The difference between Japanese and Western NPOs

0:00There's certainly a different reception, a Japanese of an MPO in the foreigners, when government money flows into something, governments DNA does as well. We shouldn't be telling anybody what to do. The project has to be discerned locally, and the solution, there's two places where community meets and remote areas. I have no idea how easy it is to give away a million dollars. I do know how difficult it is to spend it wisely. Thanks for joining us on an packing Japan. I've probably produced a VRT-MATZEN studio with a longstanding support of Zen Group. To keep this weekly story coming, please consider subscribing. It's the best way to support the show and really makes a difference. And now, let's get into it. Welcome to an packing Japan. I'm Toby and today have the pleasure to welcome Lowell. Thank you so much for coming. Wonderful to be here. You came a long way because you live on your sailboat down in Amami, Oshima in Niaokinawa,

1:03where you have been living full-time on that boat for a while. You've been sailing around Japan and writing books about that and more. So you've got plenty of interesting stories to get into, but those stories start quite a while before that, because you haven't gotten into sailing until you're 60s, I think. At least that's when you really picked up your current boat. And so I'm very curious about how this all started, and perhaps we can start with what brought you to Japan in the first place? Well, the answer to that is simple. My wife brought me to Japan. She was born and raised here. Her father was a, one of the founders of Nagoya International School. She grew up in that school. And then they moved back to Canada and we married. And I kind of liked the way she turned out as what psychologists call third culture kids, educators call it as well. And so when we got married, the agreement was if she moved with me to England, where I wanted to live for a time, one day I would come with her to Japan. And 29 years ago,

2:04she brought me to Japan and I haven't regretted it. You came for your wife because she grew up here. How did you experience coming to Japan? Because I imagine up until that point of putting a meeting in her maybe Japan wasn't particularly on your radar or country you considered you were thinking about England, which is another island, but was a very different culture. So how did you experience it coming back? Well, I'd never been. Although we did make a record-roider trip a year before we actually moved. But it was a big shock. And I think what I missed most of all from moving from England was conversation. And I still struggle with conversation because 29 years on my Japanese is still rather rudimentary. It's embarrassing to say, despite a lot of trying. And being on my own most of the time in remote places. But I think it's a Canadian living in the UK prepared me somewhat for Japanese culture. Both are island nations, dense populations.

3:08And both have what I call a sumimasen culture. Now, the UK not as much, but the UK is more polite than Canada. So you say, terribly sorry, even if it's not your fault. You say sumimasen. So there is that awareness beyond just you and your individual little sphere. Britain is a little bit closer to Japan than Canada. So I think living in the UK helped prepare me for it. But it was a great adventure when I came. And I recall the first morning I've been moved into our house in Oariyashi, in Aichi again. And the first four A.I. made was walking to the top of the hill, 300 meters, and just looking out over the horizon. In fact, a memory comes back remembering that moment because when I was in England, one of the NGOs I was involved with was a NGO that tried to keep a school open in,

4:10Mostar in Bosnia. And I was there several times during the war. And it kind of looked like the Nareta Valley. But when I looked out over the rice paddies in Japan, of course, remember the contrast that if this was Bosnia, there would have been gunfire or you'd be ducking for cover, et cetera. And then shortly after that, I decided to buy a bicycle rather than a car. And that started me cycling, which eventually ended up me cycling the length of Japan more than once. Also did it with my dog quite a few years later. And so I love Japan. We raised our children here. And it's my home. You came to a completely different country. You said it was quite a shock at first, walking over the hill and then experiencing this. Did you know what you would be doing here? You mentioned your wife was the daughter of one of the people that founded the Nagoya International School.

5:11Did you then end up working there? What did you take a completely different path for yourself in Japan? Her father was a missionary in Japan. And when I say he was one of the founders, and this links to my story, there were three different international schools in Nagoya post-war. There was the military school, American military. There was Lockheed. And there was the mission school. Did the plane company lock you? Yes, that's right. That's a big aerospace Mitsubishi airport in the streets. All the big aircraft makers are there, even to this day. So my father-in-law was chair of the mission school and they merged together. And that's where she grew up. But I started off at Alt Life as an ordained minister and working in, but that led me into the non-profit sector. I quickly realized that parish work was not for me, partly because as a young man in those early 20s,

6:13I didn't have much patience with people to be a pastor. And secondly, my faith has become more private matter than a public matter when you're in the ministry. It's a very public thing. But initially we came through my wife's connections, she has a missionary to Japan, but on what really shocked me and was through the church that her father planted back in the early 60s. And what really shook me is on my passport, it didn't stamp, missionary, it stamped professional religionist. Mesh on religionist, that's an interesting term. Yes, which is an awful term. And that was, I was already on a journey, my own faith journey that led me to be less concerned about the hereafter, which I live on the outside of belief

7:17about very concerned with the here and now. And so I was very much into the social justice part of charity work, et cetera. And so soon after arriving in Japan, I founded a NGO called Hope International Development Agency, which is a sustainable development agency. And that's where I have spent most of my last 29 years until six years ago when I bought my boat and stepped under her. What exactly is a framework for nonprofits in Japan? I know that in the US and Europe, it's relatively common. We see a lot in NPOs NGOs. I think they're NPOs in Japan. What exactly is a framework for you to establish one? How does it operate? Is it something that is maybe little lesser known here? Or can you tell me a little bit about how you do it? Sure, it's very different. Although it has evolved in the sector, has strengthened since I first arrived.

8:18The words like volunteer donation charity are really words that have entered the Japanese lexicon the katakana versions since the earthquake in Kobe. Because that disaster happened so close to this urban area we are now in that people became volunteers. They walked from here in Homochi to Kobe. And so before that, as I understand it, and as I've researched the nonprofit sector, nonprofits were very, people were suspicious of them. They were politicians slush funds. Basically, since then, there's been various iterations of laws that have strengthened the rules, the guide NPOs. And they're much more credible today. And then within the NPO sector, you have NGOs,

9:19which is more descriptive term than a legal term, non-governmental organization. And in Japan, non-governmental organizations are seeing largely as NPOs that work overseas in development work. So our work with Hope International is access to clean water with a primary focus on Cambodia but also Ethiopian the Philippines. So we raise money here. And we help, we assist the neglected poor to become self-reliant in Cambodia. And my involvement with Hope, which has started as a Canadian organization, really went back to 1978 when I went to Cambodia for them and realized I really cut out to be a dogma-tist and preach things I'm not sure we're entirely true to helping people because of the teachings I've been brought up on.

