USA U20 Assistant Coach Marcel Brache on Junior World Championship & Developing US Rugby Pathways

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1:00The New LinkedIn Hiring Pro can't undo your last tire, the no show. Who set you back because they didn't show up on day one or day two or ever again? And now your product launch has delayed because you're talking to alien abduction podcasters to track them down. But LinkedIn Hiring Pro can help make sure you're next hire six. In fact, businesses who use LinkedIn are 24% less likely to reopen a role in the next 12 months. Higher write the first time with LinkedIn Hiring Pro. Post a free job today at LinkedIn dot com slash quality. I'm fortunate to be at a place where kids want to play at U12 and U14 and U16. And again, it's just can we just continue to expose them with the right volunteers and the right coaches and continue to make sure that they are continuing to love the game for the reason that they are. And that the talent will continue to be nurtured and shaped. But is the love to play the game still there?

2:02And that's why I couldn't stress more. I'm important is for us to continue making sure that I'll expose it to allowing coaches the development and referees that develop in the thinking because our game needs as many of those good coaches and referees as possible in order for our players to want to stand again. Welcome to US rugby happy hour unfiltered interviews with the biggest names in American rugby. The Chicago Rounds cap off in public season. I'm T. U.S.I. My history in Paris. USA rugby is heading to Australia. Get ready. Pour yourself a drink. Pull up a chair. Let's go. Hello, welcome to US rugby happy hour. John Fist Patrick. How are you? I feel like I haven't seen you in nearly a day. I'm doing good in just for the record. This is not read for Canada. This is read for the Washington Capitol. I just want to make that clear. Wrong sport. We are. We are. Same amount of physicality I believe, but wrong sport.

3:02Just. I can show just I didn't lose a bet. From last weekend just you know. Copy copy. Well, hey, just in a minute or two here, we have Marseille Brocky former US Eagle involved in the pathways program with USA rugby now. I think it's going to be so much fun to catch up with in the spin-off bits. We spoke to him. Find out what he's up to and talk more about the pathways programs. I know a lot of people are very much interested in that. Fitsy, you're kind of involved in the pathway programs and we're talking the early part of pathways because you coach youth rugby. Do you think you have something you can actually teach Marseille? The last time I saw Marseille Brocky was last summer, it was at mirror coast high school I believe for a youth rugby tournament and it's the only time I'd probably ever be on a few with Marseille playing rugby. But it was fun. If I can teach anything rugby wise, probably not. I think anyone who coaches sports particularly five and six year olds, patience, patience,

4:06patience and coffee. I'm going to feel coaches. Let's let's find out here in a second if he actually coaches any kids. Coffee. A part of this or two. All right, Lister's please like, follow and subscribe to the podcast or leave us a comment in the YouTube section or in the podcast section as well. Fitsy is that time our jingle department has written a doozy. There he is. Let's play out a little bit. Hello, sir.

5:07How are you? I'm so I'm so good right now. I was, yeah, I think I was just above average earlier and now I am flying. I'm absolutely fine. Boys, you took the time to write me a song. You got in the production studio. You know, you got some great vocalists to come in and you know, probably pay them way too much money to talk about me. Oh, yeah. We too much. Yeah, we get a matter of fact, I'm behind my mortgage payments because we pay them so much. Yeah. Marcel, so good to see you. Man, it's been a while. I think the last time you've been on the show was way back in 22. You and I talked post game in Chicago after the MLR finals. So good to see you. Man, what are you up to? Yeah, thanks so much guys. It's really good to see you both. John was obviously good to see you a few months ago now. You know, after quite an industrious day of supporting on the sidelines of our young

6:08ones. But yeah, it's been good guys. I've just sort of been taking along with some community foundation work just here in San Diego. And as you mentioned earlier, just returned what seems like about a month ago now, maybe just longer from Georgia where I was incredibly humbling experience to join the U20 group on the journey to the junior world championship. And yeah, what an experience. And so they are always remained there fondly. It would definitely want to talk about all that here in a second. But before we do that, are you still really tuned in how the main vehicles have been doing the women as well? Are you up at the wee hours and screaming at the TV? Yeah, look, we're all invested onto it. We're also in so much love and care and investment from support that I still, and now my young

