The Unique Psychology of Auctioneering | Really? no Really?

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2:25No, really. Can I say something? If you're watching this episode on YouTube, can I begin with something? If you're watching this as opposed to just listening, this camera, I walk in here, I look like an adonis. I sit down in this chair, and suddenly I'm job of the hut on camera. Why is that? I know the camera adds 10 pounds. This looks like it's adding 50 pounds. What camera? What camera have you provided for me? Can I just say something? And you dressed over there like Johnny Cash in black. Why don't you get yourself a hat? You know what I love you? I love you. I love you as a best friend. 40 years? By the way, that hat with the Johnny Cash, that would be good for this episode. I'm not saying it's off brand for this episode. We'll talk about that, but the fact that you've been talking about it. Be mad, dude. You never look over. It's the same thing over. I've known you for almost 40 years at the black. The black, what can I tell you something? If you wanted to do it the way thing, you would not be served badly by wearing black. It would slim you.

3:26I'm just saying, can I say this with a gun? I know what you get your birthday. I think I know what you get your birthday. Can I? I'm on the GLS one. I go, I look, I walk down the street, people go, you look great. I sit in your focac the chair on your focac the chair. And suddenly, you told me by the way, I'm a character out of Austin Powers. What should be done at GLS two? You get it from me. I'll take it. Oh, I know what to get you for a birthday. Yeah, get me the double syringe. Giant syringe. Yeah. So today, you know what, just talk fast, because that's the way this episode is going to go. It's interesting because, especially younger generation, what jobs will exist with AI? What everything can just about be replaced and when we book this show, I thought, I don't know that this can be replaced, because it has to be done live. It's a unique skill set. And what I'm talking about is if you're out there and you have a kid or you're of college age and you don't know what you want to do for a living,

4:29there's actually a college, we're talking faster than everyone else. Yes, there is. And you know what, you've set this up beautifully. And I'm going to let your premise ride till the end of the show. Because I don't want to shoot you down right here in the beginning with AI. I can't do this. It can, well, you can talk so we can talk with, but there's auctioneering. So there's an auctioneering college. The Western, the Western college, right? Right. And we got the president. By the way, I'm not surprised. I didn't think it was the high northeast college. But the interesting thing is we're going to find out if there's actually a practical reason for talking about this or if somebody said, you know what selling needs, it's missing speed. So you've heard these guys. You know to get into college, to get into theater school, I had to audition. Do people, what if what if someone just really can't talk faster than I thought? Because my whole life, because I talk fast, everybody, you got to slow down. Sure. You got to whatever. And now I'm finding out I had some value that you could have had a marketable skill.

5:33So the fashion they do think about auctiones is everywhere. There's there's for charity. There's auction, obviously, but the art auctions are huge. And then auctions in almost every area, horses, agriculture, cars, and the excitement that it generates, the psychology appears to be that if I kind of want something for seven bucks, but you wanted to, I'm willing to pay 10. Our friend Tom was very good at it, by the way. So I had, it was brilliant. You've done celebrity auctions, right? Yeah. I've done auctions for charity, right? Yeah. And they tell me that the audience is prime for these giveaways. And then a lot of times they don't have the money for the thing and you're standing there going, that's right, two weeks in Greece starting bid, $1,700, and no one, if you had that word, that no one puts up there. Yeah, no, of course. And then what do you do? You just have to vamp and try and figure out how to get it. And then hopefully somebody comes out to you from the charity and goes, yeah, we're dropping the item this way. I'm listening to you. There's nothing I'm trying to do. I'm trying to peel the one in front of me.

6:34Yeah, that's by way, looks, no, it looks great. Is that good? Looks great. What if, looks hard? What if I swing around this? Looks horrible. What if I use it as a tray for my notes? Is that better? Is that look better? So I thought the show was about an auction. It is. It's apparently about your, your, your, your, your, I'm selling this camera and this pillow and this chair. So here's the deal. I'm fine with it. Lauren, no two shots. Anyway, um, wait, let's, let's get, I grant you a dozen. Look, don't bring them on yet. I don't look right yet to meet a person. One second, give me a second. You know, I'm trying to find a look. Smelling our first podcast, the word. You submit the segment, Lauren. I think we're in. People are not only, you know what? People are not only turning off, turning off whatever. Without a pillow, let me look. No, it looks like I'm wearing the pillow. All of it's bad. Can I, what if I, one second? What if I do this? So, Lauren, we'll be editing a lot of this. Oh, that's a little better. If I sit at the edge of my seat, that's great. You look really good. It's a really good time. That's what, you know, it's even better.

