Ultra Curious: Pick Your Poison

0:00Meet the Red Bull Dragonberry Emergizer. It's one of the many new drinks out now. Who knew ice cold drinks could be so fire? Try them all only at McDonald's. Hello everyone. Good news and salutations. Welcome back to another episode of the Back to the Back Podcasts. Second one. I'm your host Kyle Walker. Thank you so much for tuning in. We're in our last week of the September series. If you can believe that boy, it seems like this month just flew by. Maybe because I was out of the country at the very start of it. Entirely possible. But yeah, we're going to finish up the ultra curious series. And just in case going from road running to ultra marathoning with something that you would ever considered, hopefully this has, I don't know, maybe helped steer you in a direction maybe four or against. I don't know. It's a guy to help you. As we've

1:03talked about before, my first ultra marathon is coming up in October. It will be a 50K and it is in Kansas. So it is a flat 50K that much I do know. And then my second one is coming up in November. That is in Iowa. I probably should have seen how much I liked it and just done the Kansas one. But they got me with a holiday theme, Dolter Marathon in Iowa. Come on. How could I not? Like I had to. I had to. The metal horn me just told me I must do this race. And so I signed up for it. So I'm going to have not one but two ultra marathon by the end of 2026. Both of them are 50Ks. All right. And the reason that we're talking about that is this week's episode is pick your poison. This is how if you are a first time ultra marathoner, how you kind of decide what you're going to do. How are you going to dip your toe in? And that's what we're going to talk about today. So first when we started, we had Karen on at the beginning of this month. Hopefully you heard Karen talk

2:04about why ultra marathon's give out the belt buckles. Right. That's what we're talking about, which I thought was really cool. And then the next one is then we asked when actually changes when runners, dumb dumb road runners, as I've called us many times, actually move beyond 26.2 miles. Right. That was the second week. Last week we learned by ultra pacing, rewards, patience, restraint, and energy management. So that's what we talked about last week. And so then there's only one thing left for this week. What happens when we stop merely thinking about an ultra and actually choose one? Yeah. Because typing 50K near me into Google is how perfectly reasonable people suddenly find themselves studying elevation charts in midnight. Yeah. You got to find the right one for you. Today isn't about finding the easiest ultra marathon. It's about finding the right one for all of us. All right. So that is the central idea of this one. Distance is only one ingredient. The race around that distance matters just as

3:06much. First decision. How far beyond 26.2 do we really want to go? All right. And so the most obvious step in this is the one that I'm taking is you go from full marathon at 26.2 to the 50K. 50K about 31 miles. But we talked about it before. You can't just say, oh, that five miles difference is no big deal. Definitely a big deal. On paper, it looks manageable. Like it's only five more miles, but we've already established why those five miles can actually be sneaky. But the 50K still offers logical, it offers us a logical bridge because the training jump can be manageable. All right. Training from a full marathon to training to the ultra marathon, manageable distance and you can add a little more, but it's not crazy. The total event time is less intimidating. Let us say for argument's sake that you do a full marathon in six hours. All right. That's 26.2 miles. So you got five more. You budget in

4:10let's just say two more extra hours to go that five miles. Some people are going to be like, oh, that's on so slow. Again, you're doing the mental math, you're budgeting. Okay. So you're saying I could reasonably have my 50K metal belt buckle ribbon recognition in eight hours. So I need to start budgeting myself for eight hours of extended work, extended period period of time outside. As I said last week, and this is the one that really makes my attention when I do this race in November in Iowa, if memory serves, my 50K distance doesn't start to like 11 a.m. If memory serves, I don't start first thing in the morning. I start late morning. Okay. Well, in 11 a.m. start, budgeting eight hours in November, as we are deadheading towards the winter

5:15solstice means I'm finishing in the dark. I'm finishing in the cold dark of Iowa. You get it. That's that's a factor. That's something you got to keep in mind when you're choosing the distances. When does it start? When am I likely to end? Am I going to be hot? Am I going to be cold? Is it going to be light? Is it going to be light? Again, all stuff that we have to factor into our thinking that isn't just an automatic. It's 8 a.m. start at the 5K. No, this could be an 11 a.m. start at a 50K. So again, there's there's a lot of stuff that you got to kind of keep thinking about here. So we've talked about the training jump manageable. The total event time can be less intimidating. However, there's factors you got to take into it. We can begin learning ultra skills without committing to an all day or overnight event. Still could be all day if you're on one of the really short days of late fall early winter. So after that, then comes the 50 mile

