Dave Collum and Dylan Ratigan #1469

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1:26And then, you can take that link and listen to it on all those platforms as well. Add free. So I appreciate all your support. And thank you very much. On this episode of Coffee and a Mike Dave Column joins hosts and creator of Fast Money on CNBC, Dylan Radigan, to talk the AI bubble. Devaluating the dollar, inflating away the debt, markets being propped up, potential third party, and much more. Please subscribe, like, and share this podcast. Ladies and gentlemen, the Mike is on. I welcome Dave Column and Dylan Radigan. Dylan and Dave, thank you so much for doing this. Dylan, I had an opportunity to speak with you. It was not a lot of a couple of weeks. And when I don't have Dave on even a week, people are asking me, where's Dave?

2:28Because he's such a, I think this is your 848th appearance on my show, Dave. So good to see you again. Feels like it. Feels like it. We're going to officially change the name legally to Coffee and a Column with our guest today, Dylan Radigan. So I want to start off, not that I intended for this conversation to bring this up, but because it's such a hot topic, Dave, I feel compelled to ask you if you have anything you want to chime in on what's going on at Cornell. Well, for reasons I can't be totally straightforward on, I can't go there. It includes a host of things, the president's a friend of mine. And I do not need to make his life more complicated right now. I've actually had email exchanges. Every time he gets in one of these masses, Cornell's having trouble staying out of the news. This is a fantastic institution and somehow, somehow we've got a target on our ass. It goes all the way back to the guy saying he was elated about 10, 7, the kid who say didn't want to work for a few.

3:32There's all sorts of things, but this one's dug deep. And so I have to plead the fifth on this one for a host of reasons. And someday I'll explain to the world, but people are asking me on Twitter and I just, they're not getting the answer, it's on me. So for those that now you've got the response from Dave, so you don't need to ask him. You don't need to tag him. He's aware. And maybe that'll be a coffee and a mic exclusive when the time is right for you to speak. Right. Right. It could be your 948th appearance, because I'm sure we'll talk for 68 times between now and now. We have to attend the 10 to the 8th, right? I wanted to, you know, I want to start off this conversation because, you know, Dylan, I really enjoyed that we had an opportunity to speak a few weeks ago. And I thought it'd just be great to have you and Dave on to just chat about markets and where you think things are. And let me, before I turn it over to you, Dylan, today is October the 6th, 2026 at 1109 AM Pacific time that we're talking.

4:37So Dylan, what's at the top of your mind today? You know, I mean, the thing that I really am, I think I think all of us are marveling at from a market perspective is, and it's good you did the timestamp. The stock market had all time high today, a record high. I knew that Dave would get a chuckle out of that. So, you know, I defy anybody to find any person, whether they are the largest institutional investor, the largest longest standing market student, the most accurate market forecaster in history to reconcile the size of the deficit in the United States, the wage rates and pay rates in the United States are relative to the concentration of wealth in the United States. And those are all kind of background factors to the obvious, which is a multi decade low and a multi decade high in government lending rates and interest rates for US debt.

5:40And the difference between having, because again, a five and a quarter of five and a half rate is not the end of the world in the normal sort of adjusted scope of government borrowing. And you lay that interest rate against a $40 trillion underlying number. It's one thing if you're paying 5% on 2 trillion. It's another thing if you're paying more than 5% on 40 trillion. And it's very interesting to sort of try to reconcile what's going on with the bond market with what's going on with the stock market. And now the knee jerk response and the obvious, the only response is. But the euphoria about the valuation expansion explicitly in artificial intelligence is the one thing that is singularly and completely and absolutely carrying the equity markets in total defiance of interest rates. I believe that that's that there's a lot that can be talked about there one obviously the debate is, you know, when SpaceX or anthropic or or open AI talk about a 10,000% expected growth rate in their business.

6:50This is the perspective. I'm not to this that's over. You know, but it's one thing to say it's another thing to have institutional capital believe it or at least institutional capital go along with that I was had a lunch with a bond fund manager friend of mine. Over the weekend that I said, well, how can you not be short the Nasdaq and long the bond right now. And his answer was it's very dangerous to be short the Nasdaq or short the AI names until the gamma. Yeah, that you can that you can be as logical as you want to be, but the fact is as long as the perceived rate of change in the value, it has nothing to do with the value AI creates for human beings. And that means AI is going to cure cancer, AI is going to make robots that clean the oceans, whatever the fantastical fairy tales of AI's human value may be. AI is trading where it's trading because the rate of change in the valuation for the companies continues to expand it's not just at the valuation is there it's at the rate of change in the valuation continues to expand into this fantasy.

7:59And even though as an aside, anybody would say this is crazy, this will never happen, how can you do this. No one is willing to get in the way of it, I mean, I made the mistake on last Friday, because I just couldn't help myself Dave of getting a little bit short the Nasdaq just because I figured how can this. And then Monday and Tuesday could the last two days come and I'm on the wrong side of it along with you know any other fool who dares get in the way of the freight train, but I don't know Dave, how do you reconcile the bond market at multi decade lows in a stock market at all time highs with a complete concentration in the in the AI fairy tale. And I tweeted this morning about the gamma squeeze. I actually blew the tweet I left a sentence fragment out and and for those who are not listening, I actually think the markets and you can tell me if I please tell me if you think I'm wrong because I've been saying this I should be corrected if I'm wrong, but it it feels like after the Iran war kicked in it feels like someone put a prop under the markets and I normally don't go there I normally think now you know that's a silly but.

9:12But if you were trying to handle a big geopolitical event you go we it looked like the markets were rolling over hard to me and then March 31st, I'll send a went into a world record rally and and the gamma squeeze if I were to describe it in a conspiratorial sense is that someone who doesn't care about price. And they're going to make money off it's only doesn't care about price buys buys call options and then the seller to the call options have to hedge by buying the shares. And so that drives up the share price which makes a call options pay which creates this virtue of cycle. And it sounds great except for the minute the minute is I understand it that the call option buyer disappears then all those hedges have to be liquidated. Because now there's no longer call options hedging so now they're just sort of naked exposed to to the markets and and and if these are guys trying to stay neutral then then they got a sell and so the sell off could be truly epic.

10:18Now there's a big bush there which makes it which is why it's so tempting to nibble on short positions even if it's a a fools errand in my case but you know the thing that I kind of dig into with it I'm like okay. Let's just take let's take the space X space X prospectus at its word. They say that 97% of the value of so space X really has a business is like Verizon right it's a big satellite communications business so good business takes a lot of money up up up up up up up the valuation will be obviously a fraction of this if you look at Verizon and how it trades it would trade. It's it's a you know space X is I don't know how many multiples of a Verizon but many and the reason it's not trading like Verizon is because the story has been told that 97% of evaluation in space X at the time that it was sold and it's holding together is entirely based on the promise expectation whatever you want to call it.