7:21boys have, you know, four of the Eagles, men's, women's, sevens, you know, whatever it is, you know, we just want to, we love rugby and we love our national team so much that we're on right with here, and diving in what they're way we can support. And that starts at the ground level, doesn't it, John? And you know, developing the love for the game with our young ones and, you know, their friends and, you know, just hopefully that turns into more development and more future vehicles in the future. So I want to dive into pathways in just a moment there. But first, let's start, as you just mentioned there, I guess we're the pathway really all against trailhead, if you will, and that is, that is youth rugby. You mentioned your base kind of, what just in the San Diego region, you have a few young

8:22ones playing, just give the, or listeners a scope of the parental involvement you have so far with your kids playing. Yeah, my oldest, where's to, he had just a completely his first real season of flag rugby. So he played through the winter with the dragons from North County and it was an incredible experience into not only his introduction to the game, which, you know, we played all types of different versions of rugby, but I think it was his first real organised team experience, which was so special to see. And obviously, as someone who has spent a lot of time in the game through growing up with it and, you know, playing it in schools and then being able to thankfully, or incredibly fortunate to call it a game, you sort of see it from first down how it's able to be

9:27done, you know. And it goes without saying that, you know, in the United States, it does far beyond just putting on the same colour clothes and a couple of flags and going on a field. You really see the ins and outs of what it takes to put on events how important and how special the volunteers and coaches are. I'm very fortunate we are as parents to be in positions to take our kids to these events and, ultimately, share experiences with our kids as they learn this great game. So yeah, my oldest just finished his first season in the spring and my youngest was, you know, an unbelievable support on the sidelines for his older brother, itching to try and get out there as a three-year-old, but, you know, at the time we'll meet us all when we get finally a playoff first game of rugby. So I help coach in the L.A.U. and the program your kids are with and involved with.

10:29It's great program. Everything that I've seen and interacted with the staff and it's just really well-run and the number of players on all the different teams is so awesome to see. I guess Marcel, how did you get your kids involved? Was it something that you encourage them because of your playing experience or they saw you and they're like, hey, I want to play this and what was that like? Yeah, it was, I suppose it's just my boys were, I was very fortunate that my boys were an age just still want to come and watch the final a couple years of my career. I'm obviously, you know, in my youngest, for my youngest part of you, he had no choice really. He sort of just had to tag along. But, you know, they, it's always been great experiences in the M.R.L.A. You know, he said what you wanted. They always, you know, worked incredibly hard to make the game.

11:30The experience was really special for families and kids and my kids were fortunate in that they were skills, clinics, ad legion used to put on all types of entertainment and fun things for all ages. So when they came to the rugby games, you know, the game itself was one of the minor things for them that they were able to do with and with those skills, clinics and experiences to playing the game. My kids really enjoyed it. They loved meeting other kids. They loved playing the game because we would play some, some pick up rugby in the back yard or, you know, go to a local park and just play pick up rugby, just three of us or just myself and my oldest boy. So that was his real exposure and then when it came time to see if he was interested because it was his first organised sporting team really was when registrations opened and we sort of just posed the question to him and he was interested and so we signed him up and just sort of went from there really.

12:33So yeah, you know, for West, he's always expressed some interest in the game, you know, whether it's just kicking a rugby ball or passing or, you know, it's just time together that we would do and then just trying to find that those opportunities for him to really see if it's something that he wants to continue showing interest in and, you know, fortunately he did show some interest. I'm sure you know John, I'm in ball, it's a really, really cool experience seeing someone, you know, especially someone as close as your own child to sort of pick up any sport little on the sport that you thought that you were right at for a few years. So, what, you've been to California for a few years now. Arguably has probably the best youth system in the country. I mean, you can, you can look at other places in the country, also say, let's do it, they're doing really well. But what is it that makes California rugby special?