10:20So in answer to your question, it's a much stronger sector now. And but even within the NPO sphere, there's different levels. And the NGO that I started with others became a Ninh Tay NPO, which means certified. If you're an ordinary MPO using basic language, it means the revenue you receive is not taxable. Okay. But the next step up is to become a certified NPO Ninh Tay, which means you can also give a tax receipt for a gift that is given, which is the common set of affairs in America and Canada and in different versions in Europe as well. So you established Hope International and sorry I was smiling so much when you mentioned Cambodia because I spent one year volunteering Cambodia just before moving to Japan. And when you mentioned, I remembered seeing a lot of these Japanese aid sites. So maybe one of them was actually

11:20from Hope International as well. Where were you? I was in Kampong Cham, along the May Kong River in a small village there. We didn't have any direct links to like water, but I've seen water NPOs, but I've seen other works there. So when you established this in Japan, how does it work after, do you have to kind of find business sponsors to kind of donate to establish things overseas? What is the procedure to do this from Japan? You mentioned that people are a bit wary of these don't actually imagine. It's a kind of mountain to climb, right? To start this. It is a mountain to climb. And there are certainly a different perception by Japanese of an MPO and the foreigners. And many Japanese MPOs rely a lot on brands, and particularly government funding, which I understand, but we always had a disposition against that because my observation in the field as well

12:23is when government money flows into something, a government's DNA does as well, which I don't mean that in a political sense, but in a bureaucratic sense. So, and we've received government funding. Our village water projects in Ethiopia, a lot of a mofa money from the Japanese government. But when we do a mofa funded project, it will cost maybe 40% more because the compliance requirements are much more stringent, and also requires that the project is technically under Japanese management. Whereas our value system is, we shouldn't be telling anybody what to do. To make a project sustainable, the project has to be discerned locally and the solution realized locally as well. You're coming with pockets of money, you've seen this working in Cambodia. There's so many Santa Claus MPOs.

13:25And of course, people take the money, but year later the school is empty or the weld isn't work, whatever else, the local ownership is critical. And that's where there's always a, you know, there's a jacks of decision between what the Japanese government requires of us and how we work on the ground. Well, we found ways to do it that were transparent and honest, et cetera. But in the hopes case, we were largely privately funded, both individual and corporates. And when I was CEO of Hope, and I no longer CEO of Hope, still heavily involved, I used to attend meetings with heads of other large global NGOs in Tokyo, I won't name them. And I remember when I were all sitting around and the head of one, they were talking about how they're very successful at corporate sponsorship and the other one very successful at individual memberships and they got the demographics down. And Hope, which was actually a lot smaller, they perceived us as successful at gallows.

14:27And in fact, I found that to be a very effective way, although a bit of an anomaly for some, in that here we're having a nice fancy meal, Osaka was at the Rich Carlton, more recently at the Conrad. And here we are having a fancy dinner, but we're raising money for the neglected poor. But some people just like fancy dinners. So we were, we have dinners in Osaka, Yala, I'm in Nagoya and Tokyo. And this year's our 25th anniversary. Congratulations. 25 years is quite a long time for an IPO to kind of make it through, because I guess it's kind of search for funding in a way never really ends. You know, it never ends, yes. And then in 2011, with a disaster that hit us here within hours afterwards, I was receiving hundreds of emails. You know, what are you gonna do into Hoku?

15:29What is Hoku gonna do? And at first I said, I, we can't do anything, because it's outside our mandate. And if we divert money from Cambodia, there's families who've been screened and on the waiting list to join while user groups that won't get their wells. And we just create more victims. So I was saying red cross, red cross, red cross. But then one of our, one of our, I say corporate donors, but it was a family-owned business, essentially. In fact, I'll name them, started by my friend Robert Rochin, Harry Hill, shopped Japan, large electronic retailer. Harry phoned me up and he was CEO at the time, Robert Chairman. And Harry said, you can't say this is outside your mandate. Because what has happened to Hoku and our response to it is outside all of our mandates, including companies. So Hoku, you need to do something. You need to respond within your protocols and values.

16:33And he, and he didn't give me a chance to reply. And he said, I've just come from a board meeting. And we just decided because we trust Hoku on Monday morning. So this was Saturday that day after the earthquake and tsunami, he said, we're going to deposit a million dollars yen equivalent into your account. So you can make a response and get up there as soon as possible, initially with aid, but then help in the economic recovery, which is more our very specialty. And he said, in addition to that, the three principles of the company were each going to give an amount of money to holding another half a million dollars into the account. And he said, we're challenging all of our suppliers to give 1% of whatever we spent last year. So it came out to about two and a half million dollars. But, and this is the enlightened donors they were. They said, and if you see any shortfall

17:36because of the crisis here on the work you're doing in Cambodia, Ethiopia, and the Philippines, you can use our money to make up the difference. So it was a marvelous thing to get up to Tohoku without worrying about fundraising and then respond. And we helped 20 communities recover. 70 startups and restarts. I'm quite curious about how this works. Because if you're kind of setting up a project in Cambodia and Ethiopia and such, it's a long-term project, right? You need to find the local partners. As you said, it was important for you that the product is locally owned and locally run. You need to find a partner. You need to build the trust. You need to build whatever infrastructure they will need to operate. But in a case of Tohoku, the earthquake happens on day one. A few days later, you get suddenly like 2.5 million dollars. But you've got nothing in place, right? You don't have like, let's say, a tactical response team that is like, okay, we're gonna be using this. You probably have a fan full of volunteers that are with you.

18:37But what do you do? How do you use the money? How do you kind of structure such an emergency response in a way that the money will be effectively helping the people that need it? Really good question. And a good question because into Tohoku, Tohoku, where I saw firsthand how there was a lot of dumb money that was being thrown around. And a year after we first started into Tohoku, Robert and I met each other in the band. And I thanked him. I said, Robert, thank you for entrusting us. And we were still one year into a three year program to help with the restarts. So we hadn't spent all the money. And he said, oh, we did the easy part. We just gave you the money. You have the hard part to spend it wisely. And I kind of chuckled and laughed and walking away. And then I called him back. He said, Robert, actually, I have no idea how easy it is

19:40to give away a million dollars. Be a nice feeling to be able to do that. But I do know how difficult it is to spend it wisely. So relevant to your point, the key is relationships. And because this is our community, this is our home, we follow relationship trails, first of all. I had it, and we're used to helping our partners in the field respond to disasters, although we're a development organization, when there's flooding or an earthquake or war, we have our response mechanisms. We have a point of reference. So I had a team of people start voting up all the city halls, all the prefectures, to assess the situation for ourselves and not rely on the media. I tend to brief things with the Red Cross in Tokyo for the first few days just to get a sense. But then an association of private helicopter owners

20:45that we had relationships with. Harry and I actually flew up the spinach bin to see for ourselves. And that's where we identified the initial communities we would work with, seen SOS written in. In the sand and yeah. And you know, I have no criticism, of course, no hostile criticism of any of the other government agencies that responded. The self-defense forces were delivering. They're doing what they could, but what we discovered was it wasn't always proportion to the problem. For example, and this is only a fictional example, but it illustrates the numbers. If they had 300 Onigiri to deliver, and in this place there were 350 people, they wouldn't deliver because they'd have to find a place that matched.