7:36What? If you lean with, I swear to God, is it the shirt? I, I, are you comfortable with me proceeding like this? Are you comfortable having your partner tonight? Can I tell you something? I'm gonna tell you something. Looking like this. Can I tell you something? Please, tell me something. I'm comfortable when you're comfortable. All right. And the other thing I'm gonna tell you is, what if I, I just get off of my hands over my stomach like father Christmas? All right, you know what? Here's what we're gonna get in. Let's bring in Karl Morrison. Karl Morrison going once. Come on, come on. I don't know. Do I hear Karl Morrison? Karl Morrison. The Western College of Alcanari. Hey, going once, going once. Hey, bit a bit a bit. By the way, you just said something. It's really interesting. Bit a biter and batter, batter. So that I want to find out. Yes. When they say going once, going twice. Yeah. What happens in between that? Is that like the warning? Well, they say it so fast. But it is, it's the warning shot. It is the warning. So let's get him on it. Mr. Karl Morrison. Yeah, we got him. Karl Morrison. Karl Morrison of the Western College of Oxygenaring. Hey, bit a bit of it. Let's say hi to Karl. Congratulations, first of all, for being the Montana rookie auctioneer of the year in 2020.

8:38And also in 2023, the Montana state auctioneer champion. So first, Phil, listen, we were talking a little about auctions. It's just in general, not the fast talking auctions, but auctions are unique psychologically, because you're trying to find them. Instead of me putting my product up at a price that I determined. This is determined by the public. And a lot of businesses do that because it's much richer. But you got art auctions. I know you do livestock and agricultural auctions. You do car, their car auctions are jewelry auctions. Talk about the psychology of an auction before we even get into the words and what you have to say, because apparently you have to process all of that stuff, especially being the president of the university in teaching it. Correct. Yeah, well, you hit a lot of points there. Let me ask this before we get into it. What's your kind of familiarity with the auctioneer presidents, or with just the auction method of marketing? And maybe some of your listeners too. Like, how familiar are they with this idea of auction if you were to get?

9:40In our world, the charity auction is a big thing. So my parents went to a school. You know, at the fundraiser of the year, the big gallery, you'd have generally have a, what do they call the auction? That's outside world. All the items are in you just write down a price. Oh, you have to sign one auction. Sign one auction. Oh, it's usually outside the main event. And then in the main event, they generally bring in somebody who is, I'm sure, not a graduate of your school, to auction off some donated items that could be trips, they could be artwork, they could be that kind of thing. So in our world, there's a lot of that. We also had on Ken Golden, who is Golden Auctions, which is all of those collectible stuff, all the sports memorabilia, and all the collectible toys, etc. So we got that. But those are time docked. Those are time. So that it's closer, closer, closer to the tension builds. You know, and you can see who's bidding against. I've been at a live stock auction. I just happened to be at a rodeo as a tourist.

10:41And they had one and I dropped in to see how that action went down. The other thing is we know somebody involved in automobile auctions. And the interesting thing that I learned from him was he said, the car that's going through may not be the car that you're that interested in as the auctioneer of the company. It's a car that's setting up a car to behind it, as far as price, because there's a psychology in the order that it shows, and the amount. So I know there's a lot of moving parts to this. There is. Okay. And it sounds like you guys are fairly familiar with auctions. It sounds like you've been to a few auctions. Some people have never been to an auction. And they might not even have a concept of it. But to answer your previous question, there is a lot that goes into it psychologically as well. And talking about the market, the catchphrase you may hear in the auction world is true price discovery, true price discovery. Because like you said, it's not a method where the seller says,

11:45hey, I want this much. And then people start to have a conversation. It really is this reverse marketing almost where the buyers and the market is actually telling the seller what the property is worth. That psychology is really huge. And like you said, it is a very broad industry. The cool thing about auction is it can be applied to any industry. Like you said, you can have automobile auctions. And you can have fundraising auctions. You can have livestock auctions. I'm friends with the lady. She does quilt auctions for all things. You know what she's so broad. Can I, I would love divorce auctions. Do I hear $10,000 for custody? Do I hear $20,000 for cut? It will make it so much easier with all the paper. She deserves 500, 500. I hear 500. Did she do this? Yeah, and I get six. We got two coffins left, funeral homes. Do I hear, do I? I mean, it's all about getting that price out, right? Yeah. That's exactly right. Yeah. And it really does come down to the assets that you're selling.

