The shocking truth about ‘data centers’

I'm Stephanie Hawkson, and I'm Kathy Anderson Martin, and we are two women influencing

real life.

So let's swirl.

So Stephanie, you've probably heard, I know I've heard, about these things called data

centers that are being built and developed through various parts, a lot of rural communities,

throughout, I know the mid-state here in Pennsylvania, but really throughout the country and in

other areas.

Have you heard about these things?

Unfortunately, yes, and it's the, you know, Pennsylvania is trying to be the data center

like point for the U.S. and so we are having some serious issues in Pennsylvania.

This is not isolated Pennsylvania, there are examples across the country, but as we run

to be ahead of AI internationally, this is going to be a serious part of what we all have

to deal with as we move forward.

So you have heard of them, but a lot of people have it.

I just had a copy of somebody this morning, I will say and I said, we were going to be

talking about this and she's like, what exactly are those and what's the deal about those

and, you know, professional business owners and so forth.

So I think a lot of people are aware, but a whole lot of people aren't aware.

So we're going to talk about these and we have a special guest who's been with us before,

but we'll introduce her after the after the after we start.

So my name's Kathy Anderson Martin.

And I'm Stephanie Coxen and we are two women inspiring real life.

So let's twirl.

Thank you so much for coming on Heather.

You have been a guest on our show before because you are such a wealth of knowledge.

You're big into the environment, gardening, food, everything that encompasses what we

should be doing.

And you have really dove into the data center issue for various reasons before you start

that.

And you under S under represented Heather a little bit of why do you always call me out,

Kathy?

Me call you out seriously, but anyway, I think that goes the other way.

We'll save our little cavitching for after after the show.

Heather is a master gardener.

She's a clinical researcher and does a whole lot of things and knows a lot of information.

We've had her on before talking about our food supply, gardening.

She's helps us personally about being more self-sustaining in our food and so forth.

So we're excited to have her on here because she knows about this stuff.

Yeah, she's no nonsense.

We're basically going to be scared into taking action once we're done with her.

She always scares me.

Yes.

Yes.

Hey, good things come in small packages, but sadly for me, as a crow flies, a data center

is going in on 150 acres of prime farmland, Pennsylvania, for those in the audience who

are not aware, is number nine in food production.

So this is a very scary thing for us because right now, according to a commission that

is watches our drought, currently, this is the 37th driest February on record, the 15th

driest year to date in over 132 years.

We are 99 for Pennsylvania.

We are 99 inches from normal.

So far this year, as of February 18th, so I was just going to say this is other places

in the country too.

I know a friend in Utah was her family lamenting about the lack of snow, which really affects

their summer because they depend on the snow for, you know, the runoff and to fill the

melting to refer.

So this isn't just a Pennsylvania problem, right?

Correct.

Okay.

I'm going to take the Commonwealth throughout force.

There are 34 counties in total.

11 are in drought watch, including York and Doffin here locally.

16 are in drought warning, including Cumberland, Perry and Lancaster.

And the one that scares me the most other than the one I live in is Lancaster because we

are not in the, in the country in food production because mainly of Lancaster County.

And it's one of the only ones that's not watered.

So that we haven't gotten the rain is extremely concerning.

And for those, what does that mean to put this in frame of reference?

You put Pennsylvania as such an important agriculture state, Heather, but Lancaster County

is kind of the bread basket.

And for those of you who aren't from Pennsylvania, you probably have heard of the Amish.

And you know, Amish farms and so forth, Lancaster County is where those communities reside,

which are almost all are exclusively agricultural entities.

So you know, you may not know Lancaster County if you're listening in California or Texas,

but Lancaster County is where those communities and farming communities, and it's a very rich

agricultural area.

So just putting that into contents, go ahead and Stephanie.

Yeah.

No, I was just going to say I have found all the water.

It's currently in my backyard.

So anyone interested, I can help you out.

I'm sure I have enough for an entire state back here.

So just throwing that out there.

So so we just need to work on some swales in your backyard because Stephanie's got some

new construction, but not not an unusual issue.

But I think that you know, there are a couple of questions that I have for you.

And this is how I've been putting it to people who don't understand data centers on average.

What is the average increase in your electric bill once a data center comes into the area?

Can I, before you do that, Heather, ask you to do it because like the person I talked

to today had no kind of clue.

And even I didn't, I heard it.

Yeah.

What can you explain kind of what is the data center?

Sure.

So basically data centers are the size of a Walmart or larger.

