WTF Is Happening On Threads?

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1:00Music Hey, I'm Kate Lindsay, and you're listening to ICYMI, or in case you missed it, Slates Podcasts about Internet Culture. And today on the show, we are joined by creator Francesca Ramsey. Hello, Francesca. Hi. Oh my gosh, I'm so excited to have you here. Francesca is a comedian, a long time creator. I think I first met you quotes on YouTube. We referenced Francesca's work before. In fact, not that long ago, Francesca, we got put in Instagram jail for sharing one of your videos. Can you guess which one? Music I'm sorry. I know exactly the one I made a super cut about Kylie's Metaglasses.

2:02And Instagram didn't like that. And a lot of people got little things on their account for it, which was very strange. And to me, telling because I didn't, I didn't say anything, you know, on on Kai. I'd actually say anything. Yeah, for rappers, people listening, maybe we can play a little bit of the video just so we knew. I just see you have context for what I'm about to explain because this is a reveal that we've been fighting with Instagram. For some reason when I'm here, it's hard for me to leave the house. How do you think that is? Honestly, paparazzi. Our new line of metaglasses. We partnered with Kylie. Telecom actors circling about your house, trying to pop shots of you. We never try to give them a photo. Several women were covertly filmed with other consent by men using smart glasses. We love a tech moment. We love a tech moment. That's always my favorite part. Yeah, so we just had played that in our episode. And then, you know, what I do after each episode, ooh, a little Instagram plug on Instagram. As I usually try and just in a carousel put together any visuals or videos that we reference.

3:04So I'd thrown that in there and it's funny because I had seen people saying in your comments on that video, I got dinged for this. And this is my fault. I was just like, oh, they didn't scrum wrong somehow. They did something. I just was like, it won't happen. Yeah. It didn't happen to everyone. Like, you know, I created the content and I didn't get a notification. That was my, I was gonna be my question. It's just what people sharing it. And so we shared it almost immediately. We were dinged for coordinating, quote, coordinating harassment. Oh, what? And so everybody got different things. Coordinating harassment is so interesting because nowhere in that video is a harassment being encouraged. It is a critique highlighting the hypocrisy of Kylie Jenner having all these concerns about her privacy while also promoting metaglasses that are being used to violate women, violate people's privacy but in the Missonsons specifically women. And I got promotion of fraudulent material

4:06or some people got stolen. Not stolen like fraudulent goods or something. Like we got a really irrelevant one and then, well, this is also what's crazy is that like, I don't know if anyone has ever had to deal with like, the behind the scenes of like a meta product in terms of like, you're account getting hacked into us and like this. It is impossible to reach a human. It's impossible. So we were definitely just getting robots incorrectly identifying this thing and they had like, we weren't allowed to go live for a year. There was some other stuff that didn't apply to us, but the live one was a problem because we literally just started doing that. Although people listening now will know there's been a happy ending because we just went live. It's funny because Instagram themselves, when we were talking to a human, they said they reviewed it again and it stood the, the, the, the thing, which I'm like, no, you did it! It's like, oh, no. It's very obvious that they use AI to review things, which I think is ironic because it just exemplifies the problems with AI. The thing that is frustrating to myself and many others with this case specifically

5:07is I will have people use full blown slurs in my comments. But when I report that, it's not a problem. But then, you know, again, this supercut and this has been a format that I've been experimenting with recently because what I really like about it is it is open to interpretation. Like I clearly have a point of view when I make the supercut, but it is more difficult for people to say like, oh, you're misrepresenting what I've said. When I'm just showing you things that have been said and for me, the Supreme irony was that a lot of those clips are already shared on Instagram, on Facebook, on TikTok, on YouTube. And they have not gotten any violations on those platforms when they're shown separately. But putting them together is what suddenly is called into question as for the legitimacy of it. Yeah, I still, I'm like, there's something in it that is like tripping up whatever AI they're using because they just really, objectively, really isn't.

6:09But like I said, we were able to go live again. This was literally one of those problems that we just kept checking and it appeared to fix itself. And we just ignored it and hoped it got better. And it did. But that can't be like the status quo for how to deal with these issues because, yeah, it was. Right. I mean, even because I'm like a people, please, and so even though I knew we were in the right, when I got the initial sort of scolding message, I reacted like I was. Of course, back in school. I'm like, no, I didn't. I didn't. I'm good. I promise. And so I think that's one of those things where like in the big schema thing, so life will go on. But when you are unfairly penalized, like it's very natural to be like, this is ridiculous. I actually didn't, you know, if I did something wrong, I will take the L. But this is an instance where I didn't do anything wrong. And it is, it's unfair. And it's extra frustrating because again, it's just social media. It's not the end of the world. But ultimately, like these platforms are integral to our careers. So like I need, and I need my Instagram account

7:11in order to connect with friends and family to promote my work. It's part of my business and similarly for you. And so yeah, it's reasonable that it would be frustrating and upsetting to be like, oh no, my account's in danger. I didn't do anything wrong. Yeah, I'm like, I'm gonna die. I don't know. I've never, this is my life. Well, today we are not straying too far from the world of Instagram because we have asked Francesca to join us to talk about threats. Specifically, why is threads like that? And yet the best Twitter replacement we've got. [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ Just a quick heads up before we launch you into an ad break, the end of this episode will feature an excerpt from today's bonus episode, which goes out to all Slate Plus subscribers. You have probably heard us telling you to subscribe to ICYMyPlus. But we also wanted to show you what you've been missing so you can take advantage of our limited time, half-priced discount offer using the code ICYMy50.

