When Politics Divides the Ummah - A Practical Guide to Sectarian Tensions

0:00this audio is brought to you by Muslim Central. We're going to finish off with the issue of sectarianism. When two entities are at war, and the one is Sunni, the other is Shia scholars on both sides, exacerbate the tensions. Sunni and Shia, they've been around for 1,350 years. You think you're gonna solve it in Dallas, Texas? Any group that thinks it is permissible to beat or kill other people who disagree with them? We cannot tolerate them. Having a different opinion doesn't make you a gaffer. Politics plays a role in much of sectarianism. Nazam al-Mulk commissioned Ghazali to write a refutation of the Isna'ilis. Eman, spirituality will not be fortified by destroying the faith of other people. Bismillah alhamdulillah, wa salatu wa salam wa ala Rasulillah, wa ala aalihi wa s-sahbihi, wa men wa la amma bad. So inshallah, we're going to finish off with the issue of sectarianism. On a personal note, this is one of the areas I personally love. We can speak very long about sectarianism, but obviously time is limited.

1:02And so we need to move on to our next session. And there's also going to be inshallah, an exciting announcement at the end of our class. So we were talking about some practical words of advice about how to deal with the variety within the umma. And I'm gonna continue from where I left off by teaching you some maximum some rules. Because my goal is to teach you knowledge that will benefit you for the rest of your life. I don't wanna go over different groups, different theologies at this stage. It's not what we're here for. I wanna teach you maxims and principles that every time a disagreement comes, Shallah, you've taken notes yesterday last week, taken notes today, or at least watch it and take notes from there. So that no matter what situation arises, you will have a template to deal with the diversity of thought. So continuing from last week, I think it had four or five issues last week. So today and Shallah wanna continue from where we left off and I'm gonna mention the next rule.

2:02And that is know that sectarianism almost always has political or institutional fermentation behind it. Understand that you are generally speaking being utilized in a battle far beyond you and the guy you're talking to about the various groups out there. What do I mean by this? There's two types of people who ferment hatred. Number one, political entities. And number two, innocent, perhaps gullible people who get caught up in those political wars and battles. Generally speaking, intramuslim fights have people and I'm not being conspiratorial, I'm just being historical here. That want to exacerbate that fight not because of theology but because of politics. History shows us the most obvious example.

3:06Sunnisia, polemics, flares up when the Sunni world and the Shia world are having a political spat. This has always happened throughout all of history. That doesn't make Sunnis or Shias and write her wrong. I'm just telling you, when two entities are at war and the one is Sunnis, the other is Shia, surprise, surprise, scholars on both sides exacerbate the tensions. Just I'm asking you to be aware of it. That's it, doesn't mean it's right or wrong. Does it mean that the one side becomes innocent or not? I'm simply saying that history has shown us. For example, one of the most bitter situations to arise between Sunnis and Shias and took place when the Sephavid Empire and the Ottoman Empire were having a full out war with one another. This is 500 years ago. In fact, many historians say that the current Sunnisia hatred taking place has its roots in the Ottoman Sephavid battle of 500 years ago

4:07because that wasn't just one battle. It was a battle of many decades, multiple dynasties. It was like a four or five decade battle. Multiple generations were at it at each other's strokes and it was not coincidentally at that time frame. That many Sunnis scholars are the Ottoman lands and many Shias scholars in the Sephavid lands. They wrote tracks, treatises, books, refutations that basically made Tukfidah each other. Now question to you, do you think politics played no role? Coincidentally, it just so happened that the Sunnis of the Ottoman lands discovered there's something called 12-ishism. I'm not accusing them of being evil. I'm not accusing them of being paid ages. I'm simply saying, as I have kept on telling you, humans are products of their time and place. Humans cannot get out of the time. Just like right now, we're looking at xenophobia. We're looking at Islamophobia. Right now, all of us are concerned about gender issues. Our great-grandmothers couldn't care less about gender issues because it wasn't on their social paradigm to discuss.

5:08We're born in a time and place where certain issues take center stage and that impacts how we look at the world. Okay, all I'm saying, sectarianism is no different. It's no different at all. And generally speaking, when two entities of different sects, different groups have problems of a political nature, surprise, surprise, their scholars, exacerbate their tensions, innocent people, you and me, get swept up because we look up to those scholars. Right? And I'm not saying those scholars are evil. I'm not saying all of them are purchase and bought for it or no. I'm not saying that. I'm saying there's a political element, that's all. Right? So be aware of this. And we can go more and more. I mean, the very first time where the Ismaelis became a big deal was when Nazam al-Mulk basically, you know, the Ismaelis were becoming political agitators. They were becoming a fifth column. They were sending out assassins, the famous story of the Hashashiyun, the assassins. You can look it up. And so Nazam al-Mulk basically commissioned Ghazali

6:13to write a refutation of the Ismaelis. This was the first time that official Tekfi'r was made. Again, I'm not agreeing or disagreeing. I'm being historical. I'm just being historical here. Don't read in as many of my critics do. I'm teaching you facts. These are indubitable facts. That when the Ismaelis became a political threat and they did become a political threat, they became a fifth column. They wanted to assassinate the Khalifa and they wanted to have their own mini-Dynastane empire. Right? The Nazadids had their own empire. And the Karamita also before them. That was when Nazam al-Mulk literally asked Imam al-Ghazali, hey, I need your help. Can you explain who these people are and write a refutation of them? And I'm not doubting Ghazali at all. Ghazali researched them and Ghazali wrote the refutation of the Barthini Firka. If one of your famous books you can read it, it's translated into English. Refutation of the Barthonites. Who are the Barthonites? What we now call the predecessors of the Agachani's or the Bohra, they're the Barthonites.

7:15And he made clear contact with them. I'm not doubting he was sincere, not at all. Don't misquote me. But politics played a role. And you can't help but be a part of the zeitgeist that you're living in, the time of face you're living in. My PhD dissertation, you can read it. A PDF is available online and I've given library chats about this. The Sufi Salafi Divide. It goes back to the Ashadi Humbali Divide of the fourth century in Baghdad when the Saljuqs who were Ashadi entered Baghdad that was Humbali and there was a clash between the Khilafa that was Humbali and the Saljuq viziers that were Ashadi. And that clash was manifested in a Ashadi Athari fight which became the Sunni Salafi Divide to this day. When did it begin? Politics. When the Saljuq Empire was a threat to the Baghdadian institution and there were sectarian divides, sectarianism was fermented.