So if you think of a printable Walmart, that's the size that we're looking at.

And basically, if you think about it, it's like a farm, right?

But it doesn't farm food.

It farms servers.

So servers are stacks of towers of computer parts.

And they're basically supporting something like an Amazon or a Facebook or Grok or other

types of technology that are, and the problem is is that these stacks of servers are extremely

hot.

They generate heat.

And so what we do to, first of all, so they require a lot of energy.

So again, I'm going to ask the question on average, where these data centers have gone

into communities, what has been the average increase in the power bill?

Let's take a guess, 50%, 267%, how's it going to say, 30%, oh my word.

And the electric bill was 100 bucks a month after they go in, it's now 267.

Correct.

So, so that is 267%, I have, yes, but if you got more, that's correct, that's the average.

And so, so they use as much electricity as 50,000 homes, oh, what's, yeah, wow.

So five years, according to Bloomberg, after they're put in electricity, electricity prices

spike on an average 267%, because you've got to get that energy now to that data center.

You know that our energy infrastructure is extremely fragile as it eats.

So already in heat waves in places like California, it's not unusual to have blackouts.

And they're not going to ask them to use less power.

They're going to ask you to use less power.

So that's also true of water.

What do you think the average use of water in a data center is per year?

I would not have any clue after the electricity question.

I was going to say, I'm, I'm out.

And why is it going back to the 9th, like late 1800s?

First of all, I have no clue and why are the, I know the numbers are going to be astounding

and Stephanie's going to go again, but why are they using so much water?

So, so we have to cool these towers because they're creating, they're generating heat.

So on average, they use 500 million gallons of water a year.

And we are getting 18 on that 150 acres, not one.

Well, I think we just saw the global warming crisis.

It's, it's, it's created totally moly.

Really?

What happens to the bill?

I mean, where's the water coming from and what happens to your regular water bill at home?

Yeah.

So I'm not sure about the water bill, but the issue becomes where is the water?

Right.

A lot of that area is farmland.

Again, that is prime farmland that that is being built on is being built in the backyard of our

friends farm.

So they're very concerned about the fact that they may not have water for their cows.

And so, you know, the other thing is, is that water doesn't come back.

So it's not like it's being sucked up like biotry and then respirating out and then

coming in the cloud and falling back to the earth.

It evaporates.

So, you know, one way to do that is to use a closed loop system.

It uses less water, but it's still, they use a significant amount of water.

So on average, they, they consume up to five million gallons per day.

This is enough water for a town of 10 to 50,000 people.

Conservative estimates of water usage by data centers is at minimum 33 million gallons per

sensor per year.

And so why am I, where am I coming up with a 500 billion gallons is because, you know,

with a closed loop system, which again, a lot of the, the ordinances that are being put in together,

only 5% of that water needs to be replaced annually.

But there's also concerns about the concentration of minerals and chemicals that will be

in the water that's released from the data center.

Heather, I'm ruining the day that we invited you to come on the show.

I know.

I say founts of really scary information at the moment.

Because this is happening in my backyard.

So you, you got to get up to speed quickly.

So who owns these?

So we hear like I know a local golf course was a beautiful golf course in one of the nicest

in the area a couple years ago.

That was the first one I'd heard about.

They sold out a data centers going in and I hear this and I know, I know what you're

probably going to say, you know, first it was like, well, it'll provide a lot of jobs.

You know, this is commerce and whatever, but they do not produce a lot of jobs.

Let's talk about that.

Even the largest centers, the data shows that less than 500 jobs were created.

And most of those are just during this construction.

And what's really scary is a lot of these centers still sit empty and there is no provision

for what happens to that equipment when it goes defunct.

So how often do you place your phone and your computer?

Probably like every couple of years.

Yeah.

So that's what happens to these data centers too.

Within four or five years, all of that equipment is defunct.

What is the plan for getting rid of it?

Well, this is like solar panels and windmills.

I mean, there's there's some serious issues there that happens.

And technologies increase in a such a rate.

Like, and even when I think about that, how long will the jobs actually like the jobs

that the AI center or the data centers do need?

How long before AI is able to take over the majority of those?

Like, this just seems like not a good plan.

Yeah, I don't even know.

So I'm out, guys.

I'm out.

So the other concerns related to that is, you know, what about the taxes?

So one of the ways they sell this is, oh, well, we can, you know,

generate a lot of taxes for you locally.

But without the additional burden of having more children in schools

for example, if you had it in had houses there and that's the big, I would say beef here locally

is originally 177 houses were supposed to go there.

