What a week! Reflecting on the Stephen A. Smith Interview

0:00Didn't catch the latest Roland Martin unfiltered podcast? Here's what you missed. There should not be a single law enforcement agency. It does not have body cameras. It's real. Black farmers have been under attack. This is just the latest example of them just slapping DEI on anything. It's raw. And I'm sitting here going, they are playing y'all for fools. Catch Roland Martin's daily commentary on the Black Information Network. And download Roland Martin unfiltered on the iHOT radio app Apple Podcast. Wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Mike Yama. And I'm Trevor Sikama. And together we host the NFL Fantasy Football Show. Are you ready to dominate your fantasy league this season? Because if you aren't locked in with us on the NFL Fantasy Football Show, you're already playing from behind. Whether you're a first-time player or a grizzled vet chasing another championship, we give you the advantage and the confidence you need to make every move count. Listen to the NFL Fantasy Football Show on the iHOT radio app. Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcasts.

1:01College football will hijack your weekend, ruin your sleep and break your heart. And that's why we make the Sullivan-verbal College football show. I'm Ty Hildenbrand. He's Dan Rubenstein. Every week we preview the games that matter in the storylines that are gonna ignite your group chat. And you can join us in the aftermath as we react to what happened, why it matters, and how the sport went completely bonkers yet again. Listen to the Solid Verbal College football show on the iHOT radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. The entire draft room groans because you just took the guy they wanted. There's no better feeling than crushing your fantasy football league. I'm JJ Zacharyson, host of the award-winning Late Round Podcast. Before your draft, our players to target and players to avoid episodes tell you exactly who to circle and who to cross off. Listen to the Late Round Fantasy Football Podcast on the iHOT radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

2:04Whether you're a seasoned NFL fan or new to the game, there's one place to keep up with all of it. The league's newest podcast, the NFL Report, hosted by me, Andrew Siciliano. It is your home for everything football. Breaking news, expert analysis, game picks, and here from your favorite players to join me. And it all starcast of experts for everything you need to know from around the league. Get new episodes of the NFL Report, Monday through Friday, all season long. Listen to the NFL Report Podcast on the iHOT radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Someone said they wanted to do new vocal stem loading, loading courtesy of Kerry Champion when I yelled, I know you lying. And I was like, what? You know, that's so funny, right? That could be a meme in itself. I know what you mean. So can someone make that so we can make so we can have fun? Can we literally can someone make that literally because we need that? You know what the best part of my flight was from LA from New York to LA.

3:05Tell me is sitting one row behind me. Oh, I told you this was Karen Pittman who I absolutely love. And yeah, I was like, it's funny. You say that. I saw her on Instagram and she was, well, clearly in New York and she looks so good, so good. And in person, she's amazing. And I told her she did like you. She did like me and I did tell her that I thought the morning shows. I mean, I did. I almost fired you on a spot. I was like, yeah, she is. There's a three times the week thing that I do. Can you fill in? But no, I did tell her and the showrunner who was sitting next to me is that they, they do a good job on that show of like nailing what it is about. Being in the environment of a TV network and I just a part of heart. I think you don't think. No, like who's going from West Virginia to network television? I mean, we'll stop it.

4:06Okay. Like that's the TV dramatization. But in terms of the internal conflicts, I think they do a really accurate job of that. Like Nicole, but hurry. Her character. I was like, girl, I don't know. Well, unfortunately, I haven't watched it enough to tell you that. So I would. So I just want to be the last season. Gary, you know, I know. I know this. No. So anyway, but I think it's even a Internet work complex. Yeah. When you think of our Steven A interview, you want to go first. It's a full recap. I think everybody knows how I feel. Well, no, because it's a difference between how you feel doing it versus how you feel. Once people see it. Right. So there's like, there's a big difference. But, um, you know, in the in the moment, I think we, well, I was unsure what to expect. And I said as much as like, you know, when we were in the car on the way over there. And I was like, I'm going to be all whatever he, whatever you are. I'm going to be all like that's that was my thinking going in.

5:09And so once we sat down and things diffused sort of, I was like, okay. All right. We're going to be able to have a civil conversation about all of this. Not that I don't, I don't want to put that out there and make it seem like I expected. Steven A to be disrespectful or any of those things. I didn't expect that he's too much of a television professional. I think to do that. But more or less, I was curious as to what level of transparency we would get to. And we got to some pretty open levels. And yeah, I had like three or four things I wanted to specifically talk to him about. There was like, maybe one or two things I didn't get to just because of the flow of the conversation. And once we brought the politics into it at some point, I think we both were very cognizant of this. It's like, we didn't want to derail this into a political conversation because I mean, I'm not going to sit up there and debate every single opinion that you have about certain political topics.

6:10I think that's worthless. Just because yeah, we're going to disagree about that stuff. But the fundamental reason we're disagreeing about all of this is not political related. And it is generally based off your certain disposition that we feel like you have toward our community overall. So that was the part I wanted to talk about and make sure that he was aware that like it's. A lot of people looking at you real funny and a light. And this is why we look at you a little funny and the light. So yeah, that was that was kind of it. In terms of the reaction, I think we have drawn quite a bit of praise for how we handled the conversation. I mean, of course, people are free to have their opinions about. You know, our tactics in terms of how we approached it. But I think generally people understood the spirit of which we were trying to do things. Yeah, there's some idiots, but like I think generally people took it that the way it was supposed to be taken.

7:13Okay. But where do you think we was supposed to be taken? Well, no, I think this is where, you know, people have to understand when you have a conversation with somebody, especially if they're fundamental disagreements. The goal of it is not to change his mind. At least that was my goal because the reason this man has made as much money as he has and is the face of a network isn't because he goes around changing how he feels. He is rooted in I'm right. And that was going to be something that I knew would be the case. It's like, yeah, he was going to come into it thinking he was right. However, that being said, I think we put something on his mind. I think we did put something on his mind to hopefully make him a more reflective and a little bit more self-aware as it relates to how he discusses. I don't know if that's even possible. And I also think it's interesting because men and women have different ideas of what it should be.

8:15I think he kept using the word strategy throughout the entire conversation. Yeah. The way he moves is strategic. Correct. I pointed out to him that it sounds a lot like capitulation to me. Strategy and he feels like, I think that in terms of what he thinks he's doing, he thinks he's making the right moves. And obviously, no one's going to deny that. He's just got $100 million. So how could you deny that something he's doing something right? So I see why he feels like he's right and everybody else is wrong. And so I think that's always going to be the case. That conversation, I got, okay, so I think many people told me it was exhausting. People who we work with in the business that it was exhausting because they already know him. But I think some other people were like, okay, he doesn't, he's fine. And these are our people, right? His fans will talk about them in a minute.

9:16But our people were just like, okay, I don't know. I had mixed reviews if I'm honest about what people have been giving me in terms of feedback. Like my friends have been saying, you know, good stuff and bad stuff and not bad. Like they're in between. The conversation has ranged from why we even have them on a podcast, necessarily, to, well, I hope you got that off your chest. Well, I don't even really want to talk about it too. I thought it was a great conversation. I've had a lot of different conversations with people who are in our group that will say how they felt about our approach. And I think for me, that was more needed for me to have that conversation with him than ever before because, you know, in his opinion, I think he really is surprised that I didn't say anything to him. And I was just like, that's crazy to me, right? Just to surprise that he was surprised because I think one, I think I said this. I was like, given the dynamic of the show, why would you be surprised? Like you're coming in. That's why I did it. That's why I was calling.

10:16I was like, I'm calling on that one. And the same thing was like me wanting, like no offense, because I'm not trying to restart anything, but why would I want to come back and work with you? That was crazy. Why would I want you to be surprised? And the internet's like, who do you believe? Steven is a scary. No. Yeah. But maybe it's because people do, they don't know you. Like I know you or your friends know you. But like, that would literally, literally never happen. If somebody would have said, would you bet your whole life on Carrie Jampey and calling Steven A or even wanting the job back, like independent of calling him, I would be like, I would bet my entire life on this. I would bet everything in my bank account that this woman never wanted that job back. Yeah. And so I take me in a greaseless lie. And then maybe even in his mind, he thought I like working with him. Yeah. Like maybe I just don't know. I don't know. No question. Steven, you thought I enjoyed it? Yeah. Well, I have no idea.

11:17Just, you know, going back to that time period, it's like when you are, I think people, people are a little ignorant and I don't mean this in a, in, in trying to flamethrower folks, but like ignorant of how dynamics work on shows. It's like, usually when you come into a show, very rarely are things on an equal status. And so when you came in, everybody knew skip was the boss. Right. Boom. And so to Steven A was not in a position to be vocal about anything because he was just getting the lead back in the network because he had been, you know, they had let him go, right? Which is, which is why when he's like, I hired you. I was like, okay. You just like, you just got there. You just got it like he hadn't even been there six months when you got there. So there's a level of capitulation that he had to do to keep that hierarchy, to keep that balance. Then you come in. You are automatically the lowest person on the dough. I was not right.

