Writer | Gerald DiPego | The Creative Community with David Starkey

0:00NER Welcome to the creative community. I'm your host David Starky and my guest this time is author Gerald DiPago. Jerry, welcome. Thank you. Glad to be here. I'm happy to have you here. One of our mutual friends Ruben Lee Dalton who's been a guest on the show several times cannot stop raving about you. He's like, you've got to have this guy on the show. So I'm glad that we finally were able to make that happen. I'm glad too. Now we're going to go over a lot of stuff because you have had a pretty distinguished career as an author of all sorts of writing. But I know that one of your kind

1:08interesting moments in your life was going to see your first movie at four years old. But can you tell me a little bit about that? Sure. I was about four or five years old and pictured this. My mother is in the afternoon. My mother is walking myself and my brother to what would be my very first movie. And this was before television. So I had never seen any kind of... You had a moving picture at all here. Yeah. Never before. So it's funny in those days people didn't necessarily call up and say what's playing work time. They just went to the movies. So this is an afternoon we walk in and you know people sit down and watch and then after a while somebody will say, this is where we came in. Right. They leave. You wouldn't necessarily go to the start time. Oh no. That's how it was. So she brought us in and sat us down and suddenly there why was.

2:12And on this big screen to me, big screen was a story because movies are stories. So this was my very first story and I was just amazed. And because I was young I didn't always know what was going on. But I was just amazed by the event and by the thing I was watching. And it really lifted me. And I remember looking at my mother and seeing that she was watching the screen in a kind of rapture. And I felt that same rapture. So that was something... How long was it before you thought I want to create what's happening on that screen? Oh wow. Yeah. I wasn't thinking that then. I was just eating it. You were just eating it up. But what was your kind of career path to getting to your first writing assignment? And where was all this taking place?

3:13Well we moved out of Chicago into Round Lake Illinois, little town. And so when I went to college it was northern Illinois. My son's Alma Mater. Oh yeah. That's cool. And that's when I started seriously sending my stories out. Short stories. Because a lot of magazines in those days had short stories. And it took seven years. Oh wow. That's dedication for me. It's more than dedication. It's insanity. But I couldn't stop. I didn't want to stop. And what sort of stories were they primarily character driven or plot driven? Were they for a certain type of genre? What were you writing about? It was all over the place. Yeah. It was all over the place. Whatever struck my mind. Whatever came into your head. Yeah. But during those seven years when I was doing... I taught school for a while. I had

4:18different jobs. I was always writing. But I was also reading better and better authors to help me like Custin's Ackis and Ernest Hemingway. Right. These literary authors who were also popular at the time too. Yeah. So I was feeling myself with that and just kept trying and trying. And seven years went by and I sold my first story to Red Book magazine. Ah good old Red Book. Yeah. That's great. And that was a good sale, right? Yeah. That was a good sale. I mean I was so thrilled. I'm sure. Yeah. It could have paid me a dime. I would have been there. You were a published author then. Yeah. And they asked me for another one. And I sent one in and they printed that too. So I was like flying high. And while I was doing that I started my first novel and I also started learning how

5:22to write film scripts. And when I felt ready I just piled everything into my Volkswagen with my wife and first born son. Right. And we went to LA to see if I could... No job. Lined up or anything? No. Did you just hit a car in some luggage and they'd get it in a way? No I did have one contact. Okay. I did have one contact. They had an advertising. Little tiny advertising industry thing. So I did work for them for a while. While I finished my script and started getting it around and around and it took a long long time. Now what year was this? What year was this? You know that's where memory is. What decade was this year? 50s, 60s? No it was yeah it was 60s. 60s. Okay.

6:25You're shopping your script around. Shipping the script around and I finally got the call. And this man called me and said... By the way this guy was what he was doing is doing movies of the week for one of the television networks. And he said, I like your script and you made my wife cry. Okay. And he said what you wrote is too soft for what we're doing here. So I started it. And he said but I've got four scripts moving toward production and I think you could improve them. Would you come in of course? Right. So that was the beginning. So you were kind of a script doctor in a way. I was a script actor for those four films and then they started giving me my own assignments.

7:26That was this all television at the time? I'll tell. Yeah. And there was if I may go on there was a movie producer who wanted to open an office for TV and he did so and he called me in and he said I want to do a TV movie and it's about two older people. I love a story with two older people and I waited for him to go on and that was it. So I finally had something I could do from scratch. Right. You know. Right. And I wrote this film about an older couple who have to move in with their son and his family because the old man was sick. A story they could be told today. Yeah. Sure.