12:50One thing that seems to be a trend is good quality items sell better or tend to sell better at auctions. Lower quality items might tend to sell lower at auction than they would at a traditional. All the white show. And why do, how do you, what's your accounting for that? Is it just at a live auction, people walk up, they see it, they touch it, they smell it, and they go, this is crap and this is good or why is the job the more. True. You know, that data comes from a study. I was doing some research on this a couple of years ago. And they did some studies on like real estate auctions in Australia. And that's where my information on that comes from. But behind that, the psychology behind that, I think it is. I think when people come together and they see an item and they get excited about it, and like they say, oh, this is good. This is a good piece. I want that, right? There's that desire. And when there's competition in the room, the combination of that desire and the competition

13:55for this high quality item that people are excited about, there's some emotion behind that. And I think that that can really drive, you know, drive values. You have the unique thing of selling at that fast pace, which at first I didn't understand. But still, don't totally understand it. But let me just say, the National Auctioneers Association lists qualities that an auctioneer needs. You ready? Determination, people's skills, problem solving skills, confidence, physical durability, quick decision making, trustworthiness, adaptability, willingness to travel, and ability to research the value of merchandise. Well, with all due respect to that list, can you name the occupation of industry where they go, we don't need any of that? Yeah. But you wouldn't know that as he's doing that, he's going to have all of that skill set. Because you've got to decide when to shut up, too, right? Like when you're there or you're looking out, I don't know if you can do this. Can you look at a guy and go, oh, this guy is going to spend much more money than he anticipated today?

14:56Because I can look in his eyes and go to fish. I got to fish. Can you do that? Size somebody up there? Yeah. There's certain times, sometimes, you know, and that's kind of where, live auctions, you can capture some of that by just engaging with people a lot of times. And that's how you decide whether to end the sale or to keep going and like, keep asking for that next bid that maybe he maybe you think that he's still willing to bid once more and maybe you just need to make him laugh or make him feel engaged. And there's different things. There is a psychological element. And it seems to be cool. There's also a degree of performer or showmanship in this thing as well. Yeah. Yeah, there definitely can be. And different industries will ask different or have different expectations of that level of performance. You're familiar with the charity auction. And that's going to be much more exciting, flamboyant show like, right? Versus something like the auto industry, depending on the type of sale or livestock sale,

16:02where it truly is, it's a little more business, right? And the buyers and sellers or the buyers especially, they're experienced buyers and they're there to do business and they don't need as much of a presentation so much. They're there to conduct business and you're facilitating a conversation. You know the word auction means, or what? In Latin, which is interesting, to increase, to increase, that's to increase, which already is implied and it goes back to the room. They got it. You know, I think they sold their army Navy surplus that way. So before we get into it, you're doing it. But I want to ask about the school. Okay, but we don't have to ask about the auction, but I want to, I mean, you actually are, now did you create the school? Are you president of the school? I know you're an instructor at the school, but what else is entitled? I did not create the school. The school has a very rich history. It was actually founded in 1948 by two gentlemen named Bill Hagen and Norm Wasinski.

17:08These two gentlemen were quite the auctioneers of their time. They founded the school. There's been numerous owners or people who have served as president, I guess, for the auction school. But today, I like to say I serve as president for the school because there's been a lot of people who have made it what it is today. It's a great school. I don't think it's a great, great, great kid for you, man. So like what are the, what are the, I'm a little coy here because I did go through your syllabus a little bit and look at the school website. Okay. But you know, for the people that are listening, what is the school actually offering? What are the courses? What if I were a student at the school, what would my journey be for the most part? Yeah, that's a great question. You know, so we have, let me back up. There's some states that require a license to conduct auctioneering. Right. In the West, there's not as many states that do. The main program that we offer, we call it a pre-licensing course.

18:08And it meets the requirements for licensing and most of the states in the United States. And so essentially what that class is, though, it's kind of like a foundational level of auction instruction. And so people will that come through that class. They're going to be able to leave there and they're going to understand the bid calling aspect, which is that fast talking. We're going to talk about how, you know, we'll talk about how you build that and work with them for about a week in person to develop that chant. And then the other half of the class is online and we talk about things like marketing and auction softwares that exist out there. We talk about how to get clients and build your business and some of the legal aspects as well. So it's really all encompassing that main program that we offer. And then we also offer like specialized bid calling, like advanced kind of bid calling classes, where you can kind of hone in on certain aspects as well. And if I were taking the whole shabang, everything you had to offer, how long would I be enrolled at the school?