11:20Of a 10,000% growth rate that's a real number in the prospectus of enterprise applications of artificial intelligence growth rate or total growth total growth sorry 10,000% total growth between now in 2031. The fact that I had to clarify that is even bizarre right. But okay it's easy to it's easy to brush this off as absurd because it on its face it's absurd what's more interesting to me is what are the enterprise applications that could possibly create that much value and where does that value manifest out the other thing the biggest question with all these AI companies in addition to the valuations is where does the value manifest outside of the equity holders for the AI companies where is the value for so much value. The value for society for the broader economy or is the entire thing a value transfer from society basically replacing all of the job all the legal jobs all the marketing jobs all the engineering jobs you know all doctors you know the implication is that they're you're not going to these people will no longer have jobs five years from now.

12:33And that the reason these AI companies are worth so much so much so that they can overwhelm the bond market overwhelm the fact that every other sector of the stock market with the exception of a little bit of energy for reasons we know because of the war and a little bit of health care because we know demographically what's going on there but health care and energy are determinous compared to the AI performance and everything that's not health care energy and AI is down. But the expectation or the belief is that enough of there'll be enough of a value creation or value transfer I guess I'm interested in your perspective Dave do you view AI as a value creator or a value transfer mechanism understanding the answer is obviously both but the to the degree to which you can differentiate differentiate your opinion. Well for this chapter the money is all going to be made from snurling up the debt right so the debt creating the profits and so the guys are going to take their money and run the data centers are going to build them they're going to sell them the guys are going to take the profit and then they're going to be a toxic waste dump data centers have a life expectancy of a souffle right there it's not like building a railroad it's not even like SpaceX I'm guessing the SpaceX satellite to have a much longer life expectancy to say a data center.

13:48I saw it at the other day that a gigawatt data center has eight billion dollars with a copper in it. That's a staggering number so so I'd like to back it out a little though so that people don't think this is just an AI bubble. Think GLP ones are too expensive on row you can access FDA approved GLP one weight loss treatment at your lowest possible price if you're covered start with Rose free insurance checker just upload your insurance card to see if you're covered for certain GLP one shots. Whether you use insurance or pay cash row helps you find an option that works best for you plus Rose membership lands help you save even more see if you qualify at row.co slash health. Our ex only for side effects of GLP one medications including boxed warning go to row.co slash safety additional row membership be required. Still waiting in line again that's time you'll never get back save time and money with stamps.com over four million businesses have skipped the line with stamps.com join them to save up to 90% off carrier rates from your computer or phone right now print postage for certified mail registered mail and packages in seconds then schedule a pickup right from your home or office for a limited time go to stamps.com and use code podcast for a free welcome gift.

15:01Taxes and fees apply. This is not this is an AI bubble perched on top of a real estate bubble perched on top of a normal equity bubble so before AI got big. The market for profoundly overvalued and I know they the number of shares the narrowing in the market is dropped but but the market's not cheap it didn't even it got cheap ever so briefly in oh nine it got below average valuation and oh nine but didn't get dirt cheap it didn't get 1981 cheap but didn't I didn't get 1933 cheap. It got to and and I had didn't with spit snaggle and he said yeah was cheap for about a month and then and then Jeremy Grantham said the same thing lasted the cheapest on nine so so in sixteen I think the markets had become a bubble again and they've gone straight ups and sixteen straight up and I did the math and the growth in the Nazx and sixteen and that's when we were at Serpent Nurp and everyone was saying we are going to have an epic disaster and I'm going to have a

16:06epic disaster and then ten years of straight up markets and so my base case for a correction with no time dependence because I I shortened the market three times ninety nine and held to oh two oh five and held to oh nine but I also shorted the bond market I I told I told I told Mark Gilbert I was going to short the bond market they both said don't do it and I briefly shorted it and then I was under one I said nope I will never short again someone said catch the eighty percent in the middle so if if it's going down be out if it's going up be in but don't don't try to catch the bottoms and so if you told me you're in a nightclub and then you're going to get a bunch of hot women there but but at some point that evening the nightclub is going to burn down I'm out right I don't care how I'm out of date I can find in that nightclub I'm gone so I've been out of the market for a long time and what saved me as as I happen to catch the energy gold run in the knots so I literally this

17:28will impress you I compounded in the knots for that decade thirteen percent year that that was stunning and that was just trying to hide from inflation I what that was I didn't see a commodity run coming I was just trying to hide from inflation but I missed the teams for the equity market for the most part but but overall I've still beat the S&P but it did and people are saying Dave you've been wrong for so long and I go that's why the house is going to blow up that's like saying to some of San Francisco there's been an earthquake in a hundred years I go yes move move now you know because there's one coming and uh okay they're all moving to Arizona Mike does yeah or we have no water for the water yeah yeah yeah I'm going to sell bottled water down in Arizona at some point so so we've got a real estate but we've been then I just just listed jack gambles if you're not following jack you should follow jack on Twitter he's phenomenal he's called nobody special I think right right is that right Mike

18:29um jack and at zitron and these guys are really hammering away at the story very effectively and he just said the the fed is now fishing around the banking system to to really find out how exposed they are to this AI bubble and and I and I'm saying of course they're exposed to the bubble because they're using money right there it's got to come from somewhere right yeah you know you don't have trillions of dollars flying around in just the shadow banking they're just the middleman they're just the middleman they're just a way to get away from banking regulations so they're lending the seemingly credible people who then lend to non credible people and so yeah I think so my base case my base case is 45 years from now we will if we regress to the historical mean we will not move a penny and I don't know the path for they're going to get there but but right now the case shallor p es 42

19:32historically over 110 years it was 15 and people want to say let's sit at 42 who cares I'm fine with 42 and I go well therefore you're free cash flows to an a half percent yeah one or the other you can't get around it Mike it goes to our conversation when we spoke for the first time a few weeks ago where there's this separation between whatever's going on in the financial world and what's actually going on in the human world of American people and there was a time when the stock market was viewed as a bell weather or an indication of the health of the American economy right and I believe that that is completely disconcert at this point I actually think the stock market is an indication of how effective hyper concentrated wealth is being in exploiting the American economy it's actually a measure of the damage in the American economy not so much the benefit and I actually think the bond market now is the market that reflects an opinion of the American economy and the bond market is saying that the US government is the riskiest alone it has been in two decades if not because I'm