6:15or all right. So this is not a slightly longer 50K. That is 31-ish miles to 50 miles. An additional 19 miles. I've heard people say this before. Oh, 50K to 50 miles. Yeah, 19 extra miles on top of the five in between a full and the 50K. That is a lot of extra. That is basically an extra marathon out there. So again, something to keep in mind. So it's not a slightly longer 50K. Now we're nearly doubling marathon distance. Fueling, pacing, gear, darkness, weather changes and mental management can become much bigger factors as you're looking at a 50K. Now last year, I wanted to do my first ultra, but I did not just go to a 50K. And I'm sorry, I meant to say 50 mile. I did last year, signed up for a 50. Oh, no, wait, hold on. See now I'm getting my I'm getting myself all messed up. Okay, hold on. Let me get there. All right. So all that stuff. All right. Yeah.

7:1850 mileers. What we're talking about last year. When I wanted to dip my toe in the ultra marathon world, I did not go 50K. I just straight signed up for the 50 mileer. Again, I know that's two full marathons. I wanted to say I really got in there and I really did something. Now if you're newer to the show, my 2025 was just riddled with a knee injury. It's better right now. That was me knocking on wood. If you heard any noise or if you saw that knock on wood, my knee is doing okay right now. This time last year it was not. So I did not complete my first 50 mileer, my first ultra marathon. It was signed up for it. Eight, the cost of that registration. But now this year I did not try and just go straight 50 mileer. I'm starting at the 50K. But after the 50 mileer, what comes next? The 100K and the 100 miles. These are absolutely valid goals.

8:19Maybe not for your very first unless you just like living dangerously, baby. But probably not where most ultra curious road runners need to begin. I would agree with that. Like we're not going to start there. We're not start with 100K or 100 mileer. Someday there's absolutely a day might come along. I decide I want that 100K belt buckle. I'm not saying that's impossible at all. But I can guarantee you it's not where I'm starting. All right. I am starting with the 50K at the 31 miles, not starting a 100K at 62. That 62 miles. And then keep in mind 100K, 62 miles, 100 miles is 100 miles. Like that's a lot of distance in between. So anyway, just throwing that out there. So the key question, are we choosing race because it excites us or because we feel like the distance has to sound impressive. All right. Doing a 50K excites me to say I've done one excites me.

9:20Do I think saying 50K sounds impressive? Well, no, it's not nearly as impressive as 50 miles. It's not as impressive as 100K, not as impressive as 100 miles. But the idea of having a 50K on my resume does actually excite me. Now that I technically have one very technical, with death by 5K doing the one 5K every 2 1,5 hours, 24 hours straight 31 miles total. Again, that it excites me that I have that on the resume, but I want the full blown. Okay. I don't want 24 hours to do 31 miles. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's a gimmick race. It was a whole gimmick thing. Glad I did it, but not not the the ultra I want on my resume. So there is no rule saying that our first ultra has to destroy us. Okay. The first event does not have to be mountainous. It doesn't have to be technical. It doesn't have to be remote.

10:22Doesn't have to be brutally hot. Doesn't have to be overnight. Doesn't have to be covered in mud. Doesn't have to be guarded by dragons. It doesn't have to do any of these things. We can choose something approachable. A flatter 50K with good support is still an ultra marathon. Ding, ding, ding. That's what I signed up for. Okay. So Kansas rails to trails is flat as a pancake. It is on a crushed limestone trail that used to be railroad. So it is flat as a pancake and it's just basically a big ol out circle and a back. All right. This is not ultra difficult. This is not ultra technical. This is not grab the map and compass. This is not hopping over fallen trees. This is not waiting through need deep water. This is a flat gravel trail for 31 miles. Not difficult. And I didn't want to difficult for my first.