8:15It became bigger than it was before and it never died after that. So what is my point in telling you this? Don't be naive and one-dimensional. Don't be simplistic when somebody comes and says, those guys, those guys, those guys. That person might be sincere. Nine times out of 10, there are people above him. Nine times out of 10. This is not conspiratorial. There are people that have, I'm not even saying wrong, Nia, vested interests. Yes, vested interests in increasing the tension. That's all I'm asking you to do. So to be aware that politics plays a role in much of sectarianism and it's not even just politics, to be even more sad here, it's also about domain. It's also about power, it's also about wealth, it's also about control of the masses, right? You got two Madras says, one block from each other and there are different firqas, two messengers, one block from each other and there are different firqas. Listen guys, messengers are also businesses.

9:18Messengers need people to come. Messengers need donations. So in order to get donations, they have to dist the competitors. You can't even think about your own Nia when you are a cleric on that pulpit and the other group is different than you. Perhaps even you don't even know your hidden Nia when you make them a bigger deal than they really are. Because they're encroaching on your territory. They might potentially take your people away from you, right? The neighborhood is divided and instead of coming to your Halaqa, they're going to the other Halaqa. You don't even perhaps understand your own Nia where if you weren't in that neighborhood, it wouldn't be that big of a deal but now it becomes even bigger. Must you politics plays a role here, right? So all I'm saying be a little bit more deeper and don't be surface level. That is the next point. I don't even know what point we're on so you can write it down here. Shall I love that? Okay, moving on. Point number two for today. Let's just do today's number. Point number two for today.

10:20Now I need you to pay attention. This is a little bit complicated. I wish I had a diagram. This requires a diagram but it's quite simple, conceptually speaking. Anytime you disagree with somebody, I repeat anytime you disagree with somebody on any matter. I need you to pay attention. You automatically categorize that disagreement in a particular spectrum, a place on a box, the box is on a spectrum. Listen to me now. Some differences, you respect them. You will, somebody has an opinion that is maybe, quote, unquote, stricter than yours. You're like, oh, Masha Allah, okay. You respect that difference of opinion. That's one box. Another difference, move one level left to that box. You're neutral, you don't care. Okay. Food differences. You like hamburgers, they like Bideani. I mean, okay, no big deal. It's a difference of opinion. Sometimes even in Fikh-Kh-Theological issues, no big deal, okay, this and that.

11:21Another difference, you move a little bit more. You tolerate, you don't like it, but it's no big deal. Okay, that's another difference of opinion. You don't necessarily like it, but okay, I'll bear with it. We're friends and it's not a big deal to me, Khalas, that's your way, my way, okay. Yet another will be, you strongly disagree, but you can still remain friends, but they're not gonna be close friends because that disagreement means you're not gonna be close to me. But once in a while, we'll see each other, you know, we're two degrees of separation. You get my point here, right? Are you guys following me? Yet another would be that, that disagreement is so fundamental that because of it, I really cannot maintain a friendship with you. But if I see you at a gathering, I won't walk away from you, okay? You get my point here, we're going from one side, yet another will be so antagonistic that you cannot be in the same room as them. How can you invite this person? And by the way, this spectrum is not just religious, it's political as well, the cancel culture. I mean, we have people that if you support

12:23a particular candidate or particular policy in our eyes, that's a cancel culture, you cannot be in the same room as that person. How could you invite this person to this party? How could you invite him to this party? How dare you invite somebody who endorses that idea, right? Or you're like, oh my god, you invited him, okay, well, I'll just avoid him. You put somebody because of an opinion in a particular box, right? Are you guys following me? Are we exactly right? You have the spectrum of actual respect, you will respect an opinion different than your own, or most of our differences, no big deal, okay, it's your way, you're away my way, no big deal, neutral, or slight disagreement with your still be good friends, or strong disagreement with your friendly, or disagreement to the level of acquaintances, you get my point here, right? Now, here's the point, every single human being without exception has this box in their minds as they interact with people. You do and I do. Very few people analyze those boxes.

13:26Very few people think about them. Very few people reason in their own minds why somebody would be put in category A versus category B versus category C and so on and so forth. I am asking you, if you wanna really be intellectuals, you have to do that. Because when you do that, guess what you will discover? What do you think you're gonna discover if you actually do this exercise? Loudly, be brave. Okay, you're gonna discover your biases, what else will you discover? So I would extrapolate from that, you will discover, you didn't say the word, but I think you're hinting at this, there are inconsistencies in your own dealings with peoples. And you might overlook certain things, from certain people that you won't overlook the same thing in other people.

14:27You will discover that you are not being faithful to your own epistemology. You will discover that at times you don't even have a reason for why you place somebody in one box. And when you try to reason, you will bankrupt yourself because you won't have one. It's gonna be emotion rather than intellect. As I said, listen to me carefully, all of us operate with these boxes in our minds. We don't even know we have them, but now that I've taught them to you, you know you have them, right? All of us operate with these spectrums of how we deal with people. Hardly anybody thinks about why. Hardly anybody reasons, and as I said, it's not just theological, politics, social, gender views, right? Guys, there are people that have views on gender and they say them out loud or whatever, and you're so irritated and frustrated, you don't have anything to do with them. That's like cancel, okay? You just, this is not somebody I wanna deal with.

15:28It's not a deal with religion, it's his or her views on whatever it might be. We have this on every single issue, okay? So for some people, what is it? Veganism, okay? There are people that are, I mean, if you ask me when you remove religion, you have to create religion. When you remove God, you have to make other things God, right? So when there is no religion, things that might be secondary, tertiary in most people lives become primary. And there are religious vegans. I cannot attend a gathering where meat is being eaten. You all know people like this, because in their eyes, they're gonna put that in the box of non-negotiables. Cancel culture here, right? My point is we all have these boxes for all differences of opinion. Social, political, anthropological, religious, theological, we all have them. My ask of you, if you want to be a true intellectual, you have to analyze four politics, four social issues and cultural issues,

16:30four, whatever issues. And then for our class, for religious issues. Why a person goes in each box? And you better have good reasons, and you better be consistent. It's not my job right now to teach you, because I don't wanna indoctrinate you. But it is my job to cause you to think. That's my main purpose here, to force you to be uncomfortable and think. And so I am teaching you and forcing you to think. Why do you place somebody in, oh, I respect that opinion, even if I don't follow it. Wow, you're actually better than me, because you have that opinion. And why do you say, this is neutral, no big deal, okay? And why do you say, well, we'll agree to disagree, we can still be good friends, and so on and so forth. That's the first thing I'm asking you. Think about those boxes. And the second thing I am telling you, for me, I'm not asking you, I'm just telling you who I am. Me personally, I try to maximize as much as I can the neutral box, or agree to disagree with a civil matter box.

