Episode 138- Failure

0:00Welcome to an incomplete guide to personal growth. We invite you to take a breath and take a listen to our podcasts that explore the wonder, humor, challenges and sometimes those sub-inflicted wounds on the journey of personal growth. Our weekly podcast conversations include stories, resources and tools that you can incorporate into your daily life. We're the mother daughter duo of Sydney and Kelly. Hi mom. Hi Sydney. How are you? I'm doing well. I'm doing well. I'm a sore from pickleball because I hadn't played in a little bit and I'm getting back at it. I'm sore.

1:00I'm way. Oh, like actual workouts. Yeah. Sorry I'm judging. I heard your legs got to work out standing in the post office line. They did. You are correct. Oh my gosh. So we moved like over this summer. Right. And I don't maybe like a week after we moved in. I went to the because we had to go to the post office to get the key for our mailbox. It's one of those community. Right. It's pretty common here that I found in Texas honestly. In certain. Yeah. In certain neighborhoods. Yeah. Yep. And so I went there and they're like, okay, well fill out this thing and then we'll make you the copy and we can hold your mail and then come back or they were going to call me. They were going to tell me when it was ready. Okay. I never heard anything. And then the summer goes and like my July was so packed I could not find a time to go to the post office because you just never know how long it's going to take. I hope I didn't realize it. I just didn't.

2:00Oh, it was long. And so then I go it's like a week before or eight years. So probably about two months from my initial. Right. I'd never heard anything from the post office about Mikey. Surprise. Yeah. So then I go to the post office and I don't have to wait too long to talk to somebody because they kind of have like a separate door for it at this one. So go there and I'm like, hey, like I asked a while back for a key and I never really heard anything. So I'm just wondering if now it's like ready. Like if you have and if there's an email back there for us. And let me go. So she goes and looks she's like, hmm, it says it was done. I can't find it. Okay, let me go look. We're early, waited and a while. Why? For them to look? Yes. Did they find it? Nope. So she kept looking. She kept looking and she come back. She's like, I'm looking like she's kind of looking between it. Which I get there. A lot of people look at her. She's looking in between stuff. Good not fine. She's like, let me go talk to my supervisor. Okay. She's like, all right. She comes back and is what we're going to do is near mail carrier. We'll drop

3:04it by her house tomorrow because it's been such an inconvenience. It's like, that's nice. Thank you. But you just need to go and wait in the other main post office line to pay for it. Pay for the key. Yeah, the key. And so I was like, hmm, cool. It's like in line. That one, luckily, that can be longer. Yes. That was about 20 minutes. But some of that is bad. It felt short and compared in comparison. That's a lot of time at the post office. Oh my gosh. Luckily, the person I went to at the register, he was very on camera. He was like, I was trying to explain to him. He's like, oh, let me go ask him. Okay. So he goes back and he's like, okay, it's like, oh, let me call your mail carriers. Okay. So he did. And she's like, do you know about what time you'll be there? Like, you know what, this area. And so very, very nice. He's like, it should be there between 11 and noon. I'm like, that's a good time for him. Like, thank you. And like to know when it did. So she didn't end up not going on my door. She like stuck it in, which was a door, which is fine, because I went by the front door later. I was like, does she put

4:05something? Oh, it's right there. So that was nice. And I just, and so like the result was good. And I opened up our mailbox and it's right. So I guess they said, oh, the key's ready. Then she starts putting it, but she had to redo the key. So that's like a different key than what was there. But she was able to do that there. But it's like, I think because they said to the mail office, she's ready. So then she started putting mail it. And I was like, well, at least my mail didn't get lost either. Because somebody else before me asked for a mail hold, but they only hold your mail for 10 days. Right. They won't hold it forever. Yeah. And she thought that it was forever. She had three months worth of mail that she didn't know where it went. Oh, wow. At least it was in that position. No. But so it was just like, oh, I'm not saying, but now I can get my mail. Yeah. It was a lot. That is. I don't even, I was trying to think I don't even know the last time I went into a post office. Yeah, before then it'd be a long time. Because then come and pick up stuff, you know, you can return stuff for your mail,