So they would be using water.

They would be using electricity.

They don't use anywhere close to the electricity that this thing will use.

But the reality is is that the data does not support tax revenue.

First of all, our state and their illustrious, we're in a deficit at the moment.

They have a 25 year moratorium on data centers.

So, okay, so our state's not going to be getting an additional tax revenue.

And when this went in to Texas, they estimated their loss in revenue would be 100 million per

year. They've just recently revised that to $1 billion.

They've lost a billion dollars in revenue.

Correct.

I want to point out before we continue, Heather is conservative.

Heather is a master gardener, clinical researcher like I say, but she is conservative.

So she is by no means anti-business.

She's actually pro-business, pro-capitalism, her family, her husband owns business.

So she is pure pro.

She is pointing out, so I don't want to want, you know, sometimes we get like,

oh, she's against business and development.

Not at all.

Not at all.

Absolutely not.

You're just talking about this is development that literally impacts our wallets as people and

consumers, but also our ability maybe to live and exist.

Certainly.

So the thing is, is that most businesses that go in don't have a negative impact on my water.

They don't have a negative impact on my energy.

They don't have a negative impact on my health, which we need to talk about.

But they also don't have a negative impact on my property value.

And I live in a beautiful neighborhood.

I love where I live.

I, you know, very blessed to have a lot of property.

But I am very concerned that I may not have water.

I'm very concerned.

My energy bill is going to be unaffordable.

And I am very concerned that it will affect my property value,

which has happened to other people where these have gone in.

As, you know, go ahead.

I was going to say, and I think you have to be aware and conscious of this.

I know other friends, Heather, they purposely moved to a rural community, purchased

number of acres because they wanted that lifestyle out, you know, out of the, you know,

versus a more congested area.

They just recently attended a local community community meeting because they found out they're

again, a data center is planned to go in within yards or whatever of their property.

When they went to the meeting, there were other people from the community there.

But most of the other people in the meeting had no idea about what this meant,

what it entailed.

They actually spoke up.

They even called a friend of ours who's a local legislator on the phone,

who put her on speaker phone to explain this.

You have to be aware and on top of this before the thing.

If you're getting involved, once they start building it, it's too late, right?

Correct.

So this is the other thing.

I mean, I think all of us have been very, especially pandemic brought into laser focus

about, you know, protecting our health, making sure we're eating nutritious food.

There's obviously a giant focus from the government this year on eating real food.

And, you know, the impact of these data centers because of the noise, because of the light

pollution is going to have a tremendous impact on our health.

And according to, again, to the clinical research, they show that the noise is related to

cognitive impairment, sleep disturbances, stress, anxiety, increased risk of cardiovascular

disease, gastrointestinal issues, and autoimmune issues.

Can I add to that real quickly because what I don't know that people understand is

under stressful conditions and that constant noise crates exactly what you're saying.

It actually drops your T cell production as well.

It makes you more apt to take on toxins in your environment and not release them,

which is when, you know, you typically get autoimmune issues in cancer.

Yeah, and so I'm going to need all the things that Stephanie does,

because I, you know, unless we plan to move, I mean, I'm going to be seriously impacted

in this, and I have, you know, a family member who's autoimmune compromised already.

So I'm very concerned about this, but has a gardener.

And as someone who loves nature and loves birds and loves pollinators, you know,

we know that these same things that impact human health are also going to impact them,

because certainly a good majority of our pollination right here in Pennsylvania,

437 native bees and moths and other animals that are responsible for pollination.

That noise pollution disrupts animal communication and forces them to seek new migration patterns.

So we already know from a recent article in nature that we are severely

having smaller and smaller bird vibrations.

So, unfortunately, this is going in in a very beautiful part of Pennsylvania.

This is right beside the beautiful condiguenant creek.

It is also right beside the Appalachian Trail, which brings thousands of tourists to the area,

hikers, myself, I list, my favorite place to hike in the spring.

Many birders and others that come to enjoy our wildlife.

So the impact on this from a tourism standpoint is also not to be sniffed at.

And again, you're just destroying a small angle today.

Go ahead, Kathy.

Yeah, I, again, who invited her?

That's your idea, Kathy.

Yeah, it was.

I lost my train of thought, but again, I think what tends to happen

in this kind of conversation.

You're listening from somewhere else and you're like,

boy, I'm glad I don't live in Pennsylvania.

Or you're even in a part of Pennsylvania thinking, boy, I'm glad that's not coming to my community.