8:13It's not just bonus episodes. It's our close friend stories on Instagram and our emergency lives about things like the COVID-19 Conscious Lesbian Bar and Massachusetts that only Slate Plus subscribers can access whenever they want. We even asked our Plus subscribers to send in their own reasons why they love being a member. And this is what one of them said. Thank you for having meaningful conversations and asking many thought-provoking questions. I feel way more informed than I ever did while I was online. My husband and I often listen to your podcast separately and then have fun conversations about them at dinner. I love that. So whenever you get done listening to this, maybe it's after you finish doing the dishes or brushing your teeth or just parked your car, head to Slate.com slash ICYMyPlus and use the code ICYMy50 to get 50% off all of these perks. We have so much more in store for a Slate Plus member so you won't want to miss out on all the internet tea. All right, now to the ad break, which, by the way, if you're a Slate Plus member, you don't have to listen to. This message is brought to you by Apple Card. It's a new school year, which means yet another back to school shopping list.

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11:18So anyone on your team can pick up a conversation, see the full history, and respond fast. No more, wait, who talked to this customer last? And if you're worried about after hours lead slipping through, Quo's optional built-in AI agent can answer questions and even book appointments while your team's offline. It's the number one rated business phone system on G2, and over 90,000 businesses already trust it to stay reachable. Money is on the line. Always say hello with Quo. Try Quo for free. Plus get 20% off your first six months when you go to Quo.com slash tech. It's quo.com slash tech. . . . And we're back. I have been wanting to do this episode for a really long time. We've had this floating of just like, when are we going to just get to the bottom of what's going on with threads?

12:18Because threads, like Blue Sky, launched as this alternative to Twitter after Elon Musk took over. He took over at the end of 2022, the sort of alternative sort of launching in the year after. Unlike Blue Sky, which is like an independent platform, threads is another meta platform. And so you have to have an Instagram actually to join it. People were so excited to try this new platform that 30 million people joined threads at once when it launched. Francesca, where are you one of them? No, I wasn't. I'd be grudging. I'd be grudgingly joined because meta dangled money in front of me. They were like, hey, do you want the, I just got an email one day that said, hey, we're offering you, I think it was like $1,200 a month in order to get you on threads. And I was like, you know, I really didn't want to join because I was like, oh, another social platform. And I quit Twitter in 2023.

13:18Yeah. And so I was like, I don't really need this, but I was like, I could use $1,200 a month. Yeah. I would be on no hesitation. I was like, to just talk shit, which I'm already doing for free. I'm fine with that. So that's how I got on there. And again, I, first I couldn't really figure it out. It was very strange because it wasn't Twitter, but it was Twitter. But yeah, that's how I got over there. And then once the threads bonus was gone, I was like, well, now I like it here. Yeah, now I'm close off. I've hooked in. Yeah. I joined threads. I think right when it launched because I was like, I'm doing journalism. And I was like, I got as he was happy here. Yeah. I mostly fell off because I just don't, I don't have another social media app in me. I was talking to Ben who helps engineer this. And I was like, yeah, I'm not really on threads or blue sky. And he was like, how aren't you, like, isn't this your job? And I was like, I can't, I can't do more apps. There was also another reason that I was like, you know, it's probably for the best that this app is not on my phone.

14:18Is because, you know, that I'm thinking of you being offered like $1200 a month. That's hazard pay, really, because threat is for lack of better words. Often that shit crazy. Oh, it's insane. It's insane. Yeah, I have been bookmarking some of the wildest posts on threads that I've seen over the years. Usually it's people referencing them again because I'm not super on it. But I just want to put some of them up. I know Vick has taken an image. The first one is a link I've just titled mermaid trauma. So this is just, I guess, and listen, you can speak to this better than I can. This is actually representative of threads culture. But this is this was posted on a different platform. Someone posted two days after I met my soulmate, I experienced a past life regression in which I witnessed what caused the fall of Atlantis. It completely changed my spiritual path. Trigger warning, essay for sexual assault, wound trauma and mermaid trauma. And that's one of 12. There are 11 more posts after that. The identifier of how many threads are going on is so funny.