20:40expecting that there's going to be a bond market default I don't think that would ever happen but I do believe that the inflation because the reason there won't be a bond market default is because of the American government and the Fed and everybody else is so deeply comfortable with rampant inflation and and so you don't need the dollar to collapse against the euro or the end you don't need the bricks currency to step in you don't need the government to default for the currency to collapse you just need the price of a house to be completely impossible to buy you need the value of a paycheck to be useless to buy cheddar cheese and you've effectively collapsed the currency without actually displacing it as the reserve or without defaulting on the bond and I feel like that's actually the path that we're on right so curiously gun lock who was now the bond king I'm told um is saying he actually thinks people underestimate the default risk for government that he he says he can imagine being told you know you've got a bond paying a coupon of 5% well guess

21:43what it's now 1% he's out there I'm not there I mean I'm not there either I'm not there either but I say God likes full of shit is also a problem yeah fair enough and so um so the bond market to me is everything exactly and and and and and when the Japanese bond market started to move up and that look engineered to me it seems like the ministry of finance said we can't stay here anymore we we've just got to get out of this but the the Japanese 30 years up to something like 4.5% or something now now people say well 4.5% is normal but this is the part people look if you borrowed it 0.1% your carry trades up 400 fold the cost of that carries 400 fold increase you're broken so why hasn't the Japanese bond market blown up the system I've asked people this I get a standard answer but there's something wrong with the answer yeah I mean I think

22:47that that's the whole thing Michael as it work of we're discontent the it's impossible to explain the numbers right now to to to Dave's point even if you're not even if you don't bring in the need to understand the carry trade and the yen and the Japanese piece of it which is material but just the equity versus the bond market right now with oil being where it is with politics being what they are with inflation being what it is is there's no one there's no rational analyst or investor that can explain it outside of the euphoria of infinite growth in artificial intelligence which is going to replace human beings over the next five years but again to layer those bubbles AI on top of an what I consider to be take away the air it's still an equity bubble it just has blown up completely it's it's gotten eroded it's gotten the top rounded off at x AI on top of private equity on top of private credit on top of real estate right this is an unbelief this is not the dot com

23:53so dot coms were the bubble they were not sustainable that's why inflation is the way out well so here's here's the problem people don't understand first of all the average investor my experiences they don't understand valuation they they they think valuation means price I go no it is a a price relative to something it should track and it will track it and I say to people look what happens so here's a number that I bet you haven't done the math on but it's an amazing number the valuation from 81 to the present which should not trend right they should slop around but there should be no long-term trend unless you want to say the profits will trend so if you want to say valuations are going to trend up then then then then then the free cash for the companies has got to trend out right it's just that's what it's got to work um so you say it's it's it's not supposed to trend from 81 to the present 45 years the valuations have compounded 4% year wow that's a staggering

24:57number and I ask rhetorically what happens when in the next 45 years they compound negative 4% to get back to cheap that's it that's it that's an 8% switch and tailwind aheadwind that's a that that that that means that's why I come up with that 45 years we're in trouble now it could be like the 30s where we give it all back in three years but dip buying is in our DNA now and so I think I want to use a political metaphor the double tap you drop the bomb people rush in to help the victims you drop another bomb I think you have to knock investors on their ass they get up they buy they say oh I'm a long-term buying hold I'm bullish I don't care I'm tough you drop another bomb on them and then they they rush in again and then precinct you get them to the point where they say I'm done I can't do this anymore then you've formed a bottom can I can I ask you both a question if inflation is the way out what does the way out mean like do

26:07you see an end game in this or but let me clarify one thing you can't inflate your way out of over evaluation because the numerator and the denominator both are inflation sensitive so if you're priced to revenues price to earnings price to book they're both tracking inflation so you can inflate the hell out of the system you're still sitting in a in a in a in a in a P.E. of 40 the problem is if inflation has run it up it makes that P.E. of 40 horrific because now you've got an inflation problem and a free cash flow that's negligible that makes it a terrible investment so it makes it a more dangerous investment to hold the high valuation equities and when when I say inflation is the way out what I what I mean Michael is sovereign yeah that basically the everyone that at all the non-asset holding humans which is most of the humans

27:10find themselves in a world where they are ability to afford food gasoline I'm talking about you know grocery bills going from whatever let's say it was 50 bucks for a week of the 10 years ago let's say it's 150 or 200 bucks now go to a thousand bucks for the same groceries and a 10 and a tank a gas goes from 50 bucks to 100 bucks to 500 bucks so that's your currency collapsing without your currency collapsing because the the fixed object is a full tank of gas or the fixed object is a full refrigerator and the number of dollars required to fill a refrigerator or to fill a tank of gas explodes which then actually bales out the asset owners more than bales out the asset owners it enriches the asset owners while placing the non-asset owners in a basically untenable position

28:10so so the fair thing would fair would be brutal but fair the fair thing would be to take the assets that the boomers benefited enormously from and I don't I don't want to do the hey boomer thing I am a boomer I'm tired of people saying hey boomer um you don't like the boomers I'm sorry to no no I know I know I get it but the boomers were the cause of the boom right it was a demographic boom right in 81 the boomers were entering the workforce we were going to have a boom because of demographics so so but but the boomers are also going to be the cause of the bust because the demographic is going to shift the other way but but the the boomers um the the the the average boomer not average excuse me median boomer 70 years old I put in that number um has something like if you include everyone has a hundred and five thousand dollars in their retirement account has

29:12250,000 home equity and has 27,000 in social security they're not in great shape that person's not they don't and I see people retiring it's 63 and I go you could live 35 more years what are you doing right that scares the hell out of me and then I'll post on twitter something like that and they'll say so the fair thing the fair thing would be for the boomers houses to cut in half and the assets to cut by three quarters my base case would be 75% would get us near historic five-inch valuation um so that the next generations can buy assets and housing a suffered fair price I'll put that on a twitter and they'll say hey boomer they'll yell at me and I go you're not listening to what I'm saying I'm trying to tell you

30:15that this is what ought to happen and then just I mean housing is such an interesting thing because housing as a utility as a place to live is one thing we converted really after World War 2 with a 30-year mortgage in the banking structure and all the levitatown stuff long ago that invented the idea of you know leveraged collateralized housing debt finance created a dynamic that started to price real estate as a financial asset that is a bubble to Dave's point as opposed to a utility asset that houses human beings and it's sort of typical of the American economy right now where whether it's the utility of health or the utility of education or the utility of housing that the financialization of those things whether it's via health insurance