17:30This is my philosophy. Most people don't have it. Most people wanna put, as many theological issues in the awkward or the cancel culture box, right? And me personally, I used to be like that, and I've outgrown that phase. I like to try my best to accommodate as vast of a spectrum as possible, but yes, there are things that, because you hold them, you can probably not be a close friend, because that's simply theologically too beyond. But I can treat you in a civil manner. I don't have to spit in your face, I don't have to punch you, I don't have to slap you, okay? We can just, if we see each other, say, how am I doing? But because you hold this belief, it's a little bit, I can't be close, that's fine, I get that. But my philosophy, I try to minimize that box, as small as I can. I don't wanna make it big. And the cancel culture, that is the smallest possible. And we're gonna get there, what are the red lines? That's another lecture we'll have to give,

18:31because there are red lines, right? And for me, I mean, simplistically, to deny that which is known from the religion self-evidently. I.e. Allah is one, and Allah is beyond our comprehension. And Allah did not come down to earth in the figure of a man. There are groups, I believe this. And the Prophet, the final prophet, and there is heaven and hell. I mean, if anybody denies these basics as claiming to be Muslim, you gotta have some lines, they know, that's just not Islam. And I can be nice to you, but no, you're not gonna come and give a lecture in my mosque, where I cannot respect you. I can be nice as a human being, but this is heresy to claim that God came with the form of a man, to claim that Jubri'il visited a human being and gave him why he after the Prophet's system. There are red lines. But other things, we'll have to agree to disagree and just okay, put them in the box as much as you can. And for me, as I said to you, mainstream orthodoxy is an unusual category for me. Sufi, Salafis, Barel, Ilihadis, Teobandis, Jamatis, Iquani's,

19:35I don't bat an eyelid at all. Doesn't bother me at all. Well, not at all. To me, it is irrelevant. You're a good person. As I said, how you treat your mother is infinitely more important and how you make that we live a certain theoretical characteristic of Al-Qaeda that has no implication in our daily life. This is me. I'm not asking that of you. I've reached this of my own research because I wasn't like this 20 years ago, but it's me. It doesn't matter to me because in the end of the day, this has no tangible benefit. Any of you have a belief that I really don't like. I don't like those people who disrespect the Sahaba. That is not a belief that I can admire. But I can treat this person nicely. Say salam to them, interact with them. Without a doubt, it's difficult to have such a person to be a close confidant because their interpretation of Islam is so radically different that there's just going to be a mismatch. But I can still treat them civilly and pray behind them, pray behind them, and take a pray behind me. I can interact with them. Even if I disagree strongly, it doesn't

20:35mean I have to be rude, crude, harsh, nasty or mean. So I will tolerate and not respect, because that is not something I respect. But when you go even beyond this, for me, another red line is violence. Any group that is forcing you to believe the way that it is, any group that thinks it is permissible to beat or kill other people who disagree with them, we cannot tolerate them. Likewise, any group that is intellectually violent, I.e. everybody is a kafir other than us, or everybody's a mupti other than us. Okay, we're not going to be physically violent against them, but we have the right to be intellectually harsh against them as well. They opened the door to intellectual harshness. We have to respond with a firm intellectual rebuttal that is not tolerated. You're destroying the umma, you are a cancer. You are a cancer that is dividing the umma and making petty issues the end all and be all, and we will not allow this without a firm response.

21:37Other than this, me personally, I try my best to tolerate or agree to disagree, or even disagree with civility. You don't have to be crude and nasty to people that are living their lives without harming us. So this point here, the second point for today, understand the spectrum of interacting with difference of opinion, and analyze that spectrum, and ask yourself why you are placing some opinions and some boxes and others and other boxes. And then it's up to you, which box do you want to be? The default for me, the default is tolerance. The default is live and let live to the best of my ability. Make this box, if you ask me, the largest box possible. Okay, next point here. Point number three for today. The goal, if you cannot solve the difference of opinion, is to manage and contain it.

22:37You see, you will not be able to convert everybody to your opinion. Understand that. The other groups are here to stay. They've been around for 500 years, a thousand years, a thousand, 300 years. Suddenly and she had, they've been around for 1,350 years. You think you're going to solve it in Dallas, Texas, in the year comment year that we're in? You think you will snap your fingers, raise your voice and shout, and that's it. The problem will be gone. No. So deal with it. The goal then is not to eliminate the other group. It is to contain the disagreement in a civil manner. The goal should be, what do we do now that we disagree? Imagine a cousin, you don't really like. He's still your cousin or she's still your cousin. You're going to meet them at family gatherings. They're going to come at Shadi's and you know, Janaz's they're going to come. You don't want to cause a scene. There's no point causing a scene. Deal with it. Contain, manage the difference of opinion.

23:39Be mature about this. The Muslim groups are all one large family. Again, we're not talking about those that believe in other God that God came the form of a man in Atlanta, Georgia, or that, you know, there is no heaven and hell like the Duru's believe. We're not talking about those groups. The bulk of the, or our family, we talked about that multiple times. Having a different opinion doesn't make you a coffin. So they're family. Deal with it. Even if you don't like them. Make the goal after, as I said, after a person comes, they say this, they say this, they say this. After all this team has been let out. Just listen to them. After all the anger has come. Say, Jay, now what do you want me to do? Yeah, they do. What do we do now? What is the next step after you have gotten all the, now what do we do? Do they now represent? Five percent of the Oma, one percent of the Oma, ten percent of the Oma. Do they not represent a large group? Okay, we've just seen what happened to the Board of Education and how they've, you know, taken xenophobic, Islamophobic curriculums. Should we not work with them so that we have a better curriculum?

24:41So manage the difference of opinion. Learn to disagree so that you do something, contain the disagreement. Okay? The next point, fourth point here. The fourth point here is judge a group, not by its fringe or unknown or private opinions, but rather by what they preach and teach. This is one of the fundamental problems that happens in sectarian disputes. As soon as you will go to Shia Books and find one snippet here, another snippet here, another another snippet here, a Shia will go and find things in this book, that book, and construct a caricature of the other that the other will not even recognize. Don't interview a Sunni about Shia beliefs. Would you interview a far-right person about Islam? Even an academic who might factually say snippets of correct truth.

