Why do serial killers target marginalized people..

0:00I'll admit it, I'm one of those people who gets excited for football season way before the first kickoff. That's why a trip to total wine and more has become part of my game day routine. I can get the cooler ready with my favorite beers and ready to drink cocktails. I'm usually picking up enough for everybody. So it's nice knowing I'm scoring the lowest prices. This season make total wine and more part of your game day tradition. Spirits are not sold in Virginia and North Carolina. Drink responsibly. B-21. Jimmy Conrad here and I have something to put on your radar. The course short from Viori. Because after getting my first pair, I was hooked. They work for everything that I like doing. Soccer, tennis, hoops and lifting weights in MFU. And they're unbelievably comfortable, which is why I wear them doing everything else. They're designed to work for whatever your day throws at you. For our listeners, they're offering 20% off your first purchase. So head to Viori.com slash footy. That's v-u-o-r-i.com slash f-o-o-t-y. Exclusions apply. Visit the site for full details.

1:02Fall is a vine. So what's yours? Do you go wild? Or get a little nostalgic? Do you like to cozy up indoors or kick it outdoors? Whenever you fall for it, get shoes that get you. We've got the chance. You bring the vibes. DSW, let us surprise you. When we get back to this case, and this is where your experience comes in. And somehow look, the person in the lower Raymond RC horse, the father, you know, he's probably got a spot in hell right now. He's probably got a seat, a front row seat for the hottest place in hell right now. But his son, Eugene, Eugene has a shot. And maybe if we can get the evidence necessary

2:06to be charged with murder in these cases. And that's the only hope we really have is that they can produce evidence to hold him accountable. So how do we build a murder case? Well, evidence. That's how we do it. We have to collect evidence, Mike. Yeah, Bill, this is going to be a completely a circumstance case because you're going to look for DNA, maybe you'll get you'll be lucky enough to find a hair, whether it be some blood that you identify a person. And then you're going to have to maybe see if you could find them on a snuff film to show and have someone say, that is the moment of their death. That was it. So we know they're not missing. We know they're not runaways. We know they're not still acting somewhere. We believe that they are dead. It's all circumstantial. And that's going to that may be the best you're going to do. You're going to be say, look, nobody's seen these people and nobody's heard from these people. They don't have a contact that anybody for years. They've been missing. And as Barbara,

3:10as you said earlier, some of the people weren't even reported missing. And so that makes it even worse as a prosecutor because you don't even have a missing person's report on them. And you know, so the families don't even consider that missing or they maybe haven't spoken to why. But this is whatever you do, the best you're going to do is a real, you know, one of those fourth quarter, you know, 90 yard touchdown pass. It was one second left in the clock. That's the kind of case you're going to have to do. It's not going to be a rock solid case with DNA evidence, photographic evidence. I witnessed evidence, you know, fingerprint evidence, you know, unless the evidence, or all the other things that we're used to in crime scenes, you're not going to have any of that. It's all going to be a few little pieces. So you might even bring him to trial. But you're going to have to convince 12 people that, yeah, that means that that person's dead,

4:11not that they just lived there for a couple of weeks and then gone, you know, so even if you can bring them to justice, you might not get justice. And I'm thinking about this as you're talking, if the supposing of the bodies and things like that, this is going to be a hell marry last second pass kind of kind of prosecution. And you may not at the end of the day, that may be the best you can do is maybe you bring this person to trial, maybe you get a conviction, but maybe not. Yeah, I to Matt, to me at this point, not knowing anymore than what Barbara said and what we know so far, to me is a flip of the coin. Yeah. You know, Barbara, it was no, it's no accident that he he targeted much like Rex Uelman, the Gilgobit serial killer. What we would refer to as marginalized people. And the Gilgobit serial killer case, he targeted sex workers. Because first of all, many times sex workers

5:12are off the map as far as their family. They don't deal with their family any longer. Their family doesn't know where they are. They don't have maybe a lot of close friends. They have, you know, relationships and things, but they're easier because they let's put it that way they're marginalized. In this case, it's reported that he was traveling to Camden, New Jersey and actually going to the stroll for those that don't know what that is. The stroll is where prostitutes do the walk every night and that's where they that's their office. That's where they do their work. And he would target them and also in Camden, New Jersey, he would target drug addicts. And those are the people he would bring to the house, either getting to come to the house with money or most of the time with drugs. And if it was heroin, was there a choice of drug? He had heroin for the minute. Keep them high during these horrific pornographic films that he would shoot. So again, for the cooperation

6:19element of marginalized people. And one of the things I always credit it and I always felt good about the NYPD is that I felt that we always tried to treat people no matter their station and life equally. And like, you know, whether it was the stock broker from Park Avenue, was laying dead somewhere or a prostitute on the streets of New York. We tried to treat them with the same dignity and to treat them with the same effort in solving their case as we would do no matter what a person's station and life. And apparently early on in the Gilgobee case, that was not the case. It was almost like they were not treated as human beings because they were sex workers. And that went from the very top of the Suffolk County Police Department who was reluctant to bring the FBI in to help with the investigation. After all, these were just

7:20prostitutes. That's right. You know, they considered sex workers. Who is that? Is that you, Mike? What's that? What was making that noise? It's a strange noise like a loudest. It stopped now. So I move my glasses. But even that, you must have your desk electrified or something. You know, Bill, you're absolutely right. And it is so sad, but sometimes sex workers and drug addicts are considered throwaway killings because they do live on the margins of life very often. And that is a damn shame because everyone has a family that may miss them. They may have friends and, you know, relationships that matter to them.