Chances are, it is.

Or it will be.

Correct, Heather?

Because you can't, it's not that you just build one of these.

They're building them all over the place.

Yeah, it's the concern.

And they need a big area of land.

So, chances are it's going into farmland or undeveloped land.

It's not going in the middle of a city because there's nowhere to put a

Walmart in the middle of New York City.

So, it's going out in undeveloped and agricultural areas.

Yep.

So, in Pennsylvania, there is a way to track the data centers.

Trackdatacenters.com is the website you can go to for your community.

And then slash Pennsylvania will show you the map of where they are located.

And I mean, this looks like a Christmas tree.

The proposed right now are, it don't look so bad.

The active are terrifying.

And then the historic.

So, you can look and see and create a map for yourself of the proposed ones,

the existing ones, and the delayed and withdrawn ones.

So, you know, it's extremely important.

I've seen people try to create Facebook groups and share information and so forth.

And they're like, hey, why doesn't a lawyer just step up and do this pro bono?

Folks, we're past that.

There's no way that anybody would do all this pro bono.

But the good news is, is there are great ordinances that are out there and you

should be going and asking your local township and or city if they've got an

ordinance because if they don't, they need to be on it yesterday and start to

do best practices and pull from other areas that have been successful and

preventing these from coming in.

If you want to see something that will really scare the T-total out of you,

I encourage you to go look at the one that's in Memphis right now that is for X.

It is terrifying what they have done.

They have absolutely violated all of the air pollution standards by putting in diesel,

power generators and they're like, oh, we're using 15.

So they ran a heat sensing drone over them and actually 28 of 30 were in use.

And there have been all kinds of issues related to help in those surrounding

communities since that data center went in and there's just absolutely no one to

complain to because it's done.

And so, you know, to say that people are going to play by the rules is questionable.

But once they're in, the problem is is that if you don't have the, you know, the very strong

ordinances and I would encourage you to not just be a T-total or no work with your

townships to get in very strong policy so that it limits or discourages these developers from

doing it because they are working behind the scenes fast and furious.

So, you know, just because you aren't hearing about it doesn't mean it's not happening.

So essentially, you have to do this through your local government and this is not a state of

or a federal. So, correct. And that's really your easiest point of entry, like showing up to your

and every state's going to be different, but showing up to what your burrow meetings or township

meetings or whatever it may be city, right? That's what township county city, you need to be there.

You need to get to know these folks personally. Okay, let's get more to educate them.

We have to go to break, but I want to get more into this so people know how to do this when

we come back from break because this is important information. Hi, this is Colonel Mike from

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I'm excited, Stephanie. I mean, I think the last part was the thing I'm most excited about,

like-minded people for two days in a great city celebrating the 250th anniversary of the United

States and 10th anniversary of America Out Loud. It's a great opportunity and I'm excited. I'm

excited for the people we're going to be able to rub elbows with, Stephanie. We're going to be

really cool up there. I'm seeing and introducing some of the best speakers and great minds in America.

We are excited. They may not be so much. What we're done? Well, rubbing elbows with us.

But I'm sure we'll find people that are at our level of snarkiness so we should find some friends.

That's true. That's true. Well, we've got to get back to this extremely important topic because

really this is in the hands of each and every citizen in the U.S. At the local level, these are

your neighbors and your friends making these decisions. It's the people that you live around.

What do we do, Heather, to try to stop this? What ordinances do we need to introduce?

How do we essentially save ourselves from these data centers?

Well, I think first and foremost, you've got to stop using AI and that means

you stop using chatbots, stop using co-pilot and GROC. I think that it's made us exceptionally lazy

because a lot of times what it comes back with is a bunch of junk anyway. But roughly one

search equivalent is equivalent to half a cup of water per query. I need to write that down.

One search is equivalent to half a cup of water per query because that's how much water it takes

to cool the technology that does that search. The typical mid-sized data center is using a significant

amount of water per day, again, depending on which source you're using. Gen Z, you're the biggest

user. 35% of Gen Z uses AI chatbots to search for information. Google AI alone uses 2 billion monthly

users. You've got to stop feeding the beast. The reason they're building them is because we're

using them. That's what Steve's definitely worked up with the same time. These are being built,

again, because of the demand for AI, which I've been saying is the antichrist and everyone

yells at me, but that's what I still think. But because of the demand for AI and the supercomputing

and so forth needed, that's why these big companies like Google and Meta and so forth are the ones

driving construction of these to meet the demand for basically AI. You can find that by

doing a search using AI. Is that correct, Heather? That that's why these things are being built

because they need the power to do these super AI jobs. Exactly. And then our use of social media.