21:45And sometimes they would show up a month later with diapers for old people. So it wasn't proportion. What I did observe is that the city governments were much more effective than the prefectural governments. Things were getting piled up and clogged, the system clogged up, whereas there were mayors who were acting like, you know, as a Canadian, I say, like cowboys, the wild, wild west, they said, I want to help my people, I want to help them now. Yes, come, yes, come, yes, come. So initially it was through relationships. And then through other NPO's, because all the other NGOs were like us. So we started to share information, make sure we didn't duplicate. Or if they offered specialty services, we then brought them into our relationships. One thing we did for the long term is we had a mobile hope cafe. My doctor, in fact, donated his 1957 Volkswagen van,

22:51and we made it into a cafe. And one of our board members, Professor Yoshi Masuda, who loved making coffee and loved gramophones, he went up there and actually McKenzie did a film about him. We talked about McKenzie. He was sent a link for that one of those first videos. He did called Yoshi's Blend. What that cafe did, it allowed us to build relationships. Initially we just helped deliver water. We had relationships with Costco, Coca-Cola, and Walter Filters companies. It in tons in every week, particularly the home refugees, people in the evacuation centers had plenty, but people in their homes weren't deemed qualified to be in the evacuation center. But the hope cafe allowed us to mingle because what we discovered into Hoku is that there's two places where community meets

23:55in remote areas. Coffee shops and hair salons. Oh, interesting. And we actually funded the restart of some coffee shops and hair salons, but initially we had a mobile hope cafe, which meant that fishermen could come and talk, they could solve their problems there. And it was actually in one particular location where I got to know an HK TV producer who was tracking the progress of one particular remote village that we were involved in. And he was at the Hope Cafe having a cup of coffee and he was saying, these guys are getting so fed up with all these people like you coming in and NGOs. And I mean, you're saying that kindly to me because he said, even you, because no one saying they're gonna help, they're gonna help, but all they're doing is delivering water and food, they're not really helping. And I said, well, that's really interesting because we're just here to listen. That's our approach we want to have them identify what they want.

24:59And they said, well, they know what they want, they've already decided they've had a meeting instead of having 20 plus privately owned fishing boats by various families, they want to buy a big boat and form a fishing co-op. And they found a boat up in Hokkaido, but they don't, they need funds to get up there and inspect it. That's exactly, so we're here to help. So we called them together, we had a meeting. They went up, they bought the boat, they sailed back. I've been on that boat since, they cost about $7 million, which we funded. And we gave as a gift to the community. Two years later, they paid that $7 million back. With Odessa. With Odessa. I can go to some other people that I need. So the answer to your question is, you follow the relationship rails. I think this is a very beautiful way of doing it that actually then provides the help that people need and want rather than kind of

25:59a ready made solution and outside of might want to impose on them. Yes. This was possible because the money donated for this assistance was kind of like hands off. Just take the money, we trust you, do your thing. When you're collecting money for the overseas projects, you mentioned that government money often comes with government bureaucracy. What about private money or private money in a sense of corporate money? Do they often come with specific expectations and requirements of maybe the corporation wanting to steer a project a certain way? Or does it also usually then is an investment into hope, international and trusting that you will do the right thing with the funds you get? Yeah, there's compliance, of course, that has to be taken into account. I was, somebody from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs doing an internal publication came to our office in Nagoya, years ago, to interview me about compliance

27:02and about accountability. And it was being translated because my Japanese is so poor, but in English, I reported back and I said back, essentially I see that we're accountable in three directions. First, there is the fiduciary responsibility. We have a constitution, we have a board, they must abide by the constitution, and in turn, we're accountable to the regulatory bodies over us, both tax and the MPO body. So that's the fiduciary. There's accountability there. We must do what we said we would do within the guidelines and accounting, auditing that the law requires us. And most people think that's who your real boss is. But I said our second boss is the donor, is understanding and honoring intent. Now, this is where marketing comes into play. You have to be careful how you word things and what you can promise, what you can't promise.

28:05But ultimately, you have to honor the intent of the donor. We have turned down money that has come with strings attached, that were intolerable, and intolerable in the sense because it then violates the third point of reference, who is the real boss, and that's the poor. And using the term the poor can sound a bit patronizing. I don't mean to do it, but it's the easiest, most extinct way to describe the people who are trapped in poverty, who need a hand up so they can stand on their own two feet. And so ultimately, I mean, it's such a deeply embedded value in us, and even now as I speak, I'm not involved in the day to day anymore, but I think of the many families who are now out of poverty and I still get the tingle thinking it's the most satisfying part of my life. It's not most exciting, but it's the most satisfying.

29:09Because ultimately, and this is where organizations like Shope Japan and their leaders, Harry and Robert and others who joined, hope as supporters, they may be suspicious at first, or skeptical I should say, but usually donors who join us, and I didn't expect coming here to promote the organization, I'm not intending to do that, but trust is there, and they've seen the outcomes. That the money that comes in really does make a difference. And that's only possible because we've been doing this for now 25 years, and it's given hope, international time to see some projects through to show some results. 25 years in a making, you started this shortly after you moved to Japan, a country that you had only been to once before that you moved to for your wife, and you started this at the time where you mentioned something earlier that you bought yourself a bicycle here, rather than a car. And you used that bicycle not only to go to the nearest station

30:12and whatnot, but you actually crossed entire country to follow the blossoming of the cherry trees. Can you tell a little bit about how this idea came to be and how you got started with this journey? Well, I'm smiling because it was a wonderful trip. And at first the bicycle was just meant to be local. And then I started doing more long distance. And in the UK I was overworked hardly at home, unfit, and moving to Japan, following my wife, gave me the opportunity to recalibrate. And at that time I was doing some postgraduate studies and I started writing books already as well. So, and although I had professional religiousness in my passport, I really professionally. What an awful god awful term. And but then I was, because of my dissertation

31:13looking at sociological changes among Japanese young people, kind of comparing it to the West, I realized that it's during the Ohanemi season that it's just people are so willing to talk in the outer doors. And I wouldn't it be great to travel the length of Japan following the sacrizense and the cherry blossom front, which the, which the weather people make it look like a line that kind of goes up the archipelago, but from Kagoshima and then all the way to Hokado. And I thought, wouldn't it be great to follow that line? And I thought bicycle would be the best speed as I did my research. So I wrote my publisher in Oxford, England. I got this idea to follow the cherry blossom front of my bicycle and write kind of a book in the deep travel genre, a reflective book. And they gave me a contract. So I had a bicycle made for me.

32:13And I actually started here on Asaka. I took the ferry to Kagoshima. And then I wanted by first night to be at Sakurajima. So I rode from the ferry terminal to Sakurajima. And that was kind of the notional start and then made my way up Japan and spent six weeks trying to find the cherry blossom. Because I realized it's not a line at all. It's more like popcorn. Depends on the microclimates, et cetera. And it wasn't the really I got to Almori again. That I was, well, Toriyama onwards, I was enjoying Ohanami parties. But the big ones were in Iwate and Almori. It was wonderful. Six weeks sounds like a short time to cross such a long country on a bicycle. But then I imagine if you do like 50 to 100 kilometers per day, you can't make good progress. You started this for sociological reasons.