11:24I don't want to say, oh, I conquered Barclay marathon junior. No, I don't want to do any of those things. I want a 50K and I want to do it as comfortably as possible and I want to enjoy the rest of my day. I want to live long enough to celebrate that I did 31 miles. So it doesn't have to be any of this craziness that you see and tell the people who do the craziness. It's a crazy and this great job out of you. That's not me. Okay. So completed a manageable first event does not somehow make the achievement less legitimate. We are trying to learn whether we enjoy this or not. So why kill ourselves on the first time out? All right. So making the first experience unnecessarily miserable tells us very little except that misery is indeed miserable. Right. So if you go on on your first one with the intention of suffering, you're going to suffer. And then all you learned is that you suffered. Okay. Big what? Like that's not learning. That's not deciding if you want more unless you love suffering. In which case I want to make a lot of questions about your lifestyle choices, but I'm not going to do that right now.

12:29Meet the Red Bull Dragonberry Emergized. It's one of the many new drinks out now. Who knew ice cold drinks could be so fire. Try them all only at my thumbs. So yeah, road crush gravel trail mountains mountain surface matters. So 250 Ks can have exactly the same distance and almost nothing else in common. So a road 50 K familiar footing for us, dumb dumb road runners easier pacing less technical often easier for marathoners to understand. But repetitive pavement can still beat up the body. Yeah. By the end of a full marathon, I'm usually hurting from running on all that pavement. Add extra five miles to that. Doesn't sound great. The next crushed gravel or rail trail. That's where I'll be starting. Nice middle ground softer surface, usually predictable, often relatively flat. And then can feel familiar enough for road runners without being exactly the same.

13:29Next is a non technical trail. Okay, so that is dirt, grass, rolling terrain, some roots and rocks, introduces trail skills without throwing us directly into the mountain madness. If you're a trail runner, maybe that's where you want to jump into the ultra world. I'm not a trail runner. Be the first to tell you I'm not, but it's an option. And then lastly, you have the technical trail and mountain altruists like the barkley rocks, roots, steep climbs, steep descents, potentially major weather exposure. Pace becomes far less predictable. And the question isn't which one sounds coolest. All right. Don't worry about what sounds coolest. Yeah. Does it sound awesome? Would it, would I just feel like the, the bees knees, if I did a barkley? Sure. Is that reasonable? No. Not even a little bit. It is not reasonable for me to step out of dumb, dumb road runner world and think I'm going to pull off a barkley marathon.

14:30It's not a thing that's going to happen. So train for the race we actually signed up for. So Kansas City road runner signs up for race with now 9,000 feet of climbing. No, that's not not how that's going to work. That's not what you should do. The small logistical problem where exactly are we practicing 9,000 feet of climbing every weekend? No, we're around here. I guess we, unless we go do our go half marathon over and over and over for like eight hours a day. No, that's not something we're going to do. So again, that's not the right one for someone like me to pick. All right. We can supplement stairs, treadmill incline, repeated hill loops, but specificity matters. You're still not getting that proper training in front. So if the event requires technical descending rocky footing, long climbs, we need opportunity to practice those skills. Right, which another reason doing something like that would not work out well here. So that would not be where I'd want to dip my toe in the waters. Now, would it?

15:32So choosing a first race that resemble resembles are available training environment can remove a massive variable. So for me, the one that I signed up for, I've done it before, not the distance, but I've done the trail. I've done the exact system. I know where the start line is. I've crossed that start line before when it was a different race. I know that I've done a half marathon out there. I want to say one or two times. So again, I know and I can simulate that by actually doing the trail. If I so desired. So you don't want to, you don't want to sign up for something you can't practice. That would be, I don't, that would be a recipe for disaster would it not? Of course it would. Let's see, elevation, the number, the number newcomers can accidentally ignore. So roadrunners often look at distance, start time, weather, ultra runners immediately start examining elevation gain. A 50K tells us almost nothing about difficulty without knowing the vertical gain. A flat 50K and a mountain 50K should not be treated as equivalent challenges because they're not same with races around here.

16:44A flat road race and a hilly road race. Not the same. Rock the parkway is not Argo. Argo is not rock the parkway. Rock, okay. Same distance. Very different elevation profiles. Very different finishing times for the vast majority of us as well. So questions to ask the total elevation gain of the race we're thinking about doing. Biggest individual climb. Our climbs gradual or brutally steep. Our distance run a bull. Is the climbing concentrated late in the race like the Sydney marathon where they put all the hills and second half. Our distance. I'm sorry. And because we learned this last week a hill can run. I'm sorry. Hill we can run. I can't even read my own notes. A hill we can run does not necessarily mean it's a hill we should run. And that's big in the old world is knowing when to attack the hill and when not. All right. So look at the course profile. Not just the total number number.