19:11So the class is it takes about two months. In total, it's an 85 hour class. And we have like I said, a week in person and then the online part is about the other half of that 85 hours. Gotcha. And can you scope out when a student wants to join? Obviously part of this is the chant. That's the big part, big part of it, then the psychological stuff. Can you tell if a guy's got it or not? And does anybody, they're all going to the business or I just want to learn this so I can annoy my wife? I mean, is it all about the question? There's a healthy mix, right? And the cool thing about the auction business is it's very much like an entrepreneurial kind of industry. People are like, you can kind of take it as far as you want, right? So someone who really wants to grind and work hard and hustle and you can take it as far as you want to. If that's not the case, there's some people who come and they may have a community event that

20:12they want to do like a fundraising event where they want to serve as the auctioneer for their community once, maybe twice a year and they come to school because for them that is success, right? So you kind of get to define your own success. So with the school, like if I didn't want to be a professional auctioneer necessarily, but I knew I was part of an organization and we were going to have two events a year that involved in auction. If I came to your school, what I probably wind up throwing or organizing a more successful auction does again, to how to do not just the guy, you know, accepting the bids, but do you talk about the whole setup of how to set up a successful auction? Absolutely. Yep. Yep, that's exactly it. And I would say if somebody who had never come to some sort of auction school and gained that foundational understanding of how auctions work, you know, the marketing strategies behind them, just start to finish, you will have a better result.

21:12Yeah, because even in the ones you and I go to Peter, the sort of experiential stuff that they auction off, I always go, who determined the order of this thing? Because you know, it doesn't seem to have a build. Well, because they put it, they're not so bad enough of these. It is not like they'll give me a puppy to take out. I told Jason, like a golden retriever puppy and I go out there and I try and use humor, but sometimes it's deadly because the people don't have the money to buy stuff. But I take the dog out and I go, you want this dog? We're going to start at 1,500 and don't tell me you already have a pet and your word is not going to get along with the other pets and then I stretch it out and hold them up and go, this makes a pretty good eatin too. And I'll place all this. But they're, what if you're dying? What if there's just nothing going on? Have you ever bombed? Have you ever had an auction where you just like it's Jason or me or performance? We go, bad night. Have you had an auction where you're ready to quit? Because it's just not going in. It can happen. I've had it happen once. It was a bowl sale, like livestock, you know, cattle, a bowl sale.

22:16And we opened up the first lot and nobody bid and it was their first year and it was sad. But it's a lot of things to keep going. A lot of things to keep going. To marketing, right? Like if you adequately market typically, you'll have a sale. You know, something we're still putting our house back together after the fires. And wafer continues to be our go-to source. For instance, we just got six sets of beautiful white fabric, 100% blackout curtains, because it's so hot outside. For our living room, floor-to-ceiling windows to battle this intensity, we knew they were going to cool down the room, which they do. But they're also at texture and elegance and for very little money. You'd be shocked. We also ordered some beautiful three-panel slotting closet doors. And a platform bed with a rich-looking light wood-fluted headboard and a fluted pedestal end table. I got a large handmade designer wool rug that's beautiful. A unique statement here. A leatherette, storage item, some nine-foot patio on bros.

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24:18It's not for those with 14 or fewer headache days a month. It's the number one prescribed branded chronic migraine preventive treatment. Prescription Botox is injected by your doctor. Effects of Botox may spread hours to weeks after injection causing serious symptoms. Alerture doctor right away is difficulty swallowing, speaking, breathing, eye problems, or muscle weakness can be signs of a life-threatening condition. Patients with these conditions before injection are at highest risk. Side effects may include allergic reactions, neck and injection site pain, fatigue, and headache. Alerture reactions can include rash, welts, asthma symptoms, and dizziness. Don't receive Botox if there's a skin infection. Tell your doctor your medical history, muscle or nerve conditions, including ALS, Lugeric's disease, myasthenia, gravis, or Lambert Eaton syndrome, and medications, including botchalineum toxins, as these may increase the risk of serious side effects. Why wait? Ask your doctor, visit BotoxCronicMigraine.com, or call 1-800-44 Botox to learn more.

25:22This episode is brought to you by PayPal. You know how a mom's bag has everything? Sunscreen, snacks, a stapler, the new PayPal app is like that, but for your money. Shop, pay, manager account, and earn rewards all in one place, and with purchase protection on eligible items, biometric security, and pasquies, you're protected at every step. Download the new PayPal app to get started. See PayPal.com slash protection terms. But you know, that's what's crazy, because first of all, I don't understand being an audience at a bull auction if you're not interested in buying a bull, that's first of all. And then the second thing is, I would take such advantage of that if you up and up the bidding, and nobody was bidding, I go, hell yeah, I give you five bucks. I mean, you know, what is there reserved for that or nothing?