25:43The Quran says chapter 9 verse 4, Slay the infinite whatever you find, and the process of this and the Hadith says this, and Bukhadi says this, and everything he says is factually correct. Would you like that? You would not like that for your own faith. Then why do you allow your own cleric to do it to another Muslim's interpretation of Islam? If you're not going to allow a kafir to do it to Islam, why do you allow? Just because he's your cleric, he gets away with it? He might not even be lying, Pause your footnote, most of the time even they are misinformed, and they will say things that are simply factually incorrect. Because that's what they have been taught. They have never interacted academically with the other. Trust me on this. The vast majority of scholars do not interact with scholars of other interpretations in an academic manner. They don't. Max, they'll just say Salam and get along if even that. They actually sit and hear with humility and to learn.

26:46It goes against everything you've been taught. It doesn't work that way. Where is it to find a person that has genuinely humbly studied or at least even paid attention to multiple strands of scholarship? It doesn't work that way. That's not how scholars are formed in our tradition. I'm just telling you how it is. So if that is the case, then if there is a need for you to find out, if there isn't, because your life is limited, you can only do it. You can only spend so much time on sectarianism. If there is a need, you have a close friend that has another group or whatever, then get information from the people that understand and know and believe in that strand. That you get it as the saying goes straight from the horse's mouth. Because what happens, like I said, when you go to the other, the other, if they are correct, which most of the time they're not, will take snippets and construct a caricature that might be correct in its juziyyat, in its specific issues, but it's put together in an

27:48abnormal manner, in a manner that is almost sacrilegious, unrecognizable. And I do this in my class all the time, my advanced classes. This is not for the graduate level classes that I teach. Graduate level where the students are prepared. They have a lot of reading and I coach them. I bring in for the classes that I teach in this issue. I bring in experts who believe in their particular strands of Islam to interact with the graduate level for an hour, say here, talk to them all you want. And what that does is that it shows that, okay, they're not coming out of thin air. I see where they're coming from, even if I disagree. And it removes simplistic caricatures and crude stereotypes. So the fourth point goes straight to the horse's mouth if you need to. You don't have to, because meaning you don't have to do your research for every single thread because your time is limited. But if you do need to form an opinion, do not form an opinion for somebody who's already

28:49biased. Form an opinion from somebody who is an authority and take from them so that at least you will understand why they say what they say. Because sometimes you will find a fringe opinion that is not held by any mainstream scholar. And it's held by some third tier local Molana or something. And the other guy say, look, this is what they say. And they caricature or stereotype an entire group in this regard. And every group does it to its opponents. Sunnis do it to Shia, Salafi do it to Sufi, Sufi do it to Wahhabis. Everybody does it to everybody. You will find one third rate cleric, not to top notch person. He has a bizarre lecture. And that lecture will or that incident or that will be made mainstream. And look, that's what that group does. Don't fall for that. You don't like it when the far right does it to us, when they take a preacher out of context. Or they take a preacher within context, but he's not mainstream. And they do this all the time.

29:50And they take some radical guy from some other place, you know, some European country. And they take some clip, oh, this is what they're saying. And you're like, no, I've never heard this in my whole life. So if you're not going to allow the far right to do it, don't allow your group to do it to another group. And understand, sometimes people do this without any evil intent, but they're still wrong. You don't have to have evil intent to spread misinformation, to shock you guys. Many in the far right are good people in their lives. They genuinely believe us Muslims are terrorists and evil. And if you were to meet them one on one, you would actually find them to be very pleasant in their personal lives and their one on other families that they've been brainwashed because they've never met a Muslim. If you can understand this about our society, the same thing applies to Yorfirra and my firra as well. So this rule, I put it as isolate isolated opinions and keep history as history, meaning there are opinions that are fringe and isolated, keep them isolated.

30:50Don't make them mainstream. And things might have happened in the past. Don't resurrect them for our time. Oh, the suffocates did this, the automat did that. Okay, maybe they did. What has the God to do with me and you right now? So that's the fourth point here. The fifth point that I want to mention here, and that is that, Iman, faith, spirituality will not be fortified by destroying the faith of other people. It will be built by fortifying your own spirituality. When you bash other people, there's a temporary, temporary ecstasy that you get. Some weird dopamine comes out. That's why we love to do it. That's why we love to gossip. That's why we love to back bite. Every group likes to have another group that they can bash, just just human nature. Not good, it is what it is. But destroying other people's civilizations, cultures, religions might make you feel

31:54good. It's not going to build your own Iman. It's not. And that is why, listen to me carefully, those who immerse themselves in sectarianism inevitably burn out in religiosity. You see this yourself. Those who immerse themselves in constantly bashing other people, but they're not concentrating on building their own Iman, they fizzle out in their own religiosity. They stop being religious or they start cannibalizing their own movement because once they've eaten everybody else, nothing is left other than their own. So don't follow that trend and understand building your own spirituality does not require you to tear down the spirituality of other people. So if you are passionate about an idea, for example, we respect the Sahab, Abu Bakr is a great guy. Yes, I agree.

32:54There's two ways to go about this. Number one, you bash the other group. Those guys say, those guys say, and after all this team has been let out and everybody's angry, everybody goes home and nothing has been accomplished. Or you can flip the script, give an entire lecture, the blessings of Abu Bakr, the sacrifice of a wakr in the Hijrah, when Abu Bakr did throughout the Syrah and you don't bash anybody. And you preach positive what happens. Iman is built. Spirituality sores, love increases. And automatically without any evil hatred, why would people not like Abu Bakr, you've done the job. You've done the job. And you've done it in a whole sum manner. And you've done it in a pure methodology. And you've done it accomplishing building Iman. You've got the goal. Now when somebody comes and says something nasty about Abu Bakr, the average was going

33:56to say, wow, why would you do that, man? It doesn't make any sense. And Allah, you've done it. But if you started the opposite and all you did was bash, bash, bash. Yes, the person will also bash, but you haven't built anything. And you haven't made them love the Sahaba, love Abu Bakr, so you see, rather than destroy other people's Iman's, I am telling you, the better thing to do, the Islamic thing to do primarily, because at times, refutations have to happen at the right audiences, the right context, the right language, but as a default, as a default, you build and you don't destroy others. So if you're passionate about an idea, go about it in a whole sum manner. And that whole sum manner is what? Spiritual building, fortifying your own, teaching in a positive manner rather than a negative. So that's what is the fifth rule? Okay. The sixth and final rule in inshallah, and then we have a very important announcement. And we actually have some time for Q&A.