I mean, you know, GROC and other search engines that people use, co-pilot, chat GPT and others

are certainly we are more and more reliant on them instead of going out doing our own research and

so forth. And so, you know, I think first and foremost, you have to check yourself. You know,

this isn't an everybody else's problem. It's a you problem. So, you know, try not to use those

as your sources for information whenever possible because you are using a tremendous amount of water.

I feel like that's hard to do. I know from my like I'm not a big AI user, but when I do a Google

search, it automatically filters it into Google AI without without my permission or my choice,

how do we get around some of those things? I mean, I think that I, you know, again, you know,

I like to go to the source. So, I like to read journal articles and again, a lot of journals are

going online. So, this makes it a lot more difficult, but, you know, I'm big into paper because I read

and work on a screen all day long to read things, real books, what a concept. I buy a lot of books

because I like to read on paper. It also prevents information from being changed. I mean, you're

probably quite aware of movies being changed that we grew up with in childhood, even movies being

manipulated to promote certain things like, oh, I don't know, things like those little stripes

in the sky are being added to Disney movies after the fact, isn't that interesting? So, you know,

I think it's important that you get involved on the local level, work with your township to

really make zoning districts. I think we should have a zoning law that says that our precious

farmland cannot be used for warehouses and data centers. You know, we have prime farmland

in the state and someone needs to absolutely start putting in zoning regulations that that land

cannot be sold for that type of use because let's face it, it's going to create the equivalent of

18 empty, you know, in my case, 18 empty Walmart-sized buildings that will be default within 10 years.

And so then what? What's the plan for them after that? There's no, there's no zoning that prohibits

the use of that. And unfortunately, it's not my township. It's the township next to me,

but I'm going to be impacted by that. So I'm working with my township to make sure that some of

this zoning goes in so that they can't build it in my township. So that's a good, that's a good point

you bring up Heather because townships obviously borderline, you know, it's hard to tell which one

goes into the next. They're, especially if you live in like suburban communities, you know, they're

probably good area, good similar kind of formats, but it doesn't necessarily mean if this is going

near you, that it's within your local government, maybe the people that you know versus the board

of the supervisors or commissioners, a township over. So that's why you mentioned, you know, you have

to work within maybe different groups and get to know different, different groups of people who

are involved that affects you personally. Agreed. And certainly, I think again, you know, let's be,

we can't just go and yell and scream that we don't want them, but we should be putting in ordinances

to protect us from what would happen if someone buys the land. So obviously water withdrawal

limits. And what happens if they exceed that? There needs to be a severe financial penalty

if they actually, because this has been the issue in Memphis, there's nobody checking them.

Power consumption standards, you know, so again, there are going to be massive new power

lines that have already been planned and are going in. And guess what, they're paying for the

substation that it's going to be sitting on their property, but they're not paying for all the

transmission lines that are coming in, which is why we're going to have and already have tremendous

increases in our cost of power. No, it's controls. What happens if the power goes out? Well, in many

cases, they can flip the switch and turn on a generator. Is that going to be a diesel generator?

Because that makes noise. So I think that we need to set the standard. Plus, if they're putting in

things like lithium battery backup, what if it catches on fire? Those things burn out of control.

There needs to be ordinances related to the fire stations being equipped with the proper equipment

for to put out a lithium fire. So it's about protecting our standard of life. It's about protecting

the our current resources. It's about protecting the animals and water and creatures that live

there. I like to eat food. What out of three bites of food you take today was because of a bee.

And these are going to impact their life cycles. It's going to impact their rhythms because there's

going to be light on all the time, which generate effects migration patterns, for example.

You know, all of these things, and you mentioned like the animals. And as you were talking,

I was thinking, you know, I think I believe in God as the master creator designer and my

focus of life is if you do something counter to how it was designed by God,

you're going to have problems. And that's what the whole food chain and everything else. As you

mentioned, bees are responsible for one. And we've had a bee expert on here a couple a year

or two ago, Stephanie, about the importance of bees, you know, the lowly bee without them, without

bats, you know, they don't eat the insects that hurl harm the crop. These things are all created

and designed for our purpose. And when you remove it, you have famine. You have decreased food supplies.

You have water issues, you know, all of these issues when you go counter to how it was created.