12:18I was in there saying nothing. I was happy to be there. Thank you for making it. And so why would you go to him and think that he could change anything for you? That was just, that just didn't make sense to me, but I just didn't make sense. I just didn't make sense. Literally don't remember the same. I don't think we had the same experiences. I don't think you remember the same. It's almost like, you tell somebody, because they were like, this is couples' therapy. Part two was couples' therapy. Jamel said in there, they were like, Jamel believes, Stephen A. I could tell. I do not. I do not. And I was like, well, whatever the case may be, I do know that that was very therapeutic for me, not necessarily even for him, because he, I think he really just doesn't remember that time. And I think that makes perfect sense. I think he remembers a little bit here and there. Like you can't really make people remember. I'm not excusing anything, but I'm like, oh, he really believes something totally different. Well, I think maybe, maybe it carries the thing of where, because he was in the place he

13:20was in his career, that he just did not have the bandwidth or the capacity to consider what your experience might be in that dynamic. You know what I mean? Sure. You ever need somebody and you guys like, how did you meet? And then you guys go back and tell the story totally differently. That's how I felt. That's how you felt. Like me and my best friend, Kendra, I'm like, remember how we met? You were and she was like, no, you were. And I'm like, no, yeah, you were. And so anyway, that's how it was. This, the reality of the situation is that I wasn't 100% happy with how things turned out, especially in the aftermath of things. I wasn't like the whole process was just exhausting to me. And so I'm glad that we were able to have the conversation and I wouldn't run from it again, but it was really exhausting for me. And slightly disappointing, if I'm being honest with you, all around. And what the ways. And all the ways and everything, every possible way, slightly disappointed, you know, underperformance,

14:20overperformance, misunderstandings, the list goes on. But that's just what it is. But it was for those who understand it and those who needed it in a real way, not trying to critique it. I hope that that they learned something new or, you know, I'm not out to try to change anybody's opinion about anybody. If you love me before great, if you hate me before great, if you loved him before great hate him before whatever, you could be neutral, keep it as is. Because usually that's how people watch television. Oftentimes they're like, oh, you two emotional, but like you watch TV based on who you like. You know what I mean? Like what that's an emotion. You are tuning in, paying attention to people based on who you like. And so it was just a, it was a mixture of things for me, but I am ultimately glad that we had the conversation. Because remember the establishing baseline is like, so if I ever say anything about you, you already know how I feel. Like you're not going to be surprised if I say that you're not telling the truth.

15:21You're not going to be surprised if I say that's not how I remember it. So, you know, and I was keeping it, you know, I think, you know, again, you have to be very as professional as you can be. I love that C.V.A. was drinking the entire time. Thirn Folk Glasses are wine, but yeah, I was the one drunk. And I was like, oh, wait, we'll say that. You know, I told you in the comments, she might be tipsy. I'm like, oh, I was like, I'm biting tipsy. We tell you, this man has took down a whole bottle. Why are we here? But he ain't. Well, you know, especially that is the thing we're up against because people, if people act like emotion is a bad thing, it's not a bad thing. And there's a difference between emotion and passion. And I think when it comes to women, there's a built in easy go to lever that people say, like you guys are too emotional. Like that is supposedly, you know, the reason why people, some people anyway feel like we're not capable of being a certain type of leader.

16:24And I'm like, meanwhile, the man that started all the wars, they be constantly in a panties all the time. But that's okay. That's okay for them. For them, that's considered to be bravado and masculine. I was like, when women get passionate, it's like, y'all too emotional. Like, and y'all, are you kidding me? Right. And so I didn't think that at all. People have to understand if they're comparing our demeanors, it's like, you work with this man every day for three years. Every single day you were exposed to him for three years. I did not. And we were, we weren't even in the same building where we did our shows. So like, that was why my, I can only speak to certain experiences. Of course, I can speak to the experience of being your friend and you using me as a sounding board, inventing. And based off what I watched as I brought up, I was just like, ill, for me watching this, I don't like how these dudes talk to you or not talk to you.

17:24Like, I don't like the way they, depending on the mood. Like, I don't like the way they, that they don't include you. And not, not simply just from a moderator standpoint. Like, yeah, we know what a moderator does and, and we know what the function of that job is. But it was something to me that was disrespectful. That is the different part of this. Where you know, you know, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're in a partnership when you're on television together. That's what you are. And it felt like they, you know, a lot of times they had, they balled and they would pick it up and go home and they would let you play. You know what I mean? I'll tell you who doesn't get into this, which I find interesting too. You know who we'll never hear from, which I, which I applaud because he's like, is this a no one situation? I don't want to get into it back and forth. It skipped. Only time skip goes after somebody's going after it when he's upset with like, in the past when he's been upset with Stephen A. about some things Stephen A. may have said and he just corrects him right on the spot and you know, Stephen A. says my bad. But skip won't get into this conversation. I think it's interesting. Have you noticed that? Like he's interesting. And I think it's kind of interesting observation. I think it's smarter because it's like, what's the point for him?

18:26He's like, there's just no win. Like why he doesn't, he, you know, I think our business and I, this is interesting to the other day when Gloria is dying and when she passed away. I, you know, you didn't get a chance to go to her house, did you? I did not. I missed that event. You went to it, right? Yeah. I missed that event. In my mind, God was like, she looks so healthy. I had no idea. I thought she was fine. She would have these different events at her house for women in sports because she was trying to be in the world. And I don't know what was going on physically or if she had an illness and it just hit quick or whatever the case may have been. I didn't, and did they put in like, watch it fast away? But the point, here's the point. They were giving all these quotes. And obviously she's before my time. So I didn't realize how radical she was. And I didn't know historically what she represented. I've had some of her quotes where they were pulling out some of the things from the archives. And I just was just blown away at her audacity to be so bold. And you know, her famous quote is, the truth will first piss you off and then it'll set you free.

19:26And I feel like that to me is the season of life I'm in. But every day I'm learning a new truth and it really pisses me off. But it'll also set you free. So it helps you manage your expectations. And this is a high emotional IQ conversation. It helps you manage your expectations. And it also helps you understand how people react. But that still doesn't mean you can't have an emotion to it and you can't be upset about it and you can't feel something about it. You may understand it, right? Because there's a logical component that most people have. I think women don't necessarily lead not all women, but some women I don't. I get I was like, yeah, that makes sense, but it still doesn't mean it doesn't piss me off. And so when she had that quote, when they were showing all these different quotes about her, it was just really true. And it was a you get, she said the older women get the more that they just become, you know, to the point where they're just like, fuck you. You're just like, I'm not dealing with that.

20:27I just won't deal with it. I won't. I just won't. And I was thinking when I met her, it was just that same. She was standing. She was trying to sit and learn about sports and how the dynamics work and all of the things. And she just had such a wise way about herself. And I think and I thought yesterday it was really interesting that while I was while we had released these episodes that, you know, in sports is so deeply misogynistic and there are so many things that happen within sports that you can't really understand unless you are a woman. And oftentimes it's hard for women to find their voices in sport. And when they do find their voice, they usually aren't applauded for finding their voice at all times. Like, people can say, I like her, I like her, I like her. She does a good job. I like what you write. You're a great writer. You're logical. You're this at the third. But you ultimately, there's some resentment that comes with having a very powerful voice and understanding who you are and being comfortable in your own skin. And I'm thinking this is all brand new, but this is all stuff she was writing about.

21:27Just a lot of she was saying, you're like, oh, okay. Ah, I did know. This has been happening since the beginning of time. And so I think that these are, this is the season that I am in life. And I feel like everything that I'm experiencing is letting me know, like, this is the truth. And this, these are the circumstances. You can change that truth. You can change that reality. Because how you move, but like, let it, let it ignite you in a way for good. Let it fire you up for good. Whatever that looks like. So I think I was content, like, I had all the mixed emotions of the interview. And I'm still processing it because it was such a significant period in my life. And I think that it's different to not stand up for yourself. I won't ever not stand up for myself now. Like I, no one's going to do it. So I think that's the component I think that people might miss from all of this is that. And because they don't know you and obviously they weren't there, is during that, during

22:28that stretch, you know, everybody knows you now because you have such a strong voice. You're very self assured. You're very confident. And that's not to say that those elements weren't part of your personality then, but it was different dynamic. Yeah. And so like, it wasn't, yeah, that's, that's why I mentioned to him when we were doing it. I was like, do you, it's a story we tell finally now, but at the time it was crazy as fuck. Because when you opened up to my apartment and you were just like, I'm about to quit my job. I was like, wait, you like, what? I'm quitting tomorrow. You were taking me out to get some things from my apartment. And you were like, and by the way, as I hand you a cup full of champagne. By the way, I, I, I, first of all, you, I always say when you tell that story, you must forget that I would, that, that there was driving involved in champagne. You try and get me arrested. From a year ago. Yeah. It was, it was a different time here. Okay. So, yes, you, you pulled up and as soon as I got in the car, you were like, so I'm quitting

23:30tomorrow. And I was like, what? And you're like, here's some champagne. I'm like, what? I like, what is happening? Because you had taken so much in that situation. In many ways, was so toxic. And so as I said during the interview, I'm like, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, skip is sending me a faux page letter, I'll tell you about standing up for you. What is the environment like every, every day? What is the environment like every day? Every day. Yeah. Somebody has to go through that. So, I think people, you know, those who know, know, like they, they will not understand the toxicity of that environment. Yes, it was a highly popular show. And I promise you guys any highly popular show, when you start talking to people about, um, what goes on inside of that show, I promise you it is a level of toxicity.