15:19And listen, I have an experienced mermaid trauma. So I don't even know what that means. I don't know what that means. I don't know what that means. But that is an example of like you can learn a new thing. And by new thing, I mean mermaid trauma on threads like every day. Here's another, this was a kind of thread specific controversy that happened, which was Pepsi's wild cherry. Oh my god. Was accused of perpetuating rape culture. No, this one was so bad. Yes, this was, this felt like it was cooked up by like a right way. Yes, yes. To make people on the left look stupid. Yes, this is because I almost wrote about this from my newsletter. And then I was like, I don't even want to. Basically, they were like Pepsi wild cherry is when like Pepsi stops asking for permission. Like something like that of like, you know, don't like, you know, like really disconnected. They were using wild to mean that you, you know, get out of your own way.

16:21And then, oh, it was like when when cherry Pepsi stops asking for permission is when it is cherry Pepsi becomes wild Pepsi. And it was really strange that it turned into they are co-signing sexual violence. This is, you know, rape culture. This is about consent because I read it as, you know, there's a very popular, like, quote graphics that are like stop asking for permission. It's like girlboss coded, you know, something that you'd hear like Tony Robbins say. Like, you know, just like, you know, take, take life by the horns type of language. And it had nothing to do. And even the fact that people were deciding that wild cherry was a woman. It was like very, yeah, don't you know, I was like, who, like, where did you guys decide? It was just very strange. Like the green M&M. Yeah, it was very strange. And so it turned into, you know, Pepsi released a statement. And I was of the mind like they shouldn't have said anything because it's just like kept the discourse cycle going.

17:26But it got really contentious. There were people that were, you know, screaming at one another and saying that it was triggering to survivors. And then it turned into like, if you disagree, then you are not safe to be around. And I was just like, guys, everyone needs to go outside. Right. That's an incitement. And this is a brand tweet. Like, it's, it's really not. Yes. And now as somebody who, I've been in the social space for a long time, but I'm now working at an agency as a creative director, there was a big conversation around like, the intern that posted this which I hate when people used that language. Like, this is a major corporation. no doubt in my mind that there was a Slack channel created just for the threads of Pepsi and they are having a meeting to go through potential things to post. It's a whole song and dance before anything gets to social. And so the idea of someone is gonna be fired

18:27or someone went rogue. It's like that's not what happened at all. If anything, this was a coordinated thing that everyone signed off on. And they're only the only thing they could have done better and people had posted similar to this. So I'm kind of ripping them off was like, was they didn't fail to account for just how crazy people can be. And listen, you can sometimes you really can't anticipate it. And then sort of the last one that I'll throw up, there's so many more, but someone posted on notes. I like looking at threads sometimes, but my entire feed is just elderly people being scammed at this point. Is it this way for everyone else? There's my algorithm particularly cursed. And it is just a lot of people shouting, love you Sandra Bullock into the void, or I want my car back. I mean, a part of me is like someone, this is fake, but I didn't see him. Well, the other thing is is that a lot of people don't know that their threads account is linked to their Facebook. So there's a lot of threads lore from people

19:27who are posting something on Facebook. They don't know that it's linked to threads. Like there's one. So he's sad. A woman was posting on her Facebook that her husband had passed away. And so she said, like, hey, something, it was something of the effect of like just an update Michael has passed. And now that has become like a joke on threads, like something will go crazy and the replies will just be like, Michael has passed. And because she didn't know that it was going on and she's just like this context list, just and it sounds like she's talking to just the wider public, like just so you all know on threads. Yeah. Yes, exactly. There's been a number of those. Like there was a woman once who was having some sort of drama with her daughter around her wedding. And she was like disinvited from the wedding. And again, clearly she was posting to her Facebook audience about her upset over the wedding. But it got to threads. And then everybody's like, tag me when the daughter tries in and then the daughter made a statement. And then it was just like this thing which just kept going. And it does, it is a very specific thing

20:31that happens on threads that I haven't seen on other platforms. Well, that was going to be my sort of question. And I do think what you're even saying there with like people don't realize that their Facebook posts are sometimes they've unknowingly connected to threads. And that's where it's going. That could be a reason. But like one of the, I mean, this is the million dollar question of like why is threads like that? But like why are we seeing posts about like mermaid trauma on threads? Like why is someone like this isn't for blue sky? Like what? And maybe just even more speaking more broadly. Like what makes something threadsy? Yeah, I do think the Facebook connection is part of it. I think it's like a very specific type of person that's using threads. I also think, I think this is also part of like the loneliness epidemic. Like a lot of posts that I see on threads. I'm like, you need a journal. You need a, you need a journal and a friend. And I often go to people's replies

21:32just to see the types of things that they're posting. And it can tell you a lot about a person. Like you'll see someone who is just like in real time sharing every grievance that they have in their daily life on threads and no one is responding. And then they just have one random one that hits the algorithm and goes viral and everybody starts kind of chiming in and making jokes. And so I think there's just a lot of people because it's linked to Instagram. A lot of people just automatically had a threads account again and similarly with Facebook. So I think that's why people are drawn to that platform over blue sky. And then I do think it really speaks to a specific type of person again, like on Facebook, I still have a very active Facebook fan page. I get a lot of weirdos. A lot of weirdos that you just don't encounter on other parts of the internet. And I think for a lot of people, Facebook is their one and only social media so they don't actually understand