34:57The final rule for today, and again, I could go on and on. I used to, I still teach this class at an advanced level. sectarianism and theology is one of my areas of expertise and I really enjoy teaching it, studying it. Once upon a time, I was spiritually invested in it, but now that investment has gone, but I still enjoy it immensely. I love reading and writing about this topic, the history of ideas. I'm writing two books currently, both of them are about intellectual history. Rasheed Al-Dawaz, one, and then the intellectual history of Islam. They both deal with these ideas, like the concepts and the intellectual debates that take place. So, the last point that I'll say for today's class, and with this we come to a conclusion of sectarianism. And cooperation in some areas is not an endorsement of all areas. I repeat, friendliness and cooperation in some areas is not an endorsement in all areas. Now, here's the irony.

35:57We all know this in every single facet of our lives except sectarianism. That's how we live our lives. That is how we live our lives. We all know this. I don't need to teach you this. But when it comes to sectarianism, preachers tell you if you cooperate in an area, this means you endorse them in all areas. Nobody lives their life this way. In your workplace, have you vetted all the views of all of your colleagues? Do you agree with the person sitting next to in the cubicle in every issue that he or she has? Of course not. But you understand we're coming together for the corporation and then depending on how close you are, goes back to those boxes, the closer you are, the closer friends you're going to be. And the more radical their lifestyle, their alternative lifestyle is whatever, the less friendship you're going to have outside of that. But you can still cooperate for the sake of the corporation, for the sake of your team, for the sake of your project. If we can do this for money and dollars, why can't we do this for the dean?

37:00We get along this way. That's how the world works. We all work for some greater good, even if we don't agree with one another. That's how any project is done. Yet for some weird reason, we don't seem to understand that this same reality needs to apply for the different understandings of Islam. Just because I disagree with you on one area, doesn't mean my cooperation in another area means the agreement doesn't exist. But this is the same sentiment that is used as the final card. The Trump card is the same goes. You guys don't know, Bridget would not, but there's something called the Trump card, not Donald Trump, but something that's meant to end all debate. They say those people say X, Y and Z, how can you cooperate with them? Because if you cooperate, it means you endorse X, Y and Z. And again, just smile at them, say, who said that cooperating with them means I endorse X, Y and Z. We have to get along for this reason and we'll respectfully disagree on that other aspect. All this as that, I call this, I have a venn diagram, the circles of cooperation when

38:04I teach you to have a venn diagram, circles of cooperation. There are circles that overlap with each other. The smallest circle, the smallest circle, religious teaching. Who do I invite to teach my children in the Sunday school? We have to agree on quite a lot. I'm not going to invite somebody that disagrees with my mainstream theology. Somebody says the Quran doesn't have to be understood literally. I'm sorry, you're not coming and teaching my kids. Somebody says, I don't believe in Qadar, you're not giving the Khudba and the Mastjid them because I have to monitor, there has to be some level of invite, right? Somebody rejects the Sahaba, you're not going to come to the Mastjid and give the Khudba, you have the, so the religious circle, teaching circle, that's the most narrow. For me personally, narrowness is mainstream sunnism, but for other people you have to follow my version of sunnism. I am banned in many Mastjids simply because I'm not on the strand of their sunnism, right? And we don't ban anybody in our Mastjid, but in most Mastjids, you know, they will not accept even Sunni clerics who are on a slightly different trajectory.

39:08That's the way they are. So be it, that's not me. I have my philosophy. Main stream, Ahl-e-Sunnah, welcome to my Mastjid, Epic is open to anybody that believes in the Quran wants to follow the Sunnah of the Prophet, some respects the Sahaba, then I'm not going to micromanage after that. To me that's religious, you know, orthodoxy in a general manner. I have my own agreements, disagreements after that, but that reaches the bar of religious. But after this you have other boxes, let's just say social, social interaction. Okay, you can interact socially with people, you don't have to invite them to Khudba, they can be your friends. Then there's going to be broader, broader. Broadest one is political cooperation. Political cooperation is the largest circle. To be in that portion of the circle doesn't mean you have to automatically come to the middle of the circle. You guys understand the Venn diagrams without me drawing it, right? So the largest circle is political cooperation. For me to cooperate with somebody who's not even a Muslim for Gaza, we all understand

40:10we do this all the time. Doesn't mean I endorse your politics, does it mean I endorse your alternative lifestyles? Then the encampments happened across this country and I spoke at half a dozen of them. You know I told you this. I spoke at Harvard, MIT, Yale, Northwestern. I spoke at a whole bunch of them. I'm telling you with my own two eyes, along with the Muslim's association, Arab, the Palestinians, one of the main groups that helped worthy LGBT groups. This is just a fact. They stood up, they petitioned, they lobbied, they went against their own institutions. What are we going to do? When I speak in that audience, I am not talking about the issues of difference between us and them. I'm talking about Faisal Sain. And Gaza and a genocide. At that stage, I'm not giving them an interrogation in position. What is your views on morality? My presence there is not an endorsement of everybody on that camp.

41:12And anybody who says so, honestly, is speaking from within his own figment of imagination. Nobody in the right mind associates a person who's speaking at an encampment with every single person in their causes that encampment. The encampment is about Gaza. Everybody understands what has brought these diverse people together is Gaza. Okay, nobody associates all the groups to agree with everybody about everything except Gaza because that's what the banner is about. The only people who problematize it are the sectarian people who problematize it. You understand? There's a circularity here. Oh, but you're going, there's going to endorse, oh no, you're the only one that's saying it endorses. You're the only one problematizing. The one that's saying it endorses is the one who's problematizing. The one who's problematizing is the one who's saying it's an endorsement. The only group that says this are the people who problematize. Ignore them. Marginalize them. There is minority voice. You understand when we're living in a diverse society, we have to work with diverse groups

42:15of people. And when we work with them, when the banner underneath, when the slogan, when the cause is legitimate, cooperation is legitimate. Allah tells us in the Quran, what a Awanu ala l-Birri wa t-takwa, cooperate in aspects of piety and good. When the aspect is pious, when that material is good, we will cooperate with anybody. A kafir, a mulhed, a zindiyah, anybody who wants to come and help us for the Palestinian cause, come. But he wants to give a khudba, we're going to make it narrow. No, no, you cannot come if you don't believe in Allah, His Messenger, if you don't respect the Quran, His Surah, you see my point here, circles of cooperation. We do this in our entire lives for all aspects of our life. Only when it comes to the religion that we say, no, no, we cannot do this. So bottom line, and with this we conclude all of sectarianism. I want you all to first and foremost have a pure heart.