33:15You wanted to kind of explore how people celebrate this. What did you notice? What did you learn by going from region to region and meeting all these people along the way that were celebrating the cherry blossom? Well, the book is subtitled. It's called Chasing the Cherry Blossom and the publisher wrote the subtitle, A Spiritual Journey Through Japan. So I was actually exploring changing spiritualities as well, which wasn't the initial intent at the beginning. But when I arrived in Kyushu, I didn't really know much about Kyushu. I knew about Zavir, the Jesuits arriving, whenever 1540, whatever it was. But they're so dominant. Particularly in remote Kyushu. So Christianity became my focus in exploring its roots and the invisible church, the hidden Christians in Kyushu and all that, martyrs Hill and Nagasaki. Then I wrote the Shikoku

34:16and then of course it was the 88 temples, but I was going the other way around. So again, I didn't expect it. It was all serendipitous, but I would meet pilgrims. And it just so happened, I was going counterclockwise, but I had the wind to my back and these poor white clad pilgrims were leaning forward into the wind, but every night I'd meet up with different ones. And so my part of the book about Shikoku is all about Buddhism and how it's enriched. But then when I got to Honshu and to Osaka, there I encountered new religions. And so then, but the time I got to Tohoku where I began to suffer extreme tendinitis in both knees. Almost came so much. Everything. And then got to Hokato. It just was all about me in the last for the book is introspective. But back then, with young people as my focus,

35:18and this kind of pertains, this started the flow of thought right up to my current project, which is about aging and longevity in Japan. The rule of family and the view of fathers in Japan, it's what I was doing research. I heard the term so daigo me what many daughters in the Nadi's referred to their fathers as, and not at home working remotely, come back once a month, sitting the time I'm not saying, be do, you know, a man for food. And that was illuminating to me. And has fascinated me ever since, initially negatively, but my current project, which isn't published yet, but it's currently with an agent who's negotiating as we speak.

36:20And the name he's given the book is longevity and the art of community, lessons from Japan. Because what I have found is I traveled through and spent immersive time in many of the four, well, all 47 pre-factures I've been in, and many I've spent extended times in, that Japan does have an art of cultivating communal relationships. And in the West, which is nuclear family focus, particularly in America, which is a post-war invention talk about the family unit, nuclear family is based on a linear view of life, always looking forward to the next generation. You want the next generation to be better than your generation. And you glance backwards with appreciation and with respect, but with a degree of dismissiveness.

37:22And in the general view, according to my gerontology friends, academics, in the West, particularly in North America, seniors are perceived as having increasing irrelevance. So how do we make our grandparents' lives comfortable, aim-free, honor them, but we're not looking their direction. Whereas in Asia, it's circular. La Fkaadio Hurren was one to write about this over 100 years ago. And it's that circular view of family, of life and community that where it works in Japan, it aids people living a long and happy, healthy life. Where it's breaking down and there's cultural erosion, then you have lonely death syndrome. So what started in the 90s writing that, well, the year 2000 was when I wrote my bike, my research before that,

38:23gave me an interest in communal life in Japan, and what we can learn from it, but what can be lost? The project that you're working on now that was inspired by the observations of this long bicycle trip across the country, which kind of shows a little bit of a spirit for adventure too, that you then rekindled with when you kind of got onto your boat, something you've done much later. I think towards the time that you maybe started being less involved with hope, can you tell a little bit about how you got into the sailing part of your life and how that kind of thing also all connects? I'm 71 now, and on my 64th birthday, which was in March 2019, I sent out invitations at a birthday party in Nagoya and a birthday party in Tokyo, and I said in the invitation in January, come to my birthday party, I'm gonna make three announcements.

39:25And even my sons were excited, what are you gonna announce? And of course, I told my family and the bands, and the three announcements were number one, it was time for me to pass the reins of hope over to somebody else who was much better at Japanese language than me, younger, et cetera. And so the board and I began looking for a successor. And number two, I wanted to return to writing and speaking as a kind of a full time. And number three, I wanted to buy a boat, learn how to sailor and sail solo across the Pacific before I was 70. And of course, the third one caused a gasp, and even me gasping as well, but it was a lifelong dream. And I just, if I can, if I, my children are growing up now, and I have my wife's support, and I had some saving experience in my teens and 20s,

40:29but small boats, I corded my wife on a boat in Vancouver, but never owned a boat and never sailed a big boat. And it turns out that we found a successor within six months, so it happened a year earlier than I thought, so I was released. I found a boat within three months. And then found out, as we entered the 2020, it was no time to start a new business, which was called Navigate 22. And so I, I just start living on the boat full time in Tokyo, and with this notion of sailing across Pacific to see my mom before I was 70. At 64 having that idea for many scenes like, oh, wow, that's like, it's possible to get into something new and you said you had no prior experience with sailing. Where do you even start? Where do you begin?

41:30You have this dream of you want to own a sailboat, but you need to learn how to sail. You need to get the boat. You need to maybe get the license as well. How did you then kind of get this all sorted out? I, I had to get all that. It had been a dream to own a boat and live on a boat all my life. It, you know, it was, it was a fantasy. And when I moved to Japan, I thought, and that's it, that will never happen. It's too expensive. Language makes things too arcane. I, but then I discovered the Tokyo Sail and Power Squadron, which is an English sailing and motorboat club. And they offer the course to get your captain's license in English. They've also arranged with the government authority to write the exam in English. Oh, wow. Because I began cruising, truing on some of their boats and seeing how much boats cost and how much marina fees were priced at, I thought, maybe this is an outer reach after all.

42:31So my first step was I got my class two license, which allowed me to go up to five miles offshore. Eventually got my class one EQ, which allows you to go beyond five miles. I failed that twice, passed on the third time. And then I began, you know, on other people's boats and began shopping for a boat myself and shortlisted one in Fukuoka, one in the Philippines, one in Puket and one in Tokyo and chose the one in Tokyo, mostly because there was a two-year waiting list in the marina. Okay. I had a small apartment in Tokyo where I spent part of my time. So I kind of convinced my wife that the numbers wise, it was cheaper for me to live on the boat. But in Tokyo, then have the small apartment and again, she's always been supportive of all of this. And then I just started to practice sailing and at first I had to learn how to dock the boat.

43:33It's 40 feet long. And so I had someone spend a week with me every day and all kinds of weather bringing the boat in and out just to slip because there's lots of other boats. And I still remember the first day when nobody was there and I thought I tried by myself. And I got my pilot's license lessons when I was a teenager and it was the same feeling as when I had soloed on an airplane. I just, whoa, I did that. And I'd written a book called Never Too Late. So I was practicing when I preached. And that book happened to go into four languages and when I started my small YouTube channel, still a small YouTube channel, some of the followers started to call themselves on Never Too Late and most of my followers are people like me from that community. Yeah, from, yeah. And not just in Japan, but around the world.

