at certain point I'm like Chris you should be listening to them as well because like this the ultimate solution is what I would have been trying first which was creating two else get them into the corners because then in theory you can get one in big jammy and slide it to the right and then you'd all you have to do is drop the last one and then you're basically done well Chris said that he got

1:02:41to that point he just like he's boss stuff like sometimes he's boss got to be there is something on his that wasn't allowing one them to go like I think like flush all the way and and sometimes that's the break that them's the breaks of the challenge and but it's just one of those things where I'm like I can't even be happy for Justin for getting this underdog win because he was the underdog there's no sense of even if he didn't have the tantrums even if he didn't like threatened to quit multiple times he was the underdog but it then he's one of those guys and it's the people I I really despise the most when I like play sports or I or I'm doing something competitive it's a front runner they they'll glow and be in your face and like belittle you when they are in the lead but that's second that they have any type of adversity they crumble and that's him to a T so I'm like and I know Chris is also competitive but like I always feel like Chris is shown that

1:03:44have like this more humble attitude towards it all so I'm like you're doing a lot this to him I'm like I get Chris was also talking a little bit of shit but I'm like you are doing a lot for someone who was just crying 10 minutes ago yeah um the interesting thing about this to me is that the editors don't even want to give Justin the underdog edit in this episode right they don't want you cheering for Justin they want you to hate him but see the only explanation I can have for his edit because like they just want you to think he is this like bracked the entire time and that he just like feels privileged to have everything go his way it it's been something like we kind of been mentioning it for the last couple of episodes it really came out this episode they do not want us to like Justin I don't know if that votes well or poorly for his chances of returning in the future I think it's good I think it's good because you need villains yeah but he's not an entertaining villain is the problem that I have he he stirs things up but he's so annoying to watch

1:04:49as a viewer that I don't know if he's good for the cast you know we shall see but we now we'll go into next week um well not so much not next week but two weeks from now there's going to be a big question of if we do not go into the final what happens on an alleged guy's day and I the only answer can be they're going to find some way to do a mixed elimination because there's no world where they're going to change the rules again to be like well orange no matter what you are sending two people down win or lose because you only have guides on your team I wouldn't be surprised speculation here based on the promo we saw for the UFC thing like we know both the captains are going into this UFC thing that doesn't feel like we also know that the mercenaries coming in yes so like the mercenary like the UFC version no it's a challenge it's a challenge I think we get

1:05:54the mercenary next because well and one of the men go I don't know like I think technically it's a girl's day I could see it being technically changed that girl mercenary yeah I guess I guess yeah I don't know I think like a mercenary makes sense at this point if you want to eliminate another guy from this orange team otherwise I don't know how you do it but I'm interested to see what happens moving forward I hope it's good I don't have high hopes I know production will probably make a terrible decision but no matter what happens I hope it's still entertaining because this episode again despite the terrible formatting of it despite losing Chris who was one of my rooted interests in this season who I mean again I'm a massive Chris Underwood fan I think he's great this was arguably the best game he has played on any of his three seasons of reality TV and he does it again so this it's

1:06:55it sucks to see him go here especially in an elimination where like it just seemed like he completely had it in the bag but that's the challenge sometimes hopefully when he says that he's retiring from he's probably done with the challenge hopefully we're really emphasizing the probably and he comes back again in the future I don't know we over yeah the challenge the challenge is better with him on it so if this was it thank you for what you have given us Chris so I would love to see you back if not I get it but that leaves us yeah Alex give me some red skulls and gold stars here okay well I'll start with the Kennas okay the Kennas sent me hers her gold star goes to Adrian for getting the captaincy and putting friendships aside for the team no I'm great spot this week yeah to be clear I'm using her exact words her red skull goes to Justin he eliminated Chris and I don't like that and he still sucks oh my god yeah I mean with

1:08:02let's go to you I get I get both of these decisions um these are the two people I slammed dunk would have like slammed for these two if I didn't know McKenna already picked them Adrian again great positioning getting the capencies here here is huge we don't know how huge exactly moving forward but it does mean she's not seeing an elimination next week and less like this usc thing is an elimination for some reason um and she also just like she's playing this game really well I I'm really impressed with Adrian I think she's in a good spot going into the final I don't know if she can win the final by here but we'll see uh giving the red skull to Justin despite winning the elimination based total sense this was a total sabotage of Justin in this episode I think he came off as a perpetulent child I think he is just like not entertaining at all I get what McGatts said when he says he sucks uh he's just winding and he's so entitled the fact that he's just talking on CT the entire time yeah I get CT is not in the best shape of his life right now

1:09:05but the dude still won five challenges and there's a reason for that and he can still probably beat you one on one in a final if you had to but that's just what it comes down to so I don't like Justin who's never made a final really like dogging on all these bets and stuff because he thinks because he got into a cushy position on this super powerhouse of an orange team now you want mine um but you're gay I'm assuming your red is Justin still no I'm sticking to my guns and I'm getting a variety here if I am giving a red skull it's gonna have to be an elite I think she is just like she cannot find a way to get in good positioning in this team at all like and sure that's bad luck I think she's like one hell of a competitor but she just talks too much and she's made it so that people don't like her and the fact that she couldn't get to the point where a blue person was in charge of this team and that the other two people on blue would rather see