8:20You know, you said about NYPD being careful. And I agree with that. There was a lot of care given to make sure that people were treated with equal importance, no matter what their station and life was. Unfortunately, the media does not always do that. So if a white girl was murdered on Park Avenue, it was national news. But when Aaron Key was doing evil deeds, raping and killing adolescent girls in East Harlem, was in any of the papers, even the locals. So I hope things have changed radically. Well, Bob, I agree with you. I was in Manhattan, North Hamasite squad. Probably one of the most premier Hamasite squads in the world, you know, and it covers the richest area and the poorest areas of Upper Manhattan. And we know that when something happened below 96th Street, call in the National Guard, call in the Marines, call in the Air Force, you know, it was all hands

9:25on deck. And if it happened above 96th Street, not some, unless it was near Columbia University, and then it all applied. Same thing, anything happens in Central Park in New York City. And it's not the detectives that are doing that. The investigation, it's the powers that be right down from the mayor's office to the top echelon of the police department. What's going on with that Central Park case? You know, you see people showing up with stars and their shoulders that haven't been out of one P.P. in their life, you know. That's right. They're all getting their tickets punched. That's it. I love that expression. You're right. They all got a show up on the screen on the scene to get their ticket punched. You're 100% right. What a great expression that is, right? Yeah. And only a cop or someone that doesn't kind of work on this, he's just here to get his ticket punched, you know. Yeah. There's no, there's no partners investigation at all, but he wants to mayor to see him, you know, that's why he's here. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. It's a damn shame the way some people are treated as throwaways and some people are

10:29revered for whatever reason. And their homicide becomes national news. Well, anyway, I'm not going to go on about that. But this is... Well, you know, Lula Morocco brought up Chandra Levy case in DC and that senator, I forgot what his name is even now, but turned out, he was having an affair with him, but he didn't kill her. And she was actually killed by a homeless guy. And that case got unbelievable attention. It probably international attention. Oh, yeah. Sure. Because it involved the politician and, you know, and that's the way the nature of homicide. And, you know, if it's, you know, John Q, nobody, no one cares, right? But if it's someone, John Q, somebody or Jane Q, somebody, everyone is involved in it, you know. Yeah. Well, I mean, and that goes to show you here on this, this Philadelphia case with the horses. We don't know.

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13:44maybe that fell into a back file somewhere. We don't know, but it's awfully sad that they just go unremembered and in such a horrific way as part of something so evil. Barbara, in this picture you see the thumbnail up on the screen, the girl on the bottom left with the blonde hair. Her name is Blair Tonelli. When Eugene Hosh was pulled over in June in Philadelphia by a park police cop, she was in the car, not she wasn't in the car, a woman was in the car with Eugene and she gave the ID of Blair Tonelli. So she was missing and I believe dead. And so she tried to pretend that she was her. And that's how this case really got reignited. And they've recovered guns and drugs and all and the connection to this what's been known as

14:48the horror house, the Hosh horror house. And look, that could be the catalyst that gets some of these cases solved because they had nothing else. So it's Raymond Dors, the old man and the son, Eugene Hosh, who, if they can come up with the evidence, he's the one that's going to pay the piper for this. Mike. Yeah, Bill, I, the more I'm thinking about this and you're thinking in reviewing what's been happening and how long this has gone on. I think Barbara's honestly right. We were, they're talking about five right now that we know of that they named, but there's, that's the tip of the iceberg. And I agree with Barbara, who knows, it might be 45, 50 more. At least double that. So therefore, you know, just think about how many times he did this. And so if every other girl was, if these smartphones was killed, that's a huge number. So

15:50um, but when we probably will never know anywhere near the exact number of girls who he's killed, we have, we might not know just, just, just a few. Hopefully we'll know some more, but at this point, I agree it's the tip of the iceberg. And this has had gone on for so many years. And he got in a way with it for so long, sadly, and thank goodness for that park police officer. And, you know, and the idiocy of that girl to have the missing girls identification honor, we would not even be here talking about it, but at least there'll be some closure for some families. And the more the better, however it ends, if we could just get some closure, those families to say that you daughter that went missing five years ago, or you haven't seen in 10 years, we believe that she passed away there. And it's very least give them some sort of closure, whether it's paint more painful or not, just give them closure. Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, as Bill said earlier,

16:58the police are going to see women on that film on those films with a million images. Many of them were not killed, but, you know, we're let going some way. But then as police look for them to discuss and ask them what happened there? Who was this guy? Do you know of any of the women who were killed? Bill said a lot of them have moved on in life and, you know, built something for themselves. Right. You want to be associated with that anymore? Yeah, and that's easy to understand that former life was horrible and got them into horrific situations. And if they got out of that house, and for having had to do film porn films for narcotics, you know, you don't want to go back there. You don't want to you want to turn that page? You want to put that in the back of your memory? You don't want to let anyone know as you might be, right now, have a family? You don't want any publicity whatsoever. You can already stand that,