24:32Y'all would not even imagine. They can't even understand. I mean, you can't, you can't explain it to them. And they all was like, well, don't you wish you was back on the show? I absolutely do not. You're right. I was like, I thought, I would you resign up for that. But no one believes that. I'm like, you know, that's just the world. I think that's just the world people fall into. Like you're like, no, I wouldn't, but it's fine. I, they can have it. I will tell you, there's a nice little, here's a nice little message that we received. Shout out to Jamel and Carrie for the recent episode with CpNA. It wasn't only a necessary conversation for the community to see, but it appeared to be a much needed dialogue for all three of you. As viewers, we really don't know what you all have to navigate over the years. It's easy to take for granted that this is a real lived experience and not just a TV show slash podcast. Salute to y'all for sharing vulnerability. That was a very nice message. It was something, it was another message too that I was going to tell you. Someone said they wanted to do new vocal stem loading courtesy of Carrie Champion when I yelled, I know you lying. And I was like, what? You know, that's so funny, right?

25:34That could be a meme in itself. I know. I would. So can someone make that so we can make so we can have fun? Can we literally, can someone make that literally? Because we need that. When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and health captive for nine months. I survived and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart and these are the survivor files. I just remember this low taunting voice next to my ear saying, shut up, don't say anything. Every week, I'm with survivors who lived through the unthinkable. I knew if he woke up without a doubt, he was going to hurt me. I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed and I just started screaming. They are abducted, stalked, controlled and nearly silenced.

26:34But these aren't stories about what's taken from them. Their story is about what it takes to make it out alive. Listen to the survivor files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. On the new podcast, Solita, we share the messy reality of traveling alone as a woman. I can wait four hours for the next bus or this random dude is offering me a ride on his motorcycle. I choose option B. I'm Julie Bignero and I travel by myself because it's a rare space where I can say yes without asking anyone else first. I'm on a mission to reclaim the word Solita, trading the pity for possibility. Every time I try to be alone, I kept meeting people and they were like, you smile good us, not a lot of people smile around here. It's when you're alone that you're most receptive to the world as it is and not the lies you're sold about it. It can be a time where you push your limits, change your mind or wake up to a new version

27:35of yourself. So whether you're a solo travel veteran or you're too nervous to book your first trip, I hope you listen to Solita on the iHeartRadio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. If you're bookshelf and you're for you page are equally important to your personality, welcome home. This is Pro's Society, the weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for thought daughters, pop culture obsessives and anyone who thinks pride and prejudice and love island deserve the same level of discourse. I'm Eli Rallo and every week we're connecting the dots between books, the internet and the conversations everyone can't stop having. I'm going to have to look up this story. I'm obsessed. So obsessed. From bestselling authors and your favorite book talk creators to the latest pop culture moments, nothing is off the table. It's like if you can hide some real messages inside compelling characters and that is of Trojan horse, whether you're looking for literary deep dives, smart pop culture conversations

28:36or a community of readers who love to think a little too much, you're in the right place. Listen to Pro's Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. See you between the pages. Didn't catch the latest role in the Martin unfiltered podcast. Here's what you missed. And the argument is, do you want to win? If you don't win, you have no power. It's real. Those are the very people who I always say vote against their own economic interests and they complained about the very thing they were seeing. It's wrong. I knew that the issue of transgender athletes was not going well with a lot of black men. Roland Martin unfiltered. I went off. I said, this is exactly what I'm talking about. We all go scream at Chanel, but you don't want to see a black luxury company in the same bank. Catch Roland Martin's daily commentary on the black information network. 12 seats. Those are moving south.

29:37So if you Democrats, you don't wait to 2030. You better be hitting the ground going to heart in the south now. And download Roland Martin unfiltered on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts. Wherever you get your podcasts. College football will hijack your weekend, ruin your sleep and break your heart. And that's why we make the Sullivan-verbal college football show. I'm Ty Hildenbrand. He's Dan Rubenstein. How's it going? Every week, we preview the games that matter, sort through the biggest storylines and tell you what to watch before kickoff. There's a lot to keep track of. Who's for real? Which upset is hiding in plain sight and which storyline is about to take over your group chat? And the games are over. Join us in the aftermath, too. We're going to react to what happened. Talk about the biggest results. Of course, we'll cover the playoff picture. And all the little details you might have missed while flipping between like 12 games at once. Whether you know every coach and coordinator or just want to understand why everybody

30:38is yelling, we're here to help make sense of the madness. Listen to the Solid Verbal College football show on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. By the way, just real quick, because we're, you know, we're taping this in real time. Buffy dropped it in the chat and I'm looking at the tweet now, but Shams, Shams Sharani just reported that WNBA Commissioner Kathy Engelberg has decided to retire at the end of this season. Retirement, huh? Like, oh, that's when we call it. Wow. She, we're going to get a new WNBA Commissioner. You know what? Do you think that? Well, we know whoever we interview, we interview Nekka the other day. We think she knew. You think she knew. Oh, I don't. Hmm. She didn't know that was the neck. She's not let us in on the news. Is that you know what's interesting about that? If in fact, in fact, the fact that he's dropping you just crazy.

31:41The, what's interesting about that is I was just thinking about the Clippers and how fast the NBA, not fast. It's been an investigation, but the NBA, the NBA was very, very, very forceful in the fine that they gave the Clippers for funneling money to Kauai Leonard evading the salary cap and they were giving him money that he just wasn't supposed to have through different businesses that Steve Barmer did business with slash owned. And Pablo, you guys got to check it out. Pablo finds out he did a really, really good job. And then ESPN came back and said, no, we found no wrong doing with the Clippers and everyone said, Pablo, I think they were reporting that they wouldn't basically be punished in all of that. Yeah. And they were saying Pablo was a liar. Right. Such a bad look. Bad look. And their reporters were saying, Pablo's wrong and Pablo's like I stand by my reporting. And then the NBA does their own investigation and finds out that it's deeper than what Pablo even thought. And the Clippers get Steve Barmer's fine for a year.

32:45He cannot, he's suspended for one year, it has to be away from the team for an entire year as well as into it, don't, which he built for to make the most perfect, you know, arena in the world to confusing have been there. I can't even function. And they miss five first round picks for five first round draft picks. And they get a 30 million. A 30 million dollar fine, they have to pay 30 million dollars and Kauai Liner, he's gone. He's in Toronto. He's like, deuces. And he only has to pay $700,000. But allegedly, he collected over $48 million through different, you know, bogus businesses, et cetera, evading the salary cap. So here is what's interesting. Two things. I thought to myself, episode, don't play. Like once he's on something, he's on something, he don't play. I wonder because he is in charge of the W, why isn't he moving faster with Kathy Inkelberg and or why isn't she following suit and being more proactive when it comes to all the nonsense that's happening in the W, like just end it.

33:47You see what he just did? He just ended it. This conversation is over. He just ended it. You're right. This conversation's over. We don't care about the clippers anymore. They did wrong. They're fine. Now you guys can break down why you can't stand the clippers, but we are no longer associated with this and being reactionary. We are now taking the lead. We are proactive. We're giving him the biggest fine. We're doing all the things we can do. Our part of this is over. We've investigated. I've heard you done. And that type of action, Adam Silver is known for taking. And so I wonder, was it because Kathy was fed up and she got tighter taken the elves? Was she not willing to be proactive? Was the NBA preventing her from being proactive? Were they holding her back? You know, big brother, little sister type deals? Again, things we just don't know anything about. So I'm curious as to retire met for her. I think they let her retire. Right. I wonder if Adam let her go. I mean, honestly, I'm sure we'll know more in the coming days, but I think this was,

34:51they gave her a graceful exit because, you know, frankly, as her job as commissioner, there was a lot of things that she did right. A lot of things that were in line with what a commissioner is supposed to do. When she took over the job, the biggest problem the WNBA had was funding was they did a capital run. She brought us some money. She brought them the money. That was what was supposed to be her job. And she did that. She accomplished that. But as they moved into this new era where, okay, the money's there. Now you have new franchises. Now, you know, you have all these things happening. It required someone who could be more front facing and that was not her. And so I think they, they had to know and we all could see it. They definitely had to see it. It's like, I think they had to know that they need a different kind of leader for this moment. And that doesn't mean listen, any commissioner for any sports league works for the owners. That is your, that's what you do. Sure. I think in this moment, Adam Silver will recognize or should recognize that you probably

35:57need someone who has a different kind of experience. You don't need a strict business person. You're going to need somebody with a little more gravitas than that. And, but is it all her, right? Like did she get any help? Like was she. That's a good point. In a different lane. I mean, I feel like there's so much we don't know. Maybe because, you know, ultimately, like I said, Adam's the big brother. Like was he telling her to stand down? Don't do anything. He's never spoken about her really. Yeah. Well, when when he was asked about her, I would say it wasn't, I'm going, I wasn't going. Yeah, because he was asked about Kathy Engelberg and he was non-committal about her future. And the last time he was asked about it, what did he say? Well, I'll look this up as we're talking about. If you get to it before I do, please, please drop it in our little chat. But he, as I recall it, he was kind of non-committal about her future.

