The Kenny Report | 1 October

0:00This is the Kenny Report. Welcome to the show, Steve Price, in for Chris again tonight. And we could today be talking about a September 11 style airliner attack on the programme. If it wasn't for extreme bravery on board, a fly to buy, flight, headed for Tel Aviv. Amazing details, more on that to come later. It is October 1, which means changes to the way that we use credit and debit cards for everyday purchases after the RBA, outlawed card payment fees. However, confusing sheams to reign about how this will impact on prices. Sally Tindall from Canstar will walk us through all of that detail. And Kenny regular Alexander Downer joined us. He's in London with the latest on that bizarre foiled incident near an air force base that hosts US bomber aircraft. Plus the American forces retreat from Iraq. I'll also have the latest in sport with Kenny regular Mark Robinson as three-time Premiership winning Lions coach Chris Fagan pulls the plug on his career

1:03while going out on top. But as I said at the top today, brings a change to something, especially since COVID, that we have become addicted to using debit or credit cards to tap and go by just about everything we purchase from petrol to coffee and groceries. A small minority of people still use cash, but we are all but a cashless society, which suits the banks, and most of us ignored the fact that each tap came with a small charge. Now, when inquiry by the independent RBA chose October 1 today, as the date when those transaction charges were no longer legally being able to be applied. On first blash, that seemed like a good thing for consumers. Government tried to sell it that way. And typically, that same government is now taking credit for saving you money, even though it was an RBA move. Now, here's the Prime Minister Anthony Albany, Albany's here today, chirping away on social media about here, here in his treasurer, saving you money.

2:03Every time you tap those little search charges are up, right now they're costing Aussies $1.6 billion each and every year. But from today, they're banned, saving you money every time you tap. So whether you're at the supermarket paying bills or buying a cup of coffee, price you see is a price you pay. Hang on, not so quick. Here's the opposition's James Patterson on the coffee question. Well, you're sort of Prime Minister promised that everybody's coffee was going to be cheaper today. So I encourage everyone who goes out to buy a coffee this morning to check, is it in fact cheaper? And if so, how much cheaper is it compared to what you paid for yesterday or the week before or the month before? It wasn't cheaper. It wasn't cheaper at all. Now, it's fair to make the point that a lot of smaller businesses do not pass on these transaction costs, but plenty of them do, a point that the treasurer Jim Charmers was very quick to make today. Small businesses put up their prices. They'll need to put that on the menu. Right now, I think something like 84% of businesses don't charge credit or debit charge

3:09surcharges. So we're talking about about 16% of businesses. And if they put up their prices, they will have to justify it. Need a bit of fact checking on Jim there. I'm not sure about those figures. So what's actually going to happen on the ground? Now, as I said, we'll talk a silly tindle from CanStar in a moment. But if you listen to hospitality figures, people who work in cafe, cafe owners, small business operators, you get a very different story. For example, here is Carsey Beach Greek, a Greek restaurant in Bondi, owner Peter Papas on News 24 this morning. Here we are in the middle of an inflationary environment. Inflation is up, interest rates are up, energy costs are up, and now you've got to pay more for your coffee and your food. And this government seems to rejoice in such things as increasing the minimum wage. We'd love to pay people more, but every time we do that, you the customer pays more. We earn less and people go out of business. Boy, it's going to be interesting to see what this all does to inflation.

4:10Now, clearly that's the reality. A reality the Prime Minister in his cute TikTok post would have no clue about. He's never run a business. He's never had to rely on his own investment to turn a wage, pay a wage earner, never employed anyone out of his own pocket, or paid payroll tax, or paid penalty rates. And these days he doesn't even pay for petrol. Now, reality and common sense really pierces the camber bubble. And that's the problem. I mean, I've never felt for so many people as I did this week after that latest interest rate rise. I've heard of people canceling, for example, private health insurance to keep their heads above water, eating out as shelved. No one's doing it. Streaming services cancelled. Public transport being used instead of the car because of the high cost of fuel. You can add rising power bills, crippling rates bills, and of course, surging insurance costs for the house and for the car. It's beyond tough and it's getting worse.