43:15Secondly, follow your gut instinct about sectarian issues. Does it make sense or not? Thirdly, ask Allah to help you and fourthly, trust wise senior scholarship. Don't follow young, overzealous, undereducated people in these very complex issues. Follow seasoned, respected, wise elders. I have said this to you in multiple issues. Youth have vitality, it is true. Youth have more energy, it is true. But youth don't have experience and wisdom. It's not your fault, you're only 20, 25 years old. How can you possibly have the wisdom of somebody who's lived three times more than you? Actually technically they've lived five times more than you because you haven't really lived when you're 15 to 25, it's 10 years, not 25 years. First 15 years of life you're not really living with wisdom. You've actually only been an adult 10 years when you're 25, less than 10 years. So somebody who's 70 years old has been an adult seven times more than you.

44:21Seven times more than your experience. How can you not understand this is a person that has gone through life more than I have? Let me listen to this person. Do not follow the youth and the overzealous online roles when it comes to these very sensitive issues. Go to people older than me, senior than me, and there are people like this in America. Ask them, they've lived life more than you, and they've seen more than you, have they experienced more than you. You might have more book knowledge, you might, but you do not have even a fraction of their experience and wisdom. So in these sensitive issues, follow your gut instinct, use the intel Allah has given you, make dua to Allah to help guide you in these regards, and then follow these basic principles, and you will insha'Allah to Allah to then navigate. And many things can be said, cooperation with other groups is contextual. That's another point I can just quickly add here. In some contexts, maybe there's not that much benefit to work with a particular group. In other contexts, maybe there is benefit.

45:21So it's a case by case basis. And it varies from time to place to location. It varies from era to era. So don't be so dogmatic and narrow-minded. I've given you this example before when the Muslims first came to this country, the immigrants came. They didn't have the luxury of asking which firka you follow. There were two few. Nobody cared. Sunni, shia, ahliya, these, but you were five students in a city. How could you possibly divide upon firka? That's how all misogyn in this country started without exception. Do you really think any mischief started only my firka is going to pray here? No mischief in the whole country, including here in Dallar, started like this. Go speak. The elders who still alive. Go speak to them. I told you this. My father founded their first mosque in Houston. He was the vice president. The president was an Iranian student. He was the vice president. He goes, we didn't even think Sunni, shia, we're too few. We're going to divide amongst five students. Two are Iranian. One is Turkish. One is Pakistan.

46:22We're going to divide amongst that impossible. So context plays a role. As organically, the numbers increased organically. Some small tensions began organically. The shia has built their own mess. Should no problem. Live and let live. No problem. We're not when the context allows for it. We can move on. Similarly, other things might happen as well in this regard. My point is that don't be so dogmatic. Understand a person who disagrees with you by and large is still a Muslim. Understand for the sake of the Ummah, you must still unite for the great to good of things. Follow your instinct and gut in this regard and follow the elders and those in shah Allah who to Allah that have experienced more than you. Before I open up for questions, there is an important announcement that sister Yada will make. So, Khilafanikum everybody. So in shah Allah, what I am here in the lighthouse team, on behalf of all the lighthouse team to talk about today, is the lighthouse luminary's program. So in hand, Allah, you guys are all here. You've been here, some of you almost every Tuesday, some of you guys come in and come out

47:23and we really appreciate it. And we want to emphasize that you are lighthouse. The community of lighthouse is what makes lighthouse. And for that reason, we want to take it to another level and we want to start something called the luminary's program. And what that is, is that it's an academic program where you still come in every Tuesday, nothing like a different class or a different location. It's just where you are. But the difference is, is that you can register and become a student. And when that happens, then we take your attendance every Tuesday and then you join Google Classroom and you get assignments by weekly. Now that sounds like the tough part of it. But the perks of that is that you get a certificate of achievement and topics of modernity. So there's an option to register every semester, every semester you can re-register. And then you get exclusive Q&A opportunities with Dr. Asad Ali. You get a free tote bag and a notebook with lighthouse luminary's brand. You get a one day retreat potentially depending on YQ schedule, a one day retreat where we can further discuss and critically engage with the topics that are mentioned in class. And we really, really encourage everybody

48:24that is maybe more academically inclined or maybe likes to take more notes. Maybe wants to more critically engage with what we talk about here today to join this program. And if you have any questions, I really want to ask very quickly if Etina, she is our sisters luminary's lead. If you can just stand up so the sisters can come to you for questions. If you know a most of the lighthouse, okay, see right there in the back. You can reach out to him for questions. You can also reach out to Etina for questions. And they would love to help you out. So Jizak al-Augher. So to add to that, the request came from many of you that you want more time and more reading material or more Q&A and stuff. So what we decided to do, the idea was from you, not from me, from the Mashallah, the board. What they decided to do, which I'm totally happy and fine to do, I'm humbled and honored, is that a group of you will in Shallahu Ta'ala then be given very basic quizzes after we finish a module. So for example, sectarianism. There will just be a Q&A multiple choice essays,

49:24whatever. Every time we finish a module, very basic assessment being done, you might have some extra reading, but the main point is the course here. And you finish that up and just remain with the program in Shallahu Ta'ala. And that will allow you basically to be on a WhatsApp group. You're going to get every time I'm able to, which Allah will know how, Allah Allah will know how many often. But still, the goal is every, maybe six weeks, every two months, special, maybe dinner or Q&A. Once every six months or so, the goal is maybe to have a retreat somewhere an hour from Dallas like a full day where we do a deeper dive or a course, many course with time for intellectual discussion and maybe some fun in games as well. So yeah, the goal is basically to have a bit of a more rigorous training than just a Tuesday afternoon. That's the goal. So this is the luminaries program. So if you're interested, there is the bar code. You can just fill out a form and in Shallahu Ta'ala it will be accepted. The other announcement, very important announcement,

50:27very exciting announcement. One of the biggest questions that I believe is unsolved when it comes to religion and science is the question of evolution. My analysis, I'm not a biologist, is that there are still unanswered questions with the Quranic story and with what we know of biology and the theory of evolution. Very, very, very few people are qualified to discuss this at an academic level. Hamdurillah next Tuesday, one of the, I would say premier experts in this field has agreed to come to Lighthouse. He has a PhD in evolutionary biology and two postdocs in evolutionary biology and he's published papers in this field and he is also in Hamdurillah,