And that's how I live my life. That's why I don't like the GLP ones for weight loss because when you

create, we have an elimination system by design, when you create something that keeps food stuck in

you to make you feel full, that's going to create problems. That's what I think. But this is that

example of man quote unquote being smarter than the creator. And you're going to have a problem

because you're messing with something that has been uniquely and designed for a reason. And taking

the bee or any other thing, animals, water, well, obviously, we can't survive without water.

And that's only so much. It's not like you can go create more water, you know, a people. So these

are serious, serious concerns. Again, from concern, you know, Heather, so we're all conservative.

Typically, we're pro development build all that kind of thing drill. Where are all these environmental

groups? Why are they not screaming and yelling from the rooftops about this? Well, this is interesting

because this issue is bringing together people from very, very, you know, across the political spectrum.

So I think this is is spanning beyond politics at this point. The thing is is that there just doesn't

seem to be a lot of people in our court who are listening. There are environmental groups that are

coming together. I know the National Park Service and local organizations that look after the

Appalachian Trail are very concerned about the creature's plants and animals and what impact this

is going to have. You know, there's also issues with our government swapping land, both federal and

state land, to give it to data centers. Some of these are protected pieces of land that are watershed

lands that are lands that are important for specific animals and so forth and important historically

to the states. So, you know, I think you need to be paying attention. I mean, that's the problem is,

you know, this is like a lot of things are going on in the background, but I think there are

some lawmakers who are listening. And I think one of the things that's been proposed is that there

would be a temporary moratorium on data centers in Pennsylvania to update the zoning and that

would give time for these townships to get proper ordinances in place. Conducting environmental

studies so we can understand the impact and potentially request or require buffers, both physical

as well as, you know, plant buffers and to protect our wildlife or protect and make sure they're

set back enough from things like the condiment. And then, you know, assess our grid capacity.

I mean, my understanding is we produce a lot of power and a lot of that power goes to state south

of us and we are paying additional transmission costs for those states, which is ridiculous. I'm

sorry, I, you know, you know, we, it's our power. We're generating it, but we're having to pay to

upgrade all these stations to provide additional power down to Virginia and down to DC and down to

to the mayor area. And I'm not against that. That's commerce. But what I am against is that you

should have to pay for the upgrade. You want the data center? Great news. It shouldn't just be the

substation. You should have to pay for the upgrades that are going to be necessary to prepare

or to provide power that and that should not be laid upon the citizens of Pennsylvania and it

has been. I think that is something that President Trump has said while, you know, he certainly

encourages development and so forth. I think he has said that development of these technologies,

they should be paying or they should be responsible for adding on the capacity for the needed power

versus relying on the current grid. So that is a difference, you know, versus putting it on

the backs of us that they should be, okay, you're going to build this, then you should be responsible

for developing a power source beyond just adding it to the grid, which you said from the get-go

is already volatile. Correct. And there was a very sneaky thing that happened here in Pennsylvania

where legislators were trying to make it so that local townships could not make their own

ordinances about this. No. So I can hardly believe that state would do that. This is my shock face.

So House Bill 502 would override local control of power transmission decisions. So I think that

you introduced this bill. You know, I'm not certain about that, but I think again, we need to

have our lawmakers speak to the fire and say, this is local issues. You should not be

you should not be mandating how local townships want to protect and serve their citizens and it

shouldn't be coming from up above. And, you know, so that's terribly concerning. The other thing

that I think should absolutely be eliminated is Pennsylvania statute title 72. It's the taxation

of fiscal affairs, a 9.9.31. So Pennsylvania statute to add it 72 is what was put in years ago

that gives these liability of taxes for the next 25 years. I'm sorry. But if you're coming here,

you don't get a tax break. My governor wants to spend $8 billion with a B dollars more than

he's bringing in right now. And it is completely unfair that these data centers are getting a 25

year tax break when they absolutely will cost taxpayers more money based upon our understanding

from Texas. I mean, I don't I don't want to have to say this publicly, but our governor is stupid.

Like, honestly, like he is worried about his future as running for President of the United States.

Yeah, really concerned about what I understand. He does not understand a budget or anything

else. Oh, I think he understands completely. I mean, he's trying to buy boats, let's be honest.

The reality is is that you cannot invite businesses, I own a business, you girls own business,

my husband owns a business, you're all taxpayers. But these guys get a 25 year tax break must be nice.

I think our governor, I agree with you Heather. I don't think he's dumb. I think he's

smart like a fox because of what his conditions are. Don't put down foxes like that.