17:483000 feet of elevation can arrive in a very different package. Constant rolls. One massive mountain. Two major climbs climbing concentrated at the end. Course profile tells us when the race is going to ask for our resources. This connects beautifully with protect maintain spin. We talked about that last week. If you missed last week you missed protect maintain spin. But it's important. If the hardest climbing comes late spending early becomes even more dangerous. Don't want to do that. Loop course versus point to point versus an out and back. So loop courses can sound boring but they can be wonderful for a first ultra. That's absolutely right. Frequent access to your drop bag food clothing, bathrooms, crew. We repeatedly return to something familiar. Easier to troubleshoot the mental downside. We also repeatedly pass the same place where quitting would be incredibly convenient. So like I said with my first one.

18:48I'm pretty sure it's just a long out and back with a loop as you're making the turn to come back around. Okay. So that's an out and back out and back. We get to see what's coming. And then we also know exactly what we have to do again. So seeing other runners can also be encouraging which we like for an out and back. No format is automatically better. We just kind of think what works for us and what the race does. So I don't mind an out and back. I like seeing where I'm going. I like seeing where I've been. And yeah, anytime across another runner. That's really great. All right. So a loop course is what I'm going to be doing in November four miles. It is four miles around four miles around four miles around four miles around four miles around. That's what I have to do now how I get that to 31. Maybe this is where the 31 is comes in maybe I'm closer to 32. Maybe it's not quite four miles, maybe three point whatever something. But it's going to be a loop. So we've got the loop where I get to see my stuff every four miles. We also see where you can quit. Now out and back.

19:48You get to see other people coming. You can see other runners. And then of course there is the point to point. The point to point races. You have a great sense of journey. All right. I'm going on an adventure because I can't be done until I get there. So that's that's one. Every step gets us closer to a different destination. It can require more logistical planning and then fewer opportunities to access your own gear because you either let them to start line or you let them to finish line. Yeah, I'm going to see it in between. So that's that is a difficulty point to point. I would definitely venture to say is the most difficult. All right. Time events deserve consideration. Not every first ultra has to be a traditional 50 K course. There are the six hour eight hour 12 hour events that can offer another doorway. Usually that is repeated loops frequent eight stations, easy crew logistics and then less fear about becoming stranded somewhere remote. That which is good. Yeah, especially on loop. And then depending on event rules, we may determine how far we want to go within the time. So psych that is psychologically different though.

20:51I am not big on the whole six hour eight hour 12 hour thing where you just go however far you can in that time. For whatever reason, and I probably can't even really put my finger on it. It just does not sound appealing to me. It is psychologically different. Instead of I must reach mile 31. It becomes how much can reasonably accomplish in six hours. I feel like you're more inclined to take it easier at that point. And if I know I got to go 31 miles and I got to go 31 miles, if I just have to move for six hours, okay, I'll just move for six hours. Whatever I get, I get. I don't know. I can see how that. I see how it's less intimidating. I certainly see that. I also see how it's less encouraging or less motivating. It would be for me anyway. So just what I think. What do I know? But for some people, it is a fantastic introduction for others running the same loop all day, just sounds like psychological warfare. Like, oh my god, I have to do this loop again. It kind of got that way. A death by 5k. We did the same 5k every time, which was a mile and a half out and back. So mile and a half out and turn around. Mellon at back. By the end of it, I'm like, oh my god, I am so sick of this course.

21:59I am sick of seeing the same thing. I am sick of this turnaround. I'm sick of the down hill out. I'm sick of the uphill back. So yeah, I, I, I, I, I, I, but you have to know yourself. You got to know how you're motivated and how you would approach something like this. Cutoffs never judge them without context. Lesson learned during the series from listeners, a cutoff that looks generous on paper may not be generous on the actual course to the actual runners. All right, 10 hours for a flat 50k. That's potentially roomy. 10 hours for a highly technical mountain 50k entirely different conversation. All right, so again, I know we've talked about the elevation a lot and around here. The real technical mountainous stuff, not a thing, but there are people who travel out to it. There are altars everywhere and people travel to do some crazy stuff. So what you have to do is study the overall cutoffs. You have to study the intermediate cutoffs. It's not just you have to be here by here at the end.