26:25To that point, is there reserved, is there, and when you're doing a bull auction, if that's said correctly, and if I've offended anybody or that's a trigger, I'm sorry. Yeah. But is there a minimum reserve that this bull's got to go for a minimum of this, or we don't do it? There can be. Yeah, so like in our case, there was like, so that's pretty common to you'll have a reserve, and then essentially what a reserve is is basically the seller saying, I'm willing to sell this item, but not unless it brings this price or something. There's a minimum sale. So that that ruin, so the bull didn't go, were there other items after that, that you just had to pull your stuff together and go, okay, that didn't go, here we go, we got to start from scratch on the second one. We had, so what happened was, is the marketing wasn't super great, and we kind of realized, there was only a handful of people there, and we walked away. And that's, we just were like, okay, we're just going to wrap it up if you want to have a conversation. You know, I would have gone right to desperation, if the bull didn't sell, I'd go, all right,

27:29take the testicles, anybody need a cow, do we need a cow? By the way, speaking of testicles, when you're talking fresh, and hopefully we'll look there's the killer. Yeah, there's the guy walking. If you're talking fresh, there's a lot of filler words, right? Are you going great testicles? Are you saying stuff that's pushing it, like again, their experts in the audience, are you saying stuff in there that's real to sell to that guy or that audience, and then the rest is filler, or what goes on in the chat? What's in the chat, actually? Yeah, okay, we're moving into the chat. I love this. The chat is what I love about auctions. I want to wrap up one thought, though, and just to clarify, what happened to that sale is not typical of auctions. And back to the marketing, I want to emphasize what a critical piece that marketing plays in anything, but especially in the auction business. So if somebody's out looking for an auctioneer, like understanding that marketing aspect that the auction company offers, or just understanding marketing on their own,

28:33and being able to do their own marketing, marketing is a really critical piece there. So with that said, though, the chat, let's get into the chat. I like the chat. There we go. So the chat is what you're referring to, or the bid call. And we're talking about filler words, and the dub and dub is in all these things that you can't understand. And so what we really emphasize at Western College is the importance of two things. And it's rhythm and clarity. And it has nothing to do with speed, which might surprise a lot of people. But really, as the auctioneer, you're going to be in different environments, and it's going to be important to communicate with your audience, and to deliver a pleasant sound. So that rhythm piece kind of makes your communication pleasant, and the clarity piece makes it understandable. And so those two aspects really are what the chant boils down to. And those are the critical pieces.

29:34So in different settings, you might hear a different style of auctioned chant with more or less filler words depending on your audience. All right. So you have to be researched to know the non-filler words and what you're selling. Correct. Yeah, it's very important to know what assets you're selling. There is a lot of product knowledge that is very important, and buyer knowledge, like knowing the market and knowing who the market participants are. All these things are very critical. In addition to all the other things that an auctioneer needs to know. Well, when I was at the rodeo, and I was able to hear the livestock sale, what it seemed like to me is that the critical information got delivered in a little more of a typical monologue. Like, this is such a such bull from the such and such ranch. If he had any kind of prizel in the edge to him or whatnot. And then here's the weight, here's the thing, here's the age.

30:34And now we're going to start the sale. And now it's going for the tan. And now it's a bit of a bad. So it feels to me, tell me if I'm right or wrong, the critical information that the buyer needs to hear is not necessarily delivered in the chant. The chant is sort of the excitement of the bid. Right? Am I correct in separating them out like that? Yeah, I think so. So there's different types of chance. I could have a talking chant. And you could say, somebody's give $5. Would you give 10? Well, 10 is now bid. Would you give 15? Thank you. 15 is bid now 20. You can have this dialogue, the number is the critical part. So they needed to know, I'm asking $5. It's now been bid. Now I'm going to ask for $10. And the more filler that you add in there,

31:35the more difficult it can be to decipher that. But the rhythm piece and this piece where we're speeding it up creates excitement. You can have a mix though. Right? So you could start at 5. And you could start with this chant of like, I'm in any, I'm in any $5. 5 now 10, 10, 10, 10, in any 10, in any 10 bid, 10 bid, 18, and 10, 10, $10. 10, thank you. Now 15, 15, 15, I'm in any 10, right? And you kind of like mix it in and out as well. But you're right. When it is really important, the important pieces, when you're trying to have a conversation with somebody, there's different aspects that you can mix and match. And that is why. So can you give us, okay, we've built to that moment. Can you give us a longer chant that's the kind of chant that got you the championship that we can hear what that sounds like? Okay. Sure. So, so I live in Montana. And the Western residents is alive and well in Montana, at least in the auction industry.