31:20whether it's via student lending or whether it's a mortgage finance has created a massive distortion in the pricing of those things in a way that is setting up a tremendous political conflict between the young and the old in the United States which I think we're going to see play out I don't know how it's going to manifest but I believe that we're setting up for a tremendous political stress over the next five years and you compound that with the job losses in AI and you find yourself in a very peculiar situation what do you guys what do you guys envision then for a poll it was some type of if it's some type of showdown I know Dylan you said you know you can't envision exactly what that would be but let's play clue here for a second you know between the the the zoomers and the boomers what what would that look like did you see when the nicks were playing in for the world championship in New York

32:28and did you see the any of the video coverage of the parade for the next team in New York before I switched to well front my APY was probably 0.1 once I switched stitching with a well front cash account earn up to 4.45 percent APY on your cash I can trust well front is taking care of me make your money earn more get started at wellfront.com clients were paid $1,000 for their testimonials creating a conflict of interest how come so 3.55 base APY as of September 18th 2026 is represented at variable and earned on funds swept program banks 0.65 percent new client boost for three months on up to 150 thousand dollars direct deposit $1,000 a month and fund an investing account for a 0.25 percent increase cash account offered by well front brokerage LLC member finra s ipc not a bank and there may be two million zoomers in lower Manhattan that have come from new all protesting this is a protest this was a celebration of the nicks victory oh okay but I'm answering Mike's question I'm saying imagine that that type of a crowd size not to celebrate a a national champ championship for a sports team but to object to

33:34a quality of life that has come entirely at their expense in other words I believe the ability for the zoomers to overtake our cities LA New York Miami Dallas Chicago is real and we are fortunate in in New York back in June that the thing that compelled the zoomers out of the house and into the streets was the joy of a winning sports team but when I watched that video and I saw how many people it was and how how quickly they were able to mobilize from non-existence to complete existence in a day I believe it's possible for that level of activation to form around political objections as opposed to forming around athletic celebrations we're getting foreshadowing in Europe right Europe looks like Europe looks like it's coming apart at the seams to me um Paris grapewritten the the social fabric is tearing pretty badly I think you look at the riots in

34:41the streets and their focus right now on immigrants right but that's a common theme when when times get tough the immigrants get get the focus I still to this day I have no idea why they open the box left the borders open in Europe and our southern border just let everyone just flood in that that makes no sense to me I've got theories that are too dark to talk about but um the the the the attention on the immigrants is sort of a symptom of life life sucking so I the odds and your question Mike I think that mass protests is in our future almost as an inevitable an inevitability not just because of the inaccessibility of housing costs but the inaccessibility of housing combined with food and fuel inflation combined with AI job losses I mean they just released numbers from New York showing entry-level jobs in software

35:41engineering in marketing in communications in legal down 20 percent so I don't I don't know what I'd tell a kid and this comes up all the time if someone said what should I study in college I don't have an answer at all and you say well chemistry seems safe no if you've ever been inside a pharmaceutical chem lab it's robotic it is very robotic and I haven't been inside one in a couple years but um I will get more robotic it don't get there's automated trays and you know it's spectacular technologically but um but there's no you less and less use of people well and then also to add to that I mean Phillip which Phillip Pilkinton who's he's come back on here tomorrow but Dave and I recorded a conversation with him a couple of weeks ago and he's

36:41been a regular with Chris Martensen and Dylan I know you were just on the Chris you know we were talking about the the idea of the inflation and when you've got people that are going to start missing meals or potentially missing meals in this country to your point Dylan with the protesting people are going to get pissed and that's going to give more opportunity for more unrest especially in cities right that's the story that I like to tell about career square and everything that happened in Cairo in 2011 because remember that was an inflation that was an inflation driven event you know that the ability to because people couldn't afford loaves of bread okay and so it's one thing to sit around on Twitter or chat with your friends or do whatever and talk about how the government screwed up or the politics is busted all the things that everybody's pretty much aware of it's another thing when you can't afford to eat and that's what happened in Cairo in 2011

37:43because the first place that we saw when when Obama ran when Bush Obama Bernanke the fed Paulson a Geithner that whole crew ran the money printers in 2008 2009 the first thing that happened was a commodity price surge especially soft commodities for reasons that that Dave just referenced which is people are looking for a place to hide from inflation and they and the first place the first place that moves is in the commodity markets because that's what inflation is right and more expensive egg a more expensive loaf of bread and more expensive tank of gas and that it depends on the construction of your society but the higher the percentage of people in a society that already exist on the edge of not being able to afford to eat which in Egypt there was a huge percentage of the population that was already on the edge of not being able to afford to eat and then when you double the price

38:44of food you create a huge increase in the number of people who cannot afford to eat who then move to the mentality understandably of having absolutely nothing to lose and that's when people leave the house and that's the risk right now for certainly for the United States and really for Europe and much of the world and we have a president who Michael testified that I have not been opposed to I am disappointed in everything he's done but I voted for him and in part the Democrats couldn't put together a ticket to save their souls is the problem you know my colleagues did recognize that though they said look they came in after the most recent election and I said you got to blame your own party you didn't put anyone up and I think was it you that actually made the count it was you you ran for Congress you said you don't get put on the ticket unless the insiders put you on the ticket and that's the problem that really is the most so you should be trying to get

39:48in in fact I was going to ask you is there something concrete here but you should be getting in with you know Thomas Massey and Joe Kent and these guys because there is something forming there and and I have another question about Massey for example you hear that big money came in and knocked him out right I don't see how a guy like Massey could be knocked out with big money I'm wondering see I'm a believer that the 2020 election was rigged for example I think that I think the voting was so flawed but at this way if it wasn't rigged they blew it because it was so easy to do I think the big money is in some sense a cover story so they say we've got Massey out with big money when in fact I think it might have been done at the voting machines I think I was popular he was popular and so they took him out and and Trump took him out and oh my god talk about

40:48turning out a guy he took out his most loyal soldiers and that's my biggest disappointment in the man I don't see how there's political reform in this country inside of these parties no there they're they're they're they're they're grip on their power is incredibly strong and it is not just about money it's about controlling a system of everything from candidate selection to ballot access to control of the communications infrastructure meaning the cable networks and all these other things I mean it's almost like an interesting thing it'll be interesting to put together it's like an engineering challenge okay so the back and look at it like this or like a like a physics challenge even you know you have basically consent of let's say 60% of the United States electorate who is not interested in either of these political parties

