The Patrick Madrid Show: September 22, 2026 - Hour 2

0:00Hi Patrick Madrid here. Thanks for listening. Check out charity mobile and prayerfully consider making them your wireless carrier. Mention offer code Patrick and get a free phone. Go to charitymobile.com. That's life! Compelling insights. Unpredictable conversations. Encouragement for your day. It's the Patrick Madrid show. Unro the radio. Yes, that's true. Yes, that's true. Hey, welcome back to ZAR 2. We only have three hours together and you can see how quickly they go by. So if you've been thinking about calling to be on the air, please call this number 888-914-9149. 914-9149. Also, we have your front receipts of the historic beatification of Archbishop Fulton Sheen. This Thursday presented by Relevant Radio in the Knights of Columbus. Father Rocky will lead us in a special presentation of the family

1:00rosary across America for the beatification mass at 1 p.m. central and none other than Drew Mariani and Brook Taylor will anchor our live coverage of the mass at 1.30 p.m. Watch the video stream this Thursday beginning at 1 p.m. central live on the Relevant Radio app. Relevant Radio Plus or the relevant radio.com website. All right. It's God bless Archbishop Fulton Sheen. Here, let's see, is an email that came in from Elliott. I knew it was here somewhere and here it is. Elliott's and he's referring to an answer I gave to a listener's question yesterday and then again today, same topic. He says, I'm wondering why you encourage the woman to attend a party in the home of a person who has Buddhist artwork in her house with the hope that bit by bit the woman could explain the Catholic faith to her. I agree that this is a good idea, but why doesn't that apply to other

2:05situations where you advise the caller or writer not to attend problematic events such as weddings, baptisms, et cetera, et cetera? Why wouldn't the Catholic person attending such events have the same opportunity again bit by bit to explain and encourage the Catholic faith? All right. I'm happy to re-explain this and here goes. Your question contained the answer, first of all, why am I, why did I say, well, let me take a step back. She wanted to know what my opinion was about whether or not she should accept this invitation for the, and I forget now, I think it was a wedding shower, bridal shower, wedding shower, wedding reception, something like that for her daughter and I guess soon to be husband. The home of the lady who offered her home graciously for this purpose happens to have some artwork. I think there was a statue and maybe some prints or something that depicted Buddha. Like if you went to a Chinese restaurant and you saw

3:10Buddha statue sitting on the the cash register counter, that kind of thing is what I gathered that she meant. So why would I encourage her to say yes to do that? That's the answer because as you put it in the next sentence, it would give her an opportunity to share the faith in Jesus with somebody who doesn't seem to have any real faith. That's why. That's the answer. And as I said, I mean, not everybody may agree with that, but I think that is a legitimate and reasonable cause to say yes because there's a purpose for it. The distinction, and it's good that you brought this up, what is the distinction? The distinction is because in the case of a Catholic who's getting re-married, let's say, let's say a divorced Catholic who's going to get re-married at the justice of the peace and is going to be Ipsophacto in an invalid marriage, that's the difference.

4:14The difference is because going to that would be celebrating something that's objectively wrong. In the case of accepting gracious hospitality from a lady who's willing to give you the use of her home, how many people would be willing to do that? Probably not too many. She's willing to give you the use of your home so that you can while you're there, shine the light of faith in Jesus to her, engage your conversation. There's nothing invalid there. There's nothing being celebrated that's objectively wrong. So that's the difference. Another example that comes to mind, the story that I've told before about a friend of mine from the time I was in high school, when I was 18 I found out because he told me that he was homosexual. He said gay because he was sort of living that lifestyle. Years later, after I, Nancy and I had had,

5:21by this time we had maybe four or five kids and he knew that we were really on a tight budget and how much money we didn't have a lot of money at all. He invited us to bring the kids to a park where there would be a big, there would be clowns and games for the kids and face painting. The reason he was so thoughtful about inviting us is because there would be a lot of free food and he knew that a free lunch for the whole family would be nice for our budget. The problem was that the circumstances were that this was a gay pride related event. So even though he wasn't suggesting that we go there to support gay pride because he knew that we don't, he was being thoughtful by saying there's going to be a lot of free food. The kids can have some fun. There's a bounce house, like that and it'll be nice because you can feed these kids and not have to pay for any of it. I had to tell him no. It was, you know, irksome to him, probably offensive to him, but I had to tell