22:32the quote unquote rules of the internet. Like they don't understand how to read sarcasm or they don't understand meme language. Like I've seen many times you'll respond with a reaction meme and people are like, who is that lady? I don't know. Who's that person? Who is that person? What does she have to do with this? I'm like, oh my god, I show your parents and meme. And they're like, is that your friend? Yeah, and you're like, oh my god, this is your first day on the internet and you don't actually understand. And so I, or even things like, you know, using all caps or asking rhetorical questions, or I've had a number of times where someone will respond to a thread that I've made and they will say, why am I seeing this? And I'm like, well, you interact with them. Oh, yeah, this is classic. Now you are going to see more of it, right? Like if you don't want to see my post, that's totally fine. You can block me or just not, you know, why am I seeing so many posts about X, Y and Z? Well, congrats.

23:33You've now told the algorithm you want to see more of that because you're posting about it. But again, these are people who are doing, they're like novice internet users, interacting with people who are, you know, we are master's level internet folks. Yeah, yeah, no, and I think, I think the, there's, threads is actually, obviously it launched as a Twitter sort of replacement. But it's actually like quite unique in terms of, an app and it's like origin where like, we've, so we've talked about, you know, Instagram is sort of the prerequisite. And so while there were people coming to threads from Twitter, there were, there are just as many people who are coming to threads from Instagram, which is an entirely different culture, which like, there were jokes about like, we're about to see what the people who post the static pictures actually have to say. And it's not much, right? But it's like, if you're not coming from Twitter, you are not exactly saying you're not coming with that same language. And you're coming almost a little more, more blank.

24:36And then you have those two, those two cultures, you will like, clashing. And which I think is also a case of the fact that it was 30 million people at once because normally a platform tends to start smaller and power users emerge as it grows and they dictate the culture. This was not that. It was like everyone in the pool. And it was also like the mass exodus from Twitter because people who are like Instagram native, I don't think that they understand like how conversations like evolve in the way that Twitter users do. Like there are all these like inside jokes and Twitter when Twitter was at its best, what I loved about it is that I could interact with really smart individuals who had like very specialized interests and experiences. And I could learn about, it was just like getting to ease drop on conversations that I would never get to participate in. And so when those people came to threads, they brought that culture with them

25:37versus the people from Instagram and Facebook who kind of used social media like a diary. And so to your point about clashing up against each other, one of my favorite interactions but is also so like cringe worthy is when you will see someone who is like a doctor or like a specialist or like an entertainment journalist say something not their perspective like speaking from a place of authority and then some random person will be like, who do you think you are? You don't know what you're talking about. And the person's like I literally wrote the book on this. That is what I do. These are people who are not accustomed to like checking the profile, like I look at the person's profile. Like who are you? Why are you talking about this? But that's not how they interact. They are just looking at every piece of content needs to be hyper specific to them and their interest. And if it's not, they get really angry. And it makes for some really weird interactions there. Yeah, which I think again, the idea of getting angry at what your algorithm is showing you and blaming it

26:38on the person, that also feels very like, you're not this, you're new. Yeah, like you're new in the sense of like this, you are not from here. I also think that it's a big result of like the for youification of the internet. Something that I talk about a lot is what you've probably talked about this on the show before, the idea of like bean soup, which comes from, you know, it's real definition is context collapse, but it comes from this girl made a video on TikTok where she was making a bean soup. She needed lots of iron for her period. This is the recipe for the high iron soup you need to eat on your period. And one of the top comments was, what if I don't like beans? And that has now become a shorthand for someone making a piece of content that is speaking to a specific audience and then here comes somebody outside of the audience and they're like, well, what if I don't like beans? And it just happens so much because I really think because TikTok has perfected showing you content that really speaks to you and makes you feel seen.

27:40And similarly, the threads algorithm, they have a for you page and you will often be served content that's like, hey, are you a late stage bisexual divorcee with a dog with a under bite? And I'm like, yes, I am. How did you know? And then you see another piece of content that's not about you. And again, the loneliness epidemic for people who don't feel seen, I think that's why they get so angry about it. Yeah, it feels like a violation or, yeah, I'm just feeling misunderstood, I guess. I mean, and then you have, so there's a few people, I think it's like newer to the internet. So our behaving in ways that I think Rita's cringed to us because we are, I agree, for lack of a better term, like further along in our literacy. But then I also think, chronically, oh my, yeah, that's probably the more accurate term. Yeah, further along in our literacy is being so kind to us. But, but, you know, I think there is, or at least this was a theory by a writer named Katie Natopoulos who did a really funny piece about,