37:01He definitely highlighted some of the things she did. But, you know, the truth is, a lot of people thought that this was going to be, that this was coming. And it was funny because before the CBA, because I think I feel like we have a lot of we have this conversation at one point. Before the CBA got done, I would say to myself, after the CBA, she's done. Like they're going to let her go after this. Yeah, well, we, yes, because it was a different, they needed something different from her. So yeah, I'm, this is unsurprising. Okay. All right. So I got it. Okay. This is from Adam Silver. This is in July. Okay. Um, he gave his press conference at Summer League. And he said he was pleased with the WMBA. That is his exact word. He was pleased. And he talked about how the league made tremendous progress.

38:02However, when he was asked about her job status, I think Kathy continues to do a strong job building the league. People have ongoing discussions about what her future looks like. That's what he said. He didn't say that's my dog. He didn't say this is my commissioner. I'm writing. No, he said we will have continuous discussions, which means as in July, yeah, there were thoughts about well, one future you think in July, you will at least probably I think before then it was talked about like where is this going? Okay. So think about the things that have transpired in terms of the WMBA being in the center of this culture war over the last month. I'm sure that those conversations probably ramped up. Like we need a wartime commissioner who can get us through this moment where we're being weaponized as some kind of cultural cultural hammer like Thor. And so they yeah, change was necessary.

39:04And she didn't even talk about it too much at. At the all start, at all starts, she kind of side steps some questions. Interesting. The season is over what in October mid October? Yeah, roughly. Roughly. So don't you think it's interesting that she announces now at the beginning of September. I was like, this is crazy. So they're like, all right, she got two more months. Get her up out of it. A month and a half because as they look at the next season, yeah, you have to talk about you. I and so this means the search for the next commissioner has been going on for a long time. And so this is the first time I've ever been in this conversation. It's probably for a long time on our show. I wonder if any of the candidates we thought would be he wanted someone who had a business I can make makes perfect sense and in shot up to neck of her saying, I couldn't gloom again when she was on the show. She was like, I don't know if I'm qualified. I was like, that's such a humble thing. A man would take that job in a second. Oh boy, would be like, yeah, no, no, no, no, no, no, boy. I used to serve burgers. Give me in. You know, I'm like, neck, I'm like, neck, you can do this. I'm like, you can do this. It is of a man.

40:05Neck of you can do this. But I'm really curious as to who the obviously next question is, what's the makeup? Obviously we want someone who has a business background, but I think more importantly now, we need a face. We need to find someone who can come up and have a conversation, a comfortable conversation. And no, they don't have to be a best friend. But you got to know who your all stars are, right? You got to know who your key players are. You got to develop relationships. You got to do it. Yes. Because that was the thing that was exposed is that she didn't have that. Because she's not a, she's a, she's a corporate person. Sometimes those corporate personalities, I was reading something about corporate person, especially like, and I don't know what her baby boomer, Jim, Genex corporate personalities, elder Genex to, like they're just a different, they move differently. You know what I mean? They just do. And they, you know, so, so maybe you need, I'm not saying you need somebody young, but you do need somebody younger, but you do need somebody who can have that conversation. Real sharp, you know what I mean? Who can walk in the room and, and even if you are a white person, right?

41:07I don't make this a race issue. You, it doesn't matter. Is it somebody who can talk to people? I think this with their way. Yeah, because at this point, you need someone who can help, who can help you change their narrative, who can help you establish a different narrative about the, about the W. So this is going to be interesting. Listen, the name you brought up the last time we talked about, to be served. Alison Feister and, and not that it has to be a former player because it doesn't, but I think Alison is the perfect mix. She is a former player. Yeah. But she's also someone who has front office, amazing experience. It's, you know, like generally speaking in these positions, they don't necessarily lean into somebody that the, that the players like because that's not actually the goal of the commissioner. So somebody to have a relationship with the players who can develop a relationship with the players, but they don't want somebody to play or friendly. I mean, Swin would be somebody to me that would be, I was going to say that.

42:08Swin would be perfect. I was going to say that. Yeah. Yeah, but I think that they would probably, at their level, worry that like she was too much of like a, of a player's person to where they might feel a little, yeah, because you're going to work for the owners, which means that their things that you, you want to have a separation, you want to one who is more front office than more player friendly? Is that what you know? No, I think they probably would want somebody less player friendly because at one point, you know, as Nekka told us in that interview, what I think we'll be out next week is that, you know, their CBA is six years, six, seven years. That's what it is. So you're thinking about who is this person going to be at the negotiation table? And, you know, the job of the commissioner is to get the best deal for the lead, not for the players. So that's how I was like, there's, there's got to be a little bit more to that. Yeah, Buffy drops some stuff in the chat here is.

43:08So NBA commissioner Adam Silver, praise Inglebird in the statement released by the NBA. Kathy has presided over the WNBA through the most significant period of growth in the league's 30 year history. We are grateful for Kathy's leadership and unwavering commitment to the advancement of women's basketball. Again, I think they graciously let her retire. Yeah. And by the way, she should want to retire. Because she was like, I'm like, I'm on set. I'm like, I'm good. I don't want to deal with the with the Royce whites and the industry. Yeah, I got it. Yeah, I got it. So we do think, okay, so they've already, they've already hired their commissioner. They have to have that. I think so. You think the commissioner, you think they already have the person and yeah, there's just waiting to interview. Can you do a Pablo Tory finds out as we were just discussing? Can you do a Pablo Tory finds out? Let's go ask Pablo because you know where Pablo probably knows. I don't always going to be. She's probably trying to figure it out right now too, but like I want to know Pablo might

44:09know who it is. Just and going back to that conversation. First off, it's time. We all saw the writing on the wall. Kathy Inglebird. I'm going to go ask Pablo for your service. You know what I mean? We're good. We got it from here. Can I just get off this quick journalism rant? Is that go ahead? Here's the thing as we were talking about Pablo and this is not comfortable for me to say because I respect so many of the reporters who are at ESPN still find the good fight. So I don't want my comments to be a reflection of what I think of them as reporters. With that being said, this is when I talk about who's a journalism, who isn't. This is what I mean. The whole point of journalism is disruption. You are supposed to disrupt the people in power. You're supposed to make them uncomfortable and hold them accountable. That is the entire ethos of the profession. So when you don't do that, somebody's not watching this store.

45:10And if you're ESPN right now, you should feel embarrassed because you did what we're not supposed to do. You became the stenographer as opposed to the reporter. The stenographer just writes down what you say. And it was very clear that whatever information that they got, they clearly got it from the clippers. The clippers saying like, hey, they bought their narrative. Nothing's going to happen. Blah blah blah blah. And it's like, that's not what you do. It is not what you do. You're not paid to just regurgitate what they say. You're paid to find out what is actually going on. So as we've had this rolling conversation about what is the difference between the journalist, the influencer and the insider, this is the difference. Is that there was a journalist who was on watch and was like, is compel an insider slash journalist? I don't think pop is an insider at all. I think pop is a journalist. I think he's an independent journalist.

46:12And because of the person, he's going, who he's going after. He's challenging the power structure and he's bringing reporting, new reporting to the table. When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and health captive for nine months. I survived and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart and these are the survivor files. I just remember this low taunting voice next to my ear saying, shut up, don't say anything. Every week I'm with survivors who lived through the unthinkable. I knew if he woke up without a doubt he was going to hurt me. I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed and I just started screaming. They are abducted, stalked, controlled and nearly silenced. But these aren't stories about what's taken from them.

47:13Their story is about what it takes to make it out alive. Listen to the survivor files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. On the new podcast, Solita, we share the messy reality of traveling alone as a woman. I can wait four hours for the next bus or this random dude is offering me a ride on his motorcycle. I choose option B. I'm Julie Beniero and I travel by myself because it's a rare space where I can say yes without asking anyone else first. I'm on a mission to reclaim the word Solita, trading the pity for possibility. Every time I tried to be alone, I kept meeting people and they were like, you smiled at us, not a lot of people smile around here. It's when you're alone that you're most receptive to the world as it is and not the lies you're sold about it. It can be a time where you push your limits, change your mind or wake up to a new version of yourself. So whether you're a solo travel veteran or you're too nervous to book your first trip,

48:16I hope you listen to Solita on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. If you're bookshelf and you're for you page are equally important to your personality, welcome home. This is Pro's Society, the weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for thought daughters, pop culture obsessives and anyone who thinks pride and prejudice and love island deserve the same level of discourse. I'm Eli Rallo and every week we're connecting the dots between books, the internet and the conversations everyone can't stop having. I'm going to have to look up this story. I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed on authors and your favorite book talk creators to the latest pop culture moments, nothing is off the table. It's like if you can hide some real messages inside compelling characters and that is a Trojan horse, whether you're looking for literary deep dives, smart pop culture conversations or a community of readers who love to think a little too much, you're in the right place.