6:26him no and the reason is because I didn't want my kids seeing things that I would then have to explain to them that they were too young to even know about. So there's another example of where the circumstances of the event could indeed meditate against saying yes because they are problematic. This scenario that the lady who wrote me the email originally does not present the same type of problematic situations. The only thing that's problematic is there's a Buddhist statue sitting there. The Buddhist statue is not going to hurt you. The Buddhist statue doesn't have demons that will jump onto you. And I'm not saying this to you personally, Elliot, because maybe this is not something that you yourself have thought of. But I know there are some other people for whom this might be something to think about that we do not live in fear of the fact that we shouldn't live in fear of the fact that so and so has a Buddhist statue in her home. Why not? Because the whole point of sharing faith in Jesus is to help people like that who need to hear

7:33the truth. So that's the distinction. And I appreciate you giving me an opportunity to make that all the clear. I hope that's helpful. Thank you. 88, 914, 914, Gail says, listening to your caller, this is from the first hour, she was talking about a man who had, he was what 74, 75, something like that, maybe a little bit older. And he was dying of terminal cancer. And he was a friend of hers and she was concerned because by knowing that he had this terminal cancer, he decided to eat a lot of sweets with the goal, apparently, of the sugar feeding the cancer. So it would hasten its progress and then kill them sooner rather than later. So that if you didn't hear that call in that discussion, that was in the first hour, that's what Gail is referring to. So Gail says, there is a phenomenon that happens to very elderly, that the only thing that takes good to them are sweets and often soft foods like pancakes and carbs. So it's hard to equate

8:34eating habits of healthy people with those who are in hospice or end of life situations. That's true. Yeah, that is certainly true. And the circumstances indeed are different. That's why I actually asked how old the gentleman was because that would put a different spin on things. Let's say he was 35 years old, married with three or four or five small kids, that's a different kind of scenario. And the motivation to eat the sweets, assuming that it wasn't just a compulsion, by way of his appetite, but to try to hasten death, that would be a different kind of scenario. But in this case, he was elderly and he already had the cancer. He was already on his way out. He just decided to, I guess, press the pedal down a little bit more. Thank you for that email I appreciate it. And then lastly here, before we go back to the phones, let's see, this is from Chris who talks about a podcast with a priest who says that a small detail about Harry Potter and training priests

9:39receive. I think what he's saying is that the priests who are going to be ecstasy received training at the Vatican and that there is some mention about Harry Potter. And that's indeed true, Chris, at least from my own understanding, having talked to a couple of these priests, not the one that you mentioned though. But especially back in the days when Harry Potter was much more prominent, it was much more talked about, I guess. And I remember Father Gabriel Amorth, who was, he made a big splash years ago when he came out with his first book called an Exorcist tells his story. And although I don't recall now, because I did read that book when it first came out, I don't recall now whether this is mentioned in that first volume, there was a subsequent volume by him. It was either in that volume or the other one. And it's entirely possible that it could have occurred in an interview that he did. But in any case, he also mentioned this and he warned against it,

10:44he warned against Harry Potter. And letting your kids read the books and the reason was because it would open a doorway in their minds about being interested in witchcraft, even though it would be benign and sort of kid friendly quote unquote at the Harry Potter level. His concern, as I recall, was that it would jumpstart an appetite for something that leads in a bad direction. And for many people winds up drawing them into the occult. So he's an exorcist who might trust, he's gone on to his eternal reward, but he's an exorcist who might trust. And one thing I liked about him was that, and this is Father Gabriel Amorth, and he too was quite elderly. So maybe it was a function of that. But I have to admit, I have to just share with you. This to me was a sign of his authenticity. He wasn't on the conference circuit. He wasn't cranking out books. I don't know if it

11:51was like pulling teeth to get the first book from him or not. I don't know. He wasn't a celebrity exorcist. He wasn't chasing the limelight. He wasn't getting all the interviews on all the podcasts and all the, you know, the substacts and all that. And that to me was a sign of authenticity. There was a almost, I don't know. And I never met him. So I never knew firsthand. I can only conjecture. But based upon my impressions, I got the impression that he wasn't not only not seeking notoriety, not seeking an audience, but he was reluctant to bring out into the open some of these things that exorcists do. And I thought that was a good sign. Now the corollary to that or the inverse of that, which I see as a red flag personally, this is just me is when an exorcist is hungry