13:35Why has it been a hotbed for kids and moving up? Is it the organizations like your kids, both your kids play for? Is it large Polynesian demographic? What do you think it is? Yeah, I think it's all those things. I think firstly, and it's quite a weird one to say is I think just like the weather, the weather just allows for that. I don't know. I just know that, you know, we're fortunate to play outside for the majority, if not the whole year. I think the worst case that you'd probably have here on the worst coast is that it's wet and, you know, windy. So, especially, and I'm speaking predominantly about Southern California. I think all those things that you mentioned play a good part of it, but I think the foundation of it is when you think about it, like it's just a, it can, if you want it to be an all-years round thing

14:36that you can continue to do outside. The hotbed about it is that, yeah, we have, there's good youth club systems all through Southern California. And then, you know, the case of on-back, by one shore, Egorok. Yeah. Santa Monica, there's, you know, good men's clubs as well that, you know, I still incredibly important. Sort of always open to new players coming through and making sure that the invitation and the community's essence of what rugby is, is continued to be felt from your structures all the way to, you know, open, open teams. So, yeah, and I go back to that first thing was, you know, just got really invested people, invested people, and communities of people who may have been involved in the game for either there,

15:38it might be their first month, or it might be, you know, the reason that they ultimately love sport was they, they fell in love with it as a kid. So, to have those people in Southern California is an amazing, really important, and yeah, just making sure that we continue to feed on water those systems, because it's what ultimately continues to grow our games. Full disclosure, I am wearing a Northern cow shirt. So, just, I wanted to get the whole cow up when you covered. You got you guys in the South. Yeah, of course, they're going to come for you. Yeah, they're next. Yeah. Marcel, you're, I mean, you're retired. You're now stepped into the more staff coaching role with USA Rugby, specifically with the U20s and the pathways. Tell us about that, how you get into it, and also, what's the learning curve been like for you? Because not only you were just playing, not just playing, you're playing here in the States,

16:40USA and MLR. Now you got to cover, you got to look at the entire United States as far as how your staff is finding players. Yeah, and you know, I was, you know, it goes back a few years when I was still playing. I want to say it was in COVID times. I was, I'd sat down and thought about what it was, you know, as much of us, as many of us did during COVID times, just thought about my life in the what direction it's going and where it's going to go afterwards. Teaching and education was always something that I hadn't fully immersed myself in in terms of an occupation or a career after rugby, but it ultimately turned out that it was probably something that I wanted to explore. And with that, I thought coaching was an absolutely clear avenue to do those two exact things. And so I went about my coaching levels and you know, continue to get as much experience

17:47in development and exposure as possible through those times and then fast forward all the way to the end of the middle of last year when I finished rugby. And by that stage, I then done a few professional development experiences, you know, either with the USA men's Eagles, either with the Western Force in 2023. I'd done a little bit, I'd try and help dance to the Vista Winter, if I can to follow the USA women's events and you know, their incredible runs, same thing with the men's teams. And then, you know, in terms of mentorship, I always linked into guys like Scott Lawrence, a mentor of mine, also a mentor of would be Simon Thomas, who used to be the head of high performance that the now unfortunately,

18:49demised Austin Gell-Groenys, but you know, Simon's always been an incredible mentor for me. And you know, this opportunity came through Nid's character and Elvis Seviali to join their coaching group leading into the 2026 Junior World Championship, which I was incredibly humbled and fortunate to be a part of in that journey. For me, started in November of last year, but for Nid's and Elvis and the and Brandon Keene, and you know, to an extent, Scott, that this journey for the Junior World Championship started pretty much at the conclusion of the U20's tournament in Scotland, which was in, I want to say, Spring of 2024, and that's when ultimately the journey began. So I sort of just jumped on the back end after all the work had been done, all the recruitment, all the emails. So I was in a

19:57fortunate position to just be part of this coaching group of this extended group of what it would have been at the time in November around 60 players. And then, wind all the way down to the final 30, which was named just after a Charlotte, a two-week Charlotte camp at the end of May. And then, yeah, we embarked on quite an incredible and epic 40-day adventure, as you may call it, inter-Georgia this past summer, which again, truly incredible experience and selfishly one of the most in-depth and most rewarding adventures for me as well. And the growth as a coach was sick and tonight.