5:07pay for it. Yeah. That's true. Interesting. So it was, yeah, that was an experience. That is. And I don't want to do it yet. Oh, thanks so either. So yeah, I'm sure everybody kind of has their own little post office. I guess so. So if you have them, you should join them with us. We'd like to hear it. But at least it wasn't a failure. You got your key. Oh, that was a good segue. That was good segue. Yes. We're talking about fear failure and just failure in general. Yeah. It's kind of a dirty word almost. Oh, you know, you think of failure and it has, you know, it has negative connotations. Of course, what is failure? It is failing to perform a duty or expected action or a negative outcome that follows short of expectations. Yeah. And I, we think about failure. And I think I was thinking about it's like failure. I feel like

6:08can be real or like in real life or like perceived perceived failure. Yeah. Whatever you, you might be you said an expectation. Right. That wasn't. Was it necessary? Even. Yeah. Yeah. I was thinking about and I think of this that my first married and my cooking skills weren't up to what they are now, which is still pretty bad. We fed a lot. But I made these stuffed belt peppers and oh, and you didn't cook the rice all the way through? I didn't cook the rice first and then add it. I just added the rice. And we're like crunching away. Okay. But like a good new husband didn't say. Yeah. It's okay. Gilly. You know, it's off of failure. That was a mild failure. Yeah. I don't read instructions very well. And then there's big failures. But that was a small one. It's my other humorous one.

7:12Yes. It's funny. Yes. Yeah. And there's yeah, there's there. I think a lot of failure is well, not a lot. Some is blatant. Yes. You know, and and truly if you're really trying anything, you're going to fail. Yes. So to speak. If you're practicing basketball, you're going to fail to hit the basket. Right. Yeah. You're going to there's just that is a part of growing. But we it's a it's the part we don't like. Yeah. Um, and that's something. Having started my O T D. Mm hmm. Because I've been said, Dr. O'ach, patient therapy. Yeah. That is something that our teachers have talked about a lot of a they were saying is like, you need to expect to fail at some point. You know, whether like you don't do an intervention correctly or it could be an assignment or anything. It's like, but anything to be a worry about, you know, already is like if you're if you don't fail or you don't slip up, like you're not really trying. Well, yeah. I mean, you're you're learning. So you're if

8:17you already know it and do everything perfectly, even the professionals are going to fall short. Oh, there's not a surgeon who hasn't. Yeah. There's not, you know, I mean, it's just a part of life. Um, you know, and and there's different types of failure. Mm hmm. You know, there's, you want to talk about that? Okay. Um, one is being rejected. Mm hmm. We consider that a failure. I don't know if it is. You know, like you apply to a school you don't get in. We're rejected. Yeah. I fail to get in. Yeah. Um, you know, you make a request that is denied. Yeah. Um, they, it's things. Mm hmm. Right. There's there's things we'll talk later about what we learned from all this wonderful stuff. But, you know, we're something you really wanted. Mm hmm. If you're applying for a mortgage, maybe you're fine. And you, and you fail and you don't get it. You don't get it. Yeah. Right. And it's a temporary setback. And, you know, how do you look,

9:20how do you deal with that then? Mm hmm. Um, moral failure. Moral failure. Okay. Our actions. Yeah. You do look at a man like that. You know, that that sometimes they don't, when they don't align with our values, when we do something, you're like, uh, that's not how you are Kelly. Yeah. You know, you, you don't treat people that way or you don't want to treat people that way. Right. You need to rethink how you phrase that. You need to, you know, so that's, that's a failure. Yeah. I have failed to write a card and thought, you know, I'd like to do that, right? For a listening period. I was like, yes. I like to acknowledge that we went and I do, it's my mind. Mm hmm. And then when I realized it months later, I was like, oh, Kelly, you, you did forget to think. Yeah. And that's small, but it's, but it didn't went up with my value and how I like to respond to things. And, you know, that's, that's a small one. Again, they can get bigger, bigger, but yeah,

10:23so rejection moral failure. You know, what else? This is, this is an interesting paradoxical failure. A failure that is caused by your efforts to avoid failure. Oh, huh. It's often the steps we take to avoid a problem that make the problem more inevitable. Sun. For example, when you study so hard for tests that you stay up during the night and you study, you study, and then you're too tired and your brain's exhausted and you don't, you practice so much at a sport or whatever that you wear yourself out and you're not ready. You can't run the marathon because you ran, you trained too hard or you didn't do the schedule. You did over did. Yes. So trying to avoid failure. Okay. I can kind of pushing too hard. Yeah. And then expectations of others. Which that's the need to be in that, and those are their expectations.