12:58for attention, hungry for interviews and podcasts and the videos and all that. Maybe the contents okay, maybe, maybe not depends. But it goes to the question of motivation. So for me personally, just sharing here because sharing is caring. When I see some of those little red flags, I take note because old hairy legs is very tricky. And sometimes good people who are doing good things for good reasons can get tangled up in the tricks that old hairy legs likes to throw out there. So since we're on that topic, I thought I'd mention that just in passing, 88, 914, 9149, we'll go to Keith next and Illinois. Hello, Keith. Good morning, Patrick. I was in California this past, Southern California this past weekend went to a local parish and saw something that really kind of

14:03anywhere in any event. At the consecration, the priest invited all the small children in the congregation. Come up and join him on the altar. And it looks like they're all, my guess is they were 10 years older and younger. And they all gathered around him behind him on the altar. During the consecration as well as through the eucharistic prayer. And I'd never seen anything like that before and before I got my hall in an uproar about this. And you needlessly, I was wondering if that's just kind of like a local affectation or was this really kind of an abuse? Yeah, more in the latter. This is a gimmicky thing I've seen it done before. It used to be done as a matter of course by life team. I don't know if you've ever heard of life team. They were really big about 20-some years ago. Remember them? So they had a bad habit of doing that. And it got started initially by the priest who started life team. Who's no longer a priest anymore? He's

15:06out of ministry. He's out of the Catholic Church. But that's where it started. And it spread like wildfire around the country through life team. And I think many parents, you know, without really thinking about it carefully and perhaps even a lot of priests too, without really thinking carefully about it, they permitted this to happen. And one of the negative side effects is that the kids, I'll try to put in these terms. The kids became accustomed to a rock bandit mass and standing around the altar as a big group right around the ought could be 25 kids could be 100 kids. And they're standing right there cheek by jaw with the priest at the altar as he's going through the Eucharistic prayer. They came to associate the mass with that and that is not the mass. Those are incidentals that don't belong. But in any case, it I think set them up for

16:07big problems in their Catholic life later on when they would grow up and move on. And suddenly mass didn't have a rock band there. And people were not all clustered around the altar. Again, gimmicky, unnecessary. But that's what they got used to. So one of the concerns that I had, and others too, it had was that this is setting those kids up for failure in due time when they realize that's not really what the church is all about. But they like that and they want that and they had that and they don't get it now. Therefore, they stop going to mass. And that was a real danger that really began to happen. And I don't trace it solely to the issue of the life-teen mass issue. But you know what? They stop doing that. They actually, and good for them. I'm happy for them. And I praise them for doing this. They said, no, Mass. This is not the right thing to do.

17:08And some bishops were involved in encouraging them. Let's just say not to do this anymore. And they curtailed that practice, thankfully. So I know I've used the word gimmicky twice. And I think that is the best way to describe it. It's an unnecessary gimmicky thing that some people, for some reason, think is oh, isn't that cute? We're not there to see cute things at mass. It's the Holy sacrifice of the mass. Jesus at the last supper, Jesus at Calvary, Jesus as our high priest in spotless victim perpetually being offered to the Father on our behalf in the heavenly sanctuary. There's nothing cute or gimmicky about any of those things. So let's dispense with the cute gimmicky stuff and just focus on what's really important. That's always been my take on this issue of people, you know, the priest gathering kids around the altar. I've always said the same thing. But the life-teen dimension of it might give you some background. What do you think, Keith? Keith?

18:09Keith? Well, it's not the first time. Well, this is the most egregious example I've seen where we deviate from what is the traditional practice of the mass. And it always catches my attention for better or worse. And if being overly judged mental is something I continually fight, but this one really was probably the most egregious example. And again, I didn't want to fly into moral outrage as it were, but I've never seen anything like that. And how is that viewed within the church? And is that okay? Or is it just another rogue priest? It is something that the church's liturgical norms directly speak about. So things like, now this may or may not have happened at what you saw. But one of the negative side effects that often did happen, that when you have a bunch of teenagers or kids or a mixed group of people