18:04that reluctance, you know, it will make things harder for the police, but people want their privacy. Absolutely. You know, folks, this is police off the cuff. If you're not subscribed, hit that subscribe button, like, share and make lots of comments. And if you want to contribute to us financially, we have a Patreon with four different levels. And we also have a YouTube channel membership with five different levels. And you can become what we call an off the cover for as little as two ninety nine a month. What what could you buy for two ninety nine a month that will get you as much as a police off the cuff membership? Also folks, just a quick reminder that the police off the cuff podcast is sponsored by Fandall on the Believe Network. Folks, I want to really emphasize to everyone here what a privilege and an honor it is to have Bob a butcher come on this this show. Not only is she did I work with her when I was in the North

19:07Hamasite squad, but I've been on a TV with her. And I've I've I went to her correct that party you had, but the book signing her book signing, which is here, I can remind you again, this book and I'm not just blowing smoke. What the dead know, it's an unbelievable book. And if you want to learn even more about Barbara butcher because she doesn't hold anything back in this book, she gives you the good, the bad and the ugly and there's plenty of ugly and she does not hold back. And for that, I mean, I I'm such an admirer of us. Anyway, I don't want to keep Barbara here. I don't know about you, but I get pretty excited when football season rolls around. That's why I always make a stop at total wine and more before kickoff, whether it's craft bourbon, cold beer, or ready to drink cocktails, it's easy to build a lineup that keeps everyone happy. And when I'm getting everything ready for game day, it's nice knowing I'm getting the lowest prices. Make total wine and more part of your game day tradition. Spirits are not sold in Virginia and North Carolina drink responsibly, be 21.

20:10Jimmy Conrad here and I have something to put on your radar, the core short from the Ori, because after getting my first pair, I was hooked. They work for everything that I like doing, soccer, tennis, hoops, and lifting weights in them a few. And they're unbelievably comfortable, which is why I wear them doing everything else. They are designed to work for whatever your day throws at you. For our listeners, they're offering 20% off your first purchase. So head to viori.com slash footy. That's v-u-o-r-i.com slash f-o-o-t-y. Exclusions apply, visit the site for full details. DSW VIP days are here. For a limited time, a designer shoe warehouse, VIP members get 25% off regular pie styles in stores and online. Don't wait to shop. This sale only happens twice a year for our very important peeps. Not a VIP? No problem. Join for free today. Save now at DSW stores and DSW.com. Exclusions apply.

21:11I'm pretty confident talking into a mic. Hey, I'm doing it right now. But home projects? I second guess everything. Is that noise normal? Is that water damage? Who do I even call? That's where thumbtack comes in. Just upload a photo or voice note and it uses AI-powered search to match you with the right top rated local pro. So instead of guessing, you get clarity and can hire with confidence. For your next home project, try thumbtack. Hire the right pro today. To ever, and I always tell her I'll try to get her out of here as quickly as possible, but I'm going to go on a mic first with his final comments and I'll go to Barbara for the show with Barbara. Mike, your final thoughts? Barbara, thank you very much because you've taught me today in this show so much more than I knew that I never ever thought I needed to know and some of the horrific things that may have gone on in that house. Not more ways to get away with crime. Thank you for that information. I appreciate it. And I will say the book is a page turner. You could sit there and start and you'll be reading four hours later. You won't be able to put it down because it's

22:14the nitty gritty of real life investigative, investigating homicide. First hand account, it's a fantastic read. I'm start to finish. Thank you so much. You can get it on Amazon. So what's the dead note by Barbara? But your Barbara, your final thoughts? I want to keep you here all night. First of all, thank you, Mike, for the legal perspective on this and for your insights into the evidence and Bill, as always, for putting together people who care about these cases because we all do. And as good to see you both. And let's hope that we get some answers here. At least if the young women can be identified, it's some memorialization of their lives and some some comfort to the family just to know what happened. So let's hope.

23:33That's v-u-o-r-i dot com slash f-o-o-t-y. Exclusion's apply. Visit the site for full details. Hey, it's Kelly Rowland. You may not know this, but I have eczema. So I get how it can still your time. But why let eczema take over when you can talk to your doctor about ebglyss? ebglyss, lubricism app, lbkz, a 250 milligram per 2 milliliter injection is a prescription medicine used to treat adults and children 12 years of age and older, who weigh at least 88 pounds or 40 kilograms with moderate to severe eczema. Also called a topic dermatitis that is not well controlled with prescription therapies used on the skin or topicals or who cannot use topical therapies. ebglyss can be used with or without topical corticosteroids. Don't use if you are allergic to ebglyss. A allergic reactions can occur that can be severe. I problems can occur. Tell your doctor if you have new or worsening eye problems, you should not receive a live vaccine when treated with ebglyss. Before starting ebglyss, tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. Paid partnership with Lily. Respect your time. Ask your doctor about ebglyss and visit ebglyss.com

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