11:23Oh, yeah. Right. Yeah. It's important not to worry about the expectations of others. See, I took it as I expect something from other people and then, but that's on you too. That's on you. That's your expectation. That's not mine. I know. I'm not going to make the perfect cake. Do you expect me to? No. That he don't expect me to. But I mean, you know, you have to define success for yourself and decide. And that can be hard. I think when we measure against, and we've talked about comparisons before, is, oh, I haven't succeeded. They're doing this, and I'm doing this. They're making this much money and I'm making this much money. But are you have what success? How do you measure that? You know, so there's there's those kind of failures. Those are the types of those are the types of failure. And you know, I was thinking along the lines of failure, I remember when you were younger, you take Campiano.

12:28And every recital, everything you just pulled off every time. Every time. And I thought, this can't last forever. You're so mean. No, I mean, no, I thought one of these times. And you were in that job when competition. And you knew that pace backwards and forwards. So well. It was your first big thing and your teacher, they, part of it was your teacher, didn't she was supposed to be there, but then something came up and she know they pulled you early. And so you started before she even got there. So she didn't have a chance to talk to you. Talk to me. Yeah. Talk you and you got in there and you played and you and then that so joblin has a lot of repeated sessions. And so the same things done again. But there are times where it goes. So like section A sounds like this. You go to section B afterward. Well, then you go back to section A. But then that time after section A, you go to section C. And that's the like the road map can be very difficult to keep your head because you're playing

13:30the same thing. But then one little thing is different. And if you miss playing that one little different thing, you're not going to the right. Okay. Your brain is not going to take the right spot and music. And so what happened to me is I got totally messed up on my road. And I still remember that. I can't even remember that. I'll remember you are ninth grade even eight. Eight. Eight. Eight. And you, but the thing is you sat there and you finished that piece. So they knew you knew it. Yes, you did. No, you did. You kept playing. You met and you finished. And you got up. You took your bow and you ran literally, literally ran down the hallway. And one of the judges came running after you. This lady in heels comes running after you. Wait, wait. I'm like crying. Yes. Yeah. Because and and she was like, you, we know you did it. We just can't give you. It was just but I thought, okay, so now you've experienced that. And you had to do that too. You have to.

14:35It was so painful. But but it was like, okay, so what do you learn? No, one thing you learn is you kept finishing. You did not stop. Yeah, yeah, that resilience. And so they knew this girl really knows the piece. And maybe happen to me. Co, was it my senior recital in high school? I started a Bach piece or was that my junior recital in college? One something like that. Both of those recitals I started with a Bach piece. Okay. And that too is kind of something if you don't know your roadmap because you never repeat the same thing. And you mess up one tiny thing. You're going to mess up your script. You're screw up and you got to start. I think it was your senior high school one. Yeah. Because because I remember thinking you started kind of slow. And I thought, oh, what she can do. And then the rest was just perfect. And it was like, I had to kind of do a little start again. Yeah. But and then it was fine. But yeah. But I don't think if I hadn't had that, do you mean even that job on experience? I mean, I don't think I would have known how to recover. And

15:39just keep pushing that failure taught me how right and showed me that you can do it. Yeah. And I think that is the key because you're right. Your your teachers write in that. If you don't try if you don't fail, you're not trying. Yeah. You're you're in your safety zone and you won't step out of it. And I know people like that. And that's what that's what in this program are teachers are trying to it's like you have to step out and like put yourself out there and try something like, you know, yes, be up in class. And even if you're wrong, it doesn't matter. Yeah. Yeah. At that point. And it's and it's sad because we're in quote this cancel culture. And it's like allow people to stumble and fall. And there's that's the way we become better people. No, that's true. Yeah, it really is. So I get hung up a lot on the more the moral failure for myself. I'm sure you know, I get my head a lot and expect a lot for myself. Yes. Because I