28:42kind of, she identified a lot of what we're seeing on threads as engagement bait, whether or not the person is doing it on purpose or not. But, oh, a lot of it is purposeful. Yes, and that's, so that was kind of her thing is like, she wrote for business inside of where she kind of tried some engagement bait and just put the most nonsense stuff out there. Yes, oh my God, her, she was so funny. So funny. So funny, I'll put some of her posts up on the Instagram because it was things like, when we have people over for dinner, we Americans, we put them in the living room, while we eat and then we come out and enjoy, like it was, completely made up. But people were just like, what do you mean? You don't eat with them or whatever. Like completely falling right into her trap and her theory is kind of like, thread seems to have a lot of nice users whose primary exposure to social media is Instagram, nice decent normal people who still retain a shred of human decency and haven't blown out their dopamine receptors from years of shit posting on other less savory platforms. She's like, this is probably a good thing, but it also means they're easy marks for engagement baiters pulling out the same tricks they used on other platforms,

29:43which I think is, I'm sure like half of the stuff I see and I'm like, threads is crazy, is someone on purpose doing that. I think a good example is John Paul Brammer, JP Brammer who writes, Ola Poppy, he posted on notes, you can tell notes is my primary text based platform. He was like, sometimes I get bored and cancel myself on threads for saying whatever the fuck. And he went and posted, please stop telling psychics how to feel about carry. A lot of us, especially those with telekinesis, have a complicated relationship with the film. And he just showed a bunch of the replies that people taking it totally serious. People don't understand sarcasm on threads. I mean, again, I think this is also the literacy crisis, which is a thing I talk about all the time, but I see a lot of comedians. And again, the thing I always tell people when it comes to media literacy, especially with AI, is like when you come across a piece of content that upsets you or confuses you, I always encourage you to look at the source. It usually will tell you a little bit more

30:43about where it's coming from. The amount of comedians who will post an obvious sarcastic shit post. Yes. And people are taking it totally seriously. And then you go to their page and it says comedian. Yes, really. It's not real. Yeah. Clearly they are joking. I remember there was a comedian who posted a really brilliant joke. I'm going to butcher it. But it was something along the lines of, you know, why are people using GoFundMe's for weddings? Everyone knows you're supposed to use GoFundMe for when you get a cancer diagnosis. And like, again, she's clearly critiquing the health care system. And she also, I did some digging. She did a set on Conan and she had made a very similar joke about health care. The amount of people in her mentions that were like, your friend needs, you're a bad friend if you don't donate to your friends when GoFundMe. And it's like, oh my God, there's no friend. She's making a joke. By do you think when comedians do their set and are like, this happened to me this week that it actually happened to them?

31:44It didn't. I, well, you know, you say that in just, but I think a lot of people do think that. We'll be back with more of my conversation with Francesca after this break. Your call has been forwarded to an automatic voice message system. A missed call doesn't feel like anything. No red flag, no notification screaming at you. It just disappears into your call log. And nine times out of 10, that was someone ready to hand you money. That's why today's episode is brought to you by Quote. Spelled QUO. The business phone system built so you never miss a call. Here's what I like about it. All your calls, texts, and voicemails live in one place. So anyone on your team can pick up a conversation, see the full history, and respond fast. No more, wait, who talked to this customer last? And if you're worried about after hours lead slipping through, Quote's optional built-in AI agent can answer questions

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33:51I mean, I can like dunk on threads all day, because it's really some of the funniest stuff. But I also know that it is like, it is a good place for people. I think particularly, I mean, I know one area that it really thrives would be fandom, like TV books. I think one of the reasons is the particularly good place is, it's really well organized. The same way that Twitter had like hashtags on threads, you can sort of post, you can make a post and sort of tag it into a category, so it'll be like, you know, WNBA or just books or podcasts, which basically means you're sending your thoughts directly to the people who you want to see it. I feel like book talk and book threads are very closely linked. Yeah, but they also crazy. They crazy, they crazy with it. Yes, yes, it's good for fandom. The thing that I've found is like, I made a lot of friends on Twitter. I made a lot of really like deep friends on Twitter.

34:55And similarly on threads, I've made some really great friends there. People who've crossed over into like real life friends. I think it's a really powerful promotional tool. The thing that's nice about the For You page for better or for worse is it does seem to be an equal opportunity. You don't need a ton of followers to have something go viral there. If you have an interesting perspective, if you're a really good storyteller, you can very quickly build an audience there. And I've found it to be like really great for my podcast, for example. Yeah. A lot of my podcast traffic is coming directly from threads. And I use, oh my god, does I see why I need to get on threads? I mean, you might want to get on threads. I mean, I have seen huge spikes in our viewership based on the way that I promote the pod on threads. And I use threads a lot as like a testing ground for ideas.