49:17Listen to Pro's Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. See you between the pages. Didn't catch the latest Roland Martin unfiltered podcast. Here's what you missed. And the argument is, do you want to win? If you don't win, you have no power. It's real. Those are the very people who I always say vote against their own economic interests and they complained about the very thing they were seeing. It's wrong. I knew that the issue of transgender athletes was not going well with a lot of black men. Roland Martin unfiltered. I went off. I said, this is exactly what I'm talking about. You're going to scream at Chanel, but you don't want to see a black luxury company in the same bag. Catch Roland Martin's daily commentary on the black information network. 12 seats. Those are moving south. So if you Democrats, you don't wait to 23. You better be hitting the ground going hard in the south now.

50:19And download Roland Martin unfiltered on the iHot Radio app Apple Podcast. Wherever you get your podcasts. You know the feeling. You make a pick in your fantasy draft in the entire room groans because they wanted that player. Or you grab a small school rookie off waivers and you start him right before he goes off in primetime. There's no better feeling than crushing your fantasy football league. I'm JJ Zacharyson, host of the late round fantasy football podcast. Before your draft, our players to target and players to avoid episodes tell you exactly who to circle and who to cross off. We've got data driven analysis, historical trends in the strategies that separate winners from the rest. And your dominance doesn't stop with the draft. All season long, we have our 15 transactions, 10 trends, sleepers and the mail back, data driven, quick hitting episodes to help bring home that league trophy. Listen to the late round fantasy football podcast on the iHot Radio app Apple Podcast. Or wherever you get your podcasts.

51:19Do you think that the slash insiders and reporters who, I don't know who was attached to the ESPN story where it said the clippers did nothing wrong. Who was attached to that? It was a thing to ask. I know right. It's like no. I know. Sorry. Yeah, let me see. And this is we're talking about the role of insiders, right? So, Shoms broke this story, right? He broke the story about Kathy Ingleberg as he has broken the other news as it relates to the NBA. And I'm sure right now is some WNBA reporters who cover this every day who probably a little bit that he was the one that broke the fact that that she is stepping down or she is retiring as in Kathy Ingleberg. Yeah. You know, when you're in, can you mind if I'm going to look up a little bit of the story? You don't mind if I look up the who did it clipper. You don't mind if I look up the who did it? Who did it? Who was the by lines that were on that story?

52:22But here's the thing is that when you're an insider, you are paid to know what is happening inside the league, hence the term insider. Yeah. The thing is your relationships sort of depend on you probably being a little more favorable than you should be. Because that is how that's why the coaches are telling you things. That's why the players are that's why the agents are telling you things. That's why the league is telling you things because it depends on a certain amount of camaraderie that you're supposed to have with them. And of course, I guess ironic all of this is happening as the athletic release their report about Diana Rossini and Mike Raeble. I know. Yeah. Wow. I can't find out what reporter I can't find the reporter's name on the ESPN story. Maybe Buff can look that up for us. I know. What did it. Yeah. So they didn't get to at least from what I read.

53:23They're not for the people who, you know, we're all into the solaceousness of it. It's like, no, they're not telling you whether or not there was an affair or not an affair. But what they did say is that they felt like there was a cotaconda that was violated. Absolutely. And but they did not find that that cotaconda that was violated, impacted how she reported it on you. And by the way, I also agree with that as well. I know that you surprised me. Yeah. But they, they, they, they, they, they're just so much here. Like it's just, you know, the truth is set you free, but it'll piss you off first. And I just, I feel like I just, I just, I feel like the piss and people are all going to go. No, I just feel like this, the whole, that, that story too. Like I think in real time, I think a lot of people and all and different professions are figuring out who they are. The, the, the scene knows better. Oh, you just know better. If you're having any kind of intimate relationship with anybody, you can't be sitting and having,

54:24you know, one on one interviews with them, like it's no big deal. You can't, you know, throw parties with them. That relationship is no longer that's if anything, that relationship should be in private. It should never be a issue. Outside of the fact, say if she was single, because you mean we've seen a lot of people in our business, Mary athletes or Mary coaches while working, we've seen a lot of that, although things happen vice versa, men and women, I've, I've worked with men who ended up, you know, marrying different athletes, female athletes. It doesn't happen often. I've worked with women who single, no, no, Hanky, Banky, ended up marrying, like Sam ponder. She was saying something before she married Christian Christian, former, former, yes, former, and if I'll quote her back, I'll forget what her last name was. They met while covering, while covering sports, she said they had a relationship. They ended up getting together, married, fine. We can name people where this has happened and it hasn't been scandalous. But I felt like, you know, what it's, what's coming up is that they, they kind of, you

55:26know, had a real relationship, like a real relationship. And whether that affected her reporting or not. I wish that they just would have brought it all to the table. You understand what I'm saying? Like, it sounds crazy. But you see how he still kept his job and she's banished into, you know, I don't know, when will we see her again? I mean, for now, I guess you could say, oh, in real quick. So, Buffy dropped the link to the story, the rip-sale. Well, Sam steel, that was her, that was her name before she became. Oh, Sam steel. Sam steel. Yes, thank you. Yeah, that was rough. I thought that as it relates to the Clippers and these are three reporters who I think are exceptional. It was Don Benad, Don Benad, a junior. No. And he's an amazing investigative reporter, Baxter Holmes, great reporter, Ramona Shale Barber. That who is reported that they were a remona, Ramona Baxter and Don. And they all reported that.

56:26They reported NBA has no evidence. Balmer funneled money to Leonard VS sponsors. And I'm like, where is the sound? Where is the sound? She dropped it in our group chat to say, you know, yeah, I mean, the leading paragraph, the NBA has found no evidence showing the LA Clippers owner Steve Balmer funneled money through team sponsors to pay Kawaii Leonard in order to circumvent the salary cap according to three people with knowledge of discussions between the two sides and recent. Well, you know how Pablo described this this morning. And he was on a whole world tour. We did. Yeah, because he's a victory lamb right now. He said he was at a right and he was on morning Joe. He went on Dan Patrick. He went on rich. Oh, and then I was on Levitard. I feel like he's on Levitard, obviously. But he said everyone says, so how does ESPN miss the ball? Like how do they drop the ball in the story? And he said that by now he thinks all of the sources were in terms of whistleblowers, if

57:34you will, or people who wanted to share the information are his. And the more that the league started to investigate and the more that the, and the more that people started to pay attention to the story and the more he gathered, he said people weren't willing just to come on with their names of the line and share. And he feels like there are other people planted in different places to tell another story. And that's something that you have to be able to really, as you just talked about earlier, you have to discern that as a reporter. That's discernment. And that's also going with your gut. That's not a skill that people always perfect. And to be honest, my young, young journalism career, I used to get dude all the time by people who I actually believed. Like, you know, I'm not going to do it. I'm like, they all they said they, they ran out of money when the hurricane hit. And you know, I'm talking about local news. And then you go and you say, we've got to help the whole family. And then you find out they got money, you know, galore and they just run and scams. Like some of these things, you just learn over time. And Pablo was like, he thinks there were paid people or paid operatives, if you will, to tell you that.

58:35I could definitely tell ESPN that there's no wrongdoing here. Right. Look the other way. It's all smoke and mirrors. And so that is why these reporters, unfortunately, you know, people that we know and respect and have done really amazing work, really amazing work. That has to, that has to be like, if I were, if I were them, I would be on fire right now. Like piss me on believe because you don't know reporter wants to feel that way because now everybody's looking at you, like, oh, you're just carrying water for the league or you're just get, you know, like it damages your reputation. And so. And then you're sitting around like who are they have to be talking to those same sources and looking at them. What do you do in that case? Do you go back to the source and say, why'd you lie? I mean, you kind of, you, you kind of can't because you realize something, you just got to charge it to the game. And I've asked sources, I mean, I'm with you like as a young reporter, that has definitely happened to me where it's like you, you took a certain narrative or certain line, you

59:36trusted the person or people and you put it out there and you thought it was going to stand and then something counter that came out. And you're just like, I look stupid. And so. This is crazy. Yeah. I mean, listen, it's, what's the, the old journalism adage? If your mother says she loves you, contact three sources to verify it. That is, that is the old adage about journalism. I mean, you are, by the way, who's doing that? Like no one's doing that. Listen, to your parents, she loves me every conversation. Let me call my uncle to make sure that's right. Yeah, but like, are you checking your sources? Like, do you go to two or three? I mean, you know what, we need to apply, I need two or three people to verify. I need three people to verify. That's true. I really, really, I really, really do. And sometimes that does happen. I mean, it does happen. Like people go to more than one source. But the other thing too is, anytime somebody tells you something off the record, you have

1:00:37to understand what is their motivation for telling you this? What is the agenda behind it? It might be true, but it might be a reason because I've had plenty of players, coaches, whatever that told me some shit off the record. And they told me that because they were trying to put themselves at an advantage in some way. And I understood that. It also balanced out my reporting. Like a player may tell you some shit just so he can get a better contract. Well, yeah, yeah, like a coach may tell you some things because he wants a player off their team or he wants to. Yeah, you become the useful, not you per se, but you've become a useful idiot. Exactly. They want to use you for something. Yeah, correct. Of course, it happens all the time. And so it doesn't mean what they say is not true, but you have to consider that with what's the angle? What's the angle? What's the angle? What are they trying to get me to play into? I mean, it was by no surprise that, you know, bringing it to a team you love, the Lakers,

1:01:39that we started when the Mavericks decided to trade Luca. Suddenly, we started hearing stories about how out of shape he was. I mean, people have been saying that, but then the stories became more accurate about like, oh, this time he did this. And this time he did that because clearly, there's probably somebody in the Mavericks organization trying to justify what they did. So they start leaking details to reporters to create their own narrative. It's what happened. When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and health captive for nine months. I survived and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart and these are the survivor files. I just remember this low-taunting voice next to my ear saying, shut up, don't say anything. Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable.