8:28And I called it a family upside down and this producer could get anybody. He got Helen Hayes in Fred Astaire to play the older couple. Wow. And Fred Astaire, you know, had put away his dancing shoes. They were in their 70s. I think it always been a pretty good actor I think. Pretty good. Yeah. I mean you could not stop the greatest act but he was a very capable actor. And here he goes into a solid kind of film. Right. You know, rather than the wonderful dancing films he did where he was very funny and good. So the film did well and Fred Astaire won his first Emmy for for re-lacting. Through your script. Yeah. You must have been excited. Oh, we're so excited. And the film won a golden globe. Right. And I was just thrilled.

9:31So did you did your life take a different turn at that point? You know, you did what happened at that point. People took notice and somebody in the movie side saw my film or got it and you know, and I was asked to come in and adapt a novel for a movie. And it was called Sharky's Machine. Right. Right. Bert Reynolds. Right. And Bert was going to direct and star in it. So I was thrilled and I had meetings with him. We talked about it and I did the adaptation and you know, all went well and I luckily I started out being able to be there for prep and then be there for the first three weeks of shooting.

10:32And that was what happened for the rest of my writing career. That's what I would do. You'd be around there the early part of that. Yeah. And I think it's important for the writer to be there in case they people come up with changes or they have to cut this or that. You want to have a little say. It was going on. But you know, I think that now we're in 2024. It's important to remember that back then. Let's face it, TV didn't have the same prestige as films did. So that was a really big job. It's all switched around. It's all switched around. Yeah. But no, entering into features was a major deal at that time. And Bert Reynolds was a huge star. Yeah. Yeah. Did you hobnob with Fred Astaire and Bert Reynolds and Helen Hayes or were you just sort of kind of on the periphery as a screenwriter? Because Bert was directing it. We had a lot of give-and-take. You know, didn't become friends friends. But you know,

11:35I'll hit that. But Fred Astaire, let me tell you a brief from a scary story. When we were shooting that film, it was Fred was sitting under a tree and the director said take one, take two, take three. Okay, I've got it. Now actors you have half an hour. So Fred stands up. Now his character used a cane in the movie, but he didn't need the cane. But he picked up the cane, just carried it along and he walked toward his trailer. And suddenly he just was out syncing. He started twirling the cane. He didn't dance, but he twirled that cane. And one by one, all of us looked up, stopped what we were doing, and watched him. That's kind of a magical moment. Yeah, it was a

12:36magical moment. And we all looked at each other when he laughed. We just all worked on each other. It was like we had had a blast. Yeah, you had seen something really important. Well, so I'm looking here at my cheat sheet here. We're working with John Travolta Paul Newman, Anthony Hopkins, Julia Benosh. We've got about 15 minutes. So we can't hear about everybody in detail, but I'm curious to know more about this period in your life when you're working on screenplays. Yeah, it was very exciting. Yeah, what are some of the highlights that you recall? Well, Paul Newman had been my hero ever since I saw him in the hustler. And now here I am working with him. Which film was that? Do you? On the film. It's Message In Robo. Okay. Yeah, it's Message In Robo. He played Kevin Costner's dad. But he was just so full of life, and it was great meeting him and talking to him. And he loved, he just loved the craft.

13:42Yeah. Serious about it, but he had a great sense of humor. And we had some good talks. And he loved to tell really bad jokes. Oh, really? But I just love working with him, and he was still so vibrant. He was in his 70s. Right. Well, I think of him as one of the great screen actors. Yeah. Like you said, he's so devoted to his craft. There's so much nuance with the lifted eyebrows. Oh, everything. Yeah. Who else would impress you as an actor or actress? Well, Anthony Hopkins, I wrote a story called a screenplay called, gee, what was that? Thank you. Instinct. We got a little help from the B&I Gallery. Yeah, it was called Instinct. That's not what I named it, but they named it Instinct. And what a wonderful actor. And what a nice man.