35:55Like if there's an idea for a video essay that I'm working on, I use threads to see like, is there an appetite for this conversation? Like, what are people saying about it? I look at the trends on threads and I often use that as jumping off points on the pod. And so I do think there's good and bad. Like any platform, I think you just have to take it with a great assault. And I'll also say as somebody that is unfortunately dealt with a lot of harassment online, threads is really good about you can hide for all. Oh, that is my favorite. You start running your mouth and my, and my mentions hide for all. No one is going to see what you have to say. You are shouting into the void, you know, and that was one of the big reasons that I left Twitter is when they made the changes to verification. I got verified when I got my first TV job because I dealt with a lot of harassment and impersonation. And so once Elon made it that anybody could be verified

36:56and that your comments would be prioritized because of the verified check, I was like, ah, this is not a safe place for me anymore. Versus on threads, if I block someone, no one sees what they're saying. Like it just shows up as like unavailable. And that is a, that's a huge plus for me. And similarly, like if somebody quotes you or quotes you, you can remove the quote. Like you're not going to see that. Yeah, because that is where the lot of the dunking happens in quotes. Sure. I'm like, you're not going to go on the, I'm going to, make your own post if you need to, but you're not going to piggyback on what I'm saying and misrepresent me. So those are the things I think. And also if you block someone on threads, it automatically blocks them on Instagram too. And I'm like, that's nice. It's interesting. I'm doing so well where it's interesting that threads is such a good tool for that where I feel like, I mean, I guess Instagram is good about. I'm just thinking like meta in general doesn't have a great reputation for the ability

37:56to block harassment. And so it is interesting that threads is so, threads has got it right. Yeah, they really do. And it leads me to believe kind of jumping off what you said prior about having flags on your Instagram account. Meta is a huge company. And it appears to me that there's not communication happening between the different factions. Because if I could have those tools on Facebook, it would make my Facebook experience so much better. And I mean, I think when I block people, oh no, you know what, you can hide people's comments on Facebook and they just shout into the void or they're still commenting and they don't know they've been, they've been hidden. But being able to like, remove the quote, for example, like I don't think that that's possible on Facebook. And I've definitely had sometimes where people have reshared my post to kind of misrepresent what I've said. And that would be a nice feature to just remove the post from them. Yeah, so threads is actually like a good place

38:57for, you know, fandom discussion and has great moderation tools. And I wonder if that is also why it was just kind of coincidentally as we were working on this friend of the show Jason Parham wrote a piece for Wired called Black Twitter is thriving on threads. And we've covered Black Twitter before and Jason kind of wrote like the piece on it. Just in case their listeners aren't familiar, could you briefly describe Black Twitter? And I'm curious if you agree that it has moved to threads. Oh, I 1,000% agree and I have many sources to why. But for the unfamiliar, Black Twitter was not a separate location. As some people have thought like, was it a separate site? It's like, no, it's just a bunch of Black people on Twitter talking about pop culture and politics and history and their personal lives and like finding community on Twitter. And often really shaping culture by way of like memes and language. One of the most famous ones is the Zola,

39:57which went on to become a movie. Like that was a that was a viral Twitter thread that we watched happen in real time. And so when things went down hill at Twitter, there were a lot of people who had found audiences there that were like, where do we go? And a number of us migrated to threads myself begrudgingly. And we're reconnecting with people that we had, other Black people that we had met on Twitter. And so yeah, there is like a huge Black Threads community. My theory is that Black people always are at the forefront of culture. Whether it be look at the memes that you use, there is it's whether it's Nini Leaks or J. Versace. Like Black people are in all of those memes. A lot of the jokes and the colloquialism, colloquialism that people use are AAVE. Black people are always shifting culture in music and entertainment and fashion and beauty.

40:58And so it's unsurprising that we do the same on social media. Unfortunately, we're not always able to profit off of it, which is why we see Addison Ray on Jimmy Kimmel teaching dance moves that she cobbled from Black dancers on TikTok. But yeah, a lot of times when you look at the trends on threads or on Twitter, because there's still a lot of Black people that have stayed on Twitter, a lot of the trending topics are from Black people. Yeah. Yeah. I'm curious, are you on Blue Sky? I am on Blue Sky. I don't really use it very often. I mostly just like cross post things that are going viral for me elsewhere. And or like when I have a new episode of the pod, like I share it there, I'm not as active there. I just don't feel like it has the culture there. Yeah, just because I'm thinking about like, oh, I wonder what about threads made it sort of fertile ground for Black Twitter.

41:58And I was, again, this is I think senior supervisor producer Daisy sent this post from Said Jones on Blue Sky. And I looked into it. There were some, as controversy's always I when you actually get to the main tweet that caused it, it's like this is nothing, a tweet, main post. But it was because Tressie McMillan Cotton wrote, technology enthusiasts severely overestimate the average person's desire or willingness or capacity to build and use AI agents. Completely benign statement. I guess it kicked off like an insane discourse inside on Blue Sky. Yeah. And I guess Said quote tweeted part of the discourse and was like, there remains an active campaign to reply her ass black people off this platform. And it's not on us to solve this problem. It's on y'all. So I'm like wondering if that is also contributing to threads like being, it just has a more welcoming space. Yeah, I love Tressie. She is a genius. And she's such an astute cultural commentator. And I don't know that it's specific to Blue Sky.