1:02:40I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me. I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed and I just started screaming. They are abducted, stalked, controlled and nearly silenced. But these aren't stories about what's taken from them. Their story is about what it takes to make it out alive. Listen to the survivor files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. On the new podcast, Solita, we share the messy reality of traveling alone as a woman. I can wait four hours for the next bus or this random dude is offering me a ride on his motorcycle. I choose option B. I'm Julie Beniero and I travel by myself because it's a rare space where I can say yes without asking anyone else first. I'm on a mission to reclaim the word Solita, trading the pity for possibility. Every time I tried to be alone, I kept meeting people and they were like, you smiled at us,

1:03:44not a lot of people smile around here. It's when you're alone that you're most receptive to the world as it is and not the lies you're sold about it. It can be a time where you push your limits, change your mind or wake up to a new version of yourself. So whether you're a solo travel veteran or you're too nervous to book your first trip, I hope you listen to Solita on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. If you're bookshelf and you're for you page are equally important to your personality, welcome home. This is Pro's Society, the weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for thought daughters, pop culture obsessives and anyone who thinks pride and prejudice and love island deserve the same level of discourse. I'm Eli Rallo and every week we're connecting the dots between books, the internet and the conversations everyone can't stop having. I'm going to have to look up this story. I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed. I'm best selling authors and your favorite book talk creators to the latest pop culture

1:04:45moments. Nothing is off the table. It's like if you can hide some real messages inside compelling characters and that is a Trojan horse, whether you're looking for literary deep dives, smart pop culture conversations or a community of readers who love to think a little too much, you're in the right place. Listen to Pro's Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. See you between the pages. Didn't catch the latest Roland Martin unfiltered podcast. Here's what you missed. And the argument is, do you want to win? If you don't win, you have no power. It's real. Those are the very people who I always say vote against their own economic interests and they complained about the very thing they were seeing. It's wrong. I knew that the issue of transgender athletes was not going well with a lot of black men. Roland Martin unfiltered. I went off. I said, this is exactly what I'm talking about.

1:05:45Y'all go scream at Chanel, but you don't want to see a black luxury company in the same back. Catch Roland Martin's daily commentary on the black information network. 12 seats. Those are moving south. So if you Democrats, you don't wait to 23. You better be hitting the ground going to heart in the south now. And download Roland Martin unfiltered on the iHot Radio app Apple Podcast. Wherever you get your podcasts. College football will hijack your weekend, ruin your sleep and break your heart. And that's why we make the Sullivan-verbal college football show. I'm Ty Hildenbrand. He's Dan Rubenstein. How's it going? Every week we preview the games that matter, sort through the biggest storylines and tell you what to watch before kickoff. There's a lot to keep track of. Who's for real? Which upset is hiding in plain sight and which storyline is about to take over your group chat. And when the games are over, join us in the aftermath too. We're going to react to what happened, talk about the biggest results.

1:06:47Of course we'll cover the playoff picture and all the little details you might have missed while flipping between like 12 games at once. Whether you know every coach and coordinator or just want to understand why everybody is yelling, we're here to help make sense of the madness. Listen to the Solid Verbal College football show on the iHeart Radio App, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. It is a very interesting thing that I, with this Pablo story, and again, Pablo, you deserve the Pulitzer. Congratulations on your reporting. You and I talk about this all the time. In this business, you got to have a certain type of skin. Because I was told that Pablo was so put out by that ESPN story because people started to doubt him. And they tried to tell him that he was just starting trouble. You have to realize because he doesn't have the big four letters behind him.

1:07:52And so it was just his independent reporting based on some sources he had spoken to and he's changing things. And quite let you know, and the nature, let's just be honest. He's not always going to be right. It doesn't happen all the time. There have been things where I'm sure Pablo has even admitted. I missed on that one. So he was, he said he was in this place where he knew people were like questioning him and he was just like, I'm just going to wait it out. And it was the best thing you can do is just wait it out, you know, because then he started to get more information. People started to tell him more information. And then he said the league was like, when is this going to be over? Why? Because he said he's paraphrasing. He felt like the league was like every day there's a new story about what the clippers are doing. There's always some new reparations because I wasn't following it as clear, but I was in my mind like, dang, Pablo put not a lot of information. And then he said it would as we now know deeper than what he even thought, but the league was just tired of hearing about it. So that's when they did their own thing.

1:08:53And I mind, I'm like, yo, this is wild to me. And congratulations to him for having the stick with it, Nis, if that's such a word. And the wherewithal to still stay true to his sources and believe instinctually that there is something here. Like, he was like, no matter what, there's something here. Like, what if it's not $48 million? What if it's $10 million? Whatever the case may be, you're breaking the rules against the CB. You're not, you are doing something that you are not supposed to be doing. This is not what is allowed. And so I really, I could host him for that. Yeah. And in this business, old school journalist. And most importantly, for highlighting the fact that this kind of reporting still matters, that a lot of people were glued to the story. Investigative reporting is not cheap number one. And it's lengthy and it's time consuming. And it's a lot of things. That's why a lot of news networks have sort of abandoned. Don't do it. That's why they don't do it. But we have to have this lever in society.

1:09:54And I know it's really easy to always hate journalists and always say like, you guys are ruining blah, blah, blah, blah. But this is the function of how it was supposed to work. The reason the democracy works is because we have a free press. The point of the free press is to check the power. When we lose the ability to check the power, it is a devastating impact on everybody. So as we, as we wrap this up, Kerry, is there any word that you want to get off your chest about the interview with Stephen A? No, but I do want to say one last thing about what we have talked about. I've always thought journalism was dead this morning when I saw this story. I was like, it's still alive. And he reminded us to make me a joke. I'm like, I'm still better. Right. And it's like, especially in today's age, like everyone's like, you know, anybody can say anything, right? We just can. It's the officer in chief, the red man, the orange man has made people just not believe

1:10:56in the fourth of state. And it sometimes question makes you question it. And so I just got really excited that Pablo was able to do this. I'm very excited about this. And we're going to get you excited. Yes. So it's more importantly, it's like, I mean, I don't mean to take a shot at them, but this is why you can't have an influencer perading as a journalist. What made you say that though? Well, because I don't want the influencers to think I dislike them, but because I have a lot of respect for a lot of the content that they create, but this is the difference between an influencer and a journalist. Well, they're okay. I don't want to get into a debate, but there is an influencer online that ever hears why Kevin. Oh, yeah, yeah. But he said he calls. Yes, I know. But he does. I don't necessarily think he investigates, but he is okay with getting information out. To me, what he does is interesting, right? He's not a journalist, but he is in that.

1:11:57Yeah, but he's still in that space, right? Where he is still bringing, and I believe it feels credible information. Maybe it's not always accurate at 100%, but it feels credible to me. So I don't, this is where I always get confused as to as our business and why it's changing, because people go to him as a verified source. Yeah, what I would say is that I think this is where I think influencers are tremendous, is that their ability to break down the information or information in a digestible way, I think is pretty special, is different. You know, I'm thinking about certain influences that are on up here. Yeah, like their ability to do that, that is what separates them from what maybe journalists do. Like yeah, they're getting facts and all those kind of things, but they're able to really put the information in a way that's impactful that people are like, oh, I get why this is important. They're able to draw awareness and attention, and that is necessary with this.