44:33And I found, although I eventually failed to cross the Pacific solo, part of because of the boat certification, which I could have resolved, but also because of a health issue for me that developed. I, the last seven years have been just wonderful. I've been to 80 ports, mostly in Naka. I've learned so much, I've been enriched. I've met people who have become heroes of mine who've inspired me along the way. I've had storm, this nearly sunk. And it's just no regrets. I wanna get into all those stories because I think there's a lot to hear there. If we started at the beginning, you mentioned you first need that license, right? There's two levels, two and then level one. Yes. One to stay within a short distance, one to go beyond. Are these based on international standards? Are they specific to Japan? No, they're specific to Japan. And based on it being a motorboat.

45:34So any boat with engine more than two horsepower, you need a captain's license. And it's good up to 20 tons. Okay. So it's pleasure boats, but pleasure motorboats. And if you have a Japanese flagged vessel, which Wahine is my boat, then you have to comply to Japanese regulations. But incoming cruisers, that's what we call people who live on their boats full time, foreigners who are coming into Japan, whose numbers are increasing each year, because their boats are not Japanese flagged, they don't need any of this. They have no requirements. They have other requirements of entry procedures. They have to get a closed port pass, which means they can go into any harbor in Japan. So they've got other obstacles. These licenses, are they purely theoretical? Do you get some, you need to kind of like a car drive test, you need to kind of show some practice

46:36that you can actually pilot the boat as well. Mostly theoretical, but there's a water test as well. On one of their boats, my sense is, though they're very forgiving on the boat, the water test. You have to do figure eights and go through a course, go on reverse, man overboard drill. He'll give you one or two knots to tie out of the seven or eight knots that you need for sailing. But they're very forgiving because they, I think they know that boats are, every boat behaves differently. Even boats the same size and same design and behave differently. And the guy that took his water test with me on the same boat took two of us out at the same time. He did mine after me and went, the last bit of the test is you have to come in and dock and tie up, well, he teabound the dock. You're supposed to come in on an angle

47:37and then ring your stern in and then you tie up. He just came straight and he still passed. So that's good to know, but on the theoretical test, there's 56 questions on class two and a further 16 on class one. And that's everything from diesel engines to whether to marine law. It's all multiple choice. And so when you have that theoretically, you can then pilot your boat. You decided to buy your boat in Japan, even though you were considering others as well. Your boat, I think, was from 1988. Yes. It's French. It's a French boat. I'm not too familiar with boatings. So if you buy a car from 1988 today, it will be considered. That's a pretty old car. There's probably a lot of maintenance. Might be is it the same with boats or is that still kind of like something totally normal and to kind of consider a boat

48:39that is already a kind of a few decades old? It's not the same as a car. I've learned this along the way, of course. Boats from the 70s and 80s are strong boats, particularly in certain brands. And the Gypsy Company now bought by Dufour, a credible boat company, they built strong boats. And I was advised once, don't buy a new boat. Oh, interesting. They said if you're going to buy a relatively new boat, buy a boat about five years old. Because it's been in the water long enough to know where all the problems are. But all the rigging and that, you still got another five years before you have to replace everything. But an old boat, and mine isn't super old. There's people, I know friends who have got boats older, but it's marinated for decades.

49:41And what remains of value is the hall. Okay, it's like the land that a building is on. So if you invest in the deck of the boats, you'll never get that money back. Your value is in the hall. And that remains constant. You said jokingly to your wife at the time that it would be cheaper for you to live on the boat than continue renting that apartment. And what other regulations for living on a boat in Japan? Are you allowed to use that as an address on the dockings? Or you're not allowed to live on a boat? Your loud depends on the Marina rules. You can stay on board. Okay, so I was a stay on board, or but my home address, you can't have a marine address. In America, you can, probably in Europe as well. You can have addresses in ports and harbors, but no legally, you have to have a land address. And you just mentioned some marinas as well.

50:41Don't allow you to stay overnight on the boat. Or I'm not, most of my time is in fishing harbors or in Umino Eki's sea stations. I've not been to a Marina yet that didn't allow me to stay on board. One Marina, they locked the gates at 11 o'clock. So you can't get out. Oh, okay. But they know that I'm there. They need to know that you're there. So you start, you get the license, you get the boat. You start practicing the docking with your new ship. Where did you take your first trip was it? My first trip, I went to, I went to Misaki down towards, you know, down the shipping channels of Tokyo Port, down to Tokyo One. And that was Golden Week of 2020. And I took, I didn't go solo. I took my son and my Ryan and my older son, Ryan, and two experienced sailors clawed in Rick.

51:45And I wanted them to be with me to guide me through the, down the shipping lanes. And we went down to Misaki. We weren't allowed to dock because of COVID. The rules were very strict. We did an overnighter, then we went back. And so that was my first overnighter but then, and then I did lots of 10 day trips since times I'd be on my own, times others with me. But then in March 2021, March 4th, I left Tokyo for the last time and set out to sail to Okinawa. That's kind of a test run to see if I was ready to go to Canada. And so that was the first time leaving Tokyo Bay by myself. And I never made it to Okinawa. I made it to me, I can't instead.

52:46That's still relatively far off from Okinawa but close to Nagoya where your home is. It was, and I stayed there a handful of weeks for my birthday and then just decided, I wasn't ready to sail across specific yet. The board and I had too much to learn about each other. And so that's when I decided, I will just keep slowly cruising around Japan, learning about sailing and Japan. What was the challenge? What prevented you from going all the way to Okinawa on that journey? The lack of an autopilot. So I had a, I had a, what they call a wind vein. The brand name is called Hydrobane, which can be self-steering if there's breeze. But my autopilot run by the engine or electricity I should say wasn't working. And I thought I didn't need it. I thought just the wind vein would be enough. But I realized I had to fix my autopilot.

53:50So I went about 36 hours without sleep through a couple of storms, about 50 miles off shore and arrived in Meay. That's when I diverted the PA and said, I can't, I can't do a week going to Okinawa like this. How long would be the journey to go all the way? Depending on the route, and that was another problem with my boat, I had to stay within 20 miles of shoreline. So I can't, I had temporary permission to do a straight line, but it was five to seven days. It would take, I mean, you're doing eight to 12 kilometers an hour. So again, depending on the wind and people who harbor hop, it takes them two or three weeks. Okay. Because then you wait for your weather windows. How does it work? Then if you divert your course and you suddenly want to stop in Meay and maybe stay in Meay a little bit, do you just over radio contact a local harbor,

54:54a fishing harbor and you just ask if you can stay and what are some of the procedures for you to stop there? With Marina's iPhone ahead, and in this case it was a Marina, and I phone the head, they had a slip for me, and they said, that's fine, please come. And that was a wonderful Marina. Usually though, of most of the 80 ports I've been to, it's just fishing harbors, and my policy is don't phone ahead, because you don't want to be told no. Because legally I have the right to go there. Local fishermen associations are very powerful. And I respect them. They're feeding the nation and they're earning a living. And so I'm very respectful of where I should harbor. But if you phone ahead, depending who you talk to, they view pleasure boats as a nuisance. So they'll just say no, no room here.