5:12Now, here is Cafe owner Alex Daniel on the October 1 change. We've been looking at our pricing, looking at competitors pricing around the area. And with all of our cost to increase, there's a price increase for us inevitable anyway. So the price increase where we will be doing will be larger than what is so charged. Yes, it would usually be about 10 cents on a coffee, but our prices will go up a bit more than that. I know who'd other operators today say more. You know, it goes up more than that because we round it up. And when you think about the increased costs of fuel and the delivery costs in diesel trucks to all of these little businesses, they're paying more for their real product. So you put that on top of this. And of course, their prices are going to go up. Someone said today that restaurants around the country are rewriting their menus. And the government's out there crowing today about how much better off you will be. We all know that is a fantasy. A cost of a morning coffee told us today

6:13and you wonder the impact this will have as I said on inflation, not good, I presume. But this is a real problem. And I don't think the government understand exactly what's happened here. More than 500, let's bring in Dan Tee and him. More than 500 jobs have been saved at Rio Tinto today. That's smelter and tazzy. That's after the state and federal governments announced $200 million of your tax money. We'll bail it out to keep it running. It's less than two months after, of course, a much bigger deal between the Commonwealth and the Mins administration to keep the Tomago aluminium plant open in New South Wales. That'll cost 2.5 billion over 10 years. Here's the prime minister making the announcement in tazzy today. I want to lead a country that makes things here. The theme of our budget was reform and resilience. We need to ensure that in today's uncertain world we'd be less dependent upon imports. Let's bring in shadow energy minister Dan Tee.

7:15And so the prime minister says he wants to be a prime minister that runs a country that makes things. I mean, does he really seriously think we believe this stuff? No. No. No. I mean, it's a complete nutter joke. I mean, what he's doing is he's giving money to Bel Bay so it can continue. Meanwhile, he's taking money from them using the safeguard mechanism, which is their ideological approach to try and reach net zero, which we're not going to get to by 2050. I mean, it is a money merry-go-round, which makes no sense whatsoever, Steve. The best thing he could do is scrap net zero, scrap the safeguard mechanism, and make sure that he puts downward pressure on energy prices. I mean, yesterday we saw the inflation figures out. 13% was the contribution that electricity is making to the latest inflation data. So when you get your next power bill, know that Chris Bowen not only is causing that to go away,

8:19but he's also causing your mortgage to go up. What this government's approach to energy and economy is, is beyond a joke, sadly, and Australians are paying the price. What he's also doing, Dan, is sandbagging the marginal seat of bass. Let's be honest. Well, there's that as well, because that's what he's literally being left to now, because of the sheer economic incompetence, because of the renewables only pursue that Chris Bowen is making. He knows that they're in serious, serious political trouble now. I mean, we've seen it because the Prime Minister's popularity figures have gone through the floor, and now they're out spending money, like they always do. But the trouble is that's costing Australians, because the more they spend, sadly, the more inflationary pressure there is, and the more interest rates go up, and it's just doomed for failure, sadly.

9:20So the coalition I saw Angus Tadda today, I mean, you largely are in joint support of rescuing or helping to survive this bill-bay aluminium plant. It's owned by Rio Tinto, one of the biggest companies in the world. How do both sides of politics convince Australian taxpayers that it's a good idea to be giving Rio Tinto $200 million? Well, the only reason we can do it is because we need to be continuing to make aluminium in this country, and because we've got a plan to make sure that in the medium to longer term, they can stand on their own two feet and won't need bailing out. And the way you do that is provide affordable energy in this country. Aluminium smelters, as you know, Steve and your viewers know, require affordable energy if they're going to be able to continue in this country.

10:21And that's why we're saying, get rid of that zero, get rid of the safeguard mechanism, which is a tax on the 200 largest well-company in Australia, and most of them are our in the heavy industry area. And make sure we're saying to the Australian energy regulator, focus on affordability, not on green ideology, and that's how we're going to get energy down in this country. And that's what we want to do, because as we've seen at Bell Bay, we've seen at Yalla, we've seen it time ago. You know, the only reason these facilities are alive now is because the government's got to bail them out. And at the same time, their bailing amount, as I've said, the government's taxing them for doing what they do. It just makes no sense whatsoever. A little bit of a blue today between New South Wales Premier Chris Bens and the Prime Minister has taken a thinly veiled jab at excessive government spending, which of course is driving up inflation.

11:21Here's Chris Bens today. Well, look, I just say that I think every government has a responsibility to do what it can to take demand out of the economy. I'm South Wales Treasurer myself for 70 times. We have heard the advice from the RBA over the last two years that we need to be careful with public funds. Well, he's reasonably blunt, but I mean, you and I are in Victoria. You've got a Labor government in Victoria that just, you know, it's eight weeks out from an election, and they're just spending money like drunken sailors. They are there putting new train stations in the middle of marginal seats to save the Premier. One of the greatest most expensive pieces of pork barreling that you'll ever see. And next week, we're going to get another reminder of it because the Prime Minister, Anthony Albanese and Chris Bowen are going to be going to Fiji and Tuvalu at the taxpayers expense

12:25for some pre-cop meeting, which isn't going to achieve anything. And that's $150 million of taxpayers' money. And I can tell you, if your mortgage went up this week, like many Australians did, when they see the Prime Minister and Chris Bowen jet enough to Fiji and Tuvalu next week, they're going to rightfully be really, really angry because if you want to pull government spending and constrain government spending, they should can that trip today because it is a complete none-of-way-stum-unnie. Just for you go, 262,000 houses short of the government's target. You couldn't do much worse than that, could you? No, you couldn't. And Claire O'Neill, I can't wait to see how she tries to spin her way out of this because she's been there saying, oh, they're on target, they're on target. It's all going beautifully. Every statistic, every fact shows you it's not. And I just can't wait to see how she tries to spin away out of this.