41:50the majority of the country you know if you had a one-on-one conversation and said you can pick a Democrat or a Republican or none of the above I believe none of the above would win six out of 10 votes and then two micro Republican two micro Democrat because of the variables of loyalty and all these things when it's 60% versus 40% or 60% versus 20% the physics challenge is really a one of organizational right it's to the advantage of the reason those 220 percent components are so much more powerful is that they are come very much more coherent and well organized whereas the 60% is dispersed among you know millions of little fiefdoms and points of view and it's just I just think it's actually an interesting sort of organizing it's like for an engineer

42:51like how do you and it's one of those things where you can't do it but like you can't tell it's like hurting cats you can't tell it what to do but maybe you can establish some sort of a magnet that causes it to organize and and I don't I mean obviously it's gonna be like well that's the that's you know you need a Ross Perot you need a a dream candidate that everybody can organize around which I think is an impossibility but I but I I just think that it's worth reflecting on the engineering or the physics challenge of the not because I think we fall into the belief that people that are not inside of those 20% fall into the belief that they're that they live in a relative isolation that that oh everybody else is everybody else is that that could do inside of these when the reality is that it's the people that are in isolation that are actually the majority they're just a disorganized group highly and that's where money does matter so my so when

43:52I say I don't think money could take a mass because best you already had the organization I had the position so I don't see how money takes took him out I think that was a cover story potentially but but when you start without an organization money's everything and and therefore you would have you would have to find morally sound money right guys who want you would have to be fragments of money no one's gonna trust that even the most you know benevolent billionaire is not going to be trusted to organize anything that's right that's right that's right that's right that's right but also I think you have a couple of because you had yet really let's let's just look at what I would say the three politicians of the last I don't know 15 20 years that had true believers in the sense of emotional buy-in not just financial buy-in not just lesser of two evils but real emotional buy-in would be Barack Obama Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump all three of those politicians

44:55massive emotional buy-in from millions of people and all three of them betrayed their group Obama his group Bernie betrayed his group and Trump has betrayed his group well Bernie though Bernie was a classic case of the insiders not letting him in though right I mean Bernie Bernie's absolutely should have been the candidate and so I think one in 2016 if he was the candidate I think that's correct my brother and I who are Reagan Republicans um talked about if we would vote for Bernie right he could have pulled he could have pulled votes across the line hard because because he was self-consistent in his whole life I actually think that's my downing guy is not going to be as bad as people say because the first of all he's going to get told what to do right he's not he he someone said it great they said if you really think AOC is telling billionaires what she's doing you're dreaming right so they're going to be given marching orders and

45:59so it depends on a mom Donnie can handle the you know I'm a big Clinton detractor bill but he was brilliant as a politician right so if if there was change needed he could have been the guy if he behaved himself do you think mom Donnie though and talking about mom Donnie don't you think the powerful people mean Dylan you're a New Yorker you've been around you know powerful influential people don't you think they could have stopped that and getting back to the if the elections are legitimate or not if they didn't want him to get in there I mean you know I'm like how do I say this Andrew Cuomo was the candidate of power and money for mayor of New York right he's also catastrophically unappealing at this point in his career I mean if he ever was a feeling it was it was a was a hell of a long time ago and even that in my opinion personally was questionable

47:04but his appeal as a mayoral candidate in New York was like a rotten fruit okay and so the same way that that I think Trump benefited from the fact that Kamala Harris was an incomprehensibly bad candidate or that Trump benefited from the fact Hillary Clinton was an inconspicuely an incomprehensibly bad candidate you know we tend to misinterpret the victories as endorsements of the winner right for the most part the victories are indictments of the loser which is what a lesser of two-eval system is designed to do and then the person who wins pretends that people want like them or wanted them but it's a it's a charade they they put in Biden who I went back and checked my Twitter feed from 19 at my bank I was literally getting pennies using

48:08while front stitching meet Angela a wealthfront cash account client since 2023 I left my job not having something else lined up yet I was pregnant with my second we had to think about how do we make our money work for us every month there's this much that I'm getting an interest and I didn't have to do anything my money is working hard on its own and I can trust while front is taking care of me with the wealthfront cash account earn up to 4.45 percent APY on your cash no account fees no minimums and no strings attached plus free instant withdrawals to eligible accounts get started at wealthfront.com client was paid $1,000 for their testimonial creating a conflict of interest out come very 3.55 base APY as of September 18th 2026 is represented a variable and earned on funds swept to program banks 0.65 percent new client boost for three months on up to $150,000 direct deposit $1,000 a month and fund an investing account for a 0.25 percent increase cash account offered by wealthfront brokerage LLC member finra sipc not a bank instant withdrawal subject to conditions fees and eligibility requirements may apply to certain checking features of the cash account to make sure I remembered correctly and I was I was tweeting about Biden being early dementia now

49:14the problem is that's a metaphor so I had to read my tweets carefully because I could call my brother dementia too right and and I we were spotting Biden's dementia before he won the election in 2020 that the notion that the democratic political system would put him in there again and the in the state he was in is staggering it just I you know maybe Justin Trudeau's that bad I don't know you know but but but but at least Justin Trudeau was presentable in some goofy way um the fact that they inserted Biden is just that got that got me on this long deep dark path trying to figure out what's making the system run and earnest not not not what it appears to be doing but to answer your question Mike I think mom Donnie is the president because momo was so profoundly offensive I also think that from what I've seen of him as a New Yorker

50:20I think he's doing more a better job than than a lot of mayors you know for all the vilification of his identity or his political party or his politics he's really running the city as a city mayor and I agree with that you know and so it's like easy to be like oh this kid he's a democratic socialist he wants to give away free groceries you know the lunch is not free blah blah blah but if you actually look at what he is doing including the way that he handles from which I think is really good because it's good to have the president of the United States be your friend even if you're even if your political supporters hate him and I think that indicates a level of political sophistication on his part that is ahead of a lot of his peers and I think that he left and I so the best mayor of New York in my time there Mike was a touch okay not because he was the best mayor I would also argue Rudy Giuliani well I would say those two were the kind of the best

51:24mayors but the reason they were the best mayors is because if they they they wore it on their they love New York City right and so whatever the I caught just politics where you may like I'm not like I'm this and that that I caught you roll the road the subway every day and love New York City Mike Bloomberg by the way love New York City and was a great mayor and I would say that the difference between people like De Blasio or even the Adams who was this recent mayor those are people who were more using the office of the mayor as a way to aggrandize themselves and do have the experience of power and control and all these things but it wasn't apparent that they were really in love with New York City you could even argue that they had some resentment for New York City and I think that what the biggest thing mom Donnie has going for him is I actually think he loves the city and and I think that that is more has more currency than than people think in terms of being a mayor not just in New York but a mayor of any city that's the city scale version of a nationalist yeah exactly