51:27a believing Muslim who has spent his whole life trying to reconcile or whatnot to understand what we can do about the Quranic story and about the theory of evolution. Problem comes, this is a very convoluted topic. It's a very lengthy topic. He's written multiple papers on it, we only have one session. So what I've told him to do is that between Maghad Ab-e-N-Ishah, he will have a brief overview of some of the main theories he has of how to reconcile and then after Ishah, open Q&A for as long as you guys want, to much of these volunteers coming from another city, just for you guys. So he's gonna just come out after Ishah. So we especially want those of you with biology backgrounds, pre-med backgrounds, those of you, so we need to spread the word and make sure a new batch comes next week because it's the one off only. He's flying in just for this class, okay? We'll have the flyer out and his name and everything will be on there. Inshallah, he will be coming next Tuesday. So we need you to come, especially those of you

52:28as I said that have an understanding of this field and we'll have unanswered questions. Whatever question you ask him, I can assure you who's already thought about it because that is his field. Evolutionary biology, literally that's his field. So Alhamdulillah, that's gonna be next Tuesday, introductory lecture, we do in the program Ishah and after Ishah, open Q&A for advanced students inshallah. And with that, we have a solid 15 minutes of Q&A, inshallah. So Alhamdulillah, let us go, Bismillah, Rahman Rahim. I try my best to do the ones upvoted. The biggest sectarian divide in the subcontinental Muslim world is based on a pure hypothetical of a hypothetical with nothing practical about it. Can Allah create another Prophet Muhammad, Salah, Salam? How are such useless debates taken seriously by those that claim to be inheritors of the prophet to the point they make to creative of another? Why do scholars take this seriously if this is the bulk of their history? So I didn't wanna get into too many examples, but this hits the nail on the head. The Burelv's and the Deoband's. Represent the two largest groups in India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Nepal.

53:33The Indian, Dessie subcontinent, the Burelv's and the Deoband's dominate 95% or 90% of the Ummah. 90, maybe 85%. Okay, large amount. No exaggeration. The Ahli had these or less than 5% very small. And this, the Shia are probably 10, 15%. So maybe 80, 85% are basically this division between Burelv's and the Abundis. And do you know what the difference of opinion is? Many, but this is the main one. Hypothetically, can Allah create, could Allah have created in the past a Prophet who was equal to, or maybe in better than the Prophet, Salah, Salam? Hypothetical question. And the Burelv say, to say this is kufr, because the Prophet's is the best of all. So to say that another being could have possibly theoretically, hypothetically been created

54:35is, was taker of suh. And you are kafer, dar mudil murthat. And the Deoband they say to limit the power of Allah is kufr and Allah can do as he pleases. He won't do that because the Prophet's is the best. But could he have done it? Yes, he could have done it. And to say he couldn't is to limit the power of Allah. And so they say this is, in his own way a type of kufr, because you cannot limit the power of Allah. Can you believe this is one of the fundamental differences between the two largest trans of Dezim Muslims, because of which they make takfi'id of one another. They say, and you will find this online, and why Raza was happening last year in England, in, should I even say the city's name, but anyway, OK. Not London, some Shadyaf city close by. They actually had, in the proper street British accents, two groups of clerics debate and make takfi'id of one another in their massages in England

55:38over this issue. And it was uploaded onto YouTube, and it had hundreds of thousands of views, or tens of thousands of views. Each one of which is dressed the same, they see a background, Indian Pakistani subcontinent background, both of them, Irid Barianian, Halva Puri, at breakfast, whatever, right? No, the irony of irony is they're a Shady, that they're a Bandi, they're a Hanafi, and the amount of hatred they had for one another because of this hypothetical issue. This is what frustrates me. It frustrates me to the point of, I don't even have words for it. It's just, it is what it is, right? Multiple issues I play here, one of them being, and this needs to be said, the educational levels of the people's involved here. Generally speaking, the less one has read, the more isolated one has lived one's life, the less educated one is, the more prone one is

56:40to these narrow-minded sectarian issues. So I want to educate you, and that's why, by the way, in America, general-leaf sectarianism is not as much as in many other places in the world. Because by and large, the average person with two digits IQ understands, even if you disagree, should be put in the neutral category. Okay, it's a hypothetical issue. We both love Allah, Azawad al-Azawad al-Azawad, the only God, we both acknowledge this, the irony. Not just we both, every Muslim acknowledges the processum is the greatest of all human beings. We all acknowledge this. So what's the point of anger and hatred? It's a complete hypothetical that has no substantive reality to it. But again, it shows you how, I can't help you, the harsh word here, but how foolish sectarianism is, that two people, two massagers are gonna make teqfeer. It wasn't just you were wrong. Your Nikaah has balked. Your children were not inherent from you. We cannot pray behind you.

57:41If you slaughter a chicken, your chicken and the bariani is not halal for us to eat. And they're saying this in their Brahmi accents to each other, right? They're literally, and it's just like, what are you living about again? It is what it is. This is, you know, it is what it is. Listen, you just don't go down to that level and understand in inshaAllah, you will always find people of a more, any open-minded and more world-right, let these people be. You can only do so much in this regard, but this is my problem, exactly. Now, I would say the bulk of our differences really are theoretical with utmost respect, even the Safat controversy. What is the result of it? Even the Sunnis, I was talking with somebody that came to her office, he was talking about these issues. Okay, who should have been the first Khalifa? I said to this brother, you know what? If you believe that's a volume happened 1400 years ago, there's something called Yom al-Piyama. And Allah will take the volume and deal with the volume on Yom al-Piyama.

58:43Why do you and I have to fight over something that happened 1400 years ago? I just literally said to the brother, why do you and I have to have an issue? You just live your life and let Allah judge on the day of judgment if you really feel this way. And I live my life and expect a level also to judge on the day of judgment, right? Why do I have to resurrect what happened and carry it in my heart and pass it down to my children? What do we benefit? What happened happened? Allah's okay, if you feel so strongly, Allah will judge, don't you agree? He is a Hakim al-Hakim, he is a Hakim, Yama al-Qiyyom al-Muddin. So yes, a lot of our differences really are theoretical in this regard. So yeah, I agree with you. What can we do in this? Educate and keep on and believe me, the silent majority understands. It's the vocal minority that clouds the silent majority, right? Don't be fooled by this reality. Okay, question here. To what extent do you think the tension between the more liberal and traditional interpretations of Islam is healthy? At what point does it become harmful