1:10:11gray leading it and not the person that she wanted from gray being the captain she's just in such a bad position politically in this game I can't see how if there's a woman's elimination next week she's not in it yeah what about your star okay gold star this is a tough one there's less options this episode there are less options this episode um I think like by default and I think it's a bananas here because he I got yeah I got because bananas despite the fact this is one of the things that bananas is so well in the challenge you can cause a lot of shit and a lot of drama but he also knows when to stake out of it he can poke him prod he can get a couple things there he does that again with telling Kara hey you should just throw this right they're like even like scanning for Kara to be captain and everything he is doing these things to so distrust amongst that gray team and

1:11:17make it so that they are agitated more he just knows how to position himself so well in this house and he continues to do it again with people he was in conflict with but last time they were on a season together yeah yeah I'll start with my skull because that's easier for me because there's so many options but I'm getting my rights gold to Tori that's a good one but I was considering as well like both yours and the kind of it's made absolute sense for me but I'm getting the Tori because well yes gold star for giving us drama and fun TV which is something we don't get a lot from her in this version of Tori but the issue is when you create this baseline of who you are in these games and then you show this it's like you're showing so many cards for no reason other than just that you decide that you just didn't give an F this for this night and I think it can lead to more

1:12:17issues amongst the team in theory it's all in theory we'll see how CT processes it's all of this but I think like the big thing going as Tori here this is vacation alliance Tori coming out again that's what a public to me it sort of is but it's like it's sort of a mix of vacation alliance and also just the old school way up yeah that's always just being like we're supposed to protect each other type of thing even though I'm like your servant in stage where that doesn't really apply because that always was just at the beginning of seasons but because of this vacation alliance like thing they process it differently because the vacation alliance is like no matter what we protect each other yeah so that's how you interpret it in the future even when it's not that the problem is we just haven't had this team format like this right like we haven't had a very long time and it makes it so that it makes it very difficult here and I think what it really comes out I think

1:13:22what it comes down to is what Chris said in his exit interview about Tori she's a competitor derogatory see I disagree with that I think that's him being a hater because he also acknowledges that he was doing the same exact thing with her so but I would if it was him but derogatory because it was on who did it against him that's all I'm saying but let me do my gold star because we are running a little bit wrong here gold star I'm gonna give it to let me so yes and no like she does help towards the end she switches up with Cassie but that's like a minor thing my more thing it's like you're reading in between the lines of how is Ledy perceived and Ledy is perceived as a threat what do you see she is the person on this great team I think we'll never touch the sand she is someone who they are looking at to be like we can instill fear in the other team by saying

1:14:22if you don't do what we want we'll send our killer down there yeah and like when you have that approach like we haven't had someone like that amongst the girls since Laurel like among like her early seasons essentially where like she just comes in and people are already like I don't want to have any business with this like please do not put me in the sand with this person and they already have that when you really haven't had the do much and then you are like aligned pseudoly with bananas so like you have like some other like business there I'm gonna give her props here even though the episode didn't not well deserved I think she just has a fantastic position here I think and you and McKenna took my first two picks so that's what happens when I go last yeah that's why we have to rotate every once in a while but that's it for our episode this week we're getting into the

1:15:23nitty-gritty of the challenge here there can't be more than two two episodes before the finale or the final at this point so I'm really excited to see what happens elsewhere on the specialist wow guys survivors are in last night it started with a bang too what a fantastic premiere that was Phil really gushed about it with Will on the recap last night so if you haven't checked that out yeah make sure you do that later today Phil and Will will be recapping episodes three and four if the traders knew blood that'll be at nine o'clock Pacific so good day for you Easterners I'm sorry blame them tomorrow you'll have myself McKenna is away this week so as you can tell by should heard not being on the challenge podcast with us so I have a guest coming in to do the rewind with me tomorrow that'll be a lot of fun I'm really looking forward to talking about this premiere and just how it relates to some things like how the open era relates to survived past Phil and Blake will be coming at you with digging deeper tomorrow as well and Sunday Phil has

1:16:32Kelly Wentworth and the winner of survivor 50 Aubrey Brockville on for the Power Ranking's episode this week that is going to be fantastic that's at five p.m. Eastern 2 p.m. Pacific make sure you tune into that one that is going to be an absolutely stellar podcast and now the survivors in full swing we have so much else going on tag with we'll be back with a match at the season Phil will have his predictions or his predictions with the prop bet game on Tuesday every week so there's so much content there and if you still can't get enough become a patron patron.com backslash specialist we have so much content going on there the companion showed a little rewind every season matters five or two days if you want to listen to about movies and stuff like that tag talks there's so many things so much things out there we are producing content on the patreon every single day during the survivor season so there's no better time to do that you can also get in on the survivor fantasy game and the power rankings if you become a

1:17:35cop to your patron so do that become a patron and enjoy all the perks of doing so make sure you like the video subscribe to the channel and we'll see you next week when we talk about episode kind of the challenge cut for everyone hard rock casino tayo where everybody equals rewards time save her bold flavors at deep cut steak and seafood discover your love for pan asian at you you or grab a classic at hard rock cafe sign up for unity by hard rock today most be 21 years of age or older problem gambling car 1800 gambler at qvc shopping is more than just checking out it's discovering something new every day start with today's special value then explore exciting finds across the brands and categories you love from beauty and fashion to home culinary and outdoor living shop now at qvc.com