Yes, they have a part in the food chain as well. But I don't think he could care less about

these things because he has his own personal ambitions and has since he started. So we cannot

rely on him protecting us. We can never rely on government to protect us if you do

God help you with that. But you know, this has to be something you take into your own hands

and be informed because you think it's not me until it's you. And that's the that's the pure,

that's what it is. I mean, it and it affects all of us because of we all like to, as you said

earlier, Heather, we all like to eat and drink water. This is life liberty pursuit of happiness.

I mean, this is really about, you know, being aware and now you're aware. So now you got to do

something, you know, getting to know your local representatives and holding them responsible

for making sure that the laws and ordinances that are going to be put in place are going to

protect your property from a property value. They're going to make sure that you have water,

make sure that you're not paying extra for power that the people who are requesting this are going

to be required to put in the appropriate level of infrastructure at their cost, not at the taxpayers

cost. And so I think that, you know, and I'm sorry. And then what happens to them when they become

obsolete? And I know we hear, oh, well, this is the long haul. This is what we're using. But I was

just at a meeting this week and someone made and I thought, well, that's a good point. We used to have,

you know, computers, the size of a room. Now that same kind of power is on your phone or your watch.

You know, so it decreases in size. So when that happens, what happens to these wall

marks that are now sitting empty with all of this equipment and what's the plan for that? So that

also should be in consideration with your townships and what kind of, if they allow it, what's the long,

what's the long game with this thing when it's obsolete?

That correct. Yeah, I think I think we need to think about that. I also think we need to when

someone goes rogue and puts this in, it does not play by the ordinance and rules. Who's going to

hold them responsible? And it needs to be in writing. It needs to be extremely punitive.

You know, all of this stuff, and this is I've become, I mean, it's all about the money.

You know, I've listened to Glenn Beck with some of these things and he's even makes this worse than

you are, Heather. Just about, you know, this is consolidating power in the hands and

information in the hands of a small group of people and small, you know, whether they are

corporate people, politicians, whomever. It's all about the money. You know, these legislators,

whether at the local level, state or federal, they are persuaded by dollars,

dollars to campaigns, dollars to their pet interests. So it's always the case. That's with,

I'm Stephanie, we've talked numerous times about pharmaceuticals. It's always follow the money.

And, you know, at the end of the day, I think a lot of these things, that's what it's about,

but it's consolidated in the hands of a few on the backs of everyone else.

And I think that's been the, you know, what we're seeing so far is the standards. So

Josh Shapiro wanted to incentivize the natives, the data centers to be better neighbors

by giving them voluntary incentives with zero enforcement. If you can't see, you can't see this,

but Heather is creatively giving us air quotes for all of these things. So I need to add that

because we can see it's Stephanie and I, but the rest of you cannot see her.

Copious use of air quotes with these things. Please continue, Heather.

No, I just, again, I think that, you know, all of that is talk. And listen, I'm all about action.

And this is not something you can sit on your laurels and do nothing about. Show up at the meetings,

give of your time, educate your neighbors, and give of your resources, put some legal

teeth behind these ordinances. And don't pull an anti-plotive where you pass it to see what's in it.

No, absolutely not. You need to show up at those meetings. They get very concerned when you're

sitting in that meeting and you come prepared with facts. But also don't just sit on your laurels

and wine and complain that I don't want a data center. None of us do. But they're here and we need

to do something to keep them accountable. And there again, I'll say this, I really do with

politicians, but give your local supervisors and local government the benefit of the doubt that

they don't have this information. They don't know this information. They're evaluating

lots of development things that come into their communities on a daily basis, things that make

our lives better. I mean, I'm always happy for a new restaurant or, you know, things that come

in retail space. And I think people should have the right and opportunity to do that. But they

may not be educated. And that may be, as you said, how they're not to go in there with gun blazing

and say, you're all stupid, but to educate them. And I think when they hear this, they may have

a different approach. Because a lot of it, I think, is done out of ignorance versus willful

desire to obliterate their communities. Do you agree or not?

I just think it's a lot to get up to speed. And I've given you what I would call the

highlight tour of some of the concerns. And the good news is, is that we have a lot of existing

data, studies, ordinances. So we're not starting from zero. And we can learn from others' mistakes.

You know, I always like to tell my teams, you know, let me tell you about the mistakes I've

made. So you can go out and make new ones. I mean, this is an opportunity for us to build and learn

because we don't want to be in a situation where we say, what could we have done?