22:59There can be spots in the middle where things close down. Roads open back up trails open back up. People can't park anymore. Your, your crew has to move and meet. There can be cutoffs within the middle of a race. Those are the intermediate cutoffs. Eight stations have closing times. People can't just stay out there indefinitely. Let's see whether we must arrive or leave by certain times at the park opens the park closes. You have to calculate approximate required average pace. And then you have to count for elevation. Eight station stops, bathroom breaks, terrain, weather. So we've talked about this stuff previously. But if you remember the back of the pack principle. Don't simply ask whether we can finish the distance. Ask whether we can finish this particular course within its rules within its time frame because that can lead to a very different conversation. Eight stations. They can make a break up first time ultra experiment, ultra marathon experience. And so you have to find out how far apart are they? How long do I have in between that I have to support myself because that changes what you have to carry with you.

24:02Are they water only? Do they have full food? Do they have electric lights? Do they have hot food? Do they have drop bags? Do they have crew access? If you're doing 100 mile or you have to have a crew to my understanding you don't just do that by your little little self. And so a race with an eight station every three to five miles is very different from one where we need to be self sufficient for 10 miles or more. We're used to an eight station every mile and I have to two miles at a road race. It is not the same in the ultra marathon world. But we still need to know do we need to carry our own hydration? Do we need to carry our own fuel our own essential gear? Never assume every eight station will have exactly what our stomach needs requires. And then required gear matters. Some races have mandatory equipment depending on the event. You might have to have some kind of hydration capacity. A vest, a bottle, a belt, whatever. Some of them and I've seen more of these. You have to have a head lamp. Death by five K you had to bring some kind of lamp with you.

25:03Now some ran without which I found interesting but I know it was listed. It was required that you have one. You might have to bring a jacket that you'll need when the temperature drops. You might need an emergency blanket. You might need a whistle. You might need to bring your own cup. You definitely want to have your phone on you or you might need some kind of specific weather gear. All these can be required. Required gear tells us something about that race though. Now doesn't it? If the mandatory gear list looks like we're being deployed into the wilderness. That may be a clue that this isn't the neighborhood five K with some extra miles. Read the race guide before registering. Not the night before the race. Yes, understing and what you're signing up for. So whether we might experience several seasons in one event. Then I'm kind of planning on this because I'm doing these in October and November in the Midwest. That can be interesting. Weather can get real interesting real quick. Altars are long enough for the environment to change during the race. You can have a cool morning. You can have a hot afternoon. You can have wind. You can have rain. You can have a cold evening. You can have darkness and then especially relevant with fall races.

26:11Research historical race day conditions. Most of these races are trying to put it on a day or in a span of weeks that will be good for the runners. Most races are not actually trying to defeat you or to mess with you or to get you to screw up somehow. They're actually not trying to. I know that sounds crazy. But you if you look at the normal history of when they do it. It might teach you a little something. So you got to ask yourself when you're looking how exposed is this course? You know, is the sun going to be beaten down on me all day? Is it pretty tree lined? How exposed am I going to be? Is there shade? Is there potential for mud? That can be a big deal. Especially if you're out there just in regular shoes running shoes. The mud might get you. Does the trail become dramatically harder after rain? That's a thing. Like it is again, go from a nice hard trail to a slip and slide. Definitely don't want that. We can't control the weather. But we can choose whether our first ultra has a history of trying to kill people with it, which is all definitely possible.

27:17The time of the year matters for your training. Race day might have beautiful October weather, but what months are you training through? All right. So spring ultra could be beautiful, but you're training in the winter. A summer ultra you got heat fall ultra. You got your long runs in the summer. And then winter ultra entirely different gearing conditions. So again, you're hopping all over between the weather. What you're actually going to run in for the event is very different could be very different to what you've trained in leading up to it. Right. Same problem. We had that same problem with marathons. So I know that's not new to any of you. How much training time can we honestly give this? I do not choose a race only because registration open. Look backward from race day. Consider your current mileage, your recent marathon fitness, your injury status recovery from other races. Then you got to worry about the other things, the family, the work, the travel, other events on the calendar. Our first ultra should fit into our life. All right. Life should not have to be detonated to fit the first ultra because if you're blowing everything up for the first ultra, then you're either going to not enjoy the ultra or you're not going to make it.