32:37And so you're going to have more of a livestock style. It's kind of what I, what I displayed at that contest for the judges. Because back to our market and our product knowledge, this is what the judges were kind of looking for. Right. So that might have sounded something like, kind of like what you just heard. Well, we've, let's say we're, we're selling a phone. Here's a phone and we're going to sell this phone. Somebody give him a minute dollars. I'm in any time in any time in an order. Somebody give a hundred. It didn't now bond. Mon on any 100, 20, 5 minute, 18, 15, 17, 5 minute, 18, then two, 10, and then two, and then two, and then two, 10, 20, 20, 20, 5 minute, 18, 200, and 25, 15, 17, 5 minute, and then three, now give 300. Thank you now, three, 25. Something like that was probably what I pushed. If you had to push harder because you're trying to get it, would you go even faster or what would change? If you're trying, what do you mean? If you're really pushing in other words, you're trying harder to sell. You're trying harder to get the excitement out.

33:38Because that was pretty, that moved pretty well. And that's kind of cool. But is there another level to that that still exists or no? Was that pretty much it? Yeah, you could, well, what I would say is more of like, like the auto auction somewhere in between that and the more shouting, I guess, and maybe like a fundraiser auction, right? Now you go to a fundraiser auction, there's going to be somebody to give a thousand dollars. A thousand dollars is bad. Thank you. That's right, it's very extravagant. It's very, you're right, there is, so there is a level there of celebration, right? But there's kind of like this, maybe like mix at this contest setting, they want to be entertained, they want it to be pleasant to listen to, they want it to be enjoyable. They also want to see that you can conduct business. So kind of like almost like a medium ground of that, if that makes sense. And my guest, Peter, and Cole, you can back me up on this. My guess is that the thing that you were talking about and trying to see if it would affect Cole's rhythm

34:38is when the bidding is hot. Because if there are like 10 people and they're really going after each other to try and get this, you're going to have to respond, do I hear 10, 20, I got 10, 20, 12, I got 20, 20, 20, 20, 20, 20, the thing that's going to make it go faster, I imagine, is the crowd, not the, this is only the sale. Yes, so this is a really good thing to talk about. Because at Western, we kind of, we understand this philosophy, and we may vary our instructing styles just a little bit because of this. When we teach people the chant, the first thing that we teach them is what we first ask them, what's the most important thing that your bidders need to know? What price you're asking? Exactly. So that is in the form of a number, right? They need to know, I'm asking $5, or I'm asking $50, whatever it is. So we teach this chant where there is no filler words.

35:38And it literally goes like 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, 35, 40, 45. Because when the bidding is fast, you need to be able to strip all that extra out and get into business, right? So if the bids are coming that fast, it would be 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, 30, 30, 30, 35, right? There's nothing else in the way of me keeping the auction rolling. Right, it's rolling. Does that make sense? Oh, absolutely, because you don't need obstructionists. And also, other times to slow it down, or not, and how do you know, like if I'm selling something and I have you selling it, do I talk to you ahead of time so that you know when to give out, like you got to push to a certain number and then anything over that number is gravy, and that changes your attitude as far as how you sell it? Or, and how do you know when you're kind of peaking? Can you smell it ahead of time? Ha, a lot of it is just experience, right? To really see like, okay, like I, you feel the momentum of the sale.

36:41And it is, it's strange to say it like that, but it is a feel thing. In a reserve case scenario, the seller might say, hey, I would like to have this. That is going to be a conversation that we're going to have before the sale. But the seller's not going to say, okay, well, most of the time, the seller's not going to be there saying, well, okay, you should sell it now. I want you to keep asking for, from the money. Oh, yeah, you can sell it now, right? It's not going to go like that. The auctioneer, an experienced auctioneer is going to understand the crowd. They're going to read that and know when to shut it down. All right, I got a couple of questions. Let's get into the nitty gritty of this. I'm going, we were going to. Do you get paid by a set fee or by commission off the sale? Either. It really just depends on the industry. Different types of payment are more common in certain industries. It really comes down to your business structure and your business model as well.

37:42In the contract auction space, you're still your own business, but you're going to be hired as the auctioneer that's maybe behind the microphone and conducting the sale. Sometimes that auctioneer will be hired by an auction company. The auction company may take one form of payment from the consigners and the auctioneer himself may take a different form of payment from the auction company. It really just depends on all those factors. Do you personally have a preference or some combination of the two? Would you rather, just for you, if I said, come on down, we're going to do a 90-minute auction. I'm going to give you, I don't know what the prices are, forgive me if I underpay you. I'm going to give you $5,000 for the 90 minutes and you're done. Or would you rather go, no, you know what? I like what's being sold. I'd rather take a commission off of my sales.