14:46He's very caring man, very kind of soft-spoken caring man. And obviously as soon as he said, yes, I'll do the part that they arranged. And there was, you know, of course, putting a modern airplane to come all the way to the other side of the country where we were shooting and so on. And he said, no, no, that's all right. I'll just drive. Oh, wow. And he drove going to motels around the country just that was part of his preparation for the role. Maybe he's just a loner. Uh-huh. Interesting. I have a loner as a man. But the great thing is that when we were shooting indoors, a bunch of us would be sitting around waiting for the next shot. Right. And he was there. Right. And he would make us laugh so much because he could mimic the voices of all the Brit actors to a very, I mean, you close your eyes and you're listening to Richard Bert

15:50and Lawrence Olivier. Right. And perfect. Right. And so that was one of the things I carried with me. Yeah. Yeah. Well, so now this is all in the 1970s. We're thinking 80s. Uh-uh. By this time? Yeah. Yeah. No, it's mostly the 80s. Okay. So even more than that. Into the 90s as well too. Yeah. You're also though are an author of novels too. So that was not, I mean, we know this is your first love writing short stories for seven years. When did you find your way back into writing for a print? Well, that came early on. I was doing bowls at the same time. And I was working my way through. I mean, I wrote four novels. And, you know, one of them was magical realism kind of thing. And two of them were a detective kind of thing. I was just doing, you know, different. Whatever, whatever. Yeah. And, and then I, you know, this more busy in

16:54movies, but then an idea came to me and I wrote what was then my best novel called Chevy about a young man turning 20 and trying to hold his family together, father and mother, brother and sister. Everybody was, you know, at odds with each other and he was trying to, and that was the story of Chevy and he was narrating it. And so I was very, very happy with that book. And it did pretty well. Well, you know, I'm curious about that those are two really different types of writing. I've written plays and also novels. And I know that there are certain things you can carry over. For instance, if you're good at dialogue, your novel can be full of dialogue. And I think plays teach you about structure and, you know, being compact and not having any wasted scenes, any wasted moments, especially I feel like in the theater, a dead scene seems to go on and on forever even more than

17:57in a film. But what are, I mean, what are some of the things that you saw as crossovers and maybe places where those two mediums were kind of at odds? You know, I didn't think of it that way. I really didn't. I just, I just want to write. I just loved all those different kinds of writing. I did some plays. I did this and that. But I just, I just loved sinking into this kind of thing. And then, okay, now I'll do a script. And I just loved each one. Right. Not one more than the other. Okay. So, when we talk about your novels and we got about ten minutes left, was there a certain point when you thought, well, Hollywood is, and I are ready to part ways, are you still involved? I mean, was there a time because you're not living in the San Ana as Valley. Talk me through that kind of 80s, early 90s, maybe transition from to,

18:58to where you are now. Yeah, I, I aged out of movies. Okay. And I don't mean they kick me out. I mean, I just, I had done enough right over that. And it's, you know, it's very hard work. And, you know, it's, it can go bad, it can go good. You know, there's all that kind of thing. So, I felt, you know, nice going back to the novel form. And, and my, my novel, most recent novel, came in last March. So, and I really had a good time doing that. And I, I put it on stage in little pieces in the San Ana as Valley. I had so much fun putting up things on the valley with local actors. Right. And, and so I turned that into, into a novel. And that came up, you know, recently, and now I'm working on another one. But now and then I love to write short stories.

20:01And I'm going to do a show with Cynthia. Cynthia, and we both are going to be reading our stories. So I love doing that. Right. All different kinds. Yeah. Well, and I, as I understand it to your, your, your family is also a bunch of writers as well too. Is that, or they inspired by you? How did that? How did that, you know, I, I guess so, although they went off on their own ways, you know, I have two sons, wonderful guys. And they married wonderful women. And one of them, he and his wife are, are writers. And they started in the romance part of writing. And, and the other guy, Justin has, you know, done, done several books. But they both said, Dad, let us help you bring out this new book. So they're going to help me get this book out.

21:04Right. You know, when it comes about. So one of the things I find when I'm publishing a book is that there's an expectation of the part of the publisher that you're going to do a bunch of social media and maybe to a web advertisement, stuff like that. From our mutual friend Rubin, it sounds like that's not necessarily something that you would dive into. Is that, is that correct? Well, actually, when I went back to the, the novel form, I did self-publishing. I just wanted to try that myself. How did it work? It worked okay. I wasn't feeling well at that time. So I should have done more. I could have done, I was supposed to do more. And that's why it's so nice. I'm feeling a bit much better now. And my sons are going to help me. So I think this new book will get a better on trade out there. Right. Well, tell me a little bit about the, the, the, the San Diego theater scene. Is that something I don't know that much about? I know that, um,