42:59Unfortunately, it's everywhere. I've dealt with it on threads too. I think there is especially as a black person, especially as a black woman. There is a certain subset of folks that are quick to well actually. It's like an amplified version of mansplaining mixed with white explaining where it's like, let me explain to you your experience. And you don't know when you should do this. And Tressie specifically is someone who, you know, she has a PhD. She has written like some incredible books. Like she is very smart. There is nothing controversial about that post. But there is something about seeing a successful, educated black woman standing tentos down in her opinion that sends bigots frothing at the mouth. It happens to me all of the time. Where like, you know, most recently I chimed in on a conversation about influencers needing to go back into a nine to five into a traditional field.

44:00And I was saying like I am somebody who has had a lot of success in entertainment and in social media, but also has gone back to a regular job. Like, you know, you got to do what you got to do. And I got some comments from people that were like, have you ever actually tried to have an entertainment career? I'm like, yes, I have. Like what are you talking about? I have a whole IMDB, but it's just seeing a black person chiming in on something that sends them, makes them believe like there's no way you could know what you're talking about. Someone that looks like you can't have experience. You can't be qualified to speak on this. And so again, I don't think it's unfortunately exclusive to Blue Sky. It happens across the internet. Yeah, I guess at least on threads you can go, boop, now you're talking to no one. Like, yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Well, it's like, it's almost like, you know, the thing that keeps rattling around in my brain is like, it's like a tale of two threads where it's like, there's this side of it that is really fruitful for like fandom communities, for like book, I mean, book drama.

45:01That's the set that's always, you know, like threads will advertise certain posts in your Instagram feed and it's always picking the bonkers one. It's always drama. Yeah, so I see a lot of that. But it is, you know, I think a great place for like TV movies and you know, it's also a space for a black Twitter. And then there's this other side of like, mermaid trauma. Yeah. And like bonkers stuff. Do you, like despite this, do you think it's threads worth it? Yeah, I mean, I think like any social platform, it's what you make of it and what you want to get out of it. You know, I'm still on TikTok begrudgingly, mostly for work, but similarly, like, there are some corners of TikTok where I'm like, y'all are unwell. Yes. And then I come across stuff where I'm like, wow, this is like an incredible artist or, you know, a musician or a styling tip that I never thought of or whatever. Threads functions the same way. I think as long as you know, like why you're there, like are you just there for shits and giggles, then great, you don't take it seriously and when things get weird, you log off.

46:03Are you there just to promote your business? Or, you know, or you there just to connect with other members of a fandom? Like pick the lane that you're in, stay in it. And in my experience, you'll be okay. There are oftentimes some things going viral on Threads and I say, for Jessica, it's not about to comment on that. I don't need the drama. I don't have anything to contribute to the conversation. And again, this goes back to my thing about the loneliness epidemic. I think a lot of people are chiming in because they don't feel heard in their offline lives. And the only place that they're ever able to get attention is on social media. And it doesn't matter if it's negative attention. It's attention. It becomes urgent to talk about ice coffee at an interview. That's what I thought you were going to say when you were talking about a recent one. And you know what? I'm guilty. I'm guilty. For those who don't know, we did a poll about it on Instagram Stories, which was very revealing, but the ice coffee controversy is about a recruiter

47:03who said she would advise people who were interviewing for a job to not bring in an ice coffee with them and people took that personally. I chimed in and I said, the conversation will continue on my monetized podcast. And then what I did was I moved everybody from threads over to the podcast to have the conversation. You know, again, that was a perfect example of part of why I chimed in is because I felt I had an alternative perspective that I hadn't seen offered. And that's the gut check that I'm continuously making when it comes to these hot button topics. Is my perspective adding anything to the conversation? Does this feel in line with like who I am as a content creator and as a cultural commentator? If not, I'm going to pass. If so, I'm going to chime in and I think that I encourage all aspiring creators or just like casual internet users to do the same. Okay, that's the show.

48:06Thank you so much to friend Cheska for joining us. We'll be back on your feed on Wednesday, so definitely subscribe. That way you never miss an episode. Leave us a rating and a review and Apple are Spotify and tell your friends about us. To see all the visuals referenced in today's episode, you can follow us on Instagram, I see why I'm I underscore pod and you can always drop us a note at I see why I'm I at slate.com. I see why I'm I is produced by Vickwit Lee Berry and me, Kate Lindsay. Daisy Rosario is our senior supervising producer. Mia Lobelle is late executive producer of podcasts in Hillary Fry is Slates Editor in Chief. See you online or on threads. Hey there, as promised, we are giving you a sneak peek of today's bonus episode that is normally only for slate plus members. Enjoy.