55:55So I always poke my nose in and find a place. Sometimes I'll be heading to a particular part of the wall and a fisherman will come out and go, nah, dummy, dummy. And so I say, don't go, don't go. And they point over there and I go over there. And then I always make sure I take them a six pack of beer and a gift and... But Marina's you need to make a reservation. But they're expensive. 80 ports are 100 pan. I guess you met a lot of these fishermen that you've exchanged a few beers with. Earlier you were telling about this bicycle trip where you kind of met all these communities talking about facing religion. What have you learned from kind of going from port to port and talking to all these local fishermen or all the local communities you've met in these kind of boating areas, if I can call them like that? Well, it's reaffirmed how wonderful Japan is. Particularly Inaka, Japan. I mean, I love city life as well. And I enjoy coming to Kansai.

56:55But there's something special about Inaka. And I'm often asked, where is your favorite place? Whether cycling or sailing. And I can't answer it because every place is unique. Not just in topography and maybe local food and local. Ben, but also the people you meet, the encounters you make. In one place it may be an acupuncturist who's also in sailor, who then showed me kind of a deeper meaning of acupuncture and et cetera. So I think again, I mean the process of writing this book on the art of community. It's the sea communities at work. And my current village that I'm more a half a kilometer offshore of on the island of Mamioshima

57:57in a village called Ukensohn, which is 1,500 people spread over a dozen helmets, a 40 kilometers of coastline, and my hamlet of Burin has 29 people. I'm the third youngest at 71. And the hamlet bulges at times as grandkids come and children come back and they have particularly respect for the aged festival in September. It is a big time. But then along the way, I just ask people's advice and tips and there's a sailor in Misaki who gave me three great tips and a common feature I see of, well, I read about this in the book. In Japan's longevity hot spots, I see Japan as a playlist.

58:57Taiso in the morning, karaoke at night. That's true. If you think about it, I see this. Yeah, common denominators among the... And probably the hundreds of karaoke bars in Inaka. And Japanese love to sing. And they love music. And move to it. And so these community places stay and keep the people kind of in good shape. You just mentioned you are Harvard in Okinawa. So you made it there after all. Why did you decide to anchor there in Amamioshima in this kind of little hamlet that you're at now? How did you find this? And how did you... Then I approached the community to kind of explain that you are maybe having a book project and you want to stay there for a longer period and can you tell a little bit the story about that? Well, it's my second time at Amamioshima. And Amami is actually in Kagoshima, but it's closer to Okinawa than it is the mainline Kusyu. And the first time I try to get to Amami three times

59:57successful in the third time, because an Australian who lives there called Matt Pride of Amami Adventures who then worked for the mayor working on that they got World Heritage Site Status so working on inbound tourism. And he heard about my YouTube channel again, just fledgling at that time. And he talked to the mayor and the mayor said, invite him to come here. So that's how I ended up in Amami. So the first time I left Tokyo and then with me, I was actually going to go to Amami first because a little bit closer than Okinawa main island. And then I failed that time. So instead I circled Kusyu twice and it set on Ikei and Shikoku. And then meanwhile the History Channel approached me. The History Channel? The History Channel. Yeah, the History Channel to do a pilot

1:00:58for a Hope for Television Series, going there to dream. Based on your book as well. And the concept was old guy, me, New Hobby, Sailing, Remote Japan, Exploring. And so initially they wanted to do it in Amami, Oshima. So on my second circle around Kusyu, I was then going to go meet the film crew in Amami, now make it on the second attempt. But then there was the volcano. Sakurai Jima, that era. No, the volcano technically part of Tokyo City but one of the far off islands and it formed an island. Oh yes, I remember. And the lab of field, the ash, which is like gravel, came all the way to Amami, Oshima, flooded the harbors. Really? So I was warned, don't come.

1:01:58Because you have to use your engine to get into port. And it will just, it's so abrasive and get caught up in the propeller and the driveshaft. So then I circled Kusyu's second time. We went to Ikigima instead for the film shoot. And then finally a year later, the third attempt, I made it to Amami, made some wonderful friends there, spent eight months, then sailed down the Luku Islands, the Okinawa where I spent 15 months, setting those islands. And then last year, I was going to use my sailboat to do what I had done by bicycle, 25 years previously, followed the cherry blossom friend, the length of Japan. But I was way laid on one of the islands, the Aijima, with Noro virus, which put me behind. And I knew I couldn't catch up by boat. So when I came back into Amami two weeks later, the question that I asked, where's your favorite place in Japan?

1:03:01I realized from a sailing point of view, Amami's my favorite place. And I have friends there, my own mooring boy. And so that's why I decided I've stopped cruising. The boat and I are now staying there. However, I'll let you in on a secret, which by August or whenever will be public, and there'll be official next month. But it looks like next year, my boat, Wahine, is sailing to Mexico. But it will cross the Pacific. But not with me, with my best friend on Amami Oshima, who runs a turtle NPO, or the loggerhead turtle. And from a side's point of view, he's going to sail the turtle highway to Mexico. Because when they hatch in Tanigashima, and Yakashima, they then take three to five years,

1:04:01swim to Mexico, grow up, and then big and stronger that takes them a year to come back, nest where they were born, and then spend the rest of their adult lives. Well, that's quite the journey. So my boat's going to do it after all. So she will leave Amami. It seems like from the stories you share, sailing around Japan is not without challenges. Storms, lava from underwater volcanoes and such. What are some of the things people should know about sailing in Japan? What are some of the common challenges that you encounter when you are going through the seat or in the seat around Kyushu or along the coastline? Aqua farming, fishing. And tidal currents. I mean, obvious things like depth, of course. And also tidal ranges. So where I'm in Amami, the tidal range can be two meters. In Settle Naikaya, it can be four meters. Okay. If you're tidied up against the wall,

1:05:02you need to be prepared with ladders. And don't leave your boat from within two or three hours because you won't be able to go back down. Well, and also if your boats are too tight, you know, your boat will, the lines will snap. So you have to be constantly adjusting your lines. Marine law, of course. But in Japan, probably what's unique is, is the fishing industry. Be very mindful of fishermen and respectful of them. And they, they're prolific. And they, they work all hours, not all kinds of weather, of course. But I was told by offshore sailors that coastal sailing is more dangerous. Why is that? Because when you're in the middle of the ocean, you go days, weeks without seeing anything. And these days, modern boats have so-narring and detect