Now is the time. You have to get involved right now. And it's a, speak up, show up, and give

if you're time and your resources. So give me those numbers again, average power,

electric bill increases 267%. Yes, after data percent. And what is the five years?

I'm yeah, within five years. Yep. And the water, the water usage is a little all over the place

because again, not every data center is the same side of okay. But we know that they use on

average about 500,000 gallons per day. 500,000 gallons per day. Correct. And every search that you're

doing equals a half a cup of water. Correct. That you're pouring into a data center. And again,

it evaporates. It's not like it, it doesn't recycle like a normal. We're not putting these

closer to the ocean or something. Just like, well, I mean, why not put in places that are cold?

I mean, to me, if it's because you're using that idea, because it generates heat, why not put it

in places that are routinely cold? I mean, that to me would seem to be a reasonable explanation.

I mean, Pennsylvania, unfortunately, is not very cool anymore in the summers.

And again, if you have trouble visualizing, because when I first turn to these, I thought,

oh, well, the great job. Why are these people fighting it a couple years ago when I heard that?

Think of, you know, since we've been working, we have the IT room. A lot of our companies are the

IT closet. A lot of times they have fans and stuff, you know, they're kind. So that's like that

times 100,000s within this one big giant Walmart with three few people working in it, just these

giant, I mean, you have an IT guy at your office. So there aren't, you know, they don't have

our IT woman. We're not discriminating. So it's this giant thing of all of those IT closets with

just a handful of people kind of operating it. It's not creating a hundred good jobs on it on a

regular basis. And I think too, we need to get a very good understanding of our water systems,

because even though these are sometimes closed-loop systems, there's really no such thing. I mean,

the reality is, is that all of whatever is being cycled out of the data center, our water

is not, our water utilities are not equipped for dealing with this highly concentrated bio solids.

And so that contaminated water is going to get right back into our aquifers, right back into our

rivers. The water here may become undrinkable. And so it's not being cleaned. It's not being built

or so being dumped. So what do we do at that point? If our water is not even, I mean, it's just

shifting everything, you know, let's say there is a data center, you know, around you. What do,

what do you do at this point? Is there anything you can do? I think that the poor business first.

Yeah, you would be forced to move, because I don't know how, you know, I mean, I have water

filtration coming into my house currently, because the water is really hard. I have no idea if this

filtration will also be able to filter out whatever particulate may be generated by the data center.

But listen, there are Pennsylvania's that are fighting back. They've pulled their resources

there by land. And they are in some ways protecting this land so we can only be used for farm land.

We've had farmers turned down very lucrative offers. God bless them, support their local farmers

and the people who are really fighting with their time and treasure to protect local communities.

Wow. You know, remember land is a limited resource. There's only so much of it.

Yeah. Hey, real quickly Heather, can you tell people how to like follow you and all that kind of

stuff? Yes, but please don't send me hate mail through your own research without AI.

I looked into this and, you know, spent hours on pulling data because listen, I live in a very

educated community and I knew that I had to call our homeowners president. I'm like, listen,

we need to get involved. And I will put together the, you know, comprehensive document with all the

data and all the links to educate our communities so they'll start to show up at these meetings.

But, you know, this is a movement. I, you know, for me, this is not political. Okay, this is about all

of us. And it really takes an educated populace to hold our government accountable. But I am the

thoughtful garter on Instagram and YouTube. We put up educational videos every week about things

you can be doing in your backyard to help pollinators. And I'm, so guard thoughtfully.com,

guard thoughtfully on, sorry on Instagram and YouTube and the thoughtful garter on Facebook.

Awesome. Thank you so much. I don't know about you, Kathy, but this was super depressing.

This was awful. And I also thought, Stephanie, while we have a lot of smart friends, I think

Heather may be our smartest friend. She's, she's on the higher curve. She brings us all, and he puts

us on the lower end of the curve. I completely agree. Yeah, it's funny. The first day I met her,

I was like, who is that girl? Because I, yeah, I mean, it was that same thought. I, I agree. She's

really on it like no other person and just, you know, I don't know. I'm, I just have no words.

I'm so worried about our society. We're going to do some follow up. We rarely add or do the same

topic, but we're going to have some more about this because it's such an important topic.

Yeah, we absolutely have to because there's so much. And, you know, here she is, you know,

the epitome of what we say every, every single week. And this is what we all need to be doing.

So we've got to learn from each other, work with each other, and wherever you are to the extent

they are able to stand up step forward. Let's see now.