49:08Hello, slate plus listeners and I I see why my plus friends. We are here with another bonus episode and every bonus episode is special. I am going to say that before I say this, but this is an extra special on because not only is it a book club episode, but this is the first time we have had the author of the book club pick here with us. Welcome to Catherine J's or more in. Hi, thanks for having me. And it is from listening to your book, the story of your life, how social media shapes the way we experience everything that I learned. I had been pronouncing your last name wrong this whole time. You know what, there's multiple acceptable pronunciations. Well, and as we definitely establish this, when you came on the episode of the pod about friction maxing, but we are both Catherine's with a Y and a K. So I knew we were already connected in that way, but I'm really excited to have you. Yeah, so normally Vick and I are a producer. We'll just chat about the books we read. But we've been wanting to for a while start actually having the authors themselves on and be able to sort of just ask you questions

50:10after reading the book. And so first off, I love the book and I can't remember, I've ever told you this, but it's not the same, but it's so for a while I was trying to write a book and it's a little bit adjacent, but you wrote it so much better. Like it might never get a friction on them, not even just saying that. Like you flew to places, you talk to regular people. It's so great for people who are listening who haven't read it yet. Why don't you give us just a quick rundown of what it is you're book is about. So basically it's about how social media influences the way that we tell our own life stories and then how that telling has also come to influence the way that we experience our lives and think about ourselves. So it's really about narrative. It's about kind of like the value systems that are embedded in the narratives. And so I just, I interviewed, it's not about influencers, it's about like everyday folks and I interviewed a bunch of ordinary people that I'd never met that I would have otherwise not met

51:10all over the country just about like what they post and why. It's about like the private process of posting and like what we're doing, like the kind of, the chewy nugget at the center of ourselves that we like, we expose a bit of that when we're posting without meaning to. Yeah, and the through line of it is that human beings are kind of hardwired to tell stories. Like before social media, we were just using different mediums for the same purpose like scrapbooking. But I'm curious how before all that, I assume you notice this because it was showing up in your own life. Like how did you feel impacted by it? The book definitely began like as a series of hunches where I was like people are acting different or they're presenting themselves differently. I'm gonna say like around, like when we started using Instagram, like 2012, I think is when I joined. So I just began to notice that there was this kind

52:12of different way of being and some people were really good at it. And it was like influencer culture had seeped into everyday life. And in not in a way that was like, I was like horrified by, but I definitely wanted to better understand what we were doing and what we were doing it because it did feel, and I could feel it in myself also. Like I felt compelled to present myself in a slightly different way than I had previously. And I just, I couldn't understand what was compelling me. Yeah. So I feel like on ICYMI R through line is just the way the things we're talking about online change, how it feels to be a person or sometimes like change our norms. And I do think in writ large, these changes tend to be written about as kind of negative things.

53:12Just like, oh, it's making us less social or it's making us more isolated. But reading your book and sort of the context that you put all this in, I think because you were taking like this anthropological approach almost, it was the first time I thought about what if we just stepped back and viewed these changes as neutral like as just radical acceptance? Do you see them neutrally? Like, like how, what are your, you've talked about how it changes stories? Do you scribe a value judgment to those changes? Ultimately, I do. I think where I end up with the book is I feel like it's not great, what has happened. That being said, like, I'm really not interested in scolding people or shaming them for what they do because I just think that's, it's like the terrorist win when you do that. I don't know, like it's not. It feels so, first of all,

54:13it's a little bit attention economy, brain itself to kind of have to frame everything and like this is why it's a problem. Like this is how we tell stories today. This is the medium that we are using. We've been using it for 20 years. In the history books, this will be the era when this is what we were doing. Like what do you want to like, you want to like feel real bad about it? Like it just, I don't, that's not interesting to me as like a thought project. And it just, I also think it puts boundaries on how you can talk about it right away. When you're like, this is a problem. And I think that the reason, like when I went and approached people to talk to them about this, I love social media and I also hate it. But like if I'm gonna establish rapport with someone, if I'm gonna like ask them to trust me to like tell me about themselves truthfully, I can't go into it being like, so how are you like being a complete faker and like lying about yourself? Like I can't do that. That's not gonna, like, so given the fact that I needed

55:15people to feel comfortable. And I wanted them to be honest with me. I had to be like, listen, I wanna dignify this act that we're all doing. I want to understand it. So just like explain it to me. And without me being like, wow, like pretty pathetic. Like, I mean, because I don't, I don't think it's pathetic. There is much more to my conversation with Catherine, like the Gen Z insights that didn't make it into the book. And what is the future of social media now that bots are taking over? And you can listen to it in full right now. All you have to do is go to slate.com slash I see why my plus and use the code I see why my 50 for 50% off a year of slate plus and this bonus episode will be waiting for you right in the feed. Looking forward to seeing you there. Hi, Brooke DeVard host of Naked Beauty. Picture this, you walk in from the cold

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