1:06:04that there's some thing floating in the ocean or a container, et cetera. But there's a lot more danger, most to coast. And I've encountered that in January, leaving one of the Nagasaki Goto Islands, left pre-San rise. I was motor sailing, son had just risen. And I saw ahead of me kind of a, I could tell it was a vortex, where some go me had gathered. Which means there's something, there's not a whirlpool, but there's a little bit of a swirl there. So, so logs and bottles. And so I, I immediately turned the boat to avoid it. And suddenly, I was looking over the side, just to make sure I saw a discarded fishing net, a meter under the surface. And I immediately went to turn my throttle off, but too late, my prop got caught up. Oh, that nearly sunk my boat. Wow. Because the torque of the propeller

1:07:07suddenly stopping sent a vibration up the shaft, broke the seal, and water started to drip in. What are you doing that situation? I didn't know it was dripping at that time. It was January, I had no wetsuit, so I couldn't, and there was a whole swath of net now behind me. So I couldn't cut it. And I called, I had to eventually call the Coast Guard. They came and told me to where I could, it's a bit technical because I had a, I was a member of boat assistance network. It's kind of like Jeff, the automobile association. But it's kind of like an Uber concept where local fishermen belong to it. And it cost me 40,000 years. But if I need rescue, one of them will come out. But it doesn't cover all of Japan. So I was, I was 12 kilometers out of that zone.

1:08:07Okay. So the Coast Guard told me to in that zone. And then the fish and cave took me the rest of the way. But it was after I got to the dock, finally relieved that I was safe, hired a diver the next morning to go down and cut it free. And then I see if the engine would start, so it started, I put it forward with reverse. It worked. Thank God, it's no problem. I then went for a bike ride for two hours, came back for a nap, boned my wife. As I'm talking to her, she said, I hear a lot of splashing. I thought, I think it's the fishing boat's going by. Well, when I finished talking to her, I stepped out of bed, I stepped into water. And it was, I timed it. It was six drips a minute. Doesn't sound like much. No. But after 24 hours.

1:09:09And then it took three hours to pump it, and we got it rectified. And I text the harbor master right away within minutes, Coast Guard, port authority, harbor master, two mechanics in the marine engineer were there. Wow. It's a very serious thing, if a boat is sinking. Is this then covered by some sort of insurance? Is this something that's out of your pocket that you need to fix when you suddenly have all these authorities coming to kind of... I had insurance. And they're not my sponsor, but I was, if I was yellow, it's some pole. I expected the worst scenario, where they would find every reason why they wouldn't pay for anything. And in the end, everything was covered. Including the Toad of Fukuoka. 50 kilometers, I'd be towed. Five weeks later, once I could get a... an empty slot in the crane that take my boat out of the water. These situations, I imagine, when you're living on a boat, kind of really change your schedule,

1:10:09something like this happens. Suddenly you have to stay for five weeks in this harbor. You can... You're yearly scheduled if you have one or so. It's then probably difficult to maintain if you have other obligations. In this case, you may have delegated some of your hope in international responsibilities and such, and you're writing your books from the boat, I imagine. But there's something to really plan for you, and I kind of actively live on a boat. Sailors have a saying that sailors write their plans in the sand at low tide. So one thing I've learned in sailing is nothing is certain. When I was working with the history channel, I eventually did the pilot in a day or it had never went to series in the end. Or not yet, they say they still hope it may do. But they kept on, you know, the producers who I love working with would say, well, can you be there on this date? And I would always say, the only place I can definitely say I can be

1:11:10is where I am now. And as we learned with the volcano, the volcano gas, Konienta Mammy Oshima. And I think, you know, with age, maybe you chill out a little bit, but I think being on the boat has caused me to be much more relaxed and less of a hurry. And because my boat's going to Mexico, I'm going from boat life to van life. And I pick up my camper van on July 30th. And some people think, well, is that so slow? And I said, hey, I'm used to going at 10 kilometers an hour. And last year, I was researching this book going to longevity hotspots. I have 155 nights in hotels. Most of those capsulose hotels. So I love sleeping in narrow places. So, yeah, sailing slows you down.

1:12:10You're explaining as well that one of the things that's unique about sailing in Japan are the fishermen. And the fish at all times of day and night. And that you have to be respectful in mindful of them. What is so unique about the fishermen in Japan that is maybe different than what other sales might be familiar with in other parts of the world? That's a good question. I don't know, because I don't really have any experience. Although my great uncles were fishermen off the west coast of Canada. I would, and maybe the med is the same just by the pictures I see. And times I've been there, but small boats. Harbors are filled with small boats. There's over 1,000 harbors in Japan. And it's a lone fisherman going out, catching a fish. And what's really fun to see in the smallest of communities is a fish auction. Like you get in Tokyo and Sakiji. You get that local fisherman

1:13:10arrived with whatever they caught. Squid fish to be a whole variety. And local buyers come from restaurants, local soupa. And they're all bidding. There's maybe only a 12 bidders. Five trays of fish. And a little dock. And a little dock. And they do Taiso beforehand. And karaoke after where they eat a fish from today's catch. And this is a secret to longevity. The secret to longevity is, and this is where I, my book focuses on a number of things I discovered a, what I call a longevity mindset in Japan. I call it the CCK mindset. So I didn't set out with this, but this is what I've kind of distilled everything into. Because looking at behaviors and patterns, everything I observe can be put in one of these three categories.

1:14:10The first is curiosity. Which is eki guy, which is lifelong learning. What gets you out of bed in the morning. What, you know, delighting in discovering. However you want to call it. Yes. And, and of course it's an obvious thing to say. I was talking to a curator of world's largest data base on the aging at the University of Michigan. And she was at a Gerontology conference with me that I'm one of the organizers of in Tokyo. In 2025. And I said, do her, you know, 25 years you've been curating all this data coming in all this research. What's the one thing that you would say summarizes how somebody live long and well. And without hesitation, she said curiosity. It is a state of mind. So that's the first thing. The second thing is community, which is really the heart of the book.

1:15:10And really where I started, you know, all my background in community development with hope informs me somewhat on this. But it was in Okinawa, the discovery of the concept of moai. It's just very similar to microcredit groups in Cambodia and Nepal, India and other places where I witnessed it. And so that's where the art of community comes from. But the K is Kari Ok. And at first I used Kari Ok as kind of a metaphor for joy. And then my academic advisor, James McNally, said to me, you got to define joy. It's too nebulous. But then I realized, no, there's actually the act of singing. And the act of social singing, that nurtures that list the spirit. And I just, to go into these Inaka Kari Ok bars, we're to snack bar and it's no bachan or g-sub here in the counter.

1:16:10Local fishermen are there. Some are drinking. Of course, they're drinking. But some aren't drinking. They're coming for the singing. And whether you're good or bad, everybody applaud. And on my island, they don't say, Compai afterwards, they say, Hana Hana. I said, why don't you say Hana Hana? Because, and they know, Compai the word. But they say, because when you sing, it's like a flower opening up. Isn't that beautiful? And so the role of Kari Ok is very important. With the Moai social structure and Okinawa, where there's groups of 10, 12, 15 people who meet monthly, they loan money to each other, they then have a meal and they sing together afterwards. The singing and the laughing is a critical part of their Moai point of reference. And so I've been on a Kari Ok crawl around Japan.