13:27The fact of the matter is that everything that the Albanese Labor government is doing isn't working at the moment. And people are waking up to it. I mean, they're very, very good at the spin. And as you know, Anthony Albanese gets tutored by Dan Andrews to just get on camera and just say things and hope that people will believe it when everyone knows that it's nonsense. And people are waking up to it whether it's housing, whether it's energy, whether it's on inflation and interest rates, whether it's on faith, saying that they're doing wonders when it comes to government spending, everyone knows it's the complete opposite. The people are waking up to it and they're getting caught out. And that's why I think the Prime Minister is in a world of pain at the moment and for the first time, Steve, I think that he might retire and go before the next election because he is just absolutely toxic now out in the community. And as you were saying in your introduction, this, you know, taking away the surcharges,

14:31saying that this isn't going to have an impact, well, I can tell you, when I bought my coffee this morning, when I spoke to the place where I went and got my sandwich for lunch, they're saying to me, they've got no alternative, but to put prices up and in a cost of living circumstances and inflationary circumstance, you know, they've gone and done this. I mean, everything they do just is just turns to custard and sadly Australians are paying the price. Good on your Dan Tee and I'll talk to you soon, Dan Tee, and they're talking about that issue of the credit card charges. I covered that in my editor's top of the program, but if you're just tuning in, card surcharges are now being banned, effective today, October 1, means many small businesses are now going to have to jack up their prices to pass the cost of the transactions onto consumers. Joining me for a deeper dive into it, what will this mean? Sally Tindle, Director of CanStar Data Insight. Sally, the RBA pitched this change as a win for transparency,

15:32which I guess it is, but it doesn't just make small businesses now look like the bad guys because as Dan Tee was just saying they're going to all, not all of them, but many of them are going to have to put up their prices. Yeah, this is incredibly tough for small businesses. That's for sure because they're in a rock and a hard place. They have to either absorb the costs themselves or pass it through in higher prices. And it's a really good point about the fact that, you know, business owners, small business owners don't want to be, you know, hiking prices and then hiking them again and again. So we might see actually prices go up by a little bit more than the actual surcharge because they know that, you know, petrol costs are on the rise and they're going to have another wave of higher expenses down the line. So it will be tough times. Look, the RBA came through and capped the back end fee known as the interchange fee. Goes from the payment system provider to the banks or the card issuers in a bid to make accepting electronic payments by card more cost effective. But it also, again, requires the small business owners in many parts

16:32to do something about it. They've got to go back out there and shop around for a more competitive payment system provider get new infrastructure in order to take card payments. We are piling on, you know, these administrative burdens and costs onto small businesses. It is problematic. Like you, I like to look at these issues in, you know, what's actually going to happen on the ground and how it impacts people directly. Most of us are so ingrained of this habit now since COVID, probably, of using tap and go. You'll go in and you tap for your petrol or a coffee or whatever. And most people will just suck up those price increases, which means that this is going to have yet again another impact on flation, which is probably inevitably going to drive another interest rate rise. So the RBA says they're not as worried as perhaps you and I, because, you know, there's not a huge amount of businesses when you come to volume of purchases that are actually surcharging. But that's because the big retailers, Woolies, Coals, they've got purchasing powers, the cost of accepting card payments for them

17:33is a lot lower than small businesses and they didn't charge a surcharge beforehand. But if small businesses are, and look, this is no criticism to them, but if they're using this as a moment in time to increase their prices to account for the card surcharge payment. But then also the cost pressures that they're feeling elsewhere. I think that the RBA may not have accounted for that, that they might see a bigger spike in inflation than perhaps they might have. But if they're using the RBA, they might have a bigger spike in inflation than perhaps they had anticipated. I don't know that it'll trigger yet another rate hike. I think that one's already coming. Yeah, probably. I mean, the odds now are probably beginning next year, not November on Cup Day, but who knows? Let's talk about interest rate rises because that's the season. While it's bad news for borrowers, I guess for older Australians, people who've got money in fixed interest, it's some good news, finally. If A, the banks will tell us what they're doing with savings accounts. They haven't, by and large, haven't told us yet.