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22:06We're so so for those maybe who aren't quite familiar with the U-20 program or the team or the setup, where are most of these players coming from? Maybe around the country and is it like young college players, high school seniors moving up? Like who is where are these players coming from? And kind of the programs maybe they're coming from? Is it in all of the country? No, that's a lot of questions. No, no, no, no, no, great question. And yeah, the answer is just that. It's absolutely... The list of players is worked out a couple of years prior, as I mentioned. Start looking at eligibility from those all around the country and then plenty of scouting, plenty of conversations with coaches at these programs around the country, doesn't matter who or where or what. If the kid if one a young athlete was sort of available and interested, then that then is the first conversation.

23:15Because a lot of kids unfortunately make themselves unavailable due to various reasons. And that's absolutely their prerogative and absolutely their choice. And then a lot of kids reach out to partwiz director like our former director of partwiz, Brian King and sort of let them know about their eligibility to represent the United States. So there may be in England, there may be in Australia, there may be in New Zealand in some cases. And yeah, that then becomes the conversation between what needs and others we're doing for 18 months prior to us actually reaching the general World Championship selection group. And yeah, and as you said John, all these young eagles were sort of scouted and initial conversations were had in the years and months prior,

24:20there was Army by actually was part of a junior. I don't want to say it was the U-20s, but there was an emerging eagles camp that was halted the Chris just after Christmas in 2024 down in Chilivista. So even at that stage, we had, I think we bought across 35 or 40 eligible players for who would have been U-20 in the 2025 year. And a few of those kids would have been just turned 18, who would then be eligible to play in the junior World Championship of this past year. So you know, we already were doing plenty of scouting reports and development trackers for these young athletes at these programs so that they can then start to envision themselves being at the junior World Championship potentially 18 months later. Is the goal ultimately obviously for these

25:23players to play the highest level they can feed them up to the senior eagles, but is there like a, does the coach and staff, you know, have to share the number, but like is there like a number like, hey, we want X number of players to be putting on a men's eagles jersey for 31, you know, 35 or whatever. Is there like a metrics to show like, hey, this is, we are getting enough of these young players on their way to becoming capteagles. Yeah, I think the, I think the challenge for us at that level is first exposing the idea that being a professional isn't, is an opportunity that, you know, because for a lot of our athletes, they come from college programs where, you know, and they are exactly that student athletes. So for, especially in rugby, being a student is the number one thing, you know, so it's getting a degree, getting education to then give yourself the opportunity

26:27to have a better career. And then trying to counter, or not counter it, but, you know, support that development in education with the idea that, hey, you know, you have some real talent in you have a real opportunity here, if you so choose to, to become, to take rugby and utilize it as a career part for yourselves, because I think for a lot of our young junior eagles, they had, they have such talent, but I don't see, for some of them, I don't see the idea of being a professional, having being presented to them until, you know, we were at the Junior World Championship and them seeing that, you know, at stages they were competing with these T-R-Y nations where a lot of them, a lot of the athletes that were competing against had a rugby first mindset and maybe we're doing

27:32studying on the side, whereas we had guys that were studying first and foremost and then rugby was sort of like their club sports, which they just love to do. And it's, it was truly an incredible thing we were able to watch the final between South Africa and France and what a great game that was and all the boys, you know, just were completely an awe of the experience and I think that hit home for a lot of them was just, you know, the levels to this game and the requirements that, you know, it takes you in terms of investment and development and, you know, for a lot of them, they're not that far off. I know the results do showcase that, you know, from the outside perspective, the, you know, the results do say exactly what it needs to be said, but I think if you look closely at it, you'll see some real, real exciting talent that are equal eligible and, you know,