22:06you're bringing people in to, to do bits and pieces. I mean, they're, are they short? Exerts from the novel that they string together as a full-length play. What, what, how's that work? All different kinds. I did it for years. Everything from comedies to, you know, serious stuff. And where is this taking place? What's the venue? Various venues in the San Diego. Even the high school stage. Okay. And also some, the Maverick, I know, other places. And I just had such a great time. And we didn't, uh, often we didn't charge anything for it. We were just having fun up there. Having people come in to take a look, yeah. Yeah. And other times we'd make it an end, you know, there would be some entity and people would pay to come in, but that would go to the entity in the San Ernest Raleigh, but needed some money. Right. But we just had a ball. Yeah. Well, it's, it's a, interesting and creative place. So,

23:08so our friend, uh, Ruben is a musician primarily, but also a poet. Yes. Um, another guest we've had on, um, Dan Kerber, is a very well-known poet. Wonderful. And I assume that there are a lot of sort of film people sprinkled around in there on those re-enches and stuff like that. Is that the case? Yeah, but, you know, a lot of them like Dan and myself. We're, you know, we don't go out much. Right. Okay. We love to write our things. Right. And once in a while, Dan will do a reading. Right. I'll do a reading, you know, but it's, uh, yeah, it's just spotty here and there and Ruben. Yeah, he's done some. He's everywhere. Yeah. Yeah. Well, we get, we just have about four and a half minutes left and, um, you've got such a, a long, distinguished career. I would love to hear about four and a half minutes worth of advice to, to aspiring writers and think about our TV audiences, both maybe, you know, 15, 16 year old

24:13kid is just starting out. Um, and then someone, my age and their 60s who, who's always wanted to write, but never has. Yeah. What are some of the, the best pieces of advice that you've learned from your own experience over the years and, and maybe also that you've read about or the pieces of advice that, that folks have given to you? Yeah. Well, in my later years, I wrote a, a, a book about how I write. Right. It's not like, this is how you should write. Right. It's just, this is how I write. And I had to pull in things that, you know, I, what didn't even know I was doing. But so what are some of the, one of some of the things that you said? Well, just the depths, you know, that's the first thing that comes to mind is when you're writing, say to yourself, go deeper. Okay. Go deeper. Sink into this. Because what you're going to get are nuggets, nuggets of things, you know, you can write on the level, you know, and enjoy your writing and so on. But go deeper.

25:18What's down in there? What makes it yours? And not the same as many other writers. But what's going to make it yours? And I think it's, it's digging down to the depth. And I, you know, I write novels. I don't write things about my life. So you're making it up. But the characters you're inventing and what they're doing, the deeper you can go, even in lighter, fairer still, the deeper you can go into a character, the character becomes more real to the audience and reader. So how do, I mean, that's an interesting thing because one of the, the bromides of teaching creative writing, which I've said many times myself is, is, is right about what you know. You're saying you don't necessarily write about yourself. How do you find that way and deeper into a character that is someone other than yourself? It's hard, it's hard to put that into words, you know, in other words,

26:18you're walking along and you get an idea and I wonder if that'll work like the movie phenomenon. What if there was somebody who was the smartest person on earth? What would he be like? Right. No, let's make him this way and let's make him that way. And so you begin, you know, to make a character. Okay. You know, it's a construction kind of. Yeah. That's what it is. It's a construction and the deeper you go, the better it's going to be. What else? We still got a minute or two. What other piece of advice would you give to young writers or older writers? Just books. Well, obviously the corny thing is don't give up. No, I think that's a great piece of advice. That's a number one in a way. Seven years of writing before I sold anything, you know, so just keep at it and read, read really good books and it'll, you know, it's not like you're studying. It's just that you're reading this wonderful, you know, the heart is a lonely hunter or, you know,

27:23deep, good stuff and it's going to go inside of you. You don't have to make notes or anything. It's going to get inside of you. That's kind of osmosis a little bit. Yeah, I think so. How do you find those good books? I mean, friends, reading lists online, what would you, how would you tell someone to find a bunch of good books? Yeah, Amazon, the book law. I just a good bookstore. I could person at a good bookstore. Chosters, we've just had them on the show. Oh, good. That's a great, great place. Sure. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Well, I'm going to end on that note. Trusting the bookseller. I think that's a good thing to do. Jerry has been real pleasure to get you out of your house here onto the TV studio and adhere so much. Oh, thanks. Thanks for being on the program. Thank you so much. I really enjoyed it. The creative community is a co-production of TVSB in Santa Barbara and Caps Media and Ventura. I'm your host, David Starky and we'll see you next time.