18:33We know Westpac, it was the only big fall bank that actually announced what it would do for some of its savings accounts, not all. They told me, they've already told me what they're going to do with my mortgage. Yeah, mine's going up too. I already got that letter today. That was fun. But yes, for savers technically, we should see an increase to interest rates. And that's it. But then it comes down to the details, Steve, because we analysed the last three rate hikes from the RBA and what happened to savings accounts. And with bonus saver accounts, that's where you have to do certain things every month to qualify for the maximum ongoing rate. What we see is that the banks come through and they get very particular about what portion of the savings account rate is actually going to get that hike. And it's always the boat, well, mostly the bonus rate. So what we've seen in our data is that, yes, the banks pass it on. And in fall, sometimes even a little bit more to the bonus portion, but the base portion stays absolutely still, which means if you don't meet those monthly conditions every single month, which is quite hard for say a retiree to do,

19:35because it's often to grow your balance, things that, you know, then don't naturally have in there kind of banking set up. If you don't meet those bonus conditions, you could be getting no rate hike at all. In fact, some of those base rates are down to what 0.00%? What a great savings rate that is. Seems to me that they get us both in. Sally, it was a pleasure to talk to you. Thank you. Sally Tindale here. And she had some great advice yesterday on the interest rates. Go out and shop around. Ring your bank. See if you can get a better deal. I want us to talk more about this story that's developed since we went to here yesterday. It's quite remarkable. I mean, if you didn't know, it was really a thing. It was a film. The captain and passengers of a flight headed from Dubai to Tel Aviv been lauded as heroes after fending off a suspected attempted. You can call it a hijack or it could have been a suicide mission. It could have been a terrorist who wanted to crash the plane, killing everybody on board. Here's a few more details from our partners at CNN.

20:36We are here on the plane right now. We have taken control of the terrorists. A scary close call for passengers and crew on flight FC 1073 Wednesday morning. Flight tracking data shows the flight Dubai plane dropped 17,400 feet and less than two minutes. After officials say of violent incident involving the two pilots set the plane into a rapid descent. It was headed from Dubai to Tel Aviv. The passengers' daughter says her mother described the plane suddenly diving. She said the airplane was kind of start jumping in the air and then it stopped diving very quick to the ground. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu says one of the pilots stabbed the other pilot and appears to have tried to crash the plane. And passengers and crew got into the cockpit and subdued him. Another team who were on the plane went into the cockpit and managed to stabilize the plane. The plane was diverted to Saudi Arabia where it eventually landed safely.

21:37The leading aviation operator said both pilots were taken to a hospital with injuries. Israeli authorities are investigating but the motive has not been established. The incident received swift reaction from around the world. A lot of questions. How do the passengers get into what is supposed to be a blocked cockpit? How do the weapon get into the cockpit? Passengers of the diverted flight flew back to Tel Aviv Wednesday afternoon. After a new flight to Dubai plane was sent to pick them up. President Trump talked to Bibbi Netanyahu to get his version of what happened. The president was having a media conference in the Oval Office. He's how he described what he thought had gone on. And it seems as though the copilot was perhaps a terrorist or perhaps a wet jump. He stabbed the pilot and Israeli plumbers so what was happening? It was strong. When you live pipe all day you're strong. The plane was going sharply down at an unbelievable angle.

22:39So sharp that the rudder ripped off the back of the plane. With the G forces as they were, he ripped this guy out of the seat, threw him back the crowd-gottom, the passengers got him, grabbed him, and having never flown a plane, he took the stick, lifted it up. And leveled out the plane before it crashed. And you know it's not like planes are different today. You just have a little steering wheel. Today they fly differently. And when I asked why he did that, he said he watches that show air disasters. He learned from watching that show. I don't know if it's true. But that's the story that I got from Bibbi. Well since the president termed those remarks, there has been much more confirmation of the fact that plummet did exactly what the president was talking about. Greg Barton is the global Islamic politics chair at Deacon University. And joins us. Greg so much could have gone wrong here. If the pilot himself had not flipped open the cockpit door,

23:40we know that those doors are heavy steel and locked now since September 11. You had the bravery of the passenger, the plummet. There was a reserved pilot on board. And you have to wonder how the co-pilot actually got a knife on board. But this could have been a major terrorist attack, surely. Yeah, I think we have to start with that, Steve. In a world that, you know, is full of bad news, things turning to custard. This is a good news story. This is a story of heroism. That captain that the first pilot had a switch beside his seat. He was, you know, bleeding potentially to death. He was saved by a medic on when he was rescued, but back in the cabin. But as he was perhaps on the point of passing out, he pushed the button to open the door. Had he not done that, it would have all been over. There would have been no way for anyone to get inside that reinforced door. So that was the first thing. And then we saw that brave plumber come forward, not stopping to think this aircraft, Stephen, in less than a minute, dropped five kilometers vertically, 5,000 meters.