28:35have the real potential to, you know, if afforded the opportunity and if willing to take it, will really be able to support and grow with, with US Air, being the years to come. I was always curious, you know, talking to you, Marcel, over the years, you know, will, will, who, a bunch of the people who were, you know, discovered, oh, by the way, yeah, you were born in LA, whatever. And it seems to me like USA Rugby, she get a massive contract with 23 and me or some DNA service. It just, just says anyone born or has a parent born in America, kind of thing. Yeah. Let's make this work, man. Yeah, absolutely. I think, yeah, between, you know, Brendan, Nets and others, I think they've dug through every single ancestry, timeline and chart, you know, nothing, you know, they've seen it all and they've spoken with, almost everyone who even had maybe like a mate who was in America at a stage, you know, do you have some sort of eligibility? So, I don't think they're far more of that, Bill. Yeah.

29:42So let's, let's stay on topic here with the junior world championships. In my opinion, extremely tough pull you were in from the beginning, Argentina, England, Ireland, and India to face in Japan as well. But obviously not the results, the staff, the players, anyone wanted. But an incredible finish to it, that, that half against Eurowai, probably the best half rugby these guys have played all tournament and a lot of diversity also, lots of stuff happen, you know, sicknesses, everything else, you know, and no excuses. Extremely good teams USA played against. Is that when against Eurowai something you can build off and or is there stuff from those other matches that really you could build up as well for these guys to learn? Yeah, we can make this work. We can get better. Oh, absolutely. So, you know, firstly, you know, going to the pool, we were under no illusions about the challenges that were faced in front of us, not only, you know, we understandings of coaching, group and as a playing group, you know,

30:46we were obviously told by the rest of the world as we will always be told as a, as a rugby nation about what, about where we're at, you know, based on the external, external thoughts and observations of the rugby knowing world. So, when we, when we look back at the pool play and even the game against Japan, it's incredibly apparent to see how fine the margins are, you know, and for, as I mentioned, for a lot of those, the teams that we played against, maybe not so much Argentina in a way, but, you know, these are full-time U20 programs that have investment and development with these young athletes and exposure to the game from young ages. So, we're in a time, we're in a time challenge with, with countries like England, Argentina, Ireland and even Japan, where kids, some kids that we

31:50have been exposed to the game for the first time in high school or first time in college, you are not playing at the junior world championship, whereas kids in England and Ireland, and this is again, as you mentioned, no excuse, but, you know, they've been playing since they were six or seven. So, it's just, we're in a time, we're in a time challenge of how much exposure and how much IQ we have within the game. But all that to be said to look at some of those games and see that, yeah, we were in, there were arm wrestles in the games that we played against these tier one nations that we were in, and in some cases, we won that arm wrestle, and in a lot of cases, we were in the arm wrestle, and then we just couldn't hold on, and that leads to seven points. And if you do that multiple times in an arm wrestle, and it doesn't become a stalemate, and you just lose a fine margin, because of, you know, something that we just didn't have time to confront, then again, it's seven points, and it's fine margins that have larger consequences. So,

32:55all to be said that we knew that we had a team that was a group of resilient young men, and really impressive young men, and all to say that we got to the far, that final game against your revive, and we'd make it easy for ourselves, you know, we were in fact 15 all down at a stage. But we certainly had a really intelligent young group who, through the guidance of Niz and Alvis, worked on solution finding and finding ways to dig deeper and find solution to issues that as a collective, and man, what an incredible end of the first half, and second after that group showcased, and it truly was embodying the body, the spirit of that young resilient group of you 20s, and to your point about what happens now, is now we have,

33:55you know, where's last year we had zero young players with the exception of Spencer Huntley, who was part of the 2024 group, we had zero players with exposure to the U20 group, and now after this experience in Georgia we have around eight or nine young men who are still eligible for the U20 championship for next season, which is in itself, eight or nine experienced young men who've been through the, you know, the lead up, the build-up to a world championship, you know, what it feels like, and they can share experiences, you know, they have a development understanding cognitively and physically of what it takes to be part of that tournament, and can share those experiences, there won't be things that we're just talking about it from a hypothetical and objective standpoint, they actually have real loved experiences of the junior world championship, and that's invaluable for the race of the group, where you have close to