16:40I think I have such a high empathy. And then such a high expectation of perfectionism anyway. And so that combo does not do well for disappointing others. But you know, the nobo does not do well for if I hurt somebody else. Because then I'm like, well, I'm a failure. And I need to fix everything right now because I can't let this failure stand. I just don't know what to think because I'm sitting there going, you know, you're going to mess up and it might be on the other person. See how they perceive it. Yeah. You know, maybe their expectations were too high of a situation or or different or whatever. And it's like, you know, you're going to mess up. You're going to mess up. That's what the words I'm sorry for. Yeah. I mean, true. If you mean them. But no, but it, you know, it, an exam and how important is that? Maybe

17:42my, maybe that's not something I, yeah. And then the paradoxical. Yes. I don't, there are only certain situations in my life where I feel like I put myself in that situation where I don't doubt a fear. But then I still have no failing because I didn't, you know, yeah. I think of that because I think of fear of I have that. Yeah. And that I'll go, oh, I don't want, well, I'm trying to think of it exact, but it's like discomfort or something. Yes. Yeah. And when I was in eighth grade, eighth grade. Yeah. We lived in Kansas and that I was supposed to read Little Word, Little White Bird by Carl Sandberg. I was supposed to do the dramatic reading for this competition because I was in speech. And I read it and the teacher said, I kid you know, I said, I'm putting you in the competition. And I was so afraid. Really? That I just didn't show up and I didn't tell

18:46my parents about it. Oh, just me. I didn't show up. And then things like, bad them doing that. I cannot just didn't show up. Isn't that awful? So that I said, what? Knowing you're a type nine, it's so tracks. You know, it was just didn't show up. It was just so overwhelming. And that was a failure because I was good at it. I really was. I bet you've not really was. But I just, I just, I just, you've got my, and then I failed. You still have that thing? Yeah. So yeah, it's, that's a, that's one we can stumble over. Yeah. Oh, I'm too afraid. I'm not going to do it. And then I fail. Or I try to make it so perfect that you failed. You know, and I think the rejection one is that this, I don't think we

19:50touch on it yet. That one can be difficult to I, because if you're not, if you don't feel confident in your skills or what, or just confident in yourself, then yeah, putting yourself out there, to potentially not get what you want or not get what you apply for. You know, it is. I get it. It's not a good feeling when that, when you get the rejection one. No, it, it really, and, but you know, I just think putting yourself out there in and of it. So is the success? That is the success. Yeah, you tried. Yeah. Yeah. Otherwise, you say, well, I just can't. And when you say, can't is my wonderful piano teacher that I never learned anything from it said, can't never could do anything. That's right. So, but yeah. So, so what is for your teachers? A lot. Yeah. This is funny. I left it. This teaches us what works and what doesn't. I mean, but it debt, but it, it truly, because I may try something one way and like washing all the clothes

20:56together to save time and and Paul has a lot of pink shirts when we first got married. I mean, it does. And, and that sounds so basic, but you know, yeah, it then, because we learn what doesn't, what doesn't, it also sparks creativity. It helps us problem solve. That's true. That's true. Well, that didn't go. What's another way we could approach this or I could approach this and deal with this. Yeah. You know, I mean, it's, it's as basic as if you're, you're, you have a boss. And you learn when's the good time to go? That's problem solving. When you go in, and when he walks in in the morning, and you have no read on him, and you blast something, guess what? See, and I think like here in this, it sparks, so we can keep going with the coatings. Yeah, go ahead. But like this fear of failure, I think is so learned. Like, I don't

21:57think it's something we're ever actually innately wanted because, because I mean, I think while I do that, I was little thing, it's like, well, I do that with Charles all the time. I make it, he tries things and I watch him try and it doesn't work. And then it's like, okay, I either know that I can sit back and he can figure it out or I'll help him brainstorm. Okay, what should we do instead? You know, and literally like teaching him that process of, okay, this doesn't work. How do we do? And there's never any, at least I don't put it on. And never ashamed some of that words. Like, no, that just didn't work out this time. You made, okay, one mistake. Let's fix it. Let's fix it. And I think that is one of the things I was really proud that you and Lauren, you're always asked questions. Yes. Yeah. You went to teachers. You went to people. You didn't care. No, I can remember being in all of that really because I was made to feel stupid for questions. And I should already know and talk about things that'll set you up for failure. Oh, I should know