52:28right so I am a big fan this will sound totally outlandish um unpatriotic even but I'm a fan of Putin and the reason because he's such a good advocate for the Russian people in his own way and it's not because I think he's a sweetheart right we know that's not true but I'd dug deeply into the Ukraine war story and came out of it sort of 99th percentile Putin did not cause that war and and and and and that war's catastrophic and and I've just stunned it um we've really massacred a lot of people 25,000 boys a month right four years so I did a poll you'll like this twitter poll I did a poll and I said let's say Putin finally loses his shit possibly because of far right far left whatever you want to call extremists in his

53:29cabinet who say we've got to respond now because they keep hitting Moscow with drones and stuff like that which is right when we were young could you have fathomed that someone be shooting drones weapons in the Moscow not not imagine we say what what are you thinking that's insanity right so so let's say he loses loses it and he says okay and he starts hurling hurling some munitions into mainstream Europe I said who do you blame this is a fascinating poll and I said who do you blame and I gave the choice Putin Trump uh NATO Europe Europe NATO and a fourth like I remember maybe China I don't know who do you blame what percentage do you think the population blamed Putin what percentage Putin got as the person to blame for the U-frame war for potentially dropping bombs into Europe I'm assuming most of your twitter audiences American based right I would think so and I'm assuming that they said 80% Putin 4.5% no way I think the messages are getting through

54:39now this is Twitter but you know people say well you're Twitter feed so focus I go my Twitter feed us people all the way from people who worry about what the feds doing to people are tracking satanic animals right I mean this this this this Twitter feed is not a homogeneous Twitter feed and and and and the other one was um never mind I won't come up with it fast up but that was a stunning so so it means the message slowly sinks in uh the message of the vaccine being so butchered the the the the people are getting no one is running around saying I'm so proud I got vaccinated even though they're still offering the vaccine it's staggering to me I can guarantee oh I did a poll I did a poll on the vaccine I said I said uh who killed who killed what killed more people in in during the pandemic and I said the that I said Kaldin or a combination of I gave a combination of

55:39the vaccine bad stats where they claim deaths that weren't real and bad health care mm-hmm and this it was a stunningly small percentage I'm like 10% said said COVID kill more people really have woken up to these other subplots that we my point that is organized is that that's right exactly when they can vote it shows up yeah can I ask you both as as we've talked about you know we talked about the financial financial aspect we've talked about the geopolitical conflict I keep going back to when Dave knows is so he's gonna have to suffer through it again but oh my you are nice shirt today I did I would look nice for you guys well I knew you'd have a collar shirt on and Dylan I mean you know he's always dressed for a while do you think this is something bigger than just country versus country and where I'm going with this is you know is this a manufactured crisis what's happening

56:41right now in terms of fuel shortages tying into you know tying into what we talked about when we started this to the geopolitical you mean not real are manufactured manufactured oh I'm sorry it's a real it's real but they are real crisis but it's intentionally created yes okay go ahead so I tend to be hard to bring around on explicit I have skepticism to the organizing ability of the Illuminati so to speak I my tendency is to think that things that the Illuminati would do do get done but they tend to get done through the dynamic exploitation of events as they occur so like let me just give you a context so I like I don't look I don't think there's a war between Ukraine and Russia there's a battlefield that's being fought between Ukraine and Russia but

57:42I believe the actual conflict is between the United States and Russia using Ukrainian boys as the cannon fodder right absolutely it's not I mean in this would be maybe a little bit more controversial but I don't even nest I mean I don't even necessarily I gotta be careful what I say on this one I believe the United States uses Israel as a fixed military base in the Middle East and uses the cover of the religious conflict which is a real thing as a way to so that even if what Israel is doing in the Middle East Israel would not be able to do anything that is doing in the Middle East without the United States so is Israel at war with the Middle East or is the United States using a proxy in the Middle East in it to degrade the Middle East can I reference slightly different on that I think Israel's been able to use us as a proxy and I just wonder whether it's the other way

58:43around I'm saying that's a good idea I know I know I wish I had an answer key once well my brother and I talk about say what event history would you like the answer key right and I did a deep dive into World War II a couple years ago and by reading the books that had that went off the beaten path and there's some staggering things like a FDR's right hand man was a Soviet spy a diehard Soviet spy so if you want to understand World War II you got to recognize that FDR was being fed information by a Soviet spy the whole way and I'll send you all out for Russia was the ally Russia basically won the European theater so so the so I like to ask people who won World War II and they actually we did they go no they didn't Russia Soviet Union one World War II I mean else got screwed of course so we by the way gave ten times as many munitions to the Soviet Union as we gave to Britain during the led these programs people don't know this so this is the well

59:48I lived in Moscow for a really in 2020 and 2021 the last time I was in Moscow was Christmas 2021 two months before the war started and I don't know another group of people in the world that have more in common with Americans culturally creatively scientifically than Russians and we we just don't we don't get that message what I like to say like like they're war first when I first arrived in Moscow I was expecting gray depressive right right right Soviet Soviet style crap right and then I'm riding in the taxi from the airport into the city and it's spectacular more more lights than Paris more parks than New Yorkers and Francisco were wrong it it was it didn't it didn't compute and that was that that was the first moment where I really was felt that I was a victim of American propaganda not the Putin is not murderous and disastrous

1:00:54and adversarial right but as a country and as a culture and as a people it was it's a it's a beautiful place so so in the Iran war same story I encourage people to go to YouTube and search streets of Tehran videos yeah and you look at this and first of all you see incredibly westernized looking people you see phenomenal food on the street right you're going oh my god I would like oh boy boy I'd like to eat some of that and and you see you see headgharb that tells you you're in Iran but the faces are not covered the women are not don't look oppressed I'm sure there's some I did you know I don't want to get emails on this one but but but they have a 98% literacy rate this is who we're bombing yeah no Tehran is a spectacular city right beautiful skiing an hour and a half away feel talk about living in San Francisco and going

1:01:56out to Tahoe well living in Tehran and going out to the mountain is a normal thing you know but I this is the critical horror of the propaganda in general is that you as a dehumanization is the first step in allowing the use of weapons to kill civilians and by the way you know what I have you know I have some friends of mine why'd you live in Moscow by the way I gotta ask I went for business reasons and I stayed for personal reasons I ended up in a in a personal relationship and as a with a with a with a a Russian family so years ago this might not be an important event but I sense it was years ago when you were on CMBC you went into a rant and I don't know if this is this is a key moment or if I'm just just adding importance to it but