28:23And just my humble opinion. A race that requires training, we cannot realistically complete is probably the wrong race. All right. It's the wrong race at least right now. All right. So the temptation to cram. We did this last month. So we'll go real quick through it. Familiar territory from our senior series. Right. So the distance makes people nervous, nervous runners often try to solve uncertainty with more mileage. More is not always better. We cannot cram endurance without increasing risk. Pick something that gives us enough runway to train progressively. And then better to arrive slightly under trained but healthy, then brilliantly trained, but injured. Definitely a big deal. Next, the race's reputation matters. Ask other runners. Read race reports. Look at previous results. Search for course marking quality, aid station quality, organization, cut off enforcement, trail difficulty, parking, crew logistics. One huge question for newcomers.

29:24Is this race welcoming to first time ultra marathoners and back of the pack participants? That's a question that is totally legit to ask and that you will probably really want an answer to. All right. Some races proudly are that can dramatically improve our first experience. Do race results tell us anything. Look at previous finishing times. Not to compare ourselves to the other people obsessively or anything, but use them to understand the reality. If a 50 K has very few finishers over seven hours. If it has a tight cut off, if it has huge elevation, that tells us something. If another race has finished your spread from five hours to 10 hours, lots of first timers, generous cutoffs, that tells us something completely different. Results are part of the race research. All right. Check the DNF rate, but don't panic over it. All right. A high DNF rate can indicate a difficult terrain, weather, tight cutoffs, longer distances, sharing the event.

30:25The context matters in all this. We shouldn't see a scary percentage and immediately run away. But if we're looking for first ultra and have to feel disappears into the forest every year, perhaps we're going to keep on looking. Keep looking for something else. So a lot of us aren't going to do a race that talks about crews and Pacers. At least not right off the start. So we're going to we're going to shelf that conversation until another time. But that is something we'll talk about someday or crews and Pacers for these events. Let's talk about bathrooms. Yes, bathrooms. All right. We're it's worth discussing right. Road racers expect portapoddies. Allters may provide portapoddies at eight stations. They might have actual bathrooms. There might be very long stretches of nothing. All right. So you have to know the course. Carry emergency supplies if that is appropriate. And then you know, some of the wisdom from a previous episode remains emergency toilet paper weighs virtually nothing and may someday feel worth its weight and gold, which, yeah, welcome to ultra marathon. And I definitely carry the emergency toilet paper before and I shall again believe you me.

31:37Navigation and course marking another thing road runners often take for granted road race. We have barricades police cones volunteers trail ultra. We have ribbons flags signs, maybe a little confidence that you know where you're going. So you got to find out is the course famously well marked. Is there a GPX file available? Watch navigation. Is it useful? Yeah, if you have a little nav on your watch. Some do. Want running 31 miles is enough. We didn't do not need to accidentally make it 34 because we went sightseeing or just got flat lost. Next in big question here. Does the race excite us? We've done all the possible research. Now the emotional piece. All right. This matters to something about the race should make us want to train for it. And it could be the location, the course, the finisher buckle, just like the finisher metal, the community, the charity, beautiful scenery, weird race tradition, personal challenge. Training is easier when the race means something. So don't choose race purely because someone on the internet says it's easy. Stop asking what's the easiest ultra. The better question is what variables give us the best chance to learn and succeed.

32:49But really go back. Does the race excite you? Does running a 50 K actually kind of get your blood pumping and make a smile a little bit? Is it the answers? No. And if you're dreading every second of it. Again, maybe you don't want to make this jump. Perhaps our ideal first race has a 50 K distance familiar terrain, modest elevation, generous cutoff, frequent aid, strong organization, convenient logistics and a good pack of the pack reputation. That might be a far better introduction into this world, which is why I'm doing the race that I'm doing because I think all of these things are true. I the pick your poison checklist. Here we go. Before registering. All right. Before you register for this. Here's what you're going to look at. You're going to look at the distance. You're going to look at the terrain. You're going to look at the elevation gain, the course profile, the cutoffs, aid station spacing gear requirement, weather history, training season, travel requirements, crew rules. Say that three times fast drop bags, course marking, previous finishing times and race.