1:17:14Kari Ok crawl in 80 ports around Japan. So with your book kind of being passed on to someone that's going to take it across your boat, sorry, being passed on to someone that's going to take it across the Pacific, your K-van coming into your possession. And this project that I guess is reaching a conclusion as well, what will be the next chapter? Are you planning to drive along the cherry blossoms next with a K-van and have another social experiment? Do you have other book ideas in mind? What's next for you? The Long Jebri project is continuing because I'm not retired. I do have to work for a living. I have to pay for my dreams, etc. And I don't want to retire. So the Long Jebri project is continuing. There is the book side of the Long Jebri project. And this is under the umbrella of the Never Too Late Academy,

1:18:15which has investors. And they're very trusted advisors too. Every Thursday morning at 5.30am, we have a call. And it's more of them coaching me. They're experienced entrepreneurs. So there's an accountability point for me with the Long Jebri project. And number one is the book, which is now in the hands of an agent. First time I've had an agent. I've always dealt directly with a commissioning editor before. This agent is now negotiating with 12 publishers across 10 languages. So that's knockin' wood. It's nothing's in the bank yet. But that's out of my hands. But I have companies asking me to consult with them about behaviorisms of super-aggers in Japan. And I've just finished a six-month contract with a Hong Kong insurance company who they approach me through an intermediary to give them advance insights into my book.

1:19:20Because my focus has not been on the Blue Zone metric, which is the Blue Zone metric is people living over 100 years old. So centenarians per capita. And of course, the concept of the Blue Zone came about because Dan butiner from National Geographic and his fellow researchers were trying to identify places on a map where there were people 100 years old and older, you know, high concentrations. And they found that they used the Blue Pen. And one of the places on the World Map was Okinawa. Okinawa is no longer a Blue Zone, by the way. There's no longer a long, doesn't qualify as a longevity hotspot. Because its longevity stats have collapsed. I mean, it's still part of Japan and Japan ranks high. But it's gone from number one down to number 32. Ok. Depending on which kind of a calculate you use to it.

1:20:20So when I was in Okinawa, I became more interested in what one-gerentologist calls the red zone. The red zone is not a place, it's a period of our lives. Between healthy lifespan and lifespan. Lifespan is death. Healthy lifespan in Japanese government definition is when you... Healthy lifespan is living your life unassisted. And because of the annual check-up system in Japan, there's a defined moment when the government classifies you as unassisted and assisted. So there are data on that period. It's quite exact. Compared to other countries in the world where it's very blurry. It's up to how you feel. And if you are seeking assistance or if you still try to figure this out by yourself at home. Exactly. So my...

1:21:20I then followed... I used data as my compass last year. Initially I thought just during cherry blossom season, I became so fascinated and out of time. I spent all of last year following data trails to... and interviewing what... whom I call red zone rebels. And my book starts by setting two women. Both same age, both died at age 92. One red zone was over 10 years long. And another was six weeks long. The one 10 years long was my mother in Canada. And saw her slide more and more into dementia. And then COVID came for six months, no human touch. Her dementia accelerated. And the other was a woman who she had met.

1:22:20Obachan, we call her, granny of the fields, Elizabeth lower house in Nagoya. And she farmed the same land for 60 years. Actually when my son Mackenzie was still in university, he did a film about her as well that's one of the award at Conlines. The one festival called Granny of the Fields. It's a black and white kind of black and white. I watched that. Yeah, I'll send you the link. It's on his site if you see it. And so I start, so that became my concern is we all know we will die. And maybe we all fear that moment to some degree, but what we really fear is that red zone of losing our independence, losing our dignity. And so my exploration has been into, I want to discover the patterns of behavior. What is the social context where people are living happy, healthy lives.

1:23:24And in Nagano, they have the pink auto prayer, the pink auto Jizo. My pronunciation Japanese is always so bad. And so place where people come and pray that prayer which basically says I want to live a long happy life and drop dead. That's really what we all want. We don't want that period of decline. So in answer to your question, I take a long time. My research is going to continue and at the moment the longevity project is my passion. So a lot more interesting findings to come from all the data that you're kind of digging up and collecting and putting together. We make sure all the links are in the description so people can kind of find that and look at all the things you've found already. No, we've covered so many topics. You journey in Japan, the many exciting adventures you've been on and looking to sailing and look at the amazing work you've done with Hope International. And some of your personal projects. Is there anything that you didn't really touch upon that you would have still liked to bring up today?

1:24:24Let me just share three things in an old sailor told me when I started out my sailing journey. And when I stopped in Misaki. And I was this old sailor came by in his K truck. He says, I'm building a boat. Do you want to see it? I said, sure. So he took me turns out he's an experienced sailor circumnavigated twice before. Now building a boat at age 80. Well, I'll do it a third time. And on the way back, I asked him, man, I'm an all of you. And I'm such a novice. What tip do you have for me as somebody who wants to sail across Pacific? And without hesitation, he said three things. Number one, he said, don't fall overboard. And on a boat, you have to be intentional about that. It can't be on a whim where if the boat jiggles, you know, I must have a lower board. Now you have to have your tethers in place. You have to plan for that not happening, particularly as a solo sailor.

1:25:29Secondly, he said, in crisis, stay calm, don't panic, which seems of course. But on a boat, panic expresses itself in moving quickly. And moving quickly on a boat is dangerous. You have to be sure footed. So even taking two or three steps quickly, the boat can move beneath you. So on a boat, even in crisis, you have to move slowly and calmly and don't panic. Third thing he said was, and when the storm comes, be happy. And remind yourself, this was your dream and you chose to be here. The first two, I was able to implement, I always prepared the not falling overboard. And when I had problems, I'd say, okay, take a deep breath. Remember what Thomas said? They'd walk slowly. That third one, particularly when I was between Yakushima and a mummy,

1:26:34milled and I lost my engine, a storm came up, almost blown onto a live volcano. So I'd say, Gima, I was so scared. I was like, what the hell am I doing here? Et cetera, et cetera. And of course, I remember his words. And at that point, there's no way I can be happy. But what his words reminded me of is that I chose to be there. So nobody else is culpable only me. And to me, those are three great lessons of life. Words of wisdom by old sailor Tarosan. Thank you very much and thank you, Lord, for sharing your experience in bringing them to us as well. It was really interesting to have you today to hear you many stories. All the links will be in the description so people can see your adventures. I find all the resources you have. Maybe pick up one of your books if they're curious to see some of the work you've already done. Thank you very much. Thank you and thank you for what you're doing to unpack Japan. Thank you and for listening and watching.

1:27:34This was unpacking Japan and we'll see you in the next episode. Take care. Wow. So many exciting. How long did we go in here? Thanks for sticking with us until the end. If you haven't already, please consider subscribing to unpacking Japan. It's the best way to help us grow and ensure you can keep bringing you these deep dives every week. Till next time, take care.