22:58that. So I'm not going to ask and I try my own and it's like, it's not. I mean, that's because we'd ask you and Jack questions all the time. We were never and you weren't. Yeah. Yeah. So I mean, now I will clarify. There's a difference. If I've already told Charles something three or four times and then he asked me again, what's happening? Okay, at that point, I'm going to say you're just not listening. I'm just, I don't want this question anymore. That's funny. But that's different. Yeah. No, you know, the one he's trying stuff, you just let him. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so it's like this failure and like, yeah, I'm like, well, yeah, I literally watched Charles that all the time. And I think we get. And this is what we also even discussed in piano pedagogy. Yeah. Once you get to a certain skill level, you almost forgot how you got there. Oh, yes. You forget all the fundamentals, all the fundamentals. Yeah. Well, how did you learn how to play a scale? Well, you probably failed your fingering and get 20 times until you found the right things. Exactly. And then you learned exactly. And so it's just like you forget the steps you took to get there and how you did mess up

24:02to get to where you are. And so there's no. It's like, so I think that makes sense. We forget all the failures that we did have that were so inconsequential, but taught us so much. That constantly teach. Yeah. And another thing that it helps us, it may make us look at our priorities. I tried really hard to do this and and get somewhere. And that's not really what I want to do anyway. You know, you're doing it because other people are doing it maybe in school or whatever. But it kind of helps you redefine. Is that really maybe you have a different gift? Maybe it's just what I want to do. Or you know, what I kind of that type of thing. And then goals helps us set goals. Revise our approach to things that's kind of like that creativity part, right? And it teaches us if we allow it about ourselves. How resilient Emma. Yeah. And what do I do to get myself back on

25:04track? Yes. Because that's a big thing. Okay, I failed. I hit the wall. Everybody knows it. So how do I come back? Yes. And that's because it's the choice because it's the choice to either keep going try again, whatever find another out or the choice to sit there. Yeah. And to not do anything. All right. And to go, you know what? I'm going a different direction now. This just didn't maybe another door is going to open for me. I'm watching for another. You know, at least recently, I've been so I don't know more aware or just more conscious of trying to instill resilience. Like yes, because I'm taking care of a lot of kids now. Yeah. And I'm just like watching them like, okay, they messed up on this one thing. And then all of a sudden they're crumbling up. Yeah. I'm like, oh, that is not what you do. You seriously pick it up and try again. You look at it. Yeah. And you look at it and you think, okay, should I do something like I just this idea of failing and then

26:08being resilient about it and not letting yourself crumble or whatever. Now, okay, I'll put it some failures or they're big. You know, I'm talking about like, oh, you fell over on your bike. Yeah. Or like, oh, you this color you thought was there isn't there? Your whole world. No, no, we need to problem solve. Yeah. And you know, it's like failure comes with this teaching you of, yeah, what am I going to, what am I capable of? What am I capable of? What do I, you know, and it's okay to go, wow, that's dumb. I kind of feel foolish about it. Now I'm going to, I'm going to get back up and I'm going to try again. I mean, even me today, it depends on the scale. Like if it's a little thing, okay, I'm pretty good about it. Let's do it. Or if it's something like, professionally, I don't do right the first. Okay, I can pick up and do it. And now there are other failures where it's it's still hard for me sometimes to be like, okay, I have the chance to try again. It's like, okay, I need to

27:09that was just, you know, a test or that was something that I can work through on from, like, I think there are certain things that are still hard to pick yourself. Right, right. Yeah. And I think once we accept our failure and go, you know, failure is a part of life, then we have more compassion for ourselves and for others. Yeah. When I, you know, I, I, like I said, we're a cancel culture and we see things and we mark people off. And somehow we even, I don't know, median, I'm, we get mean and we also go, I knew that was going to happen. Yeah. Well, so what? Right. Everybody is that climb so high, you're going to come down. Yeah. It is life. You know, you, it just happens. And so, if we can reach with that compassion, you know, I, I learned so, so much from my time in improv.