38:46I'm pretty indifferent. I try to match whatever the industry is. In the fundraising space, it seems like most of the clients I have in that arena want more of a flat fee. Sometimes the client just wants to know this is where we're going to pay. Other times, other industries will say they can do a commission style more and I'm okay with you. I like to give the client what they need. You're back at school. I'm curious, we get a student to walk in and go, hi, my name's Carl. Why you do it? I really like to learn auctioneering. Is that, yeah, Carl, I don't think this is going to be for you. You know what I mean? Can you, it's like Carl's. You want to amatate a stutter? I'm not necessarily a Southern. Southern. Why Southern? Carl. A Southern is sweet. It's a sweet accent. It is, but he's in Montana. I know what there's. I know, but Southern auctions, those guys have to fly. Yet the triumph of Southern is it's a little, it feels a little less.

39:46It doesn't matter. But yes. But if you walk in and call the slow-talker, once you sign up, you just go, yeah, I don't think we're going to do you. Or what do you take as money? Or can take as money and say, I'll have him talking fast by Thursday. I want to tell you a story. There's a gentleman who, he was a monumental part of Western college of auctioneering. His dad was a great auctioneer. His sons are still in the business. This gentleman came to auction school. He came to Western college because he had a stutter. And he had a really hard time speaking. What he found was he loved the drills, the number drills, the tongue twisters, those things helped him with his stutter. That gentleman, he went on to be one of only, he was the first person ever to do it. Now there's one other gentleman who's done it. But there's three world-level, international-level contests in auctioneering.

40:47And he was the first ever to win all three. So you really should expand the title of the school to auctioneering and speech therapy. The competition, is it for fastest? Is it best to have a cushion? Is it the biggest sale? How do you win it? What's determined? You just got to wow the judges. That's all you got to do. There is criteria. A lot of times the criteria will vary from contest to contest. So it is good if you're going to go into a contest to try and see and find out what that criteria is. Typically it is available if you're going to contest it. You try to perform along the lines of what the judges are going to be judging you by. Right? So it's not necessarily fastest mouth wins. There's something more to it. Yeah, there typically is. Typically you'll see something about rhythm. You'll see something about clarity, which are things we already have kind of talked about.

41:49A lot of it is, there'll be something about initial stage presence and just kind of like how you conduct yourself overall. Do you conduct yourself professionally? Are you executing the sale properly? Kind of like what we talked about when you're like, what do you keep asking? Do you not? Do you stop asking for that bid? When do you stop? Just overall auction conduct like that would be a few of the things on a scorecard at a contest. Definitely. Definitely. And you know what? What already? You know, he wins. It's just a private judge. If you're seeing this, it's interesting listening to. But in seeing this, don't you immediately as soon as you meet him like him? Yes. You've got credibility. I will not even be silly about that. The minute you came on camera, we went, oh of course I like this guy. I bought immediately a smile. I'm not a great guy. The personality. I get why if you're doing it along the same lines as somebody else and it's kind of even, then I would give it to you because I like you. And is that a big part of it too that there's something doing this and they don't understand why it's

42:52not working as well? Well, maybe. I think you probably just liked me because I showed up in my car and I was like really pretty casual. No, we were concerned because we figured he's president. Is he living in his car? Really? You know, are you doing okay? No, you have a great, you just have a great winning personality. And to that point, when did you call? No, it's just you. How old were you when you went, you know what, I have a dream. I am going to be the president of the Western College of auctioneering. I mean, when does somebody or you specifically go, damn, I know what my life's direction's going to be. How does somebody go, this is my thing now. Well, I'll let you know when I get there. I don't know. You know, and back to our conversation earlier, the auction thing is it really just comes down to how hard you want to chase it and how much

43:53passion you have for it. My story is a little bit unique. I was really into baseball actually when I was growing up. I grew up in Northern California. And in the high school, I got hurt my last year in high school. And I had some expectations to go play baseball in college. But because I got hurt, I was kind of just a little disappointed with things. And so my dad was like, hey, you know, you've always kind of thought the auctioneering thing was interesting, which was true. But I hadn't ever considered it to the level that I pursued it at this point in time. But my dad basically kicked me out and was like, you're going to this school in Montana. It was just a random deal. And I got there and that's when I fell in love. I just loved the chant. And that was the start of things. There was never a point where I thought, I'm going to be the president of this school or anything like that. It just sort of evolved.