34:59a third of your team who've already played and experienced a tournament of that caliber and that level. Yeah. Well, what does that say about the guys, the boys, and the coaching staff to, you know, get beat up for four matches, and then getting beat up again in the first half, and what happened in that half time where maybe the coaches, you guys spoke up, or what was the, what is the about the makeup of these guys, I say, you know what, I don't care that we just lost a lot of the last four matches, we're going to go out there and win this match, what was it? Yeah, I think it was really great leadership from not only the coaching of needs and all of us, I think there's a real resilience and a real understanding of winning moments in games that we had showcased in the previous four games, like there were plenty of pictures and plenty of scenarios

36:00that in the past we maybe would have seen as like, oh man, like this, you just look at the scoreboard and that tells you at all, but there's, you know, a game and it tells you so many stories if you choose to look at them, and you know, the experiences that we had with those four really high level, high caliber teams allowed us the understanding that, okay, like we have been in this situation in various moments and various opportunities have showcased to us, how do we now take the most of it from those experiences and apply to this game? And what it came down at the end of the day for the Uruguay game was really just an application of discipline in finer things. It wasn't big, it wasn't big and major concerns, it was just finer things that the guys had picked up on and really well led by needs and all of us in their experience of how to tap into that,

37:01how to fine tune it, what are the focus points of the processes and details that we are just missing out on because as I mentioned, the fine margins ultimately were turned, you know, something that's pretty average into something that's really positive and vice versa, something that's quite average to quite negative, it's just fine margins and yeah, there was, you know, the old saying goes, full credit to the boys and it truly was, it was because you can come up with a plan all you want, if there's no buy into it, then it's just words and they took that and, you know, they loved it and wow, yeah, really amazing. Yeah. Much of a certain style of playing the U20s or trying to play or is there maybe like a certain identity that this team is like, this is our style of play, this stamps us as the U20 squad and if so, what is that? Yeah, I think the way Elvis and Niz play a play sit in terms of a theme

38:09of how we wanted to play and how we wanted to be was just that, we just wanted to be brave and, you know, everyone will talk about the US, the Eagles of this 2026 and talk about that, particularly that second half against England and that's okay, so, you know, we, you know, in much like the first game against Argentina, we went down quite quickly in the first half to around about a, you know, 30 to 40 point deficit. But, you know, just the, and, and, and, you know, those boys just decided that, no, we're just going to be really brave and just move the ball, utilize our skillsets, which, you know, they had focused on pretty much every day with Elvis, and, you know, Elvis's Breakfast Club, which he was meticulous at, in making sure that the finer details and development of their skill assets were on point for them to trusting and be brave and utilize it. So, bravery can be shown in all types of ways, but it's only when you're

39:12backs against the wall, you know, whether or not you decide to, you know, step up and move forward and you know, bravery, true bravery is, I guess, a showcase, and that was a great example of it. And, we wanted to play it really as fast as we could type a game, and from a defensive point of view, just bravery to just stay connected and stay to the point as much as we can, getting to positions where we always have the opportunity to halt an attack, but also to repel it with, you know, ball movement and skill set, and I think in a lot, and along the few, many numbers of cases, particularly on and off the field, we had to be brave in those scenarios, and I think for that tournament, sure, certainly showcased a young brave group. So, you know, Marcel, a couple more questions for you. I'd love to talk a little more about

40:14some of these players, especially these overseas players or overseas bass players. I know there was like 12 or so on that roster, and I want to read a couple of these names, and with some of them they played Buc Super Rugby, there's one or two in Champ Rugby. You got Finn Love with Cornish, you know, you met him, Spencer Huntley earlier, Jack Vibrates, Will Darber, Sure, Declan Caden, who spent, who dad with the Lester Academy recently, and we have Papa over in Japan, first of all, are all those names real. Finn Love, come on, man. And they sound like characters, but I'm sure, I mean, looking at what they did in the tournament was pretty impressive. I mean, that's just a few names right there. So, I guess my question for you is, and I'm not trying to discredit how a trophy player is at all in this country, but is there a difference in a skill level in these guys who have been playing over there, like you said, they've grown up with the ball, they're playing in these Academy assists in these university systems.