59:43from an outsider's perspective? Wouldn't these constant internal disputes undermine the credibility of Muslims, especially with the social media wars and for ordinary Muslims looking for guidance? How are they supposed to navigate these competing ideas? Yes, I understand this point. Our modern sectarian issue is not over Sunnishiar for most of us in this hall, for most of you living online even. Our modern sectarian issues are over hijab, gender, music, the spectrum of Fichha-vechtilaf. That's what it's over. And may Allah help you navigate this. Again, my goal is not to indoctrinate you, my goal is to teach you guidelines to help you. And yes, you will have to face and decide which version of Islam you're gonna follow. I maintain what I've been teaching over the last years and that is to disagree with civility, even if you disagree strongly. There's no need to be crude or nasty. Even if you disagree with somebody fundamentally,

1:00:45but they are also acting in a civil manner, you can also return the civility. You don't have to become nasty or take the tension beyond what it needs to be. I do not sympathize with those that want to destroy the classical tradition, it is entirety. I believe that is very dangerous to Islam. And I will tell you that is dangerous. But there's a way to do so without fermenting hatred. I know many of them are sincere. I know because I interacted with them. I know them. I know many of them believe this is what Islam should be like. I'm not doubting their sincerity. I just think it's not gonna be healthy for the future. So in the end of the day, it's a battle of ideas. You guys, you guys are the ones that are gonna have to decide. You're the judges, not me. Because I've already judged what I think is right. I'm presenting my opinion. You're gonna hear other opinions. You guys are the judges. I feel empathy for you, because it's a tough decision to make. But I'm not gonna make my arguments stronger

1:01:46by being nasty about the other guy. I'm not gonna prove my point by using vulgar adjectives about the other group. That's not how I solidify. And if that's what you want, then frankly, you don't know how to judge between arguments. I need to prove to you why my point is stronger academically, intellectually, Islamically. If I cannot do that, and I can only resort to ad hominem, I can only resort to vulgarities. I can only resort to raising my voices and accusing them. Then yes, some people will like that, but those people weren't even waiting for the evidence as they already made up their minds anyway. So I agree with you that it's not healthy to exacerbate. So let us, as I said, understand. We are talking about a battle of ideas. May the strongest argument win. Therefore, we better make sure our arguments are the best. Our evidences are the strongest. Our mechanisms are presenting are the best. I agree with you, this is a problem.

1:02:48There's no need to exacerbate. Let us present our views. And in the end, you will all have to decide, you know, which quote unquote understanding or version of Islam. And again, I mean, there are strands, there are shades, not all fundamentalists are the same, not all modernists are the same, not all progressers are the same. There's many shades. And you know, where one ends the others just beginning, there's a continuum and there's an overlap. The closer you are to segments of the continuum, the more you can interact with them. Question here, why are the Muslims imitating Christians by debating over abstract theological issues? Didn't the same thing lead them to sectarian wars which led them to secularism, which caused the state of Christianity today to sectarian mind and Muslims, want Islam and Muslims to be weakened as well. So one of my theses that I mentioned in my PhD and others is the following. Many of our theological controversies of the past emanated from intra-Christian debates. And they were taken and absorbed in the first and second centuries of Islam,

1:03:49and they were Islam-assised. And I've proven this in my PhD. And this is what one of the main causes of me personally becoming more mature. Once I understood the origin of the whole divine attributes controversy, it originated when Christians were disputing the nature of Jesus versus the nature of God. They were disputing, does Jesus have different characteristics than God? Is Jesus the word is the word created, is the word the creator, is the logos created, logos uncreated? All of this comes as the Quran created uncreated. All of this absorbs in. We don't have the logos, we have the Quran, Qalamullah. So the whole controversy is the Quran created uncreated. It comes from a Christian Byzantine controversy awarded the logos is created uncreated. Is the logos created or is the logos the creator or is the logos created? This is a Byzantine Christian controversy, six-century CE. And Muslims conquer the Byzantine lands. Muslims hear this, Muslims absorb this debate, and then they back-project it onto their religion. The whole Sephaz controversy is over Jesus and God,

1:04:50are they one nature, is they're human element, are they one, that's all of Christianity. It's over sectarian issues, right? Muslims absorb this, oh, so what does it mean? God has a hand, is the hand, the part of God, is the hand separate, is the hand this, what does it mean, Allah has knowledge, is not all of the same language. If you read my PhD, if you listen to my library chats, literally the same language used by Byzantine Christian Theologians was adopted by early Muslim groups on this site, early Muslims on that site. I quoted it in my PhD. I literally quoted Byzantine Theologians, and then Muartezida, Byzantine Theologians, and then the proto-other groups there, basically you can see the whole spectrum here, right? Once you understand the origins of this controversy are foreign, and it was Islam-assized, then you gotta ask yourself, was it really worth it? Did we really have to fight over these abstract issues? The nature of God? Who amongst you has ever thought to a point of it, bringing doubt about how do you understand the Sephaz of God? It's a bygone controversy, let it be, no need to resurrect it.

1:05:51But yet, as I explained to you, this is the main controversy still happening online between the Da'wa-Broes, between the sectarian groups here. So, and where does it originate from? It originates from Christianity. So, yes, the more you learn, the more humble and open-minded you become. Let's do our final question here. I've heard that Wahabism is a plot by the Zionist entities to dissonite the Ummah, and it has infiltrated into this government in that, no, that's not true, be academic, as a person who subscribed to that movement, who taught it, who preached it, who absorbed it, who believed in it, and who has studied it, and written an academic book about it, that movement has a lot of good. It prioritizes the tradition, more than others. It respects the classical training of Islam. It has roots in early Islam, and it is not a plot by the Zionist, not at all. It is a movement that was taken by a political entity, and they have their reasons to do it, and the scholars of that movement are sincere, they believe in it, they make a lot of sense in some ways,

1:06:53and in some areas they can improve. I don't view them as being a sakhfor Allah, a sakhfor Allah, enemies of Allah, they're not evil people, Allah, they are a mainstream strand of Islam, they go back to the earliest of Islam, they have major icons like Ibn Taymiyah, me personally, I say that Ibn Abdu Wahab, and Ibn Taymiyah are not the same, Ibn Abdu Wahab invented ideas, Ibn Taymiyah did not have, and he extrapolated things he did not have, that's my opinion. The followers say, no Ibn Abdu Wahab, fall at Ibn Taymiyah, 100%. But in the end, they are mainstream Sunnis, they are within Sunnis, and they have views that might potentially be harmful, that can be toned down, but all movements, Sufis, but all of them have views that can be harmful, the goal is to maximize the benefit, minimize the harm. Remember, next Tuesday, inshallah is by evolutionary biology, spread the word, and inshallah will see you then,