1:02:57you went into a rant what I noticed in the rant is first of all you were starting to show real anger yeah and then the people around the table I sensed some were starting to intervene occasionally and then realized no let them go and you just went on like a five minute tie rate that do you remember that is that okay I thought I was an important moment for you yeah how much longer did you work on I've financed before you I left maybe six or nine months I basically after that I informed management that I had my cond that happened in August of 2011 so I wasn't dreaming that I was picking up an important moment here and my contract was due to expire in June of 2012 and basically after that expression of opinion with genuine anger and emotion I informed management that I

1:04:00that I had no intention of renewing my contract if they wanted to let me go now they could but whatever happens I'm done in June so I got to know Andy Hughes are pretty well after QE even to the point where I he invited me down to listen to him in a month debate on the merits of QE and I thought oh that's nice I went down there and I stayed in this condo and you were describing to Ron and stuff I went to Columbia for three years so and that was back in the 70s and so so so I was stunned when I stated this condo in in Harlem and it was a multi-million dollar condo and I'm sitting in a Burger King or something and I'm tweeting you know back when I was in grad school my life expected to it would be five minutes yeah you know and it was just spectacular and so the image had changed markedly but he now sells women's clothing

1:05:03he just the the I'm leaving a disgust crowd is a non-truvial number of people and someone else someone else did exactly the same thing I'm trying to remember what it was okay and then he meant yeah so you you you reach a point where you sort of it's kind of your soul or your your job it's like you're wasting your you only have one life to live and if the only reason you're the only reason to keep a job like the one that I had is because it pays well and you know and you have a it creates a certain lifestyle but the cost of preserving that lifestyle at the expense of my soul was was untenable so I'm not even religious like find myself using terms like soul good and evil much more than I used to and I'm trying to figure out if I'm going to have some moment I was saying I could be preso I think we're in a spirit I think we're in a moment of a spiritual crisis even if it's not formal religion it's a spiritual moment well that's that's that's where I was going when I when I asked that question a few minutes ago because you know Dylan to your point

1:06:07I don't disagree with you from a standpoint if I if I understood we use how you explained it like they're not organized that well to be able to like carry out a crisis like this but then I look back at 2020 and that to me was a manufacturer crisis so is this the next step yeah see I tend to believe they can pull it off more than I realized yeah and you don't have to keep the secret either you just have to control the media right even yeah and even if with once you have absolute control and with AI and the flock cameras and all the all the variables you know and the lockdown and the ability to subordinate people to power is the highest it has ever been both by because of the concentration of that power and maybe to your I think both of you are probably a little further along than I am on the ability of the extreme power to organize but also the tools that allows extreme power to implement their agenda is also the highest it's

1:07:11ever been well then to throw in there you know because I'm hearing the word martial law a lot right now I don't know if you guys are but the idea that they're the potential for martial law and I keep pointing out to people you got to remember in 2020 they basically look at the action and I'm a credit our mutual friend Matt Smith for pointing some of these things out not the words they declared martial law without ever you know not a lot yeah the country shut down and they didn't need to send you know military out they just use the people to snitch and comply what they really tapped into by the way where the egos and the little Napoleonic complexes of more local politicians and so that so that all of a sudden the mayor of some town could could finally wield this mighty sword and and and ban going out on the beach and stuff like that and so they actually organize the the the the it's got the sorrowous level politicians to uh to do it well besides all that though the

1:08:18the messaging was carried out you know uh internationally forget about the little power that the mayors had I mean I still believe the toilet paper was a government you know that was intended to scare a small small uh number of people and it worked so they scare they scare people enough and that's why I think I mean I I feel like people will comply again it wouldn't be the same scenario but that's to me every time I think of this war now I don't look I don't think of it as country to country because globally in 2020 they carried out their messaging and it was very in my in my view was very effective and and I do agree with your assessment that it is not a bit it's a transnational force and and pure evil Dylan to to your point pure evil malice pure how how much you've done this since the dawn of time if you read history in some sense what you're seeing is we're returning to what we thought we had gotten past right so so for example you know when

1:09:24the Carthaginians were knocked off the I think it was I think it was the Greeks who took them out I'm trying to remember um but they realize that if we don't wipe them out they're going to come back so that's what produced a complete and utter annihilation of Carthage and the problem is is when you end up in a war like that um that's a logical conclusion to draw you kind of naturally find yourself looking at that I kill them or they go I listen to Darryl Cooper's Meal Eye Massacre series you ever why listen Darryl Cooper staggering staggeringly entertaining historical treatises he talked about the Meal Eye Massacre which I had not in any way grasped but he he talked about the peer pressures of the lead to the carnage at Meal Eye and uh and it's just it becomes groupthink I guess is another way of putting it well and to take this I know we're

1:10:25getting to do an ER8 for another minute or two I am Dave you okay down front no calls uh and in this time around though they'll just remove the ability for you to get gas I mean I've told the story now several times my plan is to move back to Ohio after the first of the year will I be able to get gas or how expensive will be for me to drive to the other side of the country by then will you be able to fly that's why I think this is going so I don't think who wants to chime in on that I mean I guess let's assume that's where it's going and let's assume that it whether it's explicitly organized or implicitly organized to what end to prevent by Gen Z protests like what's the value of making it impossible for you to drive to Ohio to that how does that help how does it help that the the super elite if they make it so that might can't drive to Ohio

1:11:29keep people keep people contained in certain areas restrict movement so 2020 to the end to the next level is protecting their security basically from the mobility of the masses would be the motive yes right right let them eat cake um that's history right you don't yeah you know what's like famous quote you know if you don't understand history you'll repeat it and someone someone said if if the most amazing lesson of history is how little we learn from history and so we're repeating the mistakes of of the past it's I was going to drag us into the how did we get here in terms of the third grade bubble in a ridiculously short period of time right there's supposed to be generational and they're not I mean it's it's it's called the boomers the boomers have three bubbles

1:12:31under their belt and again I don't blame the boomers I think that's the boomers are just a demography um but three gigantic bubbles and I was a more now right I I this I call this the complacency bubble because now I remember in 98 99 people were saying we're in trouble market-wise we're in trouble but it was a believable story right it sold well just like the roaring 20s was a phenomenally believable story not recognizing it was a credit bubble in Japan remember you know in Japan we are sending uh management teams to Japan to figure out how they were running their economy so well ignoring the fact it was just a big credit bubble and and then even the housing bubble which you could see a mile away I actually posted this I think I tagged you on it um I wrote about the subprime crisis in on May 6th 2002 now it wasn't a analysis I was doing I was just reading smart

