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It was a torrid week for the English clubs in the Champions League. Liverpool Arsenal and Newcastle are in the balance, but Chelsea, City and Spurs look all but out.
Did they under perform or did some of the giants of europe like PSG and Madrid just find their form?
What do the results say about the Premier League, very physical but technically inferior?
For Spurs the defeat came with yet more questions for interim coach Igor Tudor - was he right to substitute his keeper after 17 minutes?
How will europe affect Spurs and Nottingham Forest's relegation fight?
Lastly, how good was Kyle Walker as the England stalwart announces his international retirement?
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