24:40So just to be able to move forward in that situation is amazing. I mean, the dive, the death dive of that plane, everyone on board must have been absolutely terrified. But this guy obviously took it upon himself. Does lead a question to whether hidden somewhere else on a plane these days, there should be some way to get into that cockpit when you think about what would happen if that bloke had not been able to flick that switch. That flight route, Greg, you know this region as well as anyone, to buy a Tel Aviv, it's risky. But I was of the impression that Israel was always very security conscious on flights into and out of Israel. There was a spare pilot on board. I seem to think I heard that there might have been some security on there as well. But the Israeli is very conscious of this sort of thing potentially happening, aren't they? Yeah, they really you're at security. So something has gone wrong here. Wasn't there aircraft? It was an MRI, an aircraft, but they would have, you know,

25:41the air to buy would have vetted the pilot, the captain and the first officer. So how, you know, what ever happened with that first officer, the alleged attacker, we don't know whether it was political violence, something snapped, the tiptoe over the edge or metal health issues. But that, you know, clearly hadn't shown up on on pre-flight vetting and through his career, which must have been going on. So that's the big question. I mean, you can make the cockpit secure, but if something goes wrong inside the cockpit between the two pilots, how do you fix that? You know, just your question of opening the door that were two off-Judy pilots who managed to land the aircraft safely into by pilots. There is a code that they would know that they can get into the door, but you know, getting there in time is their craft. It's dropping, as I said, five kilometers in a minute. I mean, if it wasn't for the captain pushing the button, it's very likely that whole, you know, 174 lives would have been lost. And if that had happened, I mean, we'd obviously have to have some sort of investigation into the motivation.

26:43The security agencies would become involved, but it would have been a... If it was attached to one of the enemies of Israel, whether it's his balar or whether it was Hummers or whether it was someone in around, you know, all of the above, it would have been a massive PR crew for whoever this guy might or might not have been representing. That's right. So this speculation is if it involves a nation's state that at one level it would be Iran, you know, whether through channels or directly. But of course, we don't know what the motivation is. The fact that the first officer is alive, you know, has been wounded, of course, in the fight, but he's alive, so he can answer questions. That's a good thing. His electronic online footprint, his social media post will be checked. If there's some sort of manifesto or statement of extremism, that would suggest terrorism, you know, possibly including another state like Iran. It's also possible that this is a mental health episode.

27:43We had a flight on a budget airline in Europe, a German wings, where tragically the copilot locked the pilot out of the captain out of the cockpit, locked the door, and then crashed the aircraft into a mountain. That was suicide, but it was mass murder as well. That could be what's happened here. Greg Barton, it was good to catch up. Thanks a lot. I talked to you soon. Now, coming up after the break and other development, talking about a supposed terrorism, that bomb plot at the UK Air Base in the UK Prime Minister Andy Burnham's now weighed in on it, that and more with Kenny Regul, former Foreign Minister Alexander Downer. Welcome back to the price in for Chris Kenny. Let's return to this mysterious plot outside of Raff Base in South West England, that we've reported on right through the week. Now, if this is the first time you're hearing about it, police were called out to Raff Fairford on Sunday. After five men in white vans were spotted by a local farmer on a way home from dinner.

28:46They were all acting suspiciously, she rang the police. It led to a bomb scare arrests, fears of foreign interference, but the men were later released, quickly released within an N24 hours on bail, and it emerged one of them might have even called the police him on himself. No one seems to really know what's gone on here. The Prime Minister of the UK, Andy Burnham's now weighed in, take a listen to what he had to say. There are strong indications that Iran played a part in what happened over the weekend at Raff Fairford. He's tagged Iran, the US President Donald Trump. He had a media conference in the Oval Office this morning. He also talked about that in vent. Have you blown up? We have to make that decision. We blow up, make a deal, but the time is coming. It's going to end very soon, one way or the other. He, of course, he was talking about Iran. We've heard that plenty of times, let's bring in former Foreign Minister Alexander Downer, who, fortuitously, is in London,

29:47all very strange what happened at that air base, the reaction to the UK. What was the reaction there when these blocs all immediately? Got bail. I've only just arrived in the UK, so I haven't even been here for 24 hours. I think there is just complete confusion about what may have happened here. Let's just focus on the speculation. The speculation is that the Iranians may have paid these five people to institute a disruptive operation. So, whereas once it was thought the ban they had had explosives and petrol in it, all it had was petrol. There were no explosives. And as you said in your introduction, one of the five apparently rang the emergency services people

30:47to report the operation. So, it does look on the face of it, as though the Iranians paid these five people who are just sort of common all garden British criminals and to disrupt the air bases best they could and create a huge new story out of it, which they have successfully done. Well, we shouldn't be surprised by that, should we? Because the IRGC have done exactly the same thing in Australia, hiring local criminals to go out and fire bomb synagogues, which led to the Iranian ambassador being expelled from the country. So, this sort of operation is not something that they're not willing to do in other countries, not use their own people, but hire people to do it. Well, that's exactly right, Stephen. So, I think you draw the analogy with what happened in Australia and the explosion of the Iranian ambassador.