44:53And I attribute a lot of that just to the passion that I found by going to school. That I wouldn't have ever guessed it. And as part of this, it's like Jason, you know, I look at him when he gets Broadway. And I can't fathom the every night thing because I go got the redundancy of it. And he tried, he explains what that's like with a new audience every night and the energy and you're fine yourself. I get that the auction is important in a chance and important. But is it performing? Are you at first an entertainer and you just love when you're when you get up there, the feeling of that and the attention you get and the control of the room. Is it a performance? Is that what the heat is for you that I'm back? It's almost like an actor. It's a live performance. There is. There's certainly an aspect of that. When I was growing up, I was very shy and timid. And I did not like to be in front of people. But after going to auction school and then doing a few auctions, there was that that probably that feeling that actors get. I'm not an actor so I don't really know. But that adrenaline rush and just that that thriving in that environment.

45:59Being in front of people and entertaining people and you know, taking them to a place where they get to have fun. I mean, that's what it's all about. I got one more. Do you ever have a situation where a guy wins the bid and can't pay? I haven't had this happen. But it does happen. And what it does not? What then happens? Is that guy then liable of criminally in some way? I mean, because the next tie is bitter. You can't necessarily go find that guy and go, hey, you know what? It's not like a horse race where the winning horse is the squad that happened. And the second place becomes first place. How does that get resolved? You know, it's not a common thing that happens. It's common for auction years now to really do good due diligence. So when we register bidders, we get as much information as we can. And then it does make it a lot more difficult for people to be in that situation. When something like that happens, you can put the lean against their assets or things like that as well.

47:04You can take action if you need to. Sometimes, you know, if it's like a really small item, like it's a $5 item, sometimes it might not be worth going through all the legal actions that you can take. But if the auction company is doing their due diligence upfront, a lot of times they have the ability to do what they need to. And is there any kind of a device or an app or anything like that that does chart the bidding so that if a guy does default, the next tie is bitter. Could be located and offered the item? Yeah, typically, especially online, there's a lot of different software's out there and different platforms. That is a possibility. Wow. So before you go, two things. Number one is AI. He goes, he has to teach you how to do it. I don't want to say you can do it. Was AI going to take over this industry or can't? Oh, I love this. Oh, man, yeah. Wow, AI is such a great topic and a big topic right now.

48:06No, I don't believe it will. I'm not an expert. I don't have, you know, 2020 vision into the future. But I really believe that, you know, some things in the auction world may change. Technology is going to change. It's already changing. You know, 20 years ago, 30 years ago, online auctions were hardly even a thing. And now there's a lot of online auctions. It's very common. So AI will maybe change some of that. But really, what the auction years are in the business of is they're in the people relationship business. We're in the marketing business. We're in the solutions business, right? We're bringing people together to trade assets and not relationship part. You know, people like to buy and sell from people. So I always think that that relationship aspects going to be really important. And I don't have fear that AI is going to be able to replace that.

49:08I hope you're right. By the way, so the show is really no really with Jason Alexander, Peter Tilden. Can you sell it? Can you do the chant? Do you all mean to say really, no, really in my chant? Or do you want me to sell? Absolutely, yes. Well, do you want to eat? Of course. We're not going to send the bull's-hole name in your chant. Yes. For God's sake. Take aang plight, Newgen, utilize. It's really, it's actually a matter of breaking it up so it'd be really, really, really, really, really, really, no, really, really, no, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, right? Really, really, really, not made any, really, really, really, really, no, really, really, really, not made any, I don't need that many damn it at all to get them really, really, really, really, really, really, five, but now I'm five, I'm in any 5,000. I'm 5,000, now six thousand, seven thousand, really, really seven thousand to get on 8,000, I'm in that many, that nine, nine, nine, nine, nine, nine, nine, nine, nine, nine, nine, nine, really. That was our new opening theme, by the way. Throwing out Robert Stoon and we're putting in that. And you know what else it is? Well, he's on New Age, you bet. He's talking to William or, you know what I need? 5,000, they need really, really. So what I picked up in that is if I was going to sell really, really, really, I'm going

50:10to need, I'm going to need, I'm going to need, I'm going to need, I'm going to, no, I can't, my tongue doesn't go as fast as this, but I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to need, you know, but I also think he's leaving out sell. But so I remember when, when Kevin Pollock was here and he taught us how to do Jason Statham, he said first you get the gravity, you get the gravity. And then he said, you take six syllables, do you know what I mean? And you reduce it to jo mean, jo mean, jo mean. I think that's part of what you're doing. He's leaving out syllables. That's the only way. We have to have Kevin back. Well, thank man, you were joy and I mean it. You know, we've interviewed, I'm very liked, I'm, I've interviewed so many times as big you came on in within the first second like you and I get why you're such a success. And congratulations on being the Heather College. And I'm listening now who doesn't know what you want to do in the future. Yeah, if somebody wants to find more information, where do they go for the Western College? You can go online and it's what it's auction schools. Plural schools is plural auction schools dot com. You agree. I prove according to the professor.

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