1:13:01But I do think that there is a bit of a difference when it comes to interviewing, to getting to the bottom of things, to the investigative nature of it, that is very different. And so I'm happy that Pablo, not just with this story, because I mean, you know, one of the other great stories that he has done that didn't get as much attention as this, but he got a lot of attention was when he broke down Riley Gaines and transgender athletes. Oh, yeah. Yeah, it was excellent reporting. Yeah, it was because you were to actually talk to transgender. You know, you know the one story where I felt away, and that was purely because I am a fan was his Kobe story. Oh, yeah. A Kobe Memorial. And whether or not LeBron was there. Yeah. Do you remember that? I do remember that. And it was, and it was like, people said they saw LeBron. I swear, I thought I saw LeBron there. I was there. But the reality, I think what happened was, it was like, wait, why are we, because it then

1:14:06got into what was that relationship? Why didn't you show up? You know, and I was like, oh, this gets so uncomfortable. You know what I mean? Because the person passed away, right? That was the only time where I was like, that might be a miss. Everything else. And this, that was just my attitude. I got you. Yeah, yeah, I got this. I was talking about the dead. Yeah. Yeah. This is way, you know, sorry, as we get ready to wrap, I know nothing else to get off my chest about that Sevenate interview. But I do know that there's a worldwide debate now suggesting I wanted Molly's job. And I just want to know the debate. She did not want it. She did not want that job. I did not want that job back. And I know that, and this is when I know that I always have to, and you guys all know, God bless that man. He can cap and he can sell it too. You know what I mean? But he, and in my mind, he was saying something. He, I think he thinks happened. He thinks that we had a conversation. You know, we had a conversation. We pulled out the phone on it. It was like, let me tell you the last thing. And then that text, to be honest with you, because I went and looked back and I was like, I probably wanted to gossip.

1:15:07I probably wanted to like, what happened? I would say like, you know what happened? I didn't do the job. I was calling to gossip, like, also, like, what happened? The y'all fire you give us the money? What happened? Like I, you know, like, yeah, it's, like, for him to assume that that's why you got is crazy. But it's the same way, but that is crazy. It is so insane. And it's almost the same story with, um, he was like surprised that I wasn't talking to him for 10 years about what was going on on the show. I don't know how much I believe that either. But again, it's, uh, the two, it's, it's definitely one of these stories where we will always agree to disagree, which is why I said that at the beginning of the show. I was like, we don't agree to disagree. God bless, Stephen A, but I'm not signing up for you to yell at me on camera and tell me not to do it. I'm not signing up for that. Who signing up for that abuse? You know, and maybe that is, uh, because as you, you know, what you left ESPN and for people who didn't understand the time, like you did first take and then you went on

1:16:08the sports center. You left ESPN in 2020, right? And so more people to understand this is like, I guess in the time since you left there, you haven't, I, I, I, I, I protection, by the way, my costarily says, what does it pay? I'll sign up. And don't pay it. I know. And I don't know. Yeah. Not for you, but you want to know where you might. You, you, you never just be right. You think we bet. Oh my God. Yeah, no, but that's a job for, it's an entry job. It's a high platform. You need a lot of people, but it's a job where you have to have a certain amount of patients and understanding. And that goes for people at different stages in their career. I honestly think, even though I don't know the particulars of why Molly left, no one's ever shared that with us. And she's never ever talked. Yeah. But I think that's what was going on with her. Like, you know, she was on a show for almost, I think I'm making it. I think she did 10 years. I think she did. She did. That's an incredible amount of time. That's a long time for that. But she did what one or two years was given.

1:17:10Then she had, Calermann and then she had, now it's just, it was, I guess it was her and myself. I don't know the particulars. But my point is, that's a long time to do that job, that particular job. If you want to do a lot more freedom than you have, because I made sure she changed. Yeah. Exactly. Everything about the show change. Yeah. I think she probably got it. It's not, I don't know, I don't want to speak for her. But I just know that for her to leave abruptly, something else happened. And I could only imagine, because I had shared that seat. I understand that in different circumstances, but I can only imagine. My point being is who's signing up for that, not me. No. I was like, I'm not doing that. That's what I was saying. There was certain things I could, I could put in a bank and bank, what I was like, you were never going to do that. I just was like, oh my grandmother's grave, made she rest in peace, sir. And when you put it on grandma, it was for real. It was for real. It was for real. So my friend is like, it's for real.

1:18:11And I hope people understood that part of it. And it's a huge debate now online. I've literally gotten so many alerts. People like actually think this is true. They're clippie and they're like, they're like, clip vote, yes, vote new. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no. That was the case. This is the part of the internet I hate. You know what I mean? Yeah, when they just were worse for less, my game lying. He's like, wait a second, I've done worse for less. Costarily, you right. Going up there and get to that. You need to be behind to be the moderator. Although they do have somebody shake or not, but like, maybe throw your head in the ring. Costarily. I'm going to lay chest hair and get little curls and see what I have. Costarily, put it in perspective. People have done far worse for less. So this is a, and I'm not taking away that. That's a dream job. These are first world problems. That's a dream job for many, for most. So you absolutely right, costarily going into it. And I'll give you a letter of referral. I don't know how far that would get you. You would give him a letter of referral.

1:19:12Yeah. I get it. You really, I would. Like if you want somebody who will have his shirt buttons down like three, like he's like, he's like a three button guy. I think like with three. You have to keep that. You don't have to keep that. You go on at the bus show. Yeah. You don't have to wear a right. It's almost a sex sale. You have to bring that shirt up. But you're right about here. When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and health captive for nine months. I survived. And I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart. And these are the survivor files. I just remember this low taunting voice next to my ear saying, shut up. Don't say anything. Every week, I'm with survivors who lived through the unthinkable. I knew if he woke up without a doubt, he was going to hurt me. I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed and I just started screaming.

1:20:18They are abducted, stalked, controlled and nearly silenced. But these aren't stories about what's taken from them. Their story is about what it takes to make it out alive. Listen to the survivor files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. On the new podcast, Solita, we share the messy reality of traveling alone as a woman. I can wait four hours for the next bus or this random dude is offering me a ride on his motorcycle. I choose option B. I'm Julie Piñero and I travel by myself because it's a rare space where I can say yes without asking anyone else first. I'm on a mission to reclaim the word Solita, trading the pity for possibility. Every time I tried to be alone, I kept meeting people and they were like, you smiled at us, not a lot of people smile around here. It's when you're alone that you're most receptive to the world as it is and not the lies you're sold about it. It can be a time where you push your limits, change your mind or wake up to a new version

1:21:23of yourself. So whether you're a solo travel veteran or you're too nervous to book your first trip, I hope you listen to Solita on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. If you're a bookshelf and you're for you page are equally important to your personality, welcome home. This is Pro's Society. A weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for thought daughters, pop culture obsessives and anyone who thinks pride and prejudice and love island deserve the same level of discourse. I'm Eli Rallo and every week we're connecting the dots between books, the internet and the conversations everyone can't stop having. I'm going to have to look up this story. I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed. From bestselling authors and your favorite book talk creators to the latest pop culture moments, nothing is off the table. So if you can hide some real messages inside compelling characters and that is of Trojan horse, whether you're looking for literary deep dives, smart pop culture conversations or

1:22:25a community of readers who love to think a little too much, you're in the right place. Listen to Pro's Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. See you between the pages. Didn't catch the latest Roland Martin unfiltered podcast. Here's what you missed. And the argument is, do you want to win? If you don't win, you have no power. It's real. Those are the very people who I always say vote against their own economic interests and they complained about the very thing they were seeing. It's wrong. I knew that the issue of transgender athletes was not going well with a lot of black men. Roland Martin unfiltered. I went off. I said, this is exactly what I'm talking about. We all go scream at Chanel, but you don't want to see a black luxury company in the same bank. Catch Roland Martin's daily commentary on the black information network. 12 seats. Those are moving south.

1:23:25So if you Democrats, you don't wait to 2030. You better be hitting the ground, going to heart in the south now. And download Roland Martin unfiltered on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts. Wherever you get your podcasts. You know the feeling. You make a pick in your fantasy draft in the entire room, groans, because they wanted that player. Or you grab a small school rookie off waivers and you start him right before he goes off in prime time. There's no better feeling than crushing your fantasy football league. I'm JJ Zacharyson, host of the Late Round Fantasy Football Podcast. Before your draft, our players to target and players to avoid episodes tell you exactly who to circle and who to cross off. You got data-driven analysis, historical trends, and the strategies that separate winners from the rest. And your dominance doesn't stop with the draft. All season long, we have our 15 transactions, 10 trends, sleepers, and the mail back. Data-driven, quick hitting episodes to help bring home that league trophy.

1:24:25Listen to the Late Round Fantasy Football Podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, now that we've got all these new listeners and followers of Castarelli, we have to put you out here, you know. You got to pop up on camera so they do see you. You got to pop up on camera and look, show the ladies. Wait, you know what we didn't even do? You know what we also didn't do while we discussed in the breakdown of the show. We didn't talk about how many followers we got overnight. How? The first trailer went to, went from, had, over a million and a half views, that very first trailer, shout out to G.B. Who put that together. We had, and that is the box office of Stephen A. First of all, we're very interested in that conversation, but that's when you say to him, that's the box office of Stephen A. Smith. No one has ever denied that. Now I don't think we've ever denied that. No, we understood. We understood the gravity of that. Yeah. We understood the gravity of the moment.