31:48The fact is the Iranians have been behaving like this for years for a very long time. We just go to this whole question of the war against Iran. I mean, since 1979, the Iranian regime, the theoretical dictatorship there, has been waging war against the West. We have to understand that. I mean, I noticed people thinking here of the Israelis demanding that Netanyahu agree to a two-state solution. Well, that's not going to happen until the Iranians agree to a two-state solution and the Iranians under this present regime never will. So, you have a huge problem with the IRGC, the people who run Iran. And this incident at RAFF is just a small example of what these people get up to.

32:50You fly around the world just about more than anybody I know. When you read and hear and watch about that event on that fly Dubai aircraft out of Dubai headed for Tel Aviv, you just must shake your head and think, oh my God, I mean, the hero plumber that got through that door and grabbed that bloke, got him out of the cockpit and then somehow decided he knew how to fly a plane. That's something that is almost unbelievable. I flew out of Dubai not an hour or so before that particular plane flew out of Dubai. I was on an Emirates flight. I'm fatalistic about my own safety on planes. But you're right. What was a miracle was that the captain of the plane was able to undo the cockpit door. And so people were able to get in there and the plumber going in there and resting with the co-pilot.

33:52God was definitely on the side of those people on that plane. And I Greg Barton and your earlier interview summarized my own thinking about it. We don't really know what the co-pilot was up to, whether he said, gee, had this, whether he's paid by the Iranians, whether he's somebody with a mental health problem. We don't know the answer to that. But the Israelis have now got him and they're interviewing him. No doubt in the style that only the Israelis know how. Just briefly, the extraction of the American troops out of Iraq, a lot better than what happened when they went out of Afghanistan. When we remember that massive American supply plane with people hanging off the wings. Yes, this has been, of course, a smaller operation than Iraq. And we couldn't claim it's perfectly stable, but it's a reasonably stable,

34:55a reasonably prosperous country now. And it's not very democratic, but it is at least somewhat democratic. So the Americans, I guess, don't feel they need the presence there anymore. Well, Afghanistan was a completely different thing. The Afghan people were under siege from the Taliban. Very few people supported the Taliban. And President Biden decided just to evacuate the country. And it was a terrible thing to do. And it demonstrated to people like the Iranians, the Chinese and the Russians, that America and the West is weak, that we can't stay the course. We can't talk to the Balkans, democracy and freedom. But we never implement our plans. That was the message that that sent. So this withdrawal from Iraq is a completely different proposition.

35:57Yeah, well said, Alexander, down the good to catch up. Thank you very much for joining us tonight all the way from London. Coming up after the break, we'll have the latest from the world of sport. Robbo will be with us, including news that three-time Brisbane Lions, Premise Ship Coach, the great Chris Fagan, is about to depart the club. Welcome back, a huge news and day. I fell this afternoon when three-time Premise Ship Coach of the Brisbane Lions, the great Chris Fagan, decided to step down. He won't coach next year. Let's bring in Mark Robinson. Robbo, I've got a, I'm cranky. I've got a bone to pick. Move far away, Steve. He's let old men down. All of us old guys, who are still working, what's he doing? As you know, it's all consuming. Working at our age, that's why I stopped. But to be an AFL coach, he's just tremendous. Chris Fagan has been a revelation in so many ways.

36:57The history of boxing in 50 years will tell the story that Chris Fagan, from Brisbane won three Premise ships in a row. But it won't go anywhere near telling the story of what this man has accomplished. I don't think there's a greater coaching performance than taking a team on the bottom of the ladder, to a Premise Ship, then to another one, and then to another one, Steve. He will be a Hall of Fame coach, but he's a Hall of Fame person. I don't think there's a person in football, supporter, other clubs who don't... Admire and respect what this man has done. It's just been a terrific story. Put yourself into reverse. You had this incredible career, covering footy. When he was appointed, did you write an opinion piece or not, saying, what are we doing, appointing a bloke who's not played at the top level? I don't think that would be that disrespectful.