41:16Is there a difference between them and these college players who are playing in these premier college programs? I think the only difference is the exposure that they get on a weekly basis. I look at guys like you mentioned, like Finn, who just, you know, massive kudos to him, we just made his championship debut on the weekend as a young kid in a really, really tough league, and that's awesome. And he would have played against Aidan King, I'm pretty sure, from Tom Kaster, that week, which is also great, grateful ahead, and I'm super excited for him off the topic, sorry. But then you look at guys like Jamison BD, Leo Vannaples, over at Life University, those guys, Leo and Jamo both had great tournaments, and they are young kids at Life University. You know, you look at London Bailey, over at Western Washington, who, you know, for me on the

42:22defense, he was incredible. He was incredible in terms of his defensive work around the filters, physicality for a young man, and then you talk about some of the exposure that he's getting, and he was the only U20 representative from that program, but man, he stood up and competed with the best physically. So that's exciting. You look at Marka Lapier, over at Brown, you know, and Marka's showcased his talent, you know, not only recently at Rugby Town, but you know, just for Brown over the last couple of years, you know, and he's incredible, the ability under the high ball, his bravery on the edge, and his speed and athleticism. Siale offer over at St Mary's, Colin Donnelly over at St Mary's. You know, the list goes on, and I'm definitely leaving out so many young kids at the American college level, but, yeah, to say that there may be, there is a difference between the players who apply in these

43:31bucks, super leagues and down, and true chilled cults levels in Australia. Yeah, the differences that they are just exposed to more experienced programs, themselves individually, and also competitively, they are playing against more consistent, probably, is the right word, more consistent programs, with more, you know, tougher pictures, but, you know, I go back to it, and I say, you know, the margins are fine, you know, like you can, you can find ways to cut a curve of learning and development, and, you know, sometimes the exposure that some kids may have to a program may not always be the right ones, even though they're getting it, you know, so, I think it was a real showcase that, you know, college rugby is really, it's, it's, you just gotta keep feeding it, you know, you just gotta keep watering it, and you know, make sure that we're feeding the kids that want it, you know, feeding them the right stuff, like there's

44:36so many things that people can look at, and there's so many people, things that people can look at in all rugby programs. I was just highlighted because, you know, people just are really excited about it, and they really want answers here and now, but it's guys, we've got to just keep like making sure that we're just watering our regions and watering our areas and taking our time with it, you know, eventually, you know, we'll see the fruits begin to grow, and I don't think we're far off. Maybe stay on that for just a second, they were talking about feeding, you know, just, you know, with the focus on pathways. You know, how robust is that pipeline, or are there certain players, maybe from the level down coming up, and you 18 going up to you 20, that you guys are scouting, that you're excited, like, oh, I can't wait to, you know, he's at the you 20. Are there some players that you guys are identifying, and kind of itching to get into the you 20 setup? Yeah, well, John, I mean, you look at it just, you know, everyone's got their own regions. I'm

45:41sure, both you've seen some young development pathways, and, you know, on the East Coast, and, I'm only talking about West Coast now, because John and I are there, but you see the numbers of these young programs, and, you know, the amount of more kids that are exposed to it, and, you know, I'll always go back to it. It's not for us to sort of tell these young, multi-sport athletes said, like, look, you, you got to, you got to focus in the home in on rugby right now, because if you're not going to do it, then you're going to make it. That's, I don't think that's, that's for us to say. I think for us, it's just to make sure that these young kids who I had you 14, you 15, you 16, who are being targeted, you know, with, with multi-level sports, always understand that rugby will always have them, you know, like, I don't think we have anything, we have no reason to turn a kid away at all. We niche just when he kids playing as possible. But what that is to say is, like, to