33:53And then you're going to ask yourself after you look at all these things. Does this race match the runner we are today, not the ultra marathon or we imagine becoming someday. Yes, someday I'm going to do the Barclay marathon. No, but I'm going to choose a course for today. Me not dream ultra Barclay marathon runner me. All right. So red flags for your first, your first ultra. We choose it only because the buckle looks amazing only because we have no idea what it is. We cannot train or anything remotely similar. The cutoff math already makes us nervous. We don't understand the required gear. We haven't looked at aid station spacing. We picked 50 miles because 50 K doesn't sound ultra enough. Ooh, that would have been me last year. That absolutely would have been me last year. We were counting on race day adrenaline to fix missing training. We already are planning to ignore the pacing strategy. We've spent an entire episode discussing, which we did. And then we have all the ultra curious alarm bells there. All those.

34:56So green flags distance feels intimidating, but reasonable training fits our calendar terrain is manageable. Cutoffs provide sustainable margin aid support is strong race. Welcome as beginners logistics are simple. We understand what gear we need. We are excited rather than merely terrified. And we can imagine finishing and thinking I want to do another one. So what success should mean for first ultra marathon? Yes, finishing is the obvious goal. That is a success, but there are other victories out there. Okay. Learning to pace. Fuelling successfully using aid stations effectively managing a low point handling new terrain, discovering what gear works, finishing healthier than expected realizing we actually enjoy ultra community or realizing we absolutely do not want to do this again. That's also useful information. That's good information to have right there. Curiosity does not require a lifelong commitment. If you want to try it once and never want to do it again, try it once and never do it again. There is nobody forcing you to do more than one.

36:03So that's that's him for today. So again, we did the buckle up. We have the same runner, different game. Slow down to go farther and now it's pick your poison. All right. You got to understand the culture. You got to understand the game. You got to understand the strategy and then you got to choose the race. And that's it. So I hope you found this helpful for me. I found a lot of it very helpful just trying to learn this world and not make a complete arse of myself once I step into it. Again, do I think I'm ever going to go over 50k boy, howdy, not likely, not likely, but I'll have to at least maybe it's something I want to mix in there once or twice a year. I hope it's enjoyable. And honestly, I think it is. And again, just this is me, my opinion, not based on any fact and I'm sorry I'm running long. I almost see this as being less stressful than a full marathon. I do because of a lot of things we talked about. I'm not worried about holding up the course. I'm not worried about the cops who aren't blocking the roads. I'm not worried about the spectators who are watching. I'm not worried about the sweep truck. I'm not worried about any of these things. I'm going to go out there to this 50k. I'm going to handle it at my pace. My pace is not the cutoffs are totally cool.

37:21I'm just going to have to adjust to something else. I don't know if there's a big problem. But this just feels less stressful. More laid back. The older community is a laid back community. Very helpful support of the community from all I hear. Don't have a lot of first-hand experience with it. But I can go out there and look the fast people are going to do the fast people things. And I'm going to go and I'm going to do the my people things. And I think I'm going to be fine with that. I don't know. Maybe I'm wrong. But I am actually looking forward to this. I'm looking forward to a laid back approach. I'm looking forward to going out there and not bust in my hump for as long as I can until I can't anymore. And then walking to just survive the rest. I'm looking forward to try and be strategic pacing all the way through. Finish your race in as best shape as I can. And then just evaluate. Again, first time I'm learning. It's a complete learning experience in October. That's all I'm doing is fact finding. Just gathering information. Can't wait. So that's it. I will see you tomorrow at St. Joe Half Marathon up in St. Joe, Missouri.

38:28Hilly course. Hopefully nice day. Let's go get her done and see what happens. And then that's it. No race on Sunday and then back Monday with a new episode. So that's going to do it for this week's episode of the Back the Back podcast. Second win concludes our Alter Curious series. Hope you enjoyed it. Everyone have a safe week of training and we will see you next week. .