37:57And I can't remember ever writing that. It was a surprise appointment because you know what the world's like. They weren't following. They're like sheep. People form an opinion by licking their finger and putting it in the ear and say, oh, okay, with the wind blows. But Brisbane went against the norm, and appointed this bloke who'd been at Melbourne, Hawthorn, Westside, Ells, to Clarkson. And I think there were doubts, but it just goes to show... I think certain in sport. You take a punt and it works out. He... You talk about A to Steve. If you talk about A, the trend now is to go younger coaches or first-time coaches, McVey and Excellent, Josh Fraser, North Melbourne, maybe looking at a first-time coach in the meantime, Chris Fagan at 65, has just taken to a team to three in a row. And people talk about having old people have a disconnect with young people. What rubbish! What rubbish is that?

38:59So I'm really, I'm really happy for him. And as I said, I think everyone in football would stand and applaud if they could at the Brisbane Festifers and say, thank you for what you've done for football and go and have a great retirement. I respect your opinion greatly. I've got a job for Fags. He's going to come back to Melbourne. I reckon they should put him on the AFL commission and make him the state of origin, Victorian State of Origin coach. Oh, well, that I don't know about. They couldn't make it the Victorian State of Origin coach, yes, from Tasmania. But what are...what are the words they are about putting him on the commission? They tried to do that with Lee Mathews a couple of years ago and Lee finally said, no, he wanted to stay on football. And everyone thinks that the commission is so far removed from the general populace that a man like Chris Fagan would be, I think, perfect. It's a great idea. Write a column, Steve. And what are...where you put your columns these days?

39:59You and I both like great games of Rugby League. I don't like that they also run games of Rugby League. State of Origin's always fantastic. That game that the Knights turned on last weekend to make their first grand final in 25 years was extraordinary. I mean, the injury obviously cruel the feeling amongst the game. But can they win their first premiership for a quarter of a century? I love it how you and Chris talk about the brightness of sport in this rubbish world that we live in at the moment. And I watch that game and it was a fantastic sporting event. Clearies injury, which we'll go into later. Can they do it? Who knows? But I tell you what I reckon happens in sport. You need Attitude 1, Talent 2 and Tactics 3. The Knights have got a tremendous attitude. I'm not saying the Roosters haven't, but the Roosters have probably got more talent. So when it comes to big games like this, attitudes, and the whole country, other than the Roosters supporters, we'll be barricading for the younger dogs from Newcastle.

41:02Where are you going to be? We're going to be barricading for. Oh, yeah, Newcastle and their dad. Just quickly before you go. Nathan Cleary, what a class act he is. We're talking about what a class act, Fagan, is, well, how about that young boy Cleary? Well, he's a terrible event on the weekend. And everyone who follows Roby Leaghan, especially down here in Victoria, they know Ivan Cleary. He's been one of the best, if not the best in the game, for four or five years. And for him to be crowned after suffering just an horrific leg injury. To him to be crowned the Delhi and winner is just testament. You know, they didn't win on the weekend. But it's like, hey, in this bad spot you are, you are rewarded with being the best player in the competition. It was a really good Delhi-M and Cleary's a very, very, very worthy winner. All's good to see you, my friend. I talked to you, sir. I brought you Robo Robinson there. After the break, the US Secretary of War Pete Heskuth. You can't miss this. He's turned heads with this land-ladest anti-woke speech

42:04that me and my panel are going to pick a part after this. Welcome back, great to have you with us. I'm joined by our panel Tim Blair and Mark Nicholson, the duo, the great duo and the Chris Kenney Show. Now, thank God you two are on the panel tonight. Only you pair could I get to react to US Minister for War Pete Heskuth. Have a look at what he said at a training camp today. We are no longer the woke department or the weak department. Simple translation of that. No fatties, no trannies, no beardos, no weirdos, no wimps, no radicals. Just warriors. Just tough, ready, committed, truce. The war department, as you know, is colorblind, gender neutral and merit based. Tim, can you hear Richard Miles making that speech?

43:08The best speech since the opening, the opening few minutes of the great George C's got movie Patton, which also had the big American flag behind it. One of the most remarkable things about the woke era was that it swarmed the military. It did turn warriors into the various individuals described by Heskuth. So, you know, it's actually a return to normality that a war department should be full of warriors, and we're going to cop a lot of heat for it anyway for basically stating the screamingly obvious. Well, I think the supporters are going to support it. That would make a great episode of Please Explan. Yeah. Don't you think? May it be? Just turn it into an Australian version for Please Explan. He's getting rid of it. Between one nation's defensive policy. I know I'm thinking about asking if he can come on down to Victoria and we'll give him a ministerial spot. Because it's not just the Department of War and Defence. I need him on every department in Victoria. 20% is just a good start. What do you say he said out with the out with the clans in with the cowboys?