1:25:26And no one, and the conversation, y'all don't, y'all don't respect him and you don't appreciate it. And you're just like, and y'all not grateful. And you're just like, wait, what? No one, why, how did we get all of that in for, can I tell you? I hate that word grateful. I knew you were going to be pissed off. Why do you hate that word grateful? Why do you hate the word grateful? I hate the word grateful because it's often frankly used as it relates to women and definitely black people in general. Because that, you can be appreciative. Like I like that word better. Okay. So do we appreciate the attention, right, that he was able to bring to the show. And he knew, and he knew that, and he knew that. Like yes, we appreciate that. He did not have to do it and he certainly didn't have to give us that much time. But grateful. Grateful is a little different. What's the difference between appreciation? Because I think that they're appreciative to me is acknowledgement. Grateful is almost like you have to stand and I don't agree in every context.

1:26:27Yeah, wait, the buffy said a grateful sounds thirsty. It kind of, it's not even a thirst thing. It's a sort of well, in, in servitude type of thing. And I'm not saying it's always used in that context. But in this particular context, I want people to understand like we knew him being on our show would be a big moment. Like we acknowledge that. Before he was on the show, we acknowledge and we're appreciative of the type of unique TV talent that he is. And we also, and we also, we also, I think we went in with a lot of, not necessarily agendas, but we went in knowing yes, he would bring some time and attention. But I know for me, when I was there, I was in it. I wasn't worried about who going to say what I was thinking about life. I wasn't thinking about life. I didn't give a shit about that, frankly. If we're honest, I, people, no matter what I thought personally or felt personally, the conversation was really an exercise in people being able to have uncomfortable

1:27:28moments. No matter high and low, people don't always stay even when they're having uncomfortable moments. I didn't come in acting. I'm just my, am I on a self to a fault, right? I don't know how to pretend to perform for anybody. I don't. But I felt like people were just having everything we said. I mean, you and I, at least to my knowledge, was an honest thought that we have had before. And I think he came in willing to remain even, but he's still animated, right? So his animation is an emotion, which we're going to do another day. His animation is just an emotional emotional. So but I thought that that was very fair. I do think, though, Jamel, what was, what was what we didn't say to was that there are people who really felt like that was just a very vulnerable conversation that helped. You know what I mean? That it good for the community. I wouldn't walk away saying, Stephen A and I are best friends now. I wouldn't walk away saying that I would say we are friendly. You know, which is what you said before we had the conversation, right?

1:28:29That's what you said before then. But then also, I think something else gained from it is if he says something that we're critical of, actually, and you could tell me if I'm crazy for thinking this, I actually think he will take it less personally. Yeah. I think he will. I think he, there is no win talking through the internet. There just isn't. And I told you, there are a lot of people who are like, I don't know why you, oh, that's what I'm talking about. A lot of people who said, why did you give them a platform? You and I had somebody text us and tell us, yeah, that wasn't good that we gave them. Somebody that we considered a friend told us that it wasn't good to have them on our platform and that someone who's famous, even for that matter, who said that to us. And I was just like, I, I didn't respond. You did. How did you respond? I didn't respond. I didn't respond. I didn't respond. I didn't respond. I didn't respond. I didn't respond. I didn't respond. You did. How did you respond? Well, I explained the fact that, you know, we didn't think of Stephen A as, you know, we know how the internet in the public is. There are some people who just are very convinced about and very strong and how they feel about

1:29:31him in either direction. And I think you and I, because we have a history of working, you working directly with him, me working sort of alongside him. But because of that history, we might look at him a little bit differently than most people do. That's not to suggest that we were not critical and that we didn't have an issue with some of the things. So to me, he was somebody, it felt like we can have a conversation with and I explained that to this person. It's very different than other people. Like, for example, I'm a Thorie out here because she inserted her ass into my business sort of. Oh. Right. Like, I don't give a fuck about talking to stage seal. Like no, the answer to me would be a hard no. She calls me and she says she wanted to be your friend. No. The answer would be a hard no. Right? Like that's a different thing. Right? We're not, it's not even about whom she is politically, which yes, we are diametrically opposed.

1:30:32I diametrically oppose her as a person. Okay. Like that is different. Yeah. Stephen A, I did not have that same level of dislike. I think I'm going to watch him more carefully. I'm going to watch his show more carefully. I think that I saw the next day he talked about Laura Loomer. He hasn't mentioned us on his show. I don't think I didn't. I don't think so. I know he talked about Laura Loomer. They put together, he put together his team put together, a trailer of him being on the show, something that I said. I don't know if you saw it. It's on his page. And it's me saying that I hope that this season in your life is just a season and you can course correct. And then of course he had to say whatever he said. And so my point being was that it was, I think that we accomplished something. I just still feel like it's, you got to let it, I don't know what it was yet. It's okay to not do my thing. Yeah. I think it's a process. Because you got to let it marinate and see what it looks like and what the reaction is and the fallout is and the conversations that happen afterwards.

1:31:33We do now have his phone number. We have his right number. We got his right number now. So now that we have his correct information, he needed to reach out to him and say what we need to say. And you know what, you know what I'm going to do? I promise. It's like every, like when he does something that I'm going to be, you know, critical about or irritates me in some way, I'm going to text him every single time, every single time Stephen A. And I'm going to be like, I'm just going to know tomorrow. I'm flaming you. Not, not you again. Okay. So I don't know if you saw his tweet about us, but his tweet. I'm not a Twitter. Ha ha, LOL. LOL. That was just so brilliant. He posted a clip from the show and he said, heard, understood and I still stand on this. We should be able to discuss what we see, challenge what we don't agree with and keep the conversation going. Thank you, Flagrant and funny for real all caps dialogue. Interesting. When he posted that yesterday, I think and I then retweeted what he said and put it

1:32:38at my own thoughts on it. I said completely agree. And now that we actually have your correct phone number, I promise to text you before I roast you. Oh, that's funny. I was like, this is a joke for people who don't get the imaginary sarcasm. I mean, but not, but I'm for real though. Yeah. No, I know. That's funny. I'm texting you to tell you I'm roasting you. So you can't ever. So maybe that's what we've accomplished. That's what we accomplished. Yay. All right. It was nice doing the TV show with you. I mean, the podcast which you welcome to new followers, welcome to new folks. Thank you for listening to Flagrant and funny. Now that you're here, you're going to enjoy it because we really are funny. We got a whole lot of new folk that are on us. And just so people know is that Monday is Labor Day, we ain't nobody's supposed to be working. Right. Anybody working on Monday, anybody working on Monday, that includes us. So no part on Monday. And Wednesday is when you will hear that interview that we have with Nekka Gumake, who is playing

1:33:41in her last game later this month. Yeah. Is it Wednesday? Uh, Wednesday is when our interview is with her is running. Okay. That'll be the first five back. You'll see that and it's a great interview and Nekka is one of our favorite folks. So you can look forward to that. So anyway, but thank you for the followers. We got a whole bunch now, Carrie. So I guess we got to take this seriously. Well, I don't want the ones that told us we can't, we too emotional. We emotional over here. We women. Remember men aren't emotional. Yeah. You're right. We, we, we too emotional. So we'll be less emotional. Flagrant and funny is an I Heart Women's Sports production. Losers are Michael Cascarelli and Buffy Gorella. Our editor is Michael Cascarelli. Our executive producer is Jesse Katz and this show is hosted by us. Jamal Hill and Carrie Champion. Didn't catch the latest Roland Martin unfiltered podcast. Here's what you missed. There should not be a single law enforcement agency that does not have body cameras.

1:34:45It's real. Black farmers have been under attack. This is just the latest example of them just slapping DEI on anything. It's raw. And I'm sitting here going. They are playing y'all for foes. Catch Roland Martin's daily commentary on the Black Information Network. And download Roland Martin unfiltered on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast. Or wherever you get your podcasts. Whether you're a seasoned NFL fan or new to the game, there's one place to keep up with all of it. The league's newest podcast. The NFL report posted by me, Andrew Siciliano. It's your home for everything football. Breaking news, expert analysis, game picks, and here from your favorite players too. Join me at an all-star cast of experts for everything you need to know from around the league. Get new episodes of the NFL report Monday through Friday, all season long. Listen to the NFL report podcast on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. The entire draft room groans because you just took the guy they wanted. There's no better feeling than crushing your fantasy football league.

1:35:48I'm JJ Zacharyson, host of the award-winning late-round podcast. Before your draft, our players to target and players to avoid episodes tell you exactly who to circle and who to cross off. Listen to the late-round fantasy football podcast on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Mike Am. And I'm Trevor Sicima, and together we host the NFL Fantasy Football Show. Are you ready to dominate your fantasy league this season? Because if you aren't locked in with us on the NFL Fantasy Football Show, you're already playing from behind. Whether you're a first-time player or a grizzled vet chasing another championship, we give you the advantage and the confidence you need to make every move count. Listen to the NFL Fantasy Football Show on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. The college football will hijack your weekend, ruin your sleep, and break your heart. And that's why we make the Solid Verbal College football show. I'm Ty Hildenbrand.

1:36:48He's Dan Rubenstein. Every week we preview the games that matter in the storylines that are going to ignite your group chat. And you can join us in the aftermath as we react to what happened, why it matters, and how the sport went completely bonkers yet again. Listen to the Solid Verbal College football show on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.