28:14Oh, yes. Could you leave there and you have failed? I guarantee there is not a time when you haven't failed. There's a lot of good that happens too, but you're going, wow, if I had done, and it's like, you know what? You leave that at the door. Yes. I mean, it's, especially that, if you're not failing, you haven't even spoken. Right. Yes. And that's the failure too. So it, you just learn and that taught me so much about that. You know, and, and it maybe shows me what I need to work on in myself, the moral failures, you know, the time that I, you know, flipped somebody off in the car. You know, and I, I mean, to me, that is a more, nobody else may see it. Yeah, because it doesn't align with you. But it's like, why are you doing this? Yeah. You know, and so it's, there's those kind of failures that people don't see. But anyway, I just think if we can become compassionate with ourselves,

29:14yeah, leave us, leave them, leave them healthy ways to deal with, with our, what we perceive as failures and some that are truly failures. Yeah. You know, I, I can think of, I can, you know, this is awful, but it just came to my mind. Oh, man. Oh, I speak it. Uh-huh. It was so shortcoming of me. Can't have just gotten divorced from his first wife. And it was at Christmas. And it was a weird Christmas. I was there. He was there. My mom and dad. They were living outside of Austin area at that time. And we were going to go to a movie to just get our minds off stuff. Yeah. And there's a movie called Better Roses. Uh-huh. And it was a movie back to four. But it looked funny. And I thought this was just insisted. And I have no idea what, but he wanted to probably go see a star is some kind of thing. I don't know, but it didn't matter. Yeah. You weren't sensitive.

30:19It was a moral fair. I felt so bad later. I thought, Oh, no, I wonder he didn't want to see this because it really wasn't ugly divorce. It wasn't. Yeah. There wasn't. I don't know what was funny about it now. But it was right. So I was thinking moral failure. And that comes up. So yeah. You know, and those are the ones that we go, okay, you're going to learn. Right. Right. Set yourself aside and be looking more. Um, yeah. I think I think taking the definition of failure for yourself and like and making it more of a learning thing. Because I mean, I, I mean, I'm still working on how I see it. But I'm so on divorce as a failure. I failed. I didn't, uh, I didn't pick up on signals I should have. I didn't see red flags. I should have. I didn't like there, and I don't should. I know, you know, but it's just like to me, it was a failure to not listen to myself. I think I knew way earlier on it was misaligned. Mm-hmm. And I chose to fight

31:25for the for a relationship that wouldn't have worked anyway. And that, but then that comes from the goodness in me. So why is that? Well, you know, so like, where's the, but to me, I see that that I'm to switch. I'm working to switch. It's like, yeah, it's not really just a failure on my part. Yeah, there are things that I could have done better and things I should, I could, I could notice better things I can listen to myself better. But and so taking it as ways like, okay, here are things that I can do. That's what you learned from your quote failure. But can I say that I think the divorce was a success. You had a successful divorce. I can say that much. I like that. Take care. Sorry. But like that's kind of a bigger one. That is huge. That has taken a while for me to get there. So I see it. Yes. And I viewed all of it because going back to the very beginning of that, your value was when I married, that's it. And so you had this value

32:35and then this relationship did not align ended up not aligning with your other values. Yes. Exactly. And other, you know, so it was just one lot of values under one big value. What are my priorities? You know, and then, then you shift those and you go, my priority. Yeah. So that's a big one. And so I think some failures can take time to, oh, you got a process. And that's where you learn. If you don't process your failures, you're not going to learn about yourself. And you're not going to take time to listen. You just go head on one more time and it's going to same things going to happen again and again and again. Exactly. Yes. So I'll comment further about that one. You know what I'm thinking. Okay. So, but nothing to do with this in this ring. So if it's even a minor failure this week, I think we're really asking. We learn from the minor ones, right? And then it helps us deal with the big ones. So, yeah. Okay, with it.

33:36Yeah. Sure. So take a look and evaluate. Yes. And have compassion on yourself. And the next week's episode will be a little more fun. We got a lot of fun stuff coming next week. Yes. That should be good. And hopefully October, at least getting in November, like kind of how we do around the holidays, getting some people to interview. Yeah, we've got some things lined up. And so, yes. But if anybody has suggestions, we're always open. Always open. Yeah. Can you reach out to us on pretty much any social platform? That's right. Yeah. So we look forward to next week when it would take a breath and take a listen. Thank you for listening to this week's episode of an incomplete guide to personal growth. There are many ways you can stay connected. Follow us on Instagram, at an incomplete guide podcast where you can sign up for our email list and get posts that don't deeper into our weekly topics. Make sure to subscribe to our podcast page wherever you

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