44:10It's just it's gold. The cowboys start to create. Tomb, how do you met? How would you love to see the reaction from old Joe Biden and Camel Harris after they watched that? Well, I don't think we've seen a reaction from Joe Biden in many years. I think the last reaction to the man was this was red, 2021. And it's fallen off from there. But yeah, this is going to put more heat on the Democrats leading into the next sort of election cycle in the US. They're trying right now to walk away from all the woke excesses of previous years. And it's good on Hezka Thunder and his allies and the Republican Party to keep reminding people of how crazy all of that time was. Absolutely. And look, that is going to sell so well with the Trump supporters and those midterms. Let's talk about Chris Men's Labor Premier. I think the Labor Premier of South Australia and New South Wales, if we're ever going to have a decent Labor Party federally again, one or the other of those should be rained in to go and stand as leader.

45:10Now, they probably won't do it. But you know, Peter Malin-Askas in South Australia is now going to have a Royal Commission into AI. Surely Tim, that would be an acceptable face of Labor when we go to a federal election in 18 months time. Yeah, it's funny at the moment. What we've got is a Prime Minister who's great political skill is that he can control the factions federally. That he can't control the state leaders with anywhere near as much skill, Kenny. So you've got South Australia and New South Wales both sitting off in their own paths and that doesn't look like the Prime Minister Albanese can drag them back at this point. Mark, I mean, there's a funny, well, not funny. There's an issue going on today. As of the 30th of November, Australians will no longer be able to pay their tax bill to the ATO using a credit card. This comes after months of this deliberation. But have a listen to Federal Minister for Industry.

46:10And you tell me if you can explain one word he's saying. Tim, he is trying to explain it. The surcharges is paid by the taxpayer. It's kind of a verse. You're paying taxes. The surcharges paid for by the taxpayer. What about the small business who needs a bit of flexibility? Well, well, well, a very small number of small businesses and there are many ways for, for firms to pay their bills. What? It's all waffle, mate. You're a political candidate now. And they come on. Tell me what that meant. That right there is waffle because all they want to do is the truth is we're passing on the costs to consumers and they're going to increase prices. Every cafe should have just little elbow tax for increase on prices. But I run a small business as well. And like that credit card paying for ATO stuff, that is the best way to get frequent fly points. You can ever imagine. I consider myself to be reasonably clever. I've never thought to pay my tax bill.

47:10It's brilliant credit card. It's brilliant cash flow. As you know, an elbow would have no clue about this. I said before he's never run a business. He's never put his own money on the line. He doesn't even fill his own car up with petrol now. So he would have no clue. So when a small business gets its bass statement and you might have a slower month, shouldn't that be the way you buy it? I'm gutted about this because it does. It gives you cash flow, but it's also just a small reward for being in business and taking that risk. You get a little reward. The tiniest of rewards, like an upgrade on a corner's flight. It's not even that nice to get in business. Do you want to maybe get that as a little pat on the back for having a crack running a payroll and paying your tax? I like it in business. Tim, what about this? Was your coffee cheaper this morning? No, I know if anything is going up. It's just on the credit card thing. I have two credit cards. So you can imagine how those go together. One from one from one from one. It's a symbolic relationship. I guess you'd call it. But yes, yes. Coffee costs. I live out in the bush where oddly there's an extremely advanced coffee culture.

48:17And we just took a big financial hit due to that. Yeah, for sure. That here of some poll today, Tim. 24% is the primary vote for Jess Wilson. Head stands to lead. I think you got 29% one nation from a colleague sitting here next to me. And you've got 22 on one nation. Coalition 29 Labor 24. That's sort of suggest to me. And, you know, I don't want to say this in front of Mark, but I have been saying for some time that I think we're going to have a minority coalition one nation combo come November. That at the moment would be a pretty good call. I think it also if that is the case, if the numbers drive towards that, then it's a big lesson for the conservative side of politics. You're either one on one side or you're in opposition. And let's see how that all turns out because, yeah, to be fractured at the moment is to lose to a party that hasn't deserved to be in power for decades in Victoria.

49:20Mark, I won't say what the location is for obvious reasons, but you do have a launch coming up on the weekend. Yep. And we got a beat launch. That's why me. Whatever that whatever that poll is now, 22%, 25% doesn't matter what it is. I think we're going to get 100% of the vote. Once we do this big policy launch on Saturday, it's going to blow you're going to love it of all the blocs. You're going to love it. I would love it. We're not saying where it is for obvious reasons. Tim and Mark, it was a pleasure to catch up with you both. Thank you very much. Peter Credlin's not well today. So, Jamie Rogers is filling in for her. She's up next.