19:13standing right there at the altar, I've seen this happen, where they begin saying the Eucharistic prayer along with the priest. Now, that is specifically forbidden by the church's liturgical directives. And the directives that deal with what happens at the altar are very clear that, you know, this is where the priest who celebrating mass stands, the deacon would stand here or the deacon would kneel at the consecration. And the lay people are in their proper place, which is in the congregation, not in the sanctuary. So there are clear guidelines and rules that pertain to this issue. Perhaps in revisions in the future, the congregation, or now they call them the die castries, in this case for sacraments and divine worship, may well more pointedly prohibit

20:14things like that. It is not permitted to ask children or anyone else to come up and gather around the altar. I don't know that there is any such explicitly stated prohibition, but there well could be in a future update on some of these liturgical norms. The bishops certainly can do that. The bishop can definitely, and I know some bishops who have done that, do not do this. You're not permitted to invite kids to come up and cluster around the altar for mass. You know, there already are typically some children or at least young people in the sanctuary in the form of altar servers. So it doesn't mean that by age you have no business being in the sanctuary, that's not what I'm suggesting. But the custom or the habit or the gimmick of gathering the kids around the altar because it's so cute and the parents are owing and on. What do you think happens? I'm asking the question rhetorically, not so much you personally keep, but just you

21:15rhetorically. What do you think will happen to the attention of the parents and the grandparents there at mass? They're going to be looking at their kids and grandkids, not focusing on what's really going on at the altar of chances are. It's another reason why this habit is not a good one to put it lightly. So I don't know what else to tell you Keith, the church doesn't want the priest to do that. Sometimes things happen that shouldn't, but I know I would avoid those masses personally. That's what I wanted to hear. Okay, thank you, but yeah, you got it. Thanks, Keith. My number is 888-914-9149 and I am here for you. If you have a question, you want to enter into the conversation, add something to the conversation, agree, disagree, not sure, call me, 888-914-9149.

22:20Hi, Patrick Madrid here. Thanks for listening to my podcast. In today's crazy world, finding companies that align with your Catholic values is a challenge. Your choice of cell phone provider matters. Cyrus and I switched to charity mobile and you should too. Enjoy excellent coverage on America's most reliable network while supporting a pro-life, pro-family company. Use offer code Patrick for a free phone. Don't miss out. Act now at charitymobile.com. Our show sponsor charity mobile is a nationwide pro-life cell phone provider that offers flip phones, smart phones, and the new wise phone or you can bring your own phone. New customers can mention Patrick for a special offer. Info at charitymobile.com slash Patrick. That's charitymobile.com slash Patrick. Are you Tuesday more like Tuesday? Just look at you rolling out of bed and getting to work like a vase. You are fierce and you are gorgeous. People are entranced just by seeing you on a street.

23:27So never forget that you are royalty. So treat yourself like the king or queen that you are. You hear that, Cyrus? Yeah, I can't unhear it. You don't have to produce a radio show. You get to produce a radio show. Well, that is true. That is absolutely true. Hey, you don't have to host a show. You get to host a show. Thank you, Lord. I love my job. Let's go to Miguel in Florida. Good morning, Miguel. Hey, Patrick, how's it going? Hey, I'm doing fine. Thank you. Thanks for asking. Good. Yeah, now I'm over here in April, Florida, but at one point I was in Michigan. I'm 28 now, but between 14 and 18, I attended life team. I didn't think anything of it, but we used to do that too.

24:28We used to go up to the altar and we'd all get around it. And during the retreats and stuff, they would put the monstrance to you, Chris. All with the front, all with the back, with the altar. And everyone would be like, singing and like, I was coming from Nicaragua. I hadn't lived here. It was the first time coming back to the United States since I was like four. So this was all new to me. So me and my brothers would sit in the back. We'd pray and the weasier were used to the rosary and stuff like that. But it was very odd. A lot of these kids would get like slain in the spirit all the time. And I'm like, how does this work? I'd be trying to get slain in the spirit too. It never happened. It was so very odd. And it just parked my ears when

25:31you mentioned life team. And the initial founder no longer being a priest or anything. I didn't know any of that. And so I'm just curious, like, what is that all about? What's the history of life team? Is it still around? Like obviously I'm not a teenager anymore. I don't know any of that. But like, what was that all about? And yeah, tell us a little more. Well, I can only tell you probably a somewhat superficial account of that. It started in Mesa, Arizona. I'm trying to remember the name of the parish. It'll come to me. People are sitting down to write me an email to tell me. But it was and it's a parish that I've spoken at before. So I know the parish. I'm just blanking on the name of it. But in any case, it started in the I'm guessing mid 80s. And it was extremely successful and began to proliferate. The priest who started it was very charismatic and very effective at drawing and, you know,