46:45always, like, let them know that rugby, whenever they play rugby, they love it for, you know, the, the experience that it is, and that's important for us to continue nurturing and making sure that the love of their game is there, because they will be taught, like, head-unted and taught to buy all these other sport programs, which have far more money and five deeper pockets and far more nettox to universities than we have at the moment. But you're so right, like, you see it, like, you see it, I'm fortunate to be at a place where, you know, kids want to play at you 12 and you 14 and you 16. And again, it's just, can we just continue to expose them with the, with the right volunteers and the right coaches, you know, and continue to make sure that they are continuing to love the game for the reason that they are and that the talent will continue to be nurtured and, and shaped. But is the, is the love to play the game still there? And that's why, you know, I couldn't

47:52stress more, I'm important is for us to continue making sure that I'll expose it to allowing coaches the development and referees that develop and that they need, because our game needs as many of those good coaches and referees as possible in order for our players to want to stand the game. If we have a great education pathway where a kid feels as though they're getting better because the coach that they have really is invested in them and their coach, they feel like their coach sees them and is able to nurture their experience. That's huge. Same thing with referees, I don't think referees are nearly supported as well as we should because our game doesn't work without referees. And we are in an incredible sport where exposure of how bad the referee is is just second nature, you know, for us as a sport. But can we get into a point where we are always exposing young people to the idea that, hey, you know, you this, there's other ways that you can, you know, continue being involved in the sport. And you know, refereeing is as important as a job as anything because we need

48:55someone to fish here at our game in the right way and to make sure that our kids are learning through that experience as well. So to your point, John, yeah, there's so much talent, but you know, there's ways for us to continue nurturing and making sure that kids, even if they maybe don't show any formidable talent right now, they still have an exposure and understanding that they continue to develop their games as they get older. So what do you think you'd be right now if you didn't get that call from John Mitchell about 10 years ago? That's a great question, Bull. I don't know, hey, she's stopped. Yeah, it's yeah, like how do you, how do you look alternatively to a lot changing experience? You know, you sort of just look at man, I just would have been way more average than I am now. You like to think. Yeah, it's a great question. No way more average. Here's the thing, I'm

50:06picturing, sorry, if it's not you, I'm picturing some guy coming out to watch their kid play at youth rugby in Southern California and then they see you walking up the field like, oh great, there's the international player here. He probably thinks his kid is the next Jonah, whatever. You know, I like that. My kids will love you. Well, we'll see. All right, Marcello, lastly, what does the immediate future of the pathways calendar look like for UAT or U20s at least maybe going to next year anything on the calendar yet for tours or clinics, anything like that? No, not not as a viet I think discussions are still in place in terms of what the calendar looks like in the bold up to that. So certainly, you know, firstly, you're waiting to see about how that looks and then you know, we'll attack it from there, but you know, it's obviously an a very exciting period for the pathways programs

51:12and making sure that the exposure, you know, after the experience that, you know, a lot of young kids would have seen of the U20s, you know, which is really cool to think, you know, that not only did these young, young Americans represent themselves so, so proudly on the world stage, they also had younger U18s players watching them and seeing the exposure that they had and they would have had 16, 17-year-old juniors and seniors, you know, watching and told themselves, oh wow, like look at that experience and playing against the best in the world, I'd love to do that. So it was way beyond just, you know, like the guys who are potentially available for next year, you know, it goes deeper into really like touching based on some kids who are like, wow, rugby can take me all, everywhere and you know, I get to learn and play with kids from all over the world. So

52:13you are really excited about, you know, the calendar that's coming up ahead and the exciting for the junior Eagles is they continue to move forward. Well, listers, viewers, just stay tuned to us, a Rugby.com or whatever the website is, right there. I'm sure there'll be some notices online and soons, they're available and just stay involved. Keep an eye out for guys like Coach Brocky here and Coach Fish Patrick. They'll be sure to give advice about where to go and get yourself on the list and etc. Marcel Brocky, so good to see you again man, it's been way too long and good luck with your adventure here with USA Rugby. Hey, thanks guys and you know, not enough can be said for for guys like yourselves that keep the, you know, the real love for Rugby alive, you know, and that this is an invasive and as much as anything else, you know, just keeping it, you know, as present and as accessible as possible. So thanks for all that you guys do and join us, see

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