1:13:32people saying we've got a problem brewing here and you know general electric so in that right up which I said to Rick Sherlin so it's an email to Rick Sherlin at Goldman um yes he says what has you so jumpy and I laid it like five pages out and I said the banks are gonna collapse because of the subprime crisis this is no two what's staggering to me is how long it takes the system they talk about the efficient market theory and I go there's nothing efficient about these markets there's nothing efficient right that we so this bubble to me they call it the everything bubble which I understand but I and stand I tagged it the complacency bubble because we can all see it but no one wants to stop dancing and say say a city group right no one no one wants to get out of the game and that's where I go look just show me a safe asset I'm there right I'm I'm there I don't need to make money I I just the winners are gonna be the guys who don't get crushed

1:14:34that's not going to be just six back because they're their 401k's or underfunded and counting heavily on maybe there's a poll done last year where they asked retail investors what do you expect to return going forward inflation adjusted 11.4 percent I mean he got to be kidding me and then they asked the pros and the pros said they said the pros were much more moderated they said 8.5 from the highest valuations ever potentially and I there's there's a delusion but but this bubble is now visible we all see it it's mad as stable it's gonna go gonna go ugly you know I mean it's what it is I you know the number of times that I have been

1:15:37make correct in my opinion about something but wrong in my timing is more than I can count and so I think that the that the the vulnerability for all of us assessing all of us to are consuming a lot of this information and synthesizing this information into various credible or highly credible points of view is to think that because you've conducted this analysis or because I've conducted this analysis that it's gonna happen and you know it's one of those things where you know the British great Britain lost everything in 19 great great Britain's the only country that won a war and lost its empire in the in the same war and but great Britain didn't lose its reserve currency status and for 40 years after that war

1:16:39but you could argue that the British pound should have collapsed in 1950 when they couldn't hold Suez Canal right when it was clear that Britain won the war and lost the empire why did the currency last until the 1980s and to Dave's point human nature behavior economics and human nature's desire to perpetuate the illusion is a profoundly powerful force and is vastly more powerful than any body of intellectual analysis whether it's from the smartest people person in the world or not and so I think that that should be both concerning and also comforting because I think the chances that you can pay for gas and you can fly are probably going to be longer than you I think that you're you identify the correct risk but that you'd be shocked how long the game can continue and what we may just get is a conventional

1:17:40democratic party victory in the midterms most likely we will they'll do absolutely nothing other than vilified Donald Trump who's deserving of vilification but it doesn't help anybody and it doesn't help anybody in America to prance around talking by why Donald Trump's a bad president and you know 2028 I think becomes super duper super interesting and my hope is that the 60 percent can get get their act together a little bit such that there's either real insurgents inside of the democratic and republican primary and that there may be is enough organization for a third party to be viable in a way that hasn't happened since frost pro but a third party can't head off the pain right this is not a solution this is more of a consequence we're we're too far out over our skis

1:18:42I mean the thing is going to come down and when houses go down by 50 or 70 percent in value right which is kind of the big banana and this whole thing for the most human beings that's that's going to be a both a huge benefit to the young and a catastrophe for everybody else not the least of which is the banks I have a theory but it's based on a hunch and I can't I can't come up with a model that that firms it up and that is the belief they talk about the well transfer from the boomers to the next generation parenthetically someone the other day made reference to how the malinvestment will go elsewhere and here that's how what malinvestment does it goes away right it goes away it's destroyed wealth that doesn't go anywhere but but I have this hunch that you can't transfer it boomer wealth which have already made the cases nowhere near as

1:19:47much as people think people think that but we're all just rolling and money and I I've done really well for myself so I'm okay criticize me but but the median boomers not in great shape and but let's let's assume the boomers have a bunch of money I don't think you can transfer that to the next generation I don't think it's even possible to transfer it without repricing it but I don't have a good working model to explain that hunch you know what I mean yeah I just feel like you can't there's no way it's going to go from A to B and not not get directly placed eventually yeah re-value I would just argue that re-evaluation will be played out in inflation right then the that the one place where the wiggle room is being tolerated because it has no resistance like the bond market has there's no defense against inflation

1:20:49Trump went out the other day and said that we can solve this whole debt problem with inflation he made some statement about how we can bring the debt down to 30% of GDP and I'm going if you're willing to forfeit 90% of the people it works but he's got to know better than that right I mean that I'm just the biggest bullshit artist Biden was a liar Trump's a bullshit artist that's how I kind of differentiate the two he's a guy who caught a fish this big you know but to say that I mean that that will destroy society come even it comes back to is this whole thing being manufactured and I just can't get that out of my head with with with this is it possible we'll call the elites I was on in a zoom group and one of the guys was an NSA analyst I later found out he was a famous one he actually was the Pentagon

1:21:53expert on the Middle East which would be a pretty relevant job there but one time someone asked him about the vaccine we're talking about the vaccine and he said I don't like to name names because because then you think you understand so if I say Bill Gates created the vaccine then you think you understand and you say you know what's for dinner and I elaborated that idea to a much bigger much bigger notion that says never draw conclusion that causes you to stop thinking right don't let your conclusion button down you're thinking so that's why for example you don't hear me use the uniparty model because it's too it's too clean and easy so I try to understand it the inflation deflation debate strikes me as an insane debate because the economy is like the weather and if I said explain the weather and you get to use one of two words how well would that go

1:22:55and a great example is the Vi-Mar inflation so the Vi-Mar inflation obviously is a brilliant case of inflation destroying society but at the same time that the currencies were zero it is said that you can buy a house for an answer to a goal because it was so precious so that then becomes a question was that an hyper inflation or a hyper deflation depends on the other you're about the currency not trying that's right and inflation itself you can't describe something as complex as inflation using just a word there's so many flavors and so many described somebody who can eat right right was it who wasn't that what's a guy's name it gives a P might that we did a three way we fill fill fill fill fill fill fill me uh I think he was on a said that it's most dangerous now when people are starving but when they're hungry right there's missing meals especially especially like the snap accounts the snap like less less money on the

1:23:57snap accounts and guys I enjoyed this still and where could people find you uh on my sub stack Dylan Radigan dot sub stack dot com uh is where I'm the most active right now publishing essays pretty much every day Dave I'm suffering a brighter scram and as you know you find me under my desk and you'll find me at uh David B. Colum on Twitter and I don't even know if I'm going to write a year in review because I'm I'm having trouble getting into gear on it I'm suffering it severe writers ramp so we'll see we have to do this again guys I appreciate it for those that are watching you know like on youtube rumble like share subscribe and then I put all these conversations up early on both on youtube patreon sub stack at free uh and early so uh people want to support what I'm doing uh please consider it and uh we have to do this again guys so I thank you

1:25:03thanks for inviting me back yeah me too my truck