26:33kind of attracting a lot of young people and others to the parish and to the life team masses. So as I recall, it took off there and then it became a national phenomenon. And it became a company. So life team is an actual company, ministry, depending on how you want to do it. And the stated goal is a good one, if you ask me. And that is to help young people, young Catholic people encounter Jesus Christ, to understand why they believe in Jesus, why they believe in God, to grow deeper and stronger in their faith as Catholics, as followers of Jesus, to frequent the sacraments, to enter into holy marriages. I mean, all the goals that are stated by life team, if you were to go to their website, I'm sure you'd find in their, you know, statement of their mission statement or what have you, you would find these things. But so I don't have any objection whatsoever to any of those things. And it's a worthy goal. But the way it started and the

27:35way it continued for some years before this practice was suppressed was it included having the kids gather around the altar. But I think enough pressure was brought to bear that, you know, I want to say cooler heads prevail, but that's not quite the right analogy. More, enough pressure was brought to bear that that practice was curtailed. And rightfully so. So as far as like the history of life team is concerned, I would just refer you to their website. I'm sure it's life team.com or life team.org, one of the two. But there if you want the history, you'll find it there. I'm sure. But it's a good organization that is seeking to do good things, worthy goals to help young people. And it's a good thing that something that really didn't belong early on was taken care of and removed in terms of the gathering around the the altar at mass.

28:37I don't know because there's been a million years since I've ever attended a life team because it's been a million years since I had any teenagers in the house. But even they didn't really like the life team mass. It turns out we went with them a time or two. And I kind of greeted my teeth. But even my teenagers didn't really like it so they didn't want to continue going. But a lot of it had to do with the rock band, you know, that was like right there next to the altar. That maybe different from one church to another, but that was very off-putting to them as well. Now yeah, and this church that I went to, it's like that like all the time, even during the masses. Like to have the rock band and people will be throwing up their hands and stuff like that. So I guess it's just very charismatic church. I haven't gone there, obviously I don't remember Michigan anymore, but very interesting. So I guess something good came out of it, right, with them creating the program and there's still a lot of benefit. Yeah, I'm sure much good has come out of it. I have no doubt about it. And I am not in any way denigrating the good that life team can do. It's not my cup of tea liturgically.

29:43It's not something that I myself would be drawn to or was drawn to when I was younger. Didn't exist when I was a teenager, but I don't fault them for seeking to reach these young people with the gospel. That's a good thing that they're trying to do. Now thankfully, they're a piscopal advisor and others said, okay, great, but we have to stop doing some of these things that don't belong, like gathering the kids around the altar. Yeah, so do you know why the founder is no longer a Catholic priest? I do, and it's a matter of public record, but it's not a topic I want to go into on the air, but yes, I do know the background there. Gotcha. Okay. Yeah. Well, thank you, Patrick. I appreciate the insight. God bless you, young man. And how old are you now? You're a life team guy before, and what are you doing these days? Mary, father? Yep, Mary one kid, 28. Right on. Right on. Well, I'm happy for you.

30:43Thank you, Patrick. Yeah, God bless you. 88, 914, 914, we'll go to Jardano now in Gallup, New Mexico. Good morning, Jardano. Good morning, Patrick. How are you, sir? Very good. Since I got you on the line, I just want to say thanks for your work of decades past, um, familiar with your, all your books. They played no small role in my mother's conversion to the face. So thank you for all that. Praise God. Thank you. Um, I wanted to say, um, I don't know, about 15, 20 minutes ago, you had mentioned someone was talking about exorcists, and um, I don't want to gain, say, your, your wise word of caution about possible seeking notoriety. There's certainly, you know, a lot of that going on and there's, it's become very much a thing in the Catholic, you know, podcast world and all of that. However, I wanted to offer a counterpoint to that because I feel like, you know, I think it was JP two who said we live in a world that has a loss of the sense of sin. And I know that growing up, I never heard any word of caution about any

31:48of these things. And we might say that, well, it should be obvious that kids shouldn't pick up a Ouija board or, you know, watch this that or the other movie. But all those things are so inundated. Now, the teacher of 16 years, even among Catholic students and families, I see this stuff all over the place or Harry Potter is everywhere or, uh, these things that maybe should be obvious are not obvious. And so for me and my family, I feel like we've benefited a lot by exorcists going out and putting out a word of caution that we're not hearing from the pulpit and especially where they themselves are have been kind of sound in the alarm that, hey, we're seeing an increase incidence in this, that, me, other. And I feel like I and my wider family has been really helped to say, hey, wait, put the brakes on some of this stuff, look more more cautiously at some of this. So I can see both sides that, but I just wanted to mention that I, I feel there's a benefit to them coming kind of out of their anonymity and, and saying things that maybe in decades past didn't need to be said because

32:49things were obvious or less intrusive will be heard things better from the pulpit. But I've been ahead of time. I just wanted to put that out there. No, I appreciate that. And you're very thoughtful in the way you did it. So thank you for that. It's good to have different perspectives on a topic. To elaborate just a little bit more, one of the reasons why I mentioned that those are red flags is because having done a bit of, you know, study of my own, not on exorcism. I'm not suggesting that. But what are some of the, oh, I don't know, provisions or, or, um, safeguards in place that the church has? And one of them is that the, um, the exorcist should not be even known publicly that his identity, according to the USECB, is identity is to be kept confidential. And, um, there's a whole aura, I guess, of the way that exorcists are trained

33:53in Rome at the, at the school that they go to. But also, they're ongoing formation and they're being subject to the authority of their local bishop, um, includes that they should not even be publicly identified. And that the, the name of the exorcist can and should be known by the, let's say, the presbyterate of the diocese, but not for the average layperson, not for me or for you. We shouldn't know who the exorcist is. And there's a good reason for it. And that is because his work is so, uh, dangerous and so important and so lurid and so, um, inviting of attention and curiosity and things like that, that one of the, the reasons for this circumspection and prudence is that for the spiritual welfare of the people who are being served by this ministry. But also for the priest himself. Um, and I'll give you, this is just food for thought, if nothing else, just

34:56something more that you could ponder. Um, there was an organization, there is an organization of fine good organization that internationally promotes the sanctity of human life. And they've been around for a long time. They do excellent work. And at the time going back years now, this may be, I don't know, um, 15, 15, 18, 10, 20 years ago, something like that. The priest who is at the helm of this international organization was an exorcist and was engaging in exorcisms and had written a book about exorcism and its connection to abortion. And he himself, who was by all accounts, by all appearances, I had met him. I had talked to him. I had spoken at conferences with him. He was like a straight arrow and the kind of priest you'd say, wow, that guy's, he gets it. He's doing a great job.

35:58And he got trampled and tangled up in things that happened in and around these exorcisms and things that wound up getting him dismissed from ministry. Yeah, it certainly sounds like a, a hole to fall in. Indeed it does. And I don't want to go into the gory details except to say that there, to my mind, at least, was an example of what I'm talking about, even men with the best of intentions. And, they have a desire to help God's people. It's a dangerous world and all the more so because old hairy legs would love nothing more than to be able to take down exorcists. So for that reason, I hope at least my reservation, my concern, might make a little more sense. For me, it is a red flag when I see kind of exorcism going in the opposite direction with the appearance of seeking the interviews and the podcasts and the videos and

37:01that constant being out there looking for an audience to listen to them and whatnot. I think they could accomplish the goal of teaching in a much safer, more prudent way than that is my take on it. Yeah, I don't disagree with you. I think maybe assuming best intentions among all of them, perhaps they're impulse to go out and speak about these things could be alleviated if maybe we could improve the preaching about some of these things. I mentioned the teacher. I see a lot of this stuff going on and someone should address that. And if it's not the exorcism, then it should be the pastor from the pulpit. Excellent point. I disagree with that. I agree with that. And I mean, thankfully now we have the means of disseminating the necessary information. If you don't mind, I'd like to go one step further and get your reaction to it. And that is one of the things I'm also concerned about is not so much about the role of the celebrity exorcist per se. But the effect that it can have on lay people, and I've seen this happen,

38:02people even some who have called the program, who have developed an unnatural and unhealthy obsession with exorcisms and the devil and this kind of stuff to their detriment. And they become insatiably curious about these things. And I see that too as a major red flag that seems to be almost everywhere where you see this celebrity exorcist phenomenon. That too causes me great concern. Any thoughts before I have to go? Yeah, well, like you said, you know, Chordaucytosis is certainly a vice. And the devil is flashy, whereas our Lord omnipotent as he is is often in takes on that hidden glory. And sod invokes wonder the demonic invokes curiosity to the point that it can lead to obsession. I mean, I don't like that. This happened in myself for some people that I know, but Shirley can cut both ways and that danger is out there. I guess I would just end with, you know, it'd be nice to hear, I wish everyone would be turning

39:07into relevant radio, but especially the young ones necessarily are not always doing that. So it'd be nice to compensate that just more from the pulpit. I think Chris should be. I hear you. Maybe there should be part of there's some information that, hey, this stuff is on the rise. Here's the thing to look out for. Here's what we should be preaching about sometimes. I want to give, I want to hand it to you, Jordana. You're not only very well spoken, but your content is great. And I'm happy for whoever it is that you're teaching and your capacity as a teacher. You're, you've got your, you're on the right wavelength. I'll put it that way. Thank you for participating today. I appreciate that. You're right back. Our show sponsor, Charity Mobile, is a nationwide pro-life cell phone provider that offers flip phones, smartphones and the new wise phone, or you can bring your own phone. New customers can mention Patrick for a special offer. Info at

40:07charitymobile.com slash Patrick. That's charitymobile.com slash Patrick. Real life solutions. You can believe in the Patrick Madrid show on relevant radio. Great song service. Here's an email that comes in that I really appreciate. This is from Ellen. And I think this is a little bit tongue in cheek, but pointed nonetheless. Based upon your assumption of old hairy legs, why wouldn't that same rationale be used for all Catholic teachers like online priests or popular celebrity Catholic radio hosts? She must be talking about Drew. Drew is awesome. Drew is our star quarterback. Point well taken, Ellen. And you're right on target. Why wouldn't the same rationale be used for all Catholic teachers like online priests or popular quote unquote celebrity Catholic radio hosts? Point well taken. I will share this with you.

41:12I am, oh boy, not only do I agree with the point you're making, but I'll tell you, I think a lot about and often about what St. James says in James 3 verse 1, he says, let not many of you become teachers, my brethren, for you know that we who teach shall be judged with greater strictness. That resonates or maybe reverberates might be a better word for it in my brain a lot because of the, you know, to the extent there's some responsibility, you know, there's also that accountability. And I'm also well aware of what Jesus says. And this is in Luke chapter 12 beginning verse 47, everyone to whom much is given of him much will be required. And of him to whom men commit much, they will demand the more. So absolutely that this principle and this red flag thing that I was

42:17talking about extends to quote unquote celebrity teachers, radio hosts, authors, podcasters, YouTubers, you know, you name it. I mean, they're it all fits under that category to different degrees of course. But the final thing I'll mention would be that in the case of the exorcist, whereas the church does not place restrictions or you know, guidelines of that sort on people like radio hosts even priests or even bishops or professors, that kind of thing. Prudence I think should dictate the boundaries for those offices. But the church in fact does give specific guidelines and restrictions if you want to put it that way for exorcists, including that they should not even be known by name publicly outside of some unusual circumstance known to the bishop. Yes, of course, known to the

43:20presbyterate of the diocese known to those people of God whom the exorcist is serving in his ministry. But it generally should be shrouded in a veil of discretion. And that is not something that the church stipulates for bishops or priests or teachers or radio hosts or things like that. That's right. Say I do think that common sense and prudence and in particular the virtue of prudence definitely should dictate how and where those boundaries are. But it does apply nonetheless. And I thank you for connecting those dots. 88, 914, 9149. We'll go to Colin now and Ohio. Good morning, Colin. Good morning. Hey, yeah. I'm well, thanks. My question was what is the proper usage of the Iran's hand posture? Why did you see it so frequently at mass with a laity? Yeah, well, I mean, it's an ancient gesture. It's an ancient prayer form. It's probably the oldest

44:28prayer form that I'm aware of in any case. And that is not so much the Iran's position. And I'll come back to that in a minute, which is distinctive when it comes to the office of the priest at mass. I'll come back to that in a moment. But the or an oran's is just from the Latin word that means praying. And from time immemorial, the prayer gesture of somebody who's praying with his hands sort of forward from him and the palms up is a venerable custom of prayer. There's nothing wrong with it. And I don't ever want to give anyone the impression or the misimpression that I'm suggesting there's anything wrong with it's a it's a venerable practice. And it is redolent of our not only offering our prayers to the Lord, but being receptive to his response, having your hands up like that. Not everybody prays that way. You don't have to pray that way, but there's nothing wrong with praying that way as my first point. But back to the oran's position

45:31that the priest adopts at the altar, the Holy Saccharite of the Mass, this is where some confusion can set in. And that is that this is a uniquely priestly sassardotal gesture. And it is the gesture of the priest not so much with his palms upward, but rather his hands extended at a let's say a four his arms extended at a 45 degree angle elbows are bent. And the palms of his hands are not quite facing upward, but they're facing a little bit more toward each other about his wide as he is. And that is a very specific sacrificial sassardotal gesture that to use the term again is redolent of his office as priest offering sacrifice at the altar. So it has a distinctive liturgical meaning that is not something that lay people participate in. Therefore, in that context, in the context of the mass, when lay people adopt the,

46:42you know, the oran's position, there is a jarring kind of distortion, you might say, because it blurs the line that should be kept unblurred between the office of the priest and the duties of the priest and the duties in office of lay people. Outside of the mass, I have no, you know, objection to it whatsoever. But in the mass, in that context, that's where it can create even even if only in a generic way, it can add to the confusion about the distinction between the priesthood of all believers. We all share in that priesthood as by virtue of our baptism, but it's not the same as the unique sacrificial priesthood that the priest who has the sacrament of Holy orders has. And that's generally when you see somebody or, you know, a thoughtful critique of this custom, usually it's along those lines that the critique will be made. All pause. Any thoughts on

47:44that? Yeah, that was my major, that's what I noticed for a front with this, between the border of the line. It's definitely a, it doesn't seem appropriate when there's a priest there. Right. And you're right. And it's not appropriate. And this is not to suggest that it's done with malice or with, you know, bad intent or anything like that. But it's a custom that, although it may be popular with a lot of lay people, it's out of place in that context. I'm listening to maybe the tail end of what you had to say during the last call about circling the altar. What is any historical significance to that? Or? Well, at the last supper, they didn't circle the altar. What's interesting is I think the way Michelangelo portrayed the last supper was probably rather accurate, except in one detail. And that is in the ancient world, the custom was

48:48to recline at the table. And in fact, even the Latin word that Saint Jerome uses their recumbens, meaning reclined, they were reclining at the table. That was in antiquity the way you would eat dinner. You would lie on your side holding your head up with, you know, one hand. And they would eat that way. It seems extremely uncomfortable to me to try to do it that way. I've never done it that way. But they were reclining at the table. They weren't gathered around like a circular table. Also, those who are present, the disciples who are present at the last supper happened to be the 12 apostles. So the extended outer circle of disciples were not there. The bless of Virgin Mary was not there. Mary Magdalene was not there. So lay people as such were not there. It was the holy sacrifice of the mass celebrated by our high priest and victim Jesus. And in so doing, he also ordained those men, the apostles to the priesthood at the sacrifice, at that first sacrifice of

49:55the mass. So there's a uniquely priestly character to the last supper that sometimes people will, you know, they say, well, at the last supper, Jesus said, you know, take and eat, take and drink. So therefore, we should receive both the host and the precious blood. And you know, that would be an example of where it misunderstands who was present at the last supper. But anyway, I guess I'll have to leave it at that just in the interest of time. I hope that is helpful to you, Colin. Let's go to Bunny now and say Lewis. Good morning, Bunny. Good morning. My question is a little twofold. Well, it's a question and a comment, I guess. I was recently on retreat. And afterwards, I speaking with the priest and a couple of other people. And the priest made the kind of, I don't know how we got to talk about Luther. But with saying how they have the true presence or, you know, why

50:57why would we think that they don't have the true presence? Right. It's short answer to that. If I can I give you that answer? I would sure look at him. All right. We'll have to wait until after the break. So stand by Bunny and St. Louis will come back to you. The number is 88, 914, 914. We have to take a break in about 10, well, now zero seconds. And we'll come right back. Hour three is ahead and your phone calls and your emails. And who knows what else may arise in this next hour. You can be part of it by calling 88, 914, 9149. The Patrick Madrid show is the real deal. They got my